COMMENTS: 309
Enforcement on Steroids: Homeland Security's Emerging Immigration Police State (Part I)
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Last week, hundreds of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) agents, flanked by helicopters, a trail of SUVs and a convoy of buses, descended on the tiny town of Postville, Iowa. They set up a perimeter around the 60-acre kosher meat-processing plant operated by the global giant Agriprocessors, Inc. and conducted the largest workplace raid in U.S. history. Around 400 people were arrested -- most from Mexico, Eastern Europe and Guatemala -- representing 40 percent of the plant's workers and 17 percent of the town's population. Warrants for another 300 were issued.
Some would call it a victory for law and order. But a closer look at the showy example of "getting tough on illegals" offers some insight into what immigration restrictionists are really asking for when they call for more immigration enforcement.
During a similar sweep last year, ICE generated some bad publicity when reporters found that a number of young children had been left unattended when their parents were arrested. So 56 of those arrested last week -- mostly mothers of small kids -- were released on "humanitarian grounds." Nonetheless, a federal lawsuit filed on behalf of dozens of the Postville detainees "noted that a number of immigrant workers' children have been stranded with baby sitters and other caretakers as a result of the raid."
The suit charges that some of the detained workers are victims of crimes by Agriprocessors, Inc., which may entitle them to a visa, and accuses the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) of arbitrary and indefinite detention and violating the workers' constitutional rights.
According to the Associated Press, an attorney who interviewed some of those swept up in the raid said that the company itself "obtained false identification for immigrant workers." But in the overwhelming majority of these raids -- 98 percent, according to the Washington Post -- the only people to pay any penalty are poor people trying to earn a substandard wage working in America's growing unregulated economy.
Meanwhile, ICE charged many of the detained with "identity theft" for those faked papers, effectively giving immigration hard-liners what Congress hasn't granted them through the legislative process: serious criminal charges for what have always been misdemeanor immigration violations at most.
In this case, as in many others like it, many of the workers appear to have been seriously exploited. The AP reported that the plant's management "improperly withheld money from employees' paychecks for 'immigration fees,' didn't allow workers to use the restroom during 10-hour shifts, physically abused workers and didn't compensate them for overtime work."
According to MSNBC, workers at the plant were routinely started at $5 per hour for their first three or four months on the job and then raised to $6, still well below Iowa's minimum wage of $7.25.
Iowa Labor Commissioner David Neil confirmed to the Des Moines Register that Agriprocessors was being investigated by the state on suspicion of wage violations, paying people off the books and hiring underage workers. A copy of the federal warrant obtained by the Register described an incident in which "a supervisor covered the eyes of an employee with duct tape and struck him with a meat hook."
It's unclear what the raids' impact will be on the ongoing investigations into the company's workplace violations. With hundreds of workers -- and potential witnesses -- carted away, Jill Cashen, a spokesperson for the United Food and Commercial Workers (UFCW), asked: "how can justice ever be served on these exploitation issues?"
Agriprocessor's management must have been pleased with the timing of the raid. Not only did it put at least a crimp in the ongoing investigations of serious allegations of abuse by the company, it also derailed an effort by UFCW to organize the plants' workers and give them a shot at bargaining with management for better working conditions.
There have been widespread reports of ICE raids coming during sensitive phases of union organizing drives. After rumors of an imminent raid emerged last month, UFCW's Mark Lauritsen wrote ICE officials urging them to follow their own guidelines by suspending "any potentially existing enforcement efforts and refus[ing] to be involved in this labor dispute." Lauritsen told the Des Moines Register that employers at other firms where UFCW had been organizing called in ICE raids themselves to intimidate employees before a union vote, and more generally, to associate union organizing with actions by La Migra in the minds of immigrant workers at other plants.
According to The Washington Post, Agirprocessors, Inc. argued in April that it could ignore a vote by workers at its Brooklyn distribution center to unionize because there were illegal immigrants at the facility who were not entitled to federal labor protections.
Sholom Rubashkin, whose family owns the company and who is described as a "top official" at the Postville plant, is a major Republican political donor, supporting the kind of politicos who champion these kinds of immigration crackdowns.
But Rubashkin is unlikely to be troubled by the action. After the raid gave his firm at least temporary relief from U.S. labor laws and pesky union organizers, the plant opened up the next morning ready for business -- it lost less than a single day's revenues. If recent history is any guide, Agriprocessors, Inc. won't even be fined. Despite the fact that 80 percent of its workforce was undocumented, the company is claiming that it had no knowledge of the violations. Frank Sharry, executive director of America's Voice, released a statement noting that in 2007, DHS "fined only 17 employers for hiring undocumented workers." He added: "At least 7 million immigrants in the U.S. are employed illegally by a total of 6 million U.S. businesses, and DHS can find only 17 companies to fine?"
Enthusiasts of these kinds of crackdowns argue that they'll shrink the labor pool and help American workers. But the hundreds who continue working in the Postville plant today remain unprotected and are much further away from the kind of union representation that might have led to some decent pay, some dignity. And it's hard to imagine an experience that could give Agriprocessors more incentive to keep hiring "illegals."
That's what makes the approach so fruitless. Cesar Jochol, a native of Guatemala who runs a small market in Postville, told the Post, "You take away a hundred people. A couple hundred more will come tomorrow."
That's what workplace-based immigration enforcement without deeper reform looks like.
Postsville and the Politics of Distraction
The Postville raid came at an opportune time not only for the plant's owners, but also for the Bush administration. The same week, a series of high-profile media reports by 60 Minutes and the Washington Post -- as well as the New York Times -- began focusing public attention on America's nightmarish system of immigration "detention centers."
Two weeks earlier, as the New York Times' Nina Bernstein reported, a group of former detainees had sued Michael Chertoff for putting "hundreds of thousands of people a year in substandard and inconsistent conditions while the government decides whether to deport them, leaving them subject to inadequate medical care and abuse."
Activists charged that the Bush administration staged the raid to draw attention from those stories, a strategy it is well known to employ when critical attention threatens its policies.
It's impossible to know whether that was the case, but clearly DHS and the administration would prefer to have eyes trained on images of ICE agents "enforcing the law" than on the investigation into America's detention practices conducted by the Washington Post and 60 Minutes.
The investigation uncovered "life, death and often shabby medical care within an unseen network of special prisons for foreign detainees across the country," as health care was routinely denied to immigrants being held by ICE. "The medical neglect they endure," wrote Dana Priest and Amy Goldstein in The Post, "is part of the hidden human cost of increasingly strict policies in the post-Sept. 11 United States and a lack of preparation for the impact of those policies."
The reporters -- the same team that uncovered the shabby care that veterans face at Walter Reed Medical Center -- unearthed internal documents showing that ICE officials have "a tendency to conceal the truth by withholding complete medical records or by offering misleading public explanations." The documents they found revealed a pattern of what can only be called grievous human rights violations. (The U.N. has condemned the United States' immigrant detention system, saying that it "denies migrants basic due process and human rights, and violates international law.")
Among the cases intentionally covered up by ICE officials was that of Francisco Castaneda, who arrived in the United States as a refugee from El Salvador when he was 10 years old. Before his mother could get legal papers for her son, she died of cancer. Castaneda had lived in the United States for 24 years when he was detained by ICE.
When he was taken into custody, Castaneda had a bleeding lesion on his penis, which medical personnel suspected to be cancer. They requested a biopsy, "but the Division of Immigration Health Services headquarters in Washington denied the procedure for 10 months." During that time, Castaneda was given ibuprofen to deal with the growing lesion. "I am in a considerable amount of pain and I am in desperate need of medical attention," he wrote in June of 2006. After pressure from the ACLU, the agency finally scheduled a biopsy for February of 2007, but Castaneda was suddenly released just "days before the surgery, sparing the agency the cost." Shortly thereafter, Castaneda's penis was amputated. Despite undergoing chemotherapy, he died a year later.
According to the Los Angeles Times, a federal judge ruled that Castaneda's treatment was "beyond cruel and unusual" punishment. Timothy T. Shack, head of health care for ICE, said, "In my opinion, the care provided to this detainee was ... timely and appropriate."
The Post also told the story of Joseph Dantica, a Baptist minister from Haiti who fled the country after receiving death threats from a local gang. Dantica, 81 years old, entered the United States with a valid visa and applied for asylum. ICE detained him along with his son, pending the resolution of their cases. Sickly and speaking through a voice box, Dantica complained of ill health, but ICE officials said he was "faking his symptoms." The minister was denied visits by family members, who begged ICE officials to give him the medicine he required. He died five days after landing in Miami, in an infamous immigration prison in Florida.
Both the New York Times and the Washington Post featured stories in recent weeks about dozens of deaths in ICE custody. The Times’ Nina Bernstein told the story of Boubacar Bah, "a 52-year-old tailor from Guinea who had overstayed a tourist visa" and subsequently died in ICE custody. His relatives "never saw the internal records labeled 'proprietary information -- not for distribution' by the Corrections Corporation of America, which runs the New Jersey detention center for the federal government," Bernstein wrote. "The documents detail how he was treated by guards and government employees: shackled and pinned to the floor of the medical unit as he moaned and vomited, then left in a disciplinary cell for more than 13 hours, despite repeated notations that he was unresponsive and intermittently foaming at the mouth."
The Post's investigative team also found that the "U.S. government has injected hundreds of foreigners it has deported with dangerous psychotropic drugs against their will to keep them sedated during the trip back to their home country." Involuntary drugging of "detainees, unless there is a medical justification, is a violation of some international human rights codes," the Post noted.
Taken together, these and other reports paint a picture of a system that treats immigrants to the United States -- and not just "illegal" immigrants -- as subhuman. That's what enforcement absent real reform looks like.
This is part one of a two-part series. Be sure to read the second installment tomorrow.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on May 21, 2008 12:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» one word: Relax!
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: one word: Relax!
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: one word: Relax!
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Family Values, Indeed!
Posted by: dsmidiman
» RE: Family Values, Indeed!
Posted by: Timba
» RE: Family Values, Indeed!
Posted by: dsmidiman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on May 21, 2008 1:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thats the way western europe handels it.
