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Rights and Liberties

Democrats Have Legalized Bush's Crimes

By Robert Parry, Consortium News. Posted June 21, 2008.


The Democratic leadership cleared the way for the president and his collaborators to evade punishment for defying the law.
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Editor's note: You can read more about Obama backing a FISA "compromise" here.

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi claims that a key positive feature of the new wiretap "compromise" is that the bill reaffirms that the President must follow the law, even though the same bill virtually assures that no one will be held accountable for George W. Bush's violation of the earlier spying law. Share this article

In other words, in the guise of rejecting Bush's theories of an all-powerful presidency that is above the law, the Democratic leadership cleared the way for the President and his collaborators to evade punishment for defying the law.

So, why should anyone assume that the new legislative edict demanding that the President obey the law will get any more respect than the old one, which established the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978 as the "exclusive" means for authorizing electronic spying?

It wasn't that Bush and his team didn't understand the old law's language; they simply believed they could violate the law without consequence, under the radical theory that at a time of war -- even one as vaguely defined as the "war on terror" -- the President's powers trump all laws as well as the constitutional rights of citizens.

Essentially, Bush was betting that even if his warrantless wiretap program was disclosed -- as it was in December 2005 -- that he could trust his Republican congressional allies to protect him and could count on most Democrats not to have the guts to challenge him.

His bet proved to be a smart one. After the New York Times revealed the warrantless wiretaps two and a half years ago, Congress took no steps to hold Bush accountable. Before the 2006 elections, Pelosi declared that Bush's impeachment was "off the table."

Then, on the eve of the August 2007 recess, the Democratic-controlled Congress was stampeded into passing the "Protect America Act," which effectively legalized what Bush had already done and expanded his spying powers even more.

After that law was passed, U.S. news reports mostly parroted the White House claim that it "modernized" FISA and "narrowly" targeted overseas terror suspects who might call or e-mail their contacts in the United States.

However, it soon became clear that the law applied not just to terror suspects abroad who might communicate with Americans, but to anyone who is "reasonably believed to be outside the United States" and who might possess "foreign intelligence information," defined as anything that could be useful to U.S. foreign policy.

That meant that almost any American engaged in international commerce or dealing with foreign issues -- say, a businessman in touch with a foreign subsidiary or a U.S. reporter sending an overseas story back to his newspaper -- was vulnerable to warrantless intercepts approved on the say-so of two Bush subordinates, the Attorney General and the Director of National Intelligence.

Beyond the breathtaking scope of this new authority, the Bush administration also snuck in a clause that granted forward-looking immunity from lawsuits to communications service providers that assisted the spying.

That removed one of the few safeguards against Bush's warrantless wiretaps: the concern among service providers that they might be sued by customers for handing over constitutionally protected information without a warrant.

In short, the "Protect America Act" made warrantless surveillance legally cost free for a collaborating service provider, tilting the scales even further in favor of the government's spying powers.

Catching on

A week after the "Protect America Act" was passed, the New York Times and the Washington Post published front-page stories explaining how the Bush administration had ambushed the Democrats.

Pressed up against the start of the August recess and the prospect of Republican taunts that Democrats were "soft on terror," the Democratic leaders abandoned earlier compromise proposals and accepted the more expansive law. Their one point of resistance was putting a February 2008 sunset provision into the law.

Still, the Democratic cave-in in August 2007 provoked an uproar among rank-and-file Democrats. Pelosi's office reported receiving more than 200,000 angry e-mails.

Stung by the reaction, House Democratic leaders balked at White House pressure to make even more concessions, including retroactive immunity for telecommunication companies that had collaborated with Bush's warrantless wiretaps in the years after the 9/11 attacks.

In February 2008, to the surprise of many observers, the Democratic leadership allowed the "Protect America Act" to lapse. Though Republicans attacked the Democrats as expected, the accusations seemed to have little political resonance.

Nevertheless, the Democratic leadership -- behind Sen. Jay Rockefeller, D-West Virginia, and Rep. Steny Hoyer, D-Maryland -- continued working on a compromise.

While the new version drops some of the more intrusive features of the "Protect America Act," such as allowing warrantless wiretaps of Americans outside the United States, the bill adds retroactive telecom immunity (only requiring the companies show they got a written order from the President).

The bill also would grant the administration emergency power to wiretap a target for up to one week before getting a warrant from the secret FISA court. But the bill bars the government from targeting a foreigner as a "back-door" way to spy on an American without a court warrant.

'Capitulation'

Sen. Russell Feingold, D-Wisconsin, a strong constitutionalist, termed the new bill "not a compromise; it is a capitulation."

One of the bill's illusions would seem to be that the precedent of a President ignoring the FISA law and escaping any accountability can somehow be negated by restating what the original, violated law had declared.

In her June 20 floor statement, Pelosi said in her view this was a crucial feature of the bill, the statement that the President cannot ignore the FISA law again. However, Pelosi's position sounded like the words of an indulgent parent of a spoiled child: "This time I really mean it!"

The more powerful message from the latest Democratic compromise is that a President -- at least a Republican one -- can break the wiretap law under the cover of national security and expect to ride out the consequences.

Rather than reaffirming the rule of law and the Constitution's checks and balances, as Pelosi claimed, the new FISA "compromise" may have done the opposite, signaling that the President is above the law.

After Pelosi's speech, the House passed the bill by a 293-129 margin with 105 Democrats -- including most of the leadership -- voting in favor and 128 Democrats against. The bill then went to the Senate, which was expected to approve it.

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See more stories tagged with: democrats, house, nancy pelosi, fisa

Robert Parry's new book is Secrecy & Privilege: Rise of the Bush Dynasty from Watergate to Iraq."

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Ralph Nader's Greatest Failure ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Jun 21, 2008 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of endorsing or establishing a third party Nader has chosen to jump in and out of politics to the detriment of Liberals and Progressives. His last run split the Green Party. He should have known by 2004 the damage he was doing to the prospects of a viable 3rd party.

So what do we have now but two different branches of the corporate party and little chance of true reform. Nader has ensured the success of the likes of Pelosi, Hoyer and Reid to the leadership of the left wing of the corporate party and more years of business as usual.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Boy did you miss my point! Posted by: greenPuker
» good guys v. bad guys Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» Everything! Posted by: nochicagoboys
Feckless losers
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Jun 21, 2008 1:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This latest capitulation cannot stand and it is high time that the Democrats bear accomplice liability. Pelosi is the worst embarrassment to the office of Speaker in its history and that takes in alot of scumbags. But, her 2nd in command and good old boy Stenny Hoyer-D-MD praised all of this bullshit with:the new bill "balances the needs of our intelligence community with Americans' civil liberties, and provides critical new oversight and accountability requirements." What? Its time to adopt the ways of the west, i.e. get a rope and find the nearest tree. As bad as Bush and his cadre are, I'm not so sure the Democrats' leadership in the House isn't worse! Pelosi, Hoyer, Conyers are unfit and should be defeated in November, they are nothing more than feckless losers and this nation suffers badly as a result.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Feckless losers Posted by: sawdust
» RE: Feckless losers Posted by: hermjo
» RE: Feckless losers Posted by: indepentent
» Here Is A List Of The Traitors! Posted by: TarryFaster
» RE: Feckless losers Posted by: jporter
» RE: Feckless losers Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Feckless losers Posted by: Doubtom
Obama defends new FISA wiretap bill as compromise
Posted by: Mystery Solver on Jun 21, 2008 1:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In a statement about a controversial bill, Senator Barack Obama defends intelligence gathering that would expand the wiretapping powers of President Bush's administration."

