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Why Being Smart Won't Get You Laid
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I have a mini-confession to make: I wrote the Tao of Dating books specifically for really smart people. The writing of the books was precipitated by the endemic dating woes on the Harvard campus, as I observed them as an advisor and earlier, indulged in them as a student.
Those kids graduate and pretty much continue to have the same dating woes -- only now with fewer single people around who happen to live in the same building and share meals with them every day. So if they had challenges then, it gets about 1,000 times worse once they're tossed from the warm womb of their alma mater.
From my observations, the following dating challenges seem to be common to most smart people. In fact, the smarter you are, the more clueless you will be, and the more problems you're going to have in your dating life. Once upon a day I used to be pretty smart, and believe me, I had a lock on clueless.
On the one hand, this makes no sense. Smart people can figure stuff out, right? And this stuff is simple!
On the other hand, it makes total sense. For simple things, it takes someone smart to really screw it up. So whether you went (or should have gone) to the likes of Harvard, Yale, Princeton, MIT, Stanford, Columbia, Cornell, Swarthmore, Amherst, Dartmouth, Brown, Oxford, Cambridge, Berkeley, Penn, Caltech, Duke, read on:
1. Smart people spent more time on achievements than on relationships when growing up.
Smart kids usually come from smart families. And smart families are usually achievement-oriented. Bring me home those straight As, son. Get into those top colleges, daughter. Take piano, violin, tennis, swimming and Tibetan throat-singing lessons. Win every award there is in the book. Be 'well-rounded.'
Well, you're a talented little bugger. Of course you should develop those talents. At the same time, there's an opportunity cost associated with achievement. Time spent studying, doing homework, and practicing the violin is time not spent doing other things -- like chasing boys or girls, which turns out is fairly instrumental in making you a well-rounded human.
The upshot of all that achievement is that you get into a top college -- congratulations! -- and then continue doing even more of what you were doing before. Dating is at best another extracurricular, #6 or #7 down the list, somewhere between Model UN and intramural badminton.
I've been co-hosting young alumni events for name-brand schools for long enough to know that these kids come out a little lopsided (which sounds so much better than 'socially awkward', don't you think?). All they need is a little tune-up, or a little dating textbook like The Tao of Dating for Women or Men, to get them going -- plus a little practice.
Of course, as noted above, things only get worse once you graduate. And if you're frustrated with your love life, you just might try to compensate by working harder and achieving even more to fill that void. Left untreated, this condition can go on for decades. I know people in their 40s, 50s, 60s and beyond who still haven't figured out how to create an intimate connection with another human being.
It's because they've been going at it the wrong way. Which brings us to ...
2. Smart people feel that they're entitled to love because of their achievements.
For most of their lives, smart people inhabit a seemingly meritocratic universe: if they work hard, they get good results (or, in the case of really smart folks, even if they don't work hard, they still get good results). Good results mean kudos, strokes, positive reinforcement, respect from peers, love from parents.
So it only makes sense that in the romantic arena, it should work the same way. Right? The more stuff I do, the more accomplishments and awards I have, the more girls (or boys) will like me. Right? Please say I'm right, because I've spent a LOT of time and energy accumulating this mental jewelry, and I'm going to be really bummed if you tell me it's not going to get me laid.
Well, it's not going to get you laid, brother (or sister). It may get you a first date, but it's probably not going to get you a second date. And it certainly won't bring you lasting love and fulfillment.
Here's the thing: your romantic success has nothing to do with your mental jewelry and everything to do with how you make the other person feel. And making someone feel a certain way is a somewhat nonlinear process that requires a different kind of mastery than that of calculus or Shakespeare.
In other words, you need to earn love (or at least lust). Sadly, no mom, dad or professor teaches us about the power of the well-placed compliment (or put-down), giving attention but not too much attention, being caring without being needy. I wrote a whole 280-page book about that, so that's a story for a different day.
3. You don't feel like a fully-realized sexual being, and therefore don't act like one.
At some point in your life, you got pegged as a smart person. From then on, that was your principal identity: The Smart One. Especially if you had a sibling who was better-looking than you, in which case she (or he) was The Pretty One.
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Posted by: dayahka on Mar 5, 2009 10:23 AM
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» I agree
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» RE: title change during move from HuffPo and it's stupid and wrong
Posted by: NYCartist
» Original author is more accurate
Posted by: charlesp210
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Posted by: Crazy H on Mar 5, 2009 10:57 AM
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(You know who you are, I'm not gonna name names and get my post deleted)
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Posted by: truthteller on Mar 5, 2009 11:01 AM
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» RE: If you're smart and care about the planet...
Posted by: ladyoracle
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Mar 5, 2009 8:33 PM
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Posted by: DaBear on Mar 6, 2009 9:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh crap, you mean it's really money the ladies like?
So, new bottom line. If you're an artist, you won't get laid. Well on a fluke maybe but it won't last long.
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Posted by: charles000 on Mar 5, 2009 11:31 AM
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It is true, at least from the limited statistical reference point of my own personal experience.
