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Sex and Relationships

Don't Give African-Americans a Pass for Homophobia

By Clay Cane, The Advocate. Posted November 22, 2008.


My great-great-grandmother was born a slave in Virginia. Should I not have the right to marry, just like my grandmother, simply because I am gay?
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The injection of race into the analysis of Proposition 8's passage is extremely disappointing. A battle for equal rights has now turned into an issue of whites versus blacks. It's sad to see the smoke screen of racism when rights are being denied from Americans who pay taxes and have served their country.

In the beginning, I wanted to stay out of this racialized debate on Proposition 8. However, after I read Jasmyne Cannick's opinion piece in the Los Angeles Times, "No-on-8's White Bias," I felt compelled to speak up. Cannick is someone I deeply admire and highly respect, and she is black and gay like me; however, there is another side of this debate from the black gay community.

In her piece she states, "I don't see why the right to marry should be a priority for me or other black people. Gay marriage? Please." Cannick adds, "Some people seem to think that homophobia trumps racism." She explains, "There are still too many inequalities that exist as it relates to my race." Cannick lists important issues in the black community such as dropout rates, poverty, and incarceration.

As a black gay man, incarceration rates are as important to me as gay marriage. Dropout rates are as important to me as the fact that, according to the CDC, 46% of black men who have sex with men are HIV-positive. Poverty is as important to me as the fact that there are 30 states where gays and lesbians can be fired from their job with no protection from their government. As a black gay man who has endured the words "n****r" and "f****t", who lives in this duality of gayness and blackness, I have a vested interest in both inequalities.

Cannick argues that the white gay community "never successfully communicated" to blacks why gay marriage is an important issue. I agree there was a poor strategy on Proposition 8; however, I don't need white people to hold my hand into believing gay marriage is important. Black people are not docile bystanders who require whites to communicate that discrimination is wrong. Just like I don't need outreach from black heterosexuals to know that poverty is important.

No, I do not agree that blacks are at fault for Proposition 8 passing. Still, I challenge the notion that blacks needed more "communication." Many (not necessarily Cannick) who uphold this "communication" argument say, "Only 6.7% of California is black, so blacks had nothing to do with Proposition 8," then say, "Blacks needed more communication!" You can't have it both ways -- either black Californians needed outreach because they were a big enough voting bloc or they didn't.

The black community was not completely ignored. Opponents of Proposition 8 worked with the National Association for the Advancement of Colored People. Sure, maybe that wasn’t enough. Still, California is only 6.7% black. Asians voted at the same rate as whites and, according to the last census, Asians make up 12.4% (nearly double the black population) of the people in California; Asians had just as little "communication" and voted yes on Proposition 8 at 49% -- 20 percentage points less than blacks. Do black folks need extra-special attention for ignorance?


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Amen
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Nov 22, 2008 2:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article nails so many key points on this issue that I lost count half-way through. Everybody of all colors should be required to read it a thousand times.

And remember, if anybody calls you words with asterisks in them, you have a right to slug 'em!

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I am surprised that my above author is surprised at white folks unsprising need to be nudnics.
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 22, 2008 4:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Being called a white folk myself I am not surprised because I am not white. The Injuns think I am a napple and if I stay clean shaven and in the sun all year the whites think I is a redskin.

But, for the third strike I am a gay bi-sexual which means everyone gets a turn dumping on me so what is all this guff about black white green or indigo Proposition 8 targets? In my “none too humble” estimation it is poor folk all through the areas affected by Proposition eight who suffer the greatest ignominy. They are the ones who fell for the idea that one can “legislate” a “natural right” to choose a mate. How some folks can be sold a Brooklyn Bridge of this dimension is beyond my poor capacity to understand.

When the legislation of freedoms becomes the unspoken right of any “State” we are in the wrong country! Has it not already been stipulated that the search for life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are to be held as inalienable rights?

If so who are these aliens to come along with a Proposition eight and demand we vote on an already stipulated issue? At this point it is time to leave the field bringing pitchforks, scythes and hayricks loaded with horse manure for the States Capitol floor!

