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Rights and Liberties

Why the Police Wouldn't Tase Me When I Asked Them to

By Danielle Egan, The Tyee. Posted May 13, 2008.


Police explain to a journalist who wants to know what being tasered feels like, "we really don't fully understand and know the risks."
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The shooting was premeditated. Cpl. Gregg Gillis plotted it out a month in advance. Two weeks later, he nailed down the date and location: the Royal Canadian Mounted Police offices in Richmond, British Columbia. My first thought upon waking that morning: What to wear to my own zapping?

En route, I half expect a last-minute call to cancel my appointment with 50,000 volts of electricity. More than 300 North Americans have died after being tasered since the stun gun was introduced in 1999, including at least 20 in Canada. Robert Dziekanski became the most notable recipient when he died at the Vancouver airport on Oct. 14, after being tasered twice by Richmond-based RCMP officers. The incident was caught on tape by a bystander and posted on Youtube, sparking controversy round the globe. The safety of the stun gun has since come under heavy fire, with heated debates among medical specialists and accusations that Taser International censors, bullies and sues medical examiners who link deaths to tasers. Meantime, Amnesty International is calling for a taser moratorium, and the United Nations has called the taser a potentially lethal method of torture. In Canada, a government investigation has cited taser usage creep among law enforcement, lack of transparency with field use statistics, the need for stricter guidelines for its use and improved training.

Letting a journalist go through RCMP taser school seems like the kind of trouble the RCMP would go out of its way to avoid.

Training day

But here I am and Sgt. Mike and Sgt. Gene of the undercover drug squad are my schoolmates for the daylong recertification course, which is mandatory every three years. Their initial two-day training included brief "exposure" to the Taser's zap, which used to be mandatory. But with rare reports of adverse reactions, it's now only strongly recommended.

Gene has never once used his Smith and Wesson pistol in his seven years as a Mountie and has only once fired his taser on a man who had been threatening an ex-girlfriend and became "combative" after Gene chased him down and tried to get him cuffed. Drug squad team boss Mike, with 12 years of service under his holster, has never fired either gun. Neither are keen to be voluntarily zapped again today, but I elicit raised eyebrows when I tell them the plan is for me to be tased.

"I'll do it if you do it," says 32-year-old Gene, a university grad and former Canadian Forces member who acknowledges it "sounds like a big clich," that he joined the RCMP "to do my part for my country and community." The RCMP is Canada's federal police force, and while large urban centers like Vancouver and Toronto have city police forces, approximately 25,000 Mounties are contracted to suburban and rural areas across Canada.

Our trainer, Adrian Tarasoff, wearing an RCMP issue T-shirt emblazoned with the Public and Police Safety patch (a maple leaf and a gun), begins the touch-screen Powerpoint training presentation by discussing the mechanics of this most-studied weapon in law enforcement.

Standing on the trigger

Tarasoff reminds us that tasers fail to work 20 per cent of the time. And even with optimal deployment -- when both darts hit the subject, ideally with a 36-inch probe spread -- one out of 10 times it won't cause the ideal five seconds of neuromuscular incapacitation.

The now-famous Vancouver airport video footage has certainly put this topic of less-than-ideal taser deployment into stark relief, for a number of reasons. 40-year-old Dziekanski was tased a mere 24 seconds after RCMP officers arrived at the scene, yet he continued to flail around post-exposure. Prior to the tasing, the Polish immigrant had spent many hours inside the international arrivals area, a secure area where travelers also go through customs. His mother, a Vancouver resident, had ordered him to wait at his baggage carousel, assuming it was accessible to the public. It's not, though that's where he remained, unbeknownst to his mother, who eventually left the airport. Dziekanski's behavior became increasingly erratic as the hours ticked by. He did find his way towards to sliding glass doors leading to the public waiting area, armed at one point with a chair, shouting at airport officials and refusing to exit.