I was the living breathing specimen uber-nerd as a kid, and now as a purported adult (complete with beard and graying hair), who has spent much of my life immersed in very interesting, often challenging technical projects here and elsewhere in the world, I was just never that particularly interested in the "traditional" domestic family life scenario, and many, if not most of the women I have had some form of relationship with were not thusly inclined either.
I'm not suggesting any sort of value judgement here - far from it. For those who find joy in the long term marriage, family, and raising kids lifestyle, fine, it's a lovely concept and ideal to strive for.
But not everyone is wired this way.
A lot of folks, and this would include myself, simply don't find joy in this particular life plan, and even if forced to by circumstance, attempting to pretend over an extended period of time would almost certainly lead to disaster, as in divorce, kids with a broken home, and so on.
In a modern age when people are allowed many more choices than what so-called traditional times would provide, and especially for women in this context, people are voting with actions and choices.
You can throw around labels and stereotypical caricatures if you wish, in order to propel this topic into some level of authority and relevance - I do understand those journalistic strategies - but what you are really citing is a sort social evolution taking place, with many variables still yet to be defined.
This is one thing I have seen first hand.
Many women are highly educated, intelligent, and quite independent in their world view. They are not desperately looking for a man to ensnare into marriage, and there are many men out there who actually find such women quite engaging to be with, because it fits the reality of the time, circumstance and orientations of both people.
This is not rocket science . . . but it is reality, and perhaps for some, this is a "scary" or difficult concept to grasp or reckon with.
Such is the nature of life in the 21st century.
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» Thank You
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Catch and Release
Posted by: Sunfell
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Posted by: logansafi on Mar 5, 2009 11:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most dumb women simply prefer dumb men and the dumb men almost always simply prefer the dumbest women. It's smart to realize that.
It's also smart to know that even smart women are looking for men that might be a tad bit dumber than themselves. You can simply get your way with them easier.
How about smart men, what are they looking for? They are looking for dumb women as often as not, too, in order to just have sex with them. If not, they might not get any, so perhaps it's smart to be a man looking for a dumber woman... perhaps?
So we can see that smart doesn't earn too many points in the bed rooms out there, though it does help you tread water for the long haul. Too, a smart person can always find a good book to read, men and women included! A dumb man usually has some sex, but never actually reads a book. But they smoke a lot.
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» RE: Most dumb women prefer dumb men and other observations
Posted by: margwa
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Posted by: doorma on Mar 5, 2009 11:59 AM
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Posted by: symcokid on Mar 5, 2009 1:14 PM
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» stupidity, viginity --not quite the answer
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Mar 5, 2009 1:35 PM
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Now to reading!
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Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Mar 5, 2009 1:48 PM
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» RE: After a big fight last month on Valentine's Day weekend, not only am I proud that I chose to put
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» RE: After a big fight last month on Valentine's Day weekend, not only am I proud that I chose to put
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» RE: After a big fight last month on Valentine's Day weekend, not only am I proud that I chose to put
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 5, 2009 2:06 PM
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After sex, what the hell do you talk about? Books or television? Politics or celebrity news? More sex? How do you create a life with someone who constantly needs to be lead around by the hand. Tried it once, drove me nuts. Mental dependency is as bad as emotional dependency.
What isn't discussed in this article is something I have observed for years and it's the same for men and women - in dating, having a high intelligence scares the hell out of a lot of people. I've been turned down by women who say they I intimidate them. Smart women will scare the hell out of many men as well. I'm right brain smart but I bet it works for either side. People feel intimidated by others being outwardly intelligent, especially in a society like ours which devalues intelligence, at least outwardly. If anyone has any other theories on this, please weigh in.
Here's another funny thing I've noticed in my time in online dating: when two smart people meet, they tend to spend a good deal of the initial dates/meetings, throwing down their intellectual markers and sizing the other person up. It's maddening, but in my experience, it almost seems unavoidable and it can be accomplished in very subtle ways in conversation. When a woman starts throwing her cards at me, well, I'm human and I throw my cards back at her ('ah, so we were BOTH on our respective high school quiz show teams - imagine that! Did your school win?'). Generally this continues until both parties are exhausted from the mental gymnastics, call it a draw (or smugly believe they're the superior intellect) and get on to knowing the person in other ways.
Also, I think it is true that the older you get in the dating game, the more intelligence becomes an asset since, generally, it computes to being gainfully employed and personally interesting. In time, the awkwardness of our youth becomes more muted due to life experience and, let's face it, in a general sense, the farther you go into middle age, the more we come to accept both our own and others physical shortcomings.
However, having this problem in your teens and 20s just plain, well, sucks.
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» RE: Dumb is a deal breaker.
Posted by: Smartcookie
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Posted by: wbblack on Mar 5, 2009 2:19 PM
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Mar 5, 2009 2:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a man who is:
Short,
Fat,
Jobless,
Crazy (just a tad),
A noncomformist,
Poor,
Without a car,
Ugly (even beyond my fat shortness),
Smelly,
Shy,
Not willing to date,
Not willing to love,
Self-centered,
A weakling,
Living in a filthy house I do not want to clean,
Living in a city with a high male-to-female ratio,
Not a party animal,
Not willing to take advantage of women,
Not fun-loving,
Gross around the edges,
AND (although I am not a genius) I have better than average intelligence.
