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Sex and Relationships

Surprising Last Minute Religious Rallies for Both Sides of CA's Proposition 8

By Karen Ocamb, AlterNet. Posted November 3, 2008.


The final push both for and against California's proposition 8 to terminate marriage rights for gay couples was made by various religious groups.
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In synagogues and church pulpits across California the Sunday before the Nov. 4 election, rabbis and preachers admonished their flock on how to vote on Proposition 8, the ballot initiative that would eliminate the right of same sex couples to marry.

In Sacramento, Rev. Rodolfo Llamas told congregants at St. Peter's Catholic Church to vote for Prop 8. "This vote is insulting God," Llamas said at early Mass, the Sacramento Bee reported. "When civil power steps on religious power, then there is a problem." Two hours later, the Rev. Ginny Curinga urged her church members at Sierra Arden United Church of Christ to vote No on Prop 8 as a matter of civil rights. "It has angered me so much to hear the propaganda about Proposition 8," Curinga said. "We need to stand up and vote against this kind of hatred."

Sunday night, however, hundreds of demonstrators from both sides took to the streets in what local television news station CBS13 reported were "violent" clashes resulting in three arrests. "You know, if my child grows up and decides they're going to be gay and they get married, I want them to have that right," Christina Rothman told the CBS13 reporter. "That's why I'm here."

On the other side, a Prop 8 proponent shouted: "Think about your future for your kids. What's going to happen when they grow up?" Not surprisingly, there were no such confrontations at a large get-out-the-vote No on Prop 8 rally in West Hollywood Sunday afternoon. One rally that did surprise the country -- and the organizers -- was a quiet vigil against Prop 8 in Salt Lake City, Utah. More than 600 people showed up at Salt Lake City's Library Square heeding a call from three Mormon mothers of gay children.

"I am so touched that you would be here," said a tearful Millie Watts, the mother of six who organized the vigil, The Salt Lake Tribune reported. "This is what happens when people in California say mean things about our gay kids. The mothers come out of the closet."

Linda Barney, another Mormon mother/organizer, said her heart "reaches out to young Californians, teens who are not out of the closet who are alone ... listening to hateful [rhetoric]...They need to hear from us. They need to know there are people with loving hearts." Watts said she felt "disappointment and betrayal" by the Church of Latter-day Saints, which, according to the independent group Californians Against Hate, has raised $22 million to pass Prop 8. LDS Church and the Yes on 8 campaign, Watts said, is "dividing families."

As a result, some Mormons have left the church. Tiffany Lewis, 21, however, found a way to remain a Mormon and still support her gay brother and oppose Prop 8. "Everyone should have equal rights," she told the Tribune. "You can't help who you love. People deserve to be together."

Famous former San Francisco 49er quarterback Steve Young, who is a descendant of Mormon founder Brigham Young, also demonstrated their opposition to Prop 8, the Bee reported, by posting "No on 8" signs in front of their Palo Alto home. His wife Barbara also contributed $50,000 and issued a statement saying, "our family will vote against Prop. 8."

But Prop 8 has its own big guns -- including Focus on the Family's James Dobson and Tony Perkins, head of the Family Research Council, who showed up for a Christian evangelical rally Saturday at Qualcomm Stadium in San Diego. The massive rally was organized by TheCall's Lou Engle and Dr. Jim Garlow, Senior Pastor of Skyline Wesleyan Church.

"Lou Engles is regarded as a prophet and apostle in what is known as Latter Rain, Manifest Destiny, Third Wave, Joel's Army movement," says longtime Religious Right-watcher Jerry Sloan. "Most mainstream media simply does not understand the implications of this theology. A bigger part of this movement is found in a world wide effort to win 1 billion people over to its teaching ...They are virulently anti-gay and want to be able to have people who are in places of authority in governments everywhere."

"I want to move angels and demons today," the charismatic Engle told the crowd, which prayed intensely and jumped up and down to the constant Christian rock music in the unrelenting 84-degree heat. "We are crying out for mercy for this nation and for this state."

In his introduction to Dobson, Garlow said the battle over Prop 8 was a "make it or break it moment for our state and our nation" and reminded the audience that Watergate felon and now Christian religious leader Chuck Colson called Prop 8 "the spiritual Armageddon." James Dobson calls it "Gettysburg." Donald Wildmon (of the American family Association) said to me on the phone just two days ago, "If we lose now, it is over."... So what hangs in the balance -- what we do here in these next few moments determines everything." Dobson, Garlow said, is "one of the five star generals" in the cause for the cause of traditional marriage.

