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Rights and Liberties

Sarah Palin's Creationism Will Rape the Environment

By Chip Ward, Tomdispatch.com. Posted September 22, 2008.


The Bush admin has been a nightmare for the environment -- and the nomination of Palin is an insurance policy taken out on its continuation.
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Despite the media feeding frenzy, we still may be asking ourselves, "Just who exactly is Sarah Palin?" Mixed in with the Davy-Crockett-meets-SuperMom vignettes -- all those moose hunting, ice fishing, snowmobiling, baby-juggling, and hockey-momming moments -- we've also learned that she doesn't care much for her former brother-in-law and wasn't afraid to use her office to go after his job as a state trooper; that she was for the "bridge to nowhere" before she was against it; that she's against earmarks unless they benefit her constituents; that she can deliver a snappy wisecracking speech, thinks banning books in libraries is okay, considers herself a pit bull with lipstick, and above all else, wants to drill the ever-lovin' daylights out of every corner of her home state (which John McCain's handlers have somehow translated into being against Big Oil, since she insisted on a marginally bigger cut of the profits for Alaskans).


Oh, and -- not that this is very important to Americans or the planet -- she now thinks that global warming might possibly be human-made sorta though she didn't before, despite the fact that the state she governs is on the frontline of climate change. And, of course, she's a classic right-wing, fundamentalist Christian: against abortion -- check; against same-sex marriage -- check; against stem-cell research -- check; favors teaching Creationism in public schools -- check.


It's that last item, her willingness to put Creationism up against the teaching of evolutionary science in the classroom on a he-says-she-says basis, that's far more revealing of just who our new Republican vice presidential candidate is than we generally assume. It deserves the long, hard look that it hasn't yet gotten. Most Democrats and progressives tend to think of the teaching of Creationism as a mere sidebar item on their agenda of political don't-likes, but it's not. Sarah Palin's bias towards Creationism is a window into her political soul and a measure of John McCain's hypocrisy.


It's possible that the public has been fooled into thinking of McCain as a "maverick" when it comes to his party's abysmal record on the environment, but his selection of Palin as his running mate sends quite a different message. In fact, he's potentially put future generations on a "bridge to nowhere" (or perhaps to the fourteenth century). Whether we know it or not, we should now be duly warned: The Palin nomination is the equivalent of launching a "surge strategy" in the Republican war on the environment.


The Republican Holy War on Nature (Continued)


For the past eight years, the Bush administration's assault on environmental quality has been so deliberate, destructive, and hostile that the usual explanations -- while not wrong -- are hardly adequate. Yes, Republican animosity to government regulation is long-standing. Yes, they believe in the power of an unrestricted marketplace to shape our collective behaviors. And yes, they emphasize property rights over notions of the commons and have often been comfortable sacrificing wildlife, air, and water quality in the pursuit of profits. In addition, despite recent claims, they are indeed the party of Big Oil. But none of this quite explains the Bush administration's shameful record on the environment. In the final analysis, the only explanation that fits the nightmare of the last eight years is this: It has been on a holy war against nature -- and the nomination of Sarah Palin is essentially an insurance policy taken out on its continuation.


The idea that the environment matters is ingrained in Americans, even those who don't think of themselves as environmentally inclined. Democrats and Republicans alike have learned the hard way that the decisions we make about what we allow into our air, water, and soil gets translated into our skin, blood, and bones. We now sense that we all live downwind and downstream from one another, and that it is prudent to practice restraint and take precautions when making environmental decisions.


This unspoken consensus is one of the great accomplishments of the modern environmental movement. The policies of the Bush regime have been shocking and shameful exactly because they fly in the face of these shared values and beliefs. Only when we grasp that the narrow Republican base both Bush and McCain pander to no longer shares these basic values and beliefs, does their war on the natural world make sense.


If you believe that a look-alike God made the world for you to dominate and use, that you are among God's chosen few, and that He will provide for you no matter what you do to your surroundings, then you are likely to see yourself as above the natural order. If you believe that the world will be ending soon anyway, that you will be "raptured" while non-believers are "left behind" (as fundamentalist Tim LeHay so vividly describes the process in his bestselling novels), then precaution and restraint are moot. Remember, more than 60% of the nation's 60 million evangelicals believe that the Bible is literally true, every last word of it, and more than a third believe the end of the world will occur in their lifetime.


That's why a pro-Creationist stand is no sideline issue, but the litmus test that reveals whether a politician shares the religious right's ideology -- a literal interpretation of the Bible, a disparaging attitude towards science, belief in mankind's unfettered dominion over the natural world, and a willingness to impose its religious doctrines on others.


Both of Sarah Palin's churches -- the Wasilla Assembly of God where her faith was shaped as a child and the Wasilla Bible Church that she attends today -- believe in just such a literal interpretation of the Bible. From Biblical study, Creationists have calculated that the Earth is only about 6,000 years old. That this is contradicted by the fossil record matters little to those who also think Revelations is a reasonable guide to foreign policy in the twenty-first century. Asked during her run for governor if Creationism should be taught in the public schools, Palin responded that the theory of evolution and Creationism should be taught side by side, and then "the students could debate" which is true.


Why Evolution Matters




When many Americans think "evolution," they probably recall that illustration of an ape, then a Neanderthal, then a hairy caveman, and finally, a modern homo sapiens walking in a line and growing ever more upright as they proceed. That illustration crudely highlights the aspect of evolutionary theory that pinches the nerves of Christian zealots who prefer a creation scenario like the one painted on the roof of the Sistine Chapel -- God tagging Man with life, finger to finger. But the human common ancestry with primates is just a fraction of what evolutionary theory is all about.


Evolution is largely about connection and interaction -- the linear connection of one species evolving into another (speciation), but also how species fill niches created by one another, how they interact, exchanging energy and information, how they compete as well as cooperate, and how all of them -- from microbial soils to migrating birds -- form dynamic communities that, in turn, are also woven together, web within web within web. Pull one thread of that living tapestry and you tug at so many others, which is why precaution is so wise.


Evolutionary theory does not preclude God. It uncovers the how of life, but leaves the why of it quite open. Many devout Jews and Christians, even evangelicals, believe in evolution, just not Biblical literalists.


Evolutionary theory shapes and informs the ecological sciences that are the very basis for our environmental laws and policies. The emerging, European-led global movement -- so far lacking U.S. participation -- that aims to deal with global climate chaos and restore the earth's vital operating systems is premised on understandings gained through the evolutionary sciences. Cast doubt on those sciences and you undermine the basis for changes that are urgently needed.


The Creationist campaign means to dumb-down and confuse our kids by pushing the evolutionary sciences off the educational stage. America's Taliban want to make room for Creationism's dull sister, Intelligent Design, in order to undermine the emerging environmental consensus that is our best hope for a sustainable future. According to that consensus, we humans are embedded in natural systems that are in crisis; our well-being, even our survival, depends on the vitality of those systems.


Kiss the Polar Bear Goodbye




So how does all this translate into actual behavior? As governor, Sarah Palin recently sued the Interior Department to keep the polar bear -- the iconic symbol of her state -- from being listed as a threatened species under the provisions of the Endangered Species Act. Additional protections, she argued, might inhibit oil and gas drilling and pipeline construction in the region.


The Endangered Species Act is a favorite target of the religious right since they are convinced it elevates lowly creatures to, or above, the status of human beings. They see "charismatic carnivores" and other protected species as the means used by conservationists to pursue broader protections for whole ecosystems. And that's true enough, in that "keystone species" like the polar bear regulate a wide network of relationships within a whole ecosystem. Those bears, for example, keep a lid on seal populations that could otherwise devastate fish populations and skew the arctic food web. Numerous animal and bird species depend on scavenging bear kills for food. But without reference to ecological science, the role of a keystone species and the value of biodiversity itself are hard to appreciate.


Palin, of course, also wants to drill for oil in the ecologically fragile Arctic National Wildlife Refuge and has expressed her hope that she can convince McCain to abandon his opposition to it. She is an active promoter of Alaska's aerial hunting program where wolves and bears (again, keystone species) are shot from the air or chased until exhausted, after which the pilot lands the plane and a gunner can shoot them point blank. She tried to raise the bounty on wolves to encourage more killing and strongly opposed a ballot initiative to end the aerial hunting program. In the Lower 48, we learned the hard way that eliminating top predators upsets a chain of relationships in their ecosystems. No wolves in Yellowstone meant big, lazy herds of elk trashing streams, driving away beavers, and thus eliminating the wetlands that beavers create -- a cascade of unintended, harmful consequences. That's why naturalists are reintroducing wolves in parts of the West, and health is returning to the land with them. Under Palin, Alaska is going to relive our old mistakes at a time when Alaskans -- and humanity -- can ill afford it.


The Carbon Queen




Even in Alaska, known oil reserves are dropping. Nonetheless, Palin is determined above all else to keep the current flow of energy moving, explore and develop new oil fields, and ramp up natural gas and coal production. She gave special permission to Chevron to triple the toxic waste it can pour into the waters of the Cook Inlet, despite scientific research concluding that the Beluga whale population there is endangered. She has refused to pressure Exxon to pay-up for damages caused by the infamous Exxon-Valdez oil spill. She has supported virtually every mining proposal that has landed on her desk, including one for a vast gold mine in the Bristol Bay watershed that would risk the world's largest run of sockeye salmon. She favors open-cast mining for coal in the pristine Brooks Range. She has refused to enhance safety measures for trans-Pacific shipping along the Alaskan coast. All that and she's been governor for barely two years!


