COMMENTS: 110
Nine Reasons to Investigate War Crimes Now
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"There is no longer any doubt as to whether the current administration has committed war crimes. The only question that remains to be answered is whether those who ordered the use of torture will be held to account."
Should those who ordered war crimes be held to account? With the conclusion of the Bush regime approaching, many people are dubious, even those horrified by Administration actions. They fear a long, divisive ordeal that could tear the country apart. They note that such division could make it far harder for the country to address the many other crises it is facing. They see the upcoming elections as a better way to set the country on a new path.
Many Democrats in particular are proposing to let bygones be bygones and move on to confront the problems of the future, rather than dwelling on the past. The Democratic leadership sees rising gas prices, foreclosures, and health care costs, as well as widespread dissatisfaction with the direction of the country, as playing in their favor. Why risk it all by playing the war crimes blame game? Perhaps some Democratic leaders are also concerned that their own role in enabling or even encouraging war crimes might be exposed.
Meanwhile, the evidence confirming not only a deliberate policy of torture, but of conspiring in an illegal war of aggression and conducting a criminal occupation, continues to pile ever higher. Bush's own press secretary Scott McClellan has revealed in his book, What Happened, how deliberately the public was misled to foment the attack on Iraq. Philippe Sands' new book, Torture Team, has shown how the top legal and political leadership fought for a policy of torture -- circumventing and misleading top military officials to do so. Jane Mayer's The Dark Side, reveals that a secret report by the Red Cross -- given to the CIA and shared with President Bush and Condoleezza Rice -- found that U.S. interrogation methods are "categorically" torture and that the "abuse constituted war crimes, placing the highest officials in the U.S. government in jeopardy of being prosecuted."
Despite the reluctance to open what many see as a can of worms, there are fresh moves on many fronts to hold top U.S. officials accountable for war crimes.
Courts: U.S. courts have issued a barrage of decisions against the Administration's claim that they can do anything and still be within the law. The Supreme Court ruled June 12 that the Administration cannot deny habeas corpus rights to Guantánamo detainees. The DC Circuit Court of Appeals on June 30 overturned the Pentagon's enemy combatant designation of a Chinese Muslim held in Guantánamo for the last six years. A Maine jury in April acquitted the Bangor Six of criminal trespass charges stemming from protesters' claim that the "Constitution was being violated by the Bush Administration's involvement in Iraq."
Congressional investigation: Rep. John Conyers has recently brought top policy-makers, including former Deputy Assistant Attorney General John Yoo, Vice President Cheney's Chief of Staff David Addington, and this week former Undersecretary of Defense Douglas Feith and former Attorney General John Ashcroft before a House Judiciary subcommittee and grilled them on their role crafting the Administration's torture policy.
Senate hearings in June revealed that treatment of Guantánamo captives was modeled on techniques allegedly used by Communist China to force false confessions from U.S. soldiers.
Impeachment: Despite Majority Leader Nancy Pelosi's instruction to keep impeachment "off the table," Rep. Dennis Kucinich for the first time brought an impeachment resolution to the House floor that incorporated a devastating, thirty-five article indictment spelling out Bush Administration war crimes and crimes against the Constitution. Now Rep. Conyers has announced that the Judiciary Committee will hold hearings on the charges July 25. Even after the Bush Administration leaves office, the judges it appointed who appear complicit in war crimes -- notably torture policy architect Judge Jay S. Bybee -- could still be impeached.
Truth commission: In response to General Taguba's accusations, New York Times Op-Ed columnist Nicholas D. Kristof has just called for the establishment of a truth commission -- like that of post-Apartheid South Africa -- with subpoena power to investigate the abuses in the aftermath of 9/11 and "lead a process of soul searching and national cleansing."
International: In May, Vanity Fair magazine published an article by British human rights attorney Philippe Sands, in which he described the reasons Administration lawyers face a real risk of criminal investigations if they stray beyond U.S. borders. The British parliament is about to launch an investigation of Washington's lying to the British government about its use of its facilities for "extraordinary rendition." Constitutional lawyer Jonathan Turley recently said, "I think it might in fact be time for the United States to be held internationally to a tribunal. I never thought in my lifetime I would say that." Colin Powell's former chief of staff Lawrence Wilkerson publicly advised Feith, Addington, And Albert Gonzales "never to travel outside the U.S., except perhaps to Saudi Arabia and Israel."
Prosecution: According to a recent Mellman Group survey commissioned by the American Civil Liberties Union, Americans of all political stripes overwhelmingly support the appointment of an independent prosecutor to investigate both the destruction of the CIA's interrogation tapes and the possible use of torture by the agency. Every segment of the electorate -- including majorities of Democrats (82 percent), independents (62 percent), and Republicans (51 percent) -- want to hold this administration accountable for its role in the destruction of the torture tapes.
Vincent Bugliosi, the former Los Angeles County Prosecutor who has won twenty-one convictions in murder trials, including Charles Manson's, has just published The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder, which argues that there is overwhelming evidence President Bush took the nation to war in Iraq under false pretenses and must be prosecuted for the consequent deaths of over 4,000 U.S. soldiers.
Dean Lawrence Velvel of the Massachusetts School of Law at Andover is planning a September conference to map out war crimes prosecutions against President Bush and other administration officials. Velvel says that "plans will be laid and necessary organizational structures set up, to pursue the guilty as long as necessary and, if need be, to the ends of the Earth." Reps. John Conyers, Jerrold Nadler, and Bill Delahunt have called on Attorney General Michael Mukasey to appoint a special counsel to investigate the rendition of Canadian citizen Maher Arar to Syria.
Citizen action: Voters in Brattleboro and Marlboro, Vermont this spring approved a measure that instructs police to arrest President George W. Bush and Vice President Dick Cheney for "crimes against our Constitution," should they venture into those precincts.
All these developments suggest approaches that might be used to hold Bush Administration war criminals accountable. Establishing accountability for U.S. war crimes in the Iraq war era is the sine qua non for initiating a new era on different principles. Here are nine reasons why we must not let bygones be bygones:
1. World peace cannot be achieved without human rights and accountability.
According to Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson, chief American prosecutor at the Nuremberg Tribunals, "The ultimate step in avoiding periodic wars, which are inevitable in a system of international lawlessness, is to make statesmen responsible to law." Moving in that direction will be impossible unless such responsibility applies to the statesmen of the world's most powerful countries, and above all the world's sole superpower. U.S. support for the war crimes charges like those just brought by the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court against Sudanese President Omar al-Bashir will represent little more than hypocrisy if U.S. Presidents are not held to the same standard.
2. The rule of law is central to our democracy.
Most Americans believe that even the highest officials are bound by law. If we send mentally-disabled juveniles to prison as adults, but let government officials who authorize torture and launch illegal wars go scot-free, we destroy the very basis of the rule of law.