Dobson talked about how he felt "the Lord's hand in my back telling me to go [to TheCall rally] ... because it is so critical ... Who would have believed that on our watch in our day the institution of marriage would be on the ropes? And it is across the country and if the Lord does not intervene it will be lost. And many, many things will go with it."

Dobson also addressed some protesters. "I don't even know where they are but I can hear them and there are some others outside," he said. "I want you to know that we care about you. We're glad you're here. This is not about hate. This is about love. We love you."

However, no protesters were visible inside or outside the stadium and the constant music and the young people mumbling prayers out loud made it difficult to understand what protesters Dobson was addressing.

Perkins was received with less adulation. His admonition through prayer was that, "Our responsibility as Christians to stand does not end on Tuesday," and to commit to the struggle beyond the election.

If TheCall organizers hoped to fill Qualcomm Stadium, which holds 71,000 people, their expectations fell far short. A public relations person associated with TheCall reported 33,000 participants, based on "clickers" recording people coming through the gates. However, two journalists independently concluded that there were no "clickers" at the main entrance. The two journalists guesstimated the crowd at between 10,000-15,000 people.

A Latino Yes on 8 participant, who works at Qualcomm Stadium, placed the crowd count at around 5,000 and called the event "a failure." And since many of TheCall participants flew in for the rally and not to help pass Prop 8, the effect of the rally is uncertain, at least in the short run.

On the other side of town, in front of the LGBT Community Center, more than 6,000 San Diegans turned out as a counter-rally to TheCall and candlelight march. The "Making the Right Call" No on Prop 8 rally included Republican San Diego Mayor Jerry Sanders and his lesbian daughter Lisa and lesbian City Councilmember Toni Atkins. Earlier, more than 500 people attended an interfaith service at St. Paul's Episcopal Cathedral with more than 30 local clergy from diverse denominations.

Now each side is trying to rally their troops to turn out to vote. The final Field Poll before the election showed the No on Prop 8 slightly ahead by five points -- but the combined 7 percent undecided voters and 3.3 percent margin of error suggests the battle over Prop 8 will go right down to the wire on election night.

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And our tax dollars subsidize the haters
Posted by: Moonray on Nov 3, 2008 1:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What adds insult to injury is that Bible-thumping groups are paid by all of us in the form of generous tax breaks. That's why there are so many of these "believers" dishing out their BS from countless pulpits and many TV channels: It's a great way to make tons of money with very little government oversight.

And, of course, there's an infinite supply of gullible rubes willing to share their paychecks with these charlatans. The spread of conservative "religious" groups now poses a clear and present danger to American democracy and even world peace. (Some groups advocate war on various "wicked" enemies.)

This nonsense will continue -- perhaps with tragic, global consequences -- until Americans shut off the financial spigot by ending tax breaks for all religious groups. New laws also should be passed to protect minors under 18 from any religious indocrination and limiting these groups' access to the mass media.
Until these changes are made, these wackos will continue to run amok -- and win national elections.

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» RE: And our tax dollars subsidize the haters Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
Human/Civil rights should not be up for vote!
Posted by: maddasein on Nov 3, 2008 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that I have been in discussions or arguments for the past several days in regards to this. I am gay and sick and tired of the empty arguments from the ant-gay rights advocates. I know why politicians and church leaders get involved in discrimination against gay people. It's because as a wedge issue they can control their followers by instilling fear in them. As if allowing gay people to marry will somehow cause nullify all other hetero marriages or better yet, we will start recruiting children for our big ol' gay army in the school yards... ya know so we can take over the world and then destroy it. Yeehaw!!!!

I mean, Jesus Christ on a moped!!! What the hell is wrong with people?

I have tried posing the argument of civil rights for African Americans and the fact that not long ago it was illegal to marry outside of your race, but to no avail. Then I have tried getting people to imagine what it would be like for them to be denied by LAW the right to have a family and in turn the right to happiness. Still they just don't get it. I've heard the argument that we gay people already have rights to which I have explained that if the government uses laws to define homosexuals as "different" and therefore not owed the same rights and protections as everyone else then that just gives other people more reasons harbor intolerance and even hatred towards us. For then, we are merely second class citizens.