Arnold, really I thought better of you than this you disappoint me sorely and vex my deeper feelings of fealty to your causes! How dare you allow this pig slop to be entered as a serious act for consideration?

At least 22% of your constituency is gay or knows some family member who is gay. What on earth did you think you were doing? This issue should have been Vetoed at the auditors office!

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Yes, blacks should be ashamed! Anyone who does not see gay people as people should be ashamed.
Posted by: greentime on Nov 22, 2008 5:19 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first time I overheard vile comments from a black person about a gay person it was from a very self righteous Jehovahs Witness. He was a black man. He was using the Bible to gay bash and I was sickened by it. He himself was a very sensitive man, dealing with enormous discrimination in the workplace. There was also much about him to suggest he had shall we say, intimate knowledge of "the gays" he so easily trashed.

Just as the Jehovahs Witnesses have been screeching this hate from thier pulpits, so have the Pentecostals, the Catholics, the Baptists and othere evangelical groups. Just about every Orthodox group from every religion take this stance. The Presbyterians vote over and over not to recognize gays, most other Christian sects do as well.

The same arguments used to keep gays out and down are those very same arguments used to justify slavery, segregation, brutality of all kinds, and to stop the education of blacks, marriage and bi-racial marriage.

The people who perpetrated all that should have been ashamed and as history has proven, were dead wrong. So too should these modern day religious bigots feel ashamed for the hate they preach, teach, and enact in the name of... please tell me, Jesus? God?

How dare you do this in anyone's name.

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» Catholics Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Catholics Posted by: HoboHomo
Curious
Posted by: jmmartin on Nov 22, 2008 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've always thought it strange that black folk do not support gay rights, including marriage. Can't they remember when, in some parts of the U.S., blacks were not permitted to marry whites? Whenever I have confronted a black person about the seeming hypocrisy, they inevitably say something along the lines that "We have dark skin. We can't hide our blackness." But, as in the writer's case, what about black people who are also gay or lesbian?

Don't look now, but some black peoples' homophobia is showing. What makes anti-gay black people think gays can simply "hide" their gayness (i.e. stay closeted)? The black homophobic position suggests at the very least that they've bought into the now-disproved (or very much in doubt) claim of all homophobes (and especially the fundamentalist right): that being gay or lesbian is a matter of nurture, not nature. "Gays choose to be the way they are; they're not 'born that way.'"

Homophobic African-Americans ought to remember an old saying about democracy: so long as one person is not free, we're all slaves.

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» RE: Curious Posted by: Jamesberry
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» I didn't choose the two Posted by: EcoFemme
» RE: I didn't choose the two Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I didn't choose the two Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: I didn't choose the two Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I could care less Posted by: americansheep
» RE: I could care less Posted by: michael1972
» MLK did not march for gay people Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I could care less Posted by: racetoinfinity
» This is an opinon not a fact. Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I could care less Posted by: Xynyx
» Get off the bandwagon Posted by: michael1972
» RE: Get off the bandwagon Posted by: tabanka
» RE: Get off the bandwagon Posted by: michael1972
» RE: Get off the bandwagon Posted by: tabanka
Beyond Straight and Gay Marriage
Posted by: EcoFemme on Nov 22, 2008 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suggest everyone pick up a copy of this book.

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Discrimination is discrimination, no matter by whom
Posted by: solitarysherlockian on Nov 22, 2008 7:21 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact of discrimination by anyone is wrong. Period. The irony when done by one who has faced discrimination, and one would imagine knows what that is like--is just sad and another example of why humanity is not quite an evolved species.

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» Well said, solitarysherlockian Posted by: LeftWright
good but...
Posted by: corgyn on Nov 22, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While blacks do seem to be outwardly a little homophobic, try to find a black atheist. That churches lead the black voice is what's WRONG!!

Until the superstitions and myths and their promoters are NO LONGER the black community leaders, they'll remain mired in a limited vision and truncated destiny.