3. We must not allow precedents to be set that promote war crimes.
Executive action unchallenged by Congress changes the way our law is interpreted. According to Robert Borosage, writing for Huffington Post, "If Bush's extreme assertions of power are not challenged by the Congress, they end up not simply creating new law, they could end up rewriting the Constitution itself."
4. We must restore the principles of democracy to our government.
The claim that the President, as commander-in-chief, can exercise the unlimited powers of a king or dictator strikes at the very heart of our democracy. As Supreme Court Justice Robert Jackson put it, we, as citizens, would "submit ourselves to rules only if under rules." Countries like Chile can attest that the restoration of democracy and the rule of law requires more than voting a new party into office -- it requires a rejection of impunity for the criminal acts of government officials.
5. We must forestall an imperialist resurgence.
When they are out of office, the advocates of imperial expansion and global domination have proven brilliant at lying in wait to undermine and destroy their opponents.
They did it to destroy the presidencies of Jimmy Carter and Bill Clinton. They'll do it again to an Obama Administration unless their machinations are exposed and discredited first.
6. We must have national consensus on the real reasons for the Bush Administration's failures.
Republicans are preparing to dominate future decades of American politics by blaming the failure of the Iraq war on those who "sent a signal" that the U.S. would not "stay the course" whatever the cost. Establishing the real reasons for the failure of the U.S. in Iraq -- the criminal and anti-democratic character of the war -- is the necessary condition for defeating that effort.
7. We must restore America's damaged reputation abroad.
The world has watched as the United States -- the self-proclaimed steward of democracy -- has systematically broken the letter and spirit of its Constitution, violated international treaties, and ignored basic moral tenets of humanity. As former Navy General Counsel Alberto Mora recently pointed out to the Senate Armed Services Committee, our nation's "policy of cruelty" has violated our "overarching foreign policy interests and our national security." To establish international legitimacy, we must demonstrate that we are capable of holding our leaders to account.
8. We must lay the basis for major change in U.S. foreign policy.
Real security in the era of global warming and nuclear proliferation must be based on international cooperation. But genuine cooperation requires that the U.S. entirely repudiate the course of the past eight years. The American people must understand why international cooperation rather than pursuit of global domination is necessary to their own security. And other countries must be convinced that we really mean it.
9. We must deter future U.S. war crimes.
The specter of more war crimes haunts our future. Rumors continue to circulate about an American or American-backed Israeli attack on Iran. A recently introduced House resolution promoted by AIPAC "demands" that the President initiate what is effectively a blockade against Iran -- an act seen by some as tantamount to a declaration of war. Nothing could provide a greater deterrent to such future war crimes than establishing accountability for those of the past.
Holding war criminals accountable will require placing the long-term well-being of our country and the world ahead of short-term political advantage. As Rep. Wexler put it, "We owe it to the American people and history to pursue the wrongdoing of this Administration whether or not it helps us politically or in the next election. Our actions will properly define the Bush Administration in the eyes of history and that is the true test."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Phalid on Jul 19, 2008 8:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: But Now What? good question!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: babs
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: HillbillyBob
» When was the last time...
Posted by: buffeliscious
» RE: When was the last time...
Posted by: madregal
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: buffeliscious
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Posted by: Turiye on Jul 19, 2008 8:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so weary of it all, watching Addington and Yoo. Watching Ashcroft. Watching Fieth. Issa, Trent Franks, and King making light of torture of child soldiers, old men, 98% of all "Enemy Combatants", yes POW's.
Dennis brought an Impeachment resolution against Dick Cheney, then 35 Articles of Impeachment against George W. Bush, he squeezes it into 1` Article. That should have been it, as the infamous bumper sticker says, "Clinton lied about sex, bush lies about everything...." Why has the Congress allowed this? We all could create thoughtful strategies
from One to One Million and unless these Murderers are not Punished, therein lies the horrid truth, how do we ever recover from that?
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Posted by: peacefullaim on Jul 21, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: helenwheels on Jul 21, 2008 8:31 AM
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Posted by: Sushi on Jul 21, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hardly think so. Allowing criminals to tear our country apart is tearing our country apart.
Clinton got impeached for a blow job and still had a 80% approval rating. Go figure.
Sushi
"Clinton = blow jobs. Bush = no jobs"
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Posted by: mountainmama on Jul 21, 2008 9:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Sil on Jul 21, 2008 12:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Yeah right!
Posted by: StillStanding
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 21, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Failure to Hold ALL responsible for the various and numerous criminal activities which have transpired for the last 7 yrs places our Democracy in further danger of a continued downfall. Precedence must be set to avoid such Abuse of power and Complicity in future Gov't. We must also make it very clear such behaviors are NOT an American Domestic or Foreign Policy.
All three bodies of Gov't have shown they have not only failed their directives as Public Servants- but have acted in Punishable ways & means.
The Accomplices from both Houses and both sides should be hung out to dry with this admin.
To send a clear statement of this intention by Sen Obama, I hope he Chooses Sen Chuck Hagel(R) so this can be accomplished in a Bipartisan fashion!
Obama/Hagel '08
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» RE: Prosecute those in Congress for Dereliction of Duty/complicity
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Prosecute those in Congress for Dereliction of Duty/complicity
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Jul 21, 2008 4:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In recent times there has been made much ado about the power and élan of American tools of war. In each case I have been reminded of the status quo or the past reasons for this or that action of violence. Make no mistake here I said action of violence.
In the various kingdoms attributed to God or some deific entity only two species of animals can truly be said to plan and wage wars. Please note I said plan and wage wars, as in to campaign and martial troops strategize and lay fields of battle. Neither the Great Apes nor any of the lesser primates, so called, do this. Those species do not hold a grudge or display psychotic unreasoning rage.
Of all the planets species of animals only ants and man truly wage war. Only ants and man enslave others to their own peculiar Ideologies. I find it mystifying and quite confusing that man as a species does not seem to get this rather salient fact correct and clear of encumbering philosophies. It is as if a thwarted instinct totally unconscious is at work in man. For, after all, are we not better than the ants?
No religionist is above touting their own obscurantism as unfailing logic and reasoning, never mind the fact that it is neither or that it is beyond the reach of some other school of reactionary modality. For these folk I have but one bit of news. If the devil were half as lazy as the Christians no war could exist because they would be doing the business of approximating their own Christ instead of what the local preachers take is on what he thinks Christ was saying.
I have nothing for the freaks who wage wars for wars sake, I know that they will use your children not theirs to wage these wars: except in rare cases where their own children are overwhelmed with guilt, attacks of conscience, or outright righteous indignation.
Frankly if I were to hear a pin drop right now I would know I was speaking to a group of zombies. So yell your heads off nothing will change basic truism, but hard work on the problems at hand!
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» hard work?
Posted by: huricane
» RE: I used to be enraged by the fact no one had impeached the entire cabinet along with Bush.
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: mikehattan on Jul 21, 2008 4:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: arry
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: babs
» WE THE PEOPLE elected Bush, not once but TWICE!
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: WE THE PEOPLE elected Bush, not once but TWICE!
