CIVIL LIBERTIES  
The Progressive / By Matthew Rothschild
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 180

Bush's Secret Army of Snoops and Snitches

A new class of everyday spies, from paramedics to utility workers, are being recruited to be "terrorism liason officers."
July 9, 2008  |  
 
 
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The full scale of Bush's assault on our civil liberties may not be known until years after he's left office.

At the moment, all we can do is get glimpses here or there of what's going on.

And the latest one to come to my attention is the dispatching of police officers, firefighters, paramedics, and utility workers as so-called "terrorism liaison officers," according to a report by Bruce Finley in the Denver Post.

They are entrusted with hunting for "suspicious activity," and then they report their findings, which end up in secret government databases.

What constitutes "suspicious activity," of course, is in the eye of the beholder. But a draft Justice Department memo on the subject says that such things as "taking photos of no apparent aesthetic value" or "making notes" could constitute suspicious activity, Finley wrote.

The states where this is going on include: Arizona, California, Colorado, Florida, Illinois, Tennessee, Wisconsin, and Washington, D.C.

Dozens more are planning to do so, Finley reports.

Colorado alone has 181 Terrorism Liaison Officers, and some of them are from the private sector, such as Xcel Energy.

Mark Silverstein of the Colorado ACLU told Amy Goodman of Democracy Now! that this reminds him of the old TIPS program, which "caused so much controversy that Congress eventually shut it down. But it is reemerging in other forms." Silverstein warns that there will be thousands and thousands of "completely innocent people going about completely innocent and legal activities" who are going to end up in a government database.

On the web, I found a description for a Terrorism Liaison Officer Position in the East Bay.

Reporting to the Alameda and Contra Costa Counties and the city of Oakland, these officers "would in effect function as ad hoc members" of the East Bay Terrorism Early Warning Group, which consists of local police officers and firefighters.

The "suggested duties" of these Terrorism Liaison Officers include: "source person for internal or external inquiry," and "collecting, reporting retrieving and sharing of materials related to terrorism. Such materials might include ... books journals, periodicals, and videotapes."

Terrorism Liaison Officers would be situated not only in agencies dealing with the harbor, the airports, and the railroads, but also "University/Campus."

And the private sector would be involved, too. "The program would eventually be expanded to include Health Care personnel and representatives from private, critical infrastructure entities, with communication systems specifically tailored to their needs."

In this regard, Terrorism Liaison Officers resemble InfraGard members. (See "The FBI Deputizes Business".) This FBI-private sector liaison group now consists of more than 26,000 members, who have their own secure channels of communication and are shielded, as much as possible, from scrutiny.

Terrorism Liaison Officers connect up with so-called "Fusion Centers": intelligence sharing among public safety agencies as well as the private sector. The Department of Justice has come up with "Fusion Center Guidelines" that discuss the role of private sector participants.

"The private sector can offer fusion centers a variety of resources," it says, including "suspicious incidents and activity information."

It also recommends shielding the private sector. "To aid in sharing this sensitive information, a Non-Disclosure Agreement may be used. The NDA provides private sector entities an additional layer of security, ensuring the security of private sector proprietary information and trade secrets," the document states.

As if that's not enough, the Justice Department document recommends that "fusion centers and their leadership encourage appropriate policymakers to legislate the protection of private sector data provided to fusion centers."
Matthew Rothschild is the editor of The Progressive.
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Where have I heard this before?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Morgan Mghee on Jul 9, 2008 2:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Munich in late 1920, Hitler created the Ordnertruppen, a body of ex-soldiers and beer hall brawlers in order to protect gatherings of the Nazi party from disruptions from Social Democrats and Communists. On November 4, 1921 the Nazi party held a large public meeting in the Munich Hofbräuhaus. After Hitler had spoken for some time the meeting erupted into a melee in which a small company of Ordnertruppen distinguished itself by thrashing the opposition. The Nazis called this event "Saalschlacht" (meeting hall battle). After this the organization came to be called the SA. From April 1924 until late February 1925 the SA was known as the Frontbann to avoid the temporary ban on the Nazi party. The SA carried out numerous acts of violence against socialist groups throughout the 1920s, typically in minor street-fights called Zusammenstöße ('collisions'). As the Nazis went from an extremist political party in the turbulent times of 1920's Germany to the unquestioned government of the nation, the SA was no longer needed for its original purpose. After Hitler took power in 1933, the SA became increasingly eager for power and saw themselves as the replacement for the German army. This angered the regular army (Reichswehr) who already resented the Nazi party. It also led to tension with other leaders within the party who saw Röhm's increasingly powerful SA as a threat to their own personal ambitions. I guess if you're going fascist, go all the way.
I will be re-printing this for the R and D conventions.

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» Good Germans Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Good Germans Posted by: john mont
» RE: Castro's Cuba Posted by: Sushi
» RE: Castro's Cuba Posted by: Turiye
» RE: Castro's Cuba Posted by: richholland
» RE: Cuba again! Posted by: davidg
» In the History books Posted by: Krain61

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Who's Next
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Jbuuty on Jul 9, 2008 2:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I read these sort of reports, I wonder now that the USA has seemed to enjoy many years as the bastion of democracy and freedom (not perfectly, but better than most) in the world; and its term has come to an end through the Bush administration (though it has been building for a few decades), which country will emerge as the next good example.

With the Magna Carta, England enjoyed some years there. The Dutch were early promoters of religious freedom. France had 'la revolution et les droits de l'homme'. But they've all had their moments and moved on toward lesser ideals.

Now that the USA has moved on also, who will be next? Are there any democratic and freedom contenders out there? Will an underdog emerge among the developing nations? Will there be a next one?

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» Yes! Posted by: photon's feather

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Highway Watch
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Posted by: DR. LARRY MITCHELL on Jul 9, 2008 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a truck driver for a number of years. In 2004, they began training in a program called "Highway Watch,' delineating precisely the m.o. offered here. We were instructed to call in and report: cars stalled by the side of the road, people taking pictures of industrial complexes, etc. It was all a bit ridiculous and none of us took it seriously, but the Orwellian factor was not lost on the brighter bulbs. It was termed as "optional,' but in ways difficult to describe, we were given the impression that to refuse the training would be to our detriment.

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» RE: Highway Watch Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Highway Watch Posted by: Dboy

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This would
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Posted by: walldodger1969 on Jul 9, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a great film story ,or should it be a documentary?

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» RE: This would Posted by: Lauren

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Gestapo
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Posted by: HBoyer on Jul 9, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember Bush's Grand Father helped
Hitler build concentration camps
in Europe. His Father often referred
to the NEW WORLD ORDER in his speeches.

There are groups in the country that
would love to do away with the Bill of Rights
and the Constitution.

One major group would replace them with the
Ten Commandments.

Another group would replace them with
Profits before Freedom.

When you have a gutless congress you have a dictator for president. Just ask the Germans in the 1920's-The rise of HITLER

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» Ten Commandments? Posted by: truthlover
» RE: Ten Commandments? Posted by: Krain61
» RE: Ten Commandments? Posted by: SouthernWolf
» RE: Gestapo Posted by: john mont
» RE: Gestapo Posted by: BlammDaddy

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Why should we be surprised that Bush is hiring more terrorists?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Nightstallion on Jul 9, 2008 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He has made his War ON Terrorism a bastion for un employed want to be terrorists from the beginning. Medical and intelligence terrorists are just the icing on his cake.

At least we know which side the butter is on with these home bred types who's feelings of superiority and arrogant self-righteousness have formed stumbling blocks to their up mobility till now.

There is nothing a bully likes better than throwing rocks from hiding. It is a sure fire way to demonstrate to the world their superiority since they do it so well and with such panache.

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Shrub/Chainey are TERRORISTS, Arrest them and throw away the Key!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: williameon on Jul 9, 2008 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Crimes against Humanity!
IRAQ: Crime of the Century.
Mass Murdering,
WMD Mongering
Psychopaths!

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Nothing New
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Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 9, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been going on since 9/11 in the Muslim community. The FBI has ingratiated itself with various mosques and communities and recruited "volunteers" to report on so-called suspicious activity.

Also, here where I live our public transportation system has posted a hot line number for reporting "suspicious" passengers. The posters have a catchy phrase, "If you see something, say something."

But Americans who, out of a misguided sense of patriotism, agree to spy on fellow citizens? This is reminiscent of the McCarthy era. Next thing you know, people will be called into kangaroo courts or tribunals to "report" on their neighbors.

This is fascism, pure and simple. What is it going to take to make people take notice and demand that it stop?

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» RE: Nothing New Posted by: Turiye
» RE: Nothing New Posted by: harryf200
» RE: Nothing New Posted by: jackyD
» RE: Nothing New Posted by: vioibi
» RE: Nothing New Posted by: Romantic Violence

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Soldiers of Fortune Magazine
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jul 9, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember when Soldiers of Fortune first arrived on the magazine racks? The political and ethical repulsion was so strong, that the outlets that carried the publication, it was pulled from the shelves.

People were horrified that people hired out to kill in countries other than their own.

And now? The downsizing, and privitization of sectors of what were once military positions of the Department of Defense, started in the Reagan Administration, has made the USA a bastion of what was abhorrent in the '70s.

"Depopulated" the United States Military and hire Mercenaries; we know a small portion of Blackwater's "abilities."

Who else, and from what countries, does the USA hire as mercenaries?

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Fear Factor
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Posted by: divetrader on Jul 9, 2008 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was an idiot! When the Twin Towers were destroyed I was working in the loop of Chicago. I immediately fell for the propaganda that the right wing fed us. I believed them when they wrote that terrorists had taken pictures of the towers from different view points as well as video tape them from different angles to help plan the attack. So, after I saw people "tourists" taking pictures of the Sears Tower or any other skyscrapers, I would call the police. I called them twice. I fell for the Bush propaganda hook, line and sinker. What a fool I was. It took a while to realize that this is exactly what Bush and Cheney wanted. They used Hitlers play book perfectly. It has been nearly 7 years. Why are people falling for it now?