» RE: simplicity
Posted by: BCcovers
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opmoc on May 21, 2008 3:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More than 50% of the population of London is not of English origin.
Anyone who dares to challenge this policy is branded racist.
England is already far too overpopulated - but the Government wants us swamped with cheap labour.
I'm not in the slightest bit racist - and my friends represent a fair cross section of the local population - ie their ethnic origins are from all over the World.
But this policy is just complete lunacy.
Much of the immigration is legal - due to Eastern Europe joining the EU...
But it is just becoming completely ridiculous.
The situation is that as the rest of the World becomes poorer and poorer - due to overpopulation and Western exploitation the desire to move to a country perceived as being rich is overwhelming.
The process can only be halted, by ending the exploitation of the poor and encouraging education, development and birth control.
Otherwise current "rich" European and American culture will simply be overrun by weight of numbers.
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: You have no idea
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: You have no idea
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: please don't straw man me
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: Doubtom
» Not only Muslims
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: richholland
» Lies, damned lies and statistics
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Lies, damned lies and statistics
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Lies, damned lies and statistics
Posted by: John Annis
» The agenda is the same in the U.K. and U.S.
Posted by: blogbooks
» So I am accused of being a Racist - but my accuser knows nothing about me whatsoever
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: So I am accused of being a Racist - but my accuser knows nothing about me whatsoever
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com Thanks For Your Reply
Posted by: opmoc
» Oh - And I Think It Was The Young Guy Who Looks Like A Rastafarian Who Scored The Winning Goal
Posted by: opmoc
» If You Are American You Won't Realise That Tonight's Event Was Seen Live By BILLIONS Of People
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: it's worse than you think
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The agenda is the same in the U.K. and U.S.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» It's history--get over it!
Posted by: ikonoklast
» Great Post Thank You nm
Posted by: opmoc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marchpet on May 21, 2008 3:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: richholland
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: Dakota64
» I love East Boston
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: froghat
» It is You Who are Filled With Hatred
Posted by: ot
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: Doubtom
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Baal_Labs on May 21, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Simplicity
Posted by: richholland
» In theory -- but things aren't always simple
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: In theory -- but things aren't always simple
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: In theory -- but things aren't always simple
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» 84gawker
Posted by: jbwestwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: blogbooks on May 21, 2008 4:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since, you know, you hate when the laws of the United States are enforced, our borders secured, and our sovereignty maintained.
Just what is your agenda anyway?
» RE: I think I should sign up for a career in law enforcement
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I think I should sign up for a career in law enforcement
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: I think I should sign up for a career in law enforcement
Posted by: TERRIROBSON
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 21, 2008 5:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Other readers should know that this doesn't accurately reflect my approach.
» RE: clarification
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on May 21, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe you missed it when I mentioned a federal agent checked me out (buying beer, just thinking about it makes me want to start drinking beer, too early in the day so we will make this quick) at the local drug store.
Since I blog lots of people check me out, but his guy was different. His look told me he wanted to kill me. In less than a week, if I remember correctly - check my previous comments, that's why I blog, the ICE roundups started. The license on his car said ICE MAN. His look told me he was a murderer.
Josh, thanks for the story. I look forward to tomorrow's installment. Good job!
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Old Skeptic on May 21, 2008 12:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also agree that we should punish those who hire illegal aliens. Start with some significant fines and if the violation recurs, some jail time for the CEOs.
The availability of a method for checking the validity of worker's IDs is also necessary. Only someone who has never known anyone who was the victim of identity theft would consider it a "victimless crime". Illegal aliens who steal Americans' IDs should go to jail, like any other crook.
» RE: false dichotomies
Posted by: froghat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: citizenjoe on May 21, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) The American state is treating foreigners as inferior human beings (like the Jews)-- not given basic human rights. This is American supremacism. National supremacism is a central element of fascism, as are special police and persecution under arbitrary laws.
2) The arbitrary application of draconian laws to peaceful members of our society who are foreigners applies as well to all citizens-- how are these police to know who is and who is not a citizen until after they have been thrown into camps without council or rights? - So this can happen to anyone that the American Gestapo is to told to capture, for any reason whatever-- don't like their looks, don't like their politics, for example.
Fascism friends, fascism.
» An overreach, even for you
Posted by: brunowe
» Not supremacism? Distorting the facts? Really?
Posted by: citizenjoe
» Yes you are
Posted by: brunowe
» I thought you were a bright guy
Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: I thought you were a bright guy
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: An overreach, even for you
Posted by: Lauren
» Well put!
Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: An overreach, even for you
Posted by: brunowe
» So, I am anti Semitic?
Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: uh, maybe not
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: uh, maybe not
Posted by: froghat
» RE: ICE the American Gestapo
Posted by: desidid
» But they're tryin'
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: But they're tryin'
Posted by: desidid
» Not so bad as Germany, but worse than Italy
Posted by: citizenjoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Dakota64 on May 21, 2008 5:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Allowing people Yes, Illegal Aliens, from any nationality to come here use our Citizen Services without paying into the system unless they have stolen or false identities is wrong. The only tax that is legitimately paid is the sales taxes that exist in each state. These workers are hired for one simple reason. They cost less to employers! Yes, they are hard working people. Yes, the overwhelming majority are good people and only want to improve the lives of their families. Yes, these employers shoul be heavily sanctioned. Sadly, they have no right to come here and undercut wages and put American Citizens out of work. They also do not have the right to jump ahead of all those who apply legally for citizenship. For those who say " They do jobs Americans won't do. " That's right they do. Because employers are not offering a reasonable wage to an American Citizen.It is called " The American Dream." No dream can flourish unless it is sought after with integrity. As for the children, I agree it is sad and should be handled better. But, it should be handled. To use your logic a woman could hop the fence in your back yard and give birth. There by making you reasponsible for the care of the child for the rest of his or her life. When Pro-Illegal people start doing this, I will rethink my logic.
» Exactly, Americans won't do meat packing for sub-minimum wage
Posted by: blogbooks
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mexitli on May 21, 2008 5:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too many workers chasing too few visas.
The U.S. needs the workers.
Mexico and Centram countries has them.
But the U.S. immigration policies are stuck in the 40's.
Google this:
Jason Riley "Let Them In" The Case For Open Borders
There simply arent enough LEGAL ways for these workers to immigrate so that they can work legally.
» RE: We Need More Work Visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Something has to happen
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Something has to happen
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Correct, but
Posted by: citizenjoe
» But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I've looked into immigration regulations to other countries...
Posted by: blogbooks
» I think Agriprocessors Might Be Hiring
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I think Agriprocessors Might Be Hiring
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Same Boat.
Posted by: Dakota64
» RE: I've looked into immigration regulations to other countries...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice?
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice? Josh, NO it doesn't!
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice? Josh, NO it doesn't!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: Josh, NO it doesn't!: Your'e kidding
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: Josh, NO it doesn't!: Your'e kidding
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas. Because there may not be
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas. Because there may not be
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas.: No cutsies??
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas.: No cutsies??
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Dakota64 on May 21, 2008 5:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: froghat
» I am going to repeat myself here, because I want everyone to know the simple truth of the matter.
Posted by: blogbooks
» I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree, but
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: I am going to repeat myself here, because I want everyone to know the simple truth of the matter.
Posted by: froghat
» RE: I am going to repeat myself here, because I want everyone to know the simple truth of the matter
Posted by: SamFox
» Yes, we have to learn Spanish to be employed, while illegals are catered to in their native language
Posted by: stilldreaming
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cybershaman on May 21, 2008 6:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Halliburton has already built 'tent prisons' in Texas to hold 12 million people. Like the above poster said, it won't be Jews this time but Mexicans! These camps will become overcrowded and eventually we will be spending more money on healthcare for these people than we want to and then we will stop and disease will spread and we'll have to do something drastic and...
See, that's the problem, once you get this train moving down the track it's hard to control where it's heading. Because we rely on stereotypes to understand what happened in Germany we run the risk of creating the same phenomena without realizing it. They used the issue of 'illegal immigrants' to label the Roma and the Jews as 'criminals' just as we are doing.
With a twelve year wait for a visa, the legitimate way to enter this country is a cruel joke ... especially if you're not white! Stop demonizing these people and realize that we have to solve this problem in a respectful manner. When you base your solutions on a general contempt of a population, nothing good can come out of it.
» The effects will be marginal
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: The effects will be marginal
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: conomic Refugees!
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: conomic Refugees!
Posted by: froghat
» The United States treats its own people the same way
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: picabia on May 21, 2008 6:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Postville represents a profound cultural collision between the Chabad Hasidim from Crown Heights in Brooklyn, who acquired the plant in the late 1980's, and the gentile community in which it is located. The practice of facilitating "documentation" was, from the beginning, a routine part of the process of acquiring (grossly underpaid) workers for the slaughterhouse floor. The practice has obviously continued unabated for many years now, as the size of the plant grew to its present size, to include Mexicans and Guatemalans as well as the Russians and Eastern Europeans who were the mainstay of Agriprocessors's workforce since the beginning.
Postville also represents a variation on an old theme: the limits of the melting pot vs. the challenge presented by people who do not want to fit in except on their own terms. Given the Lubavitcher disdain for all things and persons non-Hasidic, your comparison, citizenjoe, is more perversely apposite than you know.
This back-story here has not been touched (yet) either here at AlterNet or elsewhere.
The must-read is Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America by Stephen B. Bloom (Harcourt 2000.)
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Rubashkin family crime syndicate
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: jleman
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scientz on May 21, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The colleague in question is a young black woman, intellectually gifted, valedictorian of her high school, middle-to-upper-middle class upbringing. I had first met her in a first-year political science class, and it was clear she was headed to a large firm on Bay Street (the Canadian version of Wall Street).
We've had several classes together over the past few years, and we routinely have conversations about each other's respective progress through the school system, grades, et cetera.
Upon running into her yesterday, she confessed that while she was finishing her undergrad in a mere three years, she had also given up her dream of becoming a Bay Street lawyer for a career working in social justice and neighborhood housing.
