COMMENTS: 306
At JFK Airport, Denying Basic Rights Is Just Another Day at the Office
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Civil Liberties headlines via email.
We got to an enclosed holding area in the arrivals section of the airport. He shoved the folder into my hand and gestured toward four sets of Homeland Security guards sitting at large desks. Attached to each desk were metal poles capped with red, white and blue siren lights. I approached two guards carrying weapons and wearing uniforms similar to New York City police officers, but they shook their heads, laughed and said, "Over there," pointing in the direction of four overflowing holding pens. I approached different desks until I found an official who nodded and shoved my green folder in a crowded metal file holder. When I asked him why I was there, he glared at me, took a sip from his water bottle, bit into a sandwich, and began to dig between his molars with his forefinger. I found a seat next to a man who looked about my age -- in his late 20s -- and waited.
Omar (not his real name) finished his fifth year in biomedical engineering at City College in June. He had just arrived from Beirut, where he visited his family and was waiting to go home to the apartment he shared with his brother in Harlem. Despite his near-perfect English and designer jeans, Omar looked scared. He rubbed his hands and rocked softly in his seat. He had been waiting for hours already, and, as he pointed out, a number of people -- some sick, elderly, pregnant or holding sobbing babies -- had too. There were approximately 70 people detained in our cordoned-off section: All were Arab (with the exception of me and the friend I traveled with), and almost all had arrived from Dubai, Amman or Damascus. Many were U.S. citizens.
We were in the front row, sitting a few feet from two guards' desks. They sneered at each bewildered arrival, told jokes in whispers, swiveled in their office chairs and greeted passing guards who stopped to talk -- guards who had a habit of looping their fingers into their holsters. One asked his friend how many nationalities were represented in the room. "About 20. Some of everything today."
No one who had been detained knew precisely why they were there. A few people were led into private rooms; others were questioned out in the open at desks a few feet from the crowd and then allowed to pass through customs. Some were sent to another section of the holding area with large computer screens and cameras, and then brought back. The uninformed consensus among the detainees was that some people would be fingerprinted, have their irises scanned and be sent back to the countries from which they had disembarked, regardless of citizenship status; others would be fingerprinted and allowed to stay; and the unlucky ones would be detained indefinitely and moved to a more permanent facility.
There was one British tourist in the group. Paul (also not his real name) was traveling with three friends who had passed through customs soon after their plane landed and were waiting for him on the other side of the metal barrier; he suspected he had been detained because of his dark skin. When he asked if he could go to the bathroom, one of the guards said, "I wouldn't." "What if someone has to?" I asked. "They will just have to hold it," the guard responded with a smile. Paul began to cry. I watched as he, over the course of four hours, went from feeling exuberant about his trip to New York to despising the entire country. "I speak the Queen's English," he said to me. "I'm third-generation British. I came to America because I've always wanted to come here, and now they've got me so scared that all I want to do is go home. We're paying for your stupid war anyway."
To be powerless and mocked at the same time makes one feel ashamed, which leads quickly to rage. Within a few hours of my arrival, I saw at least 10 people denied the right to use the bathroom or buy food and water. I watched my traveling companion duck under a barrier, run to the bathroom and slip back into the holding section -- which, of course, someone of another ethnicity in a state of panic would be very reluctant to do. The United States is good at naming enemies, but apparently we are even better at making them, especially of individuals. I don't know if it's worse for national security -- and more embarrassing for Americans -- that this is the first experience tourists have of our country, or that some U.S. citizens get treated this way upon entering their own country.
The guard who had been picking his molars for hours quietly mispronounced the names of people whose turn it was to be questioned, muttering each surname three times and then moving on. When he called Omar from City College to his desk, I moved closer to hear the interview. "Where did you go?" the officer asked. "What is your address in the United States? Is your brother here illegally? Do you support Hezbollah? What do you think of Hezbollah in general? How do you pay for your life here? How many people live with you? Are you sure it's just you and your brother? Who are your friends?" Omar answered respectfully and emphatically; he was then asked to wait by the side of the desk, from which he was ushered toward one of the rooms.
After four hours, I finally demanded to speak to the guards' supervisor, and he was called down. I asked if the detainees could file a formal complaint. He said there were complaint forms (which, in English and Spanish, direct one to the Department of Homeland Security's Web site, where one must enter extensive personal information in order to file a "Trip Summary") but initially refused to hand them out or to give me his telephone number. "The Department of Homeland Security is understaffed, underfunded, and I have men here who are doing 14-hour days." He tried to intimidate me when I wrote down his name -- "So, you're writing down our names. Well, we have more on you" -- and asked me questions about my address and my profession in front of the rest of the people detained. I pointed out a few of the families who had missed their flights and had been waiting seven hours. His voice barely controlled, his lip curled into a smirk, he explained slowly, condescendingly, that they need only go to the ticket counter at Jet Blue and reschedule so they could fly out in an hour. One mother responded with what he must have already known: Jet Blue goes to most destinations only once or twice a day and her whole family would have to sleep in the airport.
A large crowd began to gather. Everyone wanted to voice complaints. I explained to the supervisor that his guards had been making people afraid. He flipped through the green files, tossing the American passports to the front of the pile. "You should have gone first, before these people. American citizens first -- that's how it should be." In the face of dozens of requests and questions, he turned and left.
The guards processed me then, ignoring the order of arrivals, if there ever had been one. They refused to distribute more complaint forms or call the supervisor back down at the request of Arab families. One officer threatened, "I'm talking politely to you now. If you don't sit down, I won't be talking politely to you anymore." One announced that because "the American girl" had gotten angry, the families would have to wait a few more hours. "The supervisor is not coming back."
I reassured my Homeland Security interrogator that I did not make any connections with Hezbollah or with anyone I knew to be associated with such an organization. I am not a member of any terrorist group. In fact, my visit to Syria had been so apolitical and touristy that I felt an embarrassing affinity with the pastel-shirted families waiting by the Air France baggage carousels in the distance, whom I knew I would eventually join.
As I walked out of the enclosure, some people thanked me, squeezing my arm and putting their hands on my shoulders. It was shocking that briefly standing up to someone overseeing an abuse of civil rights -- in JFK airport, in the United States, where we supposedly have laws and a democratic judicial system -- could be perceived as heroic. I had nothing to lose, but the other people being detained had everything to lose.
In the past five years I have worked for human rights and refugee advocacy organizations in Serbia, Russia and Croatia, including the International Rescue Committee and USAID. I have traveled to many different places, some supposedly repressive, and have never seen people treated with the kind of animosity that Homeland Security showed that night. In Syria, border control officers were stern but polite. At other borders there have been bureaucracies to contend with -- excruciating for both Americans and other foreign nationals. I've met Russian officials with dead, suspicious looks in their eyes and arms tired from stamping so many visas, but in America, the Homeland Security officials I encountered were very much alive -- like vultures waiting to eat.
Stay up to date with the latest Civil Liberties headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wwittman on Aug 18, 2008 12:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I congratulate you on your bravery in the face of intimidation.
But would you REALLY put it past these guys to act beyond their actual legal constraints?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: You SURE you had nothing to lose?
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» The US is so damned scary...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The US is so damned scary...
Posted by: emmas
» Oops
Posted by: emmas
» RE: You SURE you had nothing to lose?
Posted by: nen
» In a way this is good
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Everywhere a Terrorist
Posted by: karinkdf82
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bryangalt on Aug 18, 2008 1:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am embarrassed for America and Americans if this is how the Bush administration thinks they are keeping the country safe. This just adds to the long, long list of incompetent decisions made by him and his band of criminals.
To the people that were held like cattle, I would extend my apologies to you. As an American citizen, not an agent of the Bush administration, I can tell you that I am appalled and shocked to read about what you went through.
I hope you never have to endure such outageous treatment again.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: HillbillyBob
» "Land of the free, home of the brave, my arse!"
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: deang
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 18, 2008 3:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, my artificial hip set off the metal detector. So they had to pass an electronic wand over my body as though I were a suicider.
Next, my cane got scutinized, as if it were a pipe bomb. And finally, my shoes wee examined for explosives.
With all that in mind, here's how I now deal with airport security. I don't! I wouldn't fly again if they paid me.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» CORRECTION: "wee" should be WERE. (I need new glasses!)
Posted by: HughScott
» I wouldn't fly again if they paid me.