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» RE: good but... Posted by: AthenaAwakened
I am ashamed of all of us for not getting the point.
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 22, 2008 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If I take a notion to jump into the ocean it ain't no bodys business if I do!

I am gay I am here to stay till you kill my ass for being Fey.
I lived my years with tears and fears and am still here where are my cheers?

I am ashamed that ANY people will allow any Racial horseshit to get between them and the pursuit of happiness.

I am ashamed that I have Legislators who waste time and money telling people how they will live their happiness. Those particular assholes should be tarred featherd and rode out of town on a rail!

I am ashamed of ME for not doing just that in my own community, in fact I think I had better start now before there is no room at the Pogrom!

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A good learning moment
Posted by: TKirwin on Nov 22, 2008 7:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having recently screened "Milk" I was reminded of Prop 6 in '78. That bill was so egregious that our President publicly opposed it. Nonetheless, it took a well organized and well considered plan to stop Homosexual teachers and "anyone who supported them" from being thrown out of all public schools. Tactics were identical as were the dishonesty and fear mongering nature of the rhetoric we heard on Prop 8.

This year it is apparent that challengers to Prop 8 did a poor job of reaching out to the black community to make their case. Rather than damn African Americans, perhaps there is more value in recognizing that the challengers to Prop 8 assumed support and perspectives incorrectly and overlooked key natural allies.

Now would be a good time to re-examine assumptions and take the time to listen to and adjust tactics and rhetoric to embrace those that were overlooked or missed in building alliances.

In 78, Prop 6 challengers knew that putting faces and names on gays humanized the issue and they worked diligently to make sure all voters knew individual gays rather than seeing the prop as about "them."

Rather than getting mad at voters (and possibly alienate them), perhaps energy could be better spent on getting it right this time. Encouraging everyone to watch "Milk" might be a good start.

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Excellent Analysis
Posted by: jmdiaz10 on Nov 22, 2008 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What an excellent analysis of the situation! Civil rights are for everyone, and no one should be treated as less of a citizen. It was sad and painful to see the Black community throw gay people under the bus on Proposition 8. Do they not realize that the most discriminated people on the planet are most likely Black gay people? Do they not see how AIDS is ravaging the Black community, and that more acceptance and understanding of gay people is the key to saving these members of their community? Those within the Black community who voted Yes on Proposition 8 just shot themselves in the foot on this one. I am more saddened than angered by all of this.

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» Nothing Posted by: kepstein7777
» RE: Nothing Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I'm an agnostic sweetie Posted by: tabanka
» RE: I'm an agnostic sweetie Posted by: michael1972
Christianity and racism are the problems, not homophobia
Posted by: nfamous on Nov 22, 2008 9:15 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Black people are homophobic because of the Sodom and Gomorrah story in the Bible. Whites forced Christianity onto blacks as slaves and now that many blacks have fully embraced it now we are saying that blacks are wrong for it? Christianity is nothing but white people's way of controlling poor people and nonwhites, who are usually one in the same.

Black people have never had any real power in this country. When that happens people build up resentment and hopelessness that is sometimes misdirected onto themselves or even other groups. I think gays are just easy prey for many blacks because there is a machismo to being a straight black male. Gay is seen as the opposite of that so it's viewed as a threat to black male sexuality.

I'm not saying it's right. It's not. I'm simply saying that it's a product of what living under this white power system has done to blacks since during and after slavery. It is up to blacks to change but white people started this whole problem with their mythological religion and rankist caste system of white skin privilege.

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» Nice Dodge, nfamous... Posted by: yellow
Excellent article on all counts!
Posted by: emccready on Nov 22, 2008 9:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is sufficient racism and homophobia to go around. I have a Latino friend who is deaf who is gay who is scared to death to let anyone in his neighbourhood or his mother know it...so he lives two lives and cannot even have his friends who are gay come by to see him. He is 60 and I don't expect life to change for him until after his mother has passed on (she is currently 83).