Sarah Palin said in her debate with Biden that she "tolerates" gay people. Ya know what? F that! We deserve better! We deserve respect and acceptance as fellow citizens and most importantly as human beings.

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Equal Treatment
Posted by: QQOblivion on Nov 3, 2008 1:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Proposition 8 passes in California, I move to place on the next California ballot, maybe place on the ballots of as many states as possible, a referendum to ban STRAIGHT marriages, and to annul all straight marriages in the states in which the ballot item passes.

Sound radical, even mean-spirited?

Well, perhaps ALL marriage, gay or straight, offends me. Perhaps marriage violates MY sense of decency. Marriage is perverted and immoral, I believe.

We must take a stand and OUTLAW straight marriages now!

The law should be applied equally. So I say apply the marriage-ban to straights too! It is the only MORAL thing to do!

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» RE: Equal Treatment Posted by: DHopper
Its Good To see...
Posted by: Godfather89 on Nov 3, 2008 2:45 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is good to see that The Spiritual left is finally out to make religion look tolerant and accepting. 2 points for religion. See religion is not necessarily bad. Of course you have the intolerant bunch but you know what the problem is Fundamentalism.

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» RE: Its Good To see... Posted by: reval
» RE: Its Good To see... Posted by: Richard House
One Consideration
Posted by: Ahimsa on Nov 3, 2008 4:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is fundamental that legislation such as Proposition 8 be called unamerican and unpatriotic.
The Constitution declares the equality of rights of all American citizens.
To seek to alter our law, the soul of this nation, for the sake of discriminatory ideologies is against the principles of the nation.
Unless, of course, there is more than on set of principles.
Why are not more people calling these bigots unpatriotic?
Why aren't we calling them more loudly on the hypocrisy of their beliefs?
The moment religion steps into politics, it loses its immunity, and becomes fair game for discussion.
There is a moment when religion can go against the good of the country, it is at that moment that it becomes unpatriotic, and should be judged by the people.

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Oh, the Irony
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Nov 3, 2008 5:58 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"When civil power steps on religious power, then there is a problem."

My oh my, how they have it backwards. The real issue here is that church weddings have been the norm for same-sex couples for decades. There are some churches that are welcoming and others that aren't. But the religious right, who want Yes on 8 are telling the LIE that the state will force ALL churches to perform same-sex weddings.

False.

The religious people who are pushing Yes on 8 only want to stop legal weddings. That's because you can have a wedding in a church all day and night long but it's not LEGAL unless you get a license from the state.

Thus, the issue is purely this: The church is intruding 100% into the affairs of the state. They want to stop ONLY legal weddings from occurring.

If the Yes on 8 crowd wins it will not force ANY church that currently wants to perform a church wedding from doing so. It will only stop the piece of paper from the state telling the world that's it's legitimate.

Oh, the irony. And voters are too stupid to see thru it.

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» RE: Oh, the Irony Posted by: kwo
» kwo is wrong Posted by: kittybrat
Yes For Proposition 8
Posted by: YesForProp8 on Nov 3, 2008 6:25 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes on 8!!!

Vote YES for Proposition 8!!!

Proposition 8 restores traditional marriage. Why can't gay partnerships be given a different word to describe their relationship rather than confusing children, contracts, and American culture? We can call it gayriage or something.

Yes on 8!!!!!!!

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» RE: Yes For Proposition 8 Posted by: DHopper
» RE: Yes For Proposition 8 Posted by: kaseru
» RE: Yes For Proposition 8 Posted by: mythmorph
» Bwahahahaha! Posted by: DaBear
» Where is YesforProp8? Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Yes For Proposition 8 Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: Yes For Proposition 8 Posted by: papibear
no more "SEPARATE BUT EQUAL" arguments please
Posted by: pollen8 on Nov 3, 2008 7:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's madness to think that people are seriously trying to use the "Separate but Equal" Argument... I found this video, and it put things in a very very clear light for me, please check it out, it's succinct and clear:
NO SEPARATE BUT EQUAL IN 2008

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American Democracy
Posted by: jennywo on Nov 3, 2008 7:32 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only thing that "poses a clear and present danger to American democracy" are judges who overturn the democratic process - a vote of 61% of the people.