Posted by: helenwheels
» We The People elected Bush ? ? ?
Posted by: PrinceRobert
» RE: We The People elected Bush ? ? ?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: We The People elected Bush ? ? ?
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Who's Guilty ? tell us ! 'mike'
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 21, 2008 4:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is George W. Bush just going to slither back to his bunker in Crawfrod, Texas on January 20, 2009, to live out the rest of his worthless, miserable life in comfortable retirement? A lot of people in this doomed country have got to wake up to the fact that our president is a bona fide war criminal. Sixty years ago scores of former German and Japanese war lords were being hanged for a hell of a lot less.
The party's over. The piper must be paid.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Six Months Left....
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» paying the piper
Posted by: huricane
» RE: paying the piper
Posted by: CTvoter
» six months left
Posted by: donl51
» RE: One Million Dead Iraqis Can't Be Wrong
Posted by: babs
» Thanks. YOU SPEAK TRUTH. NOW, HOW DO WE DO THIS? ITS LIKE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: SJR505 on Jul 21, 2008 4:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“A Sephardic-Jew and Canary Islander descendant’s perspective toward our beloved “land of Texas” was expressed by a Tejano named Rodriguez: “…The soil you see is not ordinary soil. It is the dust of the blood, the flesh, the tears , the sweat of noble souls of the silent, warrior voices of love, joy, sorrow, anger, frustration, pain, and suffering embedded in the bones of our ancestors whose sacrifices have created a bond between us never to be broken or forgotten, and forever sojourned in kindred spirit. You will have to dig deep to find Nature’s earth, for the upper portion is pure Tejano, our blood, our soil, and our dead. I refuse to give this land up.” S(Santiago) Jim Rodriguez-Eclecticist Spirit Seeker
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» RE: clecticist, S Jim Rodriguez
Posted by: donl51
» AND HE SPENT LESS THAN ONE SEMESTER IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Forrest on Jul 21, 2008 5:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ford's pardon of Nixon
Posted by: Lauren
» SO WE MUST PROSECUTE AFTER THE ELECTION OR GET ANOTHER JUST LIKE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 21, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ask
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Ask
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jul 21, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is Congress so worried about their own dirty complicity in the crimes of this Administration, that it is unwilling to look at not just the truth, but the facts as they are.
With an approval rating of 25%, I hardly feel if the real facts are laid out to the American people - I know the country would back them 100%. And since Congress doesn't exactly have the highest ratings right now - it might actually be a boost to themselves. We the people might actually start to believe they have a spine, and know that part of their job is also to check the Executive Branch of government against abuses such as this.
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» RE: Please, IMPEACH THEM ALREADY!!!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Please, IMPEACH THEM ALREADY!!!
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Please, IMPEACH THEM ALREADY!!! THEN YOU BETTER BE AT THE RAYBURN ON 7/25 in...
Posted by: Turiye
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Posted by: nfamous on Jul 21, 2008 5:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress is not going to endanger all the perks they get from serving the elite just to make Americans feel like they have a voice in their government again. We don't. The only way to get our voice back now in through violence. The elite and their minions would never expect ten million Americans showing up on Capital Hill, at the White House and Pentagon. Americans have to stop complaining and start moving their asses and pretty soon you will not have an ass to move. This system cannot be reformed. It is rigged at every level. Forget about it.
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» RE: The natives are restless
Posted by: solrev
» RE: The natives are restless
Posted by: donl51
» RE: The natives are restless
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: The system is rigged and violence is needed
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: The system is rigged and violence is needed
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: willd4change on Jul 21, 2008 6:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A direct reflection of our leaders
Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: A direct reflection of our leaders
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: mnstra on Jul 21, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
upon every municipality in the US and the International war crimes commission in the Hague to issue arrest warrants now for when they leave office .....This will send a message to the spineless Democrats to do something moral for a change.
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Posted by: freshlemon on Jul 21, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Citizens Action?
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: nvannes on Jul 21, 2008 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nick van Nes
Posted by: Knowmad
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Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Jul 21, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Genocide in Iraq began with Bush Sr. when he bombed Iraq in 1991 virtually destroying the infrastructure and killing 600,000 people. He created conditions of life that virtually made life unsustainable. Lack of clean water, no electricity, and destruction of irrigation systems, food storage facilities and water treatment plants meet the criteria of guilt in the Genocide Convention.
Following the bombing, Bush and Clinton imposed sanctions that have been called by Dennis Halliday, former head of the UN Human Rights Commission, Weapons of Mass destruction. At the same time, Bush Sr. and Clinton continued bombing Iraq in the so-called no-fly zones.
George W. compounded the misery and suffering by bombing Iraq again, making it virtually impossible to repair the infrastructure, and occupying the country causing massive killing of civilians and complete destabilization of the country.
In my book, "State of Darkness: US Complicity in Genocides since 1945", I carefully prove the genocide in Iraq during all three presidencies with original sources and meticulous application of the Genocide Convention.
http://www.stateofdarkness.com
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Posted by: bcain on Jul 21, 2008 8:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until we all recognize what 9-11 was really all about, we'll continue to flounder.
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» RE: Floundering
Posted by: edgeofnowhere
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: bcain
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: bcain
» No, they are speaking out . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: bcain
» GO BACK AND STUDY 9-11-1973 FIRST. 9-11 WAS CHOSEN
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 21, 2008 8:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: master09 on Jul 21, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IMPEACHMENT,IMPEACHMENT,IMPEACHMENT
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: aamer923 on Jul 21, 2008 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority is dumb, uninformed or both.
Nothing will happen. The forces of evil are taking us to a monumental 100 year war with Islam. Your kids and grand kids and mine will be fighting it.
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» DAMN I HOPE YOU ARE WRONG. THE RIGHT WING OF ISLAM AND CHRISTENDOM
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: buffeliscious on Jul 21, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By allowing Kissinger to walk away, apparently innocent, we made a mockery of our constitution and tarnished any image around the world of our being the bastion of democracy. More importantly, we paved the way for the monsters Bush and Cheney, unleashing them on the world and our own people with their American imperialism, really not so different from the Third Reich.
The suggestion to toss them to the international courts is a good one. Let them try and justify their actions to the world.
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» RE: We should begin with Henry Kissinger...
Posted by: dustdevil
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Posted by: Dennis_Menace on Jul 21, 2008 12:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A simpler approach, requiring only 1 or 2 people, is outlined in the book 'The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder' by Vincent Bugliosi.
We need only 1 elected District Attorney to file the case - not a majority of politicians in one of the houses - just 1 or 2 people in a D.A.'s office anywhere in America. Read the book. Spread the word.
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» RE: FEAR
Posted by: freshlemon
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Posted by: carbon-based on Jul 21, 2008 12:51 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read about Lincoln and how he trampled the constitution and ignored the supreme court.
I think our country survived them both nicely, it'll survive Bush!