Hmmm.. I guess I will now believe my main problem with women is that LAST thing on my list! Works for me!...
;)
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» No problem here
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Let's See
Posted by: jwc1480
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Posted by: IAlady on Mar 5, 2009 3:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
does anyone else find something wrong with this sentence and everything it assumes?
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» Answer: No.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: question
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: question
Posted by: ladyoracle
» RE: question
Posted by: ursusmajora
» RE: question
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Mar 5, 2009 4:24 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I got tons of drinks bought for me, dates, and sex when/if I wanted it during grad school, but not from my peers. I got the attention from average guys in bars or the artists that clever people invite to their parties for the cultural angle and most of all from average guys who thought they were "smart." I dated them because they were interesting and because I was bored. The fact that I was working on an MA. then Ph. D. made them interested, but then I would have to quit talking about my work because it was over their heads and would bore them. That was immensely helpful social training because family and friends also don't really want to hear about your research, they just want to know when you're top in the class or have won something or other. But I really wanted a smart guy all that time. THEY just wouldn't make a move.
Enter internet dating sites. I met my husband, an engineer, on OKCUPID.com. I would add to this article that for the socially awkward men who do have a lot to offer to the world, the internet is a great place to break the ice. And for women who want smart men, it's highly unlikely you'll find one in a bar, and if you do he will talk to you for 4 hours but not buy you drinks or make any move toward seeing you again. Whether he's just not that into you or socially inept might be something only he can answer. Smart men are on the 'net, though.
But also, I do find smart sexy. When my husband talks about problems he's working on and how he's trying to solve them, I start feeling lustful. I guess it wouldn't work if he went on for hours, but a few minutes over dinner of his airing his brilliance brings him closer to getting laid later. Perhaps my sex drive is also smart.
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» RE: As a Ph. D. who looks like Barbie
Posted by: DaBear
» Smart guys dont need to buy girls drinks
Posted by: AWriter
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 5, 2009 5:07 PM
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Posted by: willymack on Mar 5, 2009 5:29 PM
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Posted by: abprosper on Mar 5, 2009 8:47 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real solution is to learn to be your own best friend.
Instead of thinking you "need" a mate just because everyone says you do just as a previous poster said, be happy. Its all that matters.
Though its not exactly commonly said not others and being content in your life is very powerful. . Given how fubar many people in this world are its real armor against suffering, You get to choose instead of want or need and thats an awesome place to come from
This choice may mean a solitary life or a life w/o marriage or much sex. This is not a bad thing at all for some people. And if your sex drive gives you troubles, well there is always masturbation or sublimation
last if you want to ensure your smart DNA is passed on just use a sperm bank. The women and couples likely to select such a a service are smarter than average and you'll have a better chance of spreading smart genes. Its the ultimate in assortive mating
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Posted by: rastaman on Mar 5, 2009 8:59 PM
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all you have to do is show dominance without using polysyllabic words (ooops) but at the same time find something that makes a woman think that you need her (cooking, cleaning, balancing checkbook, whatever it is)
she just YEARNS to be needed and to think that you couldn't possibly live without her once you two would be together. She absolutely craves the idea that she's making a difference in someone's life.
so don't be too independent and don't be needy. be self sufficient enough to exist but not to live without her. be needy enough that she can feel appreciated but not so much that she thinks that you're a momma's boy.
yes men.....it's a thin line we walk...pay attention to those who have mastered it.
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Posted by: lefKoast on Mar 5, 2009 10:06 PM
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To a loner personality type, perhaps one who is "intelligent" and/or
narcissistic, the idea of marital and parental bondage is unthinkable.
Men have sex for immediately biological reasons, not because they want to be patriarchal pillars of virtue or caring husbands.
When a person "loves" you, what does that mean?
The life-long binding contract of marriage is a lie.
Someone will "love" you until a younger/hotter model or a mid-life
crises comes along.
Enjoy your illusion, 'cause it will cost you.
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Posted by: PaulK on Mar 5, 2009 10:44 PM
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Many kids know from first grade that they don't really have brains. No one expects a cure for cancer out of them. They grow up and learn that McJobs make you feel like McDeath at day's end. Only two things bring any satisfaction. One is love, which turns out to be incredibly addictive. The other is substances that enhance love such as booze, pot, coke and meth. Most of these drugs are also physically addictive, and they are gateway drugs to either long or extremely short love affairs.
The people with expectations have their own definition of what is normal. What's wrong with working till three in the morning, or getting up at 5 or 6 to work? It's these other people, the ones with no expectations of life, who study the art and science of love night and day, who are the ultracompetitive freaks out on the dating scene. Every hair is in place, the dance moves are down pat, all of the social mannerisms and clique behavior is cold. Women are bikini waxed and painted, some have had their nose and boob jobs. Considerable sums of money are spent on pairs of shoes. They learn all sorts of handy tricks from chick flicks and from magazines like Cosmo. Meanwhile, the guys practice their lines, strike manly poses, stay cool, wonder how they're going to make their move.