And the groups that advocate war are absolutely wrong but, those are not the groups who are campaigning for Prop 8. Christians and their leaders are advocating love to everyone, including homosexuals. That however doesn't mean we have to allow gay activists to take the word "marriage" and make it mean whatever they want - without a democratic process.

And maddasein, you obviously know little to nothing about religious people and why they stay faithful to their various gospels! I am not afraid and I don't believe gay marriage will nullify any other marriages - that is pure hate rhetoric and doesn't represent anyone voting for Prop 8.

What allowing gay marriage will do is condone a definition of marriage that no one in history has ever allowed. It will open the door to more disintegration of the family. It will allow the indoctrination of children to the gay activists' religion.

Yes, the gay activist religion - such hypocrisy! You all spout against religion but fail to see that you have your own religion - a set of core beliefs that guide your actions. You have payed money, given time, in your own way have even prayed, meditated, sung the hymns and preached the sermons of this religion. And, this religion I might add has done the very thing you fear will happen - advocate war by stealing signs, vandalizing property, shouting profanities and hate speech at others simply because they dare to disagree with you and are standing their ground. You may say, that's not me, I didn't do that - but your religion advocated it.

Look in the mirror! The evil you are trying to fight is right there.

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» RE: American Democracy Posted by: kwo
» RE: American Democracy Posted by: PopRox80
» RE: American Democracy Posted by: DHopper
» NO AMERICAN TALIBAN Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
» RE: American Democracy Posted by: maddasein
» RE: American Democracy Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: American Democracy Posted by: rem3864
» RE: American Democracy Posted by: DHopper
Prop 8 Does remove rights !!!
Posted by: surfingbrad on Nov 3, 2008 7:38 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Prop. 8 does not remove any rights from homosexual couples. Domestic partnerships already have all the same rights and privileges as married couples under the law (please see the CA Family Code section 297.5, which states: "Registered domestic partners shall have the same rights, protections, and benefits, and shall be subject to the same responsibilities, obligations, and duties under law, whether they derive from statutes, administrative regulations, court rules, government policies, common law, or any other provisions or sources of law, as are granted to and imposed upon spouses."

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This is MARXISM
Posted by: kwo on Nov 3, 2008 8:04 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Proposition 8 upholds traditonal marraige... an institution which has been traditionaly defined as 1 Man 1 Woman. Opponents of this legislation say that this is "hate speech" and "discrimination." What right does the gay community have in changing a tradition that dates back through history? Its ironic that they call marraige a "religious institution" and they so badly want separation of church and state. Yet, through government, they attempt change this "religious institution" to a meaning that is non-discriminatory...according to their definition. Liberals have used political correctness to change our language and dilute its meaning. Textbooks have been rewritten to include "non-sexist" words... Lumberjack to woodcutter, mail man to mail carrier and so on. Using the power of government to dictate the beliefs of churches and individuals is MARXISM. So few have read the Communist Manifesto and understand what is written in it. People unknowingly follow the popular aura of the media to fight against hate and discrimation, a front which is put on by activists with an ulterior motive... Socialism/Marxism/Communism. In case you are wondering what this means...it will mean that governemnt will take your rights to believe what you want to believe in your home, because your beliefs may hurt another's feelings. Read 1984, read Brave New World, read the Communist Manifesto. Do you not see the paralles? My friends, this is not about rights for gay couples, it is about STEALING the people's rights and subjecting the to subservience to the almighty government.

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» RE: This is MARXISM Posted by: Lauren
» RE: This is MARXISM Posted by: Adastra
Uphold America's Traditional Values
Posted by: YesForProp8 on Nov 3, 2008 8:22 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America was a nation founded on discrete principles and MORALS. There's a reason historical societies have never embraced gay marriage. If you say our society is evolving, then the gays' movement for gay marriage will result in our own destruction. We will lose America's values and culture; it will be replaced by immigrants because gays can not have families...evolution and nature tells us that. Marriage should be presevered for heterosexual couples...it's not about civil rights...you chose to be gay. An African American can't choose his race or the color of his skin but you can choose your sexual orientation.

YES ALL THE WAY ON PROP 8!!!!!!!


Check out www.ProtectMarriage.com to see how Prop 8 will impact your world.

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at night...
Posted by: maddasein on Nov 3, 2008 9:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...people go trolling apparently.

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So, let's see if I understand understand this correctly.....
Posted by: reval on Nov 4, 2008 4:59 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
..... The Yes on 8 crowd are firmly convinced that at the top of their favorite supernatural deity's list of concerns is what people do with their genitalia. Is that a correct assessment?
~Rev El Mundo
Pastor, WVCSR

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Both Obama and McCain support unconstitutional "faith based" scam
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Nov 4, 2008 8:24 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both want to give taxpayer money to churches, which will further empower churches to promote their hateful agendas. Nader won't do any such damn thing! Obama has said that civil unions should suffice for the needs of gay life partnerships, which means that he has backslid on just one more thing, and which means that he would cede to gay people the secular, but not the sacred. How is that the business of government? www.votenader.org

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Wrong
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Nov 4, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is BS from the first sentence. Nobody's "rights" are being "terminated." A few judges in San Fancisco decided they were the rulers of the entire state and could circumvent the will of the people in a democracy. Nobody gained any rights from some rogue judges throwing out the state constitution or the rule of law. Further, marriage is a man and a woman. Has been as far back as you care to go, and though you're welcome to make up some other word for the short-lived relationships that homosexuals tend to have, you're not free to co-opt that word. The media loves to parade these "couples" that have been together for such a long time, but 1) those are probably BS and 2) they certainly aren't representative of the vast, overwhelming majority of homosexual relationships, which are in fact typically continued instances of infidelity and battery. Why would they want to be "married" anyway, given that their only real commitment is to promiscuity?

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» RE: Wrong indeed Posted by: DaBear
Jesus Talks With Pat Robertson About Gay Marriage
Posted by: jimswanson on Nov 4, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA
www.bushleagueofnations.com [for FREE downloads of entire book]

I’m an active progressive Christian who is appalled at the rise of the Christian Reich’s upside-down version of Christ and Christianity—Pro-Rich and Pro-War—and the GOP’s War on Iraq and War on America.

As a Christian, I know there are many reasons, including many Christian reasons, to vote NO on Prop 8 in California today.

Stand tall for GLBT rights. If you live in California please vote NO on Prop 8.

I believe the most effective humor is based in truth. With that in mind, I point you to a sidebar (pp. 227-8) in my deadly serious new book: “The Bush League of Nations: The Coalition of the Unwilling, the Bullied and the Bribed – the GOP’s War on Iraq and America,” by James A. Swanson (2008, published by CreateSpace Publishing, 448 pages).

The sidebar is entitled:

Jesus Talks With Pat Robertson About Gay Marriage
"Gay Marriage? Haven't They Been Punished Enough?"

You can download the entire book for free at www.bushleagueofnations.com.

Jim Swanson, Los Altos, CA

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"It's a puzzlement...."
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Nov 4, 2008 9:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's the way Yul Brynner looked at an issue in the "King and I." With ongoing murder in Iraq, Afghanistan and elsewhere; deep economic RECESSION [Yup, we in it!]nationwide; robber barons throughout the federal government and Wall Street; debt that will never be overcome and will render this the latest 3rd World emergence; denial of anything wrong or wrongdoing by anyone, these supposed minions of the cloth can find nothing better to do than bash gays. Quare: would any of this pathetic crowd spend as much time, effort, money and interest on any of the above? Nope. So, as the last foreclosure hits the leading foreclosure state in the nation and the downtrodden flee to refuge in Pentacostal Alaska, let's see how welcome they are in the bosom of its great savior Sarah SNL Palin. Good luck poor souls.

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Constitutional conundrum?
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Nov 4, 2008 9:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Firstly, my opinion is that marriage should be a social institution, and as such, should be subject to whatever whims and restrictions people who enter such covenants agree to. If you and your twelve like-minded folks want to restrict marriage to people over six feet tall with green hair, then you found your organization and charter it to do so.

Folks, that's not the problem. The "problem" is that the social institution of marriage has been governmentalized, with special benefits and protections afforded married folks. But that's not really the problem, either. The "problem" is that we have a government founded for the people, of the people, and by the people, and under republic's Constitution, our

a) government must afford us the reasonable expectation of privacy

b) government must afford us all equal protection under the law

Some problem, eh? Rather agreeable, as problems generally go...