Posted by: soundman
» I hear you, soundman. Lucky for me, being a retired airline employee, I ...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: UnderTheSea
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: deang
» I'm not afraid to fly, deang. I just can't stand the hassle!
Posted by: HughScott
» I think it's all about control, UnderTheSea. Airport security loves treating people liks sheep.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: Angie
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: HillbillyBob
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: sirios
» Why are you so angry, sirios? Did you have a bad childhood?
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Why are you so angry, sirios? Did you have a bad childhood?
Posted by: sirios
» Sirios, I Ihink you have me confused with someone who gives a shit.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Why are you so angry, sirios? Did you have a bad childhood?
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» So how was your childhood, wolfgangmo7
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: joe2171
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rinthy on Aug 18, 2008 3:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rinthy
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Nostalgia
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Nostalgia
Posted by: Keegan
» RE: ights and Liberties
Posted by: seslabaugh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: akai ringo on Aug 18, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Ordinary American citizens...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: tuelster
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: deang
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: justAnEgg
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: abersabeel
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eyebox on Aug 18, 2008 4:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When consistent violation of fundamental human rights masquerades as 'democracy' and the population sits back and does nothing, we have a recipe for the disaster that the US is quickly becoming.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: nacnud
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: deang
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: Harris20
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: deang
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CJC on Aug 18, 2008 4:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday's NYTimes travel section had a question from a reader about whether it was possible for a woman to travel safely in Syria. The gist of the answer was that Syria had a restrictive government and therefore conditions for tourists were safe. As for the traveler being a woman the advice was to dress modestly.
No mention was made of possible confinement for hours at JFK on one's return.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dougo on Aug 18, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Gulag America
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Why wait til November?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Gulag America
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Gulag America
Posted by: UnderTheSea
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LionHeart on Aug 18, 2008 5:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this sound familar - Japanese American internment camps during WW2. Terrorists do not need to bomb us again or fight to take away our freedoms, we are doing a good job of it ourselves!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Our own worst enemy
Posted by: Keegan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blacktiger on Aug 18, 2008 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: camanokat
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: Blacktiger
» That's why it's so important...
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: That's why it's so important...
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: That's why it's so important...
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: That's why it's so important...
Posted by: Harris20
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Germanicus on Aug 18, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would agree with the comment above -- if you are not a Yank and have no need to go there, stay away. Don't be tempted by the cheap holiday, the bargain-basement clothes and electronics.
That last bit may need explaining to American readers. You see, as the value of the dollar has plunged, the relative value of other currencies has sky-rocketed, so travelling to America is really cheap. You know, the way it used to be for Americans going to Mexico. I guess, now that we are headed for the status of a Banana Republic, we have the sadistic civil servants to go with it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: deang
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: halg
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
Comments are closed-
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Aug 18, 2008 5:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We sat for three hours in a crowded room where we were the only Americans. Actually we stood because all the seats were taken. Most of the people who were detained along with us were either Pakistani, Indian or Arabs. The guards and people behind the glass sitting at cubicles with computer screens completely ignored us or answered our questions mostly by saying, you'll have to wait your turn.
At the end of the three hours, an official approached us quietly from a side door, handed us back our passports and acted very apologetic (although no apology or explanation was given for our being held). He directed us to the elevator and told us how to exit the building.
The ridiculousness of this episode cannot be overemphasized especially when we had crossed the border via the pedestrian bridge across the falls several times that same day, without incident. In fact, most of the time no one was there. I believe my friend and I were detained because he is dark skinned, and I wear the hijab. That time was about 2 weeks after the Pakistani British men were caught in the UK plotting to blow up Heathrow Airport. So all Pakistanis were suspect, and all people having had anything to do with Pakistan.
This isn't fighting terrorism. This is terrorism.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: purplemcfadden
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on Aug 18, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
homeland security is just a new layer of unnecessarily ridiculous bureaucracy we didn't need or ask for... the best we can hope for is dismantling it, it's a waste of the $$ you are spending here (remember, we're broke)and doesn't do anything for anyone...
please do not come here unless you have any other choice... do your business over the internet, by phone and fax...
if the US can detain (imprison for hours or years) and deport its own citizens (to where, we don't know... just because an american visited your country doesn't mean your country wants american refugees)...
please take your vacation $$ to other countries where you can be safe and enjoy your adventure... we the majority of american people are sorry that this mess exists, the vast majority of us would love to meet you and your families, show you this beautiful country, but it is risky or actually dangerous for you to come here...
remember, we are trapped here too... many americans would love to get the hell out, but can't get the documents needed to satisfy the state department to get a passport to get out, let alone back in... and still risk imprisonment when we do return for stupid stuff...
we're sorry... truly sorry
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: akai ringo
» Not just to itself...
Posted by: Cathyc
» No need to apologize for the crimes of others...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: No need to apologize for the crimes of others...
Posted by: zizizzi
» The people of the USA are complicit
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: No need to apologize for the crimes of others...
Posted by: Karina
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: emmas
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: zizizzi
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: Krotos
» If you are an American citizen
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: AMerrickanGirl
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: emmas
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: curiousdwk on Aug 18, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Aug 18, 2008 7:10 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been their practice long before this current administration set foot in Washington.
Many have been complaining for the last five years that the money we're spending on the Iraq war would have been better spent on securing our borders. I know that's what Hillary Clinton cried about.
So what does that really mean??
More money really won't help outside of future advances in technology. At the Peace Bridge, there are about 20 bays for cars to pass thru.......so it's fairly limited as to what can be done to "protect" our borders...outside of asking questions.
There's no doubt that some border patrol agents act like thugs and we need to get rid of them ASAP. They need to be tactful, and respectful....and holding people for hours without any explanation has to end.
But profiling is a necessary evil in law enforcement.... whether you agree with the practice or not.
As far as this story, I think the author stretched the truth so that she could justify the last paragraph of her article.
Allstar Cookie
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: clasicgrl
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: swischeese
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: seslabaugh
» lack of understanding?????
Posted by: halg
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: kiel
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: nickl
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: copaceticindeed
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: logic
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: nickl
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: abEeyore
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» Rickets, too
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ickets, too
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: seslabaugh
» Once again, here is seslabaugh to tell us why we are ALL wrong
Posted by: halg
» I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: abatto
» RE: I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Genevieve
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blacktiger on Aug 18, 2008 7:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: zipoka
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: Blacktiger
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: rhinojos
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 18, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RD
Is your ISP watching?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The new Regime!
Posted by: Keegan
» RE: The new Regime!
Posted by: deang
» If the USA was a communist state
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: If the USA was a communist state
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: colinsyme on Aug 18, 2008 7:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: colin syme
Posted by: purplemcfadden
» RE: colin syme
Posted by: morticia
» RE: colin syme
Posted by: colinsyme
» Cool!
Posted by: morticia
» RE: Cool!
Posted by: colinsyme
» RE: Cool!
Posted by: morticia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Keegan on Aug 18, 2008 7:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: America
Posted by: topbrick
» Eh?
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burtonger on Aug 18, 2008 8:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Simply "AVOID AMERICA AT ANY COST"
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nikolai on Aug 18, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously tho, Homeland Security was created for 3 reasons;
1. So that it would at least APPEAR that the gov't was doing something about "terrorism".
2. To create more "cops". The wealthy folks in this country like to keep the rest of us in line; the more cops the better. The fact that HS people are not really cops makes it all the worse. Here are a bunch of hillbillies with NO real authority illegally detaining you and usurping your rights for NO valid reason!
3. The CIA, FBI, DEA, ATF, INS, NSA, etc were NOT(prior to 911) doing their jobs properly (the proof is in the pudding after all) and are STILL NOT doing their jobs properly, and weren't and still are NOT sharing information, so instead of FIXING THIS PROBLEM between all of these renegade agencies, what does the gov't do? THEY CREATE ANOTHER ONE!!!
Homeland Security is just a bunch of undereducated people who are benefitting from 911 in the creation of new jobs and they have to act like they're doing something to earn their shekels, I mean, dollars.
The bottom line is that this agency and the reasons it was created are a national disgrace.
My apologies to the citizens of all countries who have been detained by HS. There are still many REASONING Americans who do NOT agree with this agency and the reason(s) it was created, and the administration that created it.As a once proud American I for one APOLOGIZE for this SHAM of an agency, and assure you many other decent Americans feel the same!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Godda*n A-rabs are ED-U-KATED!