Her deplorable environmental record was such common knowledge that John McCain couldn't have missed it, even if he napped through his vetting committee's report.


So if the McCain/Palin ticket is elected, you should know what to expect. Although John McCain may once have openly refused to subscribe to the beliefs of the Republican Party's religious right, famously describing them as "agents of intolerance," his selection of Sarah Palin is a message (and not just to the Party's fundamentalist right): If you thought that he understands the need to kick our fossil-fuel addiction and address global warming, if you believed his promises to build a green economy, forget about it. A McCain/Palin administration, just like the one before it, will continue -- and this is the best-case scenario -- to fiddle while the planet burns.


Driving Into the Future Without a Map


Ed Kalnins is Sarah Palin's former pastor at the Wasilla Assembly of God Church which she attended for 26 years. He sees powerful signs that the end of the world is drawing nigh and assured a London Times reporter that Biblical scripture specifically mentions shortages of oil and wars for its control. When the end comes, he expects to be "raptured" with other righteous Christians and spared the suffering of those of us who will be left behind. He believes the apocalyptic destruction of our planet will happen in his own lifetime; in fact, that is exactly the future he hopes for. He has urged his congregation to make ready a "refuge" for good Christians fleeing northward in "the Last Days." Although Kalnin's orientation may seem -- to be polite -- extreme, it is typical enough of those who push a Creationist agenda. And it's a perspective Sarah Palin knows well, having spent a lifetime in Kalnin's Pentecostal church, and even now, she is in no hurry to disown it.


We need environmental science in our schools more than ever. An ecologically illiterate generation of students will be ill-prepared to meet our real, less than rapturous future. They won't have a clue about what's happening around them or how to deal with the damage we've done. They won't be able to create new technologies that mimic nature's models for recycling waste and energy. They will drive blindly into the future, burning fossil fuels, without a map they can read. They may even let the Ed Kalnins of our world take the wheel.


The Evolution vs. Creationism debate appears to be an argument over the distant past. But it's actually about the future. It's about, in fact, who will define the cultural mindset that will generate that future. Let us pray it is not defined by a pit bull with lipstick who thinks she is "tasked by God" to drill for oil.


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See more stories tagged with: science, creationism, election 2008, sarah palin

Chip Ward is a former public library administrator in Utah, where the separation of church and state is always unclear. As a grassroots activist, he led several successful campaigns to make polluters accountable. He wrote about his various political adventures in Canaries on the Rim and Hope's Horizon.

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Driving Down the Road to Ruin in a Pickup Truck
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Sep 22, 2008 12:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sure, she's an ignorant, intellectually deficient, narcissistic, devious, petty, vengeful religious fanatic. That's why McCain picked her. She shares those characteristics with Bush, and the folks who have rallied to her also think Bush has done a superb job and that everything is just fine in the US of A. They supported every item of Bush's agenda and are, in fact, the ones that voted us onto the road to ruin.

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How Obama can defeat McCain without attacking Palin
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 22, 2008 1:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sarah Palin is not McCain's Achilles heel. His weakness is old age.

In an article published in June 2008 by Military.com, former POW Phillip Butler, a Navy pilot and U.S. Naval Academy graduate who spent more than eight years in North Vietnam as a prisoner of war, explained why he would not support McCain for the presidency.

"Most of us who survived that experience [being a POW] are now in our late 60’s and 70’s. Sadly, we have died and are dying off at a greater rate than our non-POW contemporaries. We experienced injuries and malnutrition that are coming home to roost. So I believe John’s age (71) and survival expectation are not good for being elected to serve as our President for four or more years."

There are many Republicans who share Butler's concerns, as do white Democrats who won't vote for Obama because he's black. But no matter how well he argues his case, those people will NEVER support him. So Barack must get them to vote AGAINST McCain or not vote at all.

That goal can be accomplished with a simple slogan: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions."

Notice I never mentioned his age (72), but the message comes through loud and clear. And should the GOP complain about the inference, it will only bolster suspicions that McCain's best days are behind him.

If you agree with my assessment, tell your friends and family members while there's still time to defeat McCain -- a pandering politician who truly has old ideas, old solutions.

John McCain --OLD ideas, OLD solutions

One more thing, If you think the slogan would be effective, contact the Democratic National Committee with this link -- Contact DNC -- then copy & paste the bold text below into the Question box. NOTE: the link works slowly.

To help Senator Obama win in November, please use the following slogan in his TV ads: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions"

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bobxxxx
Posted by: bobxxxx on Sep 22, 2008 1:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chip Ward, thanks for your excellent article. I think most people don't worry about the environment too much, but nothing could be more important when choosing a president and vice-president. Sarah Palin is a very likable person, but she would be a disaster for the environment. She obviously doesn't care about endangered species. A vice-president Palin would also be a disaster for scientific progress. She's a creationist so she is more likely to attack science education than support it. Not to worry, the election will be close but Obama should win.

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» How you make me cringe! Posted by: thinks4herself2008
» RE: How you make me cringe! Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Dumb. Posted by: tmaccabe
» RE: How you make me cringe! Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: How you make me cringe! Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: How you make me cringe! Posted by: Lilykins
» I Cringe to think she'll Win Posted by: stellamojo
» RE: bobxxxx Posted by: boing007
» RE: bobxxxx Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: bobxxxx Posted by: blitzmesser
She doesn't matter
Posted by: weathered on Sep 22, 2008 3:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
she never did. But she did serve her purpose - she was an effective distraction.

Pull the plug on All MSM

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Former?
Posted by: rajuncajun1960 on Sep 22, 2008 4:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So what does Chip do now? That monicker of "former library administrator" just impresses the hell out of me. I'm sure that former position qualifies you as a guru.

Everything I read on this site is just nothing but a shredding session. When is someone going to come up with somthing positive to say about their candidate.

It probably wont happen, because they both suck. But you know you cant win on your own guys achievments or capabilities. The only way to win, is to scare the other side enough to NOT vote for the other guy. This whole election is "the lesser of the two evils".

I going to write in my dad for president. He is smarter and has more wisdom than all you jackasses put together. If a former librarian can wrtie an article, my dad the auto mechanic can be the president.

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» RE: Former? Posted by: tmaccabe
» RE: Former? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Former? Posted by: tmaccabe
» RE: Former? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Former? Posted by: kid5rivers
» RE: Former? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» This isn't Obama.com Posted by: bizeeb
» RE: This isn't Obama.com Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: This isn't Obama.com Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: This isn't Obama.com Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Former? Posted by: offplanet
» RE: Former? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Former? Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: Former? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: "Only pussies use spell check"? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» Good. Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Good. Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» Whatever Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Whatever Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Good. Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Former? Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: Former? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: Former? Posted by: blitzmesser
ambrclaire
Posted by: ambrclaire on Sep 22, 2008 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wasn't her father a science teacher? what kind of science was he teaching and didn't he teach her? it's all bizarre..but the author is right...if you are focused on "heaven" why worry about "earth"..

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» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: KteeMac
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: Thucy
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: KteeMac
» ambrconfused Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ambrconfused Posted by: Thucy
» RE: ambrconfused Posted by: KteeMac
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: akbirdwm
» RE: ambrclaire - WHOOOAA!! Posted by: blurider
» RE: ambrclaire - WHOOOAA!! Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ambrclaire - WHOOOAA!! Posted by: KteeMac
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: ambrclaire- YOUR UNCLE?? Posted by: blurider
» RE: ambrclaire- YOUR UNCLE?? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: ambrclaire- YOUR UNCLE?? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: ambrclaire- YOUR UNCLE?? Posted by: KteeMac
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: catherinep
» RE: ambrclaire Posted by: KteeMac
Don't address Palin's positions?
Posted by: deb.dellapiana on Sep 22, 2008 4:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I agree that John McCain (and his age) is the main issue in this election. I would never vote for McCain even if he had picked a reasonable running mate, simply because he has NEVER been a 'maverick reformer.' I've been in advertising for 30 years; I know what that is all about.

However, not addressing Palin's positions and lunacy will just leave her as the American public sees her: As a breath of fresh air. She is anything but. She's a dangerous No. 2, particularly if Mr. McCain is in the twilight of his life. She cannot and must not be ignored.

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Atheists
Posted by: trel on Sep 22, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You Atheists worry too much.

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» RE: Atheists Posted by: just john
» Who would Jesus vote for? Posted by: tmaccabe
» RE: Who would Jesus vote for? Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» They don't Posted by: EinMD
» RE: Atheists Posted by: tmaccabe
» RE: Atheists Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
Utah's 9 Mile Canyon Destructive LIE!
Posted by: Purple Girl on Sep 22, 2008 4:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's another Doozy..Utah has ancient drawings with in 9 mile Canyon. According to the NaturalGas corp trying to seize this deposit "there is enough Natural Gas to Heat 60% of the homes in Utah for 10 yrs"
Do they think we all failed Math? No , but it sounds better then saying
1) this deposit will provide enough energy to heat ALL the homes in Utah for ONLY 5 yrs
Or
2)This deposit will be a spit in the Nations energy supply about a Month
or and More Acurately
3) This Deposit will Provide the World with energy for 5 Minutes
The Energy from this Deposit will be thrown into the global mix and amount to NOTHING- Except Profits for this Corp.But in the mean time the Carbon deposits Left by the process and the multiple vehicles used to transport this Gas will have defaced these Ancient Drawings- thus Elimiating a natural found History book to Our nations past!
But of course what would Corps and Morons care about indiginous Ancient Art???
Shit these Corps would deface the Great Pyramids in Eygpt just to make another Buck

UNTIL WE SEIZE BACK OUR ENERGY AS A NATIONALLY OWNED RESOURCE WE WILL NEVER BE ENERGY INDEPENDENT!