She related the following quote: "I'll tell you though, working with the community out in Rexdale (imagine a Brownsville, Brooklyn to downtown Toronto's Manhattan) has taught me lessons in racial tolerance that I'd never thought I'd have to learn. I talk to fifty and sixty year old Anglo-Saxons who've lived there since it was a village, and they still blame the crime and the change in the neighborhood demographic on the Italians and Portuguese who arrived in the 60s. The thing is though, I talk to Italians and Portuguese who blame the (Caribbean) blacks, and blacks who blame the Chinese and Tamils."
Toronto is the most multicultural city on the planet, and yet, here was unavoidable anecdotal evidence of the difficulty this diversity sometimes has in getting along with one another.
Perhaps we all have a little knee-jerk racist in us--it only bubbles to the surface easier in some than others.
I'm not sure there are easy answers to this "problem".
» Your comment is completely off topic
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Your comment is completely off topic
Posted by: Scientz
» Far more than anecdotal !
Posted by: Last Chance
» Does Canada . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Does Canada . . .
Posted by: Last Chance
» Native Canadian loosing their territories
Posted by: stilldreaming
» I'm not sure about the whole resources . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» you presume AmeriKan solutions, should be Canadian challenge solutions...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wittler youth on May 21, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: 40 years "Harvest Of Shame"
Posted by: sausage
» RE: 40 years "Harvest Of Shame"
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: 40 years "Harvest Of Shame"
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on May 21, 2008 6:45 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Take all of these ILLEGAL ALIENS out of their comfy camp and put them behind bars with no cots and one meal a day, then ship them, their family and all who aided and abetted them during their criminal stay here back to wherever they came from. That includes those who gave money to Chet (you big lug) and his lugnuts! Send them all packing outside the US!" ML144
"Agriporcessors who allegedly knew these persons were illegal should pay for the illegals' legal bills. It's important that those who stole ID's are imprisoned before deportation. After their families including anchor babies are expelled, all properties of the illegals should be confiscated.
"Of course, the executivies of Agriprocessors who knowingly aided and abetted the breaking of federal laws should also be imprisoned after their properties are confiscated.
"The church who knowingly got involved in a political situation - property gone and priest arrested. Any landlords who rented to someone they knew to be illegal, property confiscated and them arrested. Same with realtors.
"Does it sound like I am fed up? I think voters nationwide are tired of the games and the lies. Ignore us at your peril." missdorothy
"These ILLEGALS are more than welcome to take their children with them back home. Enough money is being spent to deport them, I don't want to foot the bills for the children until they're 18." IowaNinersFan
"what really should be done is added border security. I'm talking more guards, land mines, machine gun nests, electrical fences, you name it-basically turn the border into a no-man's land. BUT that will never be a reality unfortunately because so many people take the side of criminals today" Avalanche719
The Des Moines Register.com
What's really amazing about this random sampling of posts is the commenters above, and their likeminded ilk, monopolize The Register discussion board. I know, I regularly read and post at The Register myself. But even though I'm disabled and retired, I have to walk away from the computer once in a while. It, however, seems that the reactionary right, like rust, never sleeps.
Such Attitudes,as the above, are a poison crippling this country, much to our own peril. The United States and its citizens is in all probability the most hated nation in the world.
Last March I was in Monterrey, Mexico enjoying a beer at the Cuauhtemoc Moctezuma Brewery, practicing my baby Spanish on a gentleman, his wife and sister-in-law, and he asked me if I were a Canadian? It didn't dawn on me until later why the fellow thought I was Canadian. Perhaps the fellow knew more English than he was letting on? Then again, more of them in the wider world can read and speak English than we Americans can read, let alone speak any other language outside our bastardized dialect.
Our willful American ignornace of the outside world is quickly hardening into stupidity; the actions of the stupid often result in injury to himself and others.
» Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: sausage
» Don't play dumb !
Posted by: Last Chance
» Why? Because your are?
Posted by: sausage
» Clueless
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: here we go again.....
Posted by: sausage
» Take it up with the Pope!
Posted by: sausage
» Again! Intelligent Discussion.
Posted by: Dakota64
» Where did you find this?
Posted by: sausage
» Mmmmhmmm
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: countingdaisies
» The above comment is at "blogbooks" . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: The above comment is at "blogbooks" . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» Nope, you're going to have to use your big boy words...
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Nope, you're going to have to use your big boy words...
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: The above comment is at "blogbooks" . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HBoyer on May 21, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and tax payers.
Free Medical, welfare, reduce wages, carry diseases, criminal activity, free schooling for their children, most do not have high school diplomas.
Deport them and prosecute the employers to the limit.
If we fail to do this, we will become a 3rd world country like the ones the illegal Aliens came from.
» You're barking up the wrong tree
Posted by: lefty010
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 21, 2008 7:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many appear to be content with any law-enforcement policy that lends the appearance of addressing the situation. Never mind if it's ineffective, disproportionate, if human rights or domestic U.S. law is violated, if huge amounts of money are wasted, etc. As long as there's a good show that makes it appear that the government is "getting touch on illegals" then that;s all that matters.
Again, not saying this is always the case, but I see a lot of it in the comments. If I were an immigration restrictionist and I truly wanted to see their numbers reduced, I would look at the current enforcement model used in the U.S. as a hopeless policy for achieving my goals.
» The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: sausage
» RE: The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: desidid
» RE: An observation
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: An observation
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on May 21, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The story was not very good...it focused on how people do not get good medical care in these detention facilities and some die. They never answered the question of why all these people were in such a detention center in the first place. These were not necessarily illegals, one was coming here from Hatti after being granted political asylum but as soon as he got off the plane he was arrested and put in a detention center then died due to lack of medical care.
The story barely touched on the fact that these detention centers were a "secret prison system few Americans knew anything about."
Regardless of your position on immigration, legal and illegal, this seemed way off base.
Are these the detention centers built by Halliburton? How long are people kept there?
America has really sunk if a man granted political asylum is arrested as soon as he steps off the plane then thrown in a huge prison where he dies within a week due to neglect.
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on May 21, 2008 8:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would love to read the flip-side of this story to find out how legal workers are treated and if they think their working conditions would improve if they weren't forced to work with illegal immigrants? I'm sure we will never know that side of the story because it conflicts with the purpose of these stories, to propagandize the pro-immigrant stance. But take it from someone who has worked with illegals they don't have a common interest in making the workplace better while there is a legal worker in sight. It is completely counter-productive to them having jobs in the first place. What would be the rational for one of these employers to hire illegals who worked with legal workers to improve working conditions? There isn't any, and no amount of sad stories will change that fact.
» RE: National Labor Board
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: National Labor Board
Posted by: desidid
» horses lose out too when illegals take jobs
Posted by: stilldreaming
Comments are closed-
» Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Is that why you deleted thoughtcriminal's account?
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Alex Hidell on May 21, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
REX84 (Readiness Exercise 1984)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
These plans were always using immigrants as the front with the real goal being detention of political opposition, as during the Nixon era Huston Plan (Tom Huston of DOD in Nixon's White House drew up the plans).
Huston Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Plan
God only knows and the brave only ask what plans are being or have been made by the Bush administration.
» RE: The followup to REX84 and martial law. Ollie North's old op
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 21, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Just curious, but . . .
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Just curious, but . . .
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua.
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua. Hi again
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua. Hi again
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua. Hi again. Going to a bit of extreme?
Posted by: SamFox
» Mormons don't vote for their favorite politicians, Illegal immigrants do
Posted by: blogbooks
» Their anchor babies grow up and can vote
Posted by: blogbooks
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PostvilleGuy on May 21, 2008 8:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The allegations are, surprisingly, ALLEGATIONS. Saying that AP reported that the company withheld money, or didn't allow employees to use the bathroom is LIBEL. They may have reported this as allegations, but I don't believe AP reported this as fact. None of these media reporters have done a shred of investigative, or even honest, journalism.
They prefer copy/pasting from government documents, or other allegations. None of them took a real hard look at any of these allegations. The affidavit is full of self-contradictions, hearsay, and shocking ignorance of a production environment.
Joshua Holland - you have misrepresented the facts and presumed guilt... way to go journalism!
» But, isn't it sensational? And doesn't it whip up racial issues?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 21, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unbelievable. Deleting comments like crazy - and this is "indymedia"? This is a bad joke.
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Let's review some prior posts, shall we - on safe topics, yes?
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Let's review some prior posts, shall we - on safe topics, yes?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely Not the only one
Posted by: ailicec
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account...say what, ailicec?
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: To Be Fair To Alternet - The Job of a Moderator is Extremely Difficult
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: To Be Fair To Alternet - The Job of a Moderator is Extremely Difficult
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: To Be Fair To Alternet - The Job of a Moderator is Extremely Difficult
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» It's Still 1-1
Posted by: opmoc
» Manchester United Beat Chelsea 6-5 On Penalties After 1-1 After Extra Time To Win The European Cup
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Delete THIS!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Delete THIS!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lefty010 on May 21, 2008 9:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to say the it is very difficult to digest the brutality of the comments that have been posted here. I don't know how many of you have seen the movie or read the book "Fast Food Nation" but all of the Americans who think being an "illegal" is some fabulous, wonder-filled position to be in, you are woefully wrong. I know how pointless it is to appeal to people's emotions on these comment pages (although this is a very emotional subject) but these are HUMAN BEINGS.
Nobody would willing endure what many of the "illegals" suffer. These men and women are sons, daughters, wives, husbands, brothers and sister, mothers and fathers.They deserve consideration for that.
The anger toward "illegals" is misdirected. Focus that anger toward the policy makers and global organizations THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEM. "Illegals" are certainly not the genesis of the immigration problem. To continue to vilify them for the situation with the hopes that such hatred will somehow solve the problem is an exercise in futility.
Do some research and start demanding that U.S. policy makers stop supporting policy that CAUSES "illegal" immigration.
"Illegals" suffer just as much as Americans (maybe in different ways and more so)from the GLOBAL policy that fosters illegal immigration. Our country SUPPORTS such POLICY.
Maybe it would be helpful for all parties concerned to redirect all of the anger into more productive directions.
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people, Amen!
Posted by: CJC
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people, Amen!
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people: Nope. Not saying
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people: I agree some of what your post says....
