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The Progressive / By Ruth Conniff
comments_imageCOMMENTS: 217

Torturers in the White House: Why Is This Story Being Ignored?

We now have confirmation that the President of the United States gave the OK to torture. Where is the media? Where are the Democrats?
April 17, 2008  |  
 
 
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The biggest news of the last week went virtually uncovered by the mainstream, print media. ABC News first reported last Wednesday that top Bush Administration officials, including Dick Cheney, Condoleezza Rice, John Ashcroft, and George Tenet, Colin Powell, and Donald Rumsfeld met to discuss which particular torture techniques should be used against Al Qaeda suspects in U.S. custody.

The group signed off on specific techniques, including sleep deprivation, slapping, pushing, and waterboarding, and gave instruction "so detailed … some of the interrogation sessions were almost choreographed, down to the number of times CIA agents could use a specific tactic."

If John McCain is seriously considering Condoleezza Rice as a running mate, the former POW should keep in mind that Rice not only condoned torture, but chaired the National Security Council's "Principals Committee" meetings to plan the details of torture of prisoners in U.S. custody.

Then-Attorney General John Ashcroft was so troubled by the meetings, he was moved to object: "Why are we discussing this in the White House?" he asked, according to ABC. "History will not judge this kindly."

On Friday, ABC added this blockbuster: Bush himself was aware of the meetings. Unlike Ashcroft, he had no compunctions. There was nothing "startling" about the revelations that his top advisers were directing the waterboarding of individual prisoners, Bush told ABC's Martha Raddatz. "And yes, I'm aware our national security team met on this issue and I approved," Bush said.

Why is this not bigger news?

Remember when the nation was brought to a virtual standstill over Bill Clinton's affair with a White House intern?

We now have confirmation that the President of the United States gave the OK for his national security team to violate international law and plot the sordid details of torture. The Democrats in Congress should be raising the roof.

House Judiciary Committee Chair John Conyers, to his credit, has suggested subpoenaing the members of the Principals Committee, calling their actions "a stain on our democracy."

Conyers also threatened last week to subpoena John Yoo, the former Justice Department lawyer whose recently declassified 2003 torture memos attempted to give legal cover to practices such as waterboarding.

Such techniques, as long as their sole purpose wasn't sadism, were acceptable, Yoo wrote. Being a sadist was presumably necessary but not sufficient qualification for employment in the Bush White House.

In his new book The Terror Presidency, Yoo's colleague Jack Goldsmith writes about his evolution from friend and supporter of the officials who brought us to this pass to a conscientious objector to their illegal and morally corrupt practices.

Back when he worked for Rumsfeld at the Pentagon, Goldsmith wrote a memo warning that Bush Administration officials could be indicted by the International Criminal Court for their actions in the war on terror.

After he went to work for Justice, Goldsmith began standing up to the torture cabal at the White House -- to his enduring discomfort. In one incident, recounted in his book and in a September profile by Jeffrey Rosen of the New York Times Magazine, he knocked heads with Dick Cheney's advisor (now his chief of staff) David Addington. Goldsmith delivered the bad news that terror suspects were, in fact, covered by the Fourth Geneva Convention against torture of civilians: "'The president has already decided that terrorists do not receive Geneva Convention protections,'" Addington replied angrily, according to Goldsmith. 'You cannot question his decision.'"

Goldsmith also criticized the torture memos for their "extremely broad and unnecessary analysis of the President's Commander-in-Chief power" and for their extremely loose definition of torture as limited to causing a level of pain akin to organ failure.

Pointing out that the Administration was violating the War Crimes Act of 1996, the Geneva Conventions, and the Uniform Code of Military Justice, Goldmith withdrew Yoo's torture memos -- and promptly resigned his post.

Even after losing that flimsy legal cover, Bush and the other members of the Principals Committee appear unrepentant and undeterred.

Goldsmith, who now teaches law at Harvard, is no civil libertarian, but like John Ashcroft and John McCain, he has spoken out against executive lawlessness. No doubt he would have plenty to tell the House Judiciary Committee.

And perhaps the International Criminal Court as well.
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Perhaps because the Constitution has been suspended?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: LeftWright on Apr 17, 2008 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look into "continuity of government" that was begun on the morning of 9/11/01, start with this blog:

One of the top investigative journalists in the country, Larisa Alexandrovna (the lead journalist at Raw Story), says the following concerning her attempts to determine whether or not the U.S. is still officially in a state of emergency, such as would justify the continuition of Continuity of Government (COG) Plans implemented on 9/11:

"Well, I have called around... believe it or not, no seems to have an answer as to this simple question: 'are we in a state of emergency?' "

Keep in mind that Alexandrovna has broken many top stories, later picked up by the New York Times and other mainstream publications, and has developed a broad network of contacts. And yet she couldn't find an answer.

We need to ask all our members of Congress about the "state of emergency" and "continuity of government" asap.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» is it liberalism that has failed? Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Defeatist mush. Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Agreed, Keepson Tickn Posted by: LeftWright
» This is so frustrating Posted by: calibrit
» RE: Agreed, Keepson Tickn Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: Quannah
» Where in NJ are you, EncinoM? Posted by: LeftWright
» Give them a call today, EncinoM Posted by: LeftWright
» You guessed wrong, blitzmesser, Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: Lauren
» Idealist fancy Posted by: progdem
» Your solution is...? Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Your solution is...? Posted by: progdem
» RE: Your solution is...? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Idealist fancy Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: peacefullaim
» Rape, theft. . . Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: ape, theft. . . Posted by: Lauren
» Don't blame the victims? Posted by: Cathyc
» You got it Bibsisis! Posted by: peacefullaim

Comments are closed-

Terrorist
[Report this comment]
Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 17, 2008 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The coup has been over for eight years, now. We of the Left have to wait a little longer for economic conditions to deteriorate and then it will be possible to push back.

Anyone who has difficulty believing these grim realities or is just now catching on that the fascists have taken over, please stay home. Vote Republican. Be safe. Buy a new TV.

Direct Democracy

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» Welcome to Alternet. Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: Bibsisis

Comments are closed-

Bye, Bye, holidays in europe !
[Report this comment]
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Apr 17, 2008 1:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As europe is filled of liberal nut justices, and those tipe of crimes come under universal jurisdiction, I believe the whole two bush administrations will never again set foot in europe (UK excepted, of course), after they leave office.
I's a pity, because I myself would be eager to see many of them sitting in milosevich's, or goering's, seat.
At least, I expect arrest warrants to be issued and given to all police and frontier controls in schengen space.

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» saltoafronteira... Posted by: Quannah
» Thank you... Posted by: Centavo

Comments are closed-

Why is a 9/11 False-flag CoverUp that started "war on terror" Being Ignored?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Apr 17, 2008 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Might as well ask why the "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal and no reserves) bails out corporate mobsters as Washington pays for endless phony war on the public nickel.

It's just business as usual at Fascist plantation USA where nothing is as advertised and the worst you can imagine can't be far from the truth.