When RCMP officers showed up, he started to back away and was immediately tased. Yowling in pain, he stumbled to the ground, though his muscles didn't seem to freeze up, so the officers went hands-on to get him cuffed, a struggle that ended when Dziekanski stopped breathing. It's too early in the day to start throwing around accusations of excessive force, so I broach this sensitive topic by wondering why the taser didn't cause the desired neuromuscular incapacitation. Since the ideal deployment range is between 12 and 18 feet, perhaps the officer fired from too-close range, or one of the darts didn't connect? The officers won't speculate about these details involving their former colleagues (all have been transferred to other detachments since the incident) while the RCMP investigates the case. It's scheduled to wrap up by the end of May, when data stored in the X-26 model's software should be released, including a pertinent piece in that puzzle: the duration of each zap.

Multiple and prolonged tasing (aka "standing on the trigger" for longer than five seconds) is a hot-button safety topic and one which the recent Canadian report singled out as problematic among taser-related "adverse findings," particularly when the stun gun was "applied multiple times even after the subjects were no longer exhibiting combative or resistant behavior."

'You may need multiple applications'

I've already done some homework on this topic and know that each pull on the trigger delivers a five-second zap, called a "cycle," but tasers can cycle repeatedly for up to ten minutes. Yet, stats about multiple cycles are hard to come by. The Canadian report singled out the lack of published field use data as "a significant oversight," while field use stats collected by stun-gun maker Taser International merely report that law enforcers apply "more than one cycle" almost a third of the time.

"You may need multiple applications," says Tarasoff after we've reviewed some taser-related arrest videos. "First to get him under control, then once the rescue officers move in. You may need to apply a second and third application to maintain control until you can get the cuffs on. It makes no sense if those two officers going in there get into a big scrap with him. It endangers the person you're arresting and the officers."

The subject comes up again when Tarasoff gets into the medical research. Much of it is funded by Taser International, according to critics citing conflicts of interest among taser researchers. Tarasoff says that today's RCMP training material about the adverse effects of multiple tasing -- based on medical studies of anaesthetized pigs and humans -- is no longer "relevant." He discounts findings, for example, that "prolonged applications" can impair breathing. Tarasoff goes off script to add that, "Research since then shows multiple applications have no [harmful] effect on subjects."

Alone with a taser

Tarasoff's source is a Taser International co-funded study by Minnesota-based emergency medicine researchers, a group that has previously published studies showing no medical adverse effects on healthy volunteers.

"Once that new info is published and peer reviewed, it'll probably replace this curriculum. But we'll go over it anyway," he says. He then proceeds to speed-read through RCMP policy introduced in 2005, including advice to "subdue with one strike," since "multiple deployment or continuous cycling may be hazardous," and "applications directly across the chest may cause significant enough muscle contraction to affect breathing."

Off-script now, he adds, "Don't stand on the trigger for 30 seconds, but if you need multiple applications to get that person under control with the least injurious means, by all means do that. But you will have to be able to articulate why you needed to use multiple applications." Since Mounties typically work alone, he adds, "It might not even be feasible for me to handcuff the guy if I'm alone."

These new, yet-to-be established recommendations on multiple and prolonged tasing underline the fact that protocols are by necessity always changing based on emerging medical studies. But Tarasoff doesn't mention an already published 2007 study conducted by the Cook County Electrical Trauma Study Group, independent Chicago-based researchers who have been studying the weapon since 2005. Their study (replicated again this year) showed that after enduring only two seconds of an X-26 zap, the heart rate of pigs jumped from 80 beats per minute (bpm) to about 300 bpm. Tachycardia can occur at 120 bpm and cause lethal heart attacks.

Change of plans

At lunch break, Cpl. Gillis shows up and says the lawyers got cold feet about the plan to zap me. "As you learned this morning, there's risk of injury," says the 43-year-old RCMP expert in taser training who has been exposed more than 20 times during training and compares its effects to the muscle burn of a gym workout. "You could potentially tear a muscle and we would be on the hook for your medical expenses and loss of income. You could come after us for pain and discomfort."

I had been questioning my sanity for days, particularly after seeing a video of La Toya Jackson voluntarily zapped (in the back). But now I feel like a dinner guest promised a full meal that never materializes. Why can't I sign my life away with a waiver? Gillis says he'll make another call during lunch. "My school of thought is that if we're saying this is safe for use on the public, why not?" offers Gillis.