While the gay community should have targeted Blacks and Asian communities and Latin ones too in the more conservative communities here in California, most of the blame has to go to the Mormon Church and the Knights of Columbus as well as Mr. Ahmanson who injected so much money into the campaign to support so many outright lies. Fear mongering and judgmentalism among the so-called Christian community has got to stop. They all should change their names to Pharisees instead - remember the people who were always judging Jesus' good deeds based on what was considered to be the laws of God such as not healing on the sabbath. Jesus wouldn't stand for the Pharisees back then...he wouldn't stand for them today. But then who said Churches have ever tried to live up to the example that Jesus set for this religion which went astray hundreds of years ago?! It is time to tax the churches who feel that they can cross the line to interfer in state affairs which affect more than their own small minded congregations.

I wish all gays of whatever race good luck in dealing with the homophobia which surrounds them still in their daily lives. And I hope and pray the California Supreme Court has the courage to overturn this hateful Proposition based on H8! It will do a lot of good and change a lot more minds in a surprisingly short time.

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Again, the real issue is staring us all right in the face...why not "civil union?"
Posted by: Jasonix on Nov 22, 2008 11:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The obvious answer - the one that the American people voted for overwhelmingly on Nov. 4, in fact, even as they swept Barack Obama into the White House - is for government to give "civil unions," and for "marriage" to be an institution defined by one's religion or one's personal belief system. We've been using the same word - "marriage" - to describe different concepts, confusing them. The real reason why gays want "marriage" rather than "civil unions" even when the legal substance of the two is identical is because they hope that the word "marriage" will finally slam-dunk their full acceptance in society. But you're totally, absolutely wrong. All you'll do is give a new transfusion of life and energy into the moribund religious right, keeping alive a movement that opposes the necessary political and economic changes that we need to make to simply survive. Sorry, but I'm more than willing to throw "gay marriage" under the bus to allow the country to move forward on climate change, fighting poverty, rebuilding our infrastructure, tackling peak oil, etc.

Catholics, Baptists, Mormons, Muslims, Orthodox Jews and the like will never, ever consider you "married," no matter what the government calls you. At most, you'll simply prompt some theologian-linguist conferences to coin a new term for religious marriage that excludes you. The publishers will love you for it, because they'll get to rush out new translations of the Bible with polysyllabic titles (like maybe the 21st Century Today's New International Version, or some such) that use the new term and have footnotes that explain why civil marriage isn't "wedded" or whatever the new term is.

Why revive the religious right and make Americans fight over words at this desperate moment in our nation's history? The easiest thing to do right now is to simply change the word on the government's marriage license to "civil unions" for everybody, and allow people to get into "civil unions" as a property arrangement without any government interest in sexuality (for example, two widowed elderly sisters might opt for a civil union to ensure that they have medical rights and property rights for each other). That way, you can all go down to the Unitarian Church and get "married" if that's what you choose to call it - but whether you, or anyone else, is "married" is purely in the eyes of the beholder.

Meanwhile, the rest of us can get busy dealing with the real threats to human survival and stop being sidetracked by this profoundly silly debate over a mere word.

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No one so far has mentioned.......
Posted by: tap17x on Nov 22, 2008 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
......that blacks seem to be more vulnerable to the lies of Christianity than whites. That, I think, is part of the problem. The Bible does condemn man-on-man sex unambiguously but it also prescribes the death penalty for about 15 other trivial "crimes." It sounds paternalistic but I hope blacks grow out of the Christian superstition.

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» No. Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan
» RE: No. Posted by: HoboHomo
My hairdresser...
Posted by: tap17x on Nov 22, 2008 1:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...for a while was a black gay guy who had one eye pointing off in another direction. From a distance his whole appearance was quite menacing, not because of his expression but his face was just shaped that way. He was gentle, competent in spite of using only one eye, and as nice as he could be. He very proudly showed vacation photos of him and his male lover. I was very touched and realized that some people are not dealt easy hands. It made me understand people better.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» So is Slavery....... Posted by: CatDad
Being GAY is NOT an African American Problem...
Posted by: joeocho88 on Nov 22, 2008 4:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still don't understand what is the big deal about GAY!