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» Where's your EVIDENCE, EncinoM? Posted by: LeftWright

Comments are closed-

The Mass Media
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Rolomax on Apr 17, 2008 4:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
nm

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They really are fascists
[Report this comment]
Posted by: citizenjoe on Apr 17, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want a national empire, you must show the other nations that they are inferior. You do this in part by torturing their citizens. These are central elements of fascism. Torture has everything to do with teaching inferiority and nothing to do with getting information. Get it? Bush and Cheney and the rest of them are really, truly fascists.Too bad Americans have no clue whatever about what fascism is.

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ABC and the torture story
[Report this comment]
Posted by: sigridsmith on Apr 17, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last night ABC had a perfect chance for follow-up on their torture story. Why in the world didn't they ask Obama and Clinton what they would have done in this situation. It is a question that could have vindicated Bush,or exposed Bush; shown the Dems as being more thoughtful, or foolish; and shown who obfuscates and who is clear on difficult issues. They could have asked if they would do anything about the investigation after they are elected. Already, we have seen that the Freepers lept on Obama for saying that he would put the Attorney General on the case while overjoying those of us on the left. What would Clinton do?

In addition, ABC could have put themselves in the forefront of investigative reporting by reminding the world that they broke the story (finally).

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» Boycott ABC Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: Boycott ABC Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ABC and the torture story Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» TMZ? Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: TMZ? Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» pardon. Chuck Todd Posted by: Ripcord

Comments are closed-

Why do YOU coverup the story about the truth/lies of 9/11???
[Report this comment]
Posted by: pfgetty on Apr 17, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is this story being covered up???
Same question I ask about the inconsistencies and lies of the official story of 9/11.
But when I ask THIS question, it is Alternet I am questioning............WHY DO YOU IGNORE THIS STORY?
The same kind of question, the same kind of non answers we get.
Why should the media answer your questions about torture when you don't answer the questions about 9/11?
9/11 is the mother of all of these questions. Answer this one, and the answers to questions about torture are obvious.
Get to the bottom of 9/11 truth and we will have the American people, ALL of them, up in arms about the horror we have done to detainees, innocent families that have been bombed and massacred all over the world, and the wasting of trillions of dollars on insane wars, occupations and military base building.

C'mon and open your eyes. YOU are part of the media, and YOU are censuring the truth, just like the media you criticize.

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» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: Lauren

Comments are closed-

The Democrats are asking for a "news strike"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: surfreality on Apr 17, 2008 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.democrats.com/torture-news-strike

As to the poster above, the Alternet "cover up" of 9/11 is not related to the subject at hand.

MSM has reported that POTUS has approved torture. He has flat out admitted it. As of yet, not 1 person involved in the so called 9/11 conspiracy has admitted their role and implicated others or proven that they were directed by members of the government to bring about the catastrophe on 9/11.
1000s would have had to have been involved, yet now almost 7 years later, not 1 person has stepped forward and said: "Here's my role in how it went down."

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» This is a CROCK Posted by: FireDrake

Comments are closed-

Blame American attitude: hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil about America
[Report this comment]
Posted by: PakiBoy on Apr 17, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans don't want to face the truth. They are willing to believe, contrary to all the evidence, that their government ALWAYS has noble intentions, and only few bad apples do the 'bad' things.

Media is only giving them what Americans want.

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Why the news won't cover it.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Bastet62 on Apr 17, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The corporate media doesn't report the news that Americans need to know about because these corporations have a vested interest in the continuation of all aspects of the Bush regime.

While America was sleeping or watching Britney Spears latest mental melt-down our Constitution was being trashed, human rights obliterated, torture codified, and more of the same is in the works.

It's time people STOPPED thinking inside the old box that no longer works. Go to worldcantwait.org and find out what to do about all this.

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Of course it's the corporate press coverage.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 17, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shocked? Upset? Outraged? Have you had your head under a rock for the past ten years?

Of course our media distorts the news, ignores stories that make corporations looks bad, pimps up nonsense, works to promote lies put out by government officials, ignores the criminal behavior of their favored president, and refuses to mention Bush and impeachment in the same sentence - etc. etc. There are entire areas on news that they just won't cover - the occupation in Iraq, U.S. trade policy and its effects in countries like Indonesia and Nigeria, the efforts by telecom companies to exert tight control over the Internet.

If you don't like that theme, you can look at the U.S. corporate press ownership by consolidated corporate interests like State Street, Barclays, Vanguard, Fidelity, Dodge & Cox, etc. - who also are majority shareholders in the international oil companies, arms manufacturers, agribusiness corporations, telecoms, pharmaceuticals, etc. They work closely with the public relations industry to plant "stories" that are really just PR releases by corporations.

It's a propaganda system that censors stories and news to present a pro-corporate, pro-Wall Street view of the world. There are entire stories that they refuse to cover at their owner's insistence - and reporters who persist in their efforts are fired routinely.

It's time for a new campaign against the media - one that will only end with breakup of the media conglomerates. You can count on the corporate press not to cover any such effort.

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The Torturer Movie!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: grahamhgreen on Apr 17, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a film that details the torture policies of the Bush administration in a way that is fun and accessible.

http://thetorturermovie.com/

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» RE: The Torturer Movie! Posted by: johnbradleycopeland

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It's all part of the corporate fascist media..!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 17, 2008 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we have a fascist corporate Media..?

Remember A Consolidated Media is Essential to a Properly Functioning Fascism..!

Simple as that..

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Papal PRIVACY & MalWare alerts from Google for 'School of the Americas Watch' site...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 17, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they want you to know, if you LOOK...

...you could go *electronically blind*...

avert thine eyes!!

& the POPE wants you to know... "there is no such thing as privacy"

Human right to PRIVACY? you don't need no stinking PRIVACY! G*d knows what YOU DID!! & HE is more worried about THAT than torture!


Vice
.
.
.
Think about it...

The Thieves of Virtue: legislating morality undermines representative government.

really, VICE is contextual:
* gender
* ethnicity
* age
* race...

all pay a part in morals. but VICE, should never be *criminalized*, especially in a nation where PRIVACY has been abolished.

Who is PERFECT ENOUGH to represent THE PEOPLE or a populist reform when there is neither privacy nor the Will to preserve privacy in society?
Who stands *for the People* when Money & Power exert corrosive controls to extend their oppression & corruption?

You've been *had*

Nobody is immune to *vice* as VICE is about how ONE PERSON privately & personally determines *how to enjoy their own body*...

Naked Truth: Civil Rights & CNN coverage of "F.B.I. biometric database - 'Server in the Sky'"
...& THAT is how THE MORAL MAJORITY ensured Money & Power will kill representative government for The Peoples who seek JUSTICE, Freedom & Human Rights.

"corruption is why we win":
"Yell Fire!": Bush to freeze peace activist assets? - Executive Order to "Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq"

NSA's Domestic Spying Grows As Agency Sweeps Up Data

Diamond Age? - Kids, RFID Chips... & Minority Reporting?!: thoughts on the new US Project Hostile Intent (PHI)

Watching the "Ownership Society": follow-ups on Shareholder Surveillance...