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Please, SOMEBODY ask Palin this in her debate!
Posted by: just john on Sep 22, 2008 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is petroleum, and how do oil companies know where to look for it?

It's only the product that her state's economy is based on.

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» Hypocrisy saves lives! Posted by: just john
» RE: Hypocrisy saves lives! Posted by: bornxeyed
» dont forget welfare!! Posted by: Marlena
Why does this pious Pentecostal woman show leg in every photo?
Posted by: Jasonix on Sep 22, 2008 5:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every time I've seen Sarah Palin, she's wearing a skirt that rides up far above her knee. Why can't this community-college wash-out wear a pants-suit like Hillary Clinton? I doubt that her wardrobe is simply a matter of personal taste, either, but a deliberate choice to appeal to a lower class of person. (It's not so much that this middle-aged mother of 5 is attractive as it is that she's trying to appeal to people who are proud of their own vulgarity.)

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what world anyway?
Posted by: chloelin on Sep 22, 2008 5:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't see the conflict. If you believe God made the world, then evolution is simply how he made the world. Of course, being a Buddhist, I'm above all that.

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» RE: what world anyway? Posted by: deb.dellapiana
» Buddha.... Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: what world anyway? Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: what world anyway? Posted by: Redphilly
» RE: what world anyway? Posted by: Fencerider
» which book? Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: which book? Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: what world anyway? Posted by: Lilykins
» RE: what world anyway? Posted by: Boyde
Prof.
Posted by: geometeer on Sep 22, 2008 5:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush regime "has been on a holy war against nature": surely the term is War on Terra?

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» RE: Prof. Posted by: tmaccabe
» RE: Prof. Posted by: bobtr900
» RE: Prof. Posted by: GeorgiaBlue
A feminist’s argument for McCain’s VP
Posted by: Zac on Sep 22, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Feminist hypocrisy exposed.....

Palin’s candidacy brings both figurative and literal feminist change. The simple act of thinking outside the liberal box, which has insisted for generations that only liberals and Democrats can be trusted on issues of import to women, is the political equivalent of a nuclear explosion.

It should be no surprise that the Democratic response to the McCain-Palin ticket was to immediately attack by playing the liberal trump card that keeps Democrats in line - the abortion card - where the party daily tells restless feminists the other side is going to police their wombs.

The power of that accusation is interesting, coming from the Democrats - a group that just told the world that if you have ovaries, then you don’t count.

A feminist’s argument for McCain’s VP

To the author and the readers who blame religion and Christianity, this will drive home the much needed sense to your brains. Now get ready with your logic, reasoning and science.

In the name of creating their version of a religion-free utopia, Adolf Hitler, Joseph Stalin, and Mao Zedong produced the kind of mass slaughter that no Inquisitor could possibly match. Collectively these atheist tyrants murdered more than 100 million people.

Whatever the motives for atheist bloodthirstiness, the indisputable fact is that all the religions of the world put together have in 2,000 years not managed to kill as many people as have been killed in the name of atheism in the past few decades.

It’s time to abandon the mindlessly repeated mantra that religious belief has been the greatest source of human conflict and violence.

Atheism, not religion, is the real force behind the mass murders of history.

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» Dihydrogen Monoxide Posted by: EinMD
» Dinesh D’Souza follower = brainwashed Posted by: countingdaisies
Biblical Literalism = Biblical Illiteracy
Posted by: hermidog on Sep 22, 2008 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bible contradicts itself in hundreds of places. One example: In Matthew and Mark, BOTH THIEVES AT THE CRUCIFIXION REVILE JESUS UNTO THEIR OWN DEATHS - but in LUKE, one of the thieves asks Jesus to remember him in Paradise. (And isn't the crucifixion just about the most important event in the New Testament?) -- so WHY the contradition? There are excellent reasons, but they require open-minded intelligence and respect for the Biblical text to understand. No respectful reader of the Bible would say he/she "believes every word is literally true" - unless they haven't read it, of course.

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» Why are fundies history illiterate? Posted by: ReallyBearish
Sarah Palin and the Sham of Feminism
Posted by: Zac on Sep 22, 2008 6:02 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to Rasmussen Reports, “she (Sarah Palin) earns positive reviews from 65% of men and 52% of women.”

If over half of American women approve of her then how can feminists continue with the ruse that their incoherent discourse reflects the interests of 51 percent of the population? They do so because it is their nature. If they dropped the pretense of feminism and “women” being one, they would find themselves devoid of funding and legislative support. For those fortunate enough to be ignorant of their ways, that parasitical movement and its “there ought to be a law” mentality have markedly decreased our constitutional freedoms over the past four decades.

That is why to Kim Gandy Governor Palin can never be the “right woman,” as she is a woman of the right. NOW’s stance, just like those of their socialist conspecifics, exposes the lie that is radical feminism, as feminism is not about women — it’s about leftism. Feminists accrued influence by pretending to be “women’s groups,” but their positions never were indicative of the preferences of your average woman. Their advocates are leftists first, and women somewhere down the road.

feminists4sarahpalin.wordpress.com

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» This might be..... Posted by: Fencerider
Like Texas, Like Alaska, oil oil oil !
Posted by: GrantBurkeVT on Sep 22, 2008 6:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And that's all that drives the economy of those two states. Ever since 1980, the Republicans would have an oily pol either as president or vice president. Ironically, the Democrats never choose candidates from oily states. Let's all focus on getting Obama/Biden to the White House so we can slow down this oil madness already !

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» RE: Like Texas Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Like Texas Posted by: rajuncajun1960
More on Palin, dinosaurs, and how to respond
Posted by: tmaccabe on Sep 22, 2008 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Following Tina Fey's hilarious impersonation, I just had to check this out: Did Sarah Palin really say that dinosaurs existed 4000 years ago? The 3rd party remarks sited here-in sound very plausible for a Pentecostal, and very scary from a potential president.

If people can openly support such foolishness, why is it so taboo to openly ridicule it? To save our youth and this country from future presidency’s like this, do we have to stoop so low? Is it time for us to openly ridicule those who live in and preach fantasy?

I’m all for respecting people’s right to religious freedom (it goes hand-in-hand with the separation of church and state), but when they claim this is a Christian nation, hi-jack national treasures such as the 'Statue of Liberty' by building offenses like the 'Statue of Liberation thru Christ', and place myth on a level with science, shouldn’t we call a spade a spade? Don’t we owe it to our children to ensure that reason pervades?

Put two people on street corners with signs, one announces the end of days, and the other supports the separation of church and state. Which would be called offensive, openly? Which is more conservative? Which is a nut job? Which would be left alone, unmolested?

We can’t allow this election to devolve into another culture war about abortion, guns, and creationism; that’s how Bush got elected, and it will work for McCain-Palin too, even though everyone knows there are bigger issues (or should). It’s weird though, because McCain didn’t need any more right-wingers. He needed the independent centrists. What’s his game then, if not to ignite the culture war?

Are the Neo Cons looking to bring out the far left to make Obama and progressives look bad? It’s the same game that Bin-Laden’s played. By getting Bush to over react to 9/11 (by invading Iraq, our privacy, and supporting torture and rendition), America now looks bad, and we are weaker as a nation too.

So, do we openly attack outrageous beliefs, or do we politely ignore them, live with them, and eventually under them?

It struck me that Christopher Hitchens would have asked this, and look what I found:

The Best Woman? Don’t Patronize Sarah Palin

What’s that about glass houses?

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» open ridicule Posted by: akbirdwm
» RE: open ridicule Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: open ridicule Posted by: tmaccabe
REFERENDUM - 14 QUESTIONS TO FIND OUT WHAT SECULARISM/ATHEISM HAS GOT TO OFFER OUR SOCIETY
Posted by: Zac on Sep 22, 2008 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To many secularists/Atheists religion is a threat to “Society”. For the past hundreds of years religion has been blamed for every fault and every evil under the sun. So thats not new and no surprises there. However it is time to find out what the alternative is and what it has got to offer to the society. Let’s work this out based on facts, history, research from leading authority on secularim/Atheism etc.

REFERENDUM - 14 QUESTIONS TO FIND OUT WHAT SECULARISM/ATHEISM HAS GOT TO OFFER OUR SOCIETY AND IF IT WILL SOLVE ANY OF OUR PROBLEMS?

I think a “referendum” is the way to go.

I have come up with14 questions for the referendum. You see people have to exercise their will - democracy. Let’s start:

Turkish authorities have detained at least 21 hardline nationalists, including two prominent retired generals, in a widening police investigation into a suspected coup plot.
Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan said the detentions were linked to the investigation into Ergenekon, a shadowy hardline secularist group suspected of planning bombings and assassinations calculated to trigger an army takeover.

“It is not the AK party they cannot tolerate - what they can’t tolerate is democracy, the national will, the people’s feelings and thoughts,” Mr Erdogan said

Ref: Turkey rounds up secularists over coup claim, The Australian

Question #1 Do you agree secularists can’t tolerate democracy? Yes or No

Is “secularism” a threat to democracy? If it means intolerance of religion, perhaps it is.