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» RE: Fear Factor Posted by: Lauren
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» RE: Fear Factor Posted by: vioibi
» RE: Fear Factor Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Fear Factor Posted by: divetrader

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Reality Versus Your Comforting Illusions- another article
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bastet62 on Jul 9, 2008 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's an article at worldcantwait.org called, "Reality Versus Your Comforting Illusions" which talks about this exact subject in the article. Here's an excerpt:

"Is there a record of you clicking on this link and the length of your stay at this link? Is that too paranoid of a thought for you? Is it tinfoil hat time? But think seriously about this: is it just possible that there now exists a record of YOU reading THIS article? And if so, why, and how does that record make YOU or me safer from terrorism?

The fact is that it doesn’t make us safer at all, what it does is it puts both of us in danger: in danger of being considered an enemy combatant by our own government, a government that has legalized and codified torture as an interrogation method. Do we really want our public and our intimate actions judged and recorded by the criteria that the horrendously corrupt and murderous Bush regime would like to measure us by? Unfortunately the truth is that it is already happening, and the vast majority of Americans continue to do nothing as the Bush regime’s agenda expands and solidifies itself in an ever-widening worldwide grip that strangles civil and human rights."

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The switch to Fascism and Dictatorship in Western Society Started Over 10 Years Ago
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Posted by: opmoc on Jul 9, 2008 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It started before Bush, and before 9/11. These events merely accelerated a process who's roots are entrenched in the management psychology taught to professionals in national and local government as well as major corporate companies. It affects all levels of society and the effects are obvious.

20 years ago we were largely an empowered society where people used their own common and moral sense to perform their job - whatever it was - to the best of their ability for the common good. In interactions with people and processes the objective was always to produce a satisfactory outcome. This may have in some cases meant "breaking the rules", but the rules were only there as guidelines and never perceived as being infallible. Sometimes breaking the rules is necessary and acceptable providing the overiding morality is maintained.

For example when meeting even a minor official in a situation where you require their help, it would be normal for them to go out of their way to help you. You were perceived as a human being - just like them - and it was their job to help you - and they did their best to do so.

Now you might still be lucky and meet someone who wants to help you - or you may meet a Fascist who goes out of his way to do the direct opposite of helping you - and who is even being financially rewarded by the system that employs him to cause as much disruption and upset to you as possible.

The Dictatorship we have now directly results in this outcome because sociopathic idiots who have no conscience or interest in others end up in positions of power at all levels in society.

Dictatorship produces rules and "performance" based systems that result in the direct opposite of good practice.

For example someone may be financially rewarded dependent on the number of problems they are measured to have resolved. The more problems they have, the more they will get paid. If they are measured to have very few problems they will not only be paid less - but are in a real danger as being perceived as not of any value - and end up getting fired.

It never even occurred to the idiots in control, that the person with the least problems was the only one who was actually doing his job properly. He was getting paid the least because instead of causing mayhem generating as many problems as possible to put on his job sheet, he was actually preventing any serious problems from occuring in the first place.

In the UK the effects of this nonsense are obvious to anyone who works in the Police, The National Health Service or Education - but its just as endemic in Large Corporations.

The end result of this process will be the complete breakdown of society.

Dictatorship simply doesn't work. What works is empowerment and encouragement and giving responsibility such that people are allowed to make sensible decisions using their own initiative and skills.

Large companies need to broken up into much smaller entities.

Exactly the same applies to large government.

Governments are a cost and drain on society. They don't actually produce anything of value. Their only use is in moderating behaviour and enforcing morality via the application of laws for the common good. Their performance has recently been appalling. Governments need to recognise this and start reforming themselves and stop trying to do that which they are incapable of.

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» RE: Dwight D.Eisenhower 1961 Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: Dwight D.Eisenhower 1961 Posted by: VZEQICVA

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Why not secretly recruit everybody?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Last Chance on Jul 9, 2008 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Federal agencies are recruiting ordinary citizens to spy on other ordinary citizens?? That resembles the Soviet system more than the German Gestapo. The classic case is the husband and wife, each secretly a member of the Communist Party and each assigned to spy on the other, and their close friends are also sending in reports. That way the entire population spies on itself and each one thinks he or she is one of a few on the inside and everyone else is out. It's an absurd deception, but it worked.

So, it would appear the Bush style of fascism is to learn from historical examples and fashion a style that works in America. Hmmmm. I wonder if that includes my next door neighbor and good friend Joe Dokes? I guess I'd better be careful what I say to him! Thus, the entire population is very careful what it says. Then, to get anywhere in such a society there is "the willing suspension of disbelief" when you force your mind to accept the rediculous as true -- and Voltaire's prophetic words are ignored: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." as in Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and next, Bush America?

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get this...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ellie on Jul 9, 2008 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ok, so I teach sociology at a university... try to find the classics in local libraries so students can go off campus instead of piling in to the university library all at once to do their reading... guess what... most all are 'missing'...

we have required courses in deviance (pretty broad area of study in the first place) which is a treasure trove of all the material these watch groups are looking for and it is not unusual to lend materials of our own from other authors, our own research drafts go out for peer review to other sociologists, and we lecture on these topics even in intro courses on 'terrorism, revolutions and wars'...

this isn't snooping for hire new news on the home front, we just work our way around the governmental paranoia and continue in our discipline... many of us have been waiting for the big black van for a long time and the discipline reunion we could have... are we dangerous teachers? no... we just do what our discipline demands of us which is a 360' examination of social events or phenomena which includes the good, the bad and the ugly side of systems...

back to coffee...

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» RE: get this... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: get this... Posted by: Lauren
» film review blocked Posted by: linecrosser
» RE: film review blocked Posted by: Lauren

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The most efficient police state in the history of the world...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Cybershaman on Jul 9, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All implemented under the banner, "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
The flaw in that reasoning is those in power define what is 'wrong'. How many of your everyday activities are ripe for 'reclassifying'?
"That can't happen here!" you say. "We have checks and balances to safeguard our liberties!"
All it takes is to redefine what you do as 'criminal'. We have already gone down this path. Enjoy your cigarette.

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May as well go All the Way
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Posted by: talkville on Jul 9, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For myself, I figure may as well Internalize and Integrate all this and make it all more Efficient: I'll spy on myself in all places and at all times and in all contexts. I am training myself (disciplining) in a completely rationalized and perfect and excellent way to prepare, on a regular basis, a Report which I'll submit to the Police on a weekly basis, complete with bullet-ed items in their order of significance to the Stasis of the State and an analysis of potential threats to Utter Stability and Continuity.

This week for instance I Reported that myself, together with several other like-minded and loyal members of my Cell conspired together and proceeded to carry out an Action. We agreed to meet at an assigned place and time, known only to us, this place being known as the I-HOP on Elm and Mission St. wherein we would daringly and in full zealous and ideological purity participate in ordering the employees of such place to bring before us, post-haste, a hearty and full breakfast. We coerced them to follow to the letter and under the penalty of non-payment and thus a threat to their continued existence to provide such breakfast in the exact and precise way as demanded and commanded by us.

Given the fact that we are such a disciplined and organized force in these endeavors, I figured these qualities we shared together constitue a potential threat to the over-all Security of the United States of America, since these qualities we exhibited in this Action may just well be put to use for OTHER purposes, such as composing letters to Editors and Congressmen and such expressing our opinions on the significance of Breakfast, its Safety and Stability and Position in the Scheme of maintaining complete and efficient management of approved daily activities of the population.

If each one of us simply integrates and absorbs this habit of spying on ourselves, it will not only save immense and tedious labors in recruiting others to do it for us, but it will go a long, long way to creating this Totally Pure, Totally Efficient, Totally Rational Self-sustaining Law and Order that constitutes The Homeland. After a bit of practice, it'll all just be "second-Nature". A bit of Training, a bit of Discipline, a bit of Coaching and Practice, and soon each one of us will be able to say, always and forever and in all places: L'Etat c'est Moi. Exact and Perfect Life, Exact and Perfect Liberty, and Exact and Perfect precise ways and means in the Pursuit of Happiness.

Save them all this trouble; spy on yourself and Report, on a Regular Basis to your Authorities. No aspect of your Personality or Activities is beyond Scrutiny; each is a Potential Threat and thus must be at all times presented to those who ARE (and not only "Represent") Law, Order and Security. They, themselves, are exempt. Why? Because they said so.

Report that you might dis-agree. This threatens Stasis, and they need to Know so as to contain and if necessary snuff-out such potentials. This is your Duty, as a member of The Homeland.

A Fuehrer can take many forms, as can Thousand Year Reichs... .

Arise, Volk! And Report to your Father-land. Your partisanship to Pancakes may not be wholesome and may disrupt the standing determination that the Best and Most Healthful and Purifying nutrition for the American Body consists of a cup of yogurt, a slice of dry whole-wheat toast and fruit of your choice (you HAVE Free Choice!!). Serve The Homeland and fulfill your Destiny. Carry out your Duty to the State: spy on yourself and Report. A Good American can only be this way... all the way.

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» RE: May as well go All the Way Posted by: Bastet62
» RE: May as well go All the Way Posted by: talkville

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Just got kicked off the Web entirely, when I Hit 'Post a comment'
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 9, 2008 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was George Orwell a Prophet? A Modern times Nostradamus?
Or just a outline for Cheney Inc to follow.
The "Tin Hats" deserve an Apology, at least a change in term..."Thinking Caps"?
Considering the lessons learned from Nazi Germany and the tyranny of Hitler, how can we continue to be so blind and allow our Congress to do nothing. This admin, their associates, Congress and SCOTUS are guilty of Treason, War Crimes & Crimes Against Humanity.

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Lovely
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jul 9, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Welcome to the New Regime! Dictator Bush has really outodne himself this time. No wonder the US is the laughing stalk of the world!

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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And when Obama continues this, what then?
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Posted by: jwverez on Jul 9, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to see the looks on the entire "liberal" blogosphere when their man sells them out. Oh, and the "conservative" blogosphere will be having plenty of beer parties as Obama keeps moving to the "right".

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Patterns of dots
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Posted by: JayHaden on Jul 9, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fifteen years ago, when trying to organize global information for an international conference, I found that some private firms were developing internet data mining programs that created topological "maps." These maps showed potential relationships among billions of bits of information in a visual, three-dimensional way. They revealed strong, close connections as well as distant, weak ones. They could be applied to any subject or any concept. This was a few years after Admiral Poindexter, as Reagan's National Security Advisor, was thrown in the klink for bad stuff related to the Iran-Contra mess. Resurrected by W, he headed a branch of the intel biz in the Defense Department, introducing us to the concept of total information management (TIM) to our horror. TIM was designed to let W (or his guys behind the curtain) direct pre-emptive strikes against conspiracies, based on what might be coagulating into a three-dimensional pattern of data. I think that some of the people who developed the TIM algorithms went into the private sector where I ran across them.