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 18, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: logic on Aug 18, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oregoncharles on Aug 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is essentially Immigration. They have a very basic, necessary job: to make sure your passport is genuine and you are who you say you are. If they can also catch some dangerous people, so much the better, but identification is the essence of their job.
So why, in this age of telecommunications and databases, does it take them hour upon hour to do their basic job? They should be able to do that in a few minutes, without making people miss their planes. If they can't, we're in real trouble.
This also has implications for the "profiling" issue. There really is a terrorist profile. It's very bad luck if you're a somewhat rootless young man from certain countries. But the profile does NOT include, for instance, American college students or middle-aged doctors (examples from my personal experience) - nor this American woman. First question: why are they wasting their time, and our money, on such people? Check their passports and send them on their way.
(Profiling can also be very dangerous, a form of carelessness. It's easy to evade by finding someone who doesn't fit the stereotype. For one example, there are plenty of blonde Muslims. Hence the random searches.)
If you are going to give certain people extra attention on the basis of an informed profile, it makes a big difference if you can do it QUICKLY. Ten minutes and answering a few (polite!) questions is a very minor inconvenience, and could serve everyone's interests. No harm, no foul. But the people described are clearly being harmed.
Why? One friend's theory is that the DHS people are simply underpaid, unhappy sadists getting their jollies. It does seem obvious that they are sadistic, stupid racists. But the real problem is that, for whatever reason (mostly incompetence and irresponsibility at very high levels), they can't actually do the legitimate job they're asked to do.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» good point
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Incompetence
Posted by: deang
» Blonde Muslim
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: morticia on Aug 18, 2008 12:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 7 Levels on Aug 18, 2008 12:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BobNoxious on Aug 18, 2008 12:53 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any crime is legal if the perpetrator is in a uniform.
I need to get myself a uniform so that I can be reckless and criminal without fear of any retribution.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 18, 2008 1:26 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RD
Ultimate Anonymity
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: praedor on Aug 18, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FUCK the Gestapo of the Dept of der Fatherland Security!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JJG on Aug 18, 2008 1:28 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: More professionalism needed.
Posted by: praedor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thekidde on Aug 18, 2008 1:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Aug 18, 2008 2:00 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only way to stop the petty and the horrendous large aggressions against people is to NAME THE JOHNS involved. Could they sue you? You are simply telling a story, giving your perspective. If you really wanted to be inflamatory you could print their names AND their addresses and their CHURCH affiliation.
Mostly these people are poor slobs in a bad job who finally get to lord it over some other human being. But, no one should encourage or allow them to behave in an inhumane manner. We ALL must keep reiterating the theme that "I know you are scared and 'doing your duty' but you don't have to DEHUMANIZE AND DISRESPECT ohter human beings while you do this. This job is NOT to allow you make up for all the other oppressions that have been heaped on your head by our capitalist system. STRIKE BACK AT THE MEGA RICH if you want revenge. Not poor average citizens like me and these others."
What would Jesus Christ do in a
Homeland Securtiy situation?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: MLE
Posted by: anonymous1234
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rs98101 on Aug 18, 2008 2:04 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is incidents like these that make our choice of the next president an important one. The erosion of civil liberties is one of the main reasons I've decided that Obama is the best candidate suited to restoring the freedoms that this country was founded upon. You can read more about my reasoning here:
Why This Libertarian Supports Obama
Keep standing up for our rights. You'll probably get put on a "Terrorist Watch List" now, but consider that a badge of honor!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellen Remore on Aug 18, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The purpose of the "war on terror"
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: The purpose of the "war on terror"
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: taskforceangle on Aug 18, 2008 2:11 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: meadowlake59
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: taskforceangle
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: barn
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: emmas
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: taskforceangle
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: taskforceangle
» HughScott, here's your Troll
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: Foil25
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: topbrick
» Incompetence ISN'T necessary
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lilly on Aug 18, 2008 2:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Lilly
Posted by: 114Pilot
» RE: Lilly
Posted by: heathehren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: carltrudeau on Aug 18, 2008 2:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On my last entry into Atlanta, they went through my mobile phone, asking me about each and every contact and the numbers I had called. I am making another visit to the US for the holidays but before then am taking a vacation in Syria. I can hardly wait for the interrogation I will receive in the US.
My last visit to Syria I walked across the border from Turkey and was given mint tea by the Syrians while we chatted and then they arranged a car to take me to Aleppo (for free) and all over the country I was greeted warmly with "Welcome to Syria. Thank you for visiting my country".
Sadly, the welcome from America is cold, mean and if I were not a citizen with family there, I would never return.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: America is the new USSR
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 114Pilot on Aug 18, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: meadowlake59 on Aug 18, 2008 2:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hermann Goering
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Aug 18, 2008 3:14 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's why I despise flying. You have to strip and subject yourself to humiliation and then you got this army of DHS nuts examining all your personal belongings and your ID. Good grief! Interrogations like this smirks of racial profiling.
America is such a paranoid nation that no matter where you're from, the DHS thug squads in shirts and ties seem to believe every passenger is a threat. It's probably done to justify its huge multi-billion dollar budget, to try to find threats where there are none. It's like trying to find Brazil nuts in Bostwana.
A nation that still hasn't found Osama bin Laden has questioned travelers needlessly over mundane matters that doesn't bring us closer to stopping gang violence or other societal problems here.
In its quest to find enemies we're creating more than we know; the enemy is us. DHS people should realize their interrogative tactics will not ferret out America's enemies. I feel for anyone who were detained for no reason at airports. It's sheer madness.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: swkidder on Aug 18, 2008 3:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here the author was, sitting in a room full of U.S. citizens who returning to this country, and tourists who were coming to visit this country - all of them choosing to believe that there might be some glimmers of the nation we used to be ... and the one they still hoped to find ... to be found somewhere "from sea to shining sea."
And this experience was what we gave them instead. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on anyone in the putative Homeland Security who believes this is any way to run a country, let alone keep it safe. You might want to start looking for another job, because as of January 2009, "You're Fired."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: justAnEgg on Aug 18, 2008 4:18 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's exactly how fascism prevails: "We didn't know"...
But I myself have a blunder to live with: when a security bitch shouted at me because I didn't hear her asking me the first time to get my laptop out of the bag - I APOLOGIZED.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: No surprise here, guys!
Posted by: Charz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ocsailorman on Aug 18, 2008 4:27 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-- FTP !!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: salamah on Aug 18, 2008 4:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom is desperate and desolate awaiting indictment on an accusation which is totally untrue and absurd. He is being held on accusation of being a peadophile based on files "DISCOVERED" in his Laptop. Tom? A paedophile? A blatant and outrageous LIE.
Any Good Samaritans there?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: syed salamah ali mahdi
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Hapeus Corpus
Posted by: gellero1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: darter22 on Aug 18, 2008 4:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Vote for change
Posted by: alan1111
» RE: Vote for change
Posted by: littlepear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Aug 18, 2008 6:37 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sen. Obama is a 'focus group' type of guy. And I predict Hillary will be the upset nominee. Obama is unelectable.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Dream On !!
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: Dream On !!
Posted by: tap17x
» Bill and Hillary are dyed in the wool moderate to hard core conservatives, just like turncoat Joe L!
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vt_mruhlin on Aug 18, 2008 7:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like some assholes running that place, but don't act like travel delays are some huge injustice. If you plan on international travel through the US, expect delays; expect a hassle.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lindajrjt on Aug 18, 2008 8:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tap17x on Aug 18, 2008 8:28 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Knitster on Aug 18, 2008 8:56 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Aug 18, 2008 10:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rs2008 on Aug 19, 2008 1:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since 9/11 America and UK setup these stiff anti-terrorist laws, 'draconian' policies and security that is described in the post above. It has annoyed and bothered thousands of tourists and American citizens. It has created an embarassment for thousands of you who dont want to give away your freedom.
Since 9/11 there have been no strict terrorist laws in India, no federal initiative to curb such activities and our weak Government has no policies to control extremists. Since that date there have been several dozen horrifying attacks. Several thousand innocent people have lost lives in terrorist related incidents in India since the towers collapsed in NYC. Everyday citizens live in fear of something going off in a crowded market or even hospitals (last month).
There have been ZERO incidents in America.