"Obama said the legislation is a 'compromise' from last year's Protect America Act and reduces rather than increases the Bush administration's power to spy on Americans."

http://rawstory.com/news/

WELL WELL WELL - YOUR MESSIAH IS LOOKING MORE AND MORE LIKE THE TYPICAL WASHINGTON INSIDER. WHERE'S THE "CHANGE"?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» If Gore were President! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: If Gore were President! Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: If Gore were President! Posted by: indepentent
» The Constitution, Bill of Rights Posted by: Persephone8
» We see, oh confused one.... Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Actually Obama Said Posted by: desidid
» Give Me Liberty or give Me Death - Posted by: Persephone8
» RE: Give Me Liberty or give Me Death - Posted by: left_libertarian
Momentous
Posted by: talkville on Jun 21, 2008 1:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only legalizing, but continuing to legitimate a 'modus operandi' that is reprehensible in any organized society. Despite valiant efforts by a minority of these "legislators", the up-shot of this Compromise (read: thorough Corruption) makes things plain. The US Government has no justification whatsoever, except brute police-power, to hold anyone else to any standards of law. There has been created a 'vacuum of legality' by means of the theories of such as Carl Schmitt and his 'exceptional circumstances' gambit. This can only mean we find ourselves in a period of Lawessness, until the very same agents -- real, institutional and corporate -- that unilaterally proclaimed such a 'State' decide sui-generis that such a period is over (and in the same theoretical framework, it's never REALLY over is it?)

Forget the Constitution or judicial casuistries: we are in an epoch of Raw Power. The corruption, it seems, is Dead Center and Bi-Partisan. This is Tyranny. The Democrats waited for the right moment, when the real issues confronting the people mount daily and attention and energy towards resistance is least likely to be found to pass this infamous Surrender.

When one of these so-called 'leaders' demands of others to follow the Law, others may ask: why? for it was an 'exceptional' circumstance. What will MAKE them follow the Law? The Police. Welcome to the New World Order.

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» RE: Momentous Posted by: riley
» RE: Momentous Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: Momentous Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Momentous Posted by: left_libertarian
"Off the table"
Posted by: tlees2 on Jun 21, 2008 3:48 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't Nancy Pelosi announce that the Democratic leadership was pulling impeachment "off the table" after the 2006 election, rather than before, as this article states?

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» RE: "Off the table" Posted by: billslm
» RE: "Off the table" Posted by: helenwheels
» RE: "Off the table" Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: "Off the table" Posted by: Lauren
NO Coattail Ride For Dems In Nov
Posted by: Purple Girl on Jun 21, 2008 4:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh the Dem Party is coming together- against Not only the Bushie Repugs but the Operatives in Blue Too.
I am voting for Obama- Not my first choice, but the only one worth supporting & working to get in Office.
But I will be voting Against ALL others from my State MI- So third Party Candidates throw your hat in the ring. I'd like to hand Pres Obama a new clean Congres to work with.
Pelosi Reid Hoyer.... All should face charges of High Crimes along with this Administration, they are not just enablers- they are Co Conspirators and Accomplices.
My hope is that Sen Obama offers the VP to Sen Hagel (R), He has a Track record which would compliment Sen Obama's and would aid US i Bring out the patriotic vote- Proving our country is more interested in regaining Our control over Gov't and not Party Politics- Patriots Are Color Blind.

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Democrats Are Shameless Sellouts
Posted by: billslm on Jun 21, 2008 5:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats who were sent to congress with a clear mandate have failed this country by completely ignoring their duty. It is too kind to say that they lack courage. That assumes they might have had the will, in the first place, to do the right thing. The truth is that they clearly misrepresented themselves when the American people were desperately seeking someone to represent their interests against the crimes of the Bush Administration. Now we can see that the 2006 elected Dems had no intention of doing the right thing. They might as well have called themselves neo-cons.

I called my congress woman in the House this morning to urge her to vote no on the warrantless wiretapping issue. I was assured she already had done so--- even though the bill passed easily. She, at least, is one who maintained the faith. But she is leaving congress. The bad apples will not allow the good ones to remain honorable.

So the good are being driven out by the bad. And that is the real problem. Those who have sold out have finally driven out the Democrats who really are trying to accomplish something.

Recall Pelosi! Hoyer! Reid! They stand against real Americans.

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Now, if we could just compromise on Marijuana!
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Jun 21, 2008 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Imagine all persons convicted by marijuana laws can be freed when the new compromise forgives them for their past actions, because they had to have it, or they had to make some money to pay for the babies shoes, or they just had to plant a tiny seed out of human nature, and nobody meant to harm any one. In fact many of these men and women faithfully served in the armed forces, and created less harm by their actions than the judges have acknowledged.

Imagine a compromise on marijuana laws, that allowed anyone to possess and grow just a little bit from a little seed for a little compassion and a little kindness to themselves.

Imagine the compromise went something like this: If you kill, maim or wound another human being in the act of growing, buying, or importing marijuana, you shall be sentenced to jail in line with laws dictating such bad behavior, but if you have harmed no person, animal, or other being in your actions, then you shall be free to remain free.

Imagine, a marijuana compromise.

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» Hey, toker...you are OFFPOINT! Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: Hey, toker...you are OFFPOINT! NOT Posted by: left_libertarian
» Nightgauntlet... Posted by: greenPuker
The First Item For The New Congress; Vote Pelosi Out!
Posted by: rgoalierob on Jun 21, 2008 6:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Disappointing" doesn't even begin to describe my feelings about her leadership skills.

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Barack - IT's time to show Leadership and make the hard decisions
Posted by: Phred42 on Jun 21, 2008 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama must publicly call for the resignations of Pelosi and Reid and condem Hoyer & Rockefeller.
Then must follow through on their removal.

Pelosi and Reid are either:
- Involved in the illegal and corrupt activity
- are being Blackmailed
- or are Cowards.

Any way you slice it - they are not capable of completing their Sworn duties

They MUST be removed Immediately.

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» Dream on, Sunshine Posted by: leafsong1
» Brass ba__s for sure Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Brass ba__s for sure Posted by: desidid
It's all over
Posted by: covalentbonded on Jun 21, 2008 6:41 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the end my friends. The Congress has effectively ruled that we are all suspects.

Strike/Boycott 08

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» RE: or just expendable Posted by: Lauren
» Strike! 09/11/ 08! Posted by: rancespergl
Parents
Posted by: JSquercia on Jun 21, 2008 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article is brilliant in pointing out ABSURDITY that the law NOW requires the President to do what he previously REFUSED to do and RIGHTLY compares it to the parent of a spoiled child repeatadly saying "THIS time I REALLY mean it "
It is Sad to think that we don't have ENOUGH Senators who would DEFEND the Constitution that we are Unable to threaten a fillibuster, a tactic that the Republicans have used constantly this session

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» RE: Parents Posted by: Lauren
In the Bill itself
Posted by: Last Chance on Jun 21, 2008 7:16 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is there any clear distinction between foreign and domestic spying? I sincerely want the feds to spy on potential terrorists operating in the USA and elsewhere, which the intelligence agencies are obviously well able to do, since the 9/11 hijackers were detected well before the event. The problem appears to be what they do, or don't do, with the information they collect. Is there any real evidence they are now actually engaged in spying on law abiding but dissident U.S. citizens? It seems to me that is something we all need to know.

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» RE: In the Bill itself Posted by: Lauren
Ya say ya want a revolution, well you know....
Posted by: stonesoupstation on Jun 21, 2008 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the old has got to go.....

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Reformation
Posted by: The Populist on Jun 21, 2008 7:25 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama had made a believer out of me. I was sold

on his ability to follow through on his promises.

Now I feel used, played, stood up, cynical (more

than usual), and ambivalent.

Nader where are you!!!

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» RE: eformation Posted by: liberalibrarian
Damn
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jun 21, 2008 7:28 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I just ripped down my Barack Obama sign in my window.
(That was before I read that he MAY try to strip the immunity provision in the Senate. But since that basically has zero chance of succeeding, and he should know that, then I am not putting the sign back up.)

(THAT will show him....)

Jesus Bleeping Christ! Why are Democrats the biggest pussies on the planet!? And what the Republicans say about them IS true. They ARE traitors! (But the Republicans are traitors to even more of an extent. And that is saying a LOT.)

WE are literally doomed.

You know, what makes it even worse is that our children are brainwashed in school to believe that America is "free", even to believe that America is the freest of all nations. BIGGEST LOAD OF BS EVER!

What do we tell our kids now, after they get home from a school day of learning about our Founding Fathers and about pledging allegiance to the American flag and all that tripe?

I am so sick of all this crap.

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Fascist Mom Pelosi Condemns Iraqi, Afghani, Somali children to death
Posted by: jayjanson on Jun 21, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mom Pelosi used her three children as confirming her humanity when she first became Speaker.
The children of Afghanis, Somalis and Iraqis are dying in daily U.S. air stikes now authorized and abetted by a fascist mother.

These beautiful children are the children of our Iraqi, Afghani and Somali brothers and sisters and their deaths distort the appearance of sister Pelosi's three children and their social education

painfully,
jay janson

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buckeye
Posted by: diliff on Jun 21, 2008 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama defends Habeus Corpus for terrorists because the laws of Constitution are able to provide the process to convict terrorists. On the other hand, Obama takes away the rights of Americans to freedom of privacy and unlawful search and seizure because the Constitution isn't good enough to protect us. I have to think: Whose side is he on? He wants it both ways. He is allegedly an expert on the Constitution, however, he is a typical politician following the money and the insiders in Washington. The government and Obama are selling our rights to the highest bidder. Democrats and Republicans are different sides to the same coin. The terrorists are accomplishing what they set out to do and that is to to have our freedom taken from us. If the democrats criticize the republicans for runnning a fear base campaign, then why are democrats buying into this fear by taking away our freedoms?

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» RE: Nope buckeye. Not right! Posted by: greenPuker
» RE: buckeye Posted by: leafsong1
Oh, Barack, you should remember this
Posted by: QQOblivion on Jun 21, 2008 8:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It should be noted that Barack was likely one of the people spied on by Big Telecom and the Bush Admn. He may have forgotten that.
But in any case, we'll NEVER find out the true extent of the spying now, will we?

America is NOT free.

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And we misguided fools
Posted by: donl51 on Jun 21, 2008 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thought things would be different when we got together and put more dems in the white house!!what a laugh,this is how it starts,,actually it started awhile back,you want to enjoy this country again,? pack your bags gather up your family and move the hell out! watch it from someplace else,it'll turn out to circle the drain and bedone with,or be a worse police state than its becoming or be the new world empire not unlike Napoleon,Ghengis or Hitler! doesn't much matter whose in that white house chair if he doesn't comply they can always do a JFK on him!! We're going to be a religious right dictatorship,think I'm full of shit,go down to where the poor and minorities live,system could care less if those people live or die.then they preach god! and our soldiers? well they'll blindly follow their leader like any good soldier! and the cops???''criminals on patrol'' someone coined that one awhile back,wish I had a stencil and black spray paint ,but those 3rd grade graduates have a tendency to shoot first ask questions later!,when I hear about a cop fallen on duty,I've no sympathy,when they start caring about the people again I'll start caring about them!..we're going back to become a politically right ''racist and bigoted country again,ain't that great!!I did my duty for this country,now it can go fuck itself!....

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» RE: And we misguided fools Posted by: Lauren
» misguided fool Posted by: leafsong1
I guess no one else knows what they got for the trade.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jun 21, 2008 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course it was a tradeoff. It always is in Congress. So we see the news story about one bill but it is not related to the passage, say, of the extension of unemployment benefits and veteran's benefits?

No, I do not have any insider knowledge of what goes on behind closed doors. All I know is that is what Congressional leadership does.

And I also know that our simple-minded press corps is too lazy to ever do the work it would take to find out. "Don't believe anything you read," and only half of what you hear.

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informationguru
Posted by: oldurn on Jun 21, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that Obama felt that this compromise will at least halt the warrantless surveillance of citizens and allow more congressional oversight of the process. Just read what he said.

Obama on the FISA 'Compromise' ...

"Given the grave threats that we face, our national security agencies must have the capability to gather intelligence and track down terrorists before they strike, while respecting the rule of law and the privacy and civil liberties of the American people. There is also little doubt that the Bush Administration, with the cooperation of major telecommunications companies, has abused that authority and undermined the Constitution by intercepting the communications of innocent Americans without their knowledge or the required court orders.

"That is why last year I opposed the so-called Protect America Act, which expanded the surveillance powers of the government without sufficient independent oversight to protect the privacy and civil liberties of innocent Americans. I have also opposed the granting of retroactive immunity to those who were allegedly complicit in acts of illegal spying in the past.

"After months of negotiation, the House today passed a compromise that, while far from perfect, is a marked improvement over last year's Protect America Act.

"Under this compromise legislation, an important tool in the fight against terrorism will continue, but the President's illegal program of warrantless surveillance will be over. It restores FISA and existing criminal wiretap statutes as the exclusive means to conduct surveillance - making it clear that the President cannot circumvent the law and disregard the civil liberties of the American people. It also firmly re-establishes basic judicial oversight over all domestic surveillance in the future. It does, however, grant retroactive immunity, and I will work in the Senate to remove this provision so that we can seek full accountability for past offenses. But this compromise guarantees a thorough review by the Inspectors General of our national security agencies to determine what took place in the past, and ensures that there will be accountability going forward. By demanding oversight and accountability, a grassroots movement of Americans has helped yield a bill that is far better than the Protect America Act.

"It is not all that I would want. But given the legitimate threats we face, providing effective intelligence collection tools with appropriate safeguards is too important to delay. So I support the compromise, but do so with a firm pledge that as President, I will carefully monitor the program, review the report by the Inspectors General, and work with the Congress to take any additional steps I deem necessary to protect the lives - and the liberty - of the American people."

From "Talking Points Memo"

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» Informationguru remix. Posted by: greenPuker
Who are the Demo's that voted FOR it?
Posted by: common intelligence on Jun 21, 2008 9:06 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These are the Idiots, ( with a capital "I".)

I can't believe in another sense, that these street people that are voted into office have much more than a 6th grade understanding of anything.
Hense Politicians. That's Poll Practicianiers.
They're like poker players that just play the odds in what it will take to keep their jobs.

They have no understanding of the impact and consequences of their decissions. Bush, just the other day, said he wanted to be remembered
as the president that , "when he looked in the mirror, saw a man of his convictions that would not compromise his principles." .

He has said before that he idolized Harry S. Truman for this very ideology.

This is the mind set of an unconscious compulsive, self centered sociopath.

How in hell is he still in office getting his way? This is beyond my comprehension?

It is purely evident the answer to the my question is the American people and those that represent the "will" of the people are unconscious too and are the most gutless people on earth.

The original blind bravery that drives young people to join the military to do something "right" has more merit than that of the politicians especially the likes of Pelosi. These are the two faces scum that undermine the very foundation of democracy, the The Constitution.

I mean, what the hell do the media and Bush Repuks mean that "they" want to establish Democracy around the world yet actually is destroying it here in our our country?

Can't people see it?

Perspectively, I know of "illegal" latinos, Mexicans, Guatamalians, Salvadorians, even Aussies, Euro's and Americans themselves changing their plans to stay in America. There by going back to their home countries because there is greater chance for a better life there than here, now.

"Bet you didn't know gas in Mexico is $2.00 a gallon".
And as I have been told by these people $5000 will get you thu 6 months of living comfortably and less stress than $50,000 here with no hope of owning your own home!

There are the same Home Depots and Target stores and Walmarts there as there is here. So what keeps Americans here? Attachment to failed infrastuctures, broken levies, broken dreams, repossesed homes? Industrial dependance on China and lack of educational opportunities.......Just what is it that Americans are doing by allowing ther own homeland being taken over by a fascist regime? Without a fight no less? Any country in the world , the people would not put up with the lies this country is living under.

It appears there are more reasons to put up barriers to keeping people from getting out of the United states than keeping foreigners from getting in.

I saw on a box of Safeway (generic brand) cereal the full back panel with "the American Presidents & Their Times". It displayed the names and a one line note on their accomplishments.
GWB was listed as saying (only) that he Established Homeland security".

A man around his mid thirties is portrayed in a news focus on network TV, interview about him and his wifes' lose of property , Twice, from flooding and levy breakage. He obviuously is shown with a T-shirt that says, "Proud to Be An American" .
NOW what the hell is that suppose to mean?

So where is our Homeland Security? Do you think they really mean Corporate securtiy?

(Sorry I get carried away)

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» Domestic Enemies Part 2 Posted by: common intelligence
Voting Libertarian
Posted by: ozonehole on Jun 21, 2008 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This bill was a litmus test for me. Every single Republican but one voted for the bill, while 45% of Democrats did. My hat is off to the 55% who opposed the bill - I have nothing but contempt for those who sold out.

If you want to know how your representative voted, you can see the results here:

http://www.govtrack.us/congress/vote.xpd?vote=h2008-437

I'm not a single-issue voter, but this bill was a litmus test for me. Any Democrat who voted for its passage is basically a Republican pretending to be a Democrat.

Obama has failed us. I had planned to vote for him this November, but now I just can't bring myself to do it. He said that he didn't approve of the telecom immunity, but in the end he voiced support for the bill. The Senate hasn't voted on the bill yet, but it's almost certain to pass with full telecom immunity. It will be interesting to see how Obama votes (if he votes - he doesn't spend much time in Washington these days).

Disgusted as I am with Obama, I can't support McCain either - he's worse by far.

So I think I'll vote Libertarian. It is not with much enthusiasm. Nobody needs to tell me about how the Libertarians have a lousy record on environmental protection, they lack a coherent energy policy, they love deregulation, etc - I know all that. They're basically Ron Paul Republicans, with all the good and bad that entails.

The Libertarians have a very good record (to the extent they have any record at all) on civil liberties, and this foul FISA legislation is definitely a civil liberties issue.

I'm suspicious of their candidate Bob Barr - a good Republican who suddenly decided two years ago that he'd become a Libertarian. But who else am I going to vote for - a write-in vote for Ralph Nader? Most states just toss write-in votes into the trash can, uncounted. The Green Party appears to be in chaos, and are unlikely to challenge Obama.

I'm not expecting the Libertarians to win, but a good showing (over 5%) would at least be a nice protest vote. Maybe it would get the Democrats' attention and make them try harder - I can always hope. If anyone's got a better suggestion than voting Libertarian, I'd love to hear it.

Let's face it - we're living in a police state now. The Rethugs brought us here, but the spineless Democrats just bent over and spread. Disgusting. I'll see how it goes this November, but in the end I might just vote with my feet - emigration never sounded so good.

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» I'm A Green Libertarian Posted by: left_libertarian
» McKinney/Barr Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Voting Libertarian Posted by: left_libertarian
» RE: Voting left-Libertarian? Why? Posted by: left_libertarian
» Screw voting, Start Shooting ! Posted by: common intelligence
» RE: Voting Libertarian Posted by: greenPuker
This is why they can't be trusted
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Jun 21, 2008 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They blew their first 100 days goals,if they ever had them, and now we see their true colors. If you think Obama will be any diffrent,you need to see a head shrinker!
This Gov't is not only the enemy of the People,it's the enemy of the world and it will be our children who pay the toll. Long after the real criminals get away. We must take control of our own gov't before we get nailed by another country we've screwed over. The whole mid-east situation is the way it is because we've been playing both ends against the middle for generations. We deal with Arabs because they use cash money for their deals,the Isrealis we give credit to. They were never supposed to have nukes,but they damn sure do and they are'nt afraid to use them.Most of the folks that are in Gov't use force of arms to insure Peace. There was never a Peace attained back of Force. Anytime you start killing for Peace you'll never get it because use of force only breeds contempt for the country using force. There will always be someone's relative who got killed that will want revenge,so there is never a true Peace from force of arms. Just a kind of uneasy waiting game. The Arab world may not have liked Hussain very much but they really detest killing eachother. It violates the Koran.
But over here we call ourselves 'christians'. If you look at our history since 1492 you'll rightly see the greatest genocide was done by 'christians'. The very thing we're supposed to not do.Too
many people have been slaughtered in the name of Christ. So much so we might as well call ourselves the Nation of the Anti-Christ. It's
these very fools that call themselves 'democrats' that are the next worst problem for America. They are loyal to their biggest monetary supporters,not the People.
Their supporters want war. It makes them money.
They don't care with whom as long as multi-million dollar cruise missles get used.
The remedy...STOP HAVING YOUR KIDS SIGN UP FOR THE DRAFT. Discourage military service of any kind,in the most strongest possible terms.
Stop believing the two party system really represents us. They do not and never have.
Boycott the election!!! Find out who's in the electoral college and block their driveways so they can't vote in another killing force president. Make election day the day millions of people go to DC and piss on the washington monument,that's the only vote they're good enough for. Save the lives of your friends and family by removing the gov't from power. We have the right to do it but do we have the will? I think we do,so do millions of others.
Jeffrey7 for Prez '08

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» Been there,Tried that...... Posted by: jeffrey7
Meet the new boss...
Posted by: wildbill on Jun 21, 2008 10:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...same as the old boss. I was planning to donate more money to Obama and various Democratic candidates this year, but I might as well just save it to spend on gasoline and food. In the past few days the congressional Dems have caved in to Bush on FISA and war funding, and Obama has used a slick, professional marketing campaign with carefully selected wording and graphics (check his website) to break his public financing promise. He has also pretty much echoed Pres. Bush regarding the need to deal with Iran, and now he defends Congress for its cowardly rollover. I don't know if I'll even waste the gas to drive a mile from my house to the polls in November. What difference would it make?

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Give money to the Cindy Sheehan for Congress campaign.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jun 21, 2008 10:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cindy of Congress

I just gave fifty dollars USD. And it feels great.

If she get enough money, she may be able to get Pelosi dismissed from Congress.

She is a little bit of a goof ball, but her heart is in the right place.

Remember she lost a son in the Iraq war, she knows what this war costs first hand. She is not a phony like Pelosi and Obama.

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» Why isn't she running Green? Posted by: antiapathy
Nancy Pelosi is a Criminal Speaker of the House..!
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Jun 21, 2008 11:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Simple as that...

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Obama's blog page - don't mention FISA
Posted by: ozonehole on Jun 21, 2008 11:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I went over to Obama's blog (http://my.barackobama.com/page/content/hqblog) to post my opinion about this FISA mess. There were a number of other comments by outraged Democrats, insisting that Obama should have denounced in no uncertain terms the FISA "compromise."

Guess what? Just checked back. My post is gone, along with all the other posts mentioning FISA. The Obama blog moderators have apparently been very busy.

I must give Alternet praise for allowing this discussion. There was also some good comments posted yesterday at Huffingtonpost. The official Democratic Party blogs don't want to hear it - just pretend the vote didn't happen. Ditto for the Republicans - they are even more guilty. Haven't heard a peep out of Fox News and AM hate radio either.

Compare that to just a few months ago when the last (unsuccessful) attempt was made to get this odious legislation passed - the MSM gave telecom immunity lots of airtime (mostly to Republicans). The neocons were fiercely denouncing the Democrats for "caving in to terrorists", while the Democrats were just as fiercely insisting that they couldn't compromise on the 4th amendment.

Now the issue has disappeared. Most people don't even know the vote happened. The Senate needs to vote on it again next week - anyone want to bet that it will be less publicized than National Cucumber Week?

Now let's discuss American flag lapel pins. And "hope and change."

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Telcoms need to take responsability
Posted by: reelectnoone on Jun 21, 2008 12:04 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There can be consequences for telcos. Cell users can switch to Credo Mobile for instance. www.credo.com. I am going to formulate a letter to AT&T and ask them to post in major news papers that they intend to refuse immunity and respect their customers privacy agreements and obey the law.

We will try to spread that idea as far and wide as possible to put telcom on notice that their paying customers want to know where they stand with regards to being law abiding citizens vs. criminals we can't trust with our communications.

I will be curios to see their response and will post here later. First I will write and post my letter to AT&T for all to read, pass on and hopefully mail to AT&T, Verison, Sprint and so on.

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False choices, Dem or Rep...
Posted by: Reader11722 on Jun 21, 2008 12:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is everyone so blind about this 'two' party system? Unfortunately it took segregationist Governor Wallace to reveal the truth that "there's not a dime's worth of difference between" Republicans and Democrats. The Democrats willingly went along with the War in Iraq, suspension of Habeas Corpus, detaining protesters, banning books like America Deceived (book) from Amazon, stealing private lands (Kelo decision), warrant-less wiretapping and refusing to investigate 9/11 properly. They are both guilty of treason.
Support Dr. Ron Paul and save this great nation.

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Evidence is piling up
Posted by: JayHaden on Jun 21, 2008 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dems take impeachment off the table, vote to fund the Iraq war, give unwarranted domestic spying their stamp of approval, and excoriate public funding of elections. Corporations now have so much power over both parties that there is little effort to hide their intent or even to apologize. Like the official toleration of public discussion of corruption in Kenya, our corruption is no longer subject to guilt or shame (let alone prosecution) because all avenues for corrective action have been choked off. Let the rabble babble. All that remains is to concoct or amplify an emergency that will justify codifying further the new fascist state. The FISA amendments are just the beginning. All of which begs the question: Exactly what kind of Constitutional expert was our good Senator?

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Nancy Pelosi was given a trust by her constituants which she shredded into file 13!
Posted by: Nightstallion on Jun 21, 2008 12:21 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Her original agreement was to stop the Bushite predation of the United States. She took the position of speaker to see that Democratic view points were put across the tables. This has not happened.

Instead she has consecutively and blatantly supported bush his war and the Corporatocracy which will reap the profits from any war scenarios. This is why I started calling this Party THE DEMONRATS to begin with! These people are opportunistic, serve themselves and war profiteering, and will invade your privacy looking for those AMERICANS who dislike or disagree with them.

Now is not the time to be in denial, now is the time to oust all these encysted worms. They have betrayed the people who voted for them at every turn. Now they have set up a Geheime Staats Polizei (Secret State Police) in the form of Homeland Security, Eschelon (wire tapping service) and the Jackbooted Blackwater as the Strike force/S.W.A.T strong arm goons.

When is it ok to hate? I cannot love these guys. I am opposed to bullies and have always hated them. How did I get here from Nancy Pelosi? She has voted to invite this kind of stinking crap to stay around awhile till it has to be used on us to shut up our bitching. To many of us that’s cool because we don’t want to think about it, we want to have our every want and need attended till death us part the earth.

Some of us, Republicans included will even shout Heil and Viva as the Gestapo is loading up our children in buses or dump trucks headed for the Ovens. This must be what we want. Otherwise we would be chasing politicians around with hot tar, ropes, goose down pillows and #2 railroad rails till we could get them to stop this shit.

Did I hear someone say what shit? I mean George Bush and his goddamned War on humanity’s rights to life without interference from some dickhead politician. That’s who Nancy Pelosi, McCain, Obama, Cheney, Wolfowitz, Rove, Chertoff and all the other warmongers will support till the cows come home. The only good politician is a Tarred and Feathered Politician!

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Surprised?
Posted by: jvaljon1 on Jun 21, 2008 12:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nancy Pelosi says that all FUTURE Presidents 'can not evade consequences for warrantless wiretapping'. Hmmm...

First thing this woman said, when we (I was a Democrat in 2006) HANDED HER CONTROL OF THE HOUSE, was: "Impeachment (of Bush/Cheney) is OFF THE TABLE." That was Betrayal Number One; and upon hearing Lady Nancy proclaim thusly, I took myself down to my city hall, whereupon I registered as an Independent.

Now I see that she's actually gonna forgive Bush his war crimes? OMG! To what end? Or--wait! Can it BE? No, say it isn't so!

Could La Nancy have had an...ummmm...liaison of sorts (a la Condi Rice) with Duh Prez?!!!
This isn't treatment from a Speaker of the House, as much as it is, from a Lover!!!

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A reminder
Posted by: chlamor on Jun 21, 2008 1:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Supporting Democrats is a serious political disorder, like alcoholism or returning again & again to an abusive spouse who repeatedly lies to you. It's easy to fall off the wagon, to make excuses & rationalizations for it.

Even many whose views are developed enough to recognize such truths as the fundamental rottenness of the 2-party system & the complicity of Democrats in all of the Republicans' major crimes, are still unable to draw the logical consequences of these insights. (Those so naive that they still conceive of Democrats as being the "opponents" of Republicans are another case altogether.)

The central point is this: capitalist society permits the Democrats to be one of the 2 allowed parties for a very definite reason. It's not because the Democrats "serve the people." It's because in a subtle but effective way, they help the capitalists keep the populace under control by providing them with the illusion of possible change. TPTB don't want the people "served." They want them managed, or controlled.

It is the job, the central social function of the Democrats to always be dangling before the people's noses vague pseudo-hints of possible change, so as to keep them from bolting from bourgeois politics altogether. It is the Democrats' intention to never deliver meaningful change, but rather to keep dangling hints of it alluringly forever. This produces control -- a populace habituated to remain safely within the lines required by ruling class interests.

This is why the Democrats NEVER paint a picture of US history that's the slightest bit accurate -- they want a brainwashed population every bit as much as the Republicans do. This is why they NEVER are willing to set forth an honest socioeconomic analysis of why things are as they are -- they much prefer that people not understand such things.

As long as a large chunk of voters can be deceived by the seemingly "nicer guy" act of the Democrats, there is no hope whatever of coming to grips with the core problems of our society. The most dangerous trends -- a wasteful consumer society, environmental destruction, grotesque social inequality, and an uncontrollable propaganda/war machine -- cannot even be approached within the framework of bourgeois politics, because they all serve ruling class interests. This is what is really being protected, when people opt to support Democrats just because they seem less blatantly cruel on TV.

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The Democrats are just a faction of the enemy
Posted by: chlamor on Jun 21, 2008 1:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
-- not allies in any sense. They are not the "lesser evil;" they are an auxiliary subdivision of the same evil. They have betrayed us beyond all possible reconciliation, and are more truly allies of the Republicans than they are "friends" of ours.

It's just a fallacy to believe that the Democrats can somehow be transformed into a political force defending the interests of the broader public. That's not what they are. That they dare posture as the "party of the people" is an insult to our collective intelligence. In reality, they use this tattered & tired popular image to collude with the rightwing, confuse the public, & sell us out at every turn.

The following are intended to sharpen the Dems' message, defining what they stand for and how they’re different from Republicans.

1. "We Surrender."

2. "Please don't yell at us, we're frightened."

3. "Would you like us to roll over on our backs now, or do you prefer that we remain on our knees?"

4. "Let's bomb Iran."

5. "We stand shoulder-to-shoulder with the President."

6. "We stand for rule by a kinder, gentler military-industrial complex."

7. "What's good for MobilExxon, Citicorp, and Northrop-Grumman is good for America."

8. "If you like venal cowards and betrayal, vote for us!"

9. "Please don't ask us to stand up to the Republicans. They get very angry if anyone opposes them -- and it's really scary!!"

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Bush-Pelosi Regime Betrayed America
Posted by: dayahka on Jun 21, 2008 4:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You treat this "spy" law as if it is a paradigm case of the betrayal of the American Constitution when in fact this is just another example in a long list of examples of the unconstitutional, even anti-American, rule of the Bush-Pelosi regime. Pelosi has been complicit in the Bush administration's crimes, and is joined at the hip with the war criminals in the administration, so much so that it is appropriate to regard this as a Bush-Pelosi, Repocrat, administration.

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A majority of Dems voted against it
Posted by: westomoon on Jun 21, 2008 4:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here's the site with the roll-call record. Take a look and see how your Representative voted.

I am furious at my own Rep, who voted "aye", and at Pelosi and Hoyer, and that blithering fool Jane Harman (again). But I am not so silly as to be furious at "the Democrats". The fact remains that 128 Dems (and one brave R) voted against this travesty, including most of the grand old names -- Conyers, Dingell, Frank, Inslee, Kaptur, George Miller, Mollohan, Obey, Pastor, Rangell, Sarbanes, Tsongas, Waxman, and Wexler.

We are not as stupid as the neocons and the Blue Dogs tell us we are. This vote is reason to get rid of a lot of incumbents, including the inexpressibly vile House leadership who engineered this crime, but not the D party -- yet. In my State, the primaries for Congress are still in the future, and my Congressman has a Dem challenger -- who just acquired at least one new donor/volunteer last night.

Most of all... this is just the House, people! This vote is reason to start leaning on our Senators, including Obama, as hard as we can. Even if the Senate simply passes a different version, much can be accomplished in conference committee -- as Tom DeLay's crowd taught us so well. This site gives you contact info for everyone, including Harry Reid.

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» desidid Posted by: westomoon
» RE:westomoon Posted by: desidid
Mourning
Posted by: cdcmtotr on Jun 21, 2008 4:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At first I was furious with anger, but now I am in mourning for our Country. It is truly a sad day to see our Democrats so weak and just as guilty as King George. I was a Democrat, but as of today I am no longer. I am a lady in waiting for a viable 3rd party that will not trample on the Constitution, reflect my progressive views, and is strong enough to give competition to these two traitorious parties. In WWII all capitulated to Hitler and history tells it's own story. We are not the great nation we used to be and for that I am in mourning.

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» RE: Mourning Posted by: honestlyoutraged
» RE: Mourning Posted by: Dianka
Do you know why the Democrats don't respond to the will of the people?
Posted by: douglashoyt on Jun 21, 2008 5:40 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because the elections are rigged.

The voting machines are literally programed to produce favorable results for the two ruling elite parties.

Remember the corruption of the voting machines, and the promises to correct them?

Nothing has changed. The voting system is still a corrupt mess.

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There are Mistakes in this Authors Article........
Posted by: Turiye on Jun 21, 2008 5:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hasn't anyone read the text of H.R.6304, including the author???? TITLE.VII of, the new lovely 'Short Title', FISA Amendments Act of 2008, Section 704 allows Intelligence Departments to Target US Citizens Outside of the United States. They struck Title VII of the FISA of 1978 (50 U.S.C.1801 et seq.) is amended---followed by (1), (2), the original Title VII was in SEC.101. It's only 59 pages long doesn't take that long to read.
And insofar as the Senate is concerned it's on their legislative calender #816, could be 819, and no date is given for when this will be heard, so she's wrong again.
Go to thomas.gov, for the Vote Call the number is:Roll Call 437.
Always use the fed sites if you want the correct text. Or just watch it on Cspan, as for McClellan you only had to go to the Senate Daily schedule and you could have live streamed his entire testimony.

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Dems not caving in
Posted by: Dianka on Jun 21, 2008 7:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It would be in our own best interests if we would finally understand that the Dem leadership isn't caving or capitulating. They are cooperating, ensuring the passage of the most extreme aspects of the Republican agenda, and have been doing so for years. While two or more candidates might compete for some very high-paying jobs, the two major parties merged back in the '80's.

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LOL
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jun 21, 2008 8:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course they did. Is anyone really surprised?

JT
http://www.Fireme.To/udi

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What about a Dem Presidency and FISA?
Posted by: Kimberlrae on Jun 21, 2008 9:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am wondering what this all means when a Dem is in the WH? Will the RW/GOP and sit back and allow Pres. Obama warrantless spying?

The capitulation on immunity for Telcoms is a HUGE disappointment, but I'm wondering, now that Bush is headed for Crawford in 6 months, what this means for the next prez, if he's Obama. Can he overturn the bill then?

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The first crack in the armor!
Posted by: jporter on Jun 22, 2008 12:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Senator Barack Obama defends intelligence gathering that would expand the wiretapping powers of President Bush's administration." In a country of laws and not personalities, I would think that supporting this bill would certainly be illegal in light of the 4th Amendment. It makes me sick to think Obama is nothing more than a politician out to serve his office and not my rights. Do I rethink about who I will vote for??? Where the hell is Ron Paul??

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» Do a Write in Vote for RON PAUL Posted by: Persephone8
X pat
Posted by: davy on Jun 22, 2008 12:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Great comments. America, you had better start swimming.

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Our right and duty
Posted by: Keystone on Jun 22, 2008 1:23 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security".

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LOvely
Posted by: GreyFoxThree on Jun 22, 2008 6:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I said long ago it would all be neatly swept under the rug and that the American Sheeple would be hand fed some fine lies. Doesnt surprise me in the least. Still, in most peoples eyes, we all know Dictator Bush is a War Criminal.

JT
Think your ISP is spying on you?

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It's time to break the political parties!
Posted by: ikonoklast on Jun 22, 2008 7:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly, although the Republicans are demonstrably worse, neither political party is working for the American people. The "Revolution of 2006" was supposed to send a message to the halls of power, but that message fell on deaf ears. Now it's time for the American people to pursue a more aggressive strategy to restore their sovereignty.

The key is to stop voting for Republicans or Democrats. Don't cast a single vote to put a Dem or Rep in office. Only vote for Independents and 3rd party candidates. That's the only way to take our country back from the two-faced political machine.

This is going to be an incredibly difficult strategy to pursue, but I believe it is the only way to bring peace, justice, equality, and security to America. The political machines are so entrenched in our collective culture that even with concerted effort this is going to take years--possibly even lifetimes. However, I am convinced this is the only sane and effective way to shift political power to the people.

The key, as with all grass-root efforts, is to start small and local, and allow momentum to build and propel the movement. Start on a local level, and tell your friends, to turn your back on the majority parties. Cut them off--completely.

This is a scary task to contemplate: what if taking support away from Democrats at this critical time allows the Republicans to continue to run roughshod over the country? Well, look around--the Dems won in 2006 and what the fuck have they done for us lately?

If your worried about this year's elections--well, so am I. I still believe Obama is going to be a damn sight better than McCain, and Barack is getting my vote in November--but after that the Democrats are cut off. They will not receive another vote from me until they start doing their jobs, and based on past experience I don't find that likely.

I'll continue to support progressive Independent and 3rd-party candidates and encourage others to do so. I'll be doing my part to break the 2-party stranglehold, and I hope you will too.

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You Have to SEE This
Posted by: Persephone8 on Jun 22, 2008 9:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It will explain most of what is happening in the American government.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4df1soW7Dho&NR=1

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Redirect your contributions
Posted by: PaulC on Jun 22, 2008 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One great way to punish the feckless and traitorous Dems is simply don't give them any more money.

What I am doing is shifting any money they would have gotten over to the enviro groups that I favor. This way I have the best of both worlds - I punish the Dems and I help my favorite causes.

And best of all, this narrow targeting of my funds puts ME back in control of how my contributions, anyway, are being spent.

peace,
Paul

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dick
Posted by: rtmyth on Jun 22, 2008 2:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The power elite always win, and the masses always loose. The power elite includes both partys' elected officials, the Congress and the Admin.

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Abusing the "system"
Posted by: frantaylor on Jun 22, 2008 2:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The executive branch is normally given some slack so that they are not micro-managed, and they can solve problems without having to worry too much about stepping beyond the bounds. For example, sending in a "James Bond" type with a "license to kill" to stamp out an problem is ugly and blatantly illegal, but it's better than having full-scale war break out. The mutual understanding is that the fast-and-loose is kept to a minimum and nobody complains.

Except this administration has made fast-and-loose the rule rather than the exception. The Democrats don't want to crack down because that ruins it for everyone. The Republicans know this and are pushing things way too far. This is the beginning of the end because now everyone knows that the rules are "off the table" and anarchy sets in. Look out.

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The wonder is . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on Jun 22, 2008 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wonder is that anyone is surprised by this (no one willing to listen to me or read what I've been writing for the last thirty years will be, of course). It has been obvious for decades that "government" does not control the U.S.

How can anyone who has listened to political campaign after campaign and taken what was espoused and promised at face value believe that the people we elect control our country?

The military industrial complex corporations who staged a silent coup in the early 1950s, and their corporate latter-day clones put these clowns up for election, then dictate to them what they will do.

How in the H--- else do you explain U.S. history - including perpetuation to the total exclusion of everything else of an obsolute energy system like that dependent upon oil - since then? How do you explain a presidencey now risen to that of outright despotism (the current one has publicly repudiated his oath of office, for heaven's sake!)? How else do you explain a military grown to the mind-boggling size and costs of this one (while you're at it, explain an agency, the CIA, made able since its inception to spend as much as it chooses without accounting).

How else do you explain an Operation MOCKINGBIRD, a program designed to co-opt and control the new media and the nation's mind (explain, too, how a nation's public could otherwise have become to blind and sheep-like as this one).

Come on, people - wake up!

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Yes of course
Posted by: chlamor on Jun 22, 2008 5:35 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please post it far and wide.

Anytime you see anything I post consider it yours.

I doubt seriously there are many publishers interested in the stuff I might write. BTW I self-produce booklets and distribute locally.

I will post a link to a few here:

Booklet# 4

Booklet #3

If you're interested in the other two booklets head to the links and send me a PM and I'll mail them to you.

I have two more on the way. But I consider none of the ideas to be original nor to be held in ownership. We are in dire need of political movements and need to actively work towards resisting the hegemony of the political parties.

Solidarity.

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A National Vote Boycott of All Congressmen from both parties Nov 4
Posted by: JohnHKennedy Denver CO on Jun 23, 2008 8:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since most Congressmen refuse to stand up to Bush and call for impeachment, suppose we have an election where we Boycott All Of Congress?

A PROPOSAL... Suppose some person or group organize a

National BOYCOTT OF ALL CONGRESSMEN IN THE ELECTION?

Urge Voters to vote for the Presidential Candidate of their choice,
BUT ASK VOTERS TO NOT VOTE FOR
ANY Democratic or Republican CONGRESSMAN
FOR ANY FEDERAL OFFICE
(either House or Senate)


You’ll get the President You Want
But the BOYCOTT of Congressmen might Upset
the Vote Totals enough
To Send A Message To ALL Congressmen to
TAKE THEIR OATH OF OFFICE SERIOUSLY
and to
To Protect Our Constitution,
AND TO IMPEACH When It Is Obvious To ALL that Crimes have been committed By The Executive Branch.

They have ignored everything we have said or done to get them to obey the Constitution and at least hold impeachment hearings. WHY NOT TRY THIS?

A National Vote Boycott of All Congressmen
from both parties in November.


They might get the message in time to save themselves before the 2010 election.

..

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So what are you going to do?
Posted by: liberalibrarian on Jun 23, 2008 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not vote for anybody? Vote for people who haven't a snowball's chance in oh say, Tucson, August?

I will continue to support the Democrats i.e Obama unless and until he is in office and sells out.

Stay home and put your heads in the sand if you like--I'm going to stay engaged with the Democratic party...the least reprehensible if you want to call it that.

Nobody's perfect--but I think he will do his best to change the course America has taken over the last 8 years. What is all this let's not support any of them BS on Alternet all the time these days--do you really think your voting for marginal progressives here and there is really going to help?

How naive you are.

The process takes time. Getting the Democratic party in and getting the Repugs out is the first step--maybe in 2012 or soon thereafter the country will consist of Democrats who are central/liberal and Green/Progressives who can drive their agenda...but first things first--let's get the neocons out of business.

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» RE: So what are you going to do? Posted by: ikonoklast
nvannes
Posted by: hvannes on Jun 23, 2008 7:22 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To me it is truly remarkable how positively inept and leaderless and unprincipled our democratic leadership is in the face of such compelling evidence aganst the present administration. Bush, who should be tried for murder, is actually being supported by the do-nothing democrats who have clearly conspired to do exactrly that - nothing! And why should they, when it is the People they represent who could care less about corruption at the top. It is exactly why this illegal war has gone on for so long, longer than Vietnam, longer than WW2, because we the people are afraid to act. My own democratic congressman, Bill Delahunt happens to agree whole heartedly with Pelosi and Dean. Impeachment is a "waste of time", a "political distraction with such little time left". Please do your part, everyone. It is up to us to make sure we understand our representative's position on impeachment. If your representative is playing politics instead of principle, if he or she would rather let the corruption slide in order to get a stronger majority next time around, rather than go after corruptiopn now, than it is our fault for not letting them know, in person or with a phone call or an email, how we feel and that they will not be able to get away with such irresponsibility at the next election, no matter how incumbant or important they feel they might be. It is up to us now because clearly our representatives are not acting in our best interests or in the interest of our country and constitution. We must never forget nor forgive their position on impeachment and hold them fully accountable.

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nvannes
Posted by: hvannes on Jun 23, 2008 7:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would ask Pelosi and all others agreeing with her, that impeachment is off the table, how much worse does it haver to get before you put it back on the table? Can the president rob a car in the name of democracy, in the name of war on terror, shoot a policeman, kill his wife? Would impeachment still be off the table, Nancy? Are the crimes he has already committed and admitted to, any less evil? How dare you take impeachment off the table? And by the way, did you ever ask why WTT #7 fell on 911 when it wasn't even hit by an airplane, or was it explained to you secretly by the military industrial complex? Google "Loose Change" on YouTube. Fascinating.

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BA
Posted by: mnstra on Jun 24, 2008 8:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Careful of what you say here. they may bump you out.

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An Opportuntiy for Change
Posted by: EdNet on Jun 27, 2008 7:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is hard to defend accusations that so many Democrats in both houses of Congress are weak - on so many things.

From "national security" to FISA to taking on a really lame-duck president. From fighting corporate food producers, corporate pharmaceuticals, corporate media to fighting for citizens' civil and constitutional rights, too many Democrats have shown weakness.

But now, because of the Supreme Court ruling on handguns, all that can change. Change we can believe in!

Senator Obama, the leader of the "new and changed" Democratic Party, boasting his street creds, recently said that if they (Republicans) bring a knife to the fight, we will bring a gun!

Well now is your chance, Senator. You talked the talk, now walk the walk.

OK. We know it was a metaphor. But it does provide an opportunity to lead Democrats to change.

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