The topological mapping process hasn't gone away. In fact, it is the only explanation for streaming all telephone/internet traffic into a small room at ATT and other phone companies. I don't think that there is an intent to "listen in" on single conversations (although that potential is there and is probably an abusive reality). The intent is more probably to sift through mega-masses of words and phrases at enormously high speeds, in order to create maps that reveal human relationships at several degrees of separation. Not just any relationships, though, just the ones that point to possible acts of terrorism.

But, in order to emulate reality, such hypothetical revelations need some form of "ground truthing," far beyond the capabilities of FBI and CIA gumshoes. Enlisting citizen watchers would be a good way to identify numerous persons of interest, persons who register slightly positive on the penchant-for-terrorism scale. With this kind of information, the topological mapping programs can be calibrated more accurately. Eventually, all citizens might be classified to provide greater efficiency in fingering not only who done it but who might do it. Still with me? I'm sure the government is.

Sorry, I may be guilty of assigning to government a positive value for despotic autocracy without having done any ground truthing. But then ground truthing of the government is impossible when it classifies all its incriminating activities.

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» RE: Patterns of dots Posted by: Last Chance
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» RE: Patterns of dots Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: Patterns of dots Posted by: sicntired

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glaring lack of christian faith here
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Posted by: luzmejor on Jul 9, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Puts the lie to the Bush claim to be a faithful Christian in belief.

Seems he is putting faith in force and violence that began as personal hatred or fear. There has been a constant effort to make everyone else feel afraid of his neighbors too. (Even of innocent articles of clothing like a woman's see-through scarf, for heavens's sake!)

With even rescue workers seemingly recruited as spies also, Bush is saying that you can't trust anyone now. Is the next step to get the children afraid of their parents, so they will turn them in to authorities?

I'm glad people can see through this deliberate pattern of terrorizing the American people!

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» The opposite of Christian faith Posted by: Last Chance

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Excuse me, but can anybody tell me
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Posted by: mazel on Jul 9, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why are we not allowed to post any comments on the Craigslist story?

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ONE QUESTION
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 9, 2008 8:10 AM   
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Who's watching the people who are watching the people? Or, is there any dfference. Everybody in the White House has the goods oneverybody else. They spill their guts in the form of a book or resign. Some prefer talk TV. Not much happens to any of them. If enough people have enough dirt on others it becomes meaningless. That does not extend to t-shirst, bumper stickers and other harmless stuff. That's the part that makes me crazy. Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: ONE QUESTION Posted by: Lauren

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CIVIL LIBERTIES THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BUSH YEARS
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Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Jul 9, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last eight years will be remembered as one of the bleakest periods in American history for lack of compliance with the constitution, abuse of executive power, virtual obliteration of the principles of separation of powers and balance among the three branches of government.

Separation of powers between the executive branch and judicial branch began in Florida in the 2000 election when the court rendered a recount of the vote there impossible after the electoral system failed disastrously.

Bush’s use of signing statements gave him virtually complete control over the legislative process when he decided what clauses he would implement and which ones he wouldn’t. The refusal of Congress to take firm and effecacious action further nullified the legislative powers of Congress.

Abuse of the convention of executive privilege completely undermined the power of Congress to oversee the executive branch and the refusal of Congress to rectify the problem was tantamount to self-immolation.

Overshadowing all other attacks on democracy in America was the refusal of the House to launch impeachment proceedings against a President who probably committed more “high crimes and misdemeanors” than any other president. Bush lied to Congress and the American people about the justification for the war against Iraq, authorized torture and illegal wiretappings and ran roughshod over the legislative branch of government.

Comparing impeachment charges against Clinton for lying about a sexual encounter in the Oval Office to the crimes of Bush will be cannon fodder for historians as long as there is a history of the United States.

http://www.stateofdarkness.com

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Conquering the World, with Impunity?
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Posted by: aonghus36 on Jul 9, 2008 8:24 AM   
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As long as our country acts like world conquerors and resource stealers, we are going to have "liason officers". The other nations won't put up with our government's bullying ways lying down. Since they may not be able to amass an army to conquer us overtly, they will have to fight us by stealth. The fascists that run this country knows this. I think the solution is to elect somebody, if we can, that will not act as a Caesar. Then, we'll have to protect him from being assassinated. I guess that Obama is the closest person we have meeting this description. *sigh*

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Rev. Wright, X, nailed it earlier: the brutal American foreign policy is coming home to roast
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Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't be 'electing' brutal regimes that go around killing innocent civilians abroad, and expect that we are going to be treated differently in the long run (well, minorities already know the brutality of American governments first hand).

yeah, God Damn America, and all those morons who have voted to elect the members of the two-party dictatorship all these years.

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» good for you Posted by: davidg

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Homeland Security is a joke...
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Posted by: jollymon on Jul 9, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are there really jobs collecting data for big brother? I've yet to find them! And I'm looking.

I work at a non-profit and collect extensive geographic info on the region. I can't even give my data to govt agencies. My data is detailed and accurate and makes their work look pathetic, it is. Shortly after 911 my state pulled "sensitive" data off the public GIS servers, it went public again in about a year. I was in attendance at a state meeting where they decided the data wasn't sensitive because even state workers could not find locations on their maps. I guess they did not want to frustrate would be terrorists, who could learn more from a topo map.

All the security talk is nothing more then a transfer of your tax dollars to mostly incompetent private firms... essentially a big big joke on the American people!!

If my observations are wrong and big brother is reading this, by all means get in touch, I'll send ya a resume...I'm sure ya got my ip

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Deb
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Posted by: debmcd on Jul 9, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bush hates being compared to Hitler he should stop acting like a damn Nazi.

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» RE: Deb Posted by: Lauren

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Informers would be under pressure
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Posted by: HoboHomo on Jul 9, 2008 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to make things up, seeing as MOST of the folks spied upon would provide NO cause for alarm. Informers would be suspect of shirking their duty, or even COVERING for potential "terrorists" if they do NOT provide fodder for the terrorist database.

Who would be most likely targeted?

Homosexuals, definitely. Outspoken liberals. Minorities. The homeless. Any neighbors the informers dislike. Any female who shuns a (hetero) male informer's advances. Most participants in liberal forums such as alternet.

Are we having fun yet?

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. I FOUND ONE!!
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Posted by: Crazy H on Jul 9, 2008 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.

Oh, gawd, somebody please help! I saw someone engaging in suspicious activity! He's a known terrorist and murderer! Please send help right away!

The address is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...

.

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And Bush learned this from Hitler I'm sure.
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Jul 9, 2008 11:25 AM   
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This smacks of the enlistment of non-jews in Pre-War Germany who were called upon to report back to Gestapo about whatever any jews were doing.

America is in grave danger because of Bush, not because of terrorism threats. He will be gone soon, and most of Congress needs to follow him out the door.

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» Has to be true... Posted by: photon's feather

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the best way to combat information aquisition systems...
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Posted by: lexicon on Jul 9, 2008 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is with information.


So, what's the situation here? well...as a society, we (ostensibly) want to deter "terrorism".

That would be a good thing.

But, always there's a fly in the ointment. Flies like ointment, it would seem.

The "fly" I'm referring to, is of course, the DEFINITION of "terrorism".

When "terrorism" is "hateful, malicious acts of a fringe fundamentalist cabal, calculated to cause fear in the general populace" then, well, we're ALL FOR stopping terrorism. Particularly, "state-sponsored" terrorism, no matter what "state" is doing the "sponsoring".

We hope, in a democracy, that instead of choosing "terror", those fundamentalist factions would instead choose to integrate into the "process of democracy", and allow their ideas to flourish or perish, as the 'will of democracy' permits.

However, this "ideal" assumes that there is no such thing as "disenfranchisement".

There's the rub, eh?

A "democracy" that practices disenfranchisement, is no democracy at all, is it? and those that are disenfranchised, find that the only way to exercise their political will, is to go "outside" the system.

By definition, "outside the system".

SO...........


when "terrorism" comes to be defined as "actions by those who are OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM, attempting to effect political change on the system"...


THen Houston, we have a problem (you listening, Baker?)

ANYWAY...so we have this "problem" that the definition of terrorism is "mis-calibrated". Then INFORMATION must be the weapon to prevent the "system" from using information to further disenfranchise...

...information overload.


When EVERYONE is a criminal, then NOBODY is a criminal.

What has to happen, is that bank CEOs and Republican Town selectmen, and all the rich guys in town, and all the guys who drive hummers, have to end up on those lists.

...the lists then become useless.

But what about the terrorists? don't we WANT to stop them?

YES! a thousand times YES! but...


...we DON'T want to stop political opposition.


And when you get right down to it...political opposition is ALL ABOUT "nobody's going to stop ME from making TOO MUCH MONEY on this."


What I want to know is, when did the "players" decide that the GAME wasn't worth playing? Now, instead of playing the game and WINNING, they cheat the game.


Where's the damn fun in that?


lexicon

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Suspicious photos
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Jul 9, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an avid photography buff, I have done crazy stuff like lie on my belly to get a close up of an insect. Go up on roof tops to get a high angle. Stand there for an hour, waiting patiently for the bird to land on the fence post.

If anyone observed me doing these things, they would never figure me out. They'd think I was up to something sinister. Truth is, I LIKE close ups of insects. OK, that makes me weird.

Does it make me subversive?

I can see me being questioned in the gulag now: "What are ya in for?"
"I used my macro lens on a slug."
"Kill her now."

VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Pack Wolves Posted by: Cathyc

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Nazi Germany???
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Posted by: carbon-based on Jul 9, 2008 12:20 PM   
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I'd never thought I'd make that statement but it does ring familar tones of that era.

That said, isnt that the job of police officers, firefighters, paramedics, (maybe even utility workers)to keep an eye open for unusual activity.

I just read where airlines and homeland security are considering shock wrist bands for each passenger to keep them under control in necessary.

Scary times for sure! - The terrorists are winning.