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CJC on May 21, 2008 9:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Feds have a raid, take the illegals away, lock them up (at great public expense), deport them, whatever. Then after a while the corporation hires more illegals.
Meanwhile unions have been greatly weakened over the years and most workers have no one to support their interests. Anyone with better choices won't work for poor wages and no benefits. Others who feel resentful because good jobs are scarce get angry and take their hostility out on the illegal aliens.
Thus is brewed a toxic xenophobia. Working people suffer and the corporations have huge profits and support the politicians with big donations and the situation gets worse and worse. While those on the lower end of the socio-economic heap beat up on one another the rich are getting richer.
Eventually, the system will collapse or enough Americans will understand what's going on and insist on changes that will give more rights and more income to those in the lower half of the income distribution. We have the most lopsided income distribution of any industrialized country. This is obviously untenable. The illegal aliens are not a cause of these problems but also victims of it.
» RE: Victims of corporatocracy beating up on each other
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Victims of corporatocracy beating up on each other
Posted by: CJC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: blogbooks on May 21, 2008 9:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is not a topic most Americans can discuss rationally at this point. It is a hot button topic and people are very much divided one way or the other.
I think that plays in favor of the elites and stops any sort of real reform from happening. It has become an issue like gun control, abortion, etc. Americans are at an impasse and that means the status quo will continue unmolested.
» RE: So now that I've actually read the story...It's called
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: So now that I've actually read the story...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: So now that I've actually read the story...Lauren, could you be
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lefty010 on May 21, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You said in the comments (and I can't find it now) that you think that this type of immigration comes in waves and that eventually people may get homesick or find opportunity in their homeland and return.
I would agree that returning home may have been a previous trend, but do you think the same still holds true now that corporate criminals--who now operate at a global level--may have permanently removed opportunities that would have otherwise existed in peoples' home countries?
It's very complicated because as I'm typing this I am thinking about how the American worker has also been seriously harmed by globalization. If Americans are feeling the pinch (punch)then what real opportunities are there for people who barely had an existence before globalization?
» RE: What do you think?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» There is an answer -
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: There is an answer -
Posted by: desidid
» RE: What do you think?
Posted by: lefty010
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters on May 21, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like I said I could rant on however why bother. The "open border" kids minds are being numb from there College. They will learn the hard way with higher taxes and less services.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: non-person on May 21, 2008 10:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must emplace very high tariff boundaries to capital flows, in other words.
This will prevent U.S. manufacturers from outsourcing jobs to Mexico and China where labor is cheaper, because they would have to operate as a Mexican company to do so, and then they would be taxed and regulated by the Mexican government.
It would also prevent the flood of cheap U.S. subsidized corn imports into Mexico that has resulted in the northward flood of immigrants. Hey - I like these people, to tell you the truth. Anyone who can cross the Sonoran desert on foot - that's the kind of initiative and spirit that has made America great.
For a discussion of NAFTA and SPP and immigration, check out this: From NAFTA to the SPP: Here comes the Security and Prosperity Partnership, but—what security? whose prosperity?
Katherine Sciacchitano
Quote:
"Which is closer to your vision of North America?
Vision A: Three interdependent countries with vibrant social movements, respect for labor rights, and environmentally sustainable economies anchored in provision of social needs and respect for cultural autonomy?
Or Vision B: An unequal alliance dominated by the United States, complete with pumped up oil and gas production, increasing militarization, corporate transnational planning groups, and guest worker programs to ensure cheap, vulnerable labor?"
» RE: Immigration is a good thing - just not for dollars.
Posted by: Last Chance
» Oh, that's too funny
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Immigration is a good thing - just not for dollars.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Immigration is a good thing - but only if
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ciccio on May 21, 2008 10:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Illegal immigration can be stopped overnight???
Posted by: Last Chance
» Can, but won't. None of the elites have any interest in stopping it.
Posted by: blogbooks
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opmoc on May 21, 2008 10:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now who are these people - and where did they originate from?
Where are they now - and exactly what are they doing?
Will they succeed?
What will they do if they achieve their objectives?
Are such discussions allowed on Alternet?
Will Americans save us from them?
The World may not actually be as it appears, because the image projected is the image you are supposed to see.
» RE: The Origins of World Government
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: The Origins of World Government
Posted by: opmoc
» Local Sovereignty and Mutual Respect = Global Peace
Posted by: Last Chance
» Of course, these are not competing power blocs being set up
Posted by: blogbooks
» Alternet deleted thoughtcriminal's account today, opmoc.
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Alternet deleted thoughtcriminal's account today, opmoc.
Posted by: opmoc
» Incidentally thoughtcriminal (non-person)
Posted by: opmoc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nomomorons on May 21, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God help us.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: citizenjoe on May 21, 2008 12:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Yesh, in Germany persecution
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nomomorons on May 21, 2008 12:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our Congressman, John Carter, actually backed the conversion of this prison into the baby-jail that it is, in cooperation with the corporation raking in a killing on this outrageous, immoral operation. Check out the profits for Corrections Corporation of American (CCA),which currently has a totally incompetent director/attorney being considered for a Federal judgeship, courtesy of our current president. And maybe some help from Mr. Carter.)
Welcome to Bush's Brave New World of Corrupt Corporate Control!
Raise some hell over this, please!
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on May 21, 2008 1:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, where will Americans go? Can we go to Germany, Canada, or Australia? Canada will be the easist to flee to, with the long border. Perhaps Canada will decide, however, to put troops and vigilantes on its border. Kind of like the USA does now with Mexico. Escaping Americans will have to go through the woods with no food or water and walk for days. Goons and RCMP police will shoot at them or arrest and depart them.
Americans even visiting France or Germany, will, of course, all need to be fingerprinted and photographed at the border. They will have to show proof that they intend to return to the USA by showing a return plane ticket. Some, who look suspicious (or are "dark skinned") will, of course, need to be interrogated in back rooms as they may be "terrorists," or worse, plan to stay in the country illegally and indefinetly.
Just wait for the "worm to turn" America. How you treat the people of the world now is how you will be treated.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chlamor on May 21, 2008 1:19 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And for dessert a little low-fat imperialism:
Consider.
Immigration is essentially driven by America's OWN grievously immoral, underhanded, fraudulent and criminal actions under a policy of neo-liberal exploitation that has occasioned massive theft, political intrigue and election-tampering, coups, propping-up of corrupt dictators and brutal autocrats, blackmail, assassinations and death-squads, institutionalized terrorism, IMF/WTO/World Bank-imposed privatization and 'restructuring' and subsidized agricultural exports that have displaced huge numbers of small farmers, 'drug-war' skullduggery and forced de-funding of critical social services and public infrastructure -- the concept of 'illegal immigration' falls-apart. It is actually economic and political self-defense.
Illegal immigration is a wedge issue primarily because most Americans are ignorant about, in denial, or unwilling to face the fact that America has taken outrageous advantage of and abused the basic civil and human rights of Latin American citizens in order to prop-up America's bloated standard of living and overextended debt. The principles of rule of law governing allowable and acceptable economic trade practices and respecting the sovereignty of foreign nations have been consistently violated by America's appeal to its imaginary sense of exceptionalism -- which constitutes a huge nationalistic blind spot.
Americans in general tend to be astonishingly uninformed and misinformed about genuine history and the real consequences of American foreign policy-- thanks in large part to its disingenuous mass media and the co-opted public education industry. For all the popular rhetoric about America's National pride, honor and sense of values, and championing the causes of freedom, peace and justice, to a very large extent the American public is clueless about how hypocritical and self-serving the US has been, and how complicit they are by not holding their leaders and policymakers accountable for America's devastating Imperialist pretensions.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chlamor on May 21, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's as if they think racism (or any of the other oppressions) is necessarily a CONSCIOUS construct: "I really don't like black people, immigrants etc. -- I think they're inferior, so let's not fund the levees and then someday they may die."
No, perhaps the worst, but certainly the most intransigent aspect of racism is the part based on SUBconscious or even UNconscious beliefs that there are people who simply don't count as much, for whatever reason. But the funny thing is, those people tend overwhelmingly to fall into the oppressed groups. "Oh, it's only black folk (so who cares?)," or "Oh, it's only poor folk (who are lazy and therefore deserve what they get) and old people (past their prime and useless) anyway."
The US is a nation born of genocide, suckled on slavery, and weaned on apartheid, and the weaning process has been largely confined to a bottle at board meetings.
And as someone else mentioned, maybe here, maybe elsewhere, the sin, in the eyes of the white and affluent, is not the racism itself, but being reminded of it.
To be fair, it is so deeply ingrained that most do not even realize it, and their indignation is quite sincere when they insist that they are not a bit racist.
» RE: A word about racism as relates...
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: A word about racism as relates...Racism sucks. It is a stupid
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SOWILO on May 21, 2008 1:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they say it's the best
And we all helped make it
It's called the Death of the West
the kids from Fame will all be there
Free cocacola for you!
And all the monkeys from the zoo
Will they be extras too?
They're making the last film
they say it's the best
And we all helped make it
It's called the Death of the West
A star is rising in our northern sky
And on it we're crucified
A chain of gold is wrapped around this world
We're ruled by those who lie
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SamFox on May 21, 2008 3:42 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is typically of leftist liberals. The only free speech they want is theirs. The only point of view they can hear or see is theirs.
I did not curse, defame or post hate sites. I do not hate illegals. I do wish they would stop invading the USA. All my links were to sites that show the illegal immigration problem is worse than indicated in the lead story. If you are not going to allow an honest debate at least have the integrity to say so!!
SamFox
SamFox
» RE: Why were my post deleted?
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: Why were my post deleted?
Posted by: genderless
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on May 21, 2008 3:57 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it comes to treatment of its "illegal" or undocumented humans, the results have been dismal: people dying in captivity, mothers taken away from their children, habeas corpus suspended, and reports of torture, drugging often put fear into these people.
ICE can conduct all the raids it wants, but it will not deter people from wanting to do America's dirty work; a MBA person wouldn't dare set foot inside a meat packing plant nor work as janitors or any other kind of low-paying job.