~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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TV news sucks
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Apr 17, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The corporate news media in this country is SO BAD, it makes Pravda look like gold star journalism.

I worked many years in TV news. Back in the "good old days" (the 80's) the management (local at that time) wanted us to cover actual news! As the years went by, the management, no longer local, told us point blank, "JOURNALISM DOESN'T WORK," and they refused to let us cover anything but BS. It was ridiculous beyond belief.

On a side note, I've been doing some political comedy videos and posting them on you tube and other places. Some are on my video production tips blog which has a link below. My two personal favorites are the ones where I make fun of Hillary for her Bosnia lie and another where I ask Bill O'Reilly why he needs to use a loofah. Go check them out and pass them around!
Grandma looks bee-u-ti-fool in her blue yarn wig!



VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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fespada
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fespada on Apr 17, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been 38 violent deaths of individuals vaguely connected to the Kennedy assassination. The techniques are very direct: any disclosure means death, to the individual and to his/her family.
Sounds fantastic? A bit of reading about how fascists were able to control the general public will possibly give you a clue.
Further, when broken into digestible pieces, tried and true totalitarian experience have done the job: You talk, you, and your family, die.

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» RE: fespada Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: fespada Posted by: Lauren

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fespada
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fespada on Apr 17, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been 38 violent deaths of individuals vaguely connected to the Kennedy assassination. The techniques are very direct: any disclosure means death, to the individual and to his/her family.
Sounds fantastic? A bit of reading about how fascists were able to control the general public will possibly give you a clue.
Further, when broken into digestible pieces, tried and true totalitarian experience have done the job: You talk, you, and your family, die.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Talk to who? Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Talk to who? Posted by: Lauren

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Where is the Media...Where are the democrats?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jeffrey7 on Apr 17, 2008 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why, they are supporting it silly!!! Think about it,the press has'nt been on the side of the people since the Reagan/Bush days and Iran/
Contra,or for that matter Arabscam. The democrats sold out a long time ago so they have become flacid.
If the country's in the tiolet it's because we failed to take action when the election was screwed with in 2000. We failed to take action when counties and states were reporting results with greater than 100% turnouts in 2004. Come on, surely not all of us slept through math class,some of us should remember that you can never have more than 100% except as a metaphor. I don't believe we elected a metaphor. Or did we?
No! We keep electing from the same two parties that are nothing short of 'Bought and Paid for pencil pushers.'! Few,if any, have the balls to stand up to big business,big oil, or big anything for that matter.
As far as torturers in the White House....you'd have to check with the Native Americans,they've been the constant target of genocide,torture and theft for the last 500 years and it's not letting up anytime soon.
The Administration,the Congress and the Media
are giving us exactly what we,supposedly support, 'garbage in-Garbage Out'
Jeffrey7

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Don't forget alberto gonzalez
[Report this comment]
Posted by: WhatNow? on Apr 17, 2008 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During his confirmation hearings he was asked, "would you consider cutting off someone's hand to be torture?"

Gonzalez's reply, "Well, uhhh, I guess so?"

I watched his confirmation live on the tele. I could not believe what I was seeing and hearing. This crook had to think about whether dismembering a body part was torture and then wasn't sure whether it was or not. You would think any decent and sane person would have immediately said it was torture but this scumbag wasn't sure.

You do have to give the nazi party some credit though. After seventy years they now accept latinos (gonzalez) and blacks (powell and rice).

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Try torturers in international court now
[Report this comment]
Posted by: Vic Fedorov on Apr 17, 2008 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since our domestic checks and balances are failing, the international community needs to step up the pressure against torture and the occupation of Iraq. People have been convicted in international court for waterboarding, and I think international court is the only place left to try the prosecutors of this war.

The U.N. should issue forth resolutions against waterboarding.

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Where are the Democrats?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: marizara on Apr 17, 2008 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're right next to me here, under the bed. -- The media has us so flipped out with the Panic driven headlines that we all decided to hide in here. -- Really, guys, you're killing us with all the apocalyptic language. -- Even in the election material? -- People who stop reacting to the news because they're too burnt out won't bother to read it at all soon. -- Then we'll really be in trouble.

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you mean its not '24'... ? "Standard Operating Procedure" & documentaries
[Report this comment]
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 17, 2008 10:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...
Taxi to the Dark Side... documentary

PBS Frontline: the torture question - watch the full program online

===
"There is no such thing as a little bit of torture." -- Alfred W. McCoy, author "A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror"

The familiar and disturbing pictures of torture at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison raise many troubling questions:
... How did torture become an accepted practice at Abu Ghraib?
... Did U.S. government policies make it possible?
... How much damage has the aftermath of Abu Ghraib had on America's credibility as a defender of freedom and human rights around the world?

Acclaimed filmmaker Rory Kennedy (HBO's "Indian Point: Imagining the Unimaginable") looks beyond the headlines to investigate the psychological and political context in which torture occurred when the powerful documentary GHOSTS OF ABU GHRAIB.

==
15th annual Hot Docs film fest unspools in Toronto
Standard Operating Procedure, award-winning U.S. filmmaker Errol Morris' examination of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, is among the notable films on the Hot Docs bill.

The titles are broken into a handful of different programs, such as special presentations, Canadian spectrum, international spectrum & world showcase.

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"do no harm"

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ABC News is the corporate media
[Report this comment]
Posted by: lynmarenjensen on Apr 17, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strange how people are screaming that the corporate media is ignoring this story when ABC News is the corporate media and if they hadn't broadcast this story, we wouldn't be discussing it. The actual question is, why haven't the other corporate media rushed to cover this story wall-to-wall a la Bill + Monica, and why haven't the Democrats been all over every media outlet they can find condemning the Bush Baby's approval of torture? Is it because they're terrified (savor the irony of that) that if they dare say what Dubya said was wrong, they'll be run out of office as supporters of terrorism? 9/11 happened almost four election cycles ago, but the Democrats are still scared to death that if they say out loud and in public that torture is not a tool to use against terrorists, mainstream America will vote Republican? Really?

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9/11 and torture
[Report this comment]
Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Apr 17, 2008 11:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can you expect the media to cover torture by a government that is responsible for the 9/11 disaster? If the current administration doesn't have a problem KILLING their own citizens, why would they worry about torturing foreigners? The media just can't seem to bring themselves to confront reality any more than the American public.

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» RE: 9/11 and torture Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: 9/11 and torture Posted by: Lauren
» Confronting Reality Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: 9/11 and torture Posted by: FiFi40

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as long as it is not discussed in the White House?
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Apr 17, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Then-Attorney General John Ashcroft was so troubled by the meetings, he was moved to object: "Why are we discussing this in the White House?" he asked, according to ABC. "History will not judge this kindly."

Ashcroft seemed to be troubled that their torture agenda would be judged by history because it was discussed in the White House. As long as it could be kept secret....and discussed somewhere else, it would have been ok, it seems to me.

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Why has it been ignored?
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Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Apr 17, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we haven't hung the people responsible, yet.

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» Wonder why that is? Posted by: Cathyc

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RE: For those who hadn't already been aware
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Posted by: EdinIowa on Apr 17, 2008 7:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And yet the many morons on the right, those who comprise the bulk of Fox's viewership, continue to believe in the myth of the "liberal media".



"It's not true that all conservatives are stupid, but it is true that most stupid people are conservative" John Stuart Mill (and it has to be added they have a real authoritarian bent to them.)

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Why is this such a big deal???
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Posted by: mjf23 on Apr 17, 2008 11:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tactics that have been "okayed" are juvenile compared to the torture tactics used by the enemies we are fighting...
Does anybody remember the journalist who had his head sawn off with a wood saw? Just an example of whats "okay" to do with American Pow's. Lets not forget that the rest of the world is NOT as civil as we are.
We are setting a good example by using techniques that do not have long-term physical effects.
Stop being such wimps about waterboarding and interrogation techniques used by our soldiers. If you had any idea of the horror's that they must go through to protect us, you wouldn't be so quick to judge these decisions. I support our troops but not our current regime. Torture is bad no matter what, but don't let the enemies think that they can get away with anything when it comes to torturing our own.
President Bush did not begin the hatred towards Americans (although he certainly didn't help). It is an introverted point of view to think it is our responsibility to protect those who want to harm us.

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You are lost in a dream, buddy.
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Posted by: Obijuan on Apr 17, 2008 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not about what individuals do to us. It's about what we do to them. We need to rise above. If you believe in Christ, ask yourself who would Jesus torture?

Torture doesn't work. You suggest cutting someone's head off has anything to do with this? That is murder. So now you should torture to get revenge for murder, even though it doesn't really do anything for your safety or help interrogations, and is illegal in your country and internationally? Or should you just invade a country for the oil contracts, while instigating a civil war that kills thousands and displaces millions while diluting your economy by borrowing and spending billions of dollars you didn't already have? Don't you feel your dollars getting lighter. We all love to visit, as any currency is better than the dollar...even the Canadian dollar is stronger LOL!

Like most of conservative America, you'd better wake up and apologize. Too bad that won't make up for the war crimes committed by your sad sad country. Good that your supreme court reinstated the death penalty. Now you really have another wonderful American institution back in full force. Good for you all. Another step backward. Soon more than half of your country will be illiterate...oh wait! You already are.

obi

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Suspend Your Subscriptions Until They Report It
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Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 17, 2008 2:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Suspend Your Subscriptions Until They Report It

According to Article 6, Section 2 of the US Constitution, international treaties are "the supreme law of the land."

This applies to the UN Convention Against Torture.

The domestic law, the 1996 War Crimes Act also applies.

Call your reps 202-224-3121

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» Call your Reps? Posted by: Cathyc

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D. Shenary
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Posted by: D. Shenary on Apr 17, 2008 5:23 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Torture planning sessions held in the White House would normally be considered reprehensible by Americans; however, we have been propagandized into fearing the unseen enemy. The argument is torture is preferable to mass casualties on our own lands. The sad part is this whole concept is a complete fraud. When the American people finally learn about the role played by the current administration in the events of 9-11, then you will see genuine anger and the torture issue will be resolved.

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» RE: D. Shenary Posted by: Lauren

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Truthers Wonder Why??????
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Posted by: Turiye on Apr 17, 2008 7:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They ignore the inane Bldg. #7 issue, the detonation issue because you all never move the F$$K on. You are not dealing with the NOW of the facts that MN's are being murdered, Troops and Iraqi's. Torture, Kidnapping, Murders, Illegal Occupation of a Sovereign nation we Invaded. It is NOT a surge, it is Troop Escalation.
Of course the cabal knew the Towers were going to be hit, but the nonsense you TRUTHERS keep on with screws the persons busy being murdered NOW.

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Naive connections
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Posted by: calibrit on Apr 18, 2008 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason the 9/11 Truthers are giving for hijacking a thread about the torture of detainees, is that if the "truth" about 9/11 comes out, people will be so horrified that they will turn against the US government's torture practices too.

I see not a shred of evidence for this point of view.

Let us say hypothetically, (says he gritting his teeth) that everything the 9/11 Truthers are saying is provably true, and that somehow it all gets reported fairly and openly in the media.

What then?

It's not as if it wasn't clear, to people who looked for the information, that we were going to war in 2003 based on lies.

It's not as if it isn't clear, to people who looked for the information, that Bush and his cabal personally approved of torture of detainees.

Yet the outrage still does not come - or if it comes, it doesn't translate into meaningful consequences for the criminals.

I can only surmise that it doesn't actually matter how good your evidence is (though, as I've said elsewhere, I think that in the case of 9/11 "Truth", it's a mountain of ill-digested supposition). People just don't care enough about bad stuff their government does.

I am dreaming of an Obama victory this fall. It won't solve everything. But God, it will be a relief.

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» RE: Naive connections Posted by: Lauren

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I'm ignoring you
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Posted by: robbie.seal on Apr 18, 2008 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you say something?

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Rove supports 9/11 Truth movement
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Posted by: whealeydj on Apr 20, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I beleive this statement since 9/11 truthers waste so much time. we should spend more time on the consequences of Bush hijacking the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and turning this country more authoritarian and militaristic. If I say agree with your suppositions can we move on and unite to fight to elect Obama (or even Clinton). Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader will never ever be elected. Only with an Obama election can we get change the Department of Justice (I dont expect much better from a Hillary Clinton Dept of Justice than we got from a Bill Clinton Dept of Justice or Supreme court nominees either). A McCain Dept of Justice will be just as bad as Bush's has been. We need to unite and win big since a close election will be stolen or contested and the corporate media wont be much help. We voters should DEMAND that League of Women Voters run any more debates since Conservative News Network and Far Out Xtreme right are even more untrustworthy that All Nationalist Bull Shit of the other three. If Obama wins he should say I win only agree to BBC ( or NPR/ PBS) questioners.

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Why?
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Posted by: talkville on Apr 21, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How did the USA become the most heavily armed and weaponized and economic power ever beheld on the planet?

By IGNORING realities and doing what we want. Capitalists and barbarians call this: "freedom". This Gift they visit on the planet. There's a host of countries who have received and are receiving this Gift, and they must be taught to appreciate it. Why, when they take the wrapping away, they are held in such an awesome Debt of Gratitude, which ever so Humbly is received with great solemnity back at Headquarters. The Mighty Son has learned well from Mommy's Experience and carries her teachings forward.

Why print Stories like this one, when so much nicer, cleaner, happier stuff is available from the latest about American Idol, Survivor and the latest antics among our celebrated young nobilities? Torture is, well, so.... Earthy for such a Godly Nation.

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Where is the media? Where are the Democrats?
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Apr 21, 2008 6:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In the counting house, counting out their money".

What used to be OUR money.

Ian

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What's wrong with people.
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Posted by: jeffreytaos on Apr 23, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Brother and Sister fight amongst each other mincing words like minced meat pie, once a common food, now a luxury, millions die, not enough to eat, blame the bio-fuelers, but the greed is in the cornfields, and at the pump, seee george oilwell, master puppeteer for the new united front...ak with the poet's rap, lets start now to watch our backs. It seemes so possible that the presidential race is an orchestrated lie, or is it just that Hillary is so desperate to be in that house once again, see all of her friends in the machine in Philadelphia, the ones she thanked in Penns. celebratory speech the other day, yes the democratic well oiled machine that runs candidates in and out of the house according to their deeds and allegiance, clinton, the same old machine, and yet, there have been these prophesies for many years now about first, the food, and then the water, brothers and sisters, no matter who wins or loses, we all lose, if we don't prepare ourselves for the coming struggle, sadly the wealthy few will access this food and water, and leave the rest of us to fight among ourselves......for months, I have seen this fighting on the web, and asked myself, how did we ever get so far out of the web, as to think we were not in the same boat. Rising tides, changing weather, increased costs....yes, they would rather sell the corn for oil than for food, and nobody thinks to plant another field or guarantee the prices, they want us to have a food shortage, who is they, look at the machine, at the purveyors of a new world order, at the greed that line the halls of the marbled buildings, and see where the money goes, not in your bank or mine, but in a pocket somewhere in the middle east or asia, a bailout, a debt, a promise, but of you and me, what are we, enemies or friends? If not brothers and sisters, then what are we?

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Alternet Comments:

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Perhaps because the Constitution has been suspended?
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Posted by: LeftWright on Apr 17, 2008 12:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look into "continuity of government" that was begun on the morning of 9/11/01, start with this blog:

One of the top investigative journalists in the country, Larisa Alexandrovna (the lead journalist at Raw Story), says the following concerning her attempts to determine whether or not the U.S. is still officially in a state of emergency, such as would justify the continuition of Continuity of Government (COG) Plans implemented on 9/11:

"Well, I have called around... believe it or not, no seems to have an answer as to this simple question: 'are we in a state of emergency?' "

Keep in mind that Alexandrovna has broken many top stories, later picked up by the New York Times and other mainstream publications, and has developed a broad network of contacts. And yet she couldn't find an answer.

We need to ask all our members of Congress about the "state of emergency" and "continuity of government" asap.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

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» is it liberalism that has failed? Posted by: KaptainSpiffy
» Defeatist mush. Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» Agreed, Keepson Tickn Posted by: LeftWright
» This is so frustrating Posted by: calibrit
» RE: Agreed, Keepson Tickn Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: Quannah
» Where in NJ are you, EncinoM? Posted by: LeftWright
» Give them a call today, EncinoM Posted by: LeftWright
» You guessed wrong, blitzmesser, Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: Lauren
» Idealist fancy Posted by: progdem
» Your solution is...? Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Your solution is...? Posted by: progdem
» RE: Your solution is...? Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Idealist fancy Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Defeatist mush. Posted by: peacefullaim
» Rape, theft. . . Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: ape, theft. . . Posted by: Lauren
» Don't blame the victims? Posted by: Cathyc
» You got it Bibsisis! Posted by: peacefullaim

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Terrorist
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Posted by: HeKnew on Apr 17, 2008 12:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The coup has been over for eight years, now. We of the Left have to wait a little longer for economic conditions to deteriorate and then it will be possible to push back.

Anyone who has difficulty believing these grim realities or is just now catching on that the fascists have taken over, please stay home. Vote Republican. Be safe. Buy a new TV.

Direct Democracy

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» Welcome to Alternet. Posted by: KeepsonTickn
» RE: Terrorist Posted by: Bibsisis

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Bye, Bye, holidays in europe !
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Posted by: saltoafronteira on Apr 17, 2008 1:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As europe is filled of liberal nut justices, and those tipe of crimes come under universal jurisdiction, I believe the whole two bush administrations will never again set foot in europe (UK excepted, of course), after they leave office.
I's a pity, because I myself would be eager to see many of them sitting in milosevich's, or goering's, seat.
At least, I expect arrest warrants to be issued and given to all police and frontier controls in schengen space.

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» saltoafronteira... Posted by: Quannah
» Thank you... Posted by: Centavo

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Why is a 9/11 False-flag CoverUp that started "war on terror" Being Ignored?
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Posted by: Mister_PsyOps on Apr 17, 2008 4:14 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Might as well ask why the "Federal Reserve" Corp (not federal and no reserves) bails out corporate mobsters as Washington pays for endless phony war on the public nickel.

It's just business as usual at Fascist plantation USA where nothing is as advertised and the worst you can imagine can't be far from the truth.

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» Where's your EVIDENCE, EncinoM? Posted by: LeftWright

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The Mass Media
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Posted by: Rolomax on Apr 17, 2008 4:18 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
nm

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They really are fascists
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Posted by: citizenjoe on Apr 17, 2008 4:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If you want a national empire, you must show the other nations that they are inferior. You do this in part by torturing their citizens. These are central elements of fascism. Torture has everything to do with teaching inferiority and nothing to do with getting information. Get it? Bush and Cheney and the rest of them are really, truly fascists.Too bad Americans have no clue whatever about what fascism is.

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ABC and the torture story
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Posted by: sigridsmith on Apr 17, 2008 4:39 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last night ABC had a perfect chance for follow-up on their torture story. Why in the world didn't they ask Obama and Clinton what they would have done in this situation. It is a question that could have vindicated Bush,or exposed Bush; shown the Dems as being more thoughtful, or foolish; and shown who obfuscates and who is clear on difficult issues. They could have asked if they would do anything about the investigation after they are elected. Already, we have seen that the Freepers lept on Obama for saying that he would put the Attorney General on the case while overjoying those of us on the left. What would Clinton do?

In addition, ABC could have put themselves in the forefront of investigative reporting by reminding the world that they broke the story (finally).

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» Boycott ABC Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: Boycott ABC Posted by: Lauren
» RE: ABC and the torture story Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» TMZ? Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: TMZ? Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» pardon. Chuck Todd Posted by: Ripcord

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Why do YOU coverup the story about the truth/lies of 9/11???
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Posted by: pfgetty on Apr 17, 2008 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is this story being covered up???
Same question I ask about the inconsistencies and lies of the official story of 9/11.
But when I ask THIS question, it is Alternet I am questioning............WHY DO YOU IGNORE THIS STORY?
The same kind of question, the same kind of non answers we get.
Why should the media answer your questions about torture when you don't answer the questions about 9/11?
9/11 is the mother of all of these questions. Answer this one, and the answers to questions about torture are obvious.
Get to the bottom of 9/11 truth and we will have the American people, ALL of them, up in arms about the horror we have done to detainees, innocent families that have been bombed and massacred all over the world, and the wasting of trillions of dollars on insane wars, occupations and military base building.

C'mon and open your eyes. YOU are part of the media, and YOU are censuring the truth, just like the media you criticize.

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» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: Fishbone Soldier
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: There's just one thing Posted by: Lauren

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The Democrats are asking for a "news strike"
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Posted by: surfreality on Apr 17, 2008 5:59 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://www.democrats.com/torture-news-strike

As to the poster above, the Alternet "cover up" of 9/11 is not related to the subject at hand.

MSM has reported that POTUS has approved torture. He has flat out admitted it. As of yet, not 1 person involved in the so called 9/11 conspiracy has admitted their role and implicated others or proven that they were directed by members of the government to bring about the catastrophe on 9/11.
1000s would have had to have been involved, yet now almost 7 years later, not 1 person has stepped forward and said: "Here's my role in how it went down."

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» This is a CROCK Posted by: FireDrake

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Blame American attitude: hear no evil, see no evil, say no evil about America
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Posted by: PakiBoy on Apr 17, 2008 6:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans don't want to face the truth. They are willing to believe, contrary to all the evidence, that their government ALWAYS has noble intentions, and only few bad apples do the 'bad' things.

Media is only giving them what Americans want.

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Why the news won't cover it.
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Posted by: Bastet62 on Apr 17, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The corporate media doesn't report the news that Americans need to know about because these corporations have a vested interest in the continuation of all aspects of the Bush regime.

While America was sleeping or watching Britney Spears latest mental melt-down our Constitution was being trashed, human rights obliterated, torture codified, and more of the same is in the works.

It's time people STOPPED thinking inside the old box that no longer works. Go to worldcantwait.org and find out what to do about all this.

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Of course it's the corporate press coverage.
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Apr 17, 2008 6:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Shocked? Upset? Outraged? Have you had your head under a rock for the past ten years?

Of course our media distorts the news, ignores stories that make corporations looks bad, pimps up nonsense, works to promote lies put out by government officials, ignores the criminal behavior of their favored president, and refuses to mention Bush and impeachment in the same sentence - etc. etc. There are entire areas on news that they just won't cover - the occupation in Iraq, U.S. trade policy and its effects in countries like Indonesia and Nigeria, the efforts by telecom companies to exert tight control over the Internet.

If you don't like that theme, you can look at the U.S. corporate press ownership by consolidated corporate interests like State Street, Barclays, Vanguard, Fidelity, Dodge & Cox, etc. - who also are majority shareholders in the international oil companies, arms manufacturers, agribusiness corporations, telecoms, pharmaceuticals, etc. They work closely with the public relations industry to plant "stories" that are really just PR releases by corporations.

It's a propaganda system that censors stories and news to present a pro-corporate, pro-Wall Street view of the world. There are entire stories that they refuse to cover at their owner's insistence - and reporters who persist in their efforts are fired routinely.

It's time for a new campaign against the media - one that will only end with breakup of the media conglomerates. You can count on the corporate press not to cover any such effort.

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The Torturer Movie!
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Posted by: grahamhgreen on Apr 17, 2008 7:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here is a film that details the torture policies of the Bush administration in a way that is fun and accessible.

http://thetorturermovie.com/

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» RE: The Torturer Movie! Posted by: johnbradleycopeland

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It's all part of the corporate fascist media..!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: TJ-stars4peace on Apr 17, 2008 8:44 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we have a fascist corporate Media..?

Remember A Consolidated Media is Essential to a Properly Functioning Fascism..!

Simple as that..

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Papal PRIVACY & MalWare alerts from Google for 'School of the Americas Watch' site...
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 17, 2008 8:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
they want you to know, if you LOOK...

...you could go *electronically blind*...

avert thine eyes!!

& the POPE wants you to know... "there is no such thing as privacy"

Human right to PRIVACY? you don't need no stinking PRIVACY! G*d knows what YOU DID!! & HE is more worried about THAT than torture!


Vice
.
.
.
Think about it...

The Thieves of Virtue: legislating morality undermines representative government.

really, VICE is contextual:
* gender
* ethnicity
* age
* race...

all pay a part in morals. but VICE, should never be *criminalized*, especially in a nation where PRIVACY has been abolished.

Who is PERFECT ENOUGH to represent THE PEOPLE or a populist reform when there is neither privacy nor the Will to preserve privacy in society?
Who stands *for the People* when Money & Power exert corrosive controls to extend their oppression & corruption?

You've been *had*

Nobody is immune to *vice* as VICE is about how ONE PERSON privately & personally determines *how to enjoy their own body*...

Naked Truth: Civil Rights & CNN coverage of "F.B.I. biometric database - 'Server in the Sky'"
...& THAT is how THE MORAL MAJORITY ensured Money & Power will kill representative government for The Peoples who seek JUSTICE, Freedom & Human Rights.

"corruption is why we win":
"Yell Fire!": Bush to freeze peace activist assets? - Executive Order to "Blocking Property of Certain Persons Who Threaten Stabilization Efforts in Iraq"

NSA's Domestic Spying Grows As Agency Sweeps Up Data

Diamond Age? - Kids, RFID Chips... & Minority Reporting?!: thoughts on the new US Project Hostile Intent (PHI)

Watching the "Ownership Society": follow-ups on Shareholder Surveillance...


~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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TV news sucks
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Posted by: Grandma Crabby on Apr 17, 2008 9:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The corporate news media in this country is SO BAD, it makes Pravda look like gold star journalism.

I worked many years in TV news. Back in the "good old days" (the 80's) the management (local at that time) wanted us to cover actual news! As the years went by, the management, no longer local, told us point blank, "JOURNALISM DOESN'T WORK," and they refused to let us cover anything but BS. It was ridiculous beyond belief.

On a side note, I've been doing some political comedy videos and posting them on you tube and other places. Some are on my video production tips blog which has a link below. My two personal favorites are the ones where I make fun of Hillary for her Bosnia lie and another where I ask Bill O'Reilly why he needs to use a loofah. Go check them out and pass them around!
Grandma looks bee-u-ti-fool in her blue yarn wig!



VideoProductionTips = Learn Internet Video

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fespada
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Posted by: fespada on Apr 17, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been 38 violent deaths of individuals vaguely connected to the Kennedy assassination. The techniques are very direct: any disclosure means death, to the individual and to his/her family.
Sounds fantastic? A bit of reading about how fascists were able to control the general public will possibly give you a clue.
Further, when broken into digestible pieces, tried and true totalitarian experience have done the job: You talk, you, and your family, die.

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» RE: fespada Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: fespada Posted by: Lauren

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fespada
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fespada on Apr 17, 2008 9:20 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There have been 38 violent deaths of individuals vaguely connected to the Kennedy assassination. The techniques are very direct: any disclosure means death, to the individual and to his/her family.
Sounds fantastic? A bit of reading about how fascists were able to control the general public will possibly give you a clue.
Further, when broken into digestible pieces, tried and true totalitarian experience have done the job: You talk, you, and your family, die.