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Posted by: Smartcookie on Mar 5, 2009 11:32 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People skills
Looks
"odd behaviour" (aspergers, schizoid, just weird, etc)
Lots of smart people have eccentricities that the average woman doesn't want to deal with, that has to be faced.
Also a lot of smart guys also tend to be shy/timid, etc, many of them have anxiety, self-esteem problems from highschool/university and basically take longer to grow into themselves then others.
Truth be told a lot of smart guys would be great if someone would give them the resources and take the time to endure their eccentricities and look past their flaws. The fact is most people are extremely superficial in the 'first impressions' department, most people are also immature, so it's not surprising certain guys don't get laid because they simply didn't mature at the same rate as other people or they have deficits they need to overcome.
It's not a badge of honor to get laid a lot, there are some smart guys who simply don't care about getting laid as much as other people do.
Not to mention technology makes it a moot point, sure it's nice to get laid and have a warm body next to you, or be in a relationship with others, but it's also great NOT to have to deal with other peoples bullshit.
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» Fake it
Posted by: dcyalter
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Posted by: margwa on Mar 6, 2009 5:17 AM
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Besides, smart women can get laid. Any woman can get laid! Exceedingly intelligent women are savvy enough to know how to "play the game" to get some anytime, day or night. If you got T and A you can always get some C!
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» RE: I Would Bet this Article Was Written By a Man!!!
Posted by: MobileSucks
» And the answer is...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» The author is listed at the top.
Posted by: abbadon2007
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Posted by: DaBear on Mar 6, 2009 10:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's all about the money in a culture that worships it, values it, and aligns institutions and governance accordingly.
Po' people have a tough time getting laid (unless we go into sex work... but then that would seem to wipe out the whole point wouldn't it?) but an article on that might be off-the-table quick because the owning-class readership would be put off.
Just guessin' of course....
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Posted by: ursusmajora on Mar 6, 2009 12:54 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What is this article doing here?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: arabbit on Mar 6, 2009 6:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You really want to breed with one?
Would you let your daughter breed with one.
Smart people have better justification to be underachievers than anyone. Who in their right mind would contribute to a world run by idiots?
They don't listen anyway.
I don't want to breed no stupid chicks. Where's the challenge?
Acting stupid will get me more booty?
Forget it.
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» RE: abbit
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
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Posted by: wwittman on Mar 6, 2009 10:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Based on WHAT?
Is there any actual evidence that any of this isn't nonsense?
Because the author SAYS so, then "smart people" don't get sex or relationships?
Ridiculous.
And by the way, is there any evidence smart people aren't equally distributed with good looks, physical prowess, charisma, money, talent or any other attractive traits?
no.
This article is utter and complete crap
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» I couldn't get past the amoebas
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: With all "due" respect
Posted by: lib3288
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Mar 10, 2009 6:08 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One, go to the gym. You don't have to turn into some muscle bound hulk, but at least get reasonably fit. Loose the quarter barrel belly hanging off of the front of you and get some arms she can't put her hand all of the way around. Do some sit ups, decent abs go a long way too.
Item two.. have fun and be fun. Women are generally emotionally driven creatures. Since the positive emotion is a lot more attractive than the negative, it is the obvious choice to try to stimulate those emotions.
If you are moping around carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, you are going to end up at home pulling your own carrot. No woman in her right mind wants to breed with a depressed black hole of emotion sitting there like one of those sticky mouse traps waiting to pull her down. There always will be social injustice, release from it for a little while and have fun.
If you are a genuinely fun person to be around, women are very attracted to that. Smile, laugh, and get the people around you doing it too. Respond to challenges with a smile and a laugh and a positive outlook.
That pretty lady down the bar can go home with anyone she chooses. She will go home with the fun guy over the depressed introvert every time. If there ever was a key to getting a second look from a young lady, this is probably it.
Take some dancing lessons. Women like a man that can and will dance. Do it well, and it will distance you from half of the men in the room who won't even get up for fear of looking like Rodney Dangerfield.
The other thing that brings surprising results is basic courtesy. Apparently that is out of fashion with a lot of people. Try please and thank you, treat the waitress well, hold the door for her and enter second, light her smoke, pay her a compliment or three. You will be surprised how well it is received.
As a shy/non-aggressive 5% guy, I figured out pretty fast that I wasn't getting laid as much as I wanted to. I took a part time job bartending and studied the human mating dance. The bartending got me laid a lot in itself, but I also learned why people were successful. It was simple.. Women like a fun and courteous guy. Being smart is just frosting on the cake.
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» RE: 5%er success
Posted by: GEM-592
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Posted by: lib3288 on Mar 10, 2009 7:59 PM
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Posted by: Michael Horan on Mar 11, 2009 7:51 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SMART people will always get laid. By smart I mean sensible, clever, know their way around, have a good understand of what motivates other people--and knows how to manipulate them.