An argument would go that ICE raids are necessary and are "enforcing" the "law", but this misses the purpose: these raids are only to intimidate others and to appease the "law and order" sect. The detainees aren't housed in Malibu-type rehab centers, so you can bet these detention facilities are as bad an Los Angeles or a Third World jail.
Life in this country isn't supposed to be like this-a 3.6 million plus square mile penal colony with an electronic fence on the southern border with armed to the teeth border patrol squad. As we have seen in Oklahoma, kicking out nearly all the undocumented or guest workers-Gastarbeiter-will wreck havoc in your economy.
For now, let's stop these ICE raids and just put them on ice.
» RE: ICEd Out: Better yet, do as
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: stilldreaming on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just for balance. Just wondering. And don't withold the gorry details of crimes committed by illegals. Just so we don't get the wrong impression that only US is big and bad and racist etc, and the "poor" immigrants are so innocent, so wronged, always treated badly.
I do not deny that US needs to regulate abuses by officers, police etc, or that police and immigration themselves need to follow US law, and IMO torture has absolutely no place in US law.
» RE: Will Alternet publish stories about crimes committed by illegal immigrants? No.
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Will Alternet research&publish stories about crimes committed by illegal immigrants?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Will Alternet research; Yo Josh, then why were
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SOWILO on May 21, 2008 5:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» LoL
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: LoL
Posted by: SOWILO
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on May 21, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
tell me honestly, do really feel safer since these clowns where put in charge of the Homeland [sounds precariously like fatherland and a Nazi-state] or are they like how I see them... part of the problem [ala Gestapo] and exacerbating it instead of finding a true solution!
dammit people... just how many layers of policing do you need anyways...
cant you sheeple see these things for what they are... GRAFT MACHINES for politicals freinds and associates...
always follow the money... see where it comes from and illuminate the funding at its source...
that would make eliminating all the shit that this illegal cash funds so much easier now wouldn't it!
reduce the costs to the GDP by streamlining medical care and its costs to productivity as a healthy workforce is a working workforce... at the same time bring all citizens into care coverage... this WILL ensure that all people WILL BE PROPERLY IDENTIFIED, possibly ending the problem with voter fraud as well
end the black market... bringing all goods and services into the mainstream will de-fund terrorism and organized criminal activities.
This will also eliminate the need for the corporate prison complexes and the vast numbers of incarcerated people which are their primarily to work as slave laborers, and cutting incomes to actual working families who in turn feed the economies of multiple countries...
its a vicious cycle but through good leadership it can be salvaged!
to many Chiefs... not enough Indians... and way to many handouts
» 84gawker
Posted by: jbwestwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: genderless on May 21, 2008 7:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ailicec on May 21, 2008 7:31 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great article, and I'm very grateful to Joshua Holland for having the courage to speak up on this. Ever since I first read about the raid in Iowa, I've been asking myself if ICE's timing was just coincidence or purposely convenient.
"Agriprocessor's management must have been pleased with the timing of the raid. Not only did it put at least a crimp in the ongoing investigations of serious allegations of abuse by the company, it also derailed an effort by UFCW to organize the plants' workers and give them a shot at bargaining with management for better working conditions."
The company was being investigated for violations of CHILD LABOR LAWS, they had children as young as 13 working in the slaughterhouse.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jbwestwood on May 21, 2008 8:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you find admirable today's failed attempt by Senators Craig and Feinstein to attach (sneak is a more factual term) to the IRAQ war bill a provision for inviting more illegals into US farm labor? Puppets!
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 21, 2008 9:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
. . . Who is Wackenhut?
why should you care? ... they run privatized:
- prisons
- medical facilities
- psychiatric facilities
- support & security facilities
- data management of 'turn-key' style facilities...
- transport of persons between facilities...
Smash ICE Northwest Detention Center - docushort
& let's not forget, in the US, judges can invest in their prisons, too!
or, you can own prisons, & just BECOME a judge!
how wonderfully flexible...
with all those profits to be made, good job nobody gets left out!
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sicntired on May 21, 2008 10:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: macdon1 on May 21, 2008 10:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on May 21, 2008 12:36 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» one word: Relax!
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: one word: Relax!
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: one word: Relax!
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: Family Values, Indeed!
Posted by: dsmidiman
» RE: Family Values, Indeed!
Posted by: Timba
» RE: Family Values, Indeed!
Posted by: dsmidiman
Comments are closed-
Posted by: richholland on May 21, 2008 1:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thats the way western europe handels it.
» RE: simplicity
Posted by: BCcovers
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opmoc on May 21, 2008 3:11 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More than 50% of the population of London is not of English origin.
Anyone who dares to challenge this policy is branded racist.
England is already far too overpopulated - but the Government wants us swamped with cheap labour.
I'm not in the slightest bit racist - and my friends represent a fair cross section of the local population - ie their ethnic origins are from all over the World.
But this policy is just complete lunacy.
Much of the immigration is legal - due to Eastern Europe joining the EU...
But it is just becoming completely ridiculous.
The situation is that as the rest of the World becomes poorer and poorer - due to overpopulation and Western exploitation the desire to move to a country perceived as being rich is overwhelming.
The process can only be halted, by ending the exploitation of the poor and encouraging education, development and birth control.
Otherwise current "rich" European and American culture will simply be overrun by weight of numbers.
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: You have no idea
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: You have no idea
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: please don't straw man me
Posted by: marchpet
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: richholland
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: Doubtom
» Not only Muslims
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» RE: The UK is Overrun By Immigrants - Mass Immigration Is Unofficial Government Policy
Posted by: richholland
» Lies, damned lies and statistics
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Lies, damned lies and statistics
Posted by: John Annis
» RE: Lies, damned lies and statistics
Posted by: John Annis
» The agenda is the same in the U.K. and U.S.
Posted by: blogbooks
» So I am accused of being a Racist - but my accuser knows nothing about me whatsoever
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: So I am accused of being a Racist - but my accuser knows nothing about me whatsoever
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com Thanks For Your Reply
Posted by: opmoc
» Oh - And I Think It Was The Young Guy Who Looks Like A Rastafarian Who Scored The Winning Goal
Posted by: opmoc
» If You Are American You Won't Realise That Tonight's Event Was Seen Live By BILLIONS Of People
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: it's worse than you think
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The agenda is the same in the U.K. and U.S.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» It's history--get over it!
Posted by: ikonoklast
» Great Post Thank You nm
Posted by: opmoc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: marchpet on May 21, 2008 3:22 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: richholland
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: Dakota64
» I love East Boston
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: froghat
» It is You Who are Filled With Hatred
Posted by: ot
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
» RE: America at its worst
Posted by: Doubtom
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Baal_Labs on May 21, 2008 4:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Simplicity
Posted by: richholland
» In theory -- but things aren't always simple
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: In theory -- but things aren't always simple
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: In theory -- but things aren't always simple
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» 84gawker
Posted by: jbwestwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: blogbooks on May 21, 2008 4:24 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since, you know, you hate when the laws of the United States are enforced, our borders secured, and our sovereignty maintained.
Just what is your agenda anyway?
» RE: I think I should sign up for a career in law enforcement
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: I think I should sign up for a career in law enforcement
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: I think I should sign up for a career in law enforcement
Posted by: TERRIROBSON
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 21, 2008 5:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Other readers should know that this doesn't accurately reflect my approach.
» RE: clarification
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on May 21, 2008 10:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe you missed it when I mentioned a federal agent checked me out (buying beer, just thinking about it makes me want to start drinking beer, too early in the day so we will make this quick) at the local drug store.
Since I blog lots of people check me out, but his guy was different. His look told me he wanted to kill me. In less than a week, if I remember correctly - check my previous comments, that's why I blog, the ICE roundups started. The license on his car said ICE MAN. His look told me he was a murderer.
Josh, thanks for the story. I look forward to tomorrow's installment. Good job!
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Old Skeptic on May 21, 2008 12:31 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also agree that we should punish those who hire illegal aliens. Start with some significant fines and if the violation recurs, some jail time for the CEOs.
The availability of a method for checking the validity of worker's IDs is also necessary. Only someone who has never known anyone who was the victim of identity theft would consider it a "victimless crime". Illegal aliens who steal Americans' IDs should go to jail, like any other crook.
» RE: false dichotomies
Posted by: froghat
Comments are closed-
Posted by: citizenjoe on May 21, 2008 4:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1) The American state is treating foreigners as inferior human beings (like the Jews)-- not given basic human rights. This is American supremacism. National supremacism is a central element of fascism, as are special police and persecution under arbitrary laws.
2) The arbitrary application of draconian laws to peaceful members of our society who are foreigners applies as well to all citizens-- how are these police to know who is and who is not a citizen until after they have been thrown into camps without council or rights? - So this can happen to anyone that the American Gestapo is to told to capture, for any reason whatever-- don't like their looks, don't like their politics, for example.
Fascism friends, fascism.
» An overreach, even for you
Posted by: brunowe
» Not supremacism? Distorting the facts? Really?
Posted by: citizenjoe
» Yes you are
Posted by: brunowe
» I thought you were a bright guy
Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: I thought you were a bright guy
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: An overreach, even for you
Posted by: Lauren
» Well put!
Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: An overreach, even for you
Posted by: brunowe
» So, I am anti Semitic?
Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: uh, maybe not
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: uh, maybe not
Posted by: froghat
» RE: ICE the American Gestapo
Posted by: desidid
» But they're tryin'
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: But they're tryin'
Posted by: desidid
» Not so bad as Germany, but worse than Italy
Posted by: citizenjoe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Dakota64 on May 21, 2008 5:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Allowing people Yes, Illegal Aliens, from any nationality to come here use our Citizen Services without paying into the system unless they have stolen or false identities is wrong. The only tax that is legitimately paid is the sales taxes that exist in each state. These workers are hired for one simple reason. They cost less to employers! Yes, they are hard working people. Yes, the overwhelming majority are good people and only want to improve the lives of their families. Yes, these employers shoul be heavily sanctioned. Sadly, they have no right to come here and undercut wages and put American Citizens out of work. They also do not have the right to jump ahead of all those who apply legally for citizenship. For those who say " They do jobs Americans won't do. " That's right they do. Because employers are not offering a reasonable wage to an American Citizen.It is called " The American Dream." No dream can flourish unless it is sought after with integrity. As for the children, I agree it is sad and should be handled better. But, it should be handled. To use your logic a woman could hop the fence in your back yard and give birth. There by making you reasponsible for the care of the child for the rest of his or her life. When Pro-Illegal people start doing this, I will rethink my logic.