Ref: Tony Abbott, Australian Federal Politician, Daily Telegraph, live blog, 25 July 08

Question #2. Do you agree secular intolerance of religion is a threat to democracy? Yes or No

Yet it (World Youth Day - WYD) is resisted by many who seek a radical change in the status quo. They represent an aggressive “new secularism”, a philosophy much discussed by Benedict, that aspires to deny religion by shrinking it to a strictly private affair. In terms of governance, such advocates want not a traditional secular state to enshrine religious freedom, but the creation of atheism as the de facto established religion to drive real religion from the public domain.

This constitutes one of the most radical and intolerant projects in Australian political history.

Ref: Test of Spirit, The Australian

Question #3. Do you agree “secularists/Atheists” are the most intolerant people in society? Yes or No

And

Question #4. Do you favour the separation of Atheism* and State? Yes or No

* Update July, 30, 2008 - link to Atheist Beliefs.

Democracy - political system in which the people rule through any form of government in which the law must reflect the will of the people not rule of any God which is a private matter.

Ref: Comment: Rick of Sydney, Monsters deserving justice, Piers Akerman, Daily Telegraph, Australia, Wednesday, July 23, 2008

Premise

However the will of the people is informed by God. If democracy is the will of the people then how can this be a private matter? The whole idea of democracy is self defeating and self destructive. This is not freedom. This is Atheistic tyranny.

Question #5. Do you agree with this premise? Yes or No

Continued

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» Feel sorry Posted by: EinMD
» Zac is Whack..... Posted by: Fencerider
Yeah Right
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Sep 22, 2008 6:27 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
LOL, I find it very hard to believe that anyone with a single ounce of common sense would be taking McBush/Palin seriously. I mean really, think about it. Pretty much everything out of McBushes mouth is either made up as he goes along OR an outright lie. We have had to deal with that mentality for the last either years, can we really afford another four years of lies?

JIff
Ultimate Anonymity

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» RE: Yeah Right Posted by: Pax99
doomsday clock/ waiting on the rapture
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Sep 22, 2008 6:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
these folks are intentionally trying to bring on the rapture, let's not forget that. genocide, ecocide, etc...and their jeezus will come back and fly them away. they want destruction and devastation.
terrifying these folks are in power.

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» first class anti-christ... Posted by: veggiegrrrl
CEO
Posted by: senatorbill on Sep 22, 2008 6:48 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people have forgotten long ago that God was invented by man when he couldn't fathom who he was or where the world came from. Not the other way around. They were so clever that they created institutions to petrify the fiction they had created. The institutions are called organized religion and all such religious institutions are what I would call theohegemons. Communism fits in there too. They all inculcate blind dogmatic unthinking obedience. Everything that is unfathomable is attributable to "God" even the recent Wall Street debacle should be attributed to "God" and now comes along another Mesiah to capitalize on this and attach his wagon to "God". No its not Sarah Pallin who is pretty up front about her beliefs. Lets all support the new church of "Obamaism" and blindly follow his dogma. "I believe in Obama the only begotten son of God... His deification at the Democratic National Convention made me puke.

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» Go ahead.... Posted by: Fencerider
Desperate Times, Desperate Measures
Posted by: Zac on Sep 22, 2008 6:59 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With less than six weeks to go until the 2008 General Election, it is increasingly evident that Democrats are growing desperate. If America truly desired Obama’s brand of change, he would have left John McCain in the dust long ago, but they’re still locked in a statistical tie. Democrats were caught off guard and were completely blindsided by the McCain campaign’s brilliant choice of Sarah Palin to fill the Republican ticket and they have struggled to maintain their momentum ever since. In recent weeks, the Obama campaign and their supporters have found it necessary to resort to pure lowbrow tactics and vicious personal attacks in order to try and mislead people into voting for him.

A recent analysis by the University of Wisonsin shows that seventy seven percent of Obama’s recent ads are characterized as negative, compared to McCain’s fifty six percent. I guess when your ideology is morally bankrupt or your basic arguments are intellectually inferior, that’s the kind of foolishness you have to engage in.

Desperate Times, Desperate Measures

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Sarah Palin
Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 22, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the current issue of Sojourners, a progressive Christian periodical on the religious Left, Reverend Jim Wallis quotes John McCain (on the anniversary of Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s assassination) as having said:

"Some people lament privately, others are brave enough to take their call for change into the public arena. Martin Luther King III (is)...insisting that our nation's next leader do something about...poverty...I will answer his call, and tell him and the American people today that I will make the eradication of poverty a top priority of the McCain administration."

That issue of Sojourners interviews both John Edwards and Mike Huckabee on eradicating poverty, and quotes Huckabee as saying, "I'm a conservative but I'm not a nut. If my choice is a government program or a hungry kid, then give me the government program."

Huckabee says:

"One of the things I'm frustrated about is that Republicans have been infiltrated by hardcore libertarians. Traditional Republicans don''t hate all forms of government. They just want it to be efficient and effective. They recognize that it has a place and a role. Growing numbers of people in the Republican party are just short of anarchists in the sense that they basically say: 'Just cut government and cut taxes.' They don't understand that if you do that, there are certain consequences that do not help problems. It exacerbates them."

Jim Wallis reports that Huckabee told a "values voter" gathering in 2007, "I do not spell G-O-D...G-O-P."

However, it appears to be business as usual in the GOP. Rodger Schlickeisen, president of Defenders of Wildlife Action Fund, says:

“Senator McCain’s choice for a running mate is beyond belief. By choosing Sarah Palin, McCain has clearly made a decision to continue the Bush legacy of destructive environmental policies.

“Sarah Palin, whose husband works for BP, has repeatedly put special interests first when it comes to the environment. In her scant two years as governor, she has lobbied aggressively to open up the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge to drilling, pushed for more drilling off of Alaska’s coasts, and put special interests above science. Ms. Palin has made it clear through her actions that she is unwilling to do even as much as the Bush administration to address the impacts of global warming. Her most recent effort has been to sue the U.S. Fish and Wildlife Service to remove the polar bear from the endangered species list, putting Big Oil before sound science. As unbelievable as this may sound, this actually puts her to the right of the Bush administration.

“This is Senator McCain’s first significant choice in building his executive team and it’s a bad one. It has to raise serious doubts in the minds of voters about John McCain’s commitment to conservation, to addressing the impacts of global warming and to ensuring our country ends its dependency on oil.”

In the early '90s, George Bush Sr. referred to environmentalists as "the spotted owl crowd," thus indicating Republicans don't understand environmentalism. "And (yet) they call themselves 'pro-life'," mused Fox News' token liberal commentator Alan Colmes a few years ago.

I am disheartened by Sarah Palin's record on the environment, endangered species, and ties to Big Oil, but not surprised. She is, after all, a conservative, running for VP on a Republican ticket.

To her credit, Sarah Palin belongs to Feminists For Life, which is both pro-woman AND pro-life. Feminists For Life was founded in 1972, when the National Organization for Women (NOW) expelled all its pro-life members, in order to stifle dissent on the abortion issue.

I wish we pro-life Dems (a political minority) had the kind of visibility within our own Party that pro-choice Republicans (also a minority) have in theirs.

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» Very well written piece.... Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Very well written piece.... Posted by: rajuncajun1960
Media Bias and Manipulation
Posted by: Zac on Sep 22, 2008 7:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The bombastic nature of Charles Gibson’s line of questioning when he asked Sarah Palin about the Bush Doctrine was completely out of line. A doctrine is a set of principles, not a single idea.The Bush Doctrine is a liberal contrivance; a slur; a label attached to certain ideas adopted by President Bush to fight terror, much like they jawbone about the “Bush tax cuts”. There is nothing published called the Bush Doctrine. It is whatever liberals decide it to be. But for argument’s sake, I think we can agree that the term refers to our policies towards terrorists and the countries that support them, primarily in the area of military preemption. Therefore, The Patriot Act and related eavesdropping laws, the international laws concerning the freezing of terrorist finances, nuclear proliferation, preemption, extrajudicial rendition, torture, Guantanamo Bay detention and military tribunals are all topics that would be considered part and parcel of the Bush Doctrine. There are many people, including Republicans who don’t agree with President Bush on every aspect of our solution to the problem of terrorism. Sarah Palin was entirely correct in asking for clarification of what Gibson was specifically asking, yet liberals led by Gibson relentlessly attacked her with their usual intellectual dishonesty.

Media Bias and Manipulation

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» Rightwing RUBBISH ! Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» RE: ightwing RUBBISH ! Posted by: Zac
» RE: ightwing RUBBISH ! Posted by: GrantBurkeVT
» Lookey here: Posted by: Fencerider
» RE: Media Bias and Manipulation Posted by: offplanet
The Real Barack Obama
Posted by: Zac on Sep 22, 2008 7:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
X-POLYGAMIST WIFE in ARIZONA
Posted by: X-POLYGAMIST WIFE on Sep 22, 2008 7:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1999 polygamist profit Warren Jeffs told his followers to max out their credit cards and loans because the world was coming to an end in 2000 and they wouldn't have to pay it back.

FLDS polygamists bankrupted the Ephraim Bank in Colorado City, Arizona and it cost taxpayers 13 million.

WAKE UP AMERICA!

http://www.bankingonheaven.com

BANKING ON HEAVEN

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bear background in picture--gives me the CREEPS!
Posted by: zooeyhall on Sep 22, 2008 8:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't know if that "Bear" rug (or whatever) in the background to the picture accompanying this article is real or not--

anyway, I have always thought that those "rugs" or "throws" that are either a bear or tiger really give me the creeps.