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» Talk to who? Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Talk to who? Posted by: Lauren

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Where is the Media...Where are the democrats?
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Apr 17, 2008 9:36 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why, they are supporting it silly!!! Think about it,the press has'nt been on the side of the people since the Reagan/Bush days and Iran/
Contra,or for that matter Arabscam. The democrats sold out a long time ago so they have become flacid.
If the country's in the tiolet it's because we failed to take action when the election was screwed with in 2000. We failed to take action when counties and states were reporting results with greater than 100% turnouts in 2004. Come on, surely not all of us slept through math class,some of us should remember that you can never have more than 100% except as a metaphor. I don't believe we elected a metaphor. Or did we?
No! We keep electing from the same two parties that are nothing short of 'Bought and Paid for pencil pushers.'! Few,if any, have the balls to stand up to big business,big oil, or big anything for that matter.
As far as torturers in the White House....you'd have to check with the Native Americans,they've been the constant target of genocide,torture and theft for the last 500 years and it's not letting up anytime soon.
The Administration,the Congress and the Media
are giving us exactly what we,supposedly support, 'garbage in-Garbage Out'
Jeffrey7

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Don't forget alberto gonzalez
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Posted by: WhatNow? on Apr 17, 2008 9:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During his confirmation hearings he was asked, "would you consider cutting off someone's hand to be torture?"

Gonzalez's reply, "Well, uhhh, I guess so?"

I watched his confirmation live on the tele. I could not believe what I was seeing and hearing. This crook had to think about whether dismembering a body part was torture and then wasn't sure whether it was or not. You would think any decent and sane person would have immediately said it was torture but this scumbag wasn't sure.

You do have to give the nazi party some credit though. After seventy years they now accept latinos (gonzalez) and blacks (powell and rice).

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Try torturers in international court now
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Posted by: Vic Fedorov on Apr 17, 2008 10:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Since our domestic checks and balances are failing, the international community needs to step up the pressure against torture and the occupation of Iraq. People have been convicted in international court for waterboarding, and I think international court is the only place left to try the prosecutors of this war.

The U.N. should issue forth resolutions against waterboarding.

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Where are the Democrats?
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Posted by: marizara on Apr 17, 2008 10:15 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They're right next to me here, under the bed. -- The media has us so flipped out with the Panic driven headlines that we all decided to hide in here. -- Really, guys, you're killing us with all the apocalyptic language. -- Even in the election material? -- People who stop reacting to the news because they're too burnt out won't bother to read it at all soon. -- Then we'll really be in trouble.

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you mean its not '24'... ? "Standard Operating Procedure" & documentaries
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Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Apr 17, 2008 10:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...
Taxi to the Dark Side... documentary

PBS Frontline: the torture question - watch the full program online

===
"There is no such thing as a little bit of torture." -- Alfred W. McCoy, author "A Question of Torture: CIA Interrogation, from the Cold War to the War on Terror"

The familiar and disturbing pictures of torture at Iraq's Abu Ghraib prison raise many troubling questions:
... How did torture become an accepted practice at Abu Ghraib?
... Did U.S. government policies make it possible?
... How much damage has the aftermath of Abu Ghraib had on America's credibility as a defender of freedom and human rights around the world?

Acclaimed filmmaker Rory Kennedy (HBO's "Indian Point: Imagining the Unimaginable") looks beyond the headlines to investigate the psychological and political context in which torture occurred when the powerful documentary GHOSTS OF ABU GHRAIB.

==
15th annual Hot Docs film fest unspools in Toronto
Standard Operating Procedure, award-winning U.S. filmmaker Errol Morris' examination of the Abu Ghraib prisoner abuse scandal, is among the notable films on the Hot Docs bill.

The titles are broken into a handful of different programs, such as special presentations, Canadian spectrum, international spectrum & world showcase.

~~~
Spread Love...

BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian com
~~~
"We, two, form a Multitude" ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
"do no harm"

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ABC News is the corporate media
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Posted by: lynmarenjensen on Apr 17, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Strange how people are screaming that the corporate media is ignoring this story when ABC News is the corporate media and if they hadn't broadcast this story, we wouldn't be discussing it. The actual question is, why haven't the other corporate media rushed to cover this story wall-to-wall a la Bill + Monica, and why haven't the Democrats been all over every media outlet they can find condemning the Bush Baby's approval of torture? Is it because they're terrified (savor the irony of that) that if they dare say what Dubya said was wrong, they'll be run out of office as supporters of terrorism? 9/11 happened almost four election cycles ago, but the Democrats are still scared to death that if they say out loud and in public that torture is not a tool to use against terrorists, mainstream America will vote Republican? Really?

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9/11 and torture
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Posted by: edgeofnowhere on Apr 17, 2008 11:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can you expect the media to cover torture by a government that is responsible for the 9/11 disaster? If the current administration doesn't have a problem KILLING their own citizens, why would they worry about torturing foreigners? The media just can't seem to bring themselves to confront reality any more than the American public.

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» RE: 9/11 and torture Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: 9/11 and torture Posted by: Lauren
» Confronting Reality Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: 9/11 and torture Posted by: FiFi40

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as long as it is not discussed in the White House?
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Apr 17, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Then-Attorney General John Ashcroft was so troubled by the meetings, he was moved to object: "Why are we discussing this in the White House?" he asked, according to ABC. "History will not judge this kindly."

Ashcroft seemed to be troubled that their torture agenda would be judged by history because it was discussed in the White House. As long as it could be kept secret....and discussed somewhere else, it would have been ok, it seems to me.

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Why has it been ignored?
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Posted by: meetmeineleusis on Apr 17, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because we haven't hung the people responsible, yet.

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» Wonder why that is? Posted by: Cathyc

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RE: For those who hadn't already been aware
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Posted by: EdinIowa on Apr 17, 2008 7:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And yet the many morons on the right, those who comprise the bulk of Fox's viewership, continue to believe in the myth of the "liberal media".



"It's not true that all conservatives are stupid, but it is true that most stupid people are conservative" John Stuart Mill (and it has to be added they have a real authoritarian bent to them.)

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Why is this such a big deal???
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Posted by: mjf23 on Apr 17, 2008 11:46 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The tactics that have been "okayed" are juvenile compared to the torture tactics used by the enemies we are fighting...
Does anybody remember the journalist who had his head sawn off with a wood saw? Just an example of whats "okay" to do with American Pow's. Lets not forget that the rest of the world is NOT as civil as we are.
We are setting a good example by using techniques that do not have long-term physical effects.
Stop being such wimps about waterboarding and interrogation techniques used by our soldiers. If you had any idea of the horror's that they must go through to protect us, you wouldn't be so quick to judge these decisions. I support our troops but not our current regime. Torture is bad no matter what, but don't let the enemies think that they can get away with anything when it comes to torturing our own.
President Bush did not begin the hatred towards Americans (although he certainly didn't help). It is an introverted point of view to think it is our responsibility to protect those who want to harm us.

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You are lost in a dream, buddy.
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Posted by: Obijuan on Apr 17, 2008 12:02 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's not about what individuals do to us. It's about what we do to them. We need to rise above. If you believe in Christ, ask yourself who would Jesus torture?