» Exactly, Americans won't do meat packing for sub-minimum wage
Posted by: blogbooks
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mexitli on May 21, 2008 5:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too many workers chasing too few visas.
The U.S. needs the workers.
Mexico and Centram countries has them.
But the U.S. immigration policies are stuck in the 40's.
Google this:
Jason Riley "Let Them In" The Case For Open Borders
There simply arent enough LEGAL ways for these workers to immigrate so that they can work legally.
» RE: We Need More Work Visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Something has to happen
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Something has to happen
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Correct, but
Posted by: citizenjoe
» But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: But it's also a question of the numbers of visas
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I've looked into immigration regulations to other countries...
Posted by: blogbooks
» I think Agriprocessors Might Be Hiring
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I think Agriprocessors Might Be Hiring
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Same Boat.
Posted by: Dakota64
» RE: I've looked into immigration regulations to other countries...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice?
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice? Josh, NO it doesn't!
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: No choice? Josh, NO it doesn't!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: Josh, NO it doesn't!: Your'e kidding
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas: Josh, NO it doesn't!: Your'e kidding
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas. Because there may not be
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas. Because there may not be
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: We Need More Work Visas.: No cutsies??
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: We Need More Work Visas.: No cutsies??
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Dakota64 on May 21, 2008 5:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Accurate Information
Posted by: froghat
» I am going to repeat myself here, because I want everyone to know the simple truth of the matter.
Posted by: blogbooks
» I understand exactly what you're saying and I agree, but
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: I am going to repeat myself here, because I want everyone to know the simple truth of the matter.
Posted by: froghat
» RE: I am going to repeat myself here, because I want everyone to know the simple truth of the matter
Posted by: SamFox
» Yes, we have to learn Spanish to be employed, while illegals are catered to in their native language
Posted by: stilldreaming
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Cybershaman on May 21, 2008 6:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Halliburton has already built 'tent prisons' in Texas to hold 12 million people. Like the above poster said, it won't be Jews this time but Mexicans! These camps will become overcrowded and eventually we will be spending more money on healthcare for these people than we want to and then we will stop and disease will spread and we'll have to do something drastic and...
See, that's the problem, once you get this train moving down the track it's hard to control where it's heading. Because we rely on stereotypes to understand what happened in Germany we run the risk of creating the same phenomena without realizing it. They used the issue of 'illegal immigrants' to label the Roma and the Jews as 'criminals' just as we are doing.
With a twelve year wait for a visa, the legitimate way to enter this country is a cruel joke ... especially if you're not white! Stop demonizing these people and realize that we have to solve this problem in a respectful manner. When you base your solutions on a general contempt of a population, nothing good can come out of it.
» The effects will be marginal
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: The effects will be marginal
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: conomic Refugees!
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: conomic Refugees!
Posted by: froghat
» The United States treats its own people the same way
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: picabia on May 21, 2008 6:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Postville represents a profound cultural collision between the Chabad Hasidim from Crown Heights in Brooklyn, who acquired the plant in the late 1980's, and the gentile community in which it is located. The practice of facilitating "documentation" was, from the beginning, a routine part of the process of acquiring (grossly underpaid) workers for the slaughterhouse floor. The practice has obviously continued unabated for many years now, as the size of the plant grew to its present size, to include Mexicans and Guatemalans as well as the Russians and Eastern Europeans who were the mainstay of Agriprocessors's workforce since the beginning.
Postville also represents a variation on an old theme: the limits of the melting pot vs. the challenge presented by people who do not want to fit in except on their own terms. Given the Lubavitcher disdain for all things and persons non-Hasidic, your comparison, citizenjoe, is more perversely apposite than you know.
This back-story here has not been touched (yet) either here at AlterNet or elsewhere.
The must-read is Postville: A Clash of Cultures in Heartland America by Stephen B. Bloom (Harcourt 2000.)
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Rubashkin family crime syndicate
Posted by: sausage
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: jleman
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Postville: Backstory
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Scientz on May 21, 2008 6:22 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The colleague in question is a young black woman, intellectually gifted, valedictorian of her high school, middle-to-upper-middle class upbringing. I had first met her in a first-year political science class, and it was clear she was headed to a large firm on Bay Street (the Canadian version of Wall Street).
We've had several classes together over the past few years, and we routinely have conversations about each other's respective progress through the school system, grades, et cetera.
Upon running into her yesterday, she confessed that while she was finishing her undergrad in a mere three years, she had also given up her dream of becoming a Bay Street lawyer for a career working in social justice and neighborhood housing.
She related the following quote: "I'll tell you though, working with the community out in Rexdale (imagine a Brownsville, Brooklyn to downtown Toronto's Manhattan) has taught me lessons in racial tolerance that I'd never thought I'd have to learn. I talk to fifty and sixty year old Anglo-Saxons who've lived there since it was a village, and they still blame the crime and the change in the neighborhood demographic on the Italians and Portuguese who arrived in the 60s. The thing is though, I talk to Italians and Portuguese who blame the (Caribbean) blacks, and blacks who blame the Chinese and Tamils."
Toronto is the most multicultural city on the planet, and yet, here was unavoidable anecdotal evidence of the difficulty this diversity sometimes has in getting along with one another.
Perhaps we all have a little knee-jerk racist in us--it only bubbles to the surface easier in some than others.
I'm not sure there are easy answers to this "problem".
» Your comment is completely off topic
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Your comment is completely off topic
Posted by: Scientz
» Far more than anecdotal !
Posted by: Last Chance
» Does Canada . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Does Canada . . .
Posted by: Last Chance
» Native Canadian loosing their territories
Posted by: stilldreaming
» I'm not sure about the whole resources . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» you presume AmeriKan solutions, should be Canadian challenge solutions...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wittler youth on May 21, 2008 6:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Ah, you've asked the right question. I have the answer.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: 40 years "Harvest Of Shame"
Posted by: sausage
» RE: 40 years "Harvest Of Shame"
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: 40 years "Harvest Of Shame"
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sausage on May 21, 2008 6:45 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Take all of these ILLEGAL ALIENS out of their comfy camp and put them behind bars with no cots and one meal a day, then ship them, their family and all who aided and abetted them during their criminal stay here back to wherever they came from. That includes those who gave money to Chet (you big lug) and his lugnuts! Send them all packing outside the US!" ML144
"Agriporcessors who allegedly knew these persons were illegal should pay for the illegals' legal bills. It's important that those who stole ID's are imprisoned before deportation. After their families including anchor babies are expelled, all properties of the illegals should be confiscated.
"Of course, the executivies of Agriprocessors who knowingly aided and abetted the breaking of federal laws should also be imprisoned after their properties are confiscated.
"The church who knowingly got involved in a political situation - property gone and priest arrested. Any landlords who rented to someone they knew to be illegal, property confiscated and them arrested. Same with realtors.
"Does it sound like I am fed up? I think voters nationwide are tired of the games and the lies. Ignore us at your peril." missdorothy
"These ILLEGALS are more than welcome to take their children with them back home. Enough money is being spent to deport them, I don't want to foot the bills for the children until they're 18." IowaNinersFan
"what really should be done is added border security. I'm talking more guards, land mines, machine gun nests, electrical fences, you name it-basically turn the border into a no-man's land. BUT that will never be a reality unfortunately because so many people take the side of criminals today" Avalanche719
The Des Moines Register.com
What's really amazing about this random sampling of posts is the commenters above, and their likeminded ilk, monopolize The Register discussion board. I know, I regularly read and post at The Register myself. But even though I'm disabled and retired, I have to walk away from the computer once in a while. It, however, seems that the reactionary right, like rust, never sleeps.
Such Attitudes,as the above, are a poison crippling this country, much to our own peril. The United States and its citizens is in all probability the most hated nation in the world.
Last March I was in Monterrey, Mexico enjoying a beer at the Cuauhtemoc Moctezuma Brewery, practicing my baby Spanish on a gentleman, his wife and sister-in-law, and he asked me if I were a Canadian? It didn't dawn on me until later why the fellow thought I was Canadian. Perhaps the fellow knew more English than he was letting on? Then again, more of them in the wider world can read and speak English than we Americans can read, let alone speak any other language outside our bastardized dialect.
Our willful American ignornace of the outside world is quickly hardening into stupidity; the actions of the stupid often result in injury to himself and others.
» Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: sausage
» Don't play dumb !
Posted by: Last Chance
» Why? Because your are?
Posted by: sausage
» Clueless
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: here we go again.....
Posted by: sausage
» Take it up with the Pope!
Posted by: sausage
» Again! Intelligent Discussion.
Posted by: Dakota64
» Where did you find this?
Posted by: sausage
» Mmmmhmmm
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: countingdaisies
» The above comment is at "blogbooks" . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: The above comment is at "blogbooks" . . .
Posted by: Scientz
» Nope, you're going to have to use your big boy words...
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: Nope, you're going to have to use your big boy words...
Posted by: Scientz
» RE: The above comment is at "blogbooks" . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
» RE: Hey genius, people don't want people sneaking into the country in the dead of night...
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HBoyer on May 21, 2008 7:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and tax payers.
Free Medical, welfare, reduce wages, carry diseases, criminal activity, free schooling for their children, most do not have high school diplomas.
Deport them and prosecute the employers to the limit.
If we fail to do this, we will become a 3rd world country like the ones the illegal Aliens came from.
» You're barking up the wrong tree
Posted by: lefty010
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 21, 2008 7:50 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many appear to be content with any law-enforcement policy that lends the appearance of addressing the situation. Never mind if it's ineffective, disproportionate, if human rights or domestic U.S. law is violated, if huge amounts of money are wasted, etc. As long as there's a good show that makes it appear that the government is "getting touch on illegals" then that;s all that matters.
Again, not saying this is always the case, but I see a lot of it in the comments. If I were an immigration restrictionist and I truly wanted to see their numbers reduced, I would look at the current enforcement model used in the U.S. as a hopeless policy for achieving my goals.