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» RE: Complete circle
Posted by: whealeydj
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Posted by: Jeffersonian Republican on Jul 21, 2008 1:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read of all the specious "reasons" why impeachment should be "off the table," but do they legally have that discretionary authority?
The standard for impeachment is merely the presence of "probable cause" that a "crime" has been committed, whereas impeachment is merely the official accusation of such crime based on such probable cause.
Being quite similar to an "indictment," articles of impeachment represent a legal challenge based on probable cause that individual(s) or entities violated the law, with the required next step of a trial in the Senate to determine precise guilt or innocence of such crime(s).
I believe that either our representatives adhere to the rule of law and required due processes as set forth in the Constitution, or they are exposing themselves to the possibility of an organized "no confidence" vote by their constituents and/or their replacement per the regular election process.
Perhaps therein lies the real question. If the elected representatives fail to uphold their Constitutional duties, will the public exercise theirs? Isn't it a requirement that each citizen exercise his/her duties to ensure responsible governance by their elected representatives?
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» TO H____ WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS. DIRECT DEMOCRACY THROUGH INITIATIVE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: LouisFallert on Jul 21, 2008 1:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
General Janis Karpinski who has claimed her innocence in the Abu Ghraib scandalmight prove her innocence.
Former Secretary Colin Powell might demand a trial to clear his name of the charges that he knowingly participated in crimes against peace.
Bill Clinton could ask that his actions in suppoerting extrodinary rendition and bombing civilians be judged . . . nah that would never work. Too much chance they'ld find him guilty and slap his weist.
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Posted by: Nicnic on Jul 21, 2008 1:37 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» PELOSI DOES NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO IMPEACH, BUT WOULD SHE IF SHE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Jul 21, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, if you want to see a REAL difference in the ways and direction this country
influences the world at large, then vote a candidate that you can conscientiously support.
I’m tired of the bickering amongst a divided, distracted, and diverted populace. The
present corporate strategy seems to be, “Let the people argue, we’ll do what we want
while they’re distracted.” Our government professes belief in freedom, democracy, a
responsible and responsive constituency as well as a government, and I see no evidence of
that. The lack of meaningful participation by the populace shows in the acts of leadership,
both parties, the reactionary behavior by this administration, and the lukewarm
non-binding behavior by the democratically controlled, (ha, ha), congress. We as a people,
should display a society that believes in and promotes fairness and justice in this country as
an example for other governments to emulate. Let us throw the corporate minions out of
THE PEOPLES’ GOVERNMENT, and return POWER to the PEOPLE. After all,isn’t the definition of democracy a government of, by, and for THE PEOPLE?
Just my thoughts of what we’ve forgotten, what we’ve neglected.
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» It is not as easy as that . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
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Posted by: Fredric Frank on Jul 21, 2008 2:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no difference or distinction between those that give the orders and those who allow them to be carried out those crimes. Polosi, by stating she would not start impeachment precedeing against Bush is as guilty as those that have pulled the trigers that have killed over 1,000,000 people in Iraq.
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 21, 2008 8:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, if you send enough democrats with backbone(?) it can be done. They have committed the crimes. They will have to be prosecuted after they leave office. Notice there was no will to prosecute Nixon who was prosecutable. There was no will to prosecute Reagan for his dealings with a foreign government as a private citizen prior to his election. That was treason. That was firing squad stuff.
If Nixon and Reagan had been prosecuted, Bush might not have happened. If we don't prosecute Bush it wil happen again. Moreover, Bush's appointees need to be impeached.
The Supreme Court needs to be told in clear language that it does not decide elections. Those 5 members need to be impeached. Actually all of the Bush appointees made in the first 6 years need to be impeached.
Then every law written during the 12 years of republican domination of the congress should be reviewed. The were all compromises or worse. A compromise with the devil always has the devil in the compromise.
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Jul 21, 2008 8:58 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: RON_KING on Jul 22, 2008 1:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
While this has been mostly thought of as not being able to criminalize past actions, it should apply equally well to these "immunity" provisions.
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Jul 22, 2008 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it is an immigrant who entered the country without papers then clearly punishment is in order (unless of course the immigrant is someone who has made it big, say like becoming a movie star or the Governor of California).
We can't help out people who took out mortgages that, it turned out, they can't afford as a result of deceptive terms. After all, if we let them off the hook then in the future people will just go ahead and not read all of the fine print and take out mortgages again that they can't afford.
But big financial institutions? That's another thing, they are too big to fail. Let's not worry about whether they might, in the future, try some other scam. If it goes sour, the government will surely just bail them out again, but lets not worry about that.
This works with politicians as well, especially Republicans. Nixon got pardoned, Clinton let Regan/Bush get away with Iran/Contra (to the everlasting gratitude of the Republicans) and the Pelosi Congress has given Bush Jr. a pass for any number of offenses against the laws and Constitution of the United States.
One wonders if, just maybe, once punishing the great and powerful would send a message to them that they can't just get away with anything and everything they might do.
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Posted by: jvaljon1 on Jul 22, 2008 3:49 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Family friend and Bush (Daddy) business partner, Osama bin Laden. Yes, folks, THAT Osama. The same one who masterminded 9/11. Who Bush said, "I'm not looking for him" when asked why no one could find a six foot four inch guy living among shepherds and hooked up to a dialysis machine.
bin Laden made Dubya into a "heroic figure" that he could never otherwise be, the coward, any other way.
bin Laden is the best friend any Bush ever had. My source for this? Rove's biography, "In The Shadow of Machiavelli, the Rise and Fall of Karl Rove" by Paul Alexander.
Hie yourselves--as I did--to your local B&N, & pick up your own copy. Well worth the money as a road map if nothing else, as to how W got "elected" and STAYED ELECTED AFTER 2004, for another disastrous four years.
Go! Scoot! What're you all WAITING FOR????? A terrific read, even without the latte, I promise you. Although, (thanks to this gang of thugs in the White House) now, even STARBUCKS is on the ropes, along with the rest of us, LOL!
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» Actually it was his brother . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» YES. YOU'VE GOT IT. THE BIN LADEN FAMILY-BUSH FAMILY TIE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is a sad state of MSM affairs when the public must get their news from fake news programs!
I would like to see criminal conspiracy and complicity to commit treason charges
leveled at all the top executives of all Corporate controlled MSM news outlets,
and be taken immediately!
Why?... because they took pages directly from Joseph Goebbels play book;
1.)by assisting in the subversion of truth, in order to lead us into war.
2.)support in diverting TRILLIONS of taxpayers dollars and by profiting in this action.
3.)by supporting GRAFT, GREED & CORRUPTION
3.)material and emotional support of illegal detention and torture, plus condoning these activities including against their own [eg. competitors reporters photographers etc.]
4.)and by providing material and logistical Intelligence and Support contrary to existing conventions knowing that this will effect future war correspondents ability to perform their duties.
and all this was done for one reason... for the bottom line! ...PROFIT!...
But what really pisses me off is,
how the corporate executives running this dog and pony show made it look so ...[sl]easy...