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» RE: Nazi Germany??? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Nazi Germany??? Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Nazi Germany??? Posted by: ecl1958

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Research E. German Stasi
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Posted by: mark24 on Jul 9, 2008 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sounds very similar to the system used by the East German Stasi. After the fall of the E.German fascist regime, researchers estimated that 1 in 7 East Germans were cooperating with the Stasi by spying and reporting on their neighbors and family.

People need to read Orwell again.

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Let's Not Forget China's Cultural Revoution
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Posted by: Rosasharn on Jul 9, 2008 3:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During Mao's reign (of terror), anyone suspicious of the SLIGHTEST interest in anything outside the official government guidelines for living would be brought before tribunals held by their very own neighbors. Hey, and it got so bad that even one's OWN children were willing to turn in their parents for such vagaries as READING/POSSESSING Western literature or playing MUSIC. It took the better half of the twentieth century to overcome these attitudes, once they were in place. Americans should try reading a bit of world history once in a while, to find out what happens when citizens turn on each other. We should all be very scared of our own selves and how far we are willing to let fear dominate our lives.

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Gov. "CON tractors", hm? Anything for a buck.
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Posted by: common intelligence on Jul 9, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Children, spying on parents? Tree sitters being endangered and extracted by imported mexican tree arborists, contractors, hm. Anything for a buck.

Immigrants and illegals don't care what they do for money because it's better than doing without. They don't even know the consequences of their doings and don't care as long as what ever they are asked to do by the government assures their anonymous security.

Americans too, migrate across the nation escaping ill fates from other states and situations. They infiltrate "other" communities with a humble presents and anonymity of their own. But who are they?

Locals should always be bold and ask "where do you come from and what are you doing", to strangers. Even the meter readers, cable guy and neigborhood door knockers selling unsolicited Angus steaks , or Rupert Murdocks' Kirbey Vaccuum cleaners.

Let no stranger go without question. It could be your own government check'n You out !!

But remember Jack. "I'm checkin' You out."
I take names and numbers and photos. Leave me a cell phone message, I'll record that too!

I thank the supreme court now for letting it be known
Americans are Packin' Heat!

SO watch your spying or you may be made to answer for treaspassing.

"Don't Tread on ME".

Better think again if your little secret plan is worth you own safety and security. ( Then on the other hand if you don't care enough why should "We The People"?

One thing for sure the governement we all refer to is a serpent without ahead. It is unaccountable. And there is no one that really cares for your safety or security.

We are all individually expendable, a calculated risk that can be eliminated without a second thought. Because ther is NO ONE to actually think and NO ONE that cares.
You are all just statistical news items that will be known for a moment and forgotten the next.

SPY on GWB. But keep looking over your shoulder, cause we're spying one you.

"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you

Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
I'll be watching you

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be watching you".

STING

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Does Anyone Remember
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 9, 2008 4:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a couple of years ago AlterNet ran a story about the secret prisons that run across this country? These prisons are manned already, they are just waiting for some occupants. Enter my dumbass Senator Lindsey Graham, he suggested to Alberto Gonzalez that "we should be looking for 5th columnists" this is an old term for "anyone not with us, is against us." I can't believe these hillbillies down here kept him in office, but the choice was a real redneck or a jerk-off.

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» RE: Does Anyone Remember Posted by: cherylholmes

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bisexual
[Report this comment]
Posted by: john110 on Jul 9, 2008 9:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes ,i don't think ,but ,i aslo agreen!@!!we can cheek it ◆BIGBISEXUAL.C O M◆!!

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I thought the cold war was dead and gone
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jul 9, 2008 9:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now it turns out we've just internalized it. I have seen the enemy and he is us!

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A few points
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 9, 2008 9:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, let's see. The bushies are forging ahead full speed with their destructive "policies" and actions, unhindered by our phony congress, unreported by our controlled "press", and largely unknown to our brain dead "citizens" who've abrogated all sembelence of their responsibilities, if they even knew what they were in the first place. The latest gem from the Mob is a spy network composed of the same lackwits who likely voted for dumbya TWICE. It's almost as if they knew that the 2008 "election" will be another irrevelant sham, and it'll be business as usual as our once free nation descends into a tinpot dictatorship, with a "Boss" and a menagrie of suckups, thugs, and spys looking for those who still choose to think and act on their own. This, too shall pass but when, and at what cost? What a dreadful waste.

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Their are more of us than there are of them.
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Posted by: greenthumb on Jul 9, 2008 9:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We stand a better chance by hanging together and being as smart as a foxes.

The American Indian tribes might have been able to take back this country at one time if they could have worked together. They often fought with one another and discovered too late that it was in their vested interest to work together.

We can learn from this.Of course , trolls will try to sabotage our efforts.You have to wonder what kind of people would resort to this behavior against their own fellow citizens.This is war people, and we have to learn how to fight this.

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America - We Can Now Be Called a Fascist State
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Posted by: tommy57 on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 PM   
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Under this President, over 230 years of democracy has been reduced to a fascist state. However, these tactics are also employed in places like Cuba and China. So I guess we are really a Fascist - Communist state. The Bush family should be hunted down and all of the tried for treason. As far as members of his cabinet, they should be executed on the spot to save the country from the embarrassment of the hundreds of trials. Now that is Fascism and communism combined!

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Welcome to the NWO
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Posted by: sicntired on Jul 10, 2008 12:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sounds a lot like the Hitler youth,Khymer Rouge,Communist revolution and Stalinist Russia.Children informing on their parents,people turning others in for a pat on the back.Anyone with an education being imprisoned for re education.The war on drugs and terrorism both are being used to scare people into giving up their freedom for the greater good.Soon we will all have the right to do exactly what we're told and nothing else.Who that is good for is a mystery to me.Turning people against one another has been used by every petty dictator since time began.

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?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sicntired on Jul 10, 2008 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who would have thought about suspension of Habeus Corpus or Guantanimo or extraordinary rendition or water boarding?Need I continue?Nothing surprises me anymore.This country and the whole western world have lost their minds.Nobody cares anymore.

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people do care
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Posted by: jmk on Jul 10, 2008 5:46 PM   
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I think there are quite a number of people who care. I believe it is important to believe in the goodness of humanity, but to act well in the moment in a very grounded way. Be informed and do what you can. When the moments come when you can make a difference, you will know. By all means, keep paying attention and don't give up the vision.
The immediate answers are not in national politics, it's too slow, and they are too removed. Not that we should ignore it...but I am not holding my breath waiting for the miracle. The immediate answers lie in what strength we have in ourselves, our families, communities and then work on out. These seem to me to be more solid elements of change.I don't mean to sound simplistic, but folks, we have to learn to make connections in our communities, to network, in order to organize and know whose got your back and who you can count on. The fear factor wants us to believe we are alone and can't trust anybody. The first thing we have to do is act against the fear. A sense of humor helps.
The other thing we have to do is stop legislating our lives away. We are capable of making decisions in the moment, given the situation. ie: traffic surveillance. Hell, we don't even need traffic lights. We need to look at each other and communicate, as in a 4 way stop. There is more creativity and freedom in that situation, where our brains are engaged in communication, than there is in blind obedience. I am not making this a case about traffic regulation, however, I am saying that we need to be sure we are not asking "the law" to control us because we fear the few that refuse to act in concert with the rest of the community. If we can show respect for our children and stop isolating in our communities, eventually we have respectful citizens, and peace can be felt by a broader continuum.

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A "GOOD GERMAN" IS AN ACCOMPLICE TO MASS MURDER
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Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on Jul 10, 2008 9:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every "Good German" in the Senate and House are, by association, support, and protection of Bush and Cheney, et al, from impeachment and prosecution for their crimes, themselves, MASS MURDERERS, TORTURERS and TRAITORS. That includes Pelosi, Hoyer, Immanuel, and unfortunately John Conyers (who wrote the book on Bush and Republican CRIMES, but who has turned into the worst sort of coward), and every Republican or Democrat (including CLINTON) who shamelessly continues to defend their own complicity by protecting and excusing the crimes of the BUSH MAFIA.

DEMOCRACY IS LOST. FASCISM IS ALIVE AND WELL IN AMERICA!

WE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE -- WHO HAVE REFUSED, UP TO THIS POINT, TO ADMIT THEY, TOO, GAVE APPROVAL TO THE MASS MURDER, OCCUPATION, TORTURE, LOOTING AND ILLEGAL SPYING -- WILL WAKE UP WHEN THEY, TOO, FIND THEMSELVES ARRESTED OR SURROUNDED BY RAZOR WIRE BY THE U.S. NAZI "THOUGHT POLICE" AS THE OPPOSITION OFTEN IS WHILE THEY PROTEST. THEY WILL BE NOT ONLY OUTRAGED, BUT DEEPLY ASHAMED...AS HAVE THE GERMAN PEOPLE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

BLOOD IS DRIPPING FROM OUR WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS... IT'S TIME TO WASH IT CLEAN. A GOOD PLACE TO START IS BY WASHING THE VIOLENCE AND INDIFFERENCE FROM THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF AMERICANS...THOSE POOR, IGNORANT "GOOD GERMANS."

HEIL BUSH! HEIL CHENEY!

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I'M VOTING FOR NADER...
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Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on Jul 10, 2008 9:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama voted for telecom immunity, right? He praises and vows to defend the Zionist genocide of Palestinians. Congress gives Bush and future presidents SWEEPING SURVEILLANCE POWERS.

I'M VOTING FOR NADER...THE ONLY HONEST CANDIDATE LEFT.

DONATE HERE: http://www.votenader.org/

Watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOY8p40QfqA

AND ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...ASK WHY!

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maple story mesos
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Posted by: cheap-msmesos on Jul 12, 2008 7:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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THERE ARE KANGAROO COURTS IN THIS LAND WHERE YOU WILL ARRESTED
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Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 12, 2008 10:25 PM   
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and after the arrest friends of the officer and the court will called. They will all agree on your offense and who will witness. They then bring you before a friendly judge and a friendly prosecutor presents the fixed witnesses.

If you can afford an attorney the judge will not allow your attorney to present a case to a jury by selecting what evidence can be presented. You have no chance of winning. The charge, of course, is a felony. You have no choice but to plea bargain. You end up as a convicted felon and are completely innocent. Your only crime was that you had a powerful enemy.