I wish there was Homeland Security and other measures like yours in our country.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Laws vs. Rights
Posted by: Eleusia
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: halg
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: halg
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 19, 2008 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, people still loved America and really didn't want to be anywhere else. But I found the new America unlovable. What we love is a memory. The beast that replaced her is not the same thing. It is not lovable. And it doesn't love us.
HERE'S a typical argument from those days. I chose this one because a poster named Cyclone showed some interest in the idea, and there is a dialog between us that follows the linked post, which provides a fuller explication of my argument for those that might be more receptive to it today.
As you can tell, I was becoming quite discouraged at that time preaching what I thought was a helpful message and analysis, namely, that we should begin looking around and making contingency plans for emigrating, as that is something that we may want or need to do, and that we would rather do it carefully than in the middle of the night (martial law looked like it might be forthcoming even then).
But I was getting so much hostility back that I essentially quit posting on the subject, and pretty much disappeared from AlterNet until recently. I had always hoped that many of you would see the light and get the hell out of America before these people start to hurt you, and I am delighted to see so much conversation on the subject now.
Incidentally, I have a home in another country now, although I still have my American home (which I can't sell in this market) and have occasion to visit it and attend to other matters there. I won't tell you where I've gone to, except to say that it is a Spanish speaking country in the western hemisphere, and I am very happy with it. I hope that many of you will join me here some day. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to be with decent people that aren't jaded and spoiled, that don't despise liberals, that value education, that respect age, that don't drive around talking on cell phones and that don't use religion as a weapon. Yucch.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hentrain on Aug 19, 2008 5:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fortuitously for her level of righteous indignation, Feder put her folder in the wrong pile.(it is very obvious when you walk in, one pile says "CITIZENS" one pile says "GUESTS" and they are color coded.) It is true american citizens are supposed to be seen first, perhaps this is not fair, but in Russian holding tanks, the Russians are seen first, in the EU its EU members...I am white, I am American, I have never waited in one of those tanks for more then 30 minutes, and I know I'm lucky and a 4 hour tour of that place would be no fun at all, but Feder would have a better story if she focused on problems that rang true, rather than painting the JFK holding tank as some kind of proto-Guantanamo... A huge problem that the JFK tank addresses (but that is not addressed in Boston of DC, for example) is that many people there do not speak english, so there is a strong need for workers fluent in spanish (and to hear Feder tell it, arabic and other middle eastern languages, but again, not the most authentic detail). JFK provides a number of interpreters. For me, the feel of those tanks is always to screen out foreigners with non-worker visas who are likely going to be wage earners in the US--I'm not fond of this US policy either, but I have never felt the aura of the terrorist witch hunt Feder describes.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: not the same experience I've had at JFK's tank
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: not the same experience I've had at JFK's tank
Posted by: doosra
Comments are closed-
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Aug 19, 2008 6:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look what the CIA did abroad, over the years:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fischbach on Aug 19, 2008 9:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 19, 2008 9:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: usterroristnation on Aug 19, 2008 10:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Thanks. Part I
Posted by: LMNOP
» Thanks. Part II
Posted by: LMNOP
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» Please ask a patriot
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jadelyn22 on Aug 19, 2008 12:04 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Rule of the jungle
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ule of the jungle
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Good post
Posted by: LMNOP
» Another Good post
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Another Good post
Posted by: LMNOP
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SirFelix on Aug 19, 2008 3:24 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This kind of treatment from the Airports would end immediately if Ron Paul were President.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We have a Presidential candidate
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Valerie on Aug 19, 2008 3:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, most of the commenters are too quick to use this example as a sign that the Department of Homeland Security (or the Bush Administration, even though the two should not be conflated) is disrespectful, incompetent and unaccountable as a whole. This is unfortunate. Most organizations, especially one with 180,000 employees, have moments of which they should be less than proud. That does not mean that the entire organization is corrupt.
I felt I had to comment on this chain because I too am an American citizen who returned from a pleasure trip to Lebanon and Syria this June along with several friends of multiple nationalities and (how unfortunate that we might consider this relevant) skin tones. We encountered very pleasant CBP officers and none of us were detained. I'm very aware that anecdotal evidence proves nothing, but perhaps my anecdote can be weighed against Ms. Fedora's.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A disgrace that does not represent the whole
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 4ezmoney on Aug 19, 2008 5:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1 - invoke an external and internal threat
2 - establish secret prisons
3 - develop a paramilitary force
4 - surveil ordinary citizens
5 - infiltrate citizens' groups
6 - arbitrarily detain and release citizens
7 - target key individuals
8 - restrict the press
9 - cast criticism as espionage & dissent as treason
10 - subvert the rule of law
The criminal Bush administration and its campaign against Americans fits the profile of fascism like a well worn glove.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: THE TEN STEPS TO FASCISM
Posted by: colinsyme
Comments are closed-
Posted by: copaceticindeed on Aug 19, 2008 7:23 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Skeptical....but
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Skeptical....but
Posted by: copaceticindeed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TRex08 on Aug 19, 2008 8:10 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have an idea- get rid of our borders and allow travelers to simply walk in and do what they please. Who cares if they don't have a passport? They can find work, get healthcare, get public education, social security, etc. If they committed a crime in their home country, so what? Let's wipe the slate. If they have a communicable disease, big deal. We'll take care of it. No place to stay? We'll find a place for you. No job? No worries. Hungry? Let's get you something to eat. Heck, let's just socialize the entire world like the "Federation" from Star Trek. We're ready for that small step aren't we?
So there are some CBP officers that are jerks. Big deal. I know doctors, lawyers, architects, teachers, bus drivers that are jerks. Name a profession and I'll find you a jerk that does it. So what else is new? I’ve also traveled abroad and have seen plenty of jerks at other border checkpoints.
As a society we’re still infants and CBP is a necessary evil. Deal with it or join up. I’m sure CBP is taking applications.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» Terrytom RE: Big deal!
Posted by: terryton
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeandarc on Aug 19, 2008 8:33 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: odie-wan on Aug 20, 2008 1:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a shame that a country of 250 million people is being given such a bad name by a militant, power-hungry and ignorant minority. I have no doubt that there are millions of US citizens who do not condone such barbaric behaviour.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Farrasoto on Aug 20, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mike777 on Aug 20, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: laurennn on Aug 20, 2008 2:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eagleseye on Aug 20, 2008 2:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: anonymous1234 on Aug 20, 2008 3:48 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mstenger on Aug 20, 2008 4:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: This was not TSA!!!! TSA is even worse!
Posted by: scanio
» RE: This was not TSA!!!!
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zippoflash on Aug 20, 2008 5:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marxistsocialist on Aug 20, 2008 8:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
americans are evil bastards and one day god will show them a servere punishment tramps they havent even got a country, but a corporation. they have to steal other people country....and they came from the monkeys and pigs
.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Fuck the USA. US government and its population is evil
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Fuck the USA. US government and its population is evil
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Fuck the USA. US government and its population is evil
Posted by: marxistsocialist
» RE: Fuck the USA. US government and its population is evil
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marxistsocialist on Aug 20, 2008 8:48 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Don't come to USA, americans are evil, full of hatred and greed
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Don't come to USA, americans are evil, full of hatred and greed
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: littlepear on Aug 21, 2008 4:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Section 9.
...The Privilege of the Writ of Habeas Corpus shall not be suspended, unless when in Cases of Rebellion or Invasion the public Safety may require it.
The public servant U.S. government seized the opportunity of 9/11 to suspend Habeas Corpus in the name of Homeland Security.
Now the U.S. federal government can do whatever they want to you, including torture, unlawful detainment... and they don't even have to tell you why they are detaining you.
Once they disarm us, we will see absolute Tyranny.
Please study the U.S. Constitution and check which liberties we have surrendered in the name of Homeland Security. You will be appalled.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: The Big Raven on Aug 21, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry to say but your all getting screwed into your next war. And when your all screaming for revenge because someone has had enough of your truly ignorant behaviors and they do something stupid and your goverment lets them attack you AGAIN or even takes part in what ever your evil greedy pretend leaders lets them do to more inocents dont come crying to me.
Peace only happens when ya work for it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Maybe NOW you will OBEY!!!!NEVER!