HIGHLY INTELLLIGENT people are a bummer. If you're highly intelligent, you're probably uninterested in small talk. When the sweet neighbor lady asks for help her turning over lawn mower engine, HIs instead deliver a ten-minute dissertation on why we should turn our lawns into gardens. When party talk turns to favorite songs of the 8-0s, HIs talk about "art in the age of mechanical production" and insist on describing Richard Marx in terms of terms of Karl Marx. Etc. HIs enjoy complexity, are aware of the tragic nature of life, and want to talk about the decline of fall (of whatever), usually with an eye towards ameliorating it. Better to be able to talk about "24," lawn care products, and your child's recent successes.
WISE people ... I assume that with wisdom comes less need for getting laid or hitched, a more serendipitious attitude towards both--and, thus, paradoxically, greater chances of achieving both. But I wouldn't know, being one of those HIs who needs to drag Nietzsche into conversations about the PTA bake sale.
michaelhoran
http://www.nosuppertonight.com
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Posted by: Bebekah on Mar 17, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for intelligent men not getting laid, I have to give anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Near the end of my undergraduate college education, I joined a philosophy/theology debate club on campus. One of the leaders of discussion on the message board and guest speakers was an alumnus deemed by many as "the most intelligent person ever to graduate" from our school. We'd had online discussions aplenty through the group and I'd become a regular reader of his blog; so the first time we met in person at a live discussion, I was already intrigued.
It was the only time I've ever slept with someone a) on the first day I met them or first date and b) that I wasn't and never did officially have a romantic relationship with. His intellectualism turned me on, and he propositioned me first, but I fairly easily gave in. He was earning his Masters at the time and is now almost done with his PhD, and we were fuckbuddies for several great months of my life. Oh, and I was definitely not the first woman he'd slept with, either.
I think we smart folks will be all right.
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Posted by: kelly2009 on Mar 24, 2009 11:59 AM
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» Yeah, right.
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing
» All the men for me?
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: dayahka on Mar 5, 2009 10:23 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I agree
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: title change during move from HuffPo and it's stupid and wrong
Posted by: NYCartist
» Original author is more accurate
Posted by: charlesp210
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Posted by: Crazy H on Mar 5, 2009 10:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(You know who you are, I'm not gonna name names and get my post deleted)
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Posted by: truthteller on Mar 5, 2009 11:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: If you're smart and care about the planet...
Posted by: ladyoracle
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Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Mar 5, 2009 8:33 PM
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Posted by: DaBear on Mar 6, 2009 9:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh crap, you mean it's really money the ladies like?
So, new bottom line. If you're an artist, you won't get laid. Well on a fluke maybe but it won't last long.
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Posted by: charles000 on Mar 5, 2009 11:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is true, at least from the limited statistical reference point of my own personal experience.
I was the living breathing specimen uber-nerd as a kid, and now as a purported adult (complete with beard and graying hair), who has spent much of my life immersed in very interesting, often challenging technical projects here and elsewhere in the world, I was just never that particularly interested in the "traditional" domestic family life scenario, and many, if not most of the women I have had some form of relationship with were not thusly inclined either.
I'm not suggesting any sort of value judgement here - far from it. For those who find joy in the long term marriage, family, and raising kids lifestyle, fine, it's a lovely concept and ideal to strive for.
But not everyone is wired this way.
A lot of folks, and this would include myself, simply don't find joy in this particular life plan, and even if forced to by circumstance, attempting to pretend over an extended period of time would almost certainly lead to disaster, as in divorce, kids with a broken home, and so on.
In a modern age when people are allowed many more choices than what so-called traditional times would provide, and especially for women in this context, people are voting with actions and choices.
You can throw around labels and stereotypical caricatures if you wish, in order to propel this topic into some level of authority and relevance - I do understand those journalistic strategies - but what you are really citing is a sort social evolution taking place, with many variables still yet to be defined.
This is one thing I have seen first hand.
Many women are highly educated, intelligent, and quite independent in their world view. They are not desperately looking for a man to ensnare into marriage, and there are many men out there who actually find such women quite engaging to be with, because it fits the reality of the time, circumstance and orientations of both people.
This is not rocket science . . . but it is reality, and perhaps for some, this is a "scary" or difficult concept to grasp or reckon with.
Such is the nature of life in the 21st century.
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» Thank You
Posted by: mcubed
» RE: Catch and Release
Posted by: Sunfell
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Posted by: logansafi on Mar 5, 2009 11:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most dumb women simply prefer dumb men and the dumb men almost always simply prefer the dumbest women. It's smart to realize that.
It's also smart to know that even smart women are looking for men that might be a tad bit dumber than themselves. You can simply get your way with them easier.
How about smart men, what are they looking for? They are looking for dumb women as often as not, too, in order to just have sex with them. If not, they might not get any, so perhaps it's smart to be a man looking for a dumber woman... perhaps?
So we can see that smart doesn't earn too many points in the bed rooms out there, though it does help you tread water for the long haul. Too, a smart person can always find a good book to read, men and women included! A dumb man usually has some sex, but never actually reads a book. But they smoke a lot.