» The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: sausage
» RE: The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: The Postville raid was classic union busting, Joshua
Posted by: desidid
» RE: An observation
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: An observation
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on May 21, 2008 7:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The story was not very good...it focused on how people do not get good medical care in these detention facilities and some die. They never answered the question of why all these people were in such a detention center in the first place. These were not necessarily illegals, one was coming here from Hatti after being granted political asylum but as soon as he got off the plane he was arrested and put in a detention center then died due to lack of medical care.
The story barely touched on the fact that these detention centers were a "secret prison system few Americans knew anything about."
Regardless of your position on immigration, legal and illegal, this seemed way off base.
Are these the detention centers built by Halliburton? How long are people kept there?
America has really sunk if a man granted political asylum is arrested as soon as he steps off the plane then thrown in a huge prison where he dies within a week due to neglect.
VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: nomomorons
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Immigrant detention centers
Posted by: Grandma Crabby
Comments are closed-
Posted by: desidid on May 21, 2008 8:03 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would love to read the flip-side of this story to find out how legal workers are treated and if they think their working conditions would improve if they weren't forced to work with illegal immigrants? I'm sure we will never know that side of the story because it conflicts with the purpose of these stories, to propagandize the pro-immigrant stance. But take it from someone who has worked with illegals they don't have a common interest in making the workplace better while there is a legal worker in sight. It is completely counter-productive to them having jobs in the first place. What would be the rational for one of these employers to hire illegals who worked with legal workers to improve working conditions? There isn't any, and no amount of sad stories will change that fact.
» RE: National Labor Board
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: National Labor Board
Posted by: desidid
» horses lose out too when illegals take jobs
Posted by: stilldreaming
Comments are closed-
» Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Is that why you deleted thoughtcriminal's account?
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Alternet's job is to whip up race and gender issues, and avoid real analysis.
Posted by: desidid
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Alex Hidell on May 21, 2008 8:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
REX84 (Readiness Exercise 1984)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rex_84
These plans were always using immigrants as the front with the real goal being detention of political opposition, as during the Nixon era Huston Plan (Tom Huston of DOD in Nixon's White House drew up the plans).
Huston Plan
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Plan
God only knows and the brave only ask what plans are being or have been made by the Bush administration.
» RE: The followup to REX84 and martial law. Ollie North's old op
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 21, 2008 8:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Just curious, but . . .
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .
Posted by: desidid
» RE: Just curious, but . . .
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua.
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua. Hi again
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua. Hi again
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Just curious, but . . .disagree with Joshua. Hi again. Going to a bit of extreme?
Posted by: SamFox
» Mormons don't vote for their favorite politicians, Illegal immigrants do
Posted by: blogbooks
» Their anchor babies grow up and can vote
Posted by: blogbooks
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: PostvilleGuy on May 21, 2008 8:49 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The allegations are, surprisingly, ALLEGATIONS. Saying that AP reported that the company withheld money, or didn't allow employees to use the bathroom is LIBEL. They may have reported this as allegations, but I don't believe AP reported this as fact. None of these media reporters have done a shred of investigative, or even honest, journalism.
They prefer copy/pasting from government documents, or other allegations. None of them took a real hard look at any of these allegations. The affidavit is full of self-contradictions, hearsay, and shocking ignorance of a production environment.
Joshua Holland - you have misrepresented the facts and presumed guilt... way to go journalism!
» But, isn't it sensational? And doesn't it whip up racial issues?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on May 21, 2008 8:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Unbelievable. Deleting comments like crazy - and this is "indymedia"? This is a bad joke.
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Let's review some prior posts, shall we - on safe topics, yes?
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Let's review some prior posts, shall we - on safe topics, yes?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely Not the only one
Posted by: ailicec
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account...say what, ailicec?
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Well, thoughtcriminal's account was deleted entirely - goodbye.
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: To Be Fair To Alternet - The Job of a Moderator is Extremely Difficult
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: To Be Fair To Alternet - The Job of a Moderator is Extremely Difficult
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: To Be Fair To Alternet - The Job of a Moderator is Extremely Difficult
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» It's Still 1-1
Posted by: opmoc
» Manchester United Beat Chelsea 6-5 On Penalties After 1-1 After Extra Time To Win The European Cup
Posted by: opmoc
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Alternet also deleted a comment by "zooeyhall"
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Delete THIS!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: Delete THIS!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lefty010 on May 21, 2008 9:07 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to say the it is very difficult to digest the brutality of the comments that have been posted here. I don't know how many of you have seen the movie or read the book "Fast Food Nation" but all of the Americans who think being an "illegal" is some fabulous, wonder-filled position to be in, you are woefully wrong. I know how pointless it is to appeal to people's emotions on these comment pages (although this is a very emotional subject) but these are HUMAN BEINGS.
Nobody would willing endure what many of the "illegals" suffer. These men and women are sons, daughters, wives, husbands, brothers and sister, mothers and fathers.They deserve consideration for that.
The anger toward "illegals" is misdirected. Focus that anger toward the policy makers and global organizations THAT CAUSE THE PROBLEM. "Illegals" are certainly not the genesis of the immigration problem. To continue to vilify them for the situation with the hopes that such hatred will somehow solve the problem is an exercise in futility.
Do some research and start demanding that U.S. policy makers stop supporting policy that CAUSES "illegal" immigration.
"Illegals" suffer just as much as Americans (maybe in different ways and more so)from the GLOBAL policy that fosters illegal immigration. Our country SUPPORTS such POLICY.
Maybe it would be helpful for all parties concerned to redirect all of the anger into more productive directions.
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people, Amen!
Posted by: CJC
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people, Amen!
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people: Nope. Not saying
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people: I agree some of what your post says....
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Policy AGAINST the people
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com
Comments are closed-
Posted by: CJC on May 21, 2008 9:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Feds have a raid, take the illegals away, lock them up (at great public expense), deport them, whatever. Then after a while the corporation hires more illegals.
Meanwhile unions have been greatly weakened over the years and most workers have no one to support their interests. Anyone with better choices won't work for poor wages and no benefits. Others who feel resentful because good jobs are scarce get angry and take their hostility out on the illegal aliens.
Thus is brewed a toxic xenophobia. Working people suffer and the corporations have huge profits and support the politicians with big donations and the situation gets worse and worse. While those on the lower end of the socio-economic heap beat up on one another the rich are getting richer.
Eventually, the system will collapse or enough Americans will understand what's going on and insist on changes that will give more rights and more income to those in the lower half of the income distribution. We have the most lopsided income distribution of any industrialized country. This is obviously untenable. The illegal aliens are not a cause of these problems but also victims of it.
» RE: Victims of corporatocracy beating up on each other
Posted by: lefty010
» RE: Victims of corporatocracy beating up on each other
Posted by: CJC
Comments are closed-
Posted by: blogbooks on May 21, 2008 9:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is not a topic most Americans can discuss rationally at this point. It is a hot button topic and people are very much divided one way or the other.
I think that plays in favor of the elites and stops any sort of real reform from happening. It has become an issue like gun control, abortion, etc. Americans are at an impasse and that means the status quo will continue unmolested.
» RE: So now that I've actually read the story...It's called
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: So now that I've actually read the story...
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: So now that I've actually read the story...Lauren, could you be
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: lefty010 on May 21, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You said in the comments (and I can't find it now) that you think that this type of immigration comes in waves and that eventually people may get homesick or find opportunity in their homeland and return.
I would agree that returning home may have been a previous trend, but do you think the same still holds true now that corporate criminals--who now operate at a global level--may have permanently removed opportunities that would have otherwise existed in peoples' home countries?
It's very complicated because as I'm typing this I am thinking about how the American worker has also been seriously harmed by globalization. If Americans are feeling the pinch (punch)then what real opportunities are there for people who barely had an existence before globalization?
» RE: What do you think?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» There is an answer -
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: There is an answer -
Posted by: desidid
» RE: What do you think?
Posted by: lefty010
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TheJibreelaMonsters on May 21, 2008 10:34 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like I said I could rant on however why bother. The "open border" kids minds are being numb from there College. They will learn the hard way with higher taxes and less services.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: non-person on May 21, 2008 10:37 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We must emplace very high tariff boundaries to capital flows, in other words.
This will prevent U.S. manufacturers from outsourcing jobs to Mexico and China where labor is cheaper, because they would have to operate as a Mexican company to do so, and then they would be taxed and regulated by the Mexican government.
It would also prevent the flood of cheap U.S. subsidized corn imports into Mexico that has resulted in the northward flood of immigrants. Hey - I like these people, to tell you the truth. Anyone who can cross the Sonoran desert on foot - that's the kind of initiative and spirit that has made America great.
For a discussion of NAFTA and SPP and immigration, check out this: From NAFTA to the SPP: Here comes the Security and Prosperity Partnership, but—what security? whose prosperity?
Katherine Sciacchitano
Quote:
"Which is closer to your vision of North America?
Vision A: Three interdependent countries with vibrant social movements, respect for labor rights, and environmentally sustainable economies anchored in provision of social needs and respect for cultural autonomy?
Or Vision B: An unequal alliance dominated by the United States, complete with pumped up oil and gas production, increasing militarization, corporate transnational planning groups, and guest worker programs to ensure cheap, vulnerable labor?"
» RE: Immigration is a good thing - just not for dollars.
Posted by: Last Chance
» Oh, that's too funny
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Immigration is a good thing - just not for dollars.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Immigration is a good thing - but only if
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ciccio on May 21, 2008 10:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Illegal immigration can be stopped overnight???
Posted by: Last Chance
» Can, but won't. None of the elites have any interest in stopping it.
Posted by: blogbooks
Comments are closed-
Posted by: opmoc on May 21, 2008 10:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now who are these people - and where did they originate from?
Where are they now - and exactly what are they doing?
Will they succeed?
What will they do if they achieve their objectives?
Are such discussions allowed on Alternet?
Will Americans save us from them?
The World may not actually be as it appears, because the image projected is the image you are supposed to see.