Back in the classroom, Tarasoff hands us each a loaded X-26 Taser and then goes over recent policy and protocol changes. Example: even if they draw a Taser on a subject, they will have to file a report by the end of shift, not within 15 days, "because people haven't been completing the forms." Officers are now also allowed to remove the barbed darts from the subject instead of waiting for a medical officer, unless they've hit "sensitive areas" like eyes and genitals.

'Excited delirium' situations

"Remember that if the situation dictates, you can use multiple applications," Tarasoff says once again. "If the subject is in the grips of a mental health crisis or has excited delirium (ED), they'll need medical assistance ASAP. In order for EHS to intervene, they first have to be restrained and under control. It falls on us to do that. With ED, the use of a taser in probe deployment mode may be the most effective response to establish control."

This is another surprising recommendation. The American Civil Liberties Union says Taser International uses the diagnosis to "whitewash" in-custody deaths and the Canadian government report specifically called for restricting use with ED subjects. "Right now [the report author] is putting out off-the-cuff comments if you will," Gillis responds. "Where's the meat and potatoes? We have to go on science and the leading medical expert in this country Christine Hall [a BC ER physician] is still saying, 'Look this is better than fighting with these people and traditional methods.' So as a result we're going to continue to use it in ED cases."

Gillis thinks Dziekanski exhibited classic ED behavior prior to the shooting: "profuse sweating, extreme mental and physiological excitement, disoriented, irrelevant speech, erratic behavior like arming himself with a stapler, trying to break glass, the repetitive movements, like making a pile of things by an opening door. Physiologically, these people are writing checks they can't cash and they need medical attention fast. The best plan with ED cases is immediate taser."

Tarasoff adds, "It's better to use the taser a couple of times instead of fighting them." Tasing, he points out, is typically far less risky than going hands-on, according to in-custody death stats: 63 per cent compared with 27 per cent that are Taser-related. But some researchers have advised against using Tasers in all but the most combative ED cases -- and in Dziekanski's case, the Mounties ended up going hands-on as well, to get him cuffed.

The Dziekaski takedown

RCMP officers are schooled to restrain subjects in the face-down position, known as the "prone position," though one of the officers appears to have pressed down on Dziekanski's head and neck, which is known to cause hypoventilation. What gives with that? "We're taught to avoid the neck, but not necessarily the head," says Gene, who is also an officer safety instructor and has worked at the Vancouver airport. "You want to avoid compromising someone's breathing, so you should apply pressure to the shoulder area. But I can't comment directly to the video." Underlying medical conditions and use of drugs like cocaine have been linked to ED-related deaths, but tasers have also been implicated in at least 30 deaths. Yet, Arizona-based Taser International has won 66 court battles and has sued U.S. medical examiners to prevent them from noting the taser as a cause of death.

A coroner's inquest into Dziekanski's death is still pending, yet while post-mortem toxicology report showed no drugs or alcohol, but after being tased he was clearly involved in a physical struggle, which has a particular risk for ED cases. A 1998 study found that every single in-custody death in the province of Ontario between 1988 and 1995 were associated with restraint either in the prone position or by putting pressure on the neck.

Burning in protocol

Gillis points out that 80 per cent of the time, officers are able to arrest citizens without engaging in physical combat. In the other 20 per cent of cases, the goal of RCMP training is to "burn protocol into an officer's C-drive" so they can "establish control quickly with the least amount of injury to all parties involved."

But each situation dictates a unique response, so it can be dangerous to expect officers to function like automatons. For example, Gillis mentions a Chicago cop who accidentally drew his gun instead of his Taser, then shot and killed the already cuffed perp. Gillis says the accident was a result of muscle memory and, thus, the RCMP now advises officers to pack the Taser in a leg holster on their nondominant side and draw it with the nondominant hand.

Gene and Mike practice drawing left-handed, then the scenario-based training begins. First, all their weapons have to be replaced with dummies, though the Tasers' barbed darts remain. Gillis will act as the bad guy. He dons a helmet and a brown padded suit and we head into a narrow dark hall next door. Gillis does such an impressive acting job that my adrenaline surges as if this were a real life or death situation and time seems to pass in fast-forward.