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Palin has the Democrats in a panic
Posted by: lindat on Sep 22, 2008 8:07 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and just when we thought we had the election wrapped up.

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» I nominate Posted by: EinMD
This is very mysterious:
Posted by: Fencerider on Sep 22, 2008 8:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How this never got wheels in the media, I do not know. Check it out though, fascinating take on the local Alaskan's perspective of Palin.

http://www.snopes.com/politics/palin/rally.asp

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olestormy
Posted by: olestormy on Sep 22, 2008 8:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe most will agree that this national election is the most important to our country in recent history. It most certainly is for me, and I am 81 years old.
I personally see this as a contest between the two men running for President; although the Vice Presidential candidates do effect the way I see the country going.
One of the presidential candidates has worked his way to a great education through hard work. The other candidate was put in a special high school in order to get a high school diploma. He did poorly. Because of family influence, he was given an appointment to Annapolis ahead of much more deserving young men. He finished fifth from the bottom in his class and showed a minimum of leadership skills. Because of family influence he gets into the pilot training program ahead of more deserving young men. He does poorly, crashes one plane and still graduates. He crashes two more planes, (probably pilot error) and still gets promoted ahead of others in his Annapolis class.
One of the candidates has been married and faithful to the same women since they first walked down the aisle; the other admits to many affairs and divorced an ailing wife to marry another women.
The winner of this election will have a chance to take America into the 21st century; through logic and reason.
If the evangelical right manage to elect the pampered Navy retiree; we can expect our education system to fall behind the rest of the world. Logic and reason can move us ahead. The evangelicals cannot see beyond their faith. Faith and truth are not compatible.
The advances in science in the next four years is going to be truly amazing.
I can only see our country leading the way if we elect the young man who worked for everything; to get to where he is today.

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» RE: olestormy Posted by: babs
» RE: olestormy Posted by: oldurn
» RE: olestormy Posted by: rajuncajun1960
» RE: olestormy Posted by: tmaccabe
Puppet palin
Posted by: solrev on Sep 22, 2008 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would be real worried if I were McCain. If elected, someone might help his old age take him out of this creation. It is puppet palin they want. She basically buys into their rhetoric and her greed for power makes her easy to control.

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The new rat in town...
Posted by: AnIndependentThinker on Sep 22, 2008 8:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have never in my life seen a more power-hungry, egomaniacal, ill-informed, radical fundamentalist terrorist than Scary Sarah. Any human being, who shares this woman's values is equally as crazy as she is.

Just assuming that McPain would be like Bush is NOT enough. Scary Sarah makes Dick Cheney look like Mahatma Gandhi. This is an individual, who will stop at nothing to get what she wants. Whether that means killing innocent animals, raping our environment, destroying womens' rights, teaching fundamental radicalism to young children, and lying, cheating, and stealing in the name of power, I promise you -- she will do it.

No wonder McPain picked her. He knows he's got one foot in the coffin and had to find someone even more devious and insane than the current leadership. God help us all if these true "evil-doers" are elected. Period.

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Sarah Palin; Science or Survival of the Fittest
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on Sep 22, 2008 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dearest Chip Ward . . .

I greatly appreciate the depth of this tome! Your references were excellent. I admire your ability to interweave the threads in this theme, Sara Palin's Creationism Will Rape the Environment. This is an excellent essay.

I too have been on a Palin tear; she terrifies me. The more I learn of her faith, the more I tremble. Since her earliest childhood, she has been indoctrinated into a theological study that separates man from nature. To say man has dominion is to deny that we are creatures dependent on the environment. I thank you for this thought . . .
"Evolutionary theory does not preclude God. It uncovers the how of life, but leaves the why of it quite open. Many devout Jews and Christians, even evangelicals, believe in evolution, just not Biblical literalists."

I too am concerned that many think the topic merely a sidebar. For a long time, in Kansas, a majority of members within the State School Board long advocated for a creationist curriculum. While finally, this decision was overturned in 2006, there is still reason for reflection. Forty-five out of every hundred Bush backers think that evolution need not be taught. However, creationism must be part of the curriculum. Evolutionary Biology Lost By Design; Scientific-Creationism Rises?
That is a large portion of the population. I suspect these same persons and more now plan to cast a ballot for Sarah Palin. The Alaskan Governor has energized the base. Enthusiasm for the Chief Executive of this far northern State is vast. As we ponder the health of John McCain, we cannot dismiss the possibility Palin could be President. Certainly, even as a Vice President she has shown us, she will be powerful.

As I ruminate on her record, I realize she might be the Darth Vader Dick Cheney was not, if that is possible. Sarah Palin is stealth and strong!

I invite your review and reflections. I offer the reasons I fear . . .
Sarah Palin; Science or Survival of the Fittest
Palin On Fire
Sarah Palin; Wrong Woman, Woeful Record
Say Nothing. Know Nothing
To Vet or Not to Vet; That is the Sarah Palin Question
Full of Gas

Betsy L. Angert
BeThink.org

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We are the earth!
Posted by: sirios on Sep 22, 2008 9:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Palin and even the ones who critisize her, for good reason, continue to amaze me in that they see the environment as something seperate from themselves. We , our bodies are comprised of the very elements that make up the earth. Lack of proper minerals= illness, lack of clean water==illness, lack of clean air= illness or DEATH. WE ARE COMPLETELY DEPENDENT ON THE PLANET FOR OUR QUALITY OF LIFE AND OUR VERY EXISTENCE. Any marginalizing of this fact is slow suicide. Many tribal ,not all, cultures realized this fact without any fancy scientific studies. Part of the problem in this country is and has been the christian teaching [ misinterpretation], that man has dominion over nature. this is a message of arrogant superiority that causes a physchlogical seperation between man and nature and results in rampant abuse of the natural world.I could go on but no amount of verbal explanation will suffice, until a direct realization of the above facts is directly experienced. If we elect Mac and his raging b#%&h then the remaining ecosystems on this planet are kaputt and us along with them!

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She's a freaking republican....nuff said!!!
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Sep 22, 2008 9:54 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not just Palin but her entire ilk of supporters that believe we're meant,by Divine Right,to scower this planet clean of all it's resources. Even at the expense of our future Grandchildren so they can make lots of money now. How much more proof do we need that these assholes are unfit for politics,much less anything higher than city street sweeper.
Vote outside the system and we can all truly live and so can the children of the future.
Write-in Jeffrey7 for Prez

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Vote absentee
Posted by: tulugaq on Sep 22, 2008 10:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In most states, there's still time to request an absentee ballot. By definition, this is a paper ballot; even if ballots are counted by a lyin', cheatin' machine, there's a paper trail for a recount.

Vote absentee this November!

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Am I Wasting My Vote?
Posted by: wormfarmer on Sep 22, 2008 10:10 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Am I wasting my vote?

If you ask yourself this question, as I have, then an examination of the reasons for
our involvement in the political process is in order. Like most Americans, I matured during the past thirty years being a protester against unjust wars, being aware of the military industrial complex Dwight Eisenhower warned of in his farewell address in 1961.
But his warnings were and are overshadowed by our current and evolving crises. The combined weight of these concerns have distracted us from the true calling of , “The Will of the People”, drawing our attention from the intended purpose of our constitution, our, “inalienable rights”, the blind pursuit of the good life, which has diverted our collective attention from the basic duty of stewards of our environment, the succeeding generations, the comfort and survival of our home, of our planet. The argument continues, but don’t kid yourself, global warming is real, it is , at the very least, influenced by man.
We need to consider the path being followed, the price of distraction, the
consequence we are being faced with. I realize the tone of this comment is supposed to be
primarily political, but it is much broader than that. We are approaching the point that if
we allow business as usual to continue, we are rolling the dice, and risking our future.
The political process of our country is one place to start, our involvement in world
affairs, the corporate influence and control that seems to be directing our path, which I
hope, will change. The pursuit of individual fame and fortune can’t continue, the millions
of dollars that it takes to gain political office is funded by corporate means, and if
corporate funds are accepted, strings ARE attached.
My point is this; when we truly tire of manipulation, political or corporate, tire of
our faux democracy, tire of the two party lock on our choices, tire of the wallet gouging
by greedy businesses, tire of the relentless bickering by a public in denial that searches for a scapegoat, achieve enlightenment and then vote our conscience, act on our sense of just
and fair social behavior, then we will be voters, not politicians.
Until then, I hope we don’t turn a blind eye and vote for McPalin or O’Biden, and
Vote Sanity, Vote Nader.

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» sadly, yes Posted by: whathappened
» RE: Am I Wasting My Vote? Posted by: Pax99
Neandertals and Modern Man Existed at the Same Time
Posted by: edgar_michel on Sep 22, 2008 10:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Chip doesn't know evolution very well himself as is eveidnt in the way he presents the chronology of the assent of human kind in his essay. It would be much better if writers knew their subject matter before they write so they can educate their readers in the process.

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All religions are crap. Reading bullshit penned by men who believed god or gods made things happen
Posted by: thekidde on Sep 22, 2008 11:16 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is beyond stupid. Belief in "god(s)" is no different, through the indoctination of children, than Santa Claus, the Tooth Fairy, Leprechauns, etc. Why do YOU believe the religious b.s. you do? Because you were told to by your parents, church, etc. Life is not a dress rehearsal. This is it, face it or be ignorant.