SOMETHING/ANYTHING... MUST BE DONE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'Joseph Goebbels' Quotes;
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The
lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
"It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion."
"During a war, news should be given out for instruction rather than information."
"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We must ensure a quality control mechanism to
eliminate Propaganda emanating from government agencies.
This can easily be done by revoking broadcasting rights to broadcast News information. News should never be infotainment trivalised for the bottom line, news reporting is a serious business and should be classified as such by being a privilege to broadcast... that being by issuing licenses that is separate from their regular broadcast licenses!
Simply put... a broadcast license fee structure should be reviewed yearly and with bottom line penalties for corporate structures that do not have regulated news coverage, rewarding those that do have licensed news reporting by being exempt from the yearly somberquete.
News licensing guidelines must be enforced to ensure non-governmental interference in the future, their-fore the licensing body MUST BE non-political.
[Don't need a repeat of Colin Powell's son issuing broadcast licenses now do we, never forget that]
To much damage has been brought through the corporate streamlining of news and information sources to our societies detriment, action is needed now.
Crimes have been perpetrated by and through this medium, and the sheeple "DO" care!
to all the Patrick Fitzgerald's out there... where are you?
now... right NOW... is your time!
jdfu
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Posted by: the director on Jul 24, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
fall of the Bastille. Until we the people hold those who "lie" responsible to We the People then those who would gravitate to power of office will continue in the same manner. Do we the people want George and Dick to represent us in the world of world wide public opinion? When that opinion causes war and the death of innocents as well of the profits that corporations realize from the backs of those who are not "rich" enough to weather the storm of capitalism, even the capitalism of war.
It is not just our political leaders who need to feel the whip or the blade of punishment but anyone of them who would desire profits from
the ill health of our medical system or the desire to ignore what we are doing to the
planet. It's our children's planet not the stockholders of the corporations doing the damage.
The power of privilege was corrected by the
masses of the French Revolution, the same
revolution which triggered our own revolution but we forgot to the punish those who caused the problem.
Now is the time, if any elected official or corporate official believes they are above the law NOW IS The TIME to change the procedure and
even though the guillotine is "cruel and inhuman punishment" we need to get the attention of those who believe they are above the law. Are we a nation of laws? If so we need to ensure that those laws are for all the people not just those cannot AFFORD to avoid the punishment of the crime and punishment system of laws.
If we do not hold the power brokers responsible
NOW they will continue doing what is obvious to
those who are not in power. Power to the
people may mean revolution or the revolution of
democratic thought making the lies told for profit punishable by laws which should be much harsher than having one ounce of "pot" in Texas.
When elected officials protect members of their
"club" from the law they also need to understand the long arm of the Law, not the law of privilege. We don't need saints for representatives but we need individuals who believe that the truth is part of the Bill of Right. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are all functions of the truth not like the lies George and Dick have based their administration. The quote by Joseph Goebbels is only true in a socialist State, the TRUTH is not the enemy of the State but those who would use the State as an ENEMY of the PEOPLE.
Impeach now, those who are not impeached will
learn the lesson that George and Dick could learn if impeached. Privilege should not be a reward of power, it should not even be part of our legal system. George McGovern and Senator Dennis Kucinich understand that our future depends on teaching the liars the lessons we failed to teach the previous liars. Greed for
power or profits are the only reason people lie.
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Posted by: rainn on Jul 25, 2008 7:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: john2007 on Jul 26, 2008 3:10 PM
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Posted by: orwellturns on Jul 27, 2008 1:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, they have all let us down but then again WHERE WERE THE PEOPLE that should have been storming the grounds of the white house and the Senate (CODEPINK was there) in demand of action and or impeachment. Yes, some of us went to our marches, rallies and vigils across the country but never in the numbers that would have made a difference. WHERE WAS THE MEDIA to report on our protests, rallies and vigils. One would have to look real hard to find a news report that 10,000 had gathered to protest the actions of the Bush administration on any particular day.
IT IS NOT TOO LATE, IMPEACHMENT (Thank you Dennis Kucinich) IS A MUST!! CONGRESS MUST LISTEN TO US NOW, THE EVIDENCE IS THERE!!!
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Posted by: Phalid on Jul 19, 2008 8:32 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: But Now What? good question!
Posted by: donl51
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: jstepp590
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: babs
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: HillbillyBob
» When was the last time...
Posted by: buffeliscious
» RE: When was the last time...
Posted by: madregal
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: But Now What?
Posted by: buffeliscious
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Posted by: Turiye on Jul 19, 2008 8:34 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am so weary of it all, watching Addington and Yoo. Watching Ashcroft. Watching Fieth. Issa, Trent Franks, and King making light of torture of child soldiers, old men, 98% of all "Enemy Combatants", yes POW's.
Dennis brought an Impeachment resolution against Dick Cheney, then 35 Articles of Impeachment against George W. Bush, he squeezes it into 1` Article. That should have been it, as the infamous bumper sticker says, "Clinton lied about sex, bush lies about everything...." Why has the Congress allowed this? We all could create thoughtful strategies
from One to One Million and unless these Murderers are not Punished, therein lies the horrid truth, how do we ever recover from that?
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Posted by: peacefullaim on Jul 21, 2008 3:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: helenwheels on Jul 21, 2008 8:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Sushi on Jul 21, 2008 10:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hardly think so. Allowing criminals to tear our country apart is tearing our country apart.
Clinton got impeached for a blow job and still had a 80% approval rating. Go figure.
Sushi
"Clinton = blow jobs. Bush = no jobs"
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Posted by: mountainmama on Jul 21, 2008 9:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Sil on Jul 21, 2008 12:49 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Yeah right!
Posted by: StillStanding
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Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 21, 2008 3:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Failure to Hold ALL responsible for the various and numerous criminal activities which have transpired for the last 7 yrs places our Democracy in further danger of a continued downfall. Precedence must be set to avoid such Abuse of power and Complicity in future Gov't. We must also make it very clear such behaviors are NOT an American Domestic or Foreign Policy.
All three bodies of Gov't have shown they have not only failed their directives as Public Servants- but have acted in Punishable ways & means.
The Accomplices from both Houses and both sides should be hung out to dry with this admin.
To send a clear statement of this intention by Sen Obama, I hope he Chooses Sen Chuck Hagel(R) so this can be accomplished in a Bipartisan fashion!
Obama/Hagel '08
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» RE: Prosecute those in Congress for Dereliction of Duty/complicity
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Prosecute those in Congress for Dereliction of Duty/complicity
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Jul 21, 2008 4:01 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In recent times there has been made much ado about the power and élan of American tools of war. In each case I have been reminded of the status quo or the past reasons for this or that action of violence. Make no mistake here I said action of violence.
In the various kingdoms attributed to God or some deific entity only two species of animals can truly be said to plan and wage wars. Please note I said plan and wage wars, as in to campaign and martial troops strategize and lay fields of battle. Neither the Great Apes nor any of the lesser primates, so called, do this. Those species do not hold a grudge or display psychotic unreasoning rage.