Next is the de-brief. The officers have to justify exactly how and why the bad guy was actively resisting arrest, warranting Taser use. Mike and Gene were easily able to pinpoint these factors earlier while armchair quarterbacking training videos. But now their memories of the scenario events are fuzzy and they sound more like schoolboys at the principal's office. "If we do [scenario training] right we should be able to get a similar adrenaline and dopamine response to a real-life situation and that impacts recall ability," explains Gillis. "The best way to get accurate info is to ask the bare bones questions and then after 24 to 48 hours, after those chemicals clear themselves and after good REM sleep, do a secondary follow-up interview. But the public doesn't always understand this issue. These are basic physiological reactions to the stress of dangerous situations where there's a chance of death or grievous bodily harm to the public and to the officer. In a real-life situation, they might not even make it home."

Balancing risks officers face

Indeed, while Dziekanski became a household name, one Ontario-based Mountie and two from British Columbia were killed in the line of duty. "How many people remember their names?" wonders Gillis, who maintains that Tasers curb dangers for both officers and civilians.

But unlike guns or batons, the X-26 Taser deployed on Dziekanski stores pertinent computer downloadable information, including the number and duration of zaps. The fact that thorough field-use statistics haven't been made public by the RCMP or Taser International certainly heightens public distrust and, more importantly, could negatively impact training protocol, cause usage creep and unnecessarily endanger lives.

Gillis collects the dummy Tasers and starts replacing them with live cartridges. Am I about to get zapped?

"Unfortunately, the people at the Department of Justice have a bigger circle of influence than I do," says Gillis and provides a skiing analogy for their refusal to allow my tasing. "You accept the risk of falling and breaking a leg, but [the company operating the ski hill] can't sign off on the status of the chairlift because the assumption is that it is safe. Can you really sign off your rights on something like the Taser when we really don't fully understand and know the risks?"

Trouble is, nobody fully knows the risks, and until we do, the controversies surrounding this weapon are bound to continue.

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Danielle Egan, a contributing editor to The Tyee, is a widely published Vancouver-based journalist.

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luckily for you, many lived to tell the tale...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 13, 2008 5:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Halifax judge slams police for using Taser on teen girl: described it as a 'burning open wound' encompassing her body

considering "Stung by criticism, Mountie Commissioner Elliott zapped with Taser"

now THIS is marketing!

==
The TASER Foundation Launches “Drive to Remember” to Raise Awareness About Officers Killed in the Line of Duty


THE GOAL:
To raise awareness about officers killed-in-the-line-of-duty by driving across the United States, from LA to DC, to attend the National Peace Officers Memorial Service on May 15th.

THE “DRIVE”:
The idea was conceived in October 2006 as a unique way to raise awareness across the country about officer line-of-duty deaths.
...

THE VEHICLE:
A 2007 Hummer H3, wrapped in striking law enforcement memorial graphics.
Including the names of all 145 American officers and 6 Canadian officers killed-in-the-line-of-duty in 2006, prominently displayed in a place of honor on the hood.


THE DRIVERS:
• Sergeant Steve Gibson, law enforcement officer-Patrol Sgt, ... , TASER Foundation, Publisher/Editor 24Seven Cop2Cop Newspaper.
• Detective Tod Catchpole, law enforcement officer-Missing Women Task Project Evenhanded, ... , TASER Foundation, Publisher 24Seven Cop2Cop Newspaper.
• Craig Prystay, friend of law enforcement, GM of Best Western-Sands Hotel, ... , TASER Foundation, Marketing Manager 24Seven Cop2Cop Newspaper.

THE ROUTE:
4,000 miles, 2 Countries, 18 States, 1 Province, 26 Major Cities, 11 days.
• May 01st Vancouver B.C. via I-5 to Seattle WA, Tacoma WA to Portland ...
• May 12th New York via I-95 to Washington DC
(official greeting by NLEOMF Chairman & attend NAPO Top Cops Award Ceremony)

THE SPONSORS:
This “Drive” would not be possible without the help of our many sponsors.
• 24Seven Cop2Cop Newspaper: Vehicle owners drivers, management & logistics
• TASER Foundation: Vehicle wrap & vehicle logistics
• Best Western Hotels International: Hotels & Meals
• Chevron: Gasoline & Car Washes
...