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» RE: You're Right, This is IT! Posted by: edgar_michel
Sarah Palin Just Isn't Very Bright
Posted by: edgar_michel on Sep 22, 2008 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's really not her fault. Somehow she just got passed along by her church until she arrived at the governorship. Kinda reminds me of an old 1979 Peter Sellers Movie "Being There," where Peter Sellers plays the role of Chauncey Gardner, an intellectually challenged ward of a wealthy family, who's only occupation in life is tending the garden on the estate where he is care for. In the movie Chauncey Gardner rises through coincidental accidents to become economic advisor to the president of the United States.

But to draw other analogies:

At one time rock stars came to prominence by playing small venues in small towns that progressively drew larger and larger audiences, resulting in a plethora of great talent emerging in the sixties and seventies. Now we have America Idol where unknown performers are thrust into stardom for a brief moment by the mega-studios.

Once there were presidents elected by the people of the United States who rose to prominence by becoming local politicians who outperformed all their rivals rising to the president of the country where great policies flourished under their administrations. Now we have mega-corporations that take a relatively unknown candidate who is thrusted into the presidential elections to give the American People a show that reminds them of the nation they once were.

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Palin, A Bottom Feeder.
Posted by: greenPuker on Sep 22, 2008 11:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Progressive women in this USA must be laughing their heads off. How could such a homophobic, Creationist evangelical nutball as this anti-choice, God-pandering woman, (who's the inverse of Hillary) this woman of deep inexperience, who abhors birth control and supports abstinence education, shoots exhausted wolves from helicopters, hates polar bears and actually stands for everything progressive women have resented since the first pope Swift-Boated Eve, ever help ANY candidate.

Palin is an ignorant, intellectually deficient, narcissistic, devious, petty, vengeful religious fanatic. That's why McCain picked her. She shares those characteristics with Bush. She shares those characteristics with McCain. The GOP invented the bottom of the barrel!

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Rush Limbaugh + Ann Coulter sum up rightwing creationist views of environmental issues
Posted by: fanny666 on Sep 22, 2008 11:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"God created this magnificent planet and its climate and environment and all that; the idea that we can destroy it is just absurd"
-Rush Limbaugh

"God gave us the earth. We have dominion over the plants, the animals, the trees. God said, 'Earth is yours. Take it. Rape it. It's yours.'"
-Ann Coulter

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JUDAS ALERT: Bill Clinton pimped for John McCain today on "The View"
Posted by: NoMcCainPalin on Sep 22, 2008 11:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched Clinton appear on the "The View" today with my wife. Not surprisingly, Slick Willie failed to attack Senator McCain. Instead, he, Clinton, damn near endorsed the senile Manchurian Candidate.

There is no doubt in my mind now that Bill wants Obama to lose the election so his wife can run again in 2012.

For readers who have forgotten what President Clinton is all about, he's the self-serving, womanizing, greedy bastard who pushed NAFTA and took $500,000 from the Arabs for a weekend's work lobbying for Dubai's takeover of our major seaports.

The slimy son of a bitch should crawl back to Hope, Arkansas, and hide under a rock where he belongs.

-----------------------------------------------

John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions

If you think the above slogan has legs, please contact the Democratic National Committee with this link -- Contact DNC -- then copy & paste the bold text below into the Question box. NOTE: the link works slowly.

To help Senator Obama win in November, please use the following slogan in his TV ads: "John McCain -- OLD ideas, OLD solutions"

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You would THINK that a creationist
Posted by: truthlover on Sep 22, 2008 12:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You would think that a creationist would respect the Creator by protecting wildlife, the earth, and so on.

How is it honoring the CREATOR to ruin the CREATION?

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Real People
Posted by: gellero1 on Sep 22, 2008 12:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just had a conversation 2 hours ago with a family from Alaska ( 8 years there )

They are civilian military employees from MacDill AFB, here in Florida for 6 months.

Their opinion was that Gov. Palin cleaned out the 'old boy' Republican establishment and is a VERY effective governor. They felt she had support of 80% of the voters.

Haven't seen ANY Alaskan citizens comment here yet.

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Real People
Posted by: gellero1 on Sep 22, 2008 12:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just had a conversation 2 hours ago with a family from Alaska ( 8 years there )

They are civilian military employees from MacDill AFB, here in Florida for 6 months.

Their opinion was that Gov. Palin cleaned out the 'old boy' Republican establishment and is a VERY effective governor. They felt she had support of 80% of the voters.

Haven't seen ANY Alaskan citizens comment here yet.

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» RE: Real People Posted by: BlueGorilla
religion isn't the problem, just Palin's extreme version of Christianity
Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 22, 2008 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The International Network for Religion and Animals (INRA) was founded in 1985 by Virginia Bouraquardez. Its educational and religious programs are meant to "bring religious principles to bear upon humanity’s attitude towards the treatment of our animal kin...and, through leadership, materials, and programs, to successfully interact with clergy and laity from many religious traditions."

According to INRA:

"Religion counsels the powerful to be merciful and kind to those weaker than themselves, and most of humankind is at least nominally religious. But there is a ghastly paradox. Far from showing mercy, humanity uses its dominion over other animal species to pen them in cruel close confinement; to trap, club, and harpoon them; to poison, mutilate, and shock them in the name of science; to kill them by the billions; and even to blind them in excruciating pain to test cosmetics.

"Some of these abuses are due to mistaken understandings of religious principles; others, to a failure to apply those principles. Scriptures need to be fully researched concerning the relationship of humans to nonhuman animals, and to the entire ecological structure of Nature. Misinterpretations of scripture taken out of context, or based upon questionable theological assumptions need to be re-examined."

In a pamphlet entitled "The Spiritual Link Between Humans and Animals," Reverend Marc Wessels writes: "We recognize that many animal rights activists and ecologists are highly critical of Christians because of our relative failure thus far adequately to defend animals and to preserve the natural environment. Yet there are positive signs of a growing movement of Christian activists and theologians who are committed to the process of ecological stewardship and animal liberation.

According to Reverend Wessels, "The most important teaching which Jesus shared was the need for people to love God with their whole self and to love their neighbor as they loved themselves. Jesus expanded the concept of neighbor to include those who were normally excluded, and it is therefore not too farfetched for us to consider the animals as our neighbors.

"To think about animals as our brothers and sisters is not a new or radical idea. By extending the idea of neighbor, the love of neighbor includes love of, compassion for, and advocacy of animals. There are many historical examples of Christians who thought along those lines, besides the familiar illustration of St. Francis. An abbreviated listing of some of those individuals worthy of study and emulation includes Saint Blaise, Saint Comgall, Saint Cuthbert, Saint Gerasimus, Saint Giles, and Saint Jerome, to name but a few.

"Jesus’ life was one of compassion and liberation;" concludes Rev. Wessels, "his ministry was one which understood and expressed the needs of the oppressed. Especially in the past decade, Christians have been reminded that their faith requires them to take seriously the cries of the oppressed.

"Theologians such as Gutierrez, Miranda, and Hinkelammert have defined the Christian message as one which liberates lives and transforms social patterns of oppression. That concept of Christianity which sees God as the creator of the universe and the One who seeks justice is not exclusive; immunity from cruelty and injustice is not only a human desire or need—the animal kingdom also needs liberation."

A growing number of Christian theologians, clergy and activists are beginning to take a stand in favor of animal rights. In a pamphlet entitled "Christian Considerations on Laboratory Animals," Rev. Marc Wessels notes that in laboratories animals cease to be persons and become "tools of research." He cites William French of Loyala University as having made the same observation at a gathering of Christian ethicists at Duke University—a conference entitled "Good News for Animals?"

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Reverend Andrew Linzey: animal liberation theology
Posted by: vasumurti on Sep 22, 2008 12:58 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Reverend Dr. Andrew Linzey’s 1987 book, Christianity and the Rights of Animals, may be regarded as a landmark in Christian theology as well as in the animal rights movement. Linzey responds to criticism from many of the intellectual leaders of the animal rights and environmental movements—Peter Singer, Richard Ryder, Maureen Duffy, Lynn White, Jr.—that Christianity has excluded nonhumans from moral concern, that Christian churches are consequently agents of oppression, and that Christian doctrines are thus responsible for the roots of the current ecological crisis.

"We do not have books devoted to a consideration of animals," he acknowledges. "We do not have clearly worked-out systematic views on animals. These are signs of the problem. The thinking, or at least the vast bulk of it, has yet to be done."

Dr. Tom Regan, the foremost intellectual leader of the animal rights movement, calls Reverend Linzey, an Anglican clergyman, "the foremost theologian working in the field of animal/human relations." Christianity and the Rights of Animals, a must-read for all Christians, certainly clears the ground.

According to Reverend Linzey:

"It does seem somewhat disingenuous for Christians to speak so solidly for human rights and then query the appropriateness of rights language when it comes to animals...the Christian basis for animal rights is bound to be different in crucial respects from that of secular philosophy. But because Christians (as we see it) have a good, even superior, basis for animal rights, that in no way precludes others from utilizing the terminology."

Linzey acknowledges that the gospel is ambiguous on ethical questions such as animal rights. "When it comes to wanting to know the attitude that Jesus may have taken to a range of pressing moral issues today, we are often at a loss to know precise answers. But we can at least be clear about the contours. The lordship of Christ is expressed in service. He is the one who washes dirty feet, heals the sick, releases individuals from oppression, both spiritual and physical, feeds the hungry, and teaches his followers the way of costly loving..."