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marxistsocialist on Aug 21, 2008 7:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0UNAEyqQc7Q
This documentary movie objectively shows the fondamental difference between the criminal capitalist system of "USA" that is at odds with human rights and the genuinely benevolent Juche-based man-centered Korean-style socialist system of the Democratic people's Republic of Korea blessed with the flawless Songun leadership of Dear Leader Comrade Generalissimo Kim Jong Il the Heaven-born great brilliant Mt. Paektu type general born on the Sacred Mountain.
While "America" is the Hell on Earth for its people, living in a land of consumerist exploitation by the criminal capitalist Bush clique of hawkish warmongers who are the worst human rights violators in humankind history, suffer the intense political and social oppression awash with crime, guns, violence, prostitution, drug trafficking, murder and jaywalking, the DPRK is the utopian socialist worker's paradise of fully garanteed democratic freedoms and protected human rights providing the full enjoyment and fulfillment of a life filled with the single-minded unity of the nation in unbound loyalty and deep reverence for the Leader who is more precious than their own lives.
This is why "America" is Hell, but the DPRK is Paradise.
.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Watch the difference between US capitalist hell and humanist Korea
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scotman on Aug 21, 2008 11:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Scotmana
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jayzer on Aug 21, 2008 3:04 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When she finally got fed up and started asking questions and lodging complaints, it appeared that the Homeland Security goons finally decided that since she's a US citizen, she should have been "processed" first.
I couldn't help but wonder if it was a simple national chauvinistic reflex: i.e., our compadres come before the "furriners" or whether they figured it would be less of a headache to deal with US citizens first because Americans (at least those not totally sheep-like) are used to asserting their rights. In other words, maybe they decided that they would have an easier time of it if they could deal with those more likely to demand their rights and get them "out of the way" before turning their attention to those too easily intimidated (and perhaps unaware that they even have rights) and doing whatever they please with them.
I doubt if anyone can actually answer this, but perhaps Emily or someone else would care to venture an opinion on just why this is.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Little Slice
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Luxx on Aug 21, 2008 5:56 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
True story a friend of mine (thousands actually had the same fate) was put into a Maximum Security Prison in buffalo (Batavia) ! http://www.ice.gov/pi/dro/facilities/buffalo.htm
the humor of the devil ! it's called a Detention Facility !
Even worse they show on TV those detainees (in blue) as criminals !!! in fact it's immigration related, why the hell they are put into a maximum security prison in the 1st place !
Where's the humanity ! just for not having a VISA ! (he was taken there forcibly by the Canadians, long story)
Nobody even, I belive, knows about the grim reality of this , here's another guy had the same fate
Mohamed Cherfi
http://www.pmm.qc.ca/bledi/en/timeline.htm
"March 5, 2004
Mohamed Cherfi is dragged out of sanctuary by Quebec City Police and handed over to U.S. authorities. He is transferred to a maximum security prison in Batavia, close to Buffalo, N.Y."
Is their voice will ever be heard ! basically it's Human Rights Violation in it's worst
http://ipsnitch.net/
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: karinkdf82 on Aug 22, 2008 5:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"If this were a dictatorship, It'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.-George W. Bush, Washington D.C., Dec. 19, 2000. From About.com: Politiacl Humor
Courtesy of the most inane individual to ever scootch his butt across the Oval Office carpet. Amazing. It's like being intimidated by Forest Gump. People - its time to get confrontational each and every time an incident like this happens. This isn't about homeland security. It's about Bush thinking he's Grand Pubah.
And where is Congress? Is there nobody in the vicinity of the Congressional chambers who can help them find their spines?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Snowpuppy on Aug 23, 2008 12:09 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Department of Homeland Security is an abberration - a twisted mockery of what a security team should be doing.
Security should talk to people, look them in the eye, ask firm but polite questions as necessary - then let them move on.
But DHS is adept at treating people like crap, making enemies of visitors, and making American citizens utterly ashamed of this country.
They are applying soft-glove Abu Graib techniques at JFK. Generating humiliation, fear - but leaving people's clothes on, as far as we know. I won't speculate further at this time.
The citizens who were attacked on 9/11 are now treated as suspects by an overreaching police force called DHS (America's KGB?).
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ln9108 on Aug 24, 2008 4:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It really makes you wonder doesn't it?
Here is the link to the article on www.couriermail.com.au
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: expat201107 on Aug 24, 2008 8:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am always very sorry to hear when someone has a bad experience in the USA. I am an American and very proud of that. And I welcome new friends to visit us.
However, we are under attack from every direction. Terrorists use our kindness, our open heartedness to waltz into our country and destroy us.
When the next attack comes (and it will), it will be this same group of complainers that say, where was Homeland security? Where was the FBI? Why wasn't I protected??
I travel alot. I have been to some very inhospitable places. Even in some hospitable countries (Pakistan, Israel, etc), the treatment for foreign nationals that are possible security threats is the same or WORSE. And there are NO apologies for that. Priority #1 one is the safety of the people in that country.
Americans, we need to grow up. The world is a nasty place where bad things happend to the nicest people. The only way to keep us safe in our own country is to ZEALOUSLY guard ourselves.
Again - apologies to anyone that has suffered. Keep in mind Homeland security is comprised of peple with only a brief training period and paid very little usually. I am white skinned American and I have been treated less than politely numerous times. My aoplogies go especially naturalized patriotic citizens. You have my respect and appreciation for adopting my home country as your own. I hope you prosper and enjoy America. Regards.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
Comments are closed-
Posted by: usterroristnation on Aug 25, 2008 6:40 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GaryDavis on Aug 25, 2008 9:26 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
she was held for 24 hours, confined to a chair (all night) with almost no food, and subjected to continual abuse including both sexual and racial harassment. In one minute they challenged her ability to finance her trip, and the next minute they ridiculed her designer clothes and Rolex watch. She was denied access to a lawyer; she was denied any outside contact or assistance. Finally she was coerced to sign a release form - without being allowed to read it - and shipped out on the next flight home.
As a final insult: during a layover stop on the flight home, the airline assigned an armed guard to my friend, to ensure that she couldn't escape or something - and the airline demanded that she pay the cost to hire her guard.
This is not an isolated incident: it happens routinely and often. It is triggered based solely on the judgement of any individual customs agent, from which there is, by law, no appeal to anyone anywhere. Any visitor to the US is assumed, by law, to have "immigrant intent" - in other words, anyone entering on a "visitor" visa is presumed to be committing fraud by entering as a visitor and intending to stay, unless they can convince the customs agent that they are a legitimate visitor. And that's a very subjective judgement, to put it mildly.
You can't blame the law on the Bush administration; it was passed in 1952. But the Bush adminstration has used it much more aggressively than previous administrations.
Here's another such story, from a reasonably reliable source:
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/05/14/us/14visa.html
A lawyer from Italy was stopped at JFK airport and held in jail for ten days without charges, and was released only when the New York Times started asking about him.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wwittman on Aug 18, 2008 12:53 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I congratulate you on your bravery in the face of intimidation.
But would you REALLY put it past these guys to act beyond their actual legal constraints?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Actual legal constraints?
Posted by: Jayzer
» RE: You SURE you had nothing to lose?
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» The US is so damned scary...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: The US is so damned scary...
Posted by: emmas
» Oops
Posted by: emmas
» RE: You SURE you had nothing to lose?
Posted by: nen
» In a way this is good
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» Everywhere a Terrorist
Posted by: karinkdf82
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bryangalt on Aug 18, 2008 1:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am embarrassed for America and Americans if this is how the Bush administration thinks they are keeping the country safe. This just adds to the long, long list of incompetent decisions made by him and his band of criminals.
To the people that were held like cattle, I would extend my apologies to you. As an American citizen, not an agent of the Bush administration, I can tell you that I am appalled and shocked to read about what you went through.
I hope you never have to endure such outageous treatment again.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: nochicagoboys
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: HillbillyBob
» "Land of the free, home of the brave, my arse!"
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: It was heroic
Posted by: deang
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Aug 18, 2008 3:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, my artificial hip set off the metal detector. So they had to pass an electronic wand over my body as though I were a suicider.
Next, my cane got scutinized, as if it were a pipe bomb. And finally, my shoes wee examined for explosives.
With all that in mind, here's how I now deal with airport security. I don't! I wouldn't fly again if they paid me.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» CORRECTION: "wee" should be WERE. (I need new glasses!)
Posted by: HughScott
» I wouldn't fly again if they paid me.