SPONSORSHIP OPPORTUNITES:
• This will be an annual event and throughout the year the vehicle wrap will be left on to increase awareness of line-of-duty deaths.
• For more information and on how you can support the “Drive To Remember” year round please visit www.taserfoundation.org or contact:

• Tod Catchpole
24SevenNews@telus.net
Cell 602-384-8416 (AZ area code)

• Craig Prystay
prystay@telus.net
Cell 604-817-2637 (Vancouver)
==

nothing says love like a corporate, profit-driven 'false dichotomy' propaganda!

now get on out there & welcome them to YOUR community!

note: in a study of the >500 Canadian police taserings, 3/4 of the victims... had no weapon.

meaning? the only "ill equipping" going on was a lack of SOCIAL SKILLS to deal with the situation.

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"do no harm"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» when I called last week... Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
tased?, YOU OBVIOUSLY "had it coming" & you weren't "endangered"
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 13, 2008 5:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'cuz everybody KNOWS that >50K+ volts couldn't possibly exacerrbate ANY pre-existing injuries or medical conditions!


===
Judge orders all references to 'Taser' stricken from medical examiner's reports
Diane Sweet, Published: Sunday May 4, 2008

A Summit County Common Pleas judge ordered the county medical examiner to delete any reference that Tasers contributed to the deaths of three Ohio men.

All three men were in an 'agitated' state and 'on drugs' when police officers shot them with Tasers, and the judge ordered their deaths be ruled 'accidental' also that any reference to "homicide" or "electrical pulse stimulation" should be deleted from death certificates and autopsy reports."
...
The judge further ordered that man's death be ruled as "undetermined" and to "delete any references to homicide and the death possibly being caused by asphyxia, beatings or other factors."
...
A Taser International spokesman issued the following statement after the court ruling:

"Taser International believed from the beginning that these determinations of cause of death must be supported by facts, medical research and scientific evidence," spokesman Steve Tuttle said in a prepared statement Friday.
...
The attorney from the prosecutor's office representling the medical examiner said of the case:

"It was an interesting case and an uphill battle," said Manley. "Taser is quite a force to be reckoned with and does everything to protect their golden egg, which is the Model X26."
===

I love how the presumption is that its EITHER a shooting, a baton to the head, a gassing OR a taser. ...so much for leveraging those social skills...

The main benefit to a taser? apparently, its the lack of gushing cranial trauma for the media. ...too bad those bodies keep stacking up like cordwood.

I guess SOCIAL SKILLS just aren't something you can hand out in a holster & waive around with your buddies.

...are our Community Peace Officers recruits still chosen based on their social skills?

I'd like to think so... because I'm still dumb enough to believe that treating the public with respect & compassion is part of the paycheque. If you treat the Public like its a LockDown Nation or they're cattle... how does our local governments think a society reacts?

... people tend to recognize when they're threatened & given compliance demands. They tend to notice & react with distress & anxiety.

Gee, that's escalating, isn't it?

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"do no harm"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

My God I thought only a white American male could be so stupid!
Posted by: Nightstallion on May 13, 2008 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a white American male and lady the only reason I ain't dead is because I have been dumb enough in the right place! Here is why I would NEVER allow someone to taser someone or me (physically) near me. The thing these idiots don’t tell you when they sell these weapons is that the frequency is based upon interrupting the neural current flow that exists in your entire body and the central nervous system. You are very like an electrical machine, blow a circuit and you stop functioning.

Way the fuck back in 1898 Nicola Tesla who Invented a use for High Frequency currents stated: “As long as the external integument (skin to us dummies) is not broken no harm will fall on an individual who has several billion electron volts passed over his body.” “Problems occur when there is a lesion in the skin, for then the current may enter the body and travel along the nerve cells cauterizing and destroying them permanently.”