This a prime technique of the KKK. The arresting officer, the witnesses, the prosecutor, and the judge will all be KKK. The KKK has seen 80% growth since 2000 according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This happens to white people in the south who befriend blacks. You are under no obligation to believe a word of this. Set out and do your own checking.

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in your guts you know he is nuts
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Posted by: whealeydj on Jul 13, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
applies to Reagan and Bush even more than Goldwater. I date the turn toward authoritarianism to Reagan election of 1980. I also prefer draw parallels between W Republicans and Soviet Union rather than Nazi. They have heard the Nazi parallels so much and it makes them madder to be called Stalinists; calling W Jeb's Big Brother gets the point across imo.

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Here we Go!
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Posted by: mike_burns on Jul 13, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ultra right wing likes doing away with freedom and rights. After they have done their fine work, I would like to see a leftist take power. I would like to see Walt Street and Madison Avenue people put into re-education camps. I would like them to listen to translations of Castro, Linens essays on Marx, Mao's little red book. It would be a great day. We can all wear the same kinds of cloths. Everyone would have the latest fashion, which never changes. No one would do with out. Everyone with a home and free medical care. No longer, would we have religion crammed at us.
We don't have to be like the Chinese or Russians. We can have a unique Full Blooded American Socialist State. Then we could consider real empire.
Someone Report Me!

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Where have I heard this before?
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Posted by: Morgan Mghee on Jul 9, 2008 2:06 AM   
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In Munich in late 1920, Hitler created the Ordnertruppen, a body of ex-soldiers and beer hall brawlers in order to protect gatherings of the Nazi party from disruptions from Social Democrats and Communists. On November 4, 1921 the Nazi party held a large public meeting in the Munich Hofbräuhaus. After Hitler had spoken for some time the meeting erupted into a melee in which a small company of Ordnertruppen distinguished itself by thrashing the opposition. The Nazis called this event "Saalschlacht" (meeting hall battle). After this the organization came to be called the SA. From April 1924 until late February 1925 the SA was known as the Frontbann to avoid the temporary ban on the Nazi party. The SA carried out numerous acts of violence against socialist groups throughout the 1920s, typically in minor street-fights called Zusammenstöße ('collisions'). As the Nazis went from an extremist political party in the turbulent times of 1920's Germany to the unquestioned government of the nation, the SA was no longer needed for its original purpose. After Hitler took power in 1933, the SA became increasingly eager for power and saw themselves as the replacement for the German army. This angered the regular army (Reichswehr) who already resented the Nazi party. It also led to tension with other leaders within the party who saw Röhm's increasingly powerful SA as a threat to their own personal ambitions. I guess if you're going fascist, go all the way.
I will be re-printing this for the R and D conventions.

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» Good Germans Posted by: Dboy
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» RE: Castro's Cuba Posted by: Sushi
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» RE: Cuba again! Posted by: davidg
» In the History books Posted by: Krain61

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Who's Next
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Posted by: Jbuuty on Jul 9, 2008 2:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I read these sort of reports, I wonder now that the USA has seemed to enjoy many years as the bastion of democracy and freedom (not perfectly, but better than most) in the world; and its term has come to an end through the Bush administration (though it has been building for a few decades), which country will emerge as the next good example.

With the Magna Carta, England enjoyed some years there. The Dutch were early promoters of religious freedom. France had 'la revolution et les droits de l'homme'. But they've all had their moments and moved on toward lesser ideals.

Now that the USA has moved on also, who will be next? Are there any democratic and freedom contenders out there? Will an underdog emerge among the developing nations? Will there be a next one?

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» Yes! Posted by: photon's feather

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Highway Watch
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Posted by: DR. LARRY MITCHELL on Jul 9, 2008 3:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was a truck driver for a number of years. In 2004, they began training in a program called "Highway Watch,' delineating precisely the m.o. offered here. We were instructed to call in and report: cars stalled by the side of the road, people taking pictures of industrial complexes, etc. It was all a bit ridiculous and none of us took it seriously, but the Orwellian factor was not lost on the brighter bulbs. It was termed as "optional,' but in ways difficult to describe, we were given the impression that to refuse the training would be to our detriment.

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» RE: Highway Watch Posted by: Lauren
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This would
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Posted by: walldodger1969 on Jul 9, 2008 3:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a great film story ,or should it be a documentary?

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» RE: This would Posted by: Lauren

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Gestapo
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Posted by: HBoyer on Jul 9, 2008 3:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember Bush's Grand Father helped
Hitler build concentration camps
in Europe. His Father often referred
to the NEW WORLD ORDER in his speeches.

There are groups in the country that
would love to do away with the Bill of Rights
and the Constitution.

One major group would replace them with the
Ten Commandments.

Another group would replace them with
Profits before Freedom.

When you have a gutless congress you have a dictator for president. Just ask the Germans in the 1920's-The rise of HITLER

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» Ten Commandments? Posted by: truthlover
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Why should we be surprised that Bush is hiring more terrorists?
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Posted by: Nightstallion on Jul 9, 2008 4:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He has made his War ON Terrorism a bastion for un employed want to be terrorists from the beginning. Medical and intelligence terrorists are just the icing on his cake.

At least we know which side the butter is on with these home bred types who's feelings of superiority and arrogant self-righteousness have formed stumbling blocks to their up mobility till now.

There is nothing a bully likes better than throwing rocks from hiding. It is a sure fire way to demonstrate to the world their superiority since they do it so well and with such panache.

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Shrub/Chainey are TERRORISTS, Arrest them and throw away the Key!
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Posted by: williameon on Jul 9, 2008 4:49 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Crimes against Humanity!
IRAQ: Crime of the Century.
Mass Murdering,
WMD Mongering
Psychopaths!

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Nothing New
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Posted by: beautifulady2003 on Jul 9, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This has been going on since 9/11 in the Muslim community. The FBI has ingratiated itself with various mosques and communities and recruited "volunteers" to report on so-called suspicious activity.

Also, here where I live our public transportation system has posted a hot line number for reporting "suspicious" passengers. The posters have a catchy phrase, "If you see something, say something."

But Americans who, out of a misguided sense of patriotism, agree to spy on fellow citizens? This is reminiscent of the McCarthy era. Next thing you know, people will be called into kangaroo courts or tribunals to "report" on their neighbors.

This is fascism, pure and simple. What is it going to take to make people take notice and demand that it stop?

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» RE: Nothing New Posted by: Romantic Violence

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Soldiers of Fortune Magazine
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Posted by: Prairie Waif on Jul 9, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember when Soldiers of Fortune first arrived on the magazine racks? The political and ethical repulsion was so strong, that the outlets that carried the publication, it was pulled from the shelves.

People were horrified that people hired out to kill in countries other than their own.

And now? The downsizing, and privitization of sectors of what were once military positions of the Department of Defense, started in the Reagan Administration, has made the USA a bastion of what was abhorrent in the '70s.

"Depopulated" the United States Military and hire Mercenaries; we know a small portion of Blackwater's "abilities."

Who else, and from what countries, does the USA hire as mercenaries?

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Fear Factor
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Posted by: divetrader on Jul 9, 2008 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was an idiot! When the Twin Towers were destroyed I was working in the loop of Chicago. I immediately fell for the propaganda that the right wing fed us. I believed them when they wrote that terrorists had taken pictures of the towers from different view points as well as video tape them from different angles to help plan the attack. So, after I saw people "tourists" taking pictures of the Sears Tower or any other skyscrapers, I would call the police. I called them twice. I fell for the Bush propaganda hook, line and sinker. What a fool I was. It took a while to realize that this is exactly what Bush and Cheney wanted. They used Hitlers play book perfectly. It has been nearly 7 years. Why are people falling for it now?

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» RE: Fear Factor Posted by: Lauren
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» RE: Fear Factor Posted by: divetrader

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Reality Versus Your Comforting Illusions- another article
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Posted by: Bastet62 on Jul 9, 2008 5:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's an article at worldcantwait.org called, "Reality Versus Your Comforting Illusions" which talks about this exact subject in the article. Here's an excerpt:

"Is there a record of you clicking on this link and the length of your stay at this link? Is that too paranoid of a thought for you? Is it tinfoil hat time? But think seriously about this: is it just possible that there now exists a record of YOU reading THIS article? And if so, why, and how does that record make YOU or me safer from terrorism?

The fact is that it doesn’t make us safer at all, what it does is it puts both of us in danger: in danger of being considered an enemy combatant by our own government, a government that has legalized and codified torture as an interrogation method. Do we really want our public and our intimate actions judged and recorded by the criteria that the horrendously corrupt and murderous Bush regime would like to measure us by? Unfortunately the truth is that it is already happening, and the vast majority of Americans continue to do nothing as the Bush regime’s agenda expands and solidifies itself in an ever-widening worldwide grip that strangles civil and human rights."

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The switch to Fascism and Dictatorship in Western Society Started Over 10 Years Ago
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Posted by: opmoc on Jul 9, 2008 5:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It started before Bush, and before 9/11. These events merely accelerated a process who's roots are entrenched in the management psychology taught to professionals in national and local government as well as major corporate companies. It affects all levels of society and the effects are obvious.

20 years ago we were largely an empowered society where people used their own common and moral sense to perform their job - whatever it was - to the best of their ability for the common good. In interactions with people and processes the objective was always to produce a satisfactory outcome. This may have in some cases meant "breaking the rules", but the rules were only there as guidelines and never perceived as being infallible. Sometimes breaking the rules is necessary and acceptable providing the overiding morality is maintained.

For example when meeting even a minor official in a situation where you require their help, it would be normal for them to go out of their way to help you. You were perceived as a human being - just like them - and it was their job to help you - and they did their best to do so.

Now you might still be lucky and meet someone who wants to help you - or you may meet a Fascist who goes out of his way to do the direct opposite of helping you - and who is even being financially rewarded by the system that employs him to cause as much disruption and upset to you as possible.

The Dictatorship we have now directly results in this outcome because sociopathic idiots who have no conscience or interest in others end up in positions of power at all levels in society.

Dictatorship produces rules and "performance" based systems that result in the direct opposite of good practice.

For example someone may be financially rewarded dependent on the number of problems they are measured to have resolved. The more problems they have, the more they will get paid. If they are measured to have very few problems they will not only be paid less - but are in a real danger as being perceived as not of any value - and end up getting fired.