Of all the planets species of animals only ants and man truly wage war. Only ants and man enslave others to their own peculiar Ideologies. I find it mystifying and quite confusing that man as a species does not seem to get this rather salient fact correct and clear of encumbering philosophies. It is as if a thwarted instinct totally unconscious is at work in man. For, after all, are we not better than the ants?
No religionist is above touting their own obscurantism as unfailing logic and reasoning, never mind the fact that it is neither or that it is beyond the reach of some other school of reactionary modality. For these folk I have but one bit of news. If the devil were half as lazy as the Christians no war could exist because they would be doing the business of approximating their own Christ instead of what the local preachers take is on what he thinks Christ was saying.
I have nothing for the freaks who wage wars for wars sake, I know that they will use your children not theirs to wage these wars: except in rare cases where their own children are overwhelmed with guilt, attacks of conscience, or outright righteous indignation.
Frankly if I were to hear a pin drop right now I would know I was speaking to a group of zombies. So yell your heads off nothing will change basic truism, but hard work on the problems at hand!
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» hard work?
Posted by: huricane
» RE: I used to be enraged by the fact no one had impeached the entire cabinet along with Bush.
Posted by: babs
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Posted by: mikehattan on Jul 21, 2008 4:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: arry
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: babs
» WE THE PEOPLE elected Bush, not once but TWICE!
Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» RE: WE THE PEOPLE elected Bush, not once but TWICE!
Posted by: helenwheels
» We The People elected Bush ? ? ?
Posted by: PrinceRobert
» RE: We The People elected Bush ? ? ?
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: We The People elected Bush ? ? ?
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Who's Guilty ? tell us ! 'mike'
Posted by: donl51
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Who's Guilty ?
Posted by: woodford54
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 21, 2008 4:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is George W. Bush just going to slither back to his bunker in Crawfrod, Texas on January 20, 2009, to live out the rest of his worthless, miserable life in comfortable retirement? A lot of people in this doomed country have got to wake up to the fact that our president is a bona fide war criminal. Sixty years ago scores of former German and Japanese war lords were being hanged for a hell of a lot less.
The party's over. The piper must be paid.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Six Months Left....
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» paying the piper
Posted by: huricane
» RE: paying the piper
Posted by: CTvoter
» six months left
Posted by: donl51
» RE: One Million Dead Iraqis Can't Be Wrong
Posted by: babs
» Thanks. YOU SPEAK TRUTH. NOW, HOW DO WE DO THIS? ITS LIKE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: SJR505 on Jul 21, 2008 4:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“A Sephardic-Jew and Canary Islander descendant’s perspective toward our beloved “land of Texas” was expressed by a Tejano named Rodriguez: “…The soil you see is not ordinary soil. It is the dust of the blood, the flesh, the tears , the sweat of noble souls of the silent, warrior voices of love, joy, sorrow, anger, frustration, pain, and suffering embedded in the bones of our ancestors whose sacrifices have created a bond between us never to be broken or forgotten, and forever sojourned in kindred spirit. You will have to dig deep to find Nature’s earth, for the upper portion is pure Tejano, our blood, our soil, and our dead. I refuse to give this land up.” S(Santiago) Jim Rodriguez-Eclecticist Spirit Seeker
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» RE: clecticist, S Jim Rodriguez
Posted by: donl51
» AND HE SPENT LESS THAN ONE SEMESTER IN PUBLIC SCHOOLS BECAUSE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Forrest on Jul 21, 2008 5:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ford's pardon of Nixon
Posted by: Lauren
» SO WE MUST PROSECUTE AFTER THE ELECTION OR GET ANOTHER JUST LIKE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 21, 2008 5:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Ask
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Ask
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: Spiritgirl on Jul 21, 2008 5:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is Congress so worried about their own dirty complicity in the crimes of this Administration, that it is unwilling to look at not just the truth, but the facts as they are.
With an approval rating of 25%, I hardly feel if the real facts are laid out to the American people - I know the country would back them 100%. And since Congress doesn't exactly have the highest ratings right now - it might actually be a boost to themselves. We the people might actually start to believe they have a spine, and know that part of their job is also to check the Executive Branch of government against abuses such as this.
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» RE: Please, IMPEACH THEM ALREADY!!!
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Please, IMPEACH THEM ALREADY!!!
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Please, IMPEACH THEM ALREADY!!! THEN YOU BETTER BE AT THE RAYBURN ON 7/25 in...
Posted by: Turiye
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Posted by: nfamous on Jul 21, 2008 5:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Congress is not going to endanger all the perks they get from serving the elite just to make Americans feel like they have a voice in their government again. We don't. The only way to get our voice back now in through violence. The elite and their minions would never expect ten million Americans showing up on Capital Hill, at the White House and Pentagon. Americans have to stop complaining and start moving their asses and pretty soon you will not have an ass to move. This system cannot be reformed. It is rigged at every level. Forget about it.
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» RE: The natives are restless
Posted by: solrev
» RE: The natives are restless
Posted by: donl51
» RE: The natives are restless
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: The system is rigged and violence is needed
Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: The system is rigged and violence is needed
Posted by: woodford54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willd4change on Jul 21, 2008 6:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: A direct reflection of our leaders
Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: A direct reflection of our leaders
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: mnstra on Jul 21, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
upon every municipality in the US and the International war crimes commission in the Hague to issue arrest warrants now for when they leave office .....This will send a message to the spineless Democrats to do something moral for a change.
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Posted by: freshlemon on Jul 21, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Citizens Action?
Posted by: jstepp590
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Posted by: nvannes on Jul 21, 2008 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Nick van Nes
Posted by: Knowmad
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Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Jul 21, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Genocide in Iraq began with Bush Sr. when he bombed Iraq in 1991 virtually destroying the infrastructure and killing 600,000 people. He created conditions of life that virtually made life unsustainable. Lack of clean water, no electricity, and destruction of irrigation systems, food storage facilities and water treatment plants meet the criteria of guilt in the Genocide Convention.
Following the bombing, Bush and Clinton imposed sanctions that have been called by Dennis Halliday, former head of the UN Human Rights Commission, Weapons of Mass destruction. At the same time, Bush Sr. and Clinton continued bombing Iraq in the so-called no-fly zones.
George W. compounded the misery and suffering by bombing Iraq again, making it virtually impossible to repair the infrastructure, and occupying the country causing massive killing of civilians and complete destabilization of the country.
In my book, "State of Darkness: US Complicity in Genocides since 1945", I carefully prove the genocide in Iraq during all three presidencies with original sources and meticulous application of the Genocide Convention.
http://www.stateofdarkness.com
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Posted by: bcain on Jul 21, 2008 8:11 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until we all recognize what 9-11 was really all about, we'll continue to flounder.