Now, my I Q is about that of a good high temperature but even I would not want to risk death or permanent irreparable damage to my brain or nervous system. I don’t care what these so called experts in bio-electricity have told the twits who make these damned things; but do not trust them to EVER tell you the truth where money making is concerned. And NEVER get tased unless you simply must find new and interesting ways to suicide. Remember Darwin’s law applies to you too; do you really want that award?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

SO, what is the solution?
Posted by: robbie.seal on May 13, 2008 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are risks to beating someone into submission. Can't use the choke hold. Definitely don't want to shoot an unarmed person. Even rubber or plastic bullets kill. Maybe just pepper spray. That doesn't even work all of the time. If two or three (or more) cops were to jump someone and had to use force to subdue him, it would end up on Youtube. There are risks any time you have to apply force in order to subdue someone. It is a tragedy when someone dies, but I have to lean to the side of the law enforcement officer if they are trained and acting in accordance to their training.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» I don't remember saying that... Posted by: robbie.seal
» You probably have it comming! Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
Better than...
Posted by: BCcovers on May 13, 2008 8:58 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's better than getting beaten to a pulp. Which has a much higher risk of permanent injury than getting tased. Many Rodney King incidents have now been avoided by such a non-lethal weapon. What most don't understand is that tasers are designed to inflict less-permanent injury than say a club or police baton.

And in the end, it's better than taking a bullet anywhere on you body.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» "books ain't reality!" Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
» RE: "books ain't reality!" Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Better than... Posted by: tbone
» RE: Better than... Posted by: BCcovers
» RE: Better than... Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Better than... Posted by: carbon-based
Unharvested Irony
Posted by: FoamingPenguin on May 13, 2008 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's harvest time.

"My first thought upon waking that morning: What to wear to my own zapping?" -Danielle Egan

One does not see many journalists clamoring to be beaten with a PR-24 (baton) or shot with a 9mm. Yet in Ms. Egan's article she states that "Police explain to a journalist who wants to know what being tasered feels like, "we really don't fully understand and know the risks".

Tasers, like any other weapon in the hands of anyone seeking to abuse power is disturbing and we should do all we can to prevent proliferation. But quite frankly, based upon the intended use of a Taser, I'd much rather provide a non-lethal mechanism for society to subdue a violent perpetrator when all other means fail so the Tasee can be tried by 12 and not carried by 6.

Since as a society we are a bit distracted at present, and prefer to expend our resources on bringing democracy to other countries (what's the math on how much we'll spend to occupy Iraq for 100 years?, anybody?), building prisons and funding 400 Million dollar retirement packages for former Exxon CEO's. Therefore we don't have resources for things like education, healthcare, levee's social services or first-responders. Local police are being asked to do more with less resources, training and equipment. Quite frankly with the mood most of them are in, I'd prefer they have their finger on the Taser trigger, and not the other one.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Unharvested Irony Posted by: blackie4aces
The values enforced...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 13, 2008 12:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm always stunned when people advocate **enforcing** values with threats or violence.

Why?

...isn't it odd that people who always **presume** violence & compliance are CUSTOMARY & ACCEPTABLE are accustomed to believing that the VALUES enforced...

...are THEIRS.


& I find THAT revealing.

They genuinely believe nobody would ever use force to demand compliance... for something THEY don't want enforced.

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"do no harm"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

welcome to the T-1000...
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on May 13, 2008 1:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Taser, IRobot Team Up to Arm Robots

General, your tank is a powerful vehicle.
It smashes down forests and crushes men.
But it has one defect:
It needs a driver.

General, your bomber is powerful.
It flies faster than a storm
and carries more than an elephant.
But it has one defect:
It needs a mechanic.

General, man is very useful.
He can fly and he can kill.
But he has one defect:
He can think.


by Bertolt Brecht, Germany (1898-1956)

===
French Taser chief hints at flying shockbot, 30.Nov.07, Engadget

According to a recent report, the French head of stun-gun maker Taser has plans to create a "mini-flying saucer like drone which could also fire Taser stun rounds on criminal suspects or rioting crowds."

Antoine di Zazzo, fervent proselytizer of the electroshock weapon, is cutting through the is / isn't torture noise of recent UN reports with the news that the non-lethal device is about to make a serious splash in France, with president Nicolas Sarkozy promising to hand one to every policeman and gendarme.