It never even occurred to the idiots in control, that the person with the least problems was the only one who was actually doing his job properly. He was getting paid the least because instead of causing mayhem generating as many problems as possible to put on his job sheet, he was actually preventing any serious problems from occuring in the first place.

In the UK the effects of this nonsense are obvious to anyone who works in the Police, The National Health Service or Education - but its just as endemic in Large Corporations.

The end result of this process will be the complete breakdown of society.

Dictatorship simply doesn't work. What works is empowerment and encouragement and giving responsibility such that people are allowed to make sensible decisions using their own initiative and skills.

Large companies need to broken up into much smaller entities.

Exactly the same applies to large government.

Governments are a cost and drain on society. They don't actually produce anything of value. Their only use is in moderating behaviour and enforcing morality via the application of laws for the common good. Their performance has recently been appalling. Governments need to recognise this and start reforming themselves and stop trying to do that which they are incapable of.

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» RE: Dwight D.Eisenhower 1961 Posted by: Purple Girl
» RE: Dwight D.Eisenhower 1961 Posted by: VZEQICVA

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Why not secretly recruit everybody?
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Posted by: Last Chance on Jul 9, 2008 5:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Federal agencies are recruiting ordinary citizens to spy on other ordinary citizens?? That resembles the Soviet system more than the German Gestapo. The classic case is the husband and wife, each secretly a member of the Communist Party and each assigned to spy on the other, and their close friends are also sending in reports. That way the entire population spies on itself and each one thinks he or she is one of a few on the inside and everyone else is out. It's an absurd deception, but it worked.

So, it would appear the Bush style of fascism is to learn from historical examples and fashion a style that works in America. Hmmmm. I wonder if that includes my next door neighbor and good friend Joe Dokes? I guess I'd better be careful what I say to him! Thus, the entire population is very careful what it says. Then, to get anywhere in such a society there is "the willing suspension of disbelief" when you force your mind to accept the rediculous as true -- and Voltaire's prophetic words are ignored: "Those who can make you believe absurdities can make you commit atrocities." as in Nazi Germany, Soviet Russia and next, Bush America?

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get this...
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Posted by: ellie on Jul 9, 2008 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ok, so I teach sociology at a university... try to find the classics in local libraries so students can go off campus instead of piling in to the university library all at once to do their reading... guess what... most all are 'missing'...

we have required courses in deviance (pretty broad area of study in the first place) which is a treasure trove of all the material these watch groups are looking for and it is not unusual to lend materials of our own from other authors, our own research drafts go out for peer review to other sociologists, and we lecture on these topics even in intro courses on 'terrorism, revolutions and wars'...

this isn't snooping for hire new news on the home front, we just work our way around the governmental paranoia and continue in our discipline... many of us have been waiting for the big black van for a long time and the discipline reunion we could have... are we dangerous teachers? no... we just do what our discipline demands of us which is a 360' examination of social events or phenomena which includes the good, the bad and the ugly side of systems...

back to coffee...

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» RE: get this... Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: get this... Posted by: Lauren
» film review blocked Posted by: linecrosser
» RE: film review blocked Posted by: Lauren

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The most efficient police state in the history of the world...
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Posted by: Cybershaman on Jul 9, 2008 5:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All implemented under the banner, "If you aren't doing anything wrong, you have nothing to worry about."
The flaw in that reasoning is those in power define what is 'wrong'. How many of your everyday activities are ripe for 'reclassifying'?
"That can't happen here!" you say. "We have checks and balances to safeguard our liberties!"
All it takes is to redefine what you do as 'criminal'. We have already gone down this path. Enjoy your cigarette.

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May as well go All the Way
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Posted by: talkville on Jul 9, 2008 5:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For myself, I figure may as well Internalize and Integrate all this and make it all more Efficient: I'll spy on myself in all places and at all times and in all contexts. I am training myself (disciplining) in a completely rationalized and perfect and excellent way to prepare, on a regular basis, a Report which I'll submit to the Police on a weekly basis, complete with bullet-ed items in their order of significance to the Stasis of the State and an analysis of potential threats to Utter Stability and Continuity.

This week for instance I Reported that myself, together with several other like-minded and loyal members of my Cell conspired together and proceeded to carry out an Action. We agreed to meet at an assigned place and time, known only to us, this place being known as the I-HOP on Elm and Mission St. wherein we would daringly and in full zealous and ideological purity participate in ordering the employees of such place to bring before us, post-haste, a hearty and full breakfast. We coerced them to follow to the letter and under the penalty of non-payment and thus a threat to their continued existence to provide such breakfast in the exact and precise way as demanded and commanded by us.

Given the fact that we are such a disciplined and organized force in these endeavors, I figured these qualities we shared together constitue a potential threat to the over-all Security of the United States of America, since these qualities we exhibited in this Action may just well be put to use for OTHER purposes, such as composing letters to Editors and Congressmen and such expressing our opinions on the significance of Breakfast, its Safety and Stability and Position in the Scheme of maintaining complete and efficient management of approved daily activities of the population.

If each one of us simply integrates and absorbs this habit of spying on ourselves, it will not only save immense and tedious labors in recruiting others to do it for us, but it will go a long, long way to creating this Totally Pure, Totally Efficient, Totally Rational Self-sustaining Law and Order that constitutes The Homeland. After a bit of practice, it'll all just be "second-Nature". A bit of Training, a bit of Discipline, a bit of Coaching and Practice, and soon each one of us will be able to say, always and forever and in all places: L'Etat c'est Moi. Exact and Perfect Life, Exact and Perfect Liberty, and Exact and Perfect precise ways and means in the Pursuit of Happiness.

Save them all this trouble; spy on yourself and Report, on a Regular Basis to your Authorities. No aspect of your Personality or Activities is beyond Scrutiny; each is a Potential Threat and thus must be at all times presented to those who ARE (and not only "Represent") Law, Order and Security. They, themselves, are exempt. Why? Because they said so.

Report that you might dis-agree. This threatens Stasis, and they need to Know so as to contain and if necessary snuff-out such potentials. This is your Duty, as a member of The Homeland.

A Fuehrer can take many forms, as can Thousand Year Reichs... .

Arise, Volk! And Report to your Father-land. Your partisanship to Pancakes may not be wholesome and may disrupt the standing determination that the Best and Most Healthful and Purifying nutrition for the American Body consists of a cup of yogurt, a slice of dry whole-wheat toast and fruit of your choice (you HAVE Free Choice!!). Serve The Homeland and fulfill your Destiny. Carry out your Duty to the State: spy on yourself and Report. A Good American can only be this way... all the way.

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» RE: May as well go All the Way Posted by: Bastet62
» RE: May as well go All the Way Posted by: talkville

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Just got kicked off the Web entirely, when I Hit 'Post a comment'
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jul 9, 2008 6:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Was George Orwell a Prophet? A Modern times Nostradamus?
Or just a outline for Cheney Inc to follow.
The "Tin Hats" deserve an Apology, at least a change in term..."Thinking Caps"?
Considering the lessons learned from Nazi Germany and the tyranny of Hitler, how can we continue to be so blind and allow our Congress to do nothing. This admin, their associates, Congress and SCOTUS are guilty of Treason, War Crimes & Crimes Against Humanity.

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Lovely
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Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jul 9, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Welcome to the New Regime! Dictator Bush has really outodne himself this time. No wonder the US is the laughing stalk of the world!

JT
Ultimate Anonymity

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And when Obama continues this, what then?
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Posted by: jwverez on Jul 9, 2008 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to see the looks on the entire "liberal" blogosphere when their man sells them out. Oh, and the "conservative" blogosphere will be having plenty of beer parties as Obama keeps moving to the "right".

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Patterns of dots
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Posted by: JayHaden on Jul 9, 2008 7:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fifteen years ago, when trying to organize global information for an international conference, I found that some private firms were developing internet data mining programs that created topological "maps." These maps showed potential relationships among billions of bits of information in a visual, three-dimensional way. They revealed strong, close connections as well as distant, weak ones. They could be applied to any subject or any concept. This was a few years after Admiral Poindexter, as Reagan's National Security Advisor, was thrown in the klink for bad stuff related to the Iran-Contra mess. Resurrected by W, he headed a branch of the intel biz in the Defense Department, introducing us to the concept of total information management (TIM) to our horror. TIM was designed to let W (or his guys behind the curtain) direct pre-emptive strikes against conspiracies, based on what might be coagulating into a three-dimensional pattern of data. I think that some of the people who developed the TIM algorithms went into the private sector where I ran across them.

The topological mapping process hasn't gone away. In fact, it is the only explanation for streaming all telephone/internet traffic into a small room at ATT and other phone companies. I don't think that there is an intent to "listen in" on single conversations (although that potential is there and is probably an abusive reality). The intent is more probably to sift through mega-masses of words and phrases at enormously high speeds, in order to create maps that reveal human relationships at several degrees of separation. Not just any relationships, though, just the ones that point to possible acts of terrorism.

But, in order to emulate reality, such hypothetical revelations need some form of "ground truthing," far beyond the capabilities of FBI and CIA gumshoes. Enlisting citizen watchers would be a good way to identify numerous persons of interest, persons who register slightly positive on the penchant-for-terrorism scale. With this kind of information, the topological mapping programs can be calibrated more accurately. Eventually, all citizens might be classified to provide greater efficiency in fingering not only who done it but who might do it. Still with me? I'm sure the government is.

Sorry, I may be guilty of assigning to government a positive value for despotic autocracy without having done any ground truthing. But then ground truthing of the government is impossible when it classifies all its incriminating activities.

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» RE: Patterns of dots Posted by: Last Chance
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glaring lack of christian faith here
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Posted by: luzmejor on Jul 9, 2008 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Puts the lie to the Bush claim to be a faithful Christian in belief.

Seems he is putting faith in force and violence that began as personal hatred or fear. There has been a constant effort to make everyone else feel afraid of his neighbors too. (Even of innocent articles of clothing like a woman's see-through scarf, for heavens's sake!)

With even rescue workers seemingly recruited as spies also, Bush is saying that you can't trust anyone now. Is the next step to get the children afraid of their parents, so they will turn them in to authorities?

I'm glad people can see through this deliberate pattern of terrorizing the American people!

