COMMENTS: 275
Are Immigration Authorities Going After School Children Now?
May 8, 2008 |
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OAKLAND, Calif. - Berkeley High senior Chase Stern said he was taking an Advanced Placement test May 6, when he noticed that his classmates were fidgeting in their seats and seemed distracted.
He soon found out that the Latino students were receiving text messages and phone calls from family members, warning them that Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) officers were nearby, and that they should be cautious and find their way home because family members could not pick them up.
Scores of undocumented parents began to panic as early as 7: 30 a.m. May 6, as word got around that ICE vehicles were parked near schools in East Oakland and South Berkeley.
Parent liaison Isela Barbosa said she was swamped with phone calls all day. "Parents were so afraid to come to the school, they called family members and neighbors, whoever had papers, to pick up their children."
A community member contacted Mark Coplan, Berkeley Unified School District's public information officer to tell him that a Latino family from South Berkley had been detained at a house near Russell Street, and that neighbors had spotted ICE vehicles near school areas.
By noon, the district had received so many calls from concerned parents that they set up an automated voice message system, assuring parents that that there was no way they would allow ICE officers to pick up students from school campuses. These messages were sent out both in English and in Spanish.
At about the same time, Oakland Unified School District (OUSD) officials were receiving similar calls from concerned parents and community members that ICE agency vehicles had been spotted near four Oakland schools, including Esperanza Elementary, where parents say they saw agents parked on International Blvd, 98th, 95th, and San Leandro Boulevard, a four block radius surrounding the school.
OUSD officials said they were hesitant to communicate with parents, so instead sent out e-mails to all school district staff about what was happening and reminding them that the school district's commitment was to educate all students, documented or otherwise. The e-mail also advised staff not to facilitate any immigration enforcement actions.
As word of the presence of ICE agents in the neighborhood spread, Oakland Mayor Ron Dellums rushed over to Esperanza Elementary School, where a number of parents and community members had gathered.
Addressing them, the Mayor called the situation the "the ugly side of government."
He labeled the ICE actions "inappropriate and unnecessary" and reiterated that children needed education, not harassment. "There should be no raids in Oakland," he said.
"As a sanctuary city," Dellums said, "we're all in unison. We don't want this type of intimidation. Immigrants are human beings, and need to be dealt with respect."
Oakland Vice Mayor Larry Reid, who also showed up at the school, said there was no warning about the ICE raids. "ICE just rolls in and tells our police department after the fact," he said. "The students are upset and crying. The school's administration said some of the kids are very shook up."
ICE spokeswoman Virginia Kice said that the agency is mindful of the sensitivities associated with schools. She said there was no truth to the reports that ICE was targeting schools on this day, and that the two ICE fugitive operations teams based in the Bay Area go out virtually ever day seeking immigrant fugitives.
She confirmed that on the morning of May 6, ICE officers arrested four immigration violators who were from Mexico, and were living at a residence in Berkeley. A fifth person was arrested at a residence in Oakland, she said, noting that all five have been released, pending immigration hearings.
Sara Nuno of the Family and Community Office of the OUSD dismissed ICE's assertion that there was no targeting of any schools. "They are targeting schools and we are watching them do it," she asserted.
Ellen Murry, who had come to the school to pick up her grandnephew, said that she believed these types of government actions hurt all students, not just the undocumented ones. She said that if students stayed away from school out of fear, it could impact the school district's income, the bulk of which comes from student attendance.
Troy Flint, communications officer of OUSD, pointed out that such raids distracted students who were taking the state standardized test. He assured students that the OUSD would do everything it could to allow them to finish taking the tests.
Parents and local groups, including the Alameda Labor Council, sent out more than 900 e-mails letting parents know of what was taking place.
One parent liaison, who helped to make phone calls throughout the day to concerned parents, said he thought the fear of deportation was serious. If parents sought his advice, he said, he would tell them to keep their chidren at home, even though the OUSD has assured them that the students would be protected.
NAM reporter Pete Micek contributed to this report.
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COMMENTS ( 275 )
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Comments are closed-
Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: michael1972 on May 8, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: michael1972 on May 8, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our school systems are over crowded and as sad as it may be the parents of these children took that risk by coming here illegally. If the current laws of this country are being enforced, then those who are here illegally do not have the right to complain.
It is the responsibility of Latin America (Mexico, El-Salvador and so on) to educate their own people. I do not want my tax dollars being spent on those come here illegally and suck up the resources that should be reserved for all legal citizens (black, brown, red, yellow or white people). The truth must me told.
It is the responsibility of Latin America (Mexico, El-Salvador and so on) to educate their own people. I do not want my tax dollars being spent on those come here illegally and suck up the resources that should be reserved for all legal citizens (black, brown, red, yellow or white people). The truth must me told.
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: wmb1957
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: wmm
» France, Germany, Spain, England
Posted by: Mexitli
» The yuppy upper class leftists on this site don't send their kids to public school
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: The yuppy upper class leftists on this site don't send their kids to public school
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: This yuppy upper class (?) leftists sent her kids to public school
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: I could have swarn it was the upper class, rightwing..
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: allUneedislove
» The National Origins Act
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: nancylove
» RE: "SUCK UP THE RESOURCES"
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: jay1967
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: Amerikagulag
Comments are closed-
Typical "American " Racism
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 4:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 4:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the ignorant slob to the government jack booted thug.
Of the white, for the white, by the white.
Of the white, for the white, by the white.
» RE: Hi pot, I'd like you to meet kettle, you two have Sooo much in common
Posted by: Techubus
» Not the same thing
Posted by: Mexitli
» My thoughts exactly.
Posted by: deang
Comments are closed-
ICE activity happening across the country
Posted by: ICERaidReport on May 8, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ICERaidReport on May 8, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is interesting is how the ICE regional authorities in different parts of the country have all handled their task in vastly different manners. If you're like me, and follow the subject of immigration enforcement closely, you may be interested in my blog of news articles that is updated daily: http://raidreport.blogspot.com.
Comments are closed-
I need an anchor wife for my illegal former student
Posted by: ptown on May 8, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ptown on May 8, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can you help ??? I have a young friend who just turned 18. He is now facing deportation. He's been in the USA since he was 7 years old. He grew up in East Palo Alto. He needs an immigrants rights activist to marry him, like RIGHT NOW. Today. Got any sweet girls under 25 who will walk their talk and get this guy legal?
He's a sweetheart but he's impulsive so he does have a felony and tons of juvenile priors. Truly, I'd marry him myself but I'm old enough to be his mother.
He's a sweetheart but he's impulsive so he does have a felony and tons of juvenile priors. Truly, I'd marry him myself but I'm old enough to be his mother.
» RE: They're everywhere . . . they're everwhere!
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
ninethreeone
Posted by: ninethreeone on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ninethreeone on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The raids are happening.The laws are finally being enforced. We hear sad stories of "families being torn apart." Isn't it better to keep them together--in their own country? Any parent who comes here illegally "to make a better life for the children" will decide that it's better to go home and wait their turn. And there will be no upsetting cellphone calls.
» RE: ninethreeone
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: ninethreeone
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: The laws and the US government
Posted by: fearn
» RE: The law is wrong
Posted by: Techubus
Comments are closed-
Clearly as Americans we can neither read, know or follow our own laws...
Posted by: the baron on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: the baron on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was clearly stated in this article that the teachers' job(s) regardless of registration as a lawful, citizen, or as a legal resident immigrant, or illegal immigrant that the children should be taught.
Second should a child be born within this country they are automatically a citizen of this country; and their parents are then given citizenship. Whether or not this law is still on the books, let alone actually followed anymore is obviously in question.
Third, clearly some hear have not heard of paranoia. Regardless of being a legal immigrant, or lawful citizen, some I'm sure are fearful that just because of decent, or relation to an illegal they will be deported. It appears that not only have we forgotten our history (Japanese interment camps here during WWII, and more recently Arabs in Guantanamo Bay WOT(present day)), we have not learned from it.
Second should a child be born within this country they are automatically a citizen of this country; and their parents are then given citizenship. Whether or not this law is still on the books, let alone actually followed anymore is obviously in question.
Third, clearly some hear have not heard of paranoia. Regardless of being a legal immigrant, or lawful citizen, some I'm sure are fearful that just because of decent, or relation to an illegal they will be deported. It appears that not only have we forgotten our history (Japanese interment camps here during WWII, and more recently Arabs in Guantanamo Bay WOT(present day)), we have not learned from it.
» RE: Clearly, you do not know the law
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Clearly, you lack compassion
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Clearly, you do not know the law
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Clearly as Americans we can neither read, know or follow our own laws...
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
How do the Mexican authorities do it? a question..
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 7:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 7:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an American who has snuck across the border in the middle of the night into Mexico. I have my kids enrolled in a Mexican school. What would the Mexican authorities do to me and my kids?
» RE: How do the Mexican authorities do it? a question..
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: How do the Mexican authorities do it? An answer . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
USA
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Racist white trash nation!
» RE: USA
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: USA
Posted by: fearn
» RE: USA
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: USA
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Spock
» RE: USA
Posted by: AGeach
» RE: USA
Posted by: adan_4_u
» Buey
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: sneakertogo on May 8, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sneakertogo on May 8, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Scuuuuse me ! while this is a bad situtation - personally I am sick and tired of supporting the se people! I live in AZ - and we are getting ready to rename our State to: Mexizona! They keep coming draining us dry! don't balme those that are getting fed yup with this mess! Blame the parents that come here getting all kinds of benefits while us that work hard are nor able to afford healthcare etc etc etc .. why don't you take care and pay for all the women that get pregnant sliver across the border give birth here and the kids are automatically American citizens ! Only in america - Its totally insane! I recommend yo get off your self righteous high horse, and stop acting like a Cause Junkie ....
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Why RE-Name it?
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Undocumented Children
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 8:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 8:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Speaking as a parent, there are dangers that are not being addressed. Primarily that anyone who is in the US illegally, or with falsified documents, is likely not to be vaccinated. This can expose other children and parents to anything from measles to tuberculosis.
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: Karina
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: maestra
Comments are closed-
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: I was here when you came
Posted by: Karina
Comments are closed-
Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saddened but not surprised by many of the comments. This issue really brings out the ugliest, most selfish part of many Americans.
Being in this country without valid papers is not a crime -- it's a civil code violation like letting one's vehicle registration expire. Entering the country without crossing a checkpoint is a class B misdemeanor, the equivalent of passing a bad check for a small sum, like $25 or $50.
So here we have all of these commenters, some of whom probably claim to be progressive-minded people, who see no problem with Homeland Security harassing the children of people who might (or might not) have committed a class B misdemeanor.
It shouldn't matter what one thinks about immigration in the larger sense, there are still other principles in play when it comes to ICE goon squads screwing with school children. Basic human empathy is what's lacking here.
Being in this country without valid papers is not a crime -- it's a civil code violation like letting one's vehicle registration expire. Entering the country without crossing a checkpoint is a class B misdemeanor, the equivalent of passing a bad check for a small sum, like $25 or $50.
So here we have all of these commenters, some of whom probably claim to be progressive-minded people, who see no problem with Homeland Security harassing the children of people who might (or might not) have committed a class B misdemeanor.
It shouldn't matter what one thinks about immigration in the larger sense, there are still other principles in play when it comes to ICE goon squads screwing with school children. Basic human empathy is what's lacking here.
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: BreeMass
» Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: hoohah
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: hoohah
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Did you miss this part?
Posted by: Techubus
» You are mistaken; illegal aliens have committed a crime
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Factually incorrect
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Factually incorrect
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Try again
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» 9-11 was an inside job.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: maestra
» RE: Well sayed, Josh n/t
Posted by: Techubus
» Hmmph...
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» If you fail to pay your registration
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: If you fail to pay your registration
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am very tired of articles such as this that try desperately to drum up sympathy for ILLEGALS.
I am tired of the crowded emergency rooms and paying for the health care and education of ILLEGALS.
If they are ILLEGAL they are costing us a fortune!
I am tired of the crowded emergency rooms and paying for the health care and education of ILLEGALS.
If they are ILLEGAL they are costing us a fortune!
» I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: Karina
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: BreeMass
» Hunh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hunh
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Hunh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Karina is correct
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Um ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» How about HELL
Posted by: Mexitli
» Are YOU here legally?
Posted by: Mexitli
» Hell yeah I am here LEGALLY
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» If you're tired ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: About the 'election'
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
Comments are closed-
What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In response to the posts on here about how much it costs to educate illegals and provide them with healthcare:
Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars into the system in the form of payroll taxes that they never get back. In some years the surplus is as high as $9 billion dollars in unclaimed tax money. When the math is calculated, illegal immigrants pay way more into the system then they ever get back in social services. If you would like a reference on this, please see “Immigration in America Today” (Greenwood Publishing Group, August 2006) for starters.
It is not the fault of illegals that the government is spending more money on various occupations and military exercises throughout the worl then they are on education and health care. As I said in another post, immigrants always have and will continue to be a great scapegoat for the government and the people who buy into this farce need to do a bit of fact-checking before spouting off at the mouth about how much illegals cost us. Illegals wars, stupid programs like Star Wars and so many other of our military misadventures cost more money than illegal immigrants could ever hope to cost us.
Full disclosure: I am a natural born American citizen with anywhere from five to eight generations here in the US behind me...
Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars into the system in the form of payroll taxes that they never get back. In some years the surplus is as high as $9 billion dollars in unclaimed tax money. When the math is calculated, illegal immigrants pay way more into the system then they ever get back in social services. If you would like a reference on this, please see “Immigration in America Today” (Greenwood Publishing Group, August 2006) for starters.
It is not the fault of illegals that the government is spending more money on various occupations and military exercises throughout the worl then they are on education and health care. As I said in another post, immigrants always have and will continue to be a great scapegoat for the government and the people who buy into this farce need to do a bit of fact-checking before spouting off at the mouth about how much illegals cost us. Illegals wars, stupid programs like Star Wars and so many other of our military misadventures cost more money than illegal immigrants could ever hope to cost us.
Full disclosure: I am a natural born American citizen with anywhere from five to eight generations here in the US behind me...
» Adding ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Great point!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us?? Mucho dinero!!
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
On immigration in general
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a very dear friend who married an illegal immigrant from Mexico. This man came from a poverty stricken area in Mexico with no jobs, no educational opportunities and very little hope for any opportunity whatsoever. When he came to the US he walked five days through the desert to get here so he could get a job bussing tables for the elite in a major American city. He works his ass off, he pays taxes (but gets no money in refunds - see my above post), but now can't apply for citizenship even though he's married to a citizen because of laws passed under the current administration which disqualify him because he went to Mexico to take care of his mother and got caught on the way out (ironic, right?) so now he's in the system as an immigration violator. So, he walked five days through the desert and is now back working the same shit job and hoping a new law under a new administration will allow him to apply for citizenship so he can stay and contribute to the American way of life.
Now really, why do we hate him again? From my perspective, any one who will walk here through the desert for five days TWICE to bus tables for the rich and entitled should be welcomed with open arms. If an immigrant, illegal or otherwise, commits a serious crime, then by all means, deport him. But again, why exactly do we hate this man? Because he wants the American Dream? Because he took to heart the message on the Statue of Liberty? Or because he didn't want to stay in Mexico and be a poor Mexican with no job for the rest of his life (for which, I'm sure, most of you would hate him too).
This is not "bleeding heart liberalism" - this is about human rights and human dignity. If he and millions others like him are willing to come and contribute to our economy and way of life, despite how he is treated, why should we not allow it?
Now really, why do we hate him again? From my perspective, any one who will walk here through the desert for five days TWICE to bus tables for the rich and entitled should be welcomed with open arms. If an immigrant, illegal or otherwise, commits a serious crime, then by all means, deport him. But again, why exactly do we hate this man? Because he wants the American Dream? Because he took to heart the message on the Statue of Liberty? Or because he didn't want to stay in Mexico and be a poor Mexican with no job for the rest of his life (for which, I'm sure, most of you would hate him too).
This is not "bleeding heart liberalism" - this is about human rights and human dignity. If he and millions others like him are willing to come and contribute to our economy and way of life, despite how he is treated, why should we not allow it?
» The Oldest Trick in the Book
Posted by: perkywa
» RE: On immigration in general
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: On immigration in general
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: On immigration in general . . . wrong
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Mexico and the USA will be one country in our lifetime.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Mexico and the USA will be one country in our lifetime.
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» scary, isn't it?
Posted by: ptown
Comments are closed-
Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let the countries of the ILLEGALS support their own citizens.
This country can not even support the health care of our own poor and we take on the health care, education, feeding, and public services for millions who are here ILLEGALLY!
This country can not even support the health care of our own poor and we take on the health care, education, feeding, and public services for millions who are here ILLEGALLY!
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: BreeMass
» Adding...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: THIS COUNTRY CANNOT EVEN SUPPORT HEALTH CARE
Posted by: fearn
Comments are closed-
Iraq?
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps if we have the capability to handle the large influx of immigration, we should prioritize the immigrants/refugees of the country we destroyed? Seems they are the ones who deserve US public services.
» RE: Iraq?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I have read/heard...it isn't nicey nice.
Including minefields along the Guatamalan border.
And other countries...Canada, the EU, etc., I understand they give illegals short shrift.
Including minefields along the Guatamalan border.
And other countries...Canada, the EU, etc., I understand they give illegals short shrift.
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: froghat
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Mexico just passed a new law
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Mexico just passed a new law
Posted by: SOWILO
Comments are closed-
Public "Education" is a SCAM!!!
Posted by: perkywa on May 8, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: perkywa on May 8, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you know there was NO forced public "education" in this country before 1910? Do you also know that the reading proficiency of WWI inductees was 98.5% and that after 2 generations of "education" (Vietnam inductees) reading proficiency had dropped to 74%?
Public "education" is nothing more then behavior modification for the masses to make sure they don't think for themselves...and I'd say it is working perfectly. The public "education" idea sprang from the same place the eugenics movement came from...Elitist foundations (Ford, Carnegie and Rockefeller foundations) and captains of industry at the turn of the last century. The purpose is to create an ignorant mass that will spend themselves into oblivion, be good soldiers and Walmart Employees (or factory workers) and never question their "leaders".
In todays "education" system Thomas Edison (total of ZERO years of "school") would be in "special ed", Ben Franklin (total of 18 months of "school") would be in reform school and George Washington (2 years of "school" to learn Trigonometry and Surveying) would be in prison.
Why do we send our children off to a prison every day to be cared for by strangers we almost never meet?
Read this book and find out...
The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto a decorated Teacher of 30 years (1961 to 1992) who wrote this book after 10 years of research.
Public "education" is nothing more then behavior modification for the masses to make sure they don't think for themselves...and I'd say it is working perfectly. The public "education" idea sprang from the same place the eugenics movement came from...Elitist foundations (Ford, Carnegie and Rockefeller foundations) and captains of industry at the turn of the last century. The purpose is to create an ignorant mass that will spend themselves into oblivion, be good soldiers and Walmart Employees (or factory workers) and never question their "leaders".
In todays "education" system Thomas Edison (total of ZERO years of "school") would be in "special ed", Ben Franklin (total of 18 months of "school") would be in reform school and George Washington (2 years of "school" to learn Trigonometry and Surveying) would be in prison.
Why do we send our children off to a prison every day to be cared for by strangers we almost never meet?
Read this book and find out...
The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto a decorated Teacher of 30 years (1961 to 1992) who wrote this book after 10 years of research.
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: perkywa
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: froghat
Comments are closed-
Sad
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The saddest part of these comments/discussions/debates is that people on all sides resort to name calling, pettiness and insults. Perhaps if everyone would just make their points and hear others without all of the "you're a moron" crap, we'd get somewhere.
A different opinion doesn't make you ignorant, racist, bleeding heart, insert any other way of cutting each other down here. One can site their own experiences as background for their opinion and that is perfectly valid. But we don't care about each others stories. We want to get out our own opinions and tell anyone who disagrees what an idiot they are.
A different opinion doesn't make you ignorant, racist, bleeding heart, insert any other way of cutting each other down here. One can site their own experiences as background for their opinion and that is perfectly valid. But we don't care about each others stories. We want to get out our own opinions and tell anyone who disagrees what an idiot they are.
» RE: Sad
Posted by: BreeMass
Comments are closed-
The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose there may be some people who have never violated a minor law in their lives, and they can certainly scream their heads off about "ILLEGALS" (so often written, child-like, in all caps) in good faith.
But immigration violations -- I'm not talking about human trafficking laws, just plain old immigration violations -- are incredibly minor. A civil code violation, a class B misdemeanor...
And most of those who are such devoted law-and-order types on this issue have jay-walked or driven more than 25 miles an hour over the speed limit or smoked a joint or possessed small amounts of marijuana or driven with an expired license. In those cases, it's very difficult to imagine a more clear-cut case of hypocrisy.
But immigration violations -- I'm not talking about human trafficking laws, just plain old immigration violations -- are incredibly minor. A civil code violation, a class B misdemeanor...
And most of those who are such devoted law-and-order types on this issue have jay-walked or driven more than 25 miles an hour over the speed limit or smoked a joint or possessed small amounts of marijuana or driven with an expired license. In those cases, it's very difficult to imagine a more clear-cut case of hypocrisy.
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: froghat
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Baal_Labs
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Arizona...maybe Vermont will be happy to host them.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Uh Josh..
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well . . . Not!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well . . . Not!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
my letter from Norman
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Dear Joe:
Here's hoping everything's been going ok for you. Sorry to hear you lost that programming job to that H1B visa guy, but hey--he needed it more than you did, and just remember you are helping to make American a truly multi-cultural Nirvana!
Too bad also that Joey Jr. can't get that job with the lawn care company again this summer. It would really have helped in the fix you are in. But, you know, those Guatemalan guys are more deserving of the work then your son. And of course both of you are white racist fascist pigs, and you have to atone for the land your housing development is built on--land stolen from the Baca-Baca Indians back in 1649!
I'm sorry to hear that Joey Jr. has been noticing that many of his classmates are "were fidgeting in their seats and seemed distracted", as a recent article about this subject on the Alternet website put it. Oh, the poor dears! They're probably worried because Dad has just lost his job to some illegals willing to work for 1/3 the pay.
Things have been going just swell for me. Now that my college has been forced to grant free/in-state tuition to illegal aliens, the enrollment of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Columbians, Venezuelans has quadrupled! I have been promoted from Associate Professor of Social Studies to head of the college's new Department of Immigrant Help and Hispanic Integration!
My wife Mary is moving up also. The elementary school has seen an explosion non-English speaking students, and with the mandate that they have to be given full and unfettered instruction in their native tongue, well--her Spanish lessons she took way back are sure paying off!. We can now afford that Lexus and to send the kids to that private school! Too bad they won't be able to participate in the ethnic Wonderland being created in the Public Schools, but they are benefiting from it from a distance; what with the financial windfall it has been for their Mom and Dad.
I have some suggestions for you to cope:
Hang a Mexican flag from your porch
Surround your house with attack dogs
Park 10 or 12 old wrecker cars in the driveway
Claim "no habla englais" when the authorities want to ask you questions
And if worse comes to worse, you can always climb the fence into Mexico in the middle of the night. I have heard that--with the massive influx of illegals into the U.S.--that they have need of workers at those $1.00/day factory jobs down there.
Let me just close by saying: "tough shit, you fat white racist pig!
Your friend in multi-culturarity,
Norman
Here's hoping everything's been going ok for you. Sorry to hear you lost that programming job to that H1B visa guy, but hey--he needed it more than you did, and just remember you are helping to make American a truly multi-cultural Nirvana!
Too bad also that Joey Jr. can't get that job with the lawn care company again this summer. It would really have helped in the fix you are in. But, you know, those Guatemalan guys are more deserving of the work then your son. And of course both of you are white racist fascist pigs, and you have to atone for the land your housing development is built on--land stolen from the Baca-Baca Indians back in 1649!
I'm sorry to hear that Joey Jr. has been noticing that many of his classmates are "were fidgeting in their seats and seemed distracted", as a recent article about this subject on the Alternet website put it. Oh, the poor dears! They're probably worried because Dad has just lost his job to some illegals willing to work for 1/3 the pay.
Things have been going just swell for me. Now that my college has been forced to grant free/in-state tuition to illegal aliens, the enrollment of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Columbians, Venezuelans has quadrupled! I have been promoted from Associate Professor of Social Studies to head of the college's new Department of Immigrant Help and Hispanic Integration!
My wife Mary is moving up also. The elementary school has seen an explosion non-English speaking students, and with the mandate that they have to be given full and unfettered instruction in their native tongue, well--her Spanish lessons she took way back are sure paying off!. We can now afford that Lexus and to send the kids to that private school! Too bad they won't be able to participate in the ethnic Wonderland being created in the Public Schools, but they are benefiting from it from a distance; what with the financial windfall it has been for their Mom and Dad.
I have some suggestions for you to cope:
Hang a Mexican flag from your porch
Surround your house with attack dogs
Park 10 or 12 old wrecker cars in the driveway
Claim "no habla englais" when the authorities want to ask you questions
And if worse comes to worse, you can always climb the fence into Mexico in the middle of the night. I have heard that--with the massive influx of illegals into the U.S.--that they have need of workers at those $1.00/day factory jobs down there.
Let me just close by saying: "tough shit, you fat white racist pig!
Your friend in multi-culturarity,
Norman
Comments are closed-
IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
whether from Canada, Mexico, the Phillipines, Guatamala or Great Britain, you cannot expect to have everything be catered to you.
I do not feel sorry for those kids. Their parents are screw-ups. If you think I'm an ass for saying this, then I can't help you.
I'm sorry. This is a big reason why the Left can't make inroads with the white working class and why the white working class vote Republican against their best interests.
BTW- the Southwest doesn't belong to Mexico anymore. They lost it fair and square!!!
I do not feel sorry for those kids. Their parents are screw-ups. If you think I'm an ass for saying this, then I can't help you.
I'm sorry. This is a big reason why the Left can't make inroads with the white working class and why the white working class vote Republican against their best interests.
BTW- the Southwest doesn't belong to Mexico anymore. They lost it fair and square!!!
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: froghat
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MEXICO LOST THE SOUTHWEST AND IT AIN'T GETTIN' IT BACK.
THE REVOLUTION AIN'T HAPPENIN' FOR YA!!!
What are you going to do? Attack us with leaf-blowers?
THE REVOLUTION AIN'T HAPPENIN' FOR YA!!!
What are you going to do? Attack us with leaf-blowers?
» RE: HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: trewqwert
» RE: HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: SOWILO
» America is a continant
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: America is a continant
Posted by: SOWILO
» You love me?
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 3:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 3:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. If you come here legally- welcome!!! Nice to meet you. What's your name? Here's the opportunity for a job.
2. If you are here, illegally: GET OUT!!!
Listen, as a working class guy with no health insurance, I do not want any more people here illegally eating up resources.
2. If you are here, illegally: GET OUT!!!
Listen, as a working class guy with no health insurance, I do not want any more people here illegally eating up resources.
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» We'll see who leaves
Posted by: Mexitli
» I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: SOWILO
» Ya, so on priciple
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: BreeMass
Comments are closed-
Our Hearts Aren't "Bleeding", They're FUNCTIONING (+ A Challenge)
Posted by: grumble-bum on May 8, 2008 4:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: grumble-bum on May 8, 2008 4:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story disturbed me considerably. If even only a portion of the ICE actions mentioned occurred as reported, I'm hard pressed to find a more clear case of cowardly intimidation. Talk about "domestic terrorism".
Beats me as to where this flood of truly misshapen souls has come from to troll Alternet with their twisted concept of Patriotism & lack of perspective. I would guess that word has gotten out among the Right-catering blogs that Alternet now has an immigration-issues section. Or, perhaps, we're just seeing the results of that brief fling with the Paulites? Regardless, I for one want them gone.
The irony.
Of course, our war against these "unwanted immigrants" will be waged with words, not by letting them know, in no uncertain terms, that we can get to them through their children at any time.
So, to all our new Anti-American "residents", I offer the following challenge;
1.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "sucking up the resources", "taking all the medical", or "stealing" any privilege reserved for upstanding citizens such as yourselves. The rules for this section are simple. The "illegal" in question must actually exist, outside of that chain email you got (from the same relative who's always forwarding stuff about Obama being the head of the Taliban In Chicago). You must actually have met the "illegal" in question who harmed you in this manner, or else have two sources of verification of the alleged harm (perhaps the victim & a local news story, for instance).
2.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "depressing wages" or denying eager native citizens the jobs they desperately need. Again, this can't be second, third, or five-thousandth hand information. It'll be a tricky one too, since it's usually employers who depress wages, & the "good, LEGAL" Americans who have been "hurt" will have to have actually wanted the poverty-wage jobs. So even if you know the specifics of some guy that "took" your job at the chicken processing plant, but ever were heard to say "shit, I was gonna quit that shitty job, anyway", then you've ceded the point.
3.) List one, just one, example of an actual, LEGAL immigrant who you actually personally know who resents the "ease" with which ILLEGALS enter this country. Once again, you'll need to present proof that this person isn't a fiction created by some wannabe- Limbaugh blogger somewhere. & just like your mythical "one Black Friend", you have to know this person well enough to have heard them express this supposed resentment out loud, instead of just using your acquaintance as a justification for your own bigotry.
SPECIAL BONUS for the real aficionados:
4.) Cite one, just one, example of literal preparation by Hispanics to stage either a violent campaign, or one involving simple reproduction, to retake the Southwestern States, or any other section of the country. Agitating protected free speech that speaks to racial self-esteem/pride doesn't count (if it did, then all you xenophobes would be in deep shit, right?). I want locations of secret arms caches, troop movements, examples of covert ops, etc. Or, alternately, times & locations or methods of organized fornification.
Have fun playing, & good luck!
Beats me as to where this flood of truly misshapen souls has come from to troll Alternet with their twisted concept of Patriotism & lack of perspective. I would guess that word has gotten out among the Right-catering blogs that Alternet now has an immigration-issues section. Or, perhaps, we're just seeing the results of that brief fling with the Paulites? Regardless, I for one want them gone.
The irony.
Of course, our war against these "unwanted immigrants" will be waged with words, not by letting them know, in no uncertain terms, that we can get to them through their children at any time.
So, to all our new Anti-American "residents", I offer the following challenge;
1.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "sucking up the resources", "taking all the medical", or "stealing" any privilege reserved for upstanding citizens such as yourselves. The rules for this section are simple. The "illegal" in question must actually exist, outside of that chain email you got (from the same relative who's always forwarding stuff about Obama being the head of the Taliban In Chicago). You must actually have met the "illegal" in question who harmed you in this manner, or else have two sources of verification of the alleged harm (perhaps the victim & a local news story, for instance).
2.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "depressing wages" or denying eager native citizens the jobs they desperately need. Again, this can't be second, third, or five-thousandth hand information. It'll be a tricky one too, since it's usually employers who depress wages, & the "good, LEGAL" Americans who have been "hurt" will have to have actually wanted the poverty-wage jobs. So even if you know the specifics of some guy that "took" your job at the chicken processing plant, but ever were heard to say "shit, I was gonna quit that shitty job, anyway", then you've ceded the point.
3.) List one, just one, example of an actual, LEGAL immigrant who you actually personally know who resents the "ease" with which ILLEGALS enter this country. Once again, you'll need to present proof that this person isn't a fiction created by some wannabe- Limbaugh blogger somewhere. & just like your mythical "one Black Friend", you have to know this person well enough to have heard them express this supposed resentment out loud, instead of just using your acquaintance as a justification for your own bigotry.
SPECIAL BONUS for the real aficionados:
4.) Cite one, just one, example of literal preparation by Hispanics to stage either a violent campaign, or one involving simple reproduction, to retake the Southwestern States, or any other section of the country. Agitating protected free speech that speaks to racial self-esteem/pride doesn't count (if it did, then all you xenophobes would be in deep shit, right?). I want locations of secret arms caches, troop movements, examples of covert ops, etc. Or, alternately, times & locations or methods of organized fornification.
Have fun playing, & good luck!
» RE: Oh man, wow
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Our Hearts Aren't "Bleeding", They're FUNCTIONING (+ A Challenge)
Posted by: SOWILO
» that what your people did
Posted by: Mexitli
» Damn Straight You Give Up.
Posted by: grumble-bum
» A linked response to your "Bonus Question."
Posted by: SOWILO
» hahahaha
Posted by: Mexitli
» Feh. Pathetic. (RE: Your Linked "Response")
Posted by: grumble-bum
Comments are closed-
Europeans Came Illegally
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now leave.
damned illegals.
damned illegals.
Comments are closed-
LOSERS!
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:17 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:17 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Picking on CHILDREN!
damned losers!
damned losers!
» RE: LOSERS!
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
"Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems America always needs her "scapegoats." During the 1920's and on into the 1960's, it was the Blacks. The Klan, especially in the South, had to "protect the White women," and keep "those darkies from taking whities jobs," etc., etc. Seems some things never change. According to some, all of America's problems are those "damn illegals." Yep, they come here, and they are the reason you cannot get medical care, or you cannot get a job even at Wal-Mart's (never mind if you cannot read good enough to fill out the application, that's the "illegal" fault also). It goes on and on, doesn't it. As for most of them "illegals" being "brown skinned," well that just makes good redneck sense. More of them darkies, corrupting our society, once again. Never ends, does it?
» RE: "Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
"Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems America always needs her "scapegoats." During the 1920's and on into the 1960's, it was the Blacks. The Klan, especially in the South, had to "protect the White women," and keep "those darkies from taking whities jobs," etc., etc. Seems some things never change. According to some, all of America's problems are those "damn illegals." Yep, they come here, and they are the reason you cannot get medical care, or you cannot get a job even at Wal-Mart's (never mind if you cannot read good enough to fill out the application, that's the "illegal" fault also). It goes on and on, doesn't it. As for most of them "illegals" being "brown skinned," well that just makes good redneck sense. More of them darkies, corrupting our society, once again. Never ends, does it?
Comments are closed-
A Great Quote
Posted by: bryangalt on May 8, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bryangalt on May 8, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read this quote from an article concerning animal intelligence testing and I find it to be more that applicable to the discussion string on this blog:
"Are humans actually aware of the world they live in? So far the results are inconclusive."-- VERLYN KLINKENBORG
In this blog today, we are showing our true American spirits. We are writing down what we really think. We are so spoild, arrogant and disengaged from the rest of reality, that any boogey-man will work when it comes to deflecting our gaze from that face in the mirror.
The facts are clear for anyone who realizes what the word "fact" means. In case you need a refresher, here's the Webster's (una-Bushed version):
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime carchaic : action
2archaic : performance, doing
3: the quality of being actual : actuality
4 a: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth
Item #5 is where the American collective always seems to go the most haywire. Doesn't it ever strike anyone as odd that in the "Information Age" there are so many people that cannot seem to distinguish a fact from their fat asses?
Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the military, law-enforcement, intelligence spending programs under Mr. Bush (who is indeed the biggest idiot to ever lead a country-and that is a FACT), have steadily accelerated while nuisance programs like education, health care and food programs have steadily decreased?
I am presuming that there are probably some paper-Christians who have responded here today-you know the type. They bleed Bible-verses about how great Jesus was alledged to have been, while at the same time they are bitching that an illegal immigrant is going to steal his job at the Dairy Queen. If you aren't sure what Jesus would have to say about your attitude, then you are indeed a paper-Christian (which ironically will make it easier for you to burn in hell...lol).
Finally, I strongly urge you to visit Cost of War to find out why we don't have health car, good jobs, good schools, smooth roads, etc.
The fact that we, as custodians of our Constitution, worry more about gardeners and busboys crossing the border to pick up our shit, while the American corporations are allowed to charge us $50,000,000 for a SINGLE AIRCRAFT (the new F-35, still in development with costs over $235 Billion already sunk into this black hole/ops program), then it isn't the illegal people that don't deserve any services, NO ONE DOES.
Obviously, we really don't want them enough to get off our collective fat asses to find out what is truly the problem and then take the actions needed to fix it.
That would be work...perhaps a job for some illegals...
"Are humans actually aware of the world they live in? So far the results are inconclusive."-- VERLYN KLINKENBORG
In this blog today, we are showing our true American spirits. We are writing down what we really think. We are so spoild, arrogant and disengaged from the rest of reality, that any boogey-man will work when it comes to deflecting our gaze from that face in the mirror.
The facts are clear for anyone who realizes what the word "fact" means. In case you need a refresher, here's the Webster's (una-Bushed version):
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime carchaic : action
2archaic : performance, doing
3: the quality of being actual : actuality
4 a: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth
Item #5 is where the American collective always seems to go the most haywire. Doesn't it ever strike anyone as odd that in the "Information Age" there are so many people that cannot seem to distinguish a fact from their fat asses?
Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the military, law-enforcement, intelligence spending programs under Mr. Bush (who is indeed the biggest idiot to ever lead a country-and that is a FACT), have steadily accelerated while nuisance programs like education, health care and food programs have steadily decreased?
I am presuming that there are probably some paper-Christians who have responded here today-you know the type. They bleed Bible-verses about how great Jesus was alledged to have been, while at the same time they are bitching that an illegal immigrant is going to steal his job at the Dairy Queen. If you aren't sure what Jesus would have to say about your attitude, then you are indeed a paper-Christian (which ironically will make it easier for you to burn in hell...lol).
Finally, I strongly urge you to visit Cost of War to find out why we don't have health car, good jobs, good schools, smooth roads, etc.
The fact that we, as custodians of our Constitution, worry more about gardeners and busboys crossing the border to pick up our shit, while the American corporations are allowed to charge us $50,000,000 for a SINGLE AIRCRAFT (the new F-35, still in development with costs over $235 Billion already sunk into this black hole/ops program), then it isn't the illegal people that don't deserve any services, NO ONE DOES.
Obviously, we really don't want them enough to get off our collective fat asses to find out what is truly the problem and then take the actions needed to fix it.
That would be work...perhaps a job for some illegals...
Comments are closed-
Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: stilldreaming on May 8, 2008 7:47 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: stilldreaming on May 8, 2008 7:47 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an immigrant myself, I see no obligation on part of the American people to educate for free an undetermined number of children of undocumented, uncounted, ungrateful, illegal immigrants.
We want to help children, but there is no obligation. There is a pragmatic side of prefering to have educated illegals on US soil than completely illiterate ones. Being in US schools might be a great way for kids born in a different country to integrate in the American culture. This would work well, except we have such a high, and growing, proportion of kids who don't speak English well in schools.
Are Americans obligated to pay taxes to support an ever-growing number of kids who are here courtesy of their illegal parents, who broke the law?!
Yes, American employers break the law as well. Should they be liable for much higher taxes, to support the education of undocumented kids?
How many of these childrens education we we want to sponsor? Do we accept the growing number? (we have, so far .. we didn't get 12 million or so illegals overnight)
So, immigrants: you are here in the US because you *want* to be here. Say THANK YOU to your gracious, generous American hosts. To the American teachers who help you learn English. To the American health system, graciously extending care to you. To a culture, here in the US, which treats immigrants with respect (for the most part.)
If you don't like, go home.
We want to help children, but there is no obligation. There is a pragmatic side of prefering to have educated illegals on US soil than completely illiterate ones. Being in US schools might be a great way for kids born in a different country to integrate in the American culture. This would work well, except we have such a high, and growing, proportion of kids who don't speak English well in schools.
Are Americans obligated to pay taxes to support an ever-growing number of kids who are here courtesy of their illegal parents, who broke the law?!
Yes, American employers break the law as well. Should they be liable for much higher taxes, to support the education of undocumented kids?
How many of these childrens education we we want to sponsor? Do we accept the growing number? (we have, so far .. we didn't get 12 million or so illegals overnight)
So, immigrants: you are here in the US because you *want* to be here. Say THANK YOU to your gracious, generous American hosts. To the American teachers who help you learn English. To the American health system, graciously extending care to you. To a culture, here in the US, which treats immigrants with respect (for the most part.)
If you don't like, go home.
» RE: Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I disagree, Joshua -- Americans are incredibly charitable
Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: I disagree, Joshua -- Americans are incredibly charitable
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: PaulK on May 8, 2008 7:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: PaulK on May 8, 2008 7:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, we can hold the ideal that we don't want two billion of the world's poorest people to flood the US. They wouldn't fit. If we enforced the immigration laws by charging Wal-Mart with slavery every time they held people imprisoned in their stores on the night shift, maybe there wouldn't be so much illegal immigration. Enslaving North Korean women for prostitution (if they squeal, they'll be sent home and then killed) should equally be a high-punishment felony.
Second, we can hold the ideal that immigrants (or their descendants) should eventually become U.S. citizens. When babies are smuggled in, they learn to speak English in school. Transporting them back to their "native country" is cruel if they don't know the language. Holding these kids-adults for years in our very worst subhuman prisons is also barbaric. I've heard horror stories about guards quitting because of the constant screaming in a tiny underground room stuffed with 50 slaves, er, excludables.
For those kids who were born here, telling these kids that they can stay but their parents have to be deported is also pretty strange. Some real nut made these rules.
So, what's your rule? When do you deport people? Up to one hour after sneaking over the border? Up to forty years? What if they have kids?
What if an employer actively helped them? What does the government do if they snitched on the crook/employer and deportation is the employer's revenge?
C'mon, you're not all political candidates, and you're anonymous. What's a good line to draw?
Second, we can hold the ideal that immigrants (or their descendants) should eventually become U.S. citizens. When babies are smuggled in, they learn to speak English in school. Transporting them back to their "native country" is cruel if they don't know the language. Holding these kids-adults for years in our very worst subhuman prisons is also barbaric. I've heard horror stories about guards quitting because of the constant screaming in a tiny underground room stuffed with 50 slaves, er, excludables.
For those kids who were born here, telling these kids that they can stay but their parents have to be deported is also pretty strange. Some real nut made these rules.
So, what's your rule? When do you deport people? Up to one hour after sneaking over the border? Up to forty years? What if they have kids?
What if an employer actively helped them? What does the government do if they snitched on the crook/employer and deportation is the employer's revenge?
C'mon, you're not all political candidates, and you're anonymous. What's a good line to draw?
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: bryangalt
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: deang on May 8, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: deang on May 8, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The racism of US white people raises its head once again. And a few token Blacks and brown-skinned right-wingers towing the white anti-immigrant line doesn't change that fact. You whitists are actually defending these Nazi-redolent actions against children and their families, and many of you even admit that you wouldn't be upset about immigration if the immigrants were white, documented or not. Sometimes these days I have to remind myself that I'm living in the year 2008 and not 1898. Dark-skinned immigrants coming here are not a "problem" - there is no "immigrant problem." White people's congenital hostility toward people of darker hue is the real problem, and that's true of people of European ancestry throughout the world. A lot of you commenters act as though the policies of white Americans imposed on these people's countries of origin had nothing to do with them coming here. And then you define the dark-skinned ones as "illegal", forgetting that laws are human constructions that can be changed at human whim. It has disgusted me to see the right-wing campaign against dark-skinned immigrants poison the minds of white people even in my home state of Texas, a region where whites and brown-skinned folks have lived together relatively amicably for centuries. You people are sick.
» RE: white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: billfaster
» RE: white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: Spock
Comments are closed-
The Mongoose Trick - speaking truth to tyranny
Posted by: Spock on May 9, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Spock on May 9, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if I rob a bank, the police who come looking for me are being cruel to my children? WHO is being "cruel?" These people took their kids to a crime they intended to commit. Now that they're caught, they want to hold their kids' interests hostage? When the IRS took everything I'd worked all my life to build, destroyed my businesses and took steps to assure I'd never be employed again, and destroyed in the hideous process not one, but two, marriages and scattered my family to the four winds, where were all the hearts bleeding for illegal aliens? What the hell kind of twisted reasoning is this? Easy - it's political propaganda.
» Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Spock
» RE: Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Brittanicus on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Brittanicus on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author of this article fails to mention, who is paying for the parasite employers profit margin? Who is paying for the overcrowded schools, subsidized housing, food stamps, baby delivery and all the billions of dollars in free health care. That is just a small portion of the billions of dollars skimmed off taxpayer dollars to pay for the welfare of predator businesses.
Why do you think that other states have enacted their own immigration employer sanction laws. Because those states that include Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have had enough of taxpayers underwriting pariah employers profits. They gain, you lose...?
All the Sanctuary Cities better watch out...? Because now that Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have enacted their own Immigration laws. The thousands that are leaving these swamped states must be going somewhere...? LOS ANGELES? They have Special Order 40, a haven for violent gangs of animals.
San Francisco? Salt Lake City or even Denver, Colorado. Is your community a SANCTUARY CITY, that lets the illegal immigration hordes feed from the welfare trough?
We know now that the majority of Democrats are INTENTIONALLY STOPPING the federal SAVE ACT (H.R. 4088) because they are waiting for the new president to sign another AMNESTY. For taxpayers it would be a nationwide catastrophe. NUMBERSUSA.
Keep calling your Congressmen today to co-author THE SAVE ACT! KEEP CONSTRUCTING THE FENCE! Toll free numbers include 18778516437 and 18662200044, or 12022243121 AND REGISTER YOUR OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to keep our country from enforcing its immigration laws!
Why do you think that other states have enacted their own immigration employer sanction laws. Because those states that include Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have had enough of taxpayers underwriting pariah employers profits. They gain, you lose...?
All the Sanctuary Cities better watch out...? Because now that Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have enacted their own Immigration laws. The thousands that are leaving these swamped states must be going somewhere...? LOS ANGELES? They have Special Order 40, a haven for violent gangs of animals.
San Francisco? Salt Lake City or even Denver, Colorado. Is your community a SANCTUARY CITY, that lets the illegal immigration hordes feed from the welfare trough?
We know now that the majority of Democrats are INTENTIONALLY STOPPING the federal SAVE ACT (H.R. 4088) because they are waiting for the new president to sign another AMNESTY. For taxpayers it would be a nationwide catastrophe. NUMBERSUSA.
Keep calling your Congressmen today to co-author THE SAVE ACT! KEEP CONSTRUCTING THE FENCE! Toll free numbers include 18778516437 and 18662200044, or 12022243121 AND REGISTER YOUR OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to keep our country from enforcing its immigration laws!
» who's paying, that's the environment, species which die off
Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Sad. Can We Deport Stupid People?
Posted by: URALSR on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: URALSR on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cause we have loads, too many infact. It's evident by the number of posts. Oh, wait! Let's make everyone in America, national and foreign take a test. Then ship the spoiled fruit to the dump. I know I should be sympathetic toward stupid people, but it's hard man. Especially after reading the comments sections of online publications.
Comments are closed-
Human shields
Posted by: darkhorse on May 9, 2008 12:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: darkhorse on May 9, 2008 12:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The illegal aliens (and their lobbists) should stop using children as human shields in their war on America.
The children are innocents but no one, no one except their parents, have put them in this jeopardy willfully and gleefully in order to skirt the laws and grab privileges from others.
It's shameful.
The children are innocents but no one, no one except their parents, have put them in this jeopardy willfully and gleefully in order to skirt the laws and grab privileges from others.
It's shameful.
Comments are closed-
Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on May 9, 2008 1:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on May 9, 2008 1:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
has brought the xenophobes, nativists, nationalists and volksnazis.
WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS HERE. Can I say it louder?
We displaced the rightful occupants, the Indians. Who's calling the kettle African American now? The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons. To the complainers: stop feeling effing sorry for your miserable spoiled Americanasses and adapt, or be darwined away.
WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS HERE. Can I say it louder?
We displaced the rightful occupants, the Indians. Who's calling the kettle African American now? The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons. To the complainers: stop feeling effing sorry for your miserable spoiled Americanasses and adapt, or be darwined away.
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: URALSR
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: AGeach
» Mexicans ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: Spock
Comments are closed-
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Comments are closed-
Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: shaynafay on May 9, 2008 2:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: shaynafay on May 9, 2008 2:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not too far away from the elementary school, on High St. near International, is a "Day Laborer Assembly Area" aka illegal immigrant place to wait for someone to pick me up for a job. There are dozens of men hanging out here all day. All the ICE would have to do is roll up and start detaining. But everyone knows why that won't happen.
Our economy relies on those day laborers. If it weren't for them gardens wouldn't get landscaped, houses wouldn't be remodeled, and fences wouldn't be constructed. The ICE sees the women and children as drains on the economy, using up precious education resources. But they are way wrong.
That 17 year old taking the AP exam - my daughter goes to school with him. After school he works almost every day at a restaurant so his family has enough money to put food on the table and pay rent. His mom, the one who was picking up the little kids from school, she is your housekeeper. You see America, where we live in CA, it takes 3 or 4 adults working to make ends meet.
If the ICE were ever completely successful, the economy would collapse, because the work that the immigrants do, holds up the rest of us on their shoulders - just like the Diego Rivera mural!
Our economy relies on those day laborers. If it weren't for them gardens wouldn't get landscaped, houses wouldn't be remodeled, and fences wouldn't be constructed. The ICE sees the women and children as drains on the economy, using up precious education resources. But they are way wrong.
That 17 year old taking the AP exam - my daughter goes to school with him. After school he works almost every day at a restaurant so his family has enough money to put food on the table and pay rent. His mom, the one who was picking up the little kids from school, she is your housekeeper. You see America, where we live in CA, it takes 3 or 4 adults working to make ends meet.
If the ICE were ever completely successful, the economy would collapse, because the work that the immigrants do, holds up the rest of us on their shoulders - just like the Diego Rivera mural!
» RE: Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: Spock
Comments are closed-
mexitli
Posted by: AGeach on May 9, 2008 2:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: AGeach on May 9, 2008 2:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You call Americans "squaters", but you don't stop to think.
FIRST: We FOUGHT for and WON the land that is ALL the USA!!!
SECOND: If we had not taken it, Texas, AZ, etc. would all be part of the filthy SLUMS, that are quite nicely represented by border towns, such as Nogales and Tijuana! Mexico has done so good by their own land and people.
The wealth and pride of this nation was NOT built on a wealth that originated with and was taken from Mexico. It was BUILT on the land that like so many other nations in the world have done, the US fought for and claimed.
Mexico has many wealth resort areas. Mexicans should be looking to those places and people to GIVE THEM all that they are demanding from a nation that has more than subsidized their country for many years.
Illegals can actually protest in our streets here, with little or no fear (otherwise they would have all been rounded up and deported on the first May Day march.) They do not, and most likely cannot do so in their own country. Well, that does not justify demanding so much from a country that they have come to illegally, and many with NO intention of assimilating.
It takes a lot of nerve to do what the illegals have done for so long here, and then DEMAND anything. I have no sympathy for "5 day walks" "crossing the hot desert" "left my family behind" waaaaa waaaaa waaaaaa!!!!!
That is a choice they made. A BAD choice, so live with the consequences. Better yet, go back to where you came from, and DEMAND that the Mexican government and people give you free food, medical, education, housing etc. THEY owe it to you!!! WE DO NOT!!! You are NOT entitled to it, and you DO NOT have a RIGHT to it.
If you have stolen someones SS# and as the bleeding hearts here like to claim, are paying income taxes that you "supposedly" cannot get a refund from (they can and do get it, there are tax preparers helping these criminals get it) then consider it a small price to pay for the financial problems you are causing the person who's number you stole!!!
We weren't squaters we were WINNERS!!!
FIRST: We FOUGHT for and WON the land that is ALL the USA!!!
SECOND: If we had not taken it, Texas, AZ, etc. would all be part of the filthy SLUMS, that are quite nicely represented by border towns, such as Nogales and Tijuana! Mexico has done so good by their own land and people.
The wealth and pride of this nation was NOT built on a wealth that originated with and was taken from Mexico. It was BUILT on the land that like so many other nations in the world have done, the US fought for and claimed.
Mexico has many wealth resort areas. Mexicans should be looking to those places and people to GIVE THEM all that they are demanding from a nation that has more than subsidized their country for many years.
Illegals can actually protest in our streets here, with little or no fear (otherwise they would have all been rounded up and deported on the first May Day march.) They do not, and most likely cannot do so in their own country. Well, that does not justify demanding so much from a country that they have come to illegally, and many with NO intention of assimilating.
It takes a lot of nerve to do what the illegals have done for so long here, and then DEMAND anything. I have no sympathy for "5 day walks" "crossing the hot desert" "left my family behind" waaaaa waaaaa waaaaaa!!!!!
That is a choice they made. A BAD choice, so live with the consequences. Better yet, go back to where you came from, and DEMAND that the Mexican government and people give you free food, medical, education, housing etc. THEY owe it to you!!! WE DO NOT!!! You are NOT entitled to it, and you DO NOT have a RIGHT to it.
If you have stolen someones SS# and as the bleeding hearts here like to claim, are paying income taxes that you "supposedly" cannot get a refund from (they can and do get it, there are tax preparers helping these criminals get it) then consider it a small price to pay for the financial problems you are causing the person who's number you stole!!!
We weren't squaters we were WINNERS!!!
» RE: mexitli
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I am where I came from
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I am where I came from
Posted by: AGeach
» Dummy
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
It's the huge numbers of illegal aliens in the country that is generating anger against them
Posted by: Paul1939 on May 10, 2008 12:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Paul1939 on May 10, 2008 12:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mexiti's assertion that all EU countries provide education to illegal aliens sounded inaccurate to me based on my experience while living in Europe so I decided to check on Italy's policy. I found that he was correct with respect to Italy; they do in fact provide elementary school education to all children regardless of their parent's status. The assertion, however, is sophistic. Unlike the US, Italy has few illegal aliens and strong laws strictly enforced to keep it that way. I found a number of examples of how Italy enforces it laws against illegal aliens, and have listed three to make my point:
"Anyone who facilitates the entry of an illegal alien is subject to threes year in jail and a €15.000 financial penalty..." If they facilitate for profit, the jail time increases to four years, and the financial penalty increases to €25,000.
"Anyone who helps illegal aliens to stay in Italy for illegal activities or in order to wrongfully benefit from such an illegal stay, shall also be punished with up to four years’ imprisonment and €15.493,70 financial penalty."
"Any employer who hires a foreign worker bearing no residence permit for work reasons, or whose permit has expired (unless the alien has already applied for its renewal) or whose permit has been revoked or canceled, shall be punished with 3 to 12 months’ imprisonment and a with a €5000 financial penalty for each hired worker."
If the US had penalties such as those in Italy and strictly enforced those penalties, as does Italy, then I too would favor providing education to illegal alien children while their parents are processed for deportation. The trouble is that the US does not enforce the weak laws it has. The US has tens of millions of illegal alien children, and the resources required to provide an education for these children, in their own language no less, is enormous.
The US education system is already in crisis mode, in large part, for lack of funds; we simply cannot afford to spend tens of billions of dollars educating the children of other nations. We need every available dollar to improve the educational level of our own children. It is illogical to take badly needed money from the children of US citizens and give it to children illegally in our country. WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS? Those who support this irrational policy have the burden of proof to justify why foreign children are more valuable to them than are US children!
Education is only one of the problems that is either the direct result of or is exacerbated in large measure by illegal aliens. Here is a list you should have the courage to consider and evaluate: overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, pollution, environmental damage, crime, diminishing resources, diseases, lack of affordable housing, depressed wages, underground economy, fraudulent documents, identity thief, tax invasion, soaring crime rate, increased tax burdens, overcrowded schools, uneducated children, overcrowded prisons, inadequate health care, the balkanization of our communities and a large and growing population with loyalty to other nations, the overall decline in our quality of life. In fact, can you think of any problem, on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way, aided, assisted, or advanced, by having continued population growth--at the local level, the state level, or the national level?
Those US citizens who support amnesty for the 12-20+ million illegal aliens in the US and a more coming every year had better begin to think of the consequences of that choice, and how it will play out for your descendents.
Visit NumbersUSA.org and view their video “Immigration by the Numbers”.
Visit Google Videos and view video (Bartlett.wmv), “Arithmetic, Population and Energy.” by Professor Albert Bartlett.
"Anyone who facilitates the entry of an illegal alien is subject to threes year in jail and a €15.000 financial penalty..." If they facilitate for profit, the jail time increases to four years, and the financial penalty increases to €25,000.
"Anyone who helps illegal aliens to stay in Italy for illegal activities or in order to wrongfully benefit from such an illegal stay, shall also be punished with up to four years’ imprisonment and €15.493,70 financial penalty."
"Any employer who hires a foreign worker bearing no residence permit for work reasons, or whose permit has expired (unless the alien has already applied for its renewal) or whose permit has been revoked or canceled, shall be punished with 3 to 12 months’ imprisonment and a with a €5000 financial penalty for each hired worker."
If the US had penalties such as those in Italy and strictly enforced those penalties, as does Italy, then I too would favor providing education to illegal alien children while their parents are processed for deportation. The trouble is that the US does not enforce the weak laws it has. The US has tens of millions of illegal alien children, and the resources required to provide an education for these children, in their own language no less, is enormous.
The US education system is already in crisis mode, in large part, for lack of funds; we simply cannot afford to spend tens of billions of dollars educating the children of other nations. We need every available dollar to improve the educational level of our own children. It is illogical to take badly needed money from the children of US citizens and give it to children illegally in our country. WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS? Those who support this irrational policy have the burden of proof to justify why foreign children are more valuable to them than are US children!
Education is only one of the problems that is either the direct result of or is exacerbated in large measure by illegal aliens. Here is a list you should have the courage to consider and evaluate: overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, pollution, environmental damage, crime, diminishing resources, diseases, lack of affordable housing, depressed wages, underground economy, fraudulent documents, identity thief, tax invasion, soaring crime rate, increased tax burdens, overcrowded schools, uneducated children, overcrowded prisons, inadequate health care, the balkanization of our communities and a large and growing population with loyalty to other nations, the overall decline in our quality of life. In fact, can you think of any problem, on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way, aided, assisted, or advanced, by having continued population growth--at the local level, the state level, or the national level?
Those US citizens who support amnesty for the 12-20+ million illegal aliens in the US and a more coming every year had better begin to think of the consequences of that choice, and how it will play out for your descendents.
Visit NumbersUSA.org and view their video “Immigration by the Numbers”.
Visit Google Videos and view video (Bartlett.wmv), “Arithmetic, Population and Energy.” by Professor Albert Bartlett.
» WRONG!
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
About Numbers USA and John Tanton, Roy Beck
Posted by: Mexitli on May 10, 2008 3:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 10, 2008 3:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
The Mongoose Trick - speaking truth to tyranny & tyrants
Posted by: Spock on May 11, 2008 12:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Spock on May 11, 2008 12:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just for the record, imagine what would happen, were all the arguments and comments here subject to the rules of logic and forensic debate. In all sincerity - assuming sincerity on the part of participants - I suggest that we all go to a logic page here on the Internet, and check our reasoning. It should prove interesting. Illogical argument, you know, proves absolutely nothing, and without logic, no one has any way to assess the validity of what you say. You waste our time, in other words.
» It's about HATE, Bud
Posted by: Mexitli
Alternet Comments:
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: wmb1957
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: wmm
» France, Germany, Spain, England
Posted by: Mexitli
» The yuppy upper class leftists on this site don't send their kids to public school
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: The yuppy upper class leftists on this site don't send their kids to public school
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: This yuppy upper class (?) leftists sent her kids to public school
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: I could have swarn it was the upper class, rightwing..
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: allUneedislove
» The National Origins Act
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: nancylove
» RE: "SUCK UP THE RESOURCES"
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: jay1967
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: Amerikagulag
» RE: Hi pot, I'd like you to meet kettle, you two have Sooo much in common
Posted by: Techubus
» Not the same thing
Posted by: Mexitli
» My thoughts exactly.
Posted by: deang
» RE: They're everywhere . . . they're everwhere!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: ninethreeone
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: ninethreeone
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: The laws and the US government
Posted by: fearn
» RE: The law is wrong
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Clearly, you do not know the law
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Clearly, you lack compassion
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Clearly, you do not know the law
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Clearly as Americans we can neither read, know or follow our own laws...
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How do the Mexican authorities do it? a question..
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: How do the Mexican authorities do it? An answer . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: USA
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: USA
Posted by: fearn
» RE: USA
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: USA
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Spock
» RE: USA
Posted by: AGeach
» RE: USA
Posted by: adan_4_u
» Buey
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Why RE-Name it?
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: Karina
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: maestra
» RE: I was here when you came
Posted by: Karina
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: BreeMass
» Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: hoohah
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: hoohah
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Did you miss this part?
Posted by: Techubus
» You are mistaken; illegal aliens have committed a crime
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Factually incorrect
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Factually incorrect
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Try again
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» 9-11 was an inside job.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: maestra
» RE: Well sayed, Josh n/t
Posted by: Techubus
» Hmmph...
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» If you fail to pay your registration
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: If you fail to pay your registration
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: Karina
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: BreeMass
» Hunh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hunh
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Hunh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Karina is correct
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Um ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» How about HELL
Posted by: Mexitli
» Are YOU here legally?
Posted by: Mexitli
» Hell yeah I am here LEGALLY
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» If you're tired ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: About the 'election'
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» Adding ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Great point!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us?? Mucho dinero!!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» The Oldest Trick in the Book
Posted by: perkywa
» RE: On immigration in general
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: On immigration in general
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: On immigration in general . . . wrong
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Mexico and the USA will be one country in our lifetime.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Mexico and the USA will be one country in our lifetime.
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» scary, isn't it?
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: BreeMass
» Adding...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: THIS COUNTRY CANNOT EVEN SUPPORT HEALTH CARE
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Iraq?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: froghat
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Mexico just passed a new law
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Mexico just passed a new law
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: perkywa
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: froghat
» RE: Sad
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: froghat
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Baal_Labs
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Arizona...maybe Vermont will be happy to host them.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Uh Josh..
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well . . . Not!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well . . . Not!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: froghat
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: trewqwert
» RE: HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: SOWILO
» America is a continant
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: America is a continant
Posted by: SOWILO
» You love me?
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» We'll see who leaves
Posted by: Mexitli
» I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: SOWILO
» Ya, so on priciple
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Oh man, wow
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Our Hearts Aren't "Bleeding", They're FUNCTIONING (+ A Challenge)
Posted by: SOWILO
» that what your people did
Posted by: Mexitli
» Damn Straight You Give Up.
Posted by: grumble-bum
» A linked response to your "Bonus Question."
Posted by: SOWILO
» hahahaha
Posted by: Mexitli
» Feh. Pathetic. (RE: Your Linked "Response")
Posted by: grumble-bum
» RE: LOSERS!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: "Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I disagree, Joshua -- Americans are incredibly charitable
Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: I disagree, Joshua -- Americans are incredibly charitable
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: bryangalt
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: billfaster
» RE: white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: Spock
» Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Spock
» RE: Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» who's paying, that's the environment, species which die off
Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: URALSR
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: AGeach
» Mexicans ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: Spock
» RE: Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: Spock
» RE: mexitli
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I am where I came from
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I am where I came from
Posted by: AGeach
» Dummy
Posted by: Mexitli
» WRONG!
Posted by: Mexitli
» It's about HATE, Bud
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: michael1972 on May 8, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: michael1972 on May 8, 2008 1:16 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our school systems are over crowded and as sad as it may be the parents of these children took that risk by coming here illegally. If the current laws of this country are being enforced, then those who are here illegally do not have the right to complain.
It is the responsibility of Latin America (Mexico, El-Salvador and so on) to educate their own people. I do not want my tax dollars being spent on those come here illegally and suck up the resources that should be reserved for all legal citizens (black, brown, red, yellow or white people). The truth must me told.
It is the responsibility of Latin America (Mexico, El-Salvador and so on) to educate their own people. I do not want my tax dollars being spent on those come here illegally and suck up the resources that should be reserved for all legal citizens (black, brown, red, yellow or white people). The truth must me told.
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: wmb1957
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: wmm
» France, Germany, Spain, England
Posted by: Mexitli
» The yuppy upper class leftists on this site don't send their kids to public school
Posted by: blogbooks
» RE: The yuppy upper class leftists on this site don't send their kids to public school
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: This yuppy upper class (?) leftists sent her kids to public school
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: I could have swarn it was the upper class, rightwing..
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: allUneedislove
» The National Origins Act
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: nancylove
» RE: "SUCK UP THE RESOURCES"
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: jay1967
» RE: Immigrants should know the risk
Posted by: Amerikagulag
Comments are closed-
Typical "American " Racism
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 4:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 4:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the ignorant slob to the government jack booted thug.
Of the white, for the white, by the white.
Of the white, for the white, by the white.
» RE: Hi pot, I'd like you to meet kettle, you two have Sooo much in common
Posted by: Techubus
» Not the same thing
Posted by: Mexitli
» My thoughts exactly.
Posted by: deang
Comments are closed-
ICE activity happening across the country
Posted by: ICERaidReport on May 8, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ICERaidReport on May 8, 2008 6:15 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is interesting is how the ICE regional authorities in different parts of the country have all handled their task in vastly different manners. If you're like me, and follow the subject of immigration enforcement closely, you may be interested in my blog of news articles that is updated daily: http://raidreport.blogspot.com.
Comments are closed-
I need an anchor wife for my illegal former student
Posted by: ptown on May 8, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ptown on May 8, 2008 6:28 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can you help ??? I have a young friend who just turned 18. He is now facing deportation. He's been in the USA since he was 7 years old. He grew up in East Palo Alto. He needs an immigrants rights activist to marry him, like RIGHT NOW. Today. Got any sweet girls under 25 who will walk their talk and get this guy legal?
He's a sweetheart but he's impulsive so he does have a felony and tons of juvenile priors. Truly, I'd marry him myself but I'm old enough to be his mother.
He's a sweetheart but he's impulsive so he does have a felony and tons of juvenile priors. Truly, I'd marry him myself but I'm old enough to be his mother.
» RE: They're everywhere . . . they're everwhere!
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
ninethreeone
Posted by: ninethreeone on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: ninethreeone on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The raids are happening.The laws are finally being enforced. We hear sad stories of "families being torn apart." Isn't it better to keep them together--in their own country? Any parent who comes here illegally "to make a better life for the children" will decide that it's better to go home and wait their turn. And there will be no upsetting cellphone calls.
» RE: ninethreeone
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: ninethreeone
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: The laws and the US government
Posted by: fearn
» RE: The law is wrong
Posted by: Techubus
Comments are closed-
Clearly as Americans we can neither read, know or follow our own laws...
Posted by: the baron on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: the baron on May 8, 2008 6:30 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It was clearly stated in this article that the teachers' job(s) regardless of registration as a lawful, citizen, or as a legal resident immigrant, or illegal immigrant that the children should be taught.
Second should a child be born within this country they are automatically a citizen of this country; and their parents are then given citizenship. Whether or not this law is still on the books, let alone actually followed anymore is obviously in question.
Third, clearly some hear have not heard of paranoia. Regardless of being a legal immigrant, or lawful citizen, some I'm sure are fearful that just because of decent, or relation to an illegal they will be deported. It appears that not only have we forgotten our history (Japanese interment camps here during WWII, and more recently Arabs in Guantanamo Bay WOT(present day)), we have not learned from it.
Second should a child be born within this country they are automatically a citizen of this country; and their parents are then given citizenship. Whether or not this law is still on the books, let alone actually followed anymore is obviously in question.
Third, clearly some hear have not heard of paranoia. Regardless of being a legal immigrant, or lawful citizen, some I'm sure are fearful that just because of decent, or relation to an illegal they will be deported. It appears that not only have we forgotten our history (Japanese interment camps here during WWII, and more recently Arabs in Guantanamo Bay WOT(present day)), we have not learned from it.
» RE: Clearly, you do not know the law
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Clearly, you lack compassion
Posted by: fearn
» RE: Clearly, you do not know the law
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Clearly as Americans we can neither read, know or follow our own laws...
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
How do the Mexican authorities do it? a question..
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 7:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 7:26 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am an American who has snuck across the border in the middle of the night into Mexico. I have my kids enrolled in a Mexican school. What would the Mexican authorities do to me and my kids?
» RE: How do the Mexican authorities do it? a question..
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: How do the Mexican authorities do it? An answer . . .
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
USA
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 7:40 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Racist white trash nation!
» RE: USA
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: USA
Posted by: fearn
» RE: USA
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: USA
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Thanks asshole
Posted by: Spock
» RE: USA
Posted by: AGeach
» RE: USA
Posted by: adan_4_u
» Buey
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: sneakertogo on May 8, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sneakertogo on May 8, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Scuuuuse me ! while this is a bad situtation - personally I am sick and tired of supporting the se people! I live in AZ - and we are getting ready to rename our State to: Mexizona! They keep coming draining us dry! don't balme those that are getting fed yup with this mess! Blame the parents that come here getting all kinds of benefits while us that work hard are nor able to afford healthcare etc etc etc .. why don't you take care and pay for all the women that get pregnant sliver across the border give birth here and the kids are automatically American citizens ! Only in america - Its totally insane! I recommend yo get off your self righteous high horse, and stop acting like a Cause Junkie ....
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Why RE-Name it?
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: Illegal Immigrants Children
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
Undocumented Children
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 8:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 8:57 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Speaking as a parent, there are dangers that are not being addressed. Primarily that anyone who is in the US illegally, or with falsified documents, is likely not to be vaccinated. This can expose other children and parents to anything from measles to tuberculosis.
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: Karina
» RE: Undocumented Children
Posted by: maestra
Comments are closed-
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: I was here when you came
Posted by: Karina
Comments are closed-
Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 9:06 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Saddened but not surprised by many of the comments. This issue really brings out the ugliest, most selfish part of many Americans.
Being in this country without valid papers is not a crime -- it's a civil code violation like letting one's vehicle registration expire. Entering the country without crossing a checkpoint is a class B misdemeanor, the equivalent of passing a bad check for a small sum, like $25 or $50.
So here we have all of these commenters, some of whom probably claim to be progressive-minded people, who see no problem with Homeland Security harassing the children of people who might (or might not) have committed a class B misdemeanor.
It shouldn't matter what one thinks about immigration in the larger sense, there are still other principles in play when it comes to ICE goon squads screwing with school children. Basic human empathy is what's lacking here.
Being in this country without valid papers is not a crime -- it's a civil code violation like letting one's vehicle registration expire. Entering the country without crossing a checkpoint is a class B misdemeanor, the equivalent of passing a bad check for a small sum, like $25 or $50.
So here we have all of these commenters, some of whom probably claim to be progressive-minded people, who see no problem with Homeland Security harassing the children of people who might (or might not) have committed a class B misdemeanor.
It shouldn't matter what one thinks about immigration in the larger sense, there are still other principles in play when it comes to ICE goon squads screwing with school children. Basic human empathy is what's lacking here.
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: BreeMass
» Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: hoohah
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: hoohah
» RE: Children? We must be reading different articles.
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Did you miss this part?
Posted by: Techubus
» You are mistaken; illegal aliens have committed a crime
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Factually incorrect
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Factually incorrect
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» Try again
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» 9-11 was an inside job.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: maestra
» RE: Well sayed, Josh n/t
Posted by: Techubus
» Hmmph...
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Hmmph...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» If you fail to pay your registration
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: If you fail to pay your registration
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Issue really throws off people's moral compass
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:25 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am very tired of articles such as this that try desperately to drum up sympathy for ILLEGALS.
I am tired of the crowded emergency rooms and paying for the health care and education of ILLEGALS.
If they are ILLEGAL they are costing us a fortune!
I am tired of the crowded emergency rooms and paying for the health care and education of ILLEGALS.
If they are ILLEGAL they are costing us a fortune!
» I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: Karina
» RE: I'm tired of YOU!
Posted by: BreeMass
» Hunh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Hunh
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Hunh
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Karina is correct
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Um ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» How about HELL
Posted by: Mexitli
» Are YOU here legally?
Posted by: Mexitli
» Hell yeah I am here LEGALLY
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Tired of Bleeding Heart Articles.
Posted by: drmflorida
» If you're tired ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: It's so easy for you...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: About the 'election'
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: If you're tired ...
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave
Comments are closed-
What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:35 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In response to the posts on here about how much it costs to educate illegals and provide them with healthcare:
Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars into the system in the form of payroll taxes that they never get back. In some years the surplus is as high as $9 billion dollars in unclaimed tax money. When the math is calculated, illegal immigrants pay way more into the system then they ever get back in social services. If you would like a reference on this, please see “Immigration in America Today” (Greenwood Publishing Group, August 2006) for starters.
It is not the fault of illegals that the government is spending more money on various occupations and military exercises throughout the worl then they are on education and health care. As I said in another post, immigrants always have and will continue to be a great scapegoat for the government and the people who buy into this farce need to do a bit of fact-checking before spouting off at the mouth about how much illegals cost us. Illegals wars, stupid programs like Star Wars and so many other of our military misadventures cost more money than illegal immigrants could ever hope to cost us.
Full disclosure: I am a natural born American citizen with anywhere from five to eight generations here in the US behind me...
Illegal immigrants pay billions of dollars into the system in the form of payroll taxes that they never get back. In some years the surplus is as high as $9 billion dollars in unclaimed tax money. When the math is calculated, illegal immigrants pay way more into the system then they ever get back in social services. If you would like a reference on this, please see “Immigration in America Today” (Greenwood Publishing Group, August 2006) for starters.
It is not the fault of illegals that the government is spending more money on various occupations and military exercises throughout the worl then they are on education and health care. As I said in another post, immigrants always have and will continue to be a great scapegoat for the government and the people who buy into this farce need to do a bit of fact-checking before spouting off at the mouth about how much illegals cost us. Illegals wars, stupid programs like Star Wars and so many other of our military misadventures cost more money than illegal immigrants could ever hope to cost us.
Full disclosure: I am a natural born American citizen with anywhere from five to eight generations here in the US behind me...
» Adding ...
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Great point!
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: hms2004
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: adan_4_u
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us??
Posted by: drmflorida
» RE: What exactly are illegals costing us?? Mucho dinero!!
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
On immigration in general
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: BreeMass on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have a very dear friend who married an illegal immigrant from Mexico. This man came from a poverty stricken area in Mexico with no jobs, no educational opportunities and very little hope for any opportunity whatsoever. When he came to the US he walked five days through the desert to get here so he could get a job bussing tables for the elite in a major American city. He works his ass off, he pays taxes (but gets no money in refunds - see my above post), but now can't apply for citizenship even though he's married to a citizen because of laws passed under the current administration which disqualify him because he went to Mexico to take care of his mother and got caught on the way out (ironic, right?) so now he's in the system as an immigration violator. So, he walked five days through the desert and is now back working the same shit job and hoping a new law under a new administration will allow him to apply for citizenship so he can stay and contribute to the American way of life.
Now really, why do we hate him again? From my perspective, any one who will walk here through the desert for five days TWICE to bus tables for the rich and entitled should be welcomed with open arms. If an immigrant, illegal or otherwise, commits a serious crime, then by all means, deport him. But again, why exactly do we hate this man? Because he wants the American Dream? Because he took to heart the message on the Statue of Liberty? Or because he didn't want to stay in Mexico and be a poor Mexican with no job for the rest of his life (for which, I'm sure, most of you would hate him too).
This is not "bleeding heart liberalism" - this is about human rights and human dignity. If he and millions others like him are willing to come and contribute to our economy and way of life, despite how he is treated, why should we not allow it?
Now really, why do we hate him again? From my perspective, any one who will walk here through the desert for five days TWICE to bus tables for the rich and entitled should be welcomed with open arms. If an immigrant, illegal or otherwise, commits a serious crime, then by all means, deport him. But again, why exactly do we hate this man? Because he wants the American Dream? Because he took to heart the message on the Statue of Liberty? Or because he didn't want to stay in Mexico and be a poor Mexican with no job for the rest of his life (for which, I'm sure, most of you would hate him too).
This is not "bleeding heart liberalism" - this is about human rights and human dignity. If he and millions others like him are willing to come and contribute to our economy and way of life, despite how he is treated, why should we not allow it?
» The Oldest Trick in the Book
Posted by: perkywa
» RE: On immigration in general
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: On immigration in general
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: On immigration in general . . . wrong
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Mexico and the USA will be one country in our lifetime.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: Mexico and the USA will be one country in our lifetime.
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» scary, isn't it?
Posted by: ptown
Comments are closed-
Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: lavonneann on May 8, 2008 9:45 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let the countries of the ILLEGALS support their own citizens.
This country can not even support the health care of our own poor and we take on the health care, education, feeding, and public services for millions who are here ILLEGALLY!
This country can not even support the health care of our own poor and we take on the health care, education, feeding, and public services for millions who are here ILLEGALLY!
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: lavonneann
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: BreeMass
» Adding...
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: Let the countries of the ILLEGALS
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: THIS COUNTRY CANNOT EVEN SUPPORT HEALTH CARE
Posted by: fearn
Comments are closed-
Iraq?
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 9:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Perhaps if we have the capability to handle the large influx of immigration, we should prioritize the immigrants/refugees of the country we destroyed? Seems they are the ones who deserve US public services.
» RE: Iraq?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 9:59 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From what I have read/heard...it isn't nicey nice.
Including minefields along the Guatamalan border.
And other countries...Canada, the EU, etc., I understand they give illegals short shrift.
Including minefields along the Guatamalan border.
And other countries...Canada, the EU, etc., I understand they give illegals short shrift.
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: froghat
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: How does Mexico treat illegal aliens?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Mexico just passed a new law
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Mexico just passed a new law
Posted by: SOWILO
Comments are closed-
Public "Education" is a SCAM!!!
Posted by: perkywa on May 8, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: perkywa on May 8, 2008 10:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you know there was NO forced public "education" in this country before 1910? Do you also know that the reading proficiency of WWI inductees was 98.5% and that after 2 generations of "education" (Vietnam inductees) reading proficiency had dropped to 74%?
Public "education" is nothing more then behavior modification for the masses to make sure they don't think for themselves...and I'd say it is working perfectly. The public "education" idea sprang from the same place the eugenics movement came from...Elitist foundations (Ford, Carnegie and Rockefeller foundations) and captains of industry at the turn of the last century. The purpose is to create an ignorant mass that will spend themselves into oblivion, be good soldiers and Walmart Employees (or factory workers) and never question their "leaders".
In todays "education" system Thomas Edison (total of ZERO years of "school") would be in "special ed", Ben Franklin (total of 18 months of "school") would be in reform school and George Washington (2 years of "school" to learn Trigonometry and Surveying) would be in prison.
Why do we send our children off to a prison every day to be cared for by strangers we almost never meet?
Read this book and find out...
The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto a decorated Teacher of 30 years (1961 to 1992) who wrote this book after 10 years of research.
Public "education" is nothing more then behavior modification for the masses to make sure they don't think for themselves...and I'd say it is working perfectly. The public "education" idea sprang from the same place the eugenics movement came from...Elitist foundations (Ford, Carnegie and Rockefeller foundations) and captains of industry at the turn of the last century. The purpose is to create an ignorant mass that will spend themselves into oblivion, be good soldiers and Walmart Employees (or factory workers) and never question their "leaders".
In todays "education" system Thomas Edison (total of ZERO years of "school") would be in "special ed", Ben Franklin (total of 18 months of "school") would be in reform school and George Washington (2 years of "school" to learn Trigonometry and Surveying) would be in prison.
Why do we send our children off to a prison every day to be cared for by strangers we almost never meet?
Read this book and find out...
The Underground History of American Education by John Taylor Gatto a decorated Teacher of 30 years (1961 to 1992) who wrote this book after 10 years of research.
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: tulugaq
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: perkywa
» RE: Public Education has increased literacy
Posted by: froghat
Comments are closed-
Sad
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Karina on May 8, 2008 10:51 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The saddest part of these comments/discussions/debates is that people on all sides resort to name calling, pettiness and insults. Perhaps if everyone would just make their points and hear others without all of the "you're a moron" crap, we'd get somewhere.
A different opinion doesn't make you ignorant, racist, bleeding heart, insert any other way of cutting each other down here. One can site their own experiences as background for their opinion and that is perfectly valid. But we don't care about each others stories. We want to get out our own opinions and tell anyone who disagrees what an idiot they are.
A different opinion doesn't make you ignorant, racist, bleeding heart, insert any other way of cutting each other down here. One can site their own experiences as background for their opinion and that is perfectly valid. But we don't care about each others stories. We want to get out our own opinions and tell anyone who disagrees what an idiot they are.
» RE: Sad
Posted by: BreeMass
Comments are closed-
The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Joshua Holland on May 8, 2008 12:16 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose there may be some people who have never violated a minor law in their lives, and they can certainly scream their heads off about "ILLEGALS" (so often written, child-like, in all caps) in good faith.
But immigration violations -- I'm not talking about human trafficking laws, just plain old immigration violations -- are incredibly minor. A civil code violation, a class B misdemeanor...
And most of those who are such devoted law-and-order types on this issue have jay-walked or driven more than 25 miles an hour over the speed limit or smoked a joint or possessed small amounts of marijuana or driven with an expired license. In those cases, it's very difficult to imagine a more clear-cut case of hypocrisy.
But immigration violations -- I'm not talking about human trafficking laws, just plain old immigration violations -- are incredibly minor. A civil code violation, a class B misdemeanor...
And most of those who are such devoted law-and-order types on this issue have jay-walked or driven more than 25 miles an hour over the speed limit or smoked a joint or possessed small amounts of marijuana or driven with an expired license. In those cases, it's very difficult to imagine a more clear-cut case of hypocrisy.
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: froghat
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Baal_Labs
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» Arizona...maybe Vermont will be happy to host them.
Posted by: ptown
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well
Posted by: countingdaisies
» Uh Josh..
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: darkhorse
» RE: Uh Josh..
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well . . . Not!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: The hypocrisy is rather striking as well . . . Not!
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
my letter from Norman
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 8, 2008 1:21 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Dear Joe:
Here's hoping everything's been going ok for you. Sorry to hear you lost that programming job to that H1B visa guy, but hey--he needed it more than you did, and just remember you are helping to make American a truly multi-cultural Nirvana!
Too bad also that Joey Jr. can't get that job with the lawn care company again this summer. It would really have helped in the fix you are in. But, you know, those Guatemalan guys are more deserving of the work then your son. And of course both of you are white racist fascist pigs, and you have to atone for the land your housing development is built on--land stolen from the Baca-Baca Indians back in 1649!
I'm sorry to hear that Joey Jr. has been noticing that many of his classmates are "were fidgeting in their seats and seemed distracted", as a recent article about this subject on the Alternet website put it. Oh, the poor dears! They're probably worried because Dad has just lost his job to some illegals willing to work for 1/3 the pay.
Things have been going just swell for me. Now that my college has been forced to grant free/in-state tuition to illegal aliens, the enrollment of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Columbians, Venezuelans has quadrupled! I have been promoted from Associate Professor of Social Studies to head of the college's new Department of Immigrant Help and Hispanic Integration!
My wife Mary is moving up also. The elementary school has seen an explosion non-English speaking students, and with the mandate that they have to be given full and unfettered instruction in their native tongue, well--her Spanish lessons she took way back are sure paying off!. We can now afford that Lexus and to send the kids to that private school! Too bad they won't be able to participate in the ethnic Wonderland being created in the Public Schools, but they are benefiting from it from a distance; what with the financial windfall it has been for their Mom and Dad.
I have some suggestions for you to cope:
Hang a Mexican flag from your porch
Surround your house with attack dogs
Park 10 or 12 old wrecker cars in the driveway
Claim "no habla englais" when the authorities want to ask you questions
And if worse comes to worse, you can always climb the fence into Mexico in the middle of the night. I have heard that--with the massive influx of illegals into the U.S.--that they have need of workers at those $1.00/day factory jobs down there.
Let me just close by saying: "tough shit, you fat white racist pig!
Your friend in multi-culturarity,
Norman
Here's hoping everything's been going ok for you. Sorry to hear you lost that programming job to that H1B visa guy, but hey--he needed it more than you did, and just remember you are helping to make American a truly multi-cultural Nirvana!
Too bad also that Joey Jr. can't get that job with the lawn care company again this summer. It would really have helped in the fix you are in. But, you know, those Guatemalan guys are more deserving of the work then your son. And of course both of you are white racist fascist pigs, and you have to atone for the land your housing development is built on--land stolen from the Baca-Baca Indians back in 1649!
I'm sorry to hear that Joey Jr. has been noticing that many of his classmates are "were fidgeting in their seats and seemed distracted", as a recent article about this subject on the Alternet website put it. Oh, the poor dears! They're probably worried because Dad has just lost his job to some illegals willing to work for 1/3 the pay.
Things have been going just swell for me. Now that my college has been forced to grant free/in-state tuition to illegal aliens, the enrollment of Mexicans, Guatemalans, Hondurans, Columbians, Venezuelans has quadrupled! I have been promoted from Associate Professor of Social Studies to head of the college's new Department of Immigrant Help and Hispanic Integration!
My wife Mary is moving up also. The elementary school has seen an explosion non-English speaking students, and with the mandate that they have to be given full and unfettered instruction in their native tongue, well--her Spanish lessons she took way back are sure paying off!. We can now afford that Lexus and to send the kids to that private school! Too bad they won't be able to participate in the ethnic Wonderland being created in the Public Schools, but they are benefiting from it from a distance; what with the financial windfall it has been for their Mom and Dad.
I have some suggestions for you to cope:
Hang a Mexican flag from your porch
Surround your house with attack dogs
Park 10 or 12 old wrecker cars in the driveway
Claim "no habla englais" when the authorities want to ask you questions
And if worse comes to worse, you can always climb the fence into Mexico in the middle of the night. I have heard that--with the massive influx of illegals into the U.S.--that they have need of workers at those $1.00/day factory jobs down there.
Let me just close by saying: "tough shit, you fat white racist pig!
Your friend in multi-culturarity,
Norman
Comments are closed-
IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:26 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
whether from Canada, Mexico, the Phillipines, Guatamala or Great Britain, you cannot expect to have everything be catered to you.
I do not feel sorry for those kids. Their parents are screw-ups. If you think I'm an ass for saying this, then I can't help you.
I'm sorry. This is a big reason why the Left can't make inroads with the white working class and why the white working class vote Republican against their best interests.
BTW- the Southwest doesn't belong to Mexico anymore. They lost it fair and square!!!
I do not feel sorry for those kids. Their parents are screw-ups. If you think I'm an ass for saying this, then I can't help you.
I'm sorry. This is a big reason why the Left can't make inroads with the white working class and why the white working class vote Republican against their best interests.
BTW- the Southwest doesn't belong to Mexico anymore. They lost it fair and square!!!
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: froghat
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: SOWILO
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY (THANK YOU!!!)
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: IF YOU ARE HERE ILLEGALLY
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 2:32 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
MEXICO LOST THE SOUTHWEST AND IT AIN'T GETTIN' IT BACK.
THE REVOLUTION AIN'T HAPPENIN' FOR YA!!!
What are you going to do? Attack us with leaf-blowers?
THE REVOLUTION AIN'T HAPPENIN' FOR YA!!!
What are you going to do? Attack us with leaf-blowers?
» RE: HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: trewqwert
» RE: HEY MEXITLI
Posted by: SOWILO
» America is a continant
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: America is a continant
Posted by: SOWILO
» You love me?
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 3:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: SOWILO on May 8, 2008 3:27 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. If you come here legally- welcome!!! Nice to meet you. What's your name? Here's the opportunity for a job.
2. If you are here, illegally: GET OUT!!!
Listen, as a working class guy with no health insurance, I do not want any more people here illegally eating up resources.
2. If you are here, illegally: GET OUT!!!
Listen, as a working class guy with no health insurance, I do not want any more people here illegally eating up resources.
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: This is how simple it could be:
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» We'll see who leaves
Posted by: Mexitli
» I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: BreeMass
» RE: I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: SOWILO
» Ya, so on priciple
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I think you are looking at the wrong perpetrators
Posted by: BreeMass
Comments are closed-
Our Hearts Aren't "Bleeding", They're FUNCTIONING (+ A Challenge)
Posted by: grumble-bum on May 8, 2008 4:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: grumble-bum on May 8, 2008 4:53 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story disturbed me considerably. If even only a portion of the ICE actions mentioned occurred as reported, I'm hard pressed to find a more clear case of cowardly intimidation. Talk about "domestic terrorism".
Beats me as to where this flood of truly misshapen souls has come from to troll Alternet with their twisted concept of Patriotism & lack of perspective. I would guess that word has gotten out among the Right-catering blogs that Alternet now has an immigration-issues section. Or, perhaps, we're just seeing the results of that brief fling with the Paulites? Regardless, I for one want them gone.
The irony.
Of course, our war against these "unwanted immigrants" will be waged with words, not by letting them know, in no uncertain terms, that we can get to them through their children at any time.
So, to all our new Anti-American "residents", I offer the following challenge;
1.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "sucking up the resources", "taking all the medical", or "stealing" any privilege reserved for upstanding citizens such as yourselves. The rules for this section are simple. The "illegal" in question must actually exist, outside of that chain email you got (from the same relative who's always forwarding stuff about Obama being the head of the Taliban In Chicago). You must actually have met the "illegal" in question who harmed you in this manner, or else have two sources of verification of the alleged harm (perhaps the victim & a local news story, for instance).
2.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "depressing wages" or denying eager native citizens the jobs they desperately need. Again, this can't be second, third, or five-thousandth hand information. It'll be a tricky one too, since it's usually employers who depress wages, & the "good, LEGAL" Americans who have been "hurt" will have to have actually wanted the poverty-wage jobs. So even if you know the specifics of some guy that "took" your job at the chicken processing plant, but ever were heard to say "shit, I was gonna quit that shitty job, anyway", then you've ceded the point.
3.) List one, just one, example of an actual, LEGAL immigrant who you actually personally know who resents the "ease" with which ILLEGALS enter this country. Once again, you'll need to present proof that this person isn't a fiction created by some wannabe- Limbaugh blogger somewhere. & just like your mythical "one Black Friend", you have to know this person well enough to have heard them express this supposed resentment out loud, instead of just using your acquaintance as a justification for your own bigotry.
SPECIAL BONUS for the real aficionados:
4.) Cite one, just one, example of literal preparation by Hispanics to stage either a violent campaign, or one involving simple reproduction, to retake the Southwestern States, or any other section of the country. Agitating protected free speech that speaks to racial self-esteem/pride doesn't count (if it did, then all you xenophobes would be in deep shit, right?). I want locations of secret arms caches, troop movements, examples of covert ops, etc. Or, alternately, times & locations or methods of organized fornification.
Have fun playing, & good luck!
Beats me as to where this flood of truly misshapen souls has come from to troll Alternet with their twisted concept of Patriotism & lack of perspective. I would guess that word has gotten out among the Right-catering blogs that Alternet now has an immigration-issues section. Or, perhaps, we're just seeing the results of that brief fling with the Paulites? Regardless, I for one want them gone.
The irony.
Of course, our war against these "unwanted immigrants" will be waged with words, not by letting them know, in no uncertain terms, that we can get to them through their children at any time.
So, to all our new Anti-American "residents", I offer the following challenge;
1.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "sucking up the resources", "taking all the medical", or "stealing" any privilege reserved for upstanding citizens such as yourselves. The rules for this section are simple. The "illegal" in question must actually exist, outside of that chain email you got (from the same relative who's always forwarding stuff about Obama being the head of the Taliban In Chicago). You must actually have met the "illegal" in question who harmed you in this manner, or else have two sources of verification of the alleged harm (perhaps the victim & a local news story, for instance).
2.) List one, just one, example from your own community of ILLEGALS "depressing wages" or denying eager native citizens the jobs they desperately need. Again, this can't be second, third, or five-thousandth hand information. It'll be a tricky one too, since it's usually employers who depress wages, & the "good, LEGAL" Americans who have been "hurt" will have to have actually wanted the poverty-wage jobs. So even if you know the specifics of some guy that "took" your job at the chicken processing plant, but ever were heard to say "shit, I was gonna quit that shitty job, anyway", then you've ceded the point.
3.) List one, just one, example of an actual, LEGAL immigrant who you actually personally know who resents the "ease" with which ILLEGALS enter this country. Once again, you'll need to present proof that this person isn't a fiction created by some wannabe- Limbaugh blogger somewhere. & just like your mythical "one Black Friend", you have to know this person well enough to have heard them express this supposed resentment out loud, instead of just using your acquaintance as a justification for your own bigotry.
SPECIAL BONUS for the real aficionados:
4.) Cite one, just one, example of literal preparation by Hispanics to stage either a violent campaign, or one involving simple reproduction, to retake the Southwestern States, or any other section of the country. Agitating protected free speech that speaks to racial self-esteem/pride doesn't count (if it did, then all you xenophobes would be in deep shit, right?). I want locations of secret arms caches, troop movements, examples of covert ops, etc. Or, alternately, times & locations or methods of organized fornification.
Have fun playing, & good luck!
» RE: Oh man, wow
Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Our Hearts Aren't "Bleeding", They're FUNCTIONING (+ A Challenge)
Posted by: SOWILO
» that what your people did
Posted by: Mexitli
» Damn Straight You Give Up.
Posted by: grumble-bum
» A linked response to your "Bonus Question."
Posted by: SOWILO
» hahahaha
Posted by: Mexitli
» Feh. Pathetic. (RE: Your Linked "Response")
Posted by: grumble-bum
Comments are closed-
Europeans Came Illegally
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:11 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now leave.
damned illegals.
damned illegals.
Comments are closed-
LOSERS!
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:17 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 8, 2008 6:17 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Picking on CHILDREN!
damned losers!
damned losers!
» RE: LOSERS!
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
"Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems America always needs her "scapegoats." During the 1920's and on into the 1960's, it was the Blacks. The Klan, especially in the South, had to "protect the White women," and keep "those darkies from taking whities jobs," etc., etc. Seems some things never change. According to some, all of America's problems are those "damn illegals." Yep, they come here, and they are the reason you cannot get medical care, or you cannot get a job even at Wal-Mart's (never mind if you cannot read good enough to fill out the application, that's the "illegal" fault also). It goes on and on, doesn't it. As for most of them "illegals" being "brown skinned," well that just makes good redneck sense. More of them darkies, corrupting our society, once again. Never ends, does it?
» RE: "Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
"Illegal Aliens," the NIGG@!$ of Today
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: sofla100 on May 8, 2008 6:41 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems America always needs her "scapegoats." During the 1920's and on into the 1960's, it was the Blacks. The Klan, especially in the South, had to "protect the White women," and keep "those darkies from taking whities jobs," etc., etc. Seems some things never change. According to some, all of America's problems are those "damn illegals." Yep, they come here, and they are the reason you cannot get medical care, or you cannot get a job even at Wal-Mart's (never mind if you cannot read good enough to fill out the application, that's the "illegal" fault also). It goes on and on, doesn't it. As for most of them "illegals" being "brown skinned," well that just makes good redneck sense. More of them darkies, corrupting our society, once again. Never ends, does it?
Comments are closed-
A Great Quote
Posted by: bryangalt on May 8, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: bryangalt on May 8, 2008 7:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read this quote from an article concerning animal intelligence testing and I find it to be more that applicable to the discussion string on this blog:
"Are humans actually aware of the world they live in? So far the results are inconclusive."-- VERLYN KLINKENBORG
In this blog today, we are showing our true American spirits. We are writing down what we really think. We are so spoild, arrogant and disengaged from the rest of reality, that any boogey-man will work when it comes to deflecting our gaze from that face in the mirror.
The facts are clear for anyone who realizes what the word "fact" means. In case you need a refresher, here's the Webster's (una-Bushed version):
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime carchaic : action
2archaic : performance, doing
3: the quality of being actual : actuality
4 a: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth
Item #5 is where the American collective always seems to go the most haywire. Doesn't it ever strike anyone as odd that in the "Information Age" there are so many people that cannot seem to distinguish a fact from their fat asses?
Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the military, law-enforcement, intelligence spending programs under Mr. Bush (who is indeed the biggest idiot to ever lead a country-and that is a FACT), have steadily accelerated while nuisance programs like education, health care and food programs have steadily decreased?
I am presuming that there are probably some paper-Christians who have responded here today-you know the type. They bleed Bible-verses about how great Jesus was alledged to have been, while at the same time they are bitching that an illegal immigrant is going to steal his job at the Dairy Queen. If you aren't sure what Jesus would have to say about your attitude, then you are indeed a paper-Christian (which ironically will make it easier for you to burn in hell...lol).
Finally, I strongly urge you to visit Cost of War to find out why we don't have health car, good jobs, good schools, smooth roads, etc.
The fact that we, as custodians of our Constitution, worry more about gardeners and busboys crossing the border to pick up our shit, while the American corporations are allowed to charge us $50,000,000 for a SINGLE AIRCRAFT (the new F-35, still in development with costs over $235 Billion already sunk into this black hole/ops program), then it isn't the illegal people that don't deserve any services, NO ONE DOES.
Obviously, we really don't want them enough to get off our collective fat asses to find out what is truly the problem and then take the actions needed to fix it.
That would be work...perhaps a job for some illegals...
"Are humans actually aware of the world they live in? So far the results are inconclusive."-- VERLYN KLINKENBORG
In this blog today, we are showing our true American spirits. We are writing down what we really think. We are so spoild, arrogant and disengaged from the rest of reality, that any boogey-man will work when it comes to deflecting our gaze from that face in the mirror.
The facts are clear for anyone who realizes what the word "fact" means. In case you need a refresher, here's the Webster's (una-Bushed version):
1: a thing done: as aobsolete : feat b: crime carchaic : action
2archaic : performance, doing
3: the quality of being actual : actuality
4 a: something that has actual existence b: an actual occurrence
5: a piece of information presented as having objective reality
— in fact : in truth
Item #5 is where the American collective always seems to go the most haywire. Doesn't it ever strike anyone as odd that in the "Information Age" there are so many people that cannot seem to distinguish a fact from their fat asses?
Doesn't it strike anyone as odd that the military, law-enforcement, intelligence spending programs under Mr. Bush (who is indeed the biggest idiot to ever lead a country-and that is a FACT), have steadily accelerated while nuisance programs like education, health care and food programs have steadily decreased?
I am presuming that there are probably some paper-Christians who have responded here today-you know the type. They bleed Bible-verses about how great Jesus was alledged to have been, while at the same time they are bitching that an illegal immigrant is going to steal his job at the Dairy Queen. If you aren't sure what Jesus would have to say about your attitude, then you are indeed a paper-Christian (which ironically will make it easier for you to burn in hell...lol).
Finally, I strongly urge you to visit Cost of War to find out why we don't have health car, good jobs, good schools, smooth roads, etc.
The fact that we, as custodians of our Constitution, worry more about gardeners and busboys crossing the border to pick up our shit, while the American corporations are allowed to charge us $50,000,000 for a SINGLE AIRCRAFT (the new F-35, still in development with costs over $235 Billion already sunk into this black hole/ops program), then it isn't the illegal people that don't deserve any services, NO ONE DOES.
Obviously, we really don't want them enough to get off our collective fat asses to find out what is truly the problem and then take the actions needed to fix it.
That would be work...perhaps a job for some illegals...
Comments are closed-
Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: stilldreaming on May 8, 2008 7:47 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: stilldreaming on May 8, 2008 7:47 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As an immigrant myself, I see no obligation on part of the American people to educate for free an undetermined number of children of undocumented, uncounted, ungrateful, illegal immigrants.
We want to help children, but there is no obligation. There is a pragmatic side of prefering to have educated illegals on US soil than completely illiterate ones. Being in US schools might be a great way for kids born in a different country to integrate in the American culture. This would work well, except we have such a high, and growing, proportion of kids who don't speak English well in schools.
Are Americans obligated to pay taxes to support an ever-growing number of kids who are here courtesy of their illegal parents, who broke the law?!
Yes, American employers break the law as well. Should they be liable for much higher taxes, to support the education of undocumented kids?
How many of these childrens education we we want to sponsor? Do we accept the growing number? (we have, so far .. we didn't get 12 million or so illegals overnight)
So, immigrants: you are here in the US because you *want* to be here. Say THANK YOU to your gracious, generous American hosts. To the American teachers who help you learn English. To the American health system, graciously extending care to you. To a culture, here in the US, which treats immigrants with respect (for the most part.)
If you don't like, go home.
We want to help children, but there is no obligation. There is a pragmatic side of prefering to have educated illegals on US soil than completely illiterate ones. Being in US schools might be a great way for kids born in a different country to integrate in the American culture. This would work well, except we have such a high, and growing, proportion of kids who don't speak English well in schools.
Are Americans obligated to pay taxes to support an ever-growing number of kids who are here courtesy of their illegal parents, who broke the law?!
Yes, American employers break the law as well. Should they be liable for much higher taxes, to support the education of undocumented kids?
How many of these childrens education we we want to sponsor? Do we accept the growing number? (we have, so far .. we didn't get 12 million or so illegals overnight)
So, immigrants: you are here in the US because you *want* to be here. Say THANK YOU to your gracious, generous American hosts. To the American teachers who help you learn English. To the American health system, graciously extending care to you. To a culture, here in the US, which treats immigrants with respect (for the most part.)
If you don't like, go home.
» RE: Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I disagree, Joshua -- Americans are incredibly charitable
Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: I disagree, Joshua -- Americans are incredibly charitable
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Are illegals grateful for American hospitality & charity?
Posted by: Old Skeptic
Comments are closed-
We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: PaulK on May 8, 2008 7:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: PaulK on May 8, 2008 7:52 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, we can hold the ideal that we don't want two billion of the world's poorest people to flood the US. They wouldn't fit. If we enforced the immigration laws by charging Wal-Mart with slavery every time they held people imprisoned in their stores on the night shift, maybe there wouldn't be so much illegal immigration. Enslaving North Korean women for prostitution (if they squeal, they'll be sent home and then killed) should equally be a high-punishment felony.
Second, we can hold the ideal that immigrants (or their descendants) should eventually become U.S. citizens. When babies are smuggled in, they learn to speak English in school. Transporting them back to their "native country" is cruel if they don't know the language. Holding these kids-adults for years in our very worst subhuman prisons is also barbaric. I've heard horror stories about guards quitting because of the constant screaming in a tiny underground room stuffed with 50 slaves, er, excludables.
For those kids who were born here, telling these kids that they can stay but their parents have to be deported is also pretty strange. Some real nut made these rules.
So, what's your rule? When do you deport people? Up to one hour after sneaking over the border? Up to forty years? What if they have kids?
What if an employer actively helped them? What does the government do if they snitched on the crook/employer and deportation is the employer's revenge?
C'mon, you're not all political candidates, and you're anonymous. What's a good line to draw?
Second, we can hold the ideal that immigrants (or their descendants) should eventually become U.S. citizens. When babies are smuggled in, they learn to speak English in school. Transporting them back to their "native country" is cruel if they don't know the language. Holding these kids-adults for years in our very worst subhuman prisons is also barbaric. I've heard horror stories about guards quitting because of the constant screaming in a tiny underground room stuffed with 50 slaves, er, excludables.
For those kids who were born here, telling these kids that they can stay but their parents have to be deported is also pretty strange. Some real nut made these rules.
So, what's your rule? When do you deport people? Up to one hour after sneaking over the border? Up to forty years? What if they have kids?
What if an employer actively helped them? What does the government do if they snitched on the crook/employer and deportation is the employer's revenge?
C'mon, you're not all political candidates, and you're anonymous. What's a good line to draw?
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: bryangalt
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: Old Skeptic
» RE: We can hold two ideals at the same time
Posted by: countingdaisies
Comments are closed-
white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: deang on May 8, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: deang on May 8, 2008 9:44 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The racism of US white people raises its head once again. And a few token Blacks and brown-skinned right-wingers towing the white anti-immigrant line doesn't change that fact. You whitists are actually defending these Nazi-redolent actions against children and their families, and many of you even admit that you wouldn't be upset about immigration if the immigrants were white, documented or not. Sometimes these days I have to remind myself that I'm living in the year 2008 and not 1898. Dark-skinned immigrants coming here are not a "problem" - there is no "immigrant problem." White people's congenital hostility toward people of darker hue is the real problem, and that's true of people of European ancestry throughout the world. A lot of you commenters act as though the policies of white Americans imposed on these people's countries of origin had nothing to do with them coming here. And then you define the dark-skinned ones as "illegal", forgetting that laws are human constructions that can be changed at human whim. It has disgusted me to see the right-wing campaign against dark-skinned immigrants poison the minds of white people even in my home state of Texas, a region where whites and brown-skinned folks have lived together relatively amicably for centuries. You people are sick.
» RE: white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: billfaster
» RE: white hostility toward dark skin is the real problem
Posted by: Spock
Comments are closed-
The Mongoose Trick - speaking truth to tyranny
Posted by: Spock on May 9, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Spock on May 9, 2008 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So if I rob a bank, the police who come looking for me are being cruel to my children? WHO is being "cruel?" These people took their kids to a crime they intended to commit. Now that they're caught, they want to hold their kids' interests hostage? When the IRS took everything I'd worked all my life to build, destroyed my businesses and took steps to assure I'd never be employed again, and destroyed in the hideous process not one, but two, marriages and scattered my family to the four winds, where were all the hearts bleeding for illegal aliens? What the hell kind of twisted reasoning is this? Easy - it's political propaganda.
» Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Spock
» RE: Perfect moral equivalence -- how could we have been so blind?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Brittanicus on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Brittanicus on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author of this article fails to mention, who is paying for the parasite employers profit margin? Who is paying for the overcrowded schools, subsidized housing, food stamps, baby delivery and all the billions of dollars in free health care. That is just a small portion of the billions of dollars skimmed off taxpayer dollars to pay for the welfare of predator businesses.
Why do you think that other states have enacted their own immigration employer sanction laws. Because those states that include Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have had enough of taxpayers underwriting pariah employers profits. They gain, you lose...?
All the Sanctuary Cities better watch out...? Because now that Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have enacted their own Immigration laws. The thousands that are leaving these swamped states must be going somewhere...? LOS ANGELES? They have Special Order 40, a haven for violent gangs of animals.
San Francisco? Salt Lake City or even Denver, Colorado. Is your community a SANCTUARY CITY, that lets the illegal immigration hordes feed from the welfare trough?
We know now that the majority of Democrats are INTENTIONALLY STOPPING the federal SAVE ACT (H.R. 4088) because they are waiting for the new president to sign another AMNESTY. For taxpayers it would be a nationwide catastrophe. NUMBERSUSA.
Keep calling your Congressmen today to co-author THE SAVE ACT! KEEP CONSTRUCTING THE FENCE! Toll free numbers include 18778516437 and 18662200044, or 12022243121 AND REGISTER YOUR OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to keep our country from enforcing its immigration laws!
Why do you think that other states have enacted their own immigration employer sanction laws. Because those states that include Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have had enough of taxpayers underwriting pariah employers profits. They gain, you lose...?
All the Sanctuary Cities better watch out...? Because now that Arizona, Oklahoma, Georgia and Rhode Island have enacted their own Immigration laws. The thousands that are leaving these swamped states must be going somewhere...? LOS ANGELES? They have Special Order 40, a haven for violent gangs of animals.
San Francisco? Salt Lake City or even Denver, Colorado. Is your community a SANCTUARY CITY, that lets the illegal immigration hordes feed from the welfare trough?
We know now that the majority of Democrats are INTENTIONALLY STOPPING the federal SAVE ACT (H.R. 4088) because they are waiting for the new president to sign another AMNESTY. For taxpayers it would be a nationwide catastrophe. NUMBERSUSA.
Keep calling your Congressmen today to co-author THE SAVE ACT! KEEP CONSTRUCTING THE FENCE! Toll free numbers include 18778516437 and 18662200044, or 12022243121 AND REGISTER YOUR OUTRAGE at ongoing efforts to keep our country from enforcing its immigration laws!
» who's paying, that's the environment, species which die off
Posted by: stilldreaming
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Taxpayers V. Illegal Immigration Occupation
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Sad. Can We Deport Stupid People?
Posted by: URALSR on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: URALSR on May 9, 2008 9:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cause we have loads, too many infact. It's evident by the number of posts. Oh, wait! Let's make everyone in America, national and foreign take a test. Then ship the spoiled fruit to the dump. I know I should be sympathetic toward stupid people, but it's hard man. Especially after reading the comments sections of online publications.
Comments are closed-
Human shields
Posted by: darkhorse on May 9, 2008 12:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: darkhorse on May 9, 2008 12:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The illegal aliens (and their lobbists) should stop using children as human shields in their war on America.
The children are innocents but no one, no one except their parents, have put them in this jeopardy willfully and gleefully in order to skirt the laws and grab privileges from others.
It's shameful.
The children are innocents but no one, no one except their parents, have put them in this jeopardy willfully and gleefully in order to skirt the laws and grab privileges from others.
It's shameful.
Comments are closed-
Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on May 9, 2008 1:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Ignatz deFyre on May 9, 2008 1:09 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
has brought the xenophobes, nativists, nationalists and volksnazis.
WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS HERE. Can I say it louder?
We displaced the rightful occupants, the Indians. Who's calling the kettle African American now? The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons. To the complainers: stop feeling effing sorry for your miserable spoiled Americanasses and adapt, or be darwined away.
WE ARE ALL IMMIGRANTS HERE. Can I say it louder?
We displaced the rightful occupants, the Indians. Who's calling the kettle African American now? The sins of the fathers shall be visited upon the sons. To the complainers: stop feeling effing sorry for your miserable spoiled Americanasses and adapt, or be darwined away.
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: URALSR
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: AGeach
» Mexicans ARE NOT IMMIGRANTS
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: Out of the woodwork this thread
Posted by: Spock
Comments are closed-
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
Comments are closed-
Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: shaynafay on May 9, 2008 2:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: shaynafay on May 9, 2008 2:43 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not too far away from the elementary school, on High St. near International, is a "Day Laborer Assembly Area" aka illegal immigrant place to wait for someone to pick me up for a job. There are dozens of men hanging out here all day. All the ICE would have to do is roll up and start detaining. But everyone knows why that won't happen.
Our economy relies on those day laborers. If it weren't for them gardens wouldn't get landscaped, houses wouldn't be remodeled, and fences wouldn't be constructed. The ICE sees the women and children as drains on the economy, using up precious education resources. But they are way wrong.
That 17 year old taking the AP exam - my daughter goes to school with him. After school he works almost every day at a restaurant so his family has enough money to put food on the table and pay rent. His mom, the one who was picking up the little kids from school, she is your housekeeper. You see America, where we live in CA, it takes 3 or 4 adults working to make ends meet.
If the ICE were ever completely successful, the economy would collapse, because the work that the immigrants do, holds up the rest of us on their shoulders - just like the Diego Rivera mural!
Our economy relies on those day laborers. If it weren't for them gardens wouldn't get landscaped, houses wouldn't be remodeled, and fences wouldn't be constructed. The ICE sees the women and children as drains on the economy, using up precious education resources. But they are way wrong.
That 17 year old taking the AP exam - my daughter goes to school with him. After school he works almost every day at a restaurant so his family has enough money to put food on the table and pay rent. His mom, the one who was picking up the little kids from school, she is your housekeeper. You see America, where we live in CA, it takes 3 or 4 adults working to make ends meet.
If the ICE were ever completely successful, the economy would collapse, because the work that the immigrants do, holds up the rest of us on their shoulders - just like the Diego Rivera mural!
» RE: Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: countingdaisies
» RE: Women and Children are easy targets!
Posted by: Spock
Comments are closed-
mexitli
Posted by: AGeach on May 9, 2008 2:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: AGeach on May 9, 2008 2:56 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You call Americans "squaters", but you don't stop to think.
FIRST: We FOUGHT for and WON the land that is ALL the USA!!!
SECOND: If we had not taken it, Texas, AZ, etc. would all be part of the filthy SLUMS, that are quite nicely represented by border towns, such as Nogales and Tijuana! Mexico has done so good by their own land and people.
The wealth and pride of this nation was NOT built on a wealth that originated with and was taken from Mexico. It was BUILT on the land that like so many other nations in the world have done, the US fought for and claimed.
Mexico has many wealth resort areas. Mexicans should be looking to those places and people to GIVE THEM all that they are demanding from a nation that has more than subsidized their country for many years.
Illegals can actually protest in our streets here, with little or no fear (otherwise they would have all been rounded up and deported on the first May Day march.) They do not, and most likely cannot do so in their own country. Well, that does not justify demanding so much from a country that they have come to illegally, and many with NO intention of assimilating.
It takes a lot of nerve to do what the illegals have done for so long here, and then DEMAND anything. I have no sympathy for "5 day walks" "crossing the hot desert" "left my family behind" waaaaa waaaaa waaaaaa!!!!!
That is a choice they made. A BAD choice, so live with the consequences. Better yet, go back to where you came from, and DEMAND that the Mexican government and people give you free food, medical, education, housing etc. THEY owe it to you!!! WE DO NOT!!! You are NOT entitled to it, and you DO NOT have a RIGHT to it.
If you have stolen someones SS# and as the bleeding hearts here like to claim, are paying income taxes that you "supposedly" cannot get a refund from (they can and do get it, there are tax preparers helping these criminals get it) then consider it a small price to pay for the financial problems you are causing the person who's number you stole!!!
We weren't squaters we were WINNERS!!!
FIRST: We FOUGHT for and WON the land that is ALL the USA!!!
SECOND: If we had not taken it, Texas, AZ, etc. would all be part of the filthy SLUMS, that are quite nicely represented by border towns, such as Nogales and Tijuana! Mexico has done so good by their own land and people.
The wealth and pride of this nation was NOT built on a wealth that originated with and was taken from Mexico. It was BUILT on the land that like so many other nations in the world have done, the US fought for and claimed.
Mexico has many wealth resort areas. Mexicans should be looking to those places and people to GIVE THEM all that they are demanding from a nation that has more than subsidized their country for many years.
Illegals can actually protest in our streets here, with little or no fear (otherwise they would have all been rounded up and deported on the first May Day march.) They do not, and most likely cannot do so in their own country. Well, that does not justify demanding so much from a country that they have come to illegally, and many with NO intention of assimilating.
It takes a lot of nerve to do what the illegals have done for so long here, and then DEMAND anything. I have no sympathy for "5 day walks" "crossing the hot desert" "left my family behind" waaaaa waaaaa waaaaaa!!!!!
That is a choice they made. A BAD choice, so live with the consequences. Better yet, go back to where you came from, and DEMAND that the Mexican government and people give you free food, medical, education, housing etc. THEY owe it to you!!! WE DO NOT!!! You are NOT entitled to it, and you DO NOT have a RIGHT to it.
If you have stolen someones SS# and as the bleeding hearts here like to claim, are paying income taxes that you "supposedly" cannot get a refund from (they can and do get it, there are tax preparers helping these criminals get it) then consider it a small price to pay for the financial problems you are causing the person who's number you stole!!!
We weren't squaters we were WINNERS!!!
» RE: mexitli
Posted by: Joshua Holland
» I am where I came from
Posted by: Mexitli
» RE: I am where I came from
Posted by: AGeach
» Dummy
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
It's the huge numbers of illegal aliens in the country that is generating anger against them
Posted by: Paul1939 on May 10, 2008 12:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Paul1939 on May 10, 2008 12:21 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mexiti's assertion that all EU countries provide education to illegal aliens sounded inaccurate to me based on my experience while living in Europe so I decided to check on Italy's policy. I found that he was correct with respect to Italy; they do in fact provide elementary school education to all children regardless of their parent's status. The assertion, however, is sophistic. Unlike the US, Italy has few illegal aliens and strong laws strictly enforced to keep it that way. I found a number of examples of how Italy enforces it laws against illegal aliens, and have listed three to make my point:
"Anyone who facilitates the entry of an illegal alien is subject to threes year in jail and a €15.000 financial penalty..." If they facilitate for profit, the jail time increases to four years, and the financial penalty increases to €25,000.
"Anyone who helps illegal aliens to stay in Italy for illegal activities or in order to wrongfully benefit from such an illegal stay, shall also be punished with up to four years’ imprisonment and €15.493,70 financial penalty."
"Any employer who hires a foreign worker bearing no residence permit for work reasons, or whose permit has expired (unless the alien has already applied for its renewal) or whose permit has been revoked or canceled, shall be punished with 3 to 12 months’ imprisonment and a with a €5000 financial penalty for each hired worker."
If the US had penalties such as those in Italy and strictly enforced those penalties, as does Italy, then I too would favor providing education to illegal alien children while their parents are processed for deportation. The trouble is that the US does not enforce the weak laws it has. The US has tens of millions of illegal alien children, and the resources required to provide an education for these children, in their own language no less, is enormous.
The US education system is already in crisis mode, in large part, for lack of funds; we simply cannot afford to spend tens of billions of dollars educating the children of other nations. We need every available dollar to improve the educational level of our own children. It is illogical to take badly needed money from the children of US citizens and give it to children illegally in our country. WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS? Those who support this irrational policy have the burden of proof to justify why foreign children are more valuable to them than are US children!
Education is only one of the problems that is either the direct result of or is exacerbated in large measure by illegal aliens. Here is a list you should have the courage to consider and evaluate: overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, pollution, environmental damage, crime, diminishing resources, diseases, lack of affordable housing, depressed wages, underground economy, fraudulent documents, identity thief, tax invasion, soaring crime rate, increased tax burdens, overcrowded schools, uneducated children, overcrowded prisons, inadequate health care, the balkanization of our communities and a large and growing population with loyalty to other nations, the overall decline in our quality of life. In fact, can you think of any problem, on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way, aided, assisted, or advanced, by having continued population growth--at the local level, the state level, or the national level?
Those US citizens who support amnesty for the 12-20+ million illegal aliens in the US and a more coming every year had better begin to think of the consequences of that choice, and how it will play out for your descendents.
Visit NumbersUSA.org and view their video “Immigration by the Numbers”.
Visit Google Videos and view video (Bartlett.wmv), “Arithmetic, Population and Energy.” by Professor Albert Bartlett.
"Anyone who facilitates the entry of an illegal alien is subject to threes year in jail and a €15.000 financial penalty..." If they facilitate for profit, the jail time increases to four years, and the financial penalty increases to €25,000.
"Anyone who helps illegal aliens to stay in Italy for illegal activities or in order to wrongfully benefit from such an illegal stay, shall also be punished with up to four years’ imprisonment and €15.493,70 financial penalty."
"Any employer who hires a foreign worker bearing no residence permit for work reasons, or whose permit has expired (unless the alien has already applied for its renewal) or whose permit has been revoked or canceled, shall be punished with 3 to 12 months’ imprisonment and a with a €5000 financial penalty for each hired worker."
If the US had penalties such as those in Italy and strictly enforced those penalties, as does Italy, then I too would favor providing education to illegal alien children while their parents are processed for deportation. The trouble is that the US does not enforce the weak laws it has. The US has tens of millions of illegal alien children, and the resources required to provide an education for these children, in their own language no less, is enormous.
The US education system is already in crisis mode, in large part, for lack of funds; we simply cannot afford to spend tens of billions of dollars educating the children of other nations. We need every available dollar to improve the educational level of our own children. It is illogical to take badly needed money from the children of US citizens and give it to children illegally in our country. WHAT IS SO SPECIAL ABOUT ILLEGAL ALIENS? Those who support this irrational policy have the burden of proof to justify why foreign children are more valuable to them than are US children!
Education is only one of the problems that is either the direct result of or is exacerbated in large measure by illegal aliens. Here is a list you should have the courage to consider and evaluate: overpopulation, congestion, urban sprawl, pollution, environmental damage, crime, diminishing resources, diseases, lack of affordable housing, depressed wages, underground economy, fraudulent documents, identity thief, tax invasion, soaring crime rate, increased tax burdens, overcrowded schools, uneducated children, overcrowded prisons, inadequate health care, the balkanization of our communities and a large and growing population with loyalty to other nations, the overall decline in our quality of life. In fact, can you think of any problem, on any scale, from microscopic to global, whose long-term solution is in any demonstrable way, aided, assisted, or advanced, by having continued population growth--at the local level, the state level, or the national level?
Those US citizens who support amnesty for the 12-20+ million illegal aliens in the US and a more coming every year had better begin to think of the consequences of that choice, and how it will play out for your descendents.
Visit NumbersUSA.org and view their video “Immigration by the Numbers”.
Visit Google Videos and view video (Bartlett.wmv), “Arithmetic, Population and Energy.” by Professor Albert Bartlett.
» WRONG!
Posted by: Mexitli
Comments are closed-
About Numbers USA and John Tanton, Roy Beck
Posted by: Mexitli on May 10, 2008 3:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Mexitli on May 10, 2008 3:54 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Comments are closed-
The Mongoose Trick - speaking truth to tyranny & tyrants
Posted by: Spock on May 11, 2008 12:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Posted by: Spock on May 11, 2008 12:11 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just for the record, imagine what would happen, were all the arguments and comments here subject to the rules of logic and forensic debate. In all sincerity - assuming sincerity on the part of participants - I suggest that we all go to a logic page here on the Internet, and check our reasoning. It should prove interesting. Illogical argument, you know, proves absolutely nothing, and without logic, no one has any way to assess the validity of what you say. You waste our time, in other words.
» It's about HATE, Bud
Posted by: Mexitli
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