Torture doesn't work. You suggest cutting someone's head off has anything to do with this? That is murder. So now you should torture to get revenge for murder, even though it doesn't really do anything for your safety or help interrogations, and is illegal in your country and internationally? Or should you just invade a country for the oil contracts, while instigating a civil war that kills thousands and displaces millions while diluting your economy by borrowing and spending billions of dollars you didn't already have? Don't you feel your dollars getting lighter. We all love to visit, as any currency is better than the dollar...even the Canadian dollar is stronger LOL!

Like most of conservative America, you'd better wake up and apologize. Too bad that won't make up for the war crimes committed by your sad sad country. Good that your supreme court reinstated the death penalty. Now you really have another wonderful American institution back in full force. Good for you all. Another step backward. Soon more than half of your country will be illiterate...oh wait! You already are.

obi

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Suspend Your Subscriptions Until They Report It
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Posted by: fanny666 on Apr 17, 2008 2:42 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Suspend Your Subscriptions Until They Report It

According to Article 6, Section 2 of the US Constitution, international treaties are "the supreme law of the land."

This applies to the UN Convention Against Torture.

The domestic law, the 1996 War Crimes Act also applies.

Call your reps 202-224-3121

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» Call your Reps? Posted by: Cathyc

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D. Shenary
[Report this comment]
Posted by: D. Shenary on Apr 17, 2008 5:23 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Torture planning sessions held in the White House would normally be considered reprehensible by Americans; however, we have been propagandized into fearing the unseen enemy. The argument is torture is preferable to mass casualties on our own lands. The sad part is this whole concept is a complete fraud. When the American people finally learn about the role played by the current administration in the events of 9-11, then you will see genuine anger and the torture issue will be resolved.

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» RE: D. Shenary Posted by: Lauren

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Truthers Wonder Why??????
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Posted by: Turiye on Apr 17, 2008 7:17 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They ignore the inane Bldg. #7 issue, the detonation issue because you all never move the F$$K on. You are not dealing with the NOW of the facts that MN's are being murdered, Troops and Iraqi's. Torture, Kidnapping, Murders, Illegal Occupation of a Sovereign nation we Invaded. It is NOT a surge, it is Troop Escalation.
Of course the cabal knew the Towers were going to be hit, but the nonsense you TRUTHERS keep on with screws the persons busy being murdered NOW.

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Naive connections
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Posted by: calibrit on Apr 18, 2008 9:34 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The reason the 9/11 Truthers are giving for hijacking a thread about the torture of detainees, is that if the "truth" about 9/11 comes out, people will be so horrified that they will turn against the US government's torture practices too.

I see not a shred of evidence for this point of view.

Let us say hypothetically, (says he gritting his teeth) that everything the 9/11 Truthers are saying is provably true, and that somehow it all gets reported fairly and openly in the media.

What then?

It's not as if it wasn't clear, to people who looked for the information, that we were going to war in 2003 based on lies.

It's not as if it isn't clear, to people who looked for the information, that Bush and his cabal personally approved of torture of detainees.

Yet the outrage still does not come - or if it comes, it doesn't translate into meaningful consequences for the criminals.

I can only surmise that it doesn't actually matter how good your evidence is (though, as I've said elsewhere, I think that in the case of 9/11 "Truth", it's a mountain of ill-digested supposition). People just don't care enough about bad stuff their government does.

I am dreaming of an Obama victory this fall. It won't solve everything. But God, it will be a relief.

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» RE: Naive connections Posted by: Lauren

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I'm ignoring you
[Report this comment]
Posted by: robbie.seal on Apr 18, 2008 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Did you say something?

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Rove supports 9/11 Truth movement
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Posted by: whealeydj on Apr 20, 2008 5:49 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I beleive this statement since 9/11 truthers waste so much time. we should spend more time on the consequences of Bush hijacking the Constitution and the Bill of Rights and turning this country more authoritarian and militaristic. If I say agree with your suppositions can we move on and unite to fight to elect Obama (or even Clinton). Cynthia McKinney or Ralph Nader will never ever be elected. Only with an Obama election can we get change the Department of Justice (I dont expect much better from a Hillary Clinton Dept of Justice than we got from a Bill Clinton Dept of Justice or Supreme court nominees either). A McCain Dept of Justice will be just as bad as Bush's has been. We need to unite and win big since a close election will be stolen or contested and the corporate media wont be much help. We voters should DEMAND that League of Women Voters run any more debates since Conservative News Network and Far Out Xtreme right are even more untrustworthy that All Nationalist Bull Shit of the other three. If Obama wins he should say I win only agree to BBC ( or NPR/ PBS) questioners.

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Why?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: talkville on Apr 21, 2008 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How did the USA become the most heavily armed and weaponized and economic power ever beheld on the planet?

By IGNORING realities and doing what we want. Capitalists and barbarians call this: "freedom". This Gift they visit on the planet. There's a host of countries who have received and are receiving this Gift, and they must be taught to appreciate it. Why, when they take the wrapping away, they are held in such an awesome Debt of Gratitude, which ever so Humbly is received with great solemnity back at Headquarters. The Mighty Son has learned well from Mommy's Experience and carries her teachings forward.

Why print Stories like this one, when so much nicer, cleaner, happier stuff is available from the latest about American Idol, Survivor and the latest antics among our celebrated young nobilities? Torture is, well, so.... Earthy for such a Godly Nation.

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Where is the media? Where are the Democrats?
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Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Apr 21, 2008 6:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In the counting house, counting out their money".

What used to be OUR money.

Ian

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What's wrong with people.
[Report this comment]
Posted by: jeffreytaos on Apr 23, 2008 6:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Brother and Sister fight amongst each other mincing words like minced meat pie, once a common food, now a luxury, millions die, not enough to eat, blame the bio-fuelers, but the greed is in the cornfields, and at the pump, seee george oilwell, master puppeteer for the new united front...ak with the poet's rap, lets start now to watch our backs. It seemes so possible that the presidential race is an orchestrated lie, or is it just that Hillary is so desperate to be in that house once again, see all of her friends in the machine in Philadelphia, the ones she thanked in Penns. celebratory speech the other day, yes the democratic well oiled machine that runs candidates in and out of the house according to their deeds and allegiance, clinton, the same old machine, and yet, there have been these prophesies for many years now about first, the food, and then the water, brothers and sisters, no matter who wins or loses, we all lose, if we don't prepare ourselves for the coming struggle, sadly the wealthy few will access this food and water, and leave the rest of us to fight among ourselves......for months, I have seen this fighting on the web, and asked myself, how did we ever get so far out of the web, as to think we were not in the same boat. Rising tides, changing weather, increased costs....yes, they would rather sell the corn for oil than for food, and nobody thinks to plant another field or guarantee the prices, they want us to have a food shortage, who is they, look at the machine, at the purveyors of a new world order, at the greed that line the halls of the marbled buildings, and see where the money goes, not in your bank or mine, but in a pocket somewhere in the middle east or asia, a bailout, a debt, a promise, but of you and me, what are we, enemies or friends? If not brothers and sisters, then what are we?

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