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» The opposite of Christian faith Posted by: Last Chance

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Excuse me, but can anybody tell me
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Posted by: mazel on Jul 9, 2008 7:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why are we not allowed to post any comments on the Craigslist story?

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ONE QUESTION
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jul 9, 2008 8:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who's watching the people who are watching the people? Or, is there any dfference. Everybody in the White House has the goods oneverybody else. They spill their guts in the form of a book or resign. Some prefer talk TV. Not much happens to any of them. If enough people have enough dirt on others it becomes meaningless. That does not extend to t-shirst, bumper stickers and other harmless stuff. That's the part that makes me crazy. Thanks, ANNA

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» RE: ONE QUESTION Posted by: Lauren

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CIVIL LIBERTIES THE CONSTITUTION AND THE BUSH YEARS
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Posted by: david.model@senecac.on.ca on Jul 9, 2008 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The last eight years will be remembered as one of the bleakest periods in American history for lack of compliance with the constitution, abuse of executive power, virtual obliteration of the principles of separation of powers and balance among the three branches of government.

Separation of powers between the executive branch and judicial branch began in Florida in the 2000 election when the court rendered a recount of the vote there impossible after the electoral system failed disastrously.

Bush’s use of signing statements gave him virtually complete control over the legislative process when he decided what clauses he would implement and which ones he wouldn’t. The refusal of Congress to take firm and effecacious action further nullified the legislative powers of Congress.

Abuse of the convention of executive privilege completely undermined the power of Congress to oversee the executive branch and the refusal of Congress to rectify the problem was tantamount to self-immolation.

Overshadowing all other attacks on democracy in America was the refusal of the House to launch impeachment proceedings against a President who probably committed more “high crimes and misdemeanors” than any other president. Bush lied to Congress and the American people about the justification for the war against Iraq, authorized torture and illegal wiretappings and ran roughshod over the legislative branch of government.

Comparing impeachment charges against Clinton for lying about a sexual encounter in the Oval Office to the crimes of Bush will be cannon fodder for historians as long as there is a history of the United States.

http://www.stateofdarkness.com

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Conquering the World, with Impunity?
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Posted by: aonghus36 on Jul 9, 2008 8:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as our country acts like world conquerors and resource stealers, we are going to have "liason officers". The other nations won't put up with our government's bullying ways lying down. Since they may not be able to amass an army to conquer us overtly, they will have to fight us by stealth. The fascists that run this country knows this. I think the solution is to elect somebody, if we can, that will not act as a Caesar. Then, we'll have to protect him from being assassinated. I guess that Obama is the closest person we have meeting this description. *sigh*

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Rev. Wright, X, nailed it earlier: the brutal American foreign policy is coming home to roast
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Posted by: Ydotheyhateus on Jul 9, 2008 8:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't be 'electing' brutal regimes that go around killing innocent civilians abroad, and expect that we are going to be treated differently in the long run (well, minorities already know the brutality of American governments first hand).

yeah, God Damn America, and all those morons who have voted to elect the members of the two-party dictatorship all these years.

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» good for you Posted by: davidg

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Homeland Security is a joke...
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Posted by: jollymon on Jul 9, 2008 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are there really jobs collecting data for big brother? I've yet to find them! And I'm looking.

I work at a non-profit and collect extensive geographic info on the region. I can't even give my data to govt agencies. My data is detailed and accurate and makes their work look pathetic, it is. Shortly after 911 my state pulled "sensitive" data off the public GIS servers, it went public again in about a year. I was in attendance at a state meeting where they decided the data wasn't sensitive because even state workers could not find locations on their maps. I guess they did not want to frustrate would be terrorists, who could learn more from a topo map.

All the security talk is nothing more then a transfer of your tax dollars to mostly incompetent private firms... essentially a big big joke on the American people!!

If my observations are wrong and big brother is reading this, by all means get in touch, I'll send ya a resume...I'm sure ya got my ip

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Deb
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Posted by: debmcd on Jul 9, 2008 9:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Bush hates being compared to Hitler he should stop acting like a damn Nazi.

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» RE: Deb Posted by: Lauren

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Informers would be under pressure
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Posted by: HoboHomo on Jul 9, 2008 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to make things up, seeing as MOST of the folks spied upon would provide NO cause for alarm. Informers would be suspect of shirking their duty, or even COVERING for potential "terrorists" if they do NOT provide fodder for the terrorist database.

Who would be most likely targeted?

Homosexuals, definitely. Outspoken liberals. Minorities. The homeless. Any neighbors the informers dislike. Any female who shuns a (hetero) male informer's advances. Most participants in liberal forums such as alternet.

Are we having fun yet?

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. I FOUND ONE!!
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Posted by: Crazy H on Jul 9, 2008 11:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.

Oh, gawd, somebody please help! I saw someone engaging in suspicious activity! He's a known terrorist and murderer! Please send help right away!

The address is 1600 Pennsylvania Avenue...

.

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And Bush learned this from Hitler I'm sure.
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Posted by: reelectnoone on Jul 9, 2008 11:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This smacks of the enlistment of non-jews in Pre-War Germany who were called upon to report back to Gestapo about whatever any jews were doing.

America is in grave danger because of Bush, not because of terrorism threats. He will be gone soon, and most of Congress needs to follow him out the door.

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» Has to be true... Posted by: photon's feather

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the best way to combat information aquisition systems...
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Posted by: lexicon on Jul 9, 2008 11:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is with information.


So, what's the situation here? well...as a society, we (ostensibly) want to deter "terrorism".

That would be a good thing.

But, always there's a fly in the ointment. Flies like ointment, it would seem.

The "fly" I'm referring to, is of course, the DEFINITION of "terrorism".

When "terrorism" is "hateful, malicious acts of a fringe fundamentalist cabal, calculated to cause fear in the general populace" then, well, we're ALL FOR stopping terrorism. Particularly, "state-sponsored" terrorism, no matter what "state" is doing the "sponsoring".

We hope, in a democracy, that instead of choosing "terror", those fundamentalist factions would instead choose to integrate into the "process of democracy", and allow their ideas to flourish or perish, as the 'will of democracy' permits.

However, this "ideal" assumes that there is no such thing as "disenfranchisement".

There's the rub, eh?

A "democracy" that practices disenfranchisement, is no democracy at all, is it? and those that are disenfranchised, find that the only way to exercise their political will, is to go "outside" the system.

By definition, "outside the system".

SO...........


when "terrorism" comes to be defined as "actions by those who are OUTSIDE THE SYSTEM, attempting to effect political change on the system"...


THen Houston, we have a problem (you listening, Baker?)

ANYWAY...so we have this "problem" that the definition of terrorism is "mis-calibrated". Then INFORMATION must be the weapon to prevent the "system" from using information to further disenfranchise...

...information overload.


When EVERYONE is a criminal, then NOBODY is a criminal.

What has to happen, is that bank CEOs and Republican Town selectmen, and all the rich guys in town, and all the guys who drive hummers, have to end up on those lists.

...the lists then become useless.

But what about the terrorists? don't we WANT to stop them?

YES! a thousand times YES! but...


...we DON'T want to stop political opposition.


And when you get right down to it...political opposition is ALL ABOUT "nobody's going to stop ME from making TOO MUCH MONEY on this."


What I want to know is, when did the "players" decide that the GAME wasn't worth playing? Now, instead of playing the game and WINNING, they cheat the game.


Where's the damn fun in that?


lexicon

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Suspicious photos
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Jul 9, 2008 11:48 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an avid photography buff, I have done crazy stuff like lie on my belly to get a close up of an insect. Go up on roof tops to get a high angle. Stand there for an hour, waiting patiently for the bird to land on the fence post.

If anyone observed me doing these things, they would never figure me out. They'd think I was up to something sinister. Truth is, I LIKE close ups of insects. OK, that makes me weird.

Does it make me subversive?

I can see me being questioned in the gulag now: "What are ya in for?"
"I used my macro lens on a slug."
"Kill her now."

VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: phatkhat
» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: Dboy
» RE: Suspicious photos Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Pack Wolves Posted by: Cathyc

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Nazi Germany???
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Posted by: carbon-based on Jul 9, 2008 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd never thought I'd make that statement but it does ring familar tones of that era.

That said, isnt that the job of police officers, firefighters, paramedics, (maybe even utility workers)to keep an eye open for unusual activity.

I just read where airlines and homeland security are considering shock wrist bands for each passenger to keep them under control in necessary.

Scary times for sure! - The terrorists are winning.

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» RE: Nazi Germany??? Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Nazi Germany??? Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Nazi Germany??? Posted by: ecl1958

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Research E. German Stasi
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Posted by: mark24 on Jul 9, 2008 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sounds very similar to the system used by the East German Stasi. After the fall of the E.German fascist regime, researchers estimated that 1 in 7 East Germans were cooperating with the Stasi by spying and reporting on their neighbors and family.

People need to read Orwell again.

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Let's Not Forget China's Cultural Revoution
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Posted by: Rosasharn on Jul 9, 2008 3:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During Mao's reign (of terror), anyone suspicious of the SLIGHTEST interest in anything outside the official government guidelines for living would be brought before tribunals held by their very own neighbors. Hey, and it got so bad that even one's OWN children were willing to turn in their parents for such vagaries as READING/POSSESSING Western literature or playing MUSIC. It took the better half of the twentieth century to overcome these attitudes, once they were in place. Americans should try reading a bit of world history once in a while, to find out what happens when citizens turn on each other. We should all be very scared of our own selves and how far we are willing to let fear dominate our lives.

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Gov. "CON tractors", hm? Anything for a buck.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: common intelligence on Jul 9, 2008 3:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Children, spying on parents? Tree sitters being endangered and extracted by imported mexican tree arborists, contractors, hm. Anything for a buck.

Immigrants and illegals don't care what they do for money because it's better than doing without. They don't even know the consequences of their doings and don't care as long as what ever they are asked to do by the government assures their anonymous security.

Americans too, migrate across the nation escaping ill fates from other states and situations. They infiltrate "other" communities with a humble presents and anonymity of their own. But who are they?

Locals should always be bold and ask "where do you come from and what are you doing", to strangers. Even the meter readers, cable guy and neigborhood door knockers selling unsolicited Angus steaks , or Rupert Murdocks' Kirbey Vaccuum cleaners.