Linzey justifies compassion for animals through the example of Christ. "If God’s self-revealed life in Jesus is the model of how Christians should behave and if, crucially, divine power is expressed in service, how can we disregard even ‘the least among us’? It may be that in the light of Christ we are bound to say that the weakest have in fact the greater claim upon us.

"In some ways," Linzey continues, "Christian thinking is already oriented in this direction. What is it that so appalls us about cruelty to children or oppression of the vulnerable, but that these things are betrayals of relationships of special care and special trust? Likewise, and even more so, in the case of animals who are mostly defenceless before us.

"Slowly but surely," Linzey explains, "having grasped the notion of dominion means stewardship, we are now for the first time seeing how demanding our lordship over creation is really meant to be. Where once we thought we had the cheapest ride, we are now beginning to see that we have the costliest responsibilities...Lordship without service is indeed tyranny."

Discussing the finer points between human "dominion" over animals, versus humane stewardship, Linzey says, "the whole point about stewardship is that the stewards should value what God has given as highly as they value themselves. To be placed in a relationship of special care and special protection is hardly a license for tyranny or even... ‘benevolent despotism.’ If we fail to grasp the necessarily sacrificial nature of lordship as revealed in Christ, we shall hardly begin to make good stewards, even of those beings we regard as ‘inferior.’"

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good, fact based arguments collapse
Posted by: stonejaxx on Sep 22, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This was truly an excellent article: scholarly and revealing. Kudos to the author.

Now, let's see how this competent and rational approach will be met by the opposition.

Of course, they will ignore it. They are not intersted in complete, well founded debates. Instead, their interest is in only what will get them elected.

"The American Taliban" is an apt and appropriate label. However, they will run roughshod over this and any other argument citing the Lord as their ultimate resource.

The devil mixes lies with truth and pulls a popular line. Can we organize our level headed and academic thoughts to counter this?

If we voted on intellect and sound policy alone, Barack would be on his way to a landslide. How to train the power of truth vs. deceit mixed with just enough truth to pray on our fears?

We need to fight, talk, protest, blog, e-mail, distrupt, footnote and volunteer...this is a clever opposition which has more on their side than most admit.

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Does creationism mean that,creation has to be destroyed?
Posted by: BlueGorilla on Sep 22, 2008 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Christian right,is hellbent on ignoring the progressive messages, within The Bible.
These ultra-conservatives have projected all of their own dogma's,re twisted nationalism,chauvanistic war on sovereign nations,tax cuts for the wealthy and wage cuts for the poor,onto a very old book.
None of the original Christian institutions, came up with a similar ideology,when interpreting the supposed words and actions of Jesus.
In the twisted reading of the bible,by conservative Americans,this book has become merely a mirror, for the knee jerk prejudices of oil men,homophobes,and despisers of the working and middle classes.
Now im not a Christian,but it is pretty clear that when one calls ,the bible,"the holy book",that means that you can't just conveniently ignore,all of the bits that you don't like.
When I hear and read, the right wing interpretation of the bible,I begin to wonder if there are chapters on "why all gays are hellbound","the good samaritan,what a schmuk" and "Jesus loves America"..funnily enough there are no such chapters.in fact there is no record of Jesus,condemning same sex relations,neither is there a record of Jesus stating "it is easier for a camel to fit through,the eye of the needle,than for a low wage employee,to enter the Kingdom of Heaven"
One of the biggest illogicalities, in far right and creationist biblical interpretations,appears to be,that God loves those who destroy his/her creation.Yep,cos if God had laboured over the earth's creation, for six days,then God would surely want to see it destroyed,along with the creatures created at the same time.Drilling for oil,at the expense of the beautiful coast lines,and slaughtering animals for fun,are obviously respectful of creation.
Palin is a fool,in fact she is probably one of the dimmest women in the world today.She lacks self awareness,empathy and compassion.She is Daniella Quayle,and like Dan,is unfit for any office at all.

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» Real Christian Thought Posted by: teufelhunde
GET OUT THERE AND VOTE FOR OBAMA!!!
Posted by: cori on Sep 22, 2008 3:52 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Today I called my senators and congressmen to express my outrage about the bailout and Palin

Kick out the jams ask for your rep 202- 224- 3121

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hey out there lets make some noise! It our lives remember?
Posted by: cori on Sep 22, 2008 5:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When fascism comes to this country, it will be wrapped in the flag carrying a cross."
--Sinclair Lewis

Ask for your rep and tell them you won't vote for them anymore if they bail out these goddamn robbers - and tell them you are voting for Obama.
202-224- 3121

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Religion is nonsense
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Sep 22, 2008 6:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a sophomore undergraduate student in Physics, your homework in Probability
and Statistics class may include figuring out when the second coming would be
required, assuming that the bible was 100% true in the year zero. That is, when
would the bible be down to 50% true? The popular and professors' answer in
1965 was the year 500. The true answer: A friend of mine was born and raised in
Budapest, Hungary. As an adult, he came here and stayed. After 25 years, he
visited his home town of Budapest. He was unable to communicate with his high
school classmates because the Hungarian language had changed so much. The
correct answer is less than 25 years. The first gospel was not written down until
50 years after the alleged events and then in a different language. The people who
told the story were at about the same level of civilization as "wild Indians", I mean
Native Americans before Columbus got here. We have all played or seen played
the game called "Telephone" in which a story is passed down a line of re-tellers.
By the Sixth re-telling, the story has no resemblance to the original. The gospel
story had to have been re-told at least 6 times before it was mis-translated the first
time. [Note that whoever wrote it down the first time was free to write whatever
he wanted to. The storytellers were illiterate and unable to check his written text
by reading it. Besides that, he wrote in Greek rather than Aramaic.] Conclusion:
There is no truth anywhere in the bible, and there never was. There is no way to
know what "jesus" or "mohammed" or any other such character actually said or
did.

ALL of the jurisdictions that were formerly in the jurisdiction of religion have
been taken over by Science. There is no longer a need to debate the issue.
Religion is an unfortunate side effect of having evolved from a chimpanzee-like
animal in a very brief 6 or 7 million years. "God" will not save us from the
consequences of global warming or an asteroid impact or a tornado because there
is no such critter as "god.". Ethics and morality are instinctive, not derived from
religion. Female instinct has greater force in morality than male instinct because
the female is in command of the sexual encounter. Look up "Sociobiology". The
origin of the Universe is the subject of Cosmology which is part of astronomy
which is part of the science of physics.
Religion is a SCAM. ANY religion, there are 10,000 to choose from at any one
time. People keep inventing new religions [for the benefit of the "prophet," of
course] and forgetting other religions. ALL preachers, priests, imams, rabbis,
iatolas, etc. belong in jail for "grand theft, bunko type".

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retired
Posted by: merledeboer on Sep 22, 2008 6:59 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is so astonishingly mind blowing that people can actually insist God created the world and everything in it, but did Not create evolution even though it actually exists. I wonder who created evolution while God was not looking? It seems only logical that God either created everything or nothing! Do they believe that God is absent minded or Unintelligent? Many also declare the Bible is inerrant and can only be read literally, even though Billy Graham and the Pope have both said the Bible cannot be read literally. Furthermore, the Pope and the Catholic Church believe evolution is NOT contradictory to creation. But what do they know???????

In Genesis it says that on Day One God created light plus day and night, and then created the Sun and day and night again on Day Four, quite a duplication it would seem! To be fair, it isn't quite the exact same wordage because on Day One God created light but waited for Day Four to create the Sun -- ?????????? Please tell me how anyone in their right mind can say those verses can be read or interpreted literally? I am confused as I possibly can be!!!

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» God loves you too. Posted by: teufelhunde
Some good books on religion
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Sep 22, 2008 7:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion is caused by any one or more of about half a dozen mental illnesses.
The truth about religion can be found in these books:

"The Neuropsychological bases of god beliefs" Dr. Michael A. Persinger MD,
psychiatrist 1987 "Religious people are just like my temporal lobe patients"

"The Origin of Consciousness in the Breakdown of the Bi-Cameral Mind" Julian
Jaynes Professor, Harvard University 1976 "Religious people are just like
schizophrenic patients"

"The Psychiatric Interview in Clinical Practice" Roger A. MacKinnon, M.D.,
Robert Michels, M.D. W. B. Saunders Co. 1971 "Religiosity is a common
symptom [of] schizophrenic patients"

"The God delusion" by Richard Dawkins. "Religion is caused by a kind of
computer virus that infects the living computer, the human brain."

"The Science of Good and Evil" by Michael Shermer, 2004 "Morality and Ethics
are now in the jurisdiction of Science and greatly improved thereby."

Many books in the new science called "Sociobiology": Morals and ethics are
instinctive and they evolved.

"God: The Failed Hypothesis" by Victor Stenger. Scientific proof that god does
not exist.

"The God Part of the Brain" by Matthew Alper 1996. "The USA is anomolusly
religious because many early founder groups were religiously insane and fleeing
prosecution in Europe. Religion is a genetic disorder."