Of course, once di Zazzo's army of tiny, hovering stun machines take to the air -- sometime next year -- the police probably won't have to worry about brandishing their weapons.

===

The Lucifer Effect: Understanding How Good People Turn Evil, by Philip Zimbardo, researcher of "The Stanford Prison Experiment"

Shocking the World: considering The Shock Doctrine...

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"do no harm"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What is wrong...
Posted by: adp3d on May 13, 2008 9:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...with just trying to calmly talk to someone? How come we get college students tasered in the library and lecture halls? I saw the video of the young lady tasered and kicked and beaten by the cop who was three times her size...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What is wrong... Posted by: PJH67
Rabbit
Posted by: arabbit on May 14, 2008 1:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Electricians, engineers, amateur radio operators and many others know that ANY voltage across the heart can kill you. Heart specialists should know this too. What's all the controversy over a known fact?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Of course they had it coming! What other possibility could there be?
Posted by: blackie4aces on May 14, 2008 4:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the "old days" when a citizen sassed a cop or objected to their often insulting and/or bullyimg behavior, that citizen (I speak from personal experience) was simply beaten to a pulp with clubs (nightsticks, batons), saps, fists, and feet. Problem was then, if there were any witnesses about, the brutality was undeniable and often caused minor problems for the police, legal and PR. Now witnesses not only have eyes but often cameras which many times rebut the usual truckload of lies that used to be trotted out to avoid any accountability. Tasers provide the perfect means of subjugating and terrifying (referred to as "street cred") the citizenry because being struck with 50-100 thousand volts of electricity is considered a humane action, preferable to, and exponentially less messy, shooting an unarmed human being (Tasers are never used against armed individuals) to death. Oh, yea, we've come a long way, baby.

Now, all garbed up in SS/Gestapo black, the in-vogue color of police departments all over the country (Goodbye halfway-friendly powder blue), devastasting force is available at any moment and less likely, except in those unlucky events when someone is killed, to cause much of a reaction from the meek, self-absorbed, frightened general public. As we learned from the John Kerry speaking incident even the absolute bottom-of-the-barrel campus police, also wearing black, junior black if you will, are armed with these marvels of technology and are more than willing to use them even if only for the offense of rudeness.

Technology rides to the rescue of the Police State, well known for many, many generations to poor people, people of color, drunks, dope fiends, and anyone who didn't quite fit into the perceptual niche of the dominant class and the mentality of their police, a mentality which has no need for, no respect for, nor any understanding of the law. But I've got news for you middle-class white folks, who heretofore have had few dealings with the professional thugs working for hire protecting "order" in our communities, and who are probably shaking your heads or rolling your eyes by now, the police state is on its way to all the corners of the American world and will be brought finally to everyone equally in vibrant, living color in the not-too-distant future. You will be too fearful to resist, and only the resistance of the middle-classes could have stemmed this tide, just as only your irrational fear of crime, abetted by a media that exists only to revel in sales figures boosted by an overwhelming, absurd, and utterly inappropriate emphasis on criminal violence, could have allowed the situation as we now know it and what it is certain to become in the future. Good luck. It's going to come as quite a shock.