Posted by: soundman
» I hear you, soundman. Lucky for me, being a retired airline employee, I ...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: UnderTheSea
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: deang
» I'm not afraid to fly, deang. I just can't stand the hassle!
Posted by: HughScott
» I think it's all about control, UnderTheSea. Airport security loves treating people liks sheep.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: Angie
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: HillbillyBob
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: sirios
» Why are you so angry, sirios? Did you have a bad childhood?
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Why are you so angry, sirios? Did you have a bad childhood?
Posted by: sirios
» Sirios, I Ihink you have me confused with someone who gives a shit.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Why are you so angry, sirios? Did you have a bad childhood?
Posted by: wolfgangmo75
» So how was your childhood, wolfgangmo7
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: How I deal with airport security
Posted by: joe2171
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rinthy on Aug 18, 2008 3:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rinthy
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Nostalgia
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Nostalgia
Posted by: Keegan
» RE: ights and Liberties
Posted by: seslabaugh
Comments are closed-
Posted by: akai ringo on Aug 18, 2008 3:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Ordinary American citizens...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: tuelster
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: deang
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: justAnEgg
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: Stay away from the U.S.
Posted by: abersabeel
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eyebox on Aug 18, 2008 4:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When consistent violation of fundamental human rights masquerades as 'democracy' and the population sits back and does nothing, we have a recipe for the disaster that the US is quickly becoming.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: nacnud
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: deang
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: Harris20
» RE: Watching my country deteriorate
Posted by: deang
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CJC on Aug 18, 2008 4:48 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yesterday's NYTimes travel section had a question from a reader about whether it was possible for a woman to travel safely in Syria. The gist of the answer was that Syria had a restrictive government and therefore conditions for tourists were safe. As for the traveler being a woman the advice was to dress modestly.
No mention was made of possible confinement for hours at JFK on one's return.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dougo on Aug 18, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Gulag America
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Why wait til November?
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Gulag America
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: Gulag America
Posted by: UnderTheSea
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LionHeart on Aug 18, 2008 5:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does this sound familar - Japanese American internment camps during WW2. Terrorists do not need to bomb us again or fight to take away our freedoms, we are doing a good job of it ourselves!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Our own worst enemy
Posted by: Keegan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blacktiger on Aug 18, 2008 5:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: camanokat
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I am Canadian
Posted by: Blacktiger
» That's why it's so important...
Posted by: LeaderofMen
» RE: That's why it's so important...
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: That's why it's so important...
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: That's why it's so important...
Posted by: Harris20
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Germanicus on Aug 18, 2008 5:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would agree with the comment above -- if you are not a Yank and have no need to go there, stay away. Don't be tempted by the cheap holiday, the bargain-basement clothes and electronics.
That last bit may need explaining to American readers. You see, as the value of the dollar has plunged, the relative value of other currencies has sky-rocketed, so travelling to America is really cheap. You know, the way it used to be for Americans going to Mexico. I guess, now that we are headed for the status of a Banana Republic, we have the sadistic civil servants to go with it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: deang
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Another Happy Expat
Posted by: halg
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
Comments are closed-
Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Aug 18, 2008 5:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We sat for three hours in a crowded room where we were the only Americans. Actually we stood because all the seats were taken. Most of the people who were detained along with us were either Pakistani, Indian or Arabs. The guards and people behind the glass sitting at cubicles with computer screens completely ignored us or answered our questions mostly by saying, you'll have to wait your turn.
At the end of the three hours, an official approached us quietly from a side door, handed us back our passports and acted very apologetic (although no apology or explanation was given for our being held). He directed us to the elevator and told us how to exit the building.
The ridiculousness of this episode cannot be overemphasized especially when we had crossed the border via the pedestrian bridge across the falls several times that same day, without incident. In fact, most of the time no one was there. I believe my friend and I were detained because he is dark skinned, and I wear the hijab. That time was about 2 weeks after the Pakistani British men were caught in the UK plotting to blow up Heathrow Airport. So all Pakistanis were suspect, and all people having had anything to do with Pakistan.
This isn't fighting terrorism. This is terrorism.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: emmas
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: purplemcfadden
» RE: Me Too
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ellie on Aug 18, 2008 6:18 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
homeland security is just a new layer of unnecessarily ridiculous bureaucracy we didn't need or ask for... the best we can hope for is dismantling it, it's a waste of the $$ you are spending here (remember, we're broke)and doesn't do anything for anyone...
please do not come here unless you have any other choice... do your business over the internet, by phone and fax...
if the US can detain (imprison for hours or years) and deport its own citizens (to where, we don't know... just because an american visited your country doesn't mean your country wants american refugees)...
please take your vacation $$ to other countries where you can be safe and enjoy your adventure... we the majority of american people are sorry that this mess exists, the vast majority of us would love to meet you and your families, show you this beautiful country, but it is risky or actually dangerous for you to come here...
remember, we are trapped here too... many americans would love to get the hell out, but can't get the documents needed to satisfy the state department to get a passport to get out, let alone back in... and still risk imprisonment when we do return for stupid stuff...
we're sorry... truly sorry
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: akai ringo
» Not just to itself...
Posted by: Cathyc
» No need to apologize for the crimes of others...
Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: No need to apologize for the crimes of others...
Posted by: zizizzi
» The people of the USA are complicit
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: No need to apologize for the crimes of others...
Posted by: Karina
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: emmas
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: zizizzi
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: Krotos
» If you are an American citizen
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: AMerrickanGirl
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: emmas
» RE: note to the rest of the universe...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
Comments are closed-
Posted by: curiousdwk on Aug 18, 2008 6:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Allstar Cookie on Aug 18, 2008 7:10 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been their practice long before this current administration set foot in Washington.
Many have been complaining for the last five years that the money we're spending on the Iraq war would have been better spent on securing our borders. I know that's what Hillary Clinton cried about.
So what does that really mean??
More money really won't help outside of future advances in technology. At the Peace Bridge, there are about 20 bays for cars to pass thru.......so it's fairly limited as to what can be done to "protect" our borders...outside of asking questions.
There's no doubt that some border patrol agents act like thugs and we need to get rid of them ASAP. They need to be tactful, and respectful....and holding people for hours without any explanation has to end.
But profiling is a necessary evil in law enforcement.... whether you agree with the practice or not.
As far as this story, I think the author stretched the truth so that she could justify the last paragraph of her article.
Allstar Cookie
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: clasicgrl
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: swischeese
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: seslabaugh
» lack of understanding?????
Posted by: halg
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: kiel
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: nickl
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished ... Lah-Lah-Lah!
Posted by: copaceticindeed
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: logic
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: nickl
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: abEeyore
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» Rickets, too
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ickets, too
Posted by: Allstar Cookie
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: seslabaugh
» Once again, here is seslabaugh to tell us why we are ALL wrong
Posted by: halg
» I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: abatto
» RE: I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: I have never been treated worse than in my own country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Story seems a bit embellished to me, and as far.......
Posted by: Genevieve
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blacktiger on Aug 18, 2008 7:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: luzmejor
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: zipoka
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: Blacktiger
» RE: Your Southern border fence
Posted by: rhinojos
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 18, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RD
Is your ISP watching?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: The new Regime!
Posted by: Keegan
» RE: The new Regime!
Posted by: deang
» If the USA was a communist state
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: If the USA was a communist state
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: colinsyme on Aug 18, 2008 7:30 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: colin syme
Posted by: purplemcfadden
» RE: colin syme
Posted by: morticia
» RE: colin syme
Posted by: colinsyme
» Cool!
Posted by: morticia
» RE: Cool!
Posted by: colinsyme
» RE: Cool!
Posted by: morticia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Keegan on Aug 18, 2008 7:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: America
Posted by: topbrick
» Eh?
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burtonger on Aug 18, 2008 8:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Simply "AVOID AMERICA AT ANY COST"
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nikolai on Aug 18, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seriously tho, Homeland Security was created for 3 reasons;
1. So that it would at least APPEAR that the gov't was doing something about "terrorism".
2. To create more "cops". The wealthy folks in this country like to keep the rest of us in line; the more cops the better. The fact that HS people are not really cops makes it all the worse. Here are a bunch of hillbillies with NO real authority illegally detaining you and usurping your rights for NO valid reason!