Gays are human beings like everybody else.

There are Gays all over the world, of all colors, religions,ethnicities, disabilities and they tend to be rather UNIVERSAL.

There have been GAYS making significant contributions throughout history whether you LIKE it or NOT. Their decisions sometimes have changed the course of HISTORY!They have made significant and important contributions to ALL aspects of the arts and sciences and the only thing they have in common is that they are attracted to and sometimes love persons of the same gender. So what!

It doesn't put any money in my pocket and it probably doesn't affect your personal finances either.

What it DOES do is to get us ordinary people FIGHTING each other UNNECESSARILY!

I can't understand why people have to scapegoat ANY other people.

If Gays want to get married, WHAT IS THE BIG DEAL? Straight people have had the HELL of marriage so ALL Gay people should have the right to it as well!

THEY'LL BE SORRY!

Marriage originally was designed as a legal contract whereby men and women could have a secure place to have children and society wouldn't have to worry about either the male or female running out on their family responsibilities.

CHECK OUT THE DIVORCE RATE AND TELL ME HOW WELL THAT CONCEPT WORKS TODAY!

This archaic concept of MARRIAGE no longer applies to men and women only. IT IS A BUSINESS PROPOSITION, A CONTRACTUAL RELATIONSHIP! I think Gay people can sign a contract just like Straight people can.

I have come to the conclusion that Religions, while comforting and providing explanations of life's so-called mysteries, are nothing more than local social clubs and while they have their own rites --including marriage -- WHY SHOULD THEY INFLICT THEIR VALUES ON THE REST OF US? Isn't THAT against the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution?

Why Gays in the African American community are different from any other Gays anywhere else is a mystery to me.

GAY people are discriminated against no matter where they are, even by other Gay people sometimes.

Now go back and substitute any group name for Gay in the sentence immediately preceding.

The ease with which you can substitute another group shows you that GAYS are just like any other group so WHY the prejudice? IT IS JUST A WASTE OF TIME AND DISTRACTS FROM THE REAL AGENDA and that is to get all of us ordinary people fighting each other while the Elite and their bought and paid for servants in Washington raid our Nation for their own personal source of liquidity capital.

This Gay v. Straight conflict is a mere diversionary tactic from the REAL agenda.

WE ALL NEED TO GET ALONG AND SEE WHAT IS HAPPENING IN THIS COUNTRY!

I am not Gay. But I do believe in EQUAL RIGHTS and EQUAL OPPORTUNITY for ALL people.

I BELIEVE THAT YOU SHOULD HAVE THE EQUAL OPPORTUNITY TO SHOW WHAT YOU CAN DO AND BE LIMITED ONLY BY YOUR OWN ABILITIES!

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I disagree
Posted by: marjani on Nov 22, 2008 7:37 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No. Because your grandmother did not marry your grandmother, she married your grandfather. Big difference.

Please don't try calling people who are against gay marriage 'homophobic' because all are not. People being against gay marriage is not even remotely similar to racism.

Gays were not slaves in any country and didn't live under Jim Crow law because they were gay; that is about sexual preference which someone would only know about if you told them.

On the other hand, racism against blacks was strictly based on skin color; and no black person has to tell you they are black.

Sexual preference, whether by birth or choice, is something no one has to reveal unless they are comfortable doing so;

being black, on the other hand -- you don't have to say a word to be discriminated against. It is automatic.

There is a big difference in the two. Blacks don't get a 'homophobia pass'; they just deeply understand the difference.

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» RE: I disagree Posted by: yesman
» RE: I disagree Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: I disagree Posted by: EdinIowa
» RE: I disagree Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: I SOOO disagree Posted by: tabanka
» Everything in your post is depraved, marjani Posted by: Friend Of Jonathan
» RE: I disagree Posted by: yellow
» RE: I disagree Posted by: Bittersham2
Exactly Right
Posted by: yesman on Nov 22, 2008 10:35 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I couldn't agree more with everything in this article. However, white people don't get a pass for homophobia, and neither does anyone else. The plain simple fact is that anyone who does not fully and robustly support marriage equality for gay and lesbian people is rationalizing their bigotry at best. Until all of us are free, none of us are. It's just that simple.