Let no stranger go without question. It could be your own government check'n You out !!

But remember Jack. "I'm checkin' You out."
I take names and numbers and photos. Leave me a cell phone message, I'll record that too!

I thank the supreme court now for letting it be known
Americans are Packin' Heat!

SO watch your spying or you may be made to answer for treaspassing.

"Don't Tread on ME".

Better think again if your little secret plan is worth you own safety and security. ( Then on the other hand if you don't care enough why should "We The People"?

One thing for sure the governement we all refer to is a serpent without ahead. It is unaccountable. And there is no one that really cares for your safety or security.

We are all individually expendable, a calculated risk that can be eliminated without a second thought. Because ther is NO ONE to actually think and NO ONE that cares.
You are all just statistical news items that will be known for a moment and forgotten the next.

SPY on GWB. But keep looking over your shoulder, cause we're spying one you.

"Every breath you take
Every move you make
Every bond you break
Every step you take
I'll be watching you

Every single day
Every word you say
Every game you play
I'll be watching you

Every move you make
Every vow you break
Every smile you fake
Every claim you stake
I'll be watching you".

STING

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Does Anyone Remember
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Posted by: desidid on Jul 9, 2008 4:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
a couple of years ago AlterNet ran a story about the secret prisons that run across this country? These prisons are manned already, they are just waiting for some occupants. Enter my dumbass Senator Lindsey Graham, he suggested to Alberto Gonzalez that "we should be looking for 5th columnists" this is an old term for "anyone not with us, is against us." I can't believe these hillbillies down here kept him in office, but the choice was a real redneck or a jerk-off.

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» RE: Does Anyone Remember Posted by: cherylholmes

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bisexual
[Report this comment]
Posted by: john110 on Jul 9, 2008 9:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
yes ,i don't think ,but ,i aslo agreen!@!!we can cheek it ◆BIGBISEXUAL.C O M◆!!

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I thought the cold war was dead and gone
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Posted by: YogiBear on Jul 9, 2008 9:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now it turns out we've just internalized it. I have seen the enemy and he is us!

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A few points
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Posted by: willymack on Jul 9, 2008 9:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OK, let's see. The bushies are forging ahead full speed with their destructive "policies" and actions, unhindered by our phony congress, unreported by our controlled "press", and largely unknown to our brain dead "citizens" who've abrogated all sembelence of their responsibilities, if they even knew what they were in the first place. The latest gem from the Mob is a spy network composed of the same lackwits who likely voted for dumbya TWICE. It's almost as if they knew that the 2008 "election" will be another irrevelant sham, and it'll be business as usual as our once free nation descends into a tinpot dictatorship, with a "Boss" and a menagrie of suckups, thugs, and spys looking for those who still choose to think and act on their own. This, too shall pass but when, and at what cost? What a dreadful waste.

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Their are more of us than there are of them.
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Posted by: greenthumb on Jul 9, 2008 9:37 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We stand a better chance by hanging together and being as smart as a foxes.

The American Indian tribes might have been able to take back this country at one time if they could have worked together. They often fought with one another and discovered too late that it was in their vested interest to work together.

We can learn from this.Of course , trolls will try to sabotage our efforts.You have to wonder what kind of people would resort to this behavior against their own fellow citizens.This is war people, and we have to learn how to fight this.

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America - We Can Now Be Called a Fascist State
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Posted by: tommy57 on Jul 9, 2008 10:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under this President, over 230 years of democracy has been reduced to a fascist state. However, these tactics are also employed in places like Cuba and China. So I guess we are really a Fascist - Communist state. The Bush family should be hunted down and all of the tried for treason. As far as members of his cabinet, they should be executed on the spot to save the country from the embarrassment of the hundreds of trials. Now that is Fascism and communism combined!

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Welcome to the NWO
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Posted by: sicntired on Jul 10, 2008 12:46 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This sounds a lot like the Hitler youth,Khymer Rouge,Communist revolution and Stalinist Russia.Children informing on their parents,people turning others in for a pat on the back.Anyone with an education being imprisoned for re education.The war on drugs and terrorism both are being used to scare people into giving up their freedom for the greater good.Soon we will all have the right to do exactly what we're told and nothing else.Who that is good for is a mystery to me.Turning people against one another has been used by every petty dictator since time began.

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?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sicntired on Jul 10, 2008 1:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Who would have thought about suspension of Habeus Corpus or Guantanimo or extraordinary rendition or water boarding?Need I continue?Nothing surprises me anymore.This country and the whole western world have lost their minds.Nobody cares anymore.

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people do care
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Posted by: jmk on Jul 10, 2008 5:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there are quite a number of people who care. I believe it is important to believe in the goodness of humanity, but to act well in the moment in a very grounded way. Be informed and do what you can. When the moments come when you can make a difference, you will know. By all means, keep paying attention and don't give up the vision.
The immediate answers are not in national politics, it's too slow, and they are too removed. Not that we should ignore it...but I am not holding my breath waiting for the miracle. The immediate answers lie in what strength we have in ourselves, our families, communities and then work on out. These seem to me to be more solid elements of change.I don't mean to sound simplistic, but folks, we have to learn to make connections in our communities, to network, in order to organize and know whose got your back and who you can count on. The fear factor wants us to believe we are alone and can't trust anybody. The first thing we have to do is act against the fear. A sense of humor helps.
The other thing we have to do is stop legislating our lives away. We are capable of making decisions in the moment, given the situation. ie: traffic surveillance. Hell, we don't even need traffic lights. We need to look at each other and communicate, as in a 4 way stop. There is more creativity and freedom in that situation, where our brains are engaged in communication, than there is in blind obedience. I am not making this a case about traffic regulation, however, I am saying that we need to be sure we are not asking "the law" to control us because we fear the few that refuse to act in concert with the rest of the community. If we can show respect for our children and stop isolating in our communities, eventually we have respectful citizens, and peace can be felt by a broader continuum.

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A "GOOD GERMAN" IS AN ACCOMPLICE TO MASS MURDER
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Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on Jul 10, 2008 9:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Every "Good German" in the Senate and House are, by association, support, and protection of Bush and Cheney, et al, from impeachment and prosecution for their crimes, themselves, MASS MURDERERS, TORTURERS and TRAITORS. That includes Pelosi, Hoyer, Immanuel, and unfortunately John Conyers (who wrote the book on Bush and Republican CRIMES, but who has turned into the worst sort of coward), and every Republican or Democrat (including CLINTON) who shamelessly continues to defend their own complicity by protecting and excusing the crimes of the BUSH MAFIA.

DEMOCRACY IS LOST. FASCISM IS ALIVE AND WELL IN AMERICA!

WE CAN ONLY HOPE THAT THE AMERICAN PEOPLE -- WHO HAVE REFUSED, UP TO THIS POINT, TO ADMIT THEY, TOO, GAVE APPROVAL TO THE MASS MURDER, OCCUPATION, TORTURE, LOOTING AND ILLEGAL SPYING -- WILL WAKE UP WHEN THEY, TOO, FIND THEMSELVES ARRESTED OR SURROUNDED BY RAZOR WIRE BY THE U.S. NAZI "THOUGHT POLICE" AS THE OPPOSITION OFTEN IS WHILE THEY PROTEST. THEY WILL BE NOT ONLY OUTRAGED, BUT DEEPLY ASHAMED...AS HAVE THE GERMAN PEOPLE FOR MANY, MANY YEARS.

BLOOD IS DRIPPING FROM OUR WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS... IT'S TIME TO WASH IT CLEAN. A GOOD PLACE TO START IS BY WASHING THE VIOLENCE AND INDIFFERENCE FROM THE HEARTS AND MINDS OF AMERICANS...THOSE POOR, IGNORANT "GOOD GERMANS."

HEIL BUSH! HEIL CHENEY!

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I'M VOTING FOR NADER...
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Posted by: AlwaysAskWhy on Jul 10, 2008 9:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama voted for telecom immunity, right? He praises and vows to defend the Zionist genocide of Palestinians. Congress gives Bush and future presidents SWEEPING SURVEILLANCE POWERS.

I'M VOTING FOR NADER...THE ONLY HONEST CANDIDATE LEFT.

DONATE HERE: http://www.votenader.org/

Watch here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lOY8p40QfqA

AND ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS...ASK WHY!

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maple story mesos
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cheap-msmesos on Jul 12, 2008 7:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]

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THERE ARE KANGAROO COURTS IN THIS LAND WHERE YOU WILL ARRESTED
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Raymond Emerson on Jul 12, 2008 10:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and after the arrest friends of the officer and the court will called. They will all agree on your offense and who will witness. They then bring you before a friendly judge and a friendly prosecutor presents the fixed witnesses.

If you can afford an attorney the judge will not allow your attorney to present a case to a jury by selecting what evidence can be presented. You have no chance of winning. The charge, of course, is a felony. You have no choice but to plea bargain. You end up as a convicted felon and are completely innocent. Your only crime was that you had a powerful enemy.

This a prime technique of the KKK. The arresting officer, the witnesses, the prosecutor, and the judge will all be KKK. The KKK has seen 80% growth since 2000 according to the Southern Poverty Law Center. This happens to white people in the south who befriend blacks. You are under no obligation to believe a word of this. Set out and do your own checking.

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in your guts you know he is nuts
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Posted by: whealeydj on Jul 13, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
applies to Reagan and Bush even more than Goldwater. I date the turn toward authoritarianism to Reagan election of 1980. I also prefer draw parallels between W Republicans and Soviet Union rather than Nazi. They have heard the Nazi parallels so much and it makes them madder to be called Stalinists; calling W Jeb's Big Brother gets the point across imo.

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Here we Go!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: mike_burns on Jul 13, 2008 8:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ultra right wing likes doing away with freedom and rights. After they have done their fine work, I would like to see a leftist take power. I would like to see Walt Street and Madison Avenue people put into re-education camps. I would like them to listen to translations of Castro, Linens essays on Marx, Mao's little red book. It would be a great day. We can all wear the same kinds of cloths. Everyone would have the latest fashion, which never changes. No one would do with out. Everyone with a home and free medical care. No longer, would we have religion crammed at us.
We don't have to be like the Chinese or Russians. We can have a unique Full Blooded American Socialist State. Then we could consider real empire.
Someone Report Me!

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