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» RE: Floundering
Posted by: edgeofnowhere
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: bcain
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: bcain
» No, they are speaking out . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: Floundering
Posted by: bcain
» GO BACK AND STUDY 9-11-1973 FIRST. 9-11 WAS CHOSEN
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 21, 2008 8:21 AM
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Posted by: master09 on Jul 21, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: IMPEACHMENT,IMPEACHMENT,IMPEACHMENT
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: aamer923 on Jul 21, 2008 11:34 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The majority is dumb, uninformed or both.
Nothing will happen. The forces of evil are taking us to a monumental 100 year war with Islam. Your kids and grand kids and mine will be fighting it.
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» DAMN I HOPE YOU ARE WRONG. THE RIGHT WING OF ISLAM AND CHRISTENDOM
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: buffeliscious on Jul 21, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By allowing Kissinger to walk away, apparently innocent, we made a mockery of our constitution and tarnished any image around the world of our being the bastion of democracy. More importantly, we paved the way for the monsters Bush and Cheney, unleashing them on the world and our own people with their American imperialism, really not so different from the Third Reich.
The suggestion to toss them to the international courts is a good one. Let them try and justify their actions to the world.
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» RE: We should begin with Henry Kissinger...
Posted by: dustdevil
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Posted by: Dennis_Menace on Jul 21, 2008 12:08 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A simpler approach, requiring only 1 or 2 people, is outlined in the book 'The Prosecution of George W. Bush for Murder' by Vincent Bugliosi.
We need only 1 elected District Attorney to file the case - not a majority of politicians in one of the houses - just 1 or 2 people in a D.A.'s office anywhere in America. Read the book. Spread the word.
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» RE: FEAR
Posted by: freshlemon
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Posted by: carbon-based on Jul 21, 2008 12:51 PM
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Read about Lincoln and how he trampled the constitution and ignored the supreme court.
I think our country survived them both nicely, it'll survive Bush!
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» RE: Complete circle
Posted by: whealeydj
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Posted by: Jeffersonian Republican on Jul 21, 2008 1:29 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read of all the specious "reasons" why impeachment should be "off the table," but do they legally have that discretionary authority?
The standard for impeachment is merely the presence of "probable cause" that a "crime" has been committed, whereas impeachment is merely the official accusation of such crime based on such probable cause.
Being quite similar to an "indictment," articles of impeachment represent a legal challenge based on probable cause that individual(s) or entities violated the law, with the required next step of a trial in the Senate to determine precise guilt or innocence of such crime(s).
I believe that either our representatives adhere to the rule of law and required due processes as set forth in the Constitution, or they are exposing themselves to the possibility of an organized "no confidence" vote by their constituents and/or their replacement per the regular election process.
Perhaps therein lies the real question. If the elected representatives fail to uphold their Constitutional duties, will the public exercise theirs? Isn't it a requirement that each citizen exercise his/her duties to ensure responsible governance by their elected representatives?
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» TO H____ WITH ELECTED OFFICIALS. DIRECT DEMOCRACY THROUGH INITIATIVE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: LouisFallert on Jul 21, 2008 1:34 PM
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General Janis Karpinski who has claimed her innocence in the Abu Ghraib scandalmight prove her innocence.
Former Secretary Colin Powell might demand a trial to clear his name of the charges that he knowingly participated in crimes against peace.
Bill Clinton could ask that his actions in suppoerting extrodinary rendition and bombing civilians be judged . . . nah that would never work. Too much chance they'ld find him guilty and slap his weist.
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Posted by: Nicnic on Jul 21, 2008 1:37 PM
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» PELOSI DOES NOT HAVE THE VOTES TO IMPEACH, BUT WOULD SHE IF SHE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: wormfarmer on Jul 21, 2008 2:10 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look, if you want to see a REAL difference in the ways and direction this country
influences the world at large, then vote a candidate that you can conscientiously support.
I’m tired of the bickering amongst a divided, distracted, and diverted populace. The
present corporate strategy seems to be, “Let the people argue, we’ll do what we want
while they’re distracted.” Our government professes belief in freedom, democracy, a
responsible and responsive constituency as well as a government, and I see no evidence of
that. The lack of meaningful participation by the populace shows in the acts of leadership,
both parties, the reactionary behavior by this administration, and the lukewarm
non-binding behavior by the democratically controlled, (ha, ha), congress. We as a people,
should display a society that believes in and promotes fairness and justice in this country as
an example for other governments to emulate. Let us throw the corporate minions out of
THE PEOPLES’ GOVERNMENT, and return POWER to the PEOPLE. After all,isn’t the definition of democracy a government of, by, and for THE PEOPLE?
Just my thoughts of what we’ve forgotten, what we’ve neglected.
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» It is not as easy as that . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
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Posted by: Fredric Frank on Jul 21, 2008 2:24 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is no difference or distinction between those that give the orders and those who allow them to be carried out those crimes. Polosi, by stating she would not start impeachment precedeing against Bush is as guilty as those that have pulled the trigers that have killed over 1,000,000 people in Iraq.
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 21, 2008 8:22 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, if you send enough democrats with backbone(?) it can be done. They have committed the crimes. They will have to be prosecuted after they leave office. Notice there was no will to prosecute Nixon who was prosecutable. There was no will to prosecute Reagan for his dealings with a foreign government as a private citizen prior to his election. That was treason. That was firing squad stuff.
If Nixon and Reagan had been prosecuted, Bush might not have happened. If we don't prosecute Bush it wil happen again. Moreover, Bush's appointees need to be impeached.
The Supreme Court needs to be told in clear language that it does not decide elections. Those 5 members need to be impeached. Actually all of the Bush appointees made in the first 6 years need to be impeached.
Then every law written during the 12 years of republican domination of the congress should be reviewed. The were all compromises or worse. A compromise with the devil always has the devil in the compromise.
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Posted by: AlexLawyer on Jul 21, 2008 8:58 PM
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Posted by: RON_KING on Jul 22, 2008 1:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No Bill of Attainder or ex post facto Law shall be passed.
While this has been mostly thought of as not being able to criminalize past actions, it should apply equally well to these "immunity" provisions.
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Posted by: ProgressiveManiac on Jul 22, 2008 8:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If it is an immigrant who entered the country without papers then clearly punishment is in order (unless of course the immigrant is someone who has made it big, say like becoming a movie star or the Governor of California).
We can't help out people who took out mortgages that, it turned out, they can't afford as a result of deceptive terms. After all, if we let them off the hook then in the future people will just go ahead and not read all of the fine print and take out mortgages again that they can't afford.
But big financial institutions? That's another thing, they are too big to fail. Let's not worry about whether they might, in the future, try some other scam. If it goes sour, the government will surely just bail them out again, but lets not worry about that.
This works with politicians as well, especially Republicans. Nixon got pardoned, Clinton let Regan/Bush get away with Iran/Contra (to the everlasting gratitude of the Republicans) and the Pelosi Congress has given Bush Jr. a pass for any number of offenses against the laws and Constitution of the United States.
One wonders if, just maybe, once punishing the great and powerful would send a message to them that they can't just get away with anything and everything they might do.