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nvannes
Posted by: nvannes on Nov 22, 2008 11:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amen, Bro.
I'm another one who cannot understand black opposition to gay rights. It's as if their plight is somehow trivialized, their new found freedom threatened if they should stand up for another, different fight for freedom. Like the separate but equal conservatives, it is as if to say, "we have found ours, now stay out of our lives," not realizing that no one is completely free until every one is completely free. This is not so much about gay rights as it is the right to be free, however one chooses to define it. To say the gay argument "doesn't work" for blacks, tells me one thing: the blacks who feel that way......haven't thought about it long enough.

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Hey Mavis you still there? When I was 24 fresh out of the Army, Mavis proposed to me.
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 23, 2008 6:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
She was a lesbian girl about thirty but for some reason when we met it was just like Deja Vue all overagain! She took pity on me when I knew I knew her but didn't know from where. Doll face I should have done it instead of chickening out over your dad.

If you are there please remember this it is no one persons failing that we are what and who we are. I know you know that but sometimes it is good to hear. I hope Bernie is doing well and that Mickey is still Mickey and not another just another banger on the street.

May spirit be with you always in what ever you do.

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Thank you for taking a stand
Posted by: tabanka on Nov 23, 2008 7:45 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clay, this is so on point! I am glad you have taken Cannick to task - specifically around who can claim "ownership" over civil & human rights. I would add that what Cannick seems to miss is that it shouldn't be the sole task/labour of black folks to do anti-racist, anti poverty, HIV awareness work. That Cannick is committed to these issues is noble. But I argue it should be the responsibility of all. Its sad that the "Gay Marriage debate" has been so blown out of proportion when really this is just simply an issue of recognition.

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Blame The Black Church
Posted by: NoPCZone on Nov 23, 2008 8:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The African American community is not well served by churches that have embraced prosperity gospel and have failed to educate the faithful on the rightness of gay marriage.

I am not gay, but strongly support the efforts of the LGBT community on this issue. Our LGBT friends, family and neighbors are not asking for special rights- just equal rights. That is something the African-American community should clearly understand and embrace.

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Vote Your Concious!!!!!
Posted by: ds1st on Nov 23, 2008 11:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the issue here? People voted their conscious and Gay individuals can’t get married. Okay

People voted for Obama and he is our next President. Okay

Just because a side did not win, doesn’t mean that there is anything wrong. Civil unions are available.

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» RE: Vote Your Concious!!!!! Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Vote Your Concious!!!!! Posted by: mjglow
Now that we have a Black President it's time to call the Black Community out on their prejudices!!
Posted by: yellow on Nov 23, 2008 12:54 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been the main target of persecution in the US doesn't mean that Black folks have been immune from being bigots themselves. They have exhibited the most vile forms of homophobia, anti-Latino racism, anti-semitism and, of course, sexism which seems to be a finely honed specialty (think beeotch!!). In coming into the mainstream of society more and more Black folks must also learn tolerance. Many are still in denial about this and resent sharing victim status with anybody else.

America is not by any means a racist society. This last election proved this fact beyond a shadow of a doubt. It does contain strong elements of racism but there is a big difference between that and being an institutionalized racist society which some falsely claim that it is. I have argued with much supporting evidence that despite slow real growth and chronic unemployment over the last thirty years, the US Black middle class grew precisely at this time as the American middle class in general declined. Yes, there are still economic gaps between the white and black communities, mostly because of the fantastic wealth of some whites at the upper end of the US income structure, but they are slowing but surely closing despite hard times. It's time for Black prejudice to die down in the same way white prejudice has done. Such progress is an inseparable part of the other progress made by the US black community in its long, difficult journey toward social equality.

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Inexcusable!
Posted by: mstenger on Nov 23, 2008 4:55 PM   
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Gays have worked hard to help the blacks move to the front of the bus, and the blacks just threw us under the bus. Disgraceful!