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» RE: Most dumb women prefer dumb men and other observations
Posted by: margwa
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Posted by: doorma on Mar 5, 2009 11:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: symcokid on Mar 5, 2009 1:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» stupidity, viginity --not quite the answer
Posted by: MobileSucks
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Posted by: BlueTigress on Mar 5, 2009 1:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now to reading!
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Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Mar 5, 2009 1:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: After a big fight last month on Valentine's Day weekend, not only am I proud that I chose to put
Posted by: jwc1480
» RE: After a big fight last month on Valentine's Day weekend, not only am I proud that I chose to put
Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: After a big fight last month on Valentine's Day weekend, not only am I proud that I chose to put
Posted by: MLO
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Posted by: kegbot1 on Mar 5, 2009 2:06 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After sex, what the hell do you talk about? Books or television? Politics or celebrity news? More sex? How do you create a life with someone who constantly needs to be lead around by the hand. Tried it once, drove me nuts. Mental dependency is as bad as emotional dependency.
What isn't discussed in this article is something I have observed for years and it's the same for men and women - in dating, having a high intelligence scares the hell out of a lot of people. I've been turned down by women who say they I intimidate them. Smart women will scare the hell out of many men as well. I'm right brain smart but I bet it works for either side. People feel intimidated by others being outwardly intelligent, especially in a society like ours which devalues intelligence, at least outwardly. If anyone has any other theories on this, please weigh in.
Here's another funny thing I've noticed in my time in online dating: when two smart people meet, they tend to spend a good deal of the initial dates/meetings, throwing down their intellectual markers and sizing the other person up. It's maddening, but in my experience, it almost seems unavoidable and it can be accomplished in very subtle ways in conversation. When a woman starts throwing her cards at me, well, I'm human and I throw my cards back at her ('ah, so we were BOTH on our respective high school quiz show teams - imagine that! Did your school win?'). Generally this continues until both parties are exhausted from the mental gymnastics, call it a draw (or smugly believe they're the superior intellect) and get on to knowing the person in other ways.
Also, I think it is true that the older you get in the dating game, the more intelligence becomes an asset since, generally, it computes to being gainfully employed and personally interesting. In time, the awkwardness of our youth becomes more muted due to life experience and, let's face it, in a general sense, the farther you go into middle age, the more we come to accept both our own and others physical shortcomings.
However, having this problem in your teens and 20s just plain, well, sucks.
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» RE: Dumb is a deal breaker.
Posted by: Smartcookie
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Posted by: wbblack on Mar 5, 2009 2:19 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
Posted by: scenery
» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
Posted by: margwa
» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Most smart people don't do well in school
Posted by: wbblack
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Mar 5, 2009 2:41 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a man who is:
Short,
Fat,
Jobless,
Crazy (just a tad),
A noncomformist,
Poor,
Without a car,
Ugly (even beyond my fat shortness),
Smelly,
Shy,
Not willing to date,
Not willing to love,
Self-centered,
A weakling,
Living in a filthy house I do not want to clean,
Living in a city with a high male-to-female ratio,
Not a party animal,
Not willing to take advantage of women,
Not fun-loving,
Gross around the edges,
AND (although I am not a genius) I have better than average intelligence.
Hmmm.. I guess I will now believe my main problem with women is that LAST thing on my list! Works for me!...
;)
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» No problem here
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Let's See
Posted by: jwc1480
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Posted by: IAlady on Mar 5, 2009 3:09 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
does anyone else find something wrong with this sentence and everything it assumes?
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» Answer: No.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: question
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» RE: question
Posted by: ladyoracle
» RE: question
Posted by: ursusmajora
» RE: question
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: ladyoracle on Mar 5, 2009 4:24 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I got tons of drinks bought for me, dates, and sex when/if I wanted it during grad school, but not from my peers. I got the attention from average guys in bars or the artists that clever people invite to their parties for the cultural angle and most of all from average guys who thought they were "smart." I dated them because they were interesting and because I was bored. The fact that I was working on an MA. then Ph. D. made them interested, but then I would have to quit talking about my work because it was over their heads and would bore them. That was immensely helpful social training because family and friends also don't really want to hear about your research, they just want to know when you're top in the class or have won something or other. But I really wanted a smart guy all that time. THEY just wouldn't make a move.
Enter internet dating sites. I met my husband, an engineer, on OKCUPID.com. I would add to this article that for the socially awkward men who do have a lot to offer to the world, the internet is a great place to break the ice. And for women who want smart men, it's highly unlikely you'll find one in a bar, and if you do he will talk to you for 4 hours but not buy you drinks or make any move toward seeing you again. Whether he's just not that into you or socially inept might be something only he can answer. Smart men are on the 'net, though.
But also, I do find smart sexy. When my husband talks about problems he's working on and how he's trying to solve them, I start feeling lustful. I guess it wouldn't work if he went on for hours, but a few minutes over dinner of his airing his brilliance brings him closer to getting laid later. Perhaps my sex drive is also smart.
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» RE: As a Ph. D. who looks like Barbie
Posted by: DaBear
» Smart guys dont need to buy girls drinks
Posted by: AWriter
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 5, 2009 5:07 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on Mar 5, 2009 5:29 PM
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Posted by: abprosper on Mar 5, 2009 8:47 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real solution is to learn to be your own best friend.
