COMMENTS: 59
Bush Policy: Quick Border Fence Trumps the Environment
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On Tuesday, it declared that it's going to ignore some 30 environmental laws and regulations in order to accelerate its project to build a wall separating the United States from Mexico. Michael Chertoff, Secretary of the Department of Homeland Security, issued the order, with an ominous warning. "Criminal activity at the border does not stop for endless debate or protracted litigation," he said. Cutting through the legal red tape "will enable important security projects to keep moving forward."
Like fear-mongering, flouting the law is part of the daily grind in the Bush administration -- but in this case, Chertoff is doing nothing illegal. The power to waive the law in the name of national security was granted to him specifically by Congress in 2005. The "REAL ID Act," passed as a rider to an Iraq funding bill, declared that the head of the Department of Homeland Security could waive any laws standing in the way of "expeditious construction of … barriers and roads" along the border.
It was not the first time Chertoff has invoked such a waiver -- DHS has used them before to push through fencing in Arizona and San Diego -- but it was definitely his most sweeping order to date. It advances DHS's proposal to erect towers and high-tech surveillance equipment along a sprawling 470-mile span of the border in California, Arizona, New Mexico and Texas. Originally, such action was supposed to be a last resort, but, as Tuesday's order demonstrates, this is hardly proving to be the case.
Aside from the troubling implications of the DHS Secretary overriding the law to push politically-motivated agendas, many critics of this measure are the same who have long argued that a border fence would have a devastating impact on the environment in border areas. Among them is the Sierra Club, which last year took DHS to federal court to try to get Chertoff's special powers revoked. (They lost. Aside from the fact that the REAL ID law included a provision essentially insulating it from court review, in December, a federal judge found nothing unconstitutional about Chertoff's power's, since he can only exercise them on a case-by-case basis.) "Secretary Chertoff chose to bypass stakeholders and push through this unpopular project on April Fools' Day," said Sierra Club Executive Director Carl Pope on Tuesday. "We don't think the destruction of the borderlands region is a laughing matter."
Chertoff's response to environmentalists has been to turn around and say that, in fact, it is illegal immigration that is bad for the environment. "I've seen pictures of human waste, garbage, discarded bottles and other human artifact in pristine areas," Chertoff said last fall. "And believe me, that is the worst thing you can do to the environment."
Current controversy aside, the border "fence" is one of those harebrained schemes that might be funny if it weren't so cynical and racist. A perennial favorite of the anti-immigrant right, the idea to construct a wall along the U.S. border with Mexico has been afloat for decades. More recently, historic immigration levels and the post-9/11 political landscape have legitimized the project in the name of national security. Part of a broad emphasis on border control by the Bush administration, which likes to boast about its success keeping out "illegals" -- under Bush, the budget for border security has more than doubled, from $4.6 billion in 2001 to $10.4 billion -- the border fence was officially codified in the Secure Fence Act of 2006.
Passed by the House and Senate in September 2006, the Secure Fence Act mandated the construction of a barrier stretching along a 700-mile portion of the 1,969-mile U.S.-Mexico border. The measure was a bipartisan effort; with the midterm elections weeks away, many lawmakers considered it a political imperative. As Texas Republican John Cornyn put it, bluntly: "The choice we were presented was: Are we going to vote to enhance border security, or against it?" The bill passed 80 to 19 in the Senate. Both Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama voted for it.
But confusion about what kind of shape the "fence" would take emerged almost immediately. "No sooner did Congress authorize construction of a 700-mile fence on the U.S.-Mexico border last week than lawmakers rushed to approve separate legislation that ensures it will never be built, at least not as advertised," the Washington Post reported in early October. What was supposed to be an order to build a long and towering concrete wall had quickly morphed into the White House and DHS's desire to allocate funds for a "virtual fence," emphasizing surveillance technology and "tactical infrastructure," to build what Bush called "the most technologically advanced border security initiative in American history." Logistical confusion aside, on October 26, 2006, Bush signed the Secure Fence Act into law.
For an administration that has so cunningly displaced government with marketing, the border fence was a PR problem from the start. Aside from the fact that it's a costly mess of a project that has angered people across the political spectrum, on the ground in Texas, Arizona, and other states, the administration has infuriated local municipalities by systematically overriding their say in what happens in their own backyard. (In Texas, to date, it has sued 50 landowners for access to their properties.) The massive project has even underscored the country's reliance on immigrant labor. In one rather delicious twist of irony, two months after Bush signing the Secure Fence Act, a California company called Golden State Fence Company was forced pay some $5 million in fines for hiring illegal immigrants. Around the same time, a December 2006 study by the Congressional Research Service estimated that the cost of building a double steel fence -- which supporters of the wall argue is necessary for it to be effective -- at a whopping $49 billion, a figure that didn't even include the high cost of acquiring hundreds of miles of private land or, for that matter, the high cost of private contractors who would likely be doing the job.
It didn't help that the idea of a border fence had become associated with wingnuts like the Minutemen, an anti-immigrant group founded in 2004 by retired accountant Jim Gilchrist, who decided that when it came to enforcing the border, it was time for people to take matters into their own hands. Recently, infighting has dragged the down the movement -- Arizona-based Minuteman Civil Defense Corps leader Chris Simcox, who once lovingly described the fence to be as "our high-tech, double-layered gauntlet of deterrent" has been accused of massive mismanagement of member donations -- and last fall, CNN aired an embarrassing report on the Minutemen, partly laying out what their efforts have wrought. (The answer: A "cow" fence. And a lot of confusion.)
On the government side, the border fence project has been plagued with management and technical problems -- particularly the "virtual" fence that DHS has made a priority. This past February, the Government Accountability Office released a report on "Project 28" -- a surveillance initiative focusing on 28 miles of the Arizona border -- concluding that the project is severely delayed. A contract to implement the project was awarded to Boeing in September 2006 to the tune of $67 million. (It has actually been paid over $85 million.) Halfway into its three-year contract, it became clear it was becoming a costly failure. At a government hearing on Feb 27, 2008, DHS officials admitted to myriad technical setbacks, including problems with Boeing's software. Gregory Giddens, head of the DHS Secure Border Initiative, said the virtual fence will be finished some time in 2011 instead of by the end of this year.
(Meanwhile, a frustrated Michael Chertoff, who once sported a welding mask for CNN cameras to demonstrate his commitment to the border fence, jotted down angsty musings on his DHS "Leadership Blog." "I've seen this system work with my own eyes, and I've talked with the Border Patrol Agents who are using it. They assure me that it adds value. That's what matters to me, and it's a fact that cannot be denied.")
Anti-immigrant activists have been angered by such setbacks, arguing that the concrete wall has always been the way to go. As Ira Mehlman, national media director for anti-immigrant Federation for American Immigration Reform said last month: "the virtual border fence is virtually useless and an actual waste of money."
News of Chertoff's power grab on Tuesday should please those who want the government to stop screwing around with costly technology and build that concrete wall already. On CNN Tuesday, Lou Dobbs (whose new life mission seems to be to convince the American public that battling immigration is the most important part of the War on Drug) applauded the measure, praising Chertoff -- "Good for him. This shows real resolve" -- while also (rather hilariously) anticipating the protests that will follow from what he called those "snarky little chipmunks on the left."
Despite Chertoff's claims that the border fence can be completed by the end of 2008, its construction will more than likely extend into a new presidential administration, meaning that either Obama, Clinton or McCain will inherit the project. At this point, none will say anything of substance about how they will take it on. With immigration poised to be a major campaign issue, now would be a good time for them to recognize it for the misguided mess that it is.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Annapurna1 on Apr 3, 2008 1:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
anyone that thinks that the crooked (and powerful and politically connected) employers that used to use them will simply pony up and pay american wages for illegal alien jobs is sadly mistaken...
those jobs are currently held by some 12 million illegals...however..the bosses already have a cheaper-labour alternative to replace those 12 million illegals if the tancredoes and hunters get their way (which appears to be the case) and the illegals were gone ..
its called the convict lease system..."convict" is prolly the wrong word..since much of this prison labour wont be convicted in a court-of-law but rather seized under the military commissions act...
in any case..we can safely expect a fivefold increase in prison populations in order to replace illegal immigrant labour...the current prison population of 2.5 million is equal to the city of chicago.. under this system..it would be larger than the whole state of illinois...
and should you become one of those 12 million americans ensnared in this new economy..you will be far worse off than any illegal immigrant is today...if your not..you will still have to compete against that workforce...and competing against the gulag means accepting the conditions of the gulag.. while the prison industry charges you thousands of dollars per inmate in taxes...
the soviets justified their own imperialism in the name of "liberating peoples oppressed by decadent regimes"...the soviets built a wall to "keep the enemy out"...(that should sound familiar)...and for much of its history..the soviets had an economy that revolved around prison slave labour...
so now my question is ..who won the cold war??...
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» RE: to the victors go the rot in the soul
Posted by: QCao009
» RE: beware the berlin wall...
Posted by: john mont
» WHAT PART OF THE WORD IDIOT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!!...
Posted by: Annapurna1
» RE: get real john mont...
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: beware the berlin wall...
Posted by: Opinionator
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Posted by: amatullah on Apr 3, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The editing gets worse each week. How can Alternet be taken seriously if they can't get anyone to proofread?
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» RE: Good Morning Editors
Posted by: wildswan
» RE: Good Morning Editors
Posted by: slowbob4
» RE: Good Morning Editors
Posted by: pspinrad
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 3, 2008 6:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: fence or no fence...we need a sane immigration policy
Posted by: kamcallen
» RE: fence or no fence...we need a sane immigration policy
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: GollyGee on Apr 3, 2008 7:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wall is only one of many public-works projects of the National Corporate Welfare Program.
It won't keep anybody in or out, but it has do be done in a hurry so the contractors can rake in piles of dough before anyone can stop the project.
Down the road (under a new administration?) new contracts can then be let to dismantle the fence and "restore" the environment.
See why it's important to hurry? Every mile put up is a mile that will have to be taken down. Win/win.
The trouble with convict-labor is it's so expensive. We already have a working slave-labor system in place and it's running along just fine.
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 3, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't take care of native born citizens ....how are we supposed to rescue the rest of the world?
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» Yes, not a single country in the EU has that rule
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Anchor Babies Are A Myth
Posted by: sofla100
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Posted by: GollyGee on Apr 3, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Very, very few nations other than the U.S. grant citizenship that way. For most of the world a baby's citizenship is held to be the same as the father's or else that of both parents, and only recently, in some countries, it can be that of the mother. Where the child was born makes no difference to most governments.
A simple change in the law would do more to stem illegal immigration than row after row of fences, but where's the corporate profit in that?
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Apr 3, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At this point there must be the technology to patrol the border pretty effectively without trusting in a humungous wall that could still be breached, climbed over, etc.
Most illegal immigrants enter on legitimate visas anyway. Most of them don't cross the Mexican border illicitly, maybe around 40% do (an inexact statistic, obviously) so the popular perception of what needs to be done is skewed.
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Posted by: modeler on Apr 3, 2008 7:55 AM
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Apr 3, 2008 7:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I realize it's always fun to blame Bush for every bad thing you don't like. But of course Bush did absolutely nothing about illegal immigration for 7 years because his corporate masters didn't want him to. Now he's for this quickie wall to help McCain eke out a victory in the southwestern states where McCain's corporatist, do-nothing stand on illegal immigration isn't popular.
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Posted by: happyhermit on Apr 3, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's not just "Bush's policy."
supporters of Clinton and Obama have to get real about what they are and what they are not supporting. some people i talk to don't actually believe me when i mention that Obama isn't philosophically or legally opposed to the death penalty or that he wants to build a monstrous wall or expand the size of the US military or develop more nuclear power plants or that he's taken more money from wall street than any other candidate or that he doesn't actually plan on ending the war in Iraq. same goes with hillary's platform.
i'm not saying all obama/clinton supporters are so ill-informed, obviously, but there should be a stronger effort to use your support to sway the candidates in a more progressive direction, if that's where you'd like them to go (say, for example, opposing the border wall).
the problem with the hero-worshipping of obama that is so rampant among people of my age bracket (young ones) is that they have simