COMMENTS: 94
A Northern Family's Role in the Slave Trade
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Katrina Browne is the producer, director, and writer of "Traces of the Trade: A Story from the Deep North," which premiers on PBS as part of the Point of View film series on June 24. She grew up very proud of ancestry: Her New England-based DeWolf family is filled with generations of prominent and successful people. The fact that they originally made their fortune as slave traders was only ever mentioned in family lore as a footnote. As Browne says, "I never thought to ask how we got so established."
While attending the Pacific School of Religion in Berkeley, Calif., Browne received a DeWolf family history booklet written by her grandmother that referenced her family's slave-trading past. Browne was appalled. Then she realized that this was not news to her; rather, she had known most of her life that the DeWolfs were slave traders, but she had never fully acknowledged the horrendous truth about her family's past. After deciding that she had to do something to come to terms with her ancestry, Browne contacted 200 DeWolf descendants asking them to join her on a journey around the Triangle Trade route that made three generations of DeWolfs the most prominent slave-trading family in the United States. One hundred forty people never responded to her letter; nine relatives signed up.
"Traces of the Trade: A Story from the Deep North," which has screened at a number of film festivals, including Sundance, documents the 2001 journey Browne and her relatives took to trace her ancestors' route from Rhode Island to Ghana to Cuba and back again. The result is a powerful 86-minute film that starts an important and often uncomfortable dialogue about race.
Browne asked her relatives to travel with her because she felt that it was "more than I could take on by myself." The group dynamic also stimulated very intense discussions about race and accountability; different family members felt very differently about guilt and responsibility. The DeWolfs brought more than 10,000 Africans to the United States and Cuba, and more than 500,000 descendants of those slaves are alive today.
Do the DeWolf descendants bear some responsibility for their ancestors' actions?
The journey begins in Bristol, R.I., the ancestral home of the DeWolfs. At the height of their enterprise, the DeWolfs' business supported the entire town of Bristol -- local shipyards built the ships used to transport slaves and goods; the distilleries made rum from sugar grown on the DeWolfs' Cuban plantations; Bristol warehouses stored their rum and sugar; and many New Englanders owned slaves that the DeWolfs bought and sold. Their former mansion, Linden Place, is now a museum, and St. Michael's Episcopal Church has enormous stained glass windows bearing the family's name. While trading thousands of slaves, the DeWolfs called themselves Christians.
The truth about their lineage didn't really seem to resonate with the DeWolf descendants while in Bristol; the Northeastern town is far too idyllic to really bring home the ghastly reality of slavery. But the real contrast of how slave traders lived in comparison to the slaves they bought and sold was too dramatic to ignore in Ghana. For generations, the DeWolfs traded rum and other goods for slaves on the African coast. While visiting the dark, cramped cells where slaves were held before being traded, Browne and her relatives were physically sickened by the inhumane conditions.
"It was an evil thing -- they knew it was an evil thing, and they did it anyway," declared Tom DeWolf, who has since written a book about his experience, "Inheriting the Trade: A Northern Family Confronts Its Legacy as the Largest Slave-Trading Dynasty in U.S. History."
In Ghana, the DeWolf travelers were not well received by many of the Africans and African Americans they met. They were much too obvious to go unnoticed -- especially in their fanny packs and Boston Red Sox baseball hats. Dain Perry, who came with his brother and nephew, puts out his hand to shake hands with an African American woman who is visiting Ghana, but she refuses it, saying, "I was hoping to not see any white people." When the racial tension becomes too much, Browne and her relatives seek refuge in a nature preserve, which seems like an oddly self-indulgent activity considering the purpose of their visit.
Aside from the occasional moment of disconnect, the DeWolf descendants are very candid. During a town hall discussion in Ghana, Perry admits that while growing up in Charleston, S.C., in the 1940s and 1950s, the extremely racist environment shaped his views. Although he claims to have overcome his discriminatory beliefs, admitting that he was a racist in a room filled with Africans is surprisingly honest. Browne, who notes that she is from a different and more culturally accepting generation than Perry, tells the group that she still "feels separate from black Americans." The film is truly a microcosm for the larger debate that Americans need to have about race and responsibility.
Their final stop is Cuba, the former location of the DeWolfs' sugar and coffee plantations, which were active until 1875. Although the plantations no longer exist, their profits funded the building of Linden Place in Rhode Island. Today, little evidence of the DeWolfs' slave trade in Cuba remains, but even so, the group has a breakdown of sorts when descendant Keila DePoorter tells everyone, "we're being our nice Protestant selves and I'm tired of it." Finally a real discussion about their ancestors and current responsibility as descendants begins.
Even though none of the modern DeWolfs directly inherited any money made during the slave trade, there is a definite sense that their current affluence is a result of their ancestry. The DeWolfs' influence was so far-reaching that President Thomas Jefferson gave them a dispensation to continue trading slaves after it became illegal in 1808. It's hard to ignore that this kind of elite status typically sustains itself for generations; many members of Browne's group, including Browne herself, attended Ivy League schools and lead very affluent lives.
"Traces of the Trade: A Story from the Deep North" is an incredibly well executed and powerful film. It tackles an important discussion about race that most people would rather ignore because it is both painful and too often considered taboo, especially in regard to slavery. But the reality is that many Americans, not just Southern plantation owners, benefited from the cheap labor and goods fueled by the slave trade. Though not everyone may be able to trace their own lineage back to a family like the DeWolfs, the film makes the point that everyone can participate in a discussion about race.
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Posted by: Jasonix on Jun 10, 2008 4:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When society has higher populations, it prefers to use wages - you get some money for your work, and the employer doesn't need to worry about your upkeep. Ideally, from the employer's perspective, he'll be able to pay you less than what it'd take to house and feed you. There should be a large number of people kept unemployed so that you'll be motivated to work to keep your job.
Tibet managed to make a fusion of these two systems - serfs were bound to work for assigned masters, but they had to support themselves. This was justified by Tibetan religion. I believe that we might see something similar in America in the future - if you get in a situation where you can't pay your bills, you go to prison or a detention center. You'll be saddled with debt, and you'll be imprisoned if you fail to keep running like a hamster on a wheel.
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» RE: Slavery vs. wages
Posted by: dudelette
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Posted by: Bozwell on Jun 10, 2008 4:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» We "Globalized" our SLAVE TRADE
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» I assume you only purchase "Fair Trade" consumer goods?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: I assume you only purchase "Fair Trade" consumer goods?
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» I am *EMBARRASSED* I replied
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: We "Globalized" our SLAVE TRADE
Posted by: bornxeyed
» You perfectly describe a socialist society
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» No, I described The United States of Ameica, jackass!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: No, I described The United States of Ameica, jackass!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: No, I described The United States of Ameica, jackass!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: We "Globalized" our SLAVE TRADE Long Ago
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 10, 2008 5:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Too Many Americans Treat Slavery Like An Entitlement Program
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» Another book
Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: Another book
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Vik on Jun 10, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» hey - is this Chris Mathews?
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: hey - is this Chris Mathews?
Posted by: Vik
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: Shehova
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: mtnprivy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chutry on Jun 10, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: animatedstardust on Jun 10, 2008 7:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello! We're ALL related and DNA research (i.e. National Geographic's Genographic Project) proves this a fact today.
It's time for Mosby and the rest of the media to recognize and respect this important fact and stop attempting to keep us seperate. We're ALL related! There is only ONE race. The Human Race.
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» Yes, but you're dealing with a bunch of race religionists...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist on Jun 10, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my mind the US has made tremendous reparation programs. Lyndon Baines Johnson and his massive Great Society program reallocated enormous sums of money from white middle class Americans to mainly African Americans. It still does today.
The US has the affirmative action legislation. If you are an African American you get scholarships and grants from any university basically for free i.e higher education is virtually without cost as long a you have the grades.
So what more do the American society "owe" African American, free housing, a lifetime guaranteed income, a free car etc. ?
This social experiment in repaying for 100 years of slavery has had little or no effect. It has basically been a waste of money. The only ones benefiting are African Americans that already had the ability to get ahead, they got free education, did not have to have student loans and got preferential treatment in the workplace. What of the rest? the inner cities of the US? Are they better of because of this sense of Entitlement, that America owes them?
My personal belief is that it is nothing more damaging than to generous entitlements, in Sweden we can see this very clearly. We now have a very large portion of our population that now are living on Entitlement, it is now so many that the portion of the population that actually work can no longer support those that do not work, there are no more taxes to be had.
The US has problems with its minorities but so do we, Sweden minorities are mainly people from the Middle East most of them extremely religious conservative Muslims. The problems are the same, so it cannot be the issue of slavery alone. Aother similarity is the large Entitlement programs. But is there a causality? That is what many studies in Sweden now is trying to find out, does large Entitlement programs activate the non working portion of the minority group or pacify them, keep them on entitlement permanently?
I think that the guilt trip has to end, in the US it must be clear that there is only one people. Not black, white, Chinese, Mexican, gay or straight, female or male. We are all living in America. Nobody has any special privileges or rights! Everybody is equal.
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» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» So America owes you?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: desidid
» The Entitlement programs of Lyndon Baines Johnson ARE reparations
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Let You Fingers Do The Walking
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» RE: The 2 Rating Doesn't Answer Any Questions
Posted by: desidid
» Thinking as an individual and a group does not make you automatically vote Republican
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: Spiritgirl
» Driving whilst black
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» Cops have a hard job to do
Posted by: JibreelRiley
» Thank You from a Young Black Conservative
Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: More Gibberish From A Condi Clone
Posted by: desidid
» I got your clone
Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: I got your clone
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Thank You from a Young Black Conservative
Posted by: anonymous black writer
» Hypocrisy
Posted by: michael1972
» Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Jun 10, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mainly it was because they were in Europe at the time of slavery.
Since I never met them, can one of those of superior intelligence and without an agenda LEGITIMATELY explain to me why I should feel any guilt about what someone did with whom I have never had contact?
I thought not.
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» RE: I never met
Posted by: Denver Dem
» RE: I never met
Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: I never met
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: Dare You To Watch This Amerikkkan Veteran
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Dare You To Watch This Amerikkkan Veteran
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Dare You To Watch This Amerikkkan Veteran
Posted by: desidid
» You thought wrong
Posted by: jam-today
» RE: You thought wrong
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I Knew The Response Before I read It
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I never met
Posted by: ellarwee
» Europe
Posted by: michael1972
Comments are closed-
Posted by: harpy on Jun 10, 2008 10:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people don't realize that the first slave revolts were in New York City as early as 1741 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1p285.html , and after that was quelled, several slaves were burned at the stake, in addition to other punishments. The slavery and the racism have never been confined to the South, and the worst riots concerning the Civil Rights Act occurred in Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, and other cities not Southern.
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Posted by: wolfgangmo75 on Jun 10, 2008 11:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: WesternNY on Jun 10, 2008 11:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not sure why that person thinks that Johnson's Great Society was one large entitlement program for blacks. The description given of blacks' claims on American society are certainly exaggerated. Besides, I don't understand why this is bothersome, especially for someone from a country where anyone with the right grades can go to college.
Johnson's Great Society involved mainly the creation of Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps. These are programs available to all who qualify: they are not race based.
Johnson's contribution to the unfortunate demise of the Democratic party was the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1964. The effect of these laws was the destruction of Jim Crow laws in the South and any race descrimination anywhere in this country. One part of the conservative argument against regulation is code for bemoaning the federal outlawing of racial discrimination; the other part is code for bemoaning the government's interference with the greedy impulses of the corporate interests.
And while I feel no particular personal guilt about what occurred with regard to black Americans, I do believe that it is only fair to provide a level playing field. The fact that Obama is now a candidate indicates how great the need for Johnson's civil rights laws was: Obama was born only within a few years of Johnson signing those acts.
For immigrants to this country, it takes approximately three generations to fit in (this is my background, and my son is the third generation). Clearly, blacks were finally given a fair shake beginning only in 1963, the true end of slavery in the US. Obama is the proof of that pudding.
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» Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: WesternNY
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: WesternNY
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: desidid
» I beg to differ (See: NO and Hurricane Katrina)
Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: I beg to differ (See: NO and Hurricane Katrina)
Posted by: anonymous black writer
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on Jun 10, 2008 3:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pt. 2
Pt. 3
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Posted by: Turiye on Jun 10, 2008 8:18 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Man,.No I refuse this is all about a bunch of white men that think some how they were fucked. Screw this. I already know the ending..
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» "...being Black in America is a lot like... " ~ Chris Rock
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 11, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sad but true, because to admit otherwise would grant some measure of respect to Canada in American history classrooms. Can't have that!
...given that Americans write American textbooks, this fact has been conveniently forgotten.
The other convenient omission?
...is that the US Civil War was *emotionally & publicly motivated* by slavery (which was ostensibly ended within the British Empire, yet still existed 'out of sight, out of mind')...
but the US Northern bankers, industrialists, war profiteers & investors?
...wanted the Southern economy & land: the anti-slavery dispute was the popular & justifiable motivator for public support for an economic aggression.
The charming part?
...is that slavery still exists as an integral part of the 'norm' or American Way. Why? pay attention to what you buy & from where it came. Its simply more *profitable* to keep the slaves where they are now & move the product, not the people.
"To be a trade unionist (in Columbia) is to carry a tombstone on your back": Mark Thomas "on Coca-Cola" documentary
the 'cultural norm' popularized by American media is based on foreign slavery or near-slave conditions...
...don't even *ask* how cellphone batteries are made, or about the living standards in the US 'protectorate' of Saipan...
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
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» RE: Most people *forget* that the UnderGround Railroad...
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BCcovers on Jun 11, 2008 9:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even more surprising to most is the wealth and power amassed by many tribal chiefs/slave traders on the west coast of Africa. The slave traders (black) recieved manufactured goods from Europe they could not otherwise recieve. Remember, it was a slave trade; not slave theft. Meaning that both trading parties exacted benefits; both the Western Africans (who still hold and trade slaves today!) and the white Europeans.
Furthermore one would be surprised at the many black slaveholders in the south prior to and during the civil war. Yes, that's right. Blacks owned plantations and slaves right here in America. The 1830 census listed over 3000 black slaveholders! New Orleans had many of these black slaveholders several of which had very large, prosperous plantations. Just google black slaveholders and you will be confronted with a wealth of information.
So while, yes, racism of the populations of America was rampant. Painting slavery and consequently reparations in a purely racial, white versus black manner does history a disservice. How can one ask the white man to make repairations for a practice that benefitted many blacks both here and abroad and is still engrained in many western african cultures to this very day?
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» RE: Please Link Your Numbers, Here Is A Link For You
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Please Link Your Numbers, Here Is A Link For You
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Right Wing Sites Are Your Source?
Posted by: desidid
» Western European Merchants ran the Atlantic Slave Trade for 400 years.
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jasonix on Jun 10, 2008 4:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When society has higher populations, it prefers to use wages - you get some money for your work, and the employer doesn't need to worry about your upkeep. Ideally, from the employer's perspective, he'll be able to pay you less than what it'd take to house and feed you. There should be a large number of people kept unemployed so that you'll be motivated to work to keep your job.
Tibet managed to make a fusion of these two systems - serfs were bound to work for assigned masters, but they had to support themselves. This was justified by Tibetan religion. I believe that we might see something similar in America in the future - if you get in a situation where you can't pay your bills, you go to prison or a detention center. You'll be saddled with debt, and you'll be imprisoned if you fail to keep running like a hamster on a wheel.
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» RE: Slavery vs. wages
Posted by: dudelette
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bozwell on Jun 10, 2008 4:54 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» We "Globalized" our SLAVE TRADE
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» I assume you only purchase "Fair Trade" consumer goods?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: I assume you only purchase "Fair Trade" consumer goods?
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» I am *EMBARRASSED* I replied
Posted by: Prairie Waif
» RE: We "Globalized" our SLAVE TRADE
Posted by: bornxeyed
» You perfectly describe a socialist society
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» No, I described The United States of Ameica, jackass!
Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: No, I described The United States of Ameica, jackass!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: No, I described The United States of Ameica, jackass!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: We "Globalized" our SLAVE TRADE Long Ago
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on Jun 10, 2008 5:10 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Too Many Americans Treat Slavery Like An Entitlement Program
Posted by: ChicagoPaul
» Another book
Posted by: supercrisp
» RE: Another book
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Vik on Jun 10, 2008 5:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» hey - is this Chris Mathews?
Posted by: war_on_tara
» RE: hey - is this Chris Mathews?
Posted by: Vik
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: Shehova
» RE: well, DUH!
Posted by: mtnprivy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chutry on Jun 10, 2008 6:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: animatedstardust on Jun 10, 2008 7:12 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hello! We're ALL related and DNA research (i.e. National Geographic's Genographic Project) proves this a fact today.
It's time for Mosby and the rest of the media to recognize and respect this important fact and stop attempting to keep us seperate. We're ALL related! There is only ONE race. The Human Race.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Yes, but you're dealing with a bunch of race religionists...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist on Jun 10, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In my mind the US has made tremendous reparation programs. Lyndon Baines Johnson and his massive Great Society program reallocated enormous sums of money from white middle class Americans to mainly African Americans. It still does today.
The US has the affirmative action legislation. If you are an African American you get scholarships and grants from any university basically for free i.e higher education is virtually without cost as long a you have the grades.
So what more do the American society "owe" African American, free housing, a lifetime guaranteed income, a free car etc. ?
This social experiment in repaying for 100 years of slavery has had little or no effect. It has basically been a waste of money. The only ones benefiting are African Americans that already had the ability to get ahead, they got free education, did not have to have student loans and got preferential treatment in the workplace. What of the rest? the inner cities of the US? Are they better of because of this sense of Entitlement, that America owes them?
My personal belief is that it is nothing more damaging than to generous entitlements, in Sweden we can see this very clearly. We now have a very large portion of our population that now are living on Entitlement, it is now so many that the portion of the population that actually work can no longer support those that do not work, there are no more taxes to be had.
The US has problems with its minorities but so do we, Sweden minorities are mainly people from the Middle East most of them extremely religious conservative Muslims. The problems are the same, so it cannot be the issue of slavery alone. Aother similarity is the large Entitlement programs. But is there a causality? That is what many studies in Sweden now is trying to find out, does large Entitlement programs activate the non working portion of the minority group or pacify them, keep them on entitlement permanently?
I think that the guilt trip has to end, in the US it must be clear that there is only one people. Not black, white, Chinese, Mexican, gay or straight, female or male. We are all living in America. Nobody has any special privileges or rights! Everybody is equal.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» So America owes you?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: desidid
» The Entitlement programs of Lyndon Baines Johnson ARE reparations
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Let You Fingers Do The Walking
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: So America owes you?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: Knot_Rich
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
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» RE: The 2 Rating Doesn't Answer Any Questions
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» Thinking as an individual and a group does not make you automatically vote Republican
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
Posted by: michael1972
» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
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» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
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» Driving whilst black
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» RE: I do not understand the guilt trip of certain Americans
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» Cops have a hard job to do
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» Thank You from a Young Black Conservative
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» RE: More Gibberish From A Condi Clone
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» I got your clone
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» RE: I got your clone
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» RE: Thank You from a Young Black Conservative
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» Hypocrisy
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» Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
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» RE: Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
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» RE: Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
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» RE: Give a dollar figure for reparations. I've heard $1 trillion suggested. Talk about economic stimulus
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Jun 10, 2008 9:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mainly it was because they were in Europe at the time of slavery.
Since I never met them, can one of those of superior intelligence and without an agenda LEGITIMATELY explain to me why I should feel any guilt about what someone did with whom I have never had contact?
I thought not.
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» RE: I never met
Posted by: Denver Dem
» RE: I never met
Posted by: anonymous black writer
» RE: I never met
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» RE: Dare You To Watch This Amerikkkan Veteran
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Dare You To Watch This Amerikkkan Veteran
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: Dare You To Watch This Amerikkkan Veteran
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» You thought wrong
Posted by: jam-today
» RE: You thought wrong
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I Knew The Response Before I read It
Posted by: desidid
» RE: I never met
Posted by: ellarwee
» Europe
Posted by: michael1972
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Posted by: harpy on Jun 10, 2008 10:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most people don't realize that the first slave revolts were in New York City as early as 1741 http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/aia/part1/1p285.html , and after that was quelled, several slaves were burned at the stake, in addition to other punishments. The slavery and the racism have never been confined to the South, and the worst riots concerning the Civil Rights Act occurred in Boston, Detroit, Los Angeles, and other cities not Southern.
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Posted by: wolfgangmo75 on Jun 10, 2008 11:37 AM
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Posted by: WesternNY on Jun 10, 2008 11:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am not sure why that person thinks that Johnson's Great Society was one large entitlement program for blacks. The description given of blacks' claims on American society are certainly exaggerated. Besides, I don't understand why this is bothersome, especially for someone from a country where anyone with the right grades can go to college.