Instead of thinking you "need" a mate just because everyone says you do just as a previous poster said, be happy. Its all that matters.
Though its not exactly commonly said not others and being content in your life is very powerful. . Given how fubar many people in this world are its real armor against suffering, You get to choose instead of want or need and thats an awesome place to come from
This choice may mean a solitary life or a life w/o marriage or much sex. This is not a bad thing at all for some people. And if your sex drive gives you troubles, well there is always masturbation or sublimation
last if you want to ensure your smart DNA is passed on just use a sperm bank. The women and couples likely to select such a a service are smarter than average and you'll have a better chance of spreading smart genes. Its the ultimate in assortive mating
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Posted by: rastaman on Mar 5, 2009 8:59 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
all you have to do is show dominance without using polysyllabic words (ooops) but at the same time find something that makes a woman think that you need her (cooking, cleaning, balancing checkbook, whatever it is)
she just YEARNS to be needed and to think that you couldn't possibly live without her once you two would be together. She absolutely craves the idea that she's making a difference in someone's life.
so don't be too independent and don't be needy. be self sufficient enough to exist but not to live without her. be needy enough that she can feel appreciated but not so much that she thinks that you're a momma's boy.
yes men.....it's a thin line we walk...pay attention to those who have mastered it.
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Posted by: lefKoast on Mar 5, 2009 10:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To a loner personality type, perhaps one who is "intelligent" and/or
narcissistic, the idea of marital and parental bondage is unthinkable.
Men have sex for immediately biological reasons, not because they want to be patriarchal pillars of virtue or caring husbands.
When a person "loves" you, what does that mean?
The life-long binding contract of marriage is a lie.
Someone will "love" you until a younger/hotter model or a mid-life
crises comes along.
Enjoy your illusion, 'cause it will cost you.
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Posted by: PaulK on Mar 5, 2009 10:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many kids know from first grade that they don't really have brains. No one expects a cure for cancer out of them. They grow up and learn that McJobs make you feel like McDeath at day's end. Only two things bring any satisfaction. One is love, which turns out to be incredibly addictive. The other is substances that enhance love such as booze, pot, coke and meth. Most of these drugs are also physically addictive, and they are gateway drugs to either long or extremely short love affairs.
The people with expectations have their own definition of what is normal. What's wrong with working till three in the morning, or getting up at 5 or 6 to work? It's these other people, the ones with no expectations of life, who study the art and science of love night and day, who are the ultracompetitive freaks out on the dating scene. Every hair is in place, the dance moves are down pat, all of the social mannerisms and clique behavior is cold. Women are bikini waxed and painted, some have had their nose and boob jobs. Considerable sums of money are spent on pairs of shoes. They learn all sorts of handy tricks from chick flicks and from magazines like Cosmo. Meanwhile, the guys practice their lines, strike manly poses, stay cool, wonder how they're going to make their move.
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Posted by: Smartcookie on Mar 5, 2009 11:32 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People skills
Looks
"odd behaviour" (aspergers, schizoid, just weird, etc)
Lots of smart people have eccentricities that the average woman doesn't want to deal with, that has to be faced.
Also a lot of smart guys also tend to be shy/timid, etc, many of them have anxiety, self-esteem problems from highschool/university and basically take longer to grow into themselves then others.
Truth be told a lot of smart guys would be great if someone would give them the resources and take the time to endure their eccentricities and look past their flaws. The fact is most people are extremely superficial in the 'first impressions' department, most people are also immature, so it's not surprising certain guys don't get laid because they simply didn't mature at the same rate as other people or they have deficits they need to overcome.
It's not a badge of honor to get laid a lot, there are some smart guys who simply don't care about getting laid as much as other people do.
Not to mention technology makes it a moot point, sure it's nice to get laid and have a warm body next to you, or be in a relationship with others, but it's also great NOT to have to deal with other peoples bullshit.
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» Fake it
Posted by: dcyalter
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Posted by: margwa on Mar 6, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Besides, smart women can get laid. Any woman can get laid! Exceedingly intelligent women are savvy enough to know how to "play the game" to get some anytime, day or night. If you got T and A you can always get some C!
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» RE: I Would Bet this Article Was Written By a Man!!!
Posted by: MobileSucks
» And the answer is...
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» The author is listed at the top.
Posted by: abbadon2007
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Posted by: DaBear on Mar 6, 2009 10:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's all about the money in a culture that worships it, values it, and aligns institutions and governance accordingly.
Po' people have a tough time getting laid (unless we go into sex work... but then that would seem to wipe out the whole point wouldn't it?) but an article on that might be off-the-table quick because the owning-class readership would be put off.
Just guessin' of course....
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Posted by: ursusmajora on Mar 6, 2009 12:54 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: What is this article doing here?
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: arabbit on Mar 6, 2009 6:35 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You really want to breed with one?
Would you let your daughter breed with one.
Smart people have better justification to be underachievers than anyone. Who in their right mind would contribute to a world run by idiots?