"The Accidental Mind" by David J. Linden, 2007 Belknap Press of Harvard
University Press. Religion is caused by the extreme klugeyness of the "designed"
by evolution brain. In particular, the narrative creation system cannot be turned
off. It generates false narratives that are believed by the generating person. This is
seen in experiments done in the laboratory. This book has the best explanation of
resistance to evolution: "There has also been an assumption that if one accepts the
idea that life developed without divine intervention, it necessarily follows that all
aspects of religious thought must be rejected. Those who take this line of
argument to extremes argue that when religious thought is rejected moral and
social codes will degenerate and "the law of the jungle" will be all that is left. It is
imagined by religious fundamentalists that those who do not share their particular
religious faith are incapable of leading moral lives." These suppositions are not
true many times over. Linden later mentions that the creationists [intelligent
design advocates] are exactly 180 degrees wrong rather than just a little wrong.
Being exactly wrong, they are unable to unlearn their error. See Sociobiology or
Sciobio.

"Scientists Confront Intelligent Design and Creationism" edited by Petto &
Godfrey, 2007. The ID and creationist crowd are trying to do away with science.
They see science as a "godless religion." Science is a process, not a religion.

"Manufacturing Belief" by Lewis Wolpert
http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/05/15/lewis_wolpert/

"The End of Faith" and "Letter to a Christian Nation" by Sam Harris

"Breaking the Spell: Religion as a Natural Phenomenon", by Daniel Dennett
Let's do scientific research on religion and find out what causes it.

"Origins of the Modern Mind" by Merlin Donald 1991 "So what did you expect
from a brain that is based on the Chimpanzee brain?

"Atheism, A Case Against God" by George Smith

"God is not Great; how religion poisons everything" by Christopher Hitchens, 2007

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Religion, fall of civilization, extinction
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Sep 22, 2008 7:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Creationism, religion and disbelief in global warming could cause
the EXTINCTION of Homo Sapiens. We have arrived at a time
when only Science can save us. Any belief that interferes with
science is dangerous and DEADLY. Christianity killed the
Vikings on Greenland. We are much too close to the brink
already to tolerate such nonsense as Sarah Palin's beliefs.
Religions, especially anti-science religions like Creationism, ARE
insanity.
I want to move to Mars, leaving Sarah Palin and her type here.
Then if she goes ahead and causes her own extinction, a more
intelligent ape from Mars will eventually re-colonize an earth that
will be uninhabited. The insanity of the many should not prevent
the evolution of the few.
There is no possibility of Sarah Palin being the type who survives
in space because space is a hostile environment. False beliefs will
get you killed very quickly in space. Evolution will happen very
quickly in space. [We are not the "final product" of evolution
because evolution never stops. You don't notice the change
because it happens too slowly.]

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Humane Society Does NOT Like Palin's Cruelty to Animals
Posted by: thinks4herself2008 on Sep 22, 2008 8:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until now, the Humane Society has never endorsed a Presidential candidate, but Sarah Palin's cruelty to animals helped push them to make a selection. Check out their statement, and once again I'm proud to be supporting Obama/Biden!

http://crabbyshangout2008.blogspot.com/

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And if Mccain/Palin somehow manage to get elected, then
Posted by: maxpayne on Sep 22, 2008 8:35 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
GOD WILL CONTINUE TO SEVERELY PUNISH AMERICA TO ETERNAL DAMNATION !

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Sarah Palin's war on science
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Sep 22, 2008 9:16 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reference: "The Republican War on Science" by Chris
Mooney, 2005, Basic Books. It has the following URLs:
http://www.waronscience.com/home.php
http://www.chriscmooney.com/
http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05268/576883.stm

See also:
"Undermining Science, suppression and distortion in the
Bush Administration" by Seth Shulman, 2006

"The Republican War on Science" by Chris Mooney says:

"Because Trofim Lysenko convinced Josef Stalin that
genetics is wrong, 12 million people died of starvation.
The coal companies convinced President George W. Bush
[and Senator Inohe] that global warming hasn't happened
and 12 hundred people died in hurricanes in 2005. For the
same reason, people died in the wildfires in Oklahoma."
12 hundred is less than 12 million, but GWB is still
comparable to Stalin. Both adopted anti-science policies
for ideological reasons and thereby murdered large numbers
of their own citizens.
George W. Bush favors a form of "democracy" called
Theocracy. Huckabee is more extreme on this issue.
There is something that needs to be made explicit: Truth
is not determined by a vote of scientists. Scientists are not
authorities. Nature is the Only authority. There is only
one vote that counts, and Nature casts it. It isn't just "not
nice" to fool Mother Nature, it is impossible. Scientists
understand and believe this so innately that they never say
it, but other people may think that scientists wield power or
authority.
Reference: book: "Science and Immortality" by Charles B.
Paul 1980 University of California Press
The Eloges of the Paris Academy of Sciences (1699-1791)
page 99: "Science is not so much a natural as a moral
philosophy".
page 106: Nature isn't just the final authority, Nature is the
Only authority. When you try to disobey Nature [In
older language: "When you try to tell God how to run the
Universe".], the result is less subtle than a train wreck: The
rocket explodes on the launch pad. Oklahomans die in
wild fires when it should be winter. The Gulf coast suffers
the worst hurricane season ever. Tornado season extends
into January.
Book: "The Long Summer, How Climate Changed
Civilization" by Brian Fagan 2004 Basic Books
Summary: Small climate changes caused the fall of many
civilizations.

The Religious Right is also giving a war on Science, trying
to convince people that Evolution is wrong and trying to
prevent the teaching of Science in school. As we all know,
religion is caused by mental illness.

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War on Science causes Economic Meltdown
Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Sep 22, 2008 10:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just saw Bill Clinton on Letterman. Bill Clinton said there were
fewer startup companies in the George W. Bush administration,
but the Fed had a low interest rate to keep the economy going.
Since there were few places to invest, the banks invented sub-
prime loans. Sub-prime loans caused the economic meltdown.

It doesn't take much thinking to link fewer startup companies to
less research. Research creates new high tech startup companies
to invest in. Less research was George W. Bush's War on
Science policy. The Republican War on Science was driven by
George W. Bush's religion. Religion is the cause of the economic
meltdown and George W. Bush's call for a $700 Billion bailout for
his buddy bankers. Sarah Palin has the same anti-science type of
religion that George W. Bush has.
Obama would restore research funding. The conclusion is
obvious: Vote for Obama. Believe in science. The economy
needs more science.

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» Religious people are not to blame Posted by: teufelhunde
the TRUTH about Palin
Posted by: independent99 on Sep 23, 2008 12:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here lies the TRUTH about Sarah Palin: http://dailysource.org/palin

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No courtesy required
Posted by: AKwildlife on Sep 23, 2008 6:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I rarely agree with people who post on AlterNet but joined hoping for some interesting, factual and CIVIL debate. Maybe I’d learn a little, maybe I could present a different point of view now and then. You know - the typical reason for discourse and conversation.

Sadly, after reading many comments and occasionally attempting to participate for the past two weeks, it is clear to me that the majority of AlterNet readers can’t consider any position that doesn’t fully align with theirs. And certainly, there is rarely courteous discussion.

There is, however, hate filled, rude and sometimes completely disgusting name calling and personal abuse of our public servants who attempt to rise above the fray to serve the public. Agree or disagree with their POSITIONS and maybe even their motives but the least you could do is give them the respect they deserve for seeking public office in an effort to improve our world. If you believe someone’s view of how to improve the state of affairs is invalid, can you not challenge those positions with civility and a little bit of intellect? Belittling those positions or personal points of view or faith may make you feel witty and high-minded but honestly only shows ignorance and intolerance.

Few people here seem to utilize any God-given reasoning skills or even consider taking a fraction of a moment to research to understand alternate viewpoints or even the validity of the articles or statements therein. I will move on to a forum where people use intelligent arguments and facts to debate civilly and rationally and leave those of you who are obviously ideologues to chuckle and guffaw amongst each other since you obviously amuse yourselves so ardently.

To those who attempt to debate logically, good luck.

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» RE: No courtesy required Posted by: teufelhunde
Conservatives against nature?
Posted by: teufelhunde on Sep 23, 2008 9:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before I begin, I just want to say I am not attempting to "derail the conversation" with any conservative points, so please feel free to answer my questions...Um, I'm only seventeen, and would appreciate it if any responders didn't take my ignorance as any insult or anything like that. And just as a final statement (sorry for all this by the way), I think the best way to persuade conservatives like myself is to respond, and would appreciate it if you did.

On to what I wanted to say. Conservatives are not waging a "holy war" against nature (at least I'm not). If nature were a threat to national security, I'm sure then conservatives might have felt so inclined. But the fact remains there do exist some independent conservatives like McCain who believe that the environment should be protected. Even more conservatively inclined politicians like Palin aren't destroying nature with the intent to do so. As for myself, I like nature just as much as the next guy.

I also want to know what is the rationale behind the belief that the existence of a couple of polar bears, if a pipe across the desert-like ANWR could seriously threaten such an existence, supersedes any potential benefit to humans from oil-drilling and such activities. Or why the polar bears existence is held as more important than unborn children. Even if it takes ten years (or whatever the statistic is) I want to know the rationale behind denying the American people the gasoline that could potentially cut prices. Does supply and demand still exist as a credible economic theory (they still teach it at my school)?

By the way, and this is not meant as any sort of rhetorical question, what do the French do with their nuclear waste? I'm 17, and too lazy to look it up on any site other than Wikipedia. I heard they do 70% nuclear. And what do we do with our nuclear waste from our submarines?

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» Uh, thanks I guess Posted by: teufelhunde
Sarah Palin Witchy Woman:
Posted by: chappiedamann on Sep 27, 2008 12:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://nl.youtube.com/watch?v=r8oPODGK_pI

love this video!

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