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» RE: Inexcusable! Posted by: CatDad
I have always wondered....
Posted by: mtatasmith on Nov 23, 2008 6:50 PM   
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Why blacks (men in particular) are so seemingly over agitated by gay issues. I am thinking there is something more to it...I have heard stories about why people are so frightened to go to prison. Is there something hidden deep inside somewhere that nobody is sharing? Just doesn't make sense unless there is more to the picture that we are being shown.

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The responses to this article are exactly why I have said it evades the point all along.
Posted by: Nightstallion on Nov 23, 2008 8:58 PM   
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By digressing into global attitude adjustments for Nosey Nate biddies and stupid silly mouthy punks who only parrot the leading shitheaded attitudes we have displayed why we can't be trusted with sharp objects. Not even sharp minds for all of that. If you don’t get it you are not going to get it till you have experienced it, “when the students are ready the Master shall appear” kind of stuff.

It is my opinion that little boys should be obscene and not heard . . . Same goes for little girls. I am recorded as saying I am a gay/bisexual male. I have done all the normal things though and that makes me a little different. I have a naturally created daughter who’s mother thought I was a little strange, but acceptable. But, she died. So I took up with a man. I was happy for a while but he died so I took up with a woman. So my life has gone for many years.

Now I read about this Proposition – 8 and decided to write the Governor about it, I never got an answer before it went before the people. My question was and still is: How can you let something that is under the purview of individual opinion and personal precept be Voted upon as law? Arnold Schwarzenegger or one of his secretaries chose not to answer my question. So it still stands.

Then I read on all this hoopla that is in the press about the Black Vote being the deciding factor and smelled a definite smoke screen! People are going to be ignorant. They have been living an enforced ignorance in this country since Roanoke. If it is possible to pass the buck or get the mindless idiots to babble at 50,000 freaks a second (sorry Michael but if the foo shits wear it!) they will do so as long as NO ONE HAS TO CHANGE OR ACCEPT PERSONAL RESPONSIBILITY FOR SOMETHING!

Please people: NO LEGISLATIVE BODY HAS THE RIGHT TO PUT A BILL BEFORE THE PEOPLE THAT REQUIRES THEM TO VOTE ON AN ALREADY GIVEN POSITION! If you do so it legitimizes the claim of that body that rights can be legislated! What part of set up do you not get? I admit I play with these internet blogs quite a bit, I do it in the hopes that my seemingly mindless maunderings will be enlightening by example.

LEARN FROM THE MISTAKES OF OTHERS YOU CANNOT POSSIBLY MAKE THEM ALL YOURSELF! These legislators are criminals, I do not know what they are hiding but this bill was used as a foil to conceal something deadly I fear. This country is amok with vipers wearing KKK sheets and Neo-NAZI goose stepping heel uniforms. Some of our younger folk are drawn to this because of the DIFFERENT smell. Something is happening here! Make it clear!

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» Ah...the bastard that is democracy? Posted by: ABetterFuture
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: Where are we heading? Posted by: davmills
» RE: Where are we heading? Posted by: javajoe
good article and thanks, but...
Posted by: ayala on Nov 24, 2008 2:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't get the white women's right to vote analogy. Black men had the right to vote 25 years before, not after, white women.

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Downfall of identity politics
Posted by: ceti on Nov 27, 2008 9:06 PM   
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It seems that the social, economic and political elites have gotten a free ride from this engineered competition of victomology between oppressed groups. We saw it in the primaries to the point that feminists and anti-racists were at each other's throats in their support of two very centrist candidates. We also see the final pathetic chapter of identity politics, with Obama and Hillary teaming up for a center-right administration.

And in this case, we see certain section of the African American population, indoctrinated with conservative Christianity and machismo, vote to deny marriage rights to others. It's sad but predictable and should put pad to all our pretensions about the inherent solidarity of oppressed groups. America has been built on hierarchical oppressions, with poor whites looking down on blacks, and now blacks looking with revulsion and resentment at gays.

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