Now, we live in a free and liberal society--we enjoy the right to assemble, to petition the government for redress, to keep and bear arms as private citizens, to participate in government, etc. and etc. So I say to folks who want to upend the 4th and 14th amendments: there is a way to do that! You get your exception to equal protection under the law to pass through Congress and be ratified by 2/3 of the states. No matter how you feel about lifestyle choices, you can't (shouldn't, anyway) arbitrarily pencil in exceptions to Constitutional guarantees, especially not through crude democratic processes, and expect our republic to continue to function to also protect the rights of you and yours.

So, with the government-backed "protections" marriage affords people, this is no longer a purely social issue. It's a Constitutional one, and regardless of what I think of two dudes getting hitched, our Constitution pretty explicitly says that what's good for the goose and gander should be applicable to the gander and gander.

Ah, but prop 8 is what you get when you put your faith in democracy in general and various iterations of "populism".

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DaveM
Posted by: davemckinney on Nov 4, 2008 10:22 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The first comment in this thread speaks to my understanding of the targeted assault on churches and families. With that type of hate and intolerance, you certainly can't be confused why so many people want to step out and protect their religious freedoms.

The average gay couple, I believe, is well-intentioned, and wants only to validate their union. I don't agree with it and I'm voting against it by voting Yes on 8, but I can understand their view and feel empathy towards them.

It's these extreme activists, like vultures circling overhead, who want to rip our institutions to pieces that really bother me and cause me to work day and night in support of 8.

We can't give them an inch, because once they've got their ill-intentioned foot in the door, you better get the women and children off to safety, because they'll show no mercy.

Churches are a driving force for charitable work in our communities. You find direct relief to those in need coming from these organizations. Some people spend their non-profit dollars fighting the so-called evils of man (Greenpeace, animal rights etc.), while churches spend their time and non-profit dollars caring for and lifting people in our communities and abroad.

We are an army. We are strong. We have a mission. We will win!

Vote YES on Prop 8.

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» VOTE "NO" on PROP 8! Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
The Trolls are out in force
Posted by: DaBear on Nov 4, 2008 11:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well that was fun. Thanks trolls for all the amusing diversion.

I'm looking forward to your Xtian Taliban going down in flames today.

Don't worry, you're imagined assault on your "churches" will come true after this craptasm. Your hatred and your totalitarianism is earning you the vengeance that's coming.

When the Xtian fundie whackos grow up they'll be welcomed back to California. But hey, you earned your backlash for now. The level of hate, inhumane savagery your religion has just shown the world will have blowback. Count on it. We're happy to provide your wish-fulfillment.

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stylenease
Posted by: stylenease on Nov 4, 2008 11:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I absolutely despise these Mormon bigots, and these horrible talking heads that call themselves Christians. They really need to have their tax exempt status removed for becoming so involved in Politics. The Mormom Church should be taxed at least 50%.

The funny thing about all of this is that a prevailing Yes Vote on Prop 8 will be a short lived victory for the hatemongers. The CA Supreme Court will simply strike down a Victory for Yes on Prop 8 as Unconstititional under CA Law. :) Hahahahahaha, Mormon trash.

Furthermore, the US Supreme Court has been very reluctant to take up issues that pertain to Gay Mariage as the prevailing opinion on the High Court is the final ruling would be best settled at the State level.

Victory -- for Civil Rights and for Homosexuality! Sorry, hateful Mormons -- bigotry never pays.

I don't live in CA, but I now have a personal hatred for Mormons based on what they are trying to do here. You could call me, "virulently" anti-Mormom.

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» MORMONS/DOBSONITES *NOT* WELCOME! Posted by: johnbradleycopeland
Same-sex Marriage - A Timeline
Posted by: sakuranoko on Nov 4, 2008 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I came across a site that has an excellent timeline chronicling the struggles of both proponents and opponents of same-sex marriage. It is comprehensive, covering 1970 to the present with info. about policies in the US and elsewhere. If you're interested in this topic, whether you're for or against it, this site has some interesting information.

http://borngay.procon.org

the timeline is at"
http://borngay.procon.org/viewresource.asp?resourceID=25

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just plain mean spirited
Posted by: sicntired on Nov 6, 2008 12:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main reason religion has such a bad name is because of their tendency to feel they know what's best for everyone.The one way to know a person is ignorant is if they think they have all the answers.

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