3. The CIA, FBI, DEA, ATF, INS, NSA, etc were NOT(prior to 911) doing their jobs properly (the proof is in the pudding after all) and are STILL NOT doing their jobs properly, and weren't and still are NOT sharing information, so instead of FIXING THIS PROBLEM between all of these renegade agencies, what does the gov't do? THEY CREATE ANOTHER ONE!!!
Homeland Security is just a bunch of undereducated people who are benefitting from 911 in the creation of new jobs and they have to act like they're doing something to earn their shekels, I mean, dollars.
The bottom line is that this agency and the reasons it was created are a national disgrace.
My apologies to the citizens of all countries who have been detained by HS. There are still many REASONING Americans who do NOT agree with this agency and the reason(s) it was created, and the administration that created it.As a once proud American I for one APOLOGIZE for this SHAM of an agency, and assure you many other decent Americans feel the same!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Godda*n A-rabs are ED-U-KATED!
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: leafsong1 on Aug 18, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: logic on Aug 18, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: oregoncharles on Aug 18, 2008 11:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is essentially Immigration. They have a very basic, necessary job: to make sure your passport is genuine and you are who you say you are. If they can also catch some dangerous people, so much the better, but identification is the essence of their job.
So why, in this age of telecommunications and databases, does it take them hour upon hour to do their basic job? They should be able to do that in a few minutes, without making people miss their planes. If they can't, we're in real trouble.
This also has implications for the "profiling" issue. There really is a terrorist profile. It's very bad luck if you're a somewhat rootless young man from certain countries. But the profile does NOT include, for instance, American college students or middle-aged doctors (examples from my personal experience) - nor this American woman. First question: why are they wasting their time, and our money, on such people? Check their passports and send them on their way.
(Profiling can also be very dangerous, a form of carelessness. It's easy to evade by finding someone who doesn't fit the stereotype. For one example, there are plenty of blonde Muslims. Hence the random searches.)
If you are going to give certain people extra attention on the basis of an informed profile, it makes a big difference if you can do it QUICKLY. Ten minutes and answering a few (polite!) questions is a very minor inconvenience, and could serve everyone's interests. No harm, no foul. But the people described are clearly being harmed.
Why? One friend's theory is that the DHS people are simply underpaid, unhappy sadists getting their jollies. It does seem obvious that they are sadistic, stupid racists. But the real problem is that, for whatever reason (mostly incompetence and irresponsibility at very high levels), they can't actually do the legitimate job they're asked to do.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» good point
Posted by: ReallyBearish
» RE: Incompetence
Posted by: deang
» Blonde Muslim
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: morticia on Aug 18, 2008 12:36 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 7 Levels on Aug 18, 2008 12:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BobNoxious on Aug 18, 2008 12:53 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any crime is legal if the perpetrator is in a uniform.
I need to get myself a uniform so that I can be reckless and criminal without fear of any retribution.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Aug 18, 2008 1:26 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RD
Ultimate Anonymity
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: praedor on Aug 18, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FUCK the Gestapo of the Dept of der Fatherland Security!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: JJG on Aug 18, 2008 1:28 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: More professionalism needed.
Posted by: praedor
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thekidde on Aug 18, 2008 1:48 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net on Aug 18, 2008 2:00 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only way to stop the petty and the horrendous large aggressions against people is to NAME THE JOHNS involved. Could they sue you? You are simply telling a story, giving your perspective. If you really wanted to be inflamatory you could print their names AND their addresses and their CHURCH affiliation.
Mostly these people are poor slobs in a bad job who finally get to lord it over some other human being. But, no one should encourage or allow them to behave in an inhumane manner. We ALL must keep reiterating the theme that "I know you are scared and 'doing your duty' but you don't have to DEHUMANIZE AND DISRESPECT ohter human beings while you do this. This job is NOT to allow you make up for all the other oppressions that have been heaped on your head by our capitalist system. STRIKE BACK AT THE MEGA RICH if you want revenge. Not poor average citizens like me and these others."
What would Jesus Christ do in a
Homeland Securtiy situation?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: MLE
Posted by: anonymous1234
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rs98101 on Aug 18, 2008 2:04 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is incidents like these that make our choice of the next president an important one. The erosion of civil liberties is one of the main reasons I've decided that Obama is the best candidate suited to restoring the freedoms that this country was founded upon. You can read more about my reasoning here:
Why This Libertarian Supports Obama
Keep standing up for our rights. You'll probably get put on a "Terrorist Watch List" now, but consider that a badge of honor!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ellen Remore on Aug 18, 2008 2:08 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The purpose of the "war on terror"
Posted by: topbrick
» RE: The purpose of the "war on terror"
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: taskforceangle on Aug 18, 2008 2:11 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: meadowlake59
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: taskforceangle
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: barn
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: emmas
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: taskforceangle
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: taskforceangle
» HughScott, here's your Troll
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: Foil25
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: unfortunate but necessary
Posted by: topbrick
» Incompetence ISN'T necessary
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lilly on Aug 18, 2008 2:15 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Lilly
Posted by: 114Pilot
» RE: Lilly
Posted by: heathehren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: carltrudeau on Aug 18, 2008 2:42 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On my last entry into Atlanta, they went through my mobile phone, asking me about each and every contact and the numbers I had called. I am making another visit to the US for the holidays but before then am taking a vacation in Syria. I can hardly wait for the interrogation I will receive in the US.
My last visit to Syria I walked across the border from Turkey and was given mint tea by the Syrians while we chatted and then they arranged a car to take me to Aleppo (for free) and all over the country I was greeted warmly with "Welcome to Syria. Thank you for visiting my country".
Sadly, the welcome from America is cold, mean and if I were not a citizen with family there, I would never return.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: America is the new USSR
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 114Pilot on Aug 18, 2008 2:50 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: meadowlake59 on Aug 18, 2008 2:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hermann Goering
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Aug 18, 2008 3:14 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's why I despise flying. You have to strip and subject yourself to humiliation and then you got this army of DHS nuts examining all your personal belongings and your ID. Good grief! Interrogations like this smirks of racial profiling.
America is such a paranoid nation that no matter where you're from, the DHS thug squads in shirts and ties seem to believe every passenger is a threat. It's probably done to justify its huge multi-billion dollar budget, to try to find threats where there are none. It's like trying to find Brazil nuts in Bostwana.
A nation that still hasn't found Osama bin Laden has questioned travelers needlessly over mundane matters that doesn't bring us closer to stopping gang violence or other societal problems here.
In its quest to find enemies we're creating more than we know; the enemy is us. DHS people should realize their interrogative tactics will not ferret out America's enemies. I feel for anyone who were detained for no reason at airports. It's sheer madness.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: swkidder on Aug 18, 2008 3:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here the author was, sitting in a room full of U.S. citizens who returning to this country, and tourists who were coming to visit this country - all of them choosing to believe that there might be some glimmers of the nation we used to be ... and the one they still hoped to find ... to be found somewhere "from sea to shining sea."
And this experience was what we gave them instead. SHAME, SHAME, SHAME on anyone in the putative Homeland Security who believes this is any way to run a country, let alone keep it safe. You might want to start looking for another job, because as of January 2009, "You're Fired."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: justAnEgg on Aug 18, 2008 4:18 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's exactly how fascism prevails: "We didn't know"...
But I myself have a blunder to live with: when a security bitch shouted at me because I didn't hear her asking me the first time to get my laptop out of the bag - I APOLOGIZED.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: No surprise here, guys!
Posted by: Charz
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ocsailorman on Aug 18, 2008 4:27 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-- FTP !!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: salamah on Aug 18, 2008 4:46 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom is desperate and desolate awaiting indictment on an accusation which is totally untrue and absurd. He is being held on accusation of being a peadophile based on files "DISCOVERED" in his Laptop. Tom? A paedophile? A blatant and outrageous LIE.
Any Good Samaritans there?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: syed salamah ali mahdi
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» Hapeus Corpus
Posted by: gellero1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: darter22 on Aug 18, 2008 4:52 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Vote for change
Posted by: alan1111
» RE: Vote for change
Posted by: littlepear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gellero1 on Aug 18, 2008 6:37 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sen. Obama is a 'focus group' type of guy. And I predict Hillary will be the upset nominee. Obama is unelectable.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Dream On !!
Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: Dream On !!
Posted by: tap17x
» Bill and Hillary are dyed in the wool moderate to hard core conservatives, just like turncoat Joe L!
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vt_mruhlin on Aug 18, 2008 7:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sounds like some assholes running that place, but don't act like travel delays are some huge injustice. If you plan on international travel through the US, expect delays; expect a hassle.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lindajrjt on Aug 18, 2008 8:19 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: tap17x on Aug 18, 2008 8:28 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Knitster on Aug 18, 2008 8:56 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Aug 18, 2008 10:15 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A Vast Right Wing Conspiracy
Posted by: halg
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rs2008 on Aug 19, 2008 1:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since 9/11 America and UK setup these stiff anti-terrorist laws, 'draconian' policies and security that is described in the post above. It has annoyed and bothered thousands of tourists and American citizens. It has created an embarassment for thousands of you who dont want to give away your freedom.
Since 9/11 there have been no strict terrorist laws in India, no federal initiative to curb such activities and our weak Government has no policies to control extremists. Since that date there have been several dozen horrifying attacks. Several thousand innocent people have lost lives in terrorist related incidents in India since the towers collapsed in NYC. Everyday citizens live in fear of something going off in a crowded market or even hospitals (last month).
There have been ZERO incidents in America.
I wish there was Homeland Security and other measures like yours in our country.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Laws vs. Rights
Posted by: Eleusia
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: halg
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: halg
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: I Wish We Could Do This In Our Country
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LMNOP on Aug 19, 2008 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Also, people still loved America and really didn't want to be anywhere else. But I found the new America unlovable. What we love is a memory. The beast that replaced her is not the same thing. It is not lovable. And it doesn't love us.
HERE'S a typical argument from those days. I chose this one because a poster named Cyclone showed some interest in the idea, and there is a dialog between us that follows the linked post, which provides a fuller explication of my argument for those that might be more receptive to it today.
As you can tell, I was becoming quite discouraged at that time preaching what I thought was a helpful message and analysis, namely, that we should begin looking around and making contingency plans for emigrating, as that is something that we may want or need to do, and that we would rather do it carefully than in the middle of the night (martial law looked like it might be forthcoming even then).
But I was getting so much hostility back that I essentially quit posting on the subject, and pretty much disappeared from AlterNet until recently. I had always hoped that many of you would see the light and get the hell out of America before these people start to hurt you, and I am delighted to see so much conversation on the subject now.
Incidentally, I have a home in another country now, although I still have my American home (which I can't sell in this market) and have occasion to visit it and attend to other matters there. I won't tell you where I've gone to, except to say that it is a Spanish speaking country in the western hemisphere, and I am very happy with it. I hope that many of you will join me here some day. I can't tell you what a pleasure it is to be with decent people that aren't jaded and spoiled, that don't despise liberals, that value education, that respect age, that don't drive around talking on cell phones and that don't use religion as a weapon. Yucch.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: hentrain on Aug 19, 2008 5:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fortuitously for her level of righteous indignation, Feder put her folder in the wrong pile.(it is very obvious when you walk in, one pile says "CITIZENS" one pile says "GUESTS" and they are color coded.) It is true american citizens are supposed to be seen first, perhaps this is not fair, but in Russian holding tanks, the Russians are seen first, in the EU its EU members...I am white, I am American, I have never waited in one of those tanks for more then 30 minutes, and I know I'm lucky and a 4 hour tour of that place would be no fun at all, but Feder would have a better story if she focused on problems that rang true, rather than painting the JFK holding tank as some kind of proto-Guantanamo... A huge problem that the JFK tank addresses (but that is not addressed in Boston of DC, for example) is that many people there do not speak english, so there is a strong need for workers fluent in spanish (and to hear Feder tell it, arabic and other middle eastern languages, but again, not the most authentic detail). JFK provides a number of interpreters. For me, the feel of those tanks is always to screen out foreigners with non-worker visas who are likely going to be wage earners in the US--I'm not fond of this US policy either, but I have never felt the aura of the terrorist witch hunt Feder describes.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: not the same experience I've had at JFK's tank
Posted by: seslabaugh
» RE: not the same experience I've had at JFK's tank
Posted by: doosra
Comments are closed-
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com on Aug 19, 2008 6:55 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look what the CIA did abroad, over the years:
http://www.huppi.com/kangaroo/CIAtimeline.html
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fischbach on Aug 19, 2008 9:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Godfather89 on Aug 19, 2008 9:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: usterroristnation on Aug 19, 2008 10:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Thanks. Part I
Posted by: LMNOP
» Thanks. Part II
Posted by: LMNOP
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» Please ask a patriot
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: usterroristnation
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jadelyn22 on Aug 19, 2008 12:04 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Rule of the jungle
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: ule of the jungle
Posted by: BigElectricCat
» Good post
Posted by: LMNOP
» Another Good post
Posted by: Aposterioriperception
» RE: Another Good post
Posted by: LMNOP
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SirFelix on Aug 19, 2008 3:24 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This kind of treatment from the Airports would end immediately if Ron Paul were President.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We have a Presidential candidate
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Valerie on Aug 19, 2008 3:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, most of the commenters are too quick to use this example as a sign that the Department of Homeland Security (or the Bush Administration, even though the two should not be conflated) is disrespectful, incompetent and unaccountable as a whole. This is unfortunate. Most organizations, especially one with 180,000 employees, have moments of which they should be less than proud. That does not mean that the entire organization is corrupt.
I felt I had to comment on this chain because I too am an American citizen who returned from a pleasure trip to Lebanon and Syria this June along with several friends of multiple nationalities and (how unfortunate that we might consider this relevant) skin tones. We encountered very pleasant CBP officers and none of us were detained. I'm very aware that anecdotal evidence proves nothing, but perhaps my anecdote can be weighed against Ms. Fedora's.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: A disgrace that does not represent the whole
Posted by: beautifulady2003
Comments are closed-
Posted by: 4ezmoney on Aug 19, 2008 5:24 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1 - invoke an external and internal threat
2 - establish secret prisons
3 - develop a paramilitary force
4 - surveil ordinary citizens
5 - infiltrate citizens' groups
6 - arbitrarily detain and release citizens
7 - target key individuals
8 - restrict the press
9 - cast criticism as espionage & dissent as treason
10 - subvert the rule of law
The criminal Bush administration and its campaign against Americans fits the profile of fascism like a well worn glove.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: THE TEN STEPS TO FASCISM
Posted by: colinsyme
Comments are closed-
Posted by: copaceticindeed on Aug 19, 2008 7:23 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Skeptical....but
Posted by: beautifulady2003
» RE: Skeptical....but
Posted by: copaceticindeed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TRex08 on Aug 19, 2008 8:10 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have an idea- get rid of our borders and allow travelers to simply walk in and do what they please. Who cares if they don't have a passport? They can find work, get healthcare, get public education, social security, etc. If they committed a crime in their home country, so what? Let's wipe the slate. If they have a communicable disease, big deal. We'll take care of it. No place to stay? We'll find a place for you. No job? No worries. Hungry? Let's get you something to eat. Heck, let's just socialize the entire world like the "Federation" from Star Trek. We're ready for that small step aren't we?
So there are some CBP officers that are jerks. Big deal. I know doctors, lawyers, architects, teachers, bus drivers that are jerks. Name a profession and I'll find you a jerk that does it. So what else is new? I’ve also traveled abroad and have seen plenty of jerks at other border checkpoints.
As a society we’re still infants and CBP is a necessary evil. Deal with it or join up. I’m sure CBP is taking applications.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
» Terrytom RE: Big deal!
Posted by: terryton
» usterroristnation
Posted by: usterroristnation
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jeandarc on Aug 19, 2008 8:33 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: odie-wan on Aug 20, 2008 1:44 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a shame that a country of 250 million people is being given such a bad name by a militant, power-hungry and ignorant minority. I have no doubt that there are millions of US citizens who do not condone such barbaric behaviour.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Farrasoto on Aug 20, 2008 8:30 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mike777 on Aug 20, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: DRAMA DRAMA DRAMA!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Jayzer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: laurennn on Aug 20, 2008 2:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eagleseye on Aug 20, 2008 2:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: anonymous1234 on Aug 20, 2008 3:48 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mstenger on Aug 20, 2008 4:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: This was not TSA!!!! TSA is even worse!
Posted by: scanio
» RE: This was not TSA!!!!
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zippoflash on Aug 20, 2008 5:54 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