They don't listen anyway.
I don't want to breed no stupid chicks. Where's the challenge?
Acting stupid will get me more booty?
Forget it.
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» RE: abbit
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
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Posted by: wwittman on Mar 6, 2009 10:23 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Based on WHAT?
Is there any actual evidence that any of this isn't nonsense?
Because the author SAYS so, then "smart people" don't get sex or relationships?
Ridiculous.
And by the way, is there any evidence smart people aren't equally distributed with good looks, physical prowess, charisma, money, talent or any other attractive traits?
no.
This article is utter and complete crap
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» I couldn't get past the amoebas
Posted by: helenahanbasquet
» RE: With all "due" respect
Posted by: lib3288
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Posted by: FreeAmerica on Mar 10, 2009 6:08 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One, go to the gym. You don't have to turn into some muscle bound hulk, but at least get reasonably fit. Loose the quarter barrel belly hanging off of the front of you and get some arms she can't put her hand all of the way around. Do some sit ups, decent abs go a long way too.
Item two.. have fun and be fun. Women are generally emotionally driven creatures. Since the positive emotion is a lot more attractive than the negative, it is the obvious choice to try to stimulate those emotions.
If you are moping around carrying the weight of the world on your shoulders, you are going to end up at home pulling your own carrot. No woman in her right mind wants to breed with a depressed black hole of emotion sitting there like one of those sticky mouse traps waiting to pull her down. There always will be social injustice, release from it for a little while and have fun.
If you are a genuinely fun person to be around, women are very attracted to that. Smile, laugh, and get the people around you doing it too. Respond to challenges with a smile and a laugh and a positive outlook.
That pretty lady down the bar can go home with anyone she chooses. She will go home with the fun guy over the depressed introvert every time. If there ever was a key to getting a second look from a young lady, this is probably it.
Take some dancing lessons. Women like a man that can and will dance. Do it well, and it will distance you from half of the men in the room who won't even get up for fear of looking like Rodney Dangerfield.
The other thing that brings surprising results is basic courtesy. Apparently that is out of fashion with a lot of people. Try please and thank you, treat the waitress well, hold the door for her and enter second, light her smoke, pay her a compliment or three. You will be surprised how well it is received.
As a shy/non-aggressive 5% guy, I figured out pretty fast that I wasn't getting laid as much as I wanted to. I took a part time job bartending and studied the human mating dance. The bartending got me laid a lot in itself, but I also learned why people were successful. It was simple.. Women like a fun and courteous guy. Being smart is just frosting on the cake.
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» RE: 5%er success
Posted by: GEM-592
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Posted by: lib3288 on Mar 10, 2009 7:59 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Michael Horan on Mar 11, 2009 7:51 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SMART people will always get laid. By smart I mean sensible, clever, know their way around, have a good understand of what motivates other people--and knows how to manipulate them.
HIGHLY INTELLLIGENT people are a bummer. If you're highly intelligent, you're probably uninterested in small talk. When the sweet neighbor lady asks for help her turning over lawn mower engine, HIs instead deliver a ten-minute dissertation on why we should turn our lawns into gardens. When party talk turns to favorite songs of the 8-0s, HIs talk about "art in the age of mechanical production" and insist on describing Richard Marx in terms of terms of Karl Marx. Etc. HIs enjoy complexity, are aware of the tragic nature of life, and want to talk about the decline of fall (of whatever), usually with an eye towards ameliorating it. Better to be able to talk about "24," lawn care products, and your child's recent successes.
WISE people ... I assume that with wisdom comes less need for getting laid or hitched, a more serendipitious attitude towards both--and, thus, paradoxically, greater chances of achieving both. But I wouldn't know, being one of those HIs who needs to drag Nietzsche into conversations about the PTA bake sale.
michaelhoran
http://www.nosuppertonight.com
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Posted by: Bebekah on Mar 17, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As for intelligent men not getting laid, I have to give anecdotal evidence to the contrary. Near the end of my undergraduate college education, I joined a philosophy/theology debate club on campus. One of the leaders of discussion on the message board and guest speakers was an alumnus deemed by many as "the most intelligent person ever to graduate" from our school. We'd had online discussions aplenty through the group and I'd become a regular reader of his blog; so the first time we met in person at a live discussion, I was already intrigued.
It was the only time I've ever slept with someone a) on the first day I met them or first date and b) that I wasn't and never did officially have a romantic relationship with. His intellectualism turned me on, and he propositioned me first, but I fairly easily gave in. He was earning his Masters at the time and is now almost done with his PhD, and we were fuckbuddies for several great months of my life. Oh, and I was definitely not the first woman he'd slept with, either.
I think we smart folks will be all right.
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Posted by: kelly2009 on Mar 24, 2009 11:59 AM
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» Yeah, right.
Posted by: Eddie Van Helsing
» All the men for me?
Posted by: messedup
'Reality' Show Lets You Decide If Women Get Abortions?
Sex Addiction: A B.S. Excuse for Not Thinking
Why Do People Want to Have Sex with the 9-Foot Tall Natives in 'Avatar'?