Observations from
Satan's Neutral Corner

Law & Order types
can send hate mail to:
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Dispatching citizens quickly and efficiently
Posted by: Andrew_S on May 14, 2008 7:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In corporate models the bottom line is always the dollar. Most seem to forget that the sale of products to organizations previously publically owned, in this case outsourced police departments is the the bottom line. In field tests what matters most is the method from A to B, and time is money. We also have to look to minimized public perceptions. As one poster has eluded to, these weapons cause minimal physical abberations, so Joe and Jane schmoe see very little of the red stuff, even contusions. The barbs of these weapons once correctly discharged and embedded do require minor surgical removal, these are costs or procedures that are forgone as departmental cost efficiencies. Irrespective of views regarding the subject, as far as I can tell the normalizing and perception in the use of such weapons is not illegal. According to an accepted legal mandate neither is waterboarding, the bursting of organs, or anything that inflicts pain or suffering resulting in death. The bubbletesting of newer ways of urban suppression is being carried out on shores afar. A masterful move and hidden agenda now realized was the development of the neocon/pentacon takeover of social infrastructures, by the neo institution arm of public policy also known by the name DHS they own social welfare, public institutions and most of people affairs. The higher goals are rather sinister, but apparently we just need to keep calm and consume, until our names or numbers are called, in which case I hope all your DNA, ID and political connections are correct. Seems we are headed for a little nostalgia and this time the game is for keeps. If all goes well our boys in green will be replaced by a very darker blue of specialized american. After all the first clue to hit on is why are we so polarized as a society. Folks should also remember that most of our legislative bodies were developed and honed from some pretty nasty characters who's schools were not law schools, but divorce courts. Fine toolong the art of not law but manipulation, blackmail and politics, the same school as most of our Judges. See for yourself once and do a count of the history of your average high ranking legislative representaive legal begal. That was clue two by the way. Irrespective of my views I do know that something very schtinky is going on in someones version of paradise on earth. I remind you all of the human female detained at an airport who claimed 'not to be a terrorist', while detained she was found dead. Not a peep out of our DHS controlled media, except for intial reports.

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A substitute for skill and training
Posted by: phindrup on May 15, 2008 6:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a problem with all of these ‘non lethal’ weapons.
Here in Australia Tasers are still quite restricted — so far!

Fairly recently I was at a friends small super market in a ‘rough’ area. Many homeless, poor, mentally disturbed, alcoholics, a few drugees sleep in the adjoining park. An aboriginal woman created major havoc, the police were called and two police women turned up. They had parked their vehicle 50 metres away, across the park. Concerned for the safety of these women, I trailed along behind. The woman’s male friend approached the police women and asked if they would let the woman go, saying that he would ensure that she caused no further trouble.
At the ‘paddy wagon’ he again asked if they would let the woman go. There was nothing aggressive or threatening in either the language, tone or posture throughout this episode.
One of the police women hauled out her pepper spray and pointed it at his face. He swiped the spray out of her hand with a quick movement, and stood unmoving as she scrabbled around on her knees looking for the spray.
(for those who do not understand violence, had this guy been at all aggressive he would have kicked her stupid head in!)
Upon retrieving it she got up and sprayed it in his face. She and the other officer then grabbed him, and with merely passive resistance he prevented them handcuffing him.
By the time male backup arrived they had sprayed him several times.

The point is, that at no time had he made any hostile move. He had not been aggressive.
Reports suggest that it is routine for police officers to resort to the use of ‘mace’. Having observed a number of incidents, it seems to me that they have abandoned any notion of negotiating skills. They show no evidence of having any people handling/restraining skills.
In my young days I had extensive experience in stopping, controlling, defusing and managing incidents where real violence was being done.
It is my opinion that given Tassers, the cops will eventually use them just as routinely as they now do mace. It is a problem which eventually the community will have to resolve.

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Public services are cost centers
Posted by: Andrew_S on May 16, 2008 9:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aussie poster- While you describe well a problematic procedure, you are failing to see how most public service departments are operated fiscally. In the US if you look up who own's and runs public services including law enforcement departments. You will find they are generally publically funded, but privately owned. Policies and procedures are basically cost processes. The result is the deceptive and substituted use of everyone is a criminal mentality, i.e. You have to breach some civil code, after all we need to generate addititonal revenue. It is basically the same throughout the western world. These policies also are prolific in what once were considered necessary non profitible social and support infrastructures, it comes down to the bottom line. While some may claim the demise of the middle class is a good thing, they often forget the industries that have been developed to grind up and take out the wealth or wherewithall to act as a social buffer. Corporates needed social catalysts and change agents, they are evident if look for them politically and functionally. I believe Aus has some serious issues in this respect too. When confronted by law enforcement officials never make any moves that can be construed as aggressive, better yet to avoid any shoot first ask questions later incident, hold your hands in the air, drop to your knees and slowly lay down face downward. This makes it easier for you to sneakily attack their boots with your head. There are still good law enforcement personel, unfortunately they are on the decline, they can't bite the hand that feeds.

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