» RE: The Origins of World Government
Posted by: Last Chance
» RE: The Origins of World Government
Posted by: opmoc
» Local Sovereignty and Mutual Respect = Global Peace
Posted by: Last Chance
» Of course, these are not competing power blocs being set up
Posted by: blogbooks
» Alternet deleted thoughtcriminal's account today, opmoc.
Posted by: non-person
» RE: Alternet deleted thoughtcriminal's account today, opmoc.
Posted by: opmoc
» Incidentally thoughtcriminal (non-person)
Posted by: opmoc
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nomomorons on May 21, 2008 12:25 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God help us.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: citizenjoe on May 21, 2008 12:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: Yesh, in Germany persecution
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nomomorons on May 21, 2008 12:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our Congressman, John Carter, actually backed the conversion of this prison into the baby-jail that it is, in cooperation with the corporation raking in a killing on this outrageous, immoral operation. Check out the profits for Corrections Corporation of American (CCA),which currently has a totally incompetent director/attorney being considered for a Federal judgeship, courtesy of our current president. And maybe some help from Mr. Carter.)
Welcome to Bush's Brave New World of Corrupt Corporate Control!
Raise some hell over this, please!
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on May 21, 2008 1:14 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, where will Americans go? Can we go to Germany, Canada, or Australia? Canada will be the easist to flee to, with the long border. Perhaps Canada will decide, however, to put troops and vigilantes on its border. Kind of like the USA does now with Mexico. Escaping Americans will have to go through the woods with no food or water and walk for days. Goons and RCMP police will shoot at them or arrest and depart them.
Americans even visiting France or Germany, will, of course, all need to be fingerprinted and photographed at the border. They will have to show proof that they intend to return to the USA by showing a return plane ticket. Some, who look suspicious (or are "dark skinned") will, of course, need to be interrogated in back rooms as they may be "terrorists," or worse, plan to stay in the country illegally and indefinetly.
Just wait for the "worm to turn" America. How you treat the people of the world now is how you will be treated.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chlamor on May 21, 2008 1:19 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And for dessert a little low-fat imperialism:
Consider.
Immigration is essentially driven by America's OWN grievously immoral, underhanded, fraudulent and criminal actions under a policy of neo-liberal exploitation that has occasioned massive theft, political intrigue and election-tampering, coups, propping-up of corrupt dictators and brutal autocrats, blackmail, assassinations and death-squads, institutionalized terrorism, IMF/WTO/World Bank-imposed privatization and 'restructuring' and subsidized agricultural exports that have displaced huge numbers of small farmers, 'drug-war' skullduggery and forced de-funding of critical social services and public infrastructure -- the concept of 'illegal immigration' falls-apart. It is actually economic and political self-defense.
Illegal immigration is a wedge issue primarily because most Americans are ignorant about, in denial, or unwilling to face the fact that America has taken outrageous advantage of and abused the basic civil and human rights of Latin American citizens in order to prop-up America's bloated standard of living and overextended debt. The principles of rule of law governing allowable and acceptable economic trade practices and respecting the sovereignty of foreign nations have been consistently violated by America's appeal to its imaginary sense of exceptionalism -- which constitutes a huge nationalistic blind spot.
Americans in general tend to be astonishingly uninformed and misinformed about genuine history and the real consequences of American foreign policy-- thanks in large part to its disingenuous mass media and the co-opted public education industry. For all the popular rhetoric about America's National pride, honor and sense of values, and championing the causes of freedom, peace and justice, to a very large extent the American public is clueless about how hypocritical and self-serving the US has been, and how complicit they are by not holding their leaders and policymakers accountable for America's devastating Imperialist pretensions.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chlamor on May 21, 2008 1:24 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's as if they think racism (or any of the other oppressions) is necessarily a CONSCIOUS construct: "I really don't like black people, immigrants etc. -- I think they're inferior, so let's not fund the levees and then someday they may die."
No, perhaps the worst, but certainly the most intransigent aspect of racism is the part based on SUBconscious or even UNconscious beliefs that there are people who simply don't count as much, for whatever reason. But the funny thing is, those people tend overwhelmingly to fall into the oppressed groups. "Oh, it's only black folk (so who cares?)," or "Oh, it's only poor folk (who are lazy and therefore deserve what they get) and old people (past their prime and useless) anyway."
The US is a nation born of genocide, suckled on slavery, and weaned on apartheid, and the weaning process has been largely confined to a bottle at board meetings.
And as someone else mentioned, maybe here, maybe elsewhere, the sin, in the eyes of the white and affluent, is not the racism itself, but being reminded of it.
To be fair, it is so deeply ingrained that most do not even realize it, and their indignation is quite sincere when they insist that they are not a bit racist.
» RE: A word about racism as relates...
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: A word about racism as relates...Racism sucks. It is a stupid
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SOWILO on May 21, 2008 1:38 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they say it's the best
And we all helped make it
It's called the Death of the West
the kids from Fame will all be there
Free cocacola for you!
And all the monkeys from the zoo
Will they be extras too?
They're making the last film
they say it's the best
And we all helped make it
It's called the Death of the West
A star is rising in our northern sky
And on it we're crucified
A chain of gold is wrapped around this world
We're ruled by those who lie
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SamFox on May 21, 2008 3:42 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is typically of leftist liberals. The only free speech they want is theirs. The only point of view they can hear or see is theirs.
I did not curse, defame or post hate sites. I do not hate illegals. I do wish they would stop invading the USA. All my links were to sites that show the illegal immigration problem is worse than indicated in the lead story. If you are not going to allow an honest debate at least have the integrity to say so!!
SamFox
SamFox
» RE: Why were my post deleted?
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: Why were my post deleted?
Posted by: genderless
Comments are closed-
Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on May 21, 2008 3:57 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it comes to treatment of its "illegal" or undocumented humans, the results have been dismal: people dying in captivity, mothers taken away from their children, habeas corpus suspended, and reports of torture, drugging often put fear into these people.
ICE can conduct all the raids it wants, but it will not deter people from wanting to do America's dirty work; a MBA person wouldn't dare set foot inside a meat packing plant nor work as janitors or any other kind of low-paying job.
An argument would go that ICE raids are necessary and are "enforcing" the "law", but this misses the purpose: these raids are only to intimidate others and to appease the "law and order" sect. The detainees aren't housed in Malibu-type rehab centers, so you can bet these detention facilities are as bad an Los Angeles or a Third World jail.
Life in this country isn't supposed to be like this-a 3.6 million plus square mile penal colony with an electronic fence on the southern border with armed to the teeth border patrol squad. As we have seen in Oklahoma, kicking out nearly all the undocumented or guest workers-Gastarbeiter-will wreck havoc in your economy.
For now, let's stop these ICE raids and just put them on ice.
» RE: ICEd Out: Better yet, do as
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: stilldreaming on May 21, 2008 4:45 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just for balance. Just wondering. And don't withold the gorry details of crimes committed by illegals. Just so we don't get the wrong impression that only US is big and bad and racist etc, and the "poor" immigrants are so innocent, so wronged, always treated badly.
I do not deny that US needs to regulate abuses by officers, police etc, or that police and immigration themselves need to follow US law, and IMO torture has absolutely no place in US law.
» RE: Will Alternet publish stories about crimes committed by illegal immigrants? No.
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Will Alternet research&publish stories about crimes committed by illegal immigrants?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Will Alternet research; Yo Josh, then why were
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SOWILO on May 21, 2008 5:00 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» LoL
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: LoL
Posted by: SOWILO
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Bearzerker on May 21, 2008 5:39 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
tell me honestly, do really feel safer since these clowns where put in charge of the Homeland [sounds precariously like fatherland and a Nazi-state] or are they like how I see them... part of the problem [ala Gestapo] and exacerbating it instead of finding a true solution!
dammit people... just how many layers of policing do you need anyways...
cant you sheeple see these things for what they are... GRAFT MACHINES for politicals freinds and associates...
always follow the money... see where it comes from and illuminate the funding at its source...
that would make eliminating all the shit that this illegal cash funds so much easier now wouldn't it!
reduce the costs to the GDP by streamlining medical care and its costs to productivity as a healthy workforce is a working workforce... at the same time bring all citizens into care coverage... this WILL ensure that all people WILL BE PROPERLY IDENTIFIED, possibly ending the problem with voter fraud as well
end the black market... bringing all goods and services into the mainstream will de-fund terrorism and organized criminal activities.
This will also eliminate the need for the corporate prison complexes and the vast numbers of incarcerated people which are their primarily to work as slave laborers, and cutting incomes to actual working families who in turn feed the economies of multiple countries...
its a vicious cycle but through good leadership it can be salvaged!
to many Chiefs... not enough Indians... and way to many handouts
» 84gawker
Posted by: jbwestwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: genderless on May 21, 2008 7:01 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ailicec on May 21, 2008 7:31 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great article, and I'm very grateful to Joshua Holland for having the courage to speak up on this. Ever since I first read about the raid in Iowa, I've been asking myself if ICE's timing was just coincidence or purposely convenient.
"Agriprocessor's management must have been pleased with the timing of the raid. Not only did it put at least a crimp in the ongoing investigations of serious allegations of abuse by the company, it also derailed an effort by UFCW to organize the plants' workers and give them a shot at bargaining with management for better working conditions."
The company was being investigated for violations of CHILD LABOR LAWS, they had children as young as 13 working in the slaughterhouse.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: jbwestwood on May 21, 2008 8:45 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you find admirable today's failed attempt by Senators Craig and Feinstein to attach (sneak is a more factual term) to the IRAQ war bill a provision for inviting more illegals into US farm labor? Puppets!
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 21, 2008 9:30 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
. . . Who is Wackenhut?
why should you care? ... they run privatized:
- prisons
- medical facilities
- psychiatric facilities
- support & security facilities
- data management of 'turn-key' style facilities...
- transport of persons between facilities...
Smash ICE Northwest Detention Center - docushort
& let's not forget, in the US, judges can invest in their prisons, too!
or, you can own prisons, & just BECOME a judge!
how wonderfully flexible...
with all those profits to be made, good job nobody gets left out!
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
┄┄
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
┄┄
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄┄
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sicntired on May 21, 2008 10:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: macdon1 on May 21, 2008 10:50 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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