Johnson's Great Society involved mainly the creation of Medicare, Medicaid and food stamps. These are programs available to all who qualify: they are not race based.
Johnson's contribution to the unfortunate demise of the Democratic party was the Civil Rights Act of 1964 and the Voting Rights Act of 1964. The effect of these laws was the destruction of Jim Crow laws in the South and any race descrimination anywhere in this country. One part of the conservative argument against regulation is code for bemoaning the federal outlawing of racial discrimination; the other part is code for bemoaning the government's interference with the greedy impulses of the corporate interests.
And while I feel no particular personal guilt about what occurred with regard to black Americans, I do believe that it is only fair to provide a level playing field. The fact that Obama is now a candidate indicates how great the need for Johnson's civil rights laws was: Obama was born only within a few years of Johnson signing those acts.
For immigrants to this country, it takes approximately three generations to fit in (this is my background, and my son is the third generation). Clearly, blacks were finally given a fair shake beginning only in 1963, the true end of slavery in the US. Obama is the proof of that pudding.
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» Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: Libertarian Paternalist
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: WesternNY
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: WesternNY
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Is your skin color the only determining factor?
Posted by: desidid
» I beg to differ (See: NO and Hurricane Katrina)
Posted by: JibreelRiley
» RE: I beg to differ (See: NO and Hurricane Katrina)
Posted by: anonymous black writer
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Posted by: desidid on Jun 10, 2008 3:25 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Pt. 2
Pt. 3
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Posted by: Turiye on Jun 10, 2008 8:18 PM
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Man,.No I refuse this is all about a bunch of white men that think some how they were fucked. Screw this. I already know the ending..
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» "...being Black in America is a lot like... " ~ Chris Rock
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jun 11, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sad but true, because to admit otherwise would grant some measure of respect to Canada in American history classrooms. Can't have that!
...given that Americans write American textbooks, this fact has been conveniently forgotten.
The other convenient omission?
...is that the US Civil War was *emotionally & publicly motivated* by slavery (which was ostensibly ended within the British Empire, yet still existed 'out of sight, out of mind')...
but the US Northern bankers, industrialists, war profiteers & investors?
...wanted the Southern economy & land: the anti-slavery dispute was the popular & justifiable motivator for public support for an economic aggression.
The charming part?
...is that slavery still exists as an integral part of the 'norm' or American Way. Why? pay attention to what you buy & from where it came. Its simply more *profitable* to keep the slaves where they are now & move the product, not the people.
"To be a trade unionist (in Columbia) is to carry a tombstone on your back": Mark Thomas "on Coca-Cola" documentary
the 'cultural norm' popularized by American media is based on foreign slavery or near-slave conditions...
...don't even *ask* how cellphone batteries are made, or about the living standards in the US 'protectorate' of Saipan...
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» RE: Most people *forget* that the UnderGround Railroad...
Posted by: desidid
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Posted by: BCcovers on Jun 11, 2008 9:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Even more surprising to most is the wealth and power amassed by many tribal chiefs/slave traders on the west coast of Africa. The slave traders (black) recieved manufactured goods from Europe they could not otherwise recieve. Remember, it was a slave trade; not slave theft. Meaning that both trading parties exacted benefits; both the Western Africans (who still hold and trade slaves today!) and the white Europeans.
Furthermore one would be surprised at the many black slaveholders in the south prior to and during the civil war. Yes, that's right. Blacks owned plantations and slaves right here in America. The 1830 census listed over 3000 black slaveholders! New Orleans had many of these black slaveholders several of which had very large, prosperous plantations. Just google black slaveholders and you will be confronted with a wealth of information.
So while, yes, racism of the populations of America was rampant. Painting slavery and consequently reparations in a purely racial, white versus black manner does history a disservice. How can one ask the white man to make repairations for a practice that benefitted many blacks both here and abroad and is still engrained in many western african cultures to this very day?
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» RE: Please Link Your Numbers, Here Is A Link For You
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Please Link Your Numbers, Here Is A Link For You
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Right Wing Sites Are Your Source?
Posted by: desidid
» Western European Merchants ran the Atlantic Slave Trade for 400 years.
Posted by: yellow
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