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Posted by: jvaljon1 on Jul 22, 2008 3:49 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Family friend and Bush (Daddy) business partner, Osama bin Laden. Yes, folks, THAT Osama. The same one who masterminded 9/11. Who Bush said, "I'm not looking for him" when asked why no one could find a six foot four inch guy living among shepherds and hooked up to a dialysis machine.
bin Laden made Dubya into a "heroic figure" that he could never otherwise be, the coward, any other way.
bin Laden is the best friend any Bush ever had. My source for this? Rove's biography, "In The Shadow of Machiavelli, the Rise and Fall of Karl Rove" by Paul Alexander.
Hie yourselves--as I did--to your local B&N, & pick up your own copy. Well worth the money as a road map if nothing else, as to how W got "elected" and STAYED ELECTED AFTER 2004, for another disastrous four years.
Go! Scoot! What're you all WAITING FOR????? A terrific read, even without the latte, I promise you. Although, (thanks to this gang of thugs in the White House) now, even STARBUCKS is on the ropes, along with the rest of us, LOL!
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» Actually it was his brother . . .
Posted by: dustdevil
» YES. YOU'VE GOT IT. THE BIN LADEN FAMILY-BUSH FAMILY TIE
Posted by: Raymond Emerson
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Jul 23, 2008 6:20 AM
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Is a sad state of MSM affairs when the public must get their news from fake news programs!
I would like to see criminal conspiracy and complicity to commit treason charges
leveled at all the top executives of all Corporate controlled MSM news outlets,
and be taken immediately!
Why?... because they took pages directly from Joseph Goebbels play book;
1.)by assisting in the subversion of truth, in order to lead us into war.
2.)support in diverting TRILLIONS of taxpayers dollars and by profiting in this action.
3.)by supporting GRAFT, GREED & CORRUPTION
3.)material and emotional support of illegal detention and torture, plus condoning these activities including against their own [eg. competitors reporters photographers etc.]
4.)and by providing material and logistical Intelligence and Support contrary to existing conventions knowing that this will effect future war correspondents ability to perform their duties.
and all this was done for one reason... for the bottom line! ...PROFIT!...
But what really pisses me off is,
how the corporate executives running this dog and pony show made it look so ...[sl]easy...
SOMETHING/ANYTHING... MUST BE DONE!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
'Joseph Goebbels' Quotes;
"If you tell a lie big enough and keep repeating it, people will eventually come to believe it. The
lie can be maintained only for such time as the State can shield the people from the political, economic and/or military consequences of the lie. It thus becomes vitally important for the State to use all of its powers to repress dissent, for the truth is the mortal enemy of the lie, and thus by extension, the truth is the greatest enemy of the State."
"It is the absolute right of the State to supervise the formation of public opinion."
"During a war, news should be given out for instruction rather than information."
"The most brilliant propagandist technique will yield no success unless one fundamental principle is borne in mind constantly - it must confine itself to a few points and repeat them over and over"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
We must ensure a quality control mechanism to
eliminate Propaganda emanating from government agencies.
This can easily be done by revoking broadcasting rights to broadcast News information. News should never be infotainment trivalised for the bottom line, news reporting is a serious business and should be classified as such by being a privilege to broadcast... that being by issuing licenses that is separate from their regular broadcast licenses!
Simply put... a broadcast license fee structure should be reviewed yearly and with bottom line penalties for corporate structures that do not have regulated news coverage, rewarding those that do have licensed news reporting by being exempt from the yearly somberquete.
News licensing guidelines must be enforced to ensure non-governmental interference in the future, their-fore the licensing body MUST BE non-political.
[Don't need a repeat of Colin Powell's son issuing broadcast licenses now do we, never forget that]
To much damage has been brought through the corporate streamlining of news and information sources to our societies detriment, action is needed now.
Crimes have been perpetrated by and through this medium, and the sheeple "DO" care!
to all the Patrick Fitzgerald's out there... where are you?
now... right NOW... is your time!
jdfu
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Posted by: the director on Jul 24, 2008 12:28 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
fall of the Bastille. Until we the people hold those who "lie" responsible to We the People then those who would gravitate to power of office will continue in the same manner. Do we the people want George and Dick to represent us in the world of world wide public opinion? When that opinion causes war and the death of innocents as well of the profits that corporations realize from the backs of those who are not "rich" enough to weather the storm of capitalism, even the capitalism of war.
It is not just our political leaders who need to feel the whip or the blade of punishment but anyone of them who would desire profits from
the ill health of our medical system or the desire to ignore what we are doing to the
planet. It's our children's planet not the stockholders of the corporations doing the damage.
The power of privilege was corrected by the
masses of the French Revolution, the same
revolution which triggered our own revolution but we forgot to the punish those who caused the problem.
Now is the time, if any elected official or corporate official believes they are above the law NOW IS The TIME to change the procedure and
even though the guillotine is "cruel and inhuman punishment" we need to get the attention of those who believe they are above the law. Are we a nation of laws? If so we need to ensure that those laws are for all the people not just those cannot AFFORD to avoid the punishment of the crime and punishment system of laws.
If we do not hold the power brokers responsible
NOW they will continue doing what is obvious to
those who are not in power. Power to the
people may mean revolution or the revolution of
democratic thought making the lies told for profit punishable by laws which should be much harsher than having one ounce of "pot" in Texas.
When elected officials protect members of their
"club" from the law they also need to understand the long arm of the Law, not the law of privilege. We don't need saints for representatives but we need individuals who believe that the truth is part of the Bill of Right. Life, Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness are all functions of the truth not like the lies George and Dick have based their administration. The quote by Joseph Goebbels is only true in a socialist State, the TRUTH is not the enemy of the State but those who would use the State as an ENEMY of the PEOPLE.
Impeach now, those who are not impeached will
learn the lesson that George and Dick could learn if impeached. Privilege should not be a reward of power, it should not even be part of our legal system. George McGovern and Senator Dennis Kucinich understand that our future depends on teaching the liars the lessons we failed to teach the previous liars. Greed for
power or profits are the only reason people lie.
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Posted by: rainn on Jul 25, 2008 7:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: john2007 on Jul 26, 2008 3:10 PM
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Posted by: orwellturns on Jul 27, 2008 1:11 AM
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Yes, they have all let us down but then again WHERE WERE THE PEOPLE that should have been storming the grounds of the white house and the Senate (CODEPINK was there) in demand of action and or impeachment. Yes, some of us went to our marches, rallies and vigils across the country but never in the numbers that would have made a difference. WHERE WAS THE MEDIA to report on our protests, rallies and vigils. One would have to look real hard to find a news report that 10,000 had gathered to protest the actions of the Bush administration on any particular day.
IT IS NOT TOO LATE, IMPEACHMENT (Thank you Dennis Kucinich) IS A MUST!! CONGRESS MUST LISTEN TO US NOW, THE EVIDENCE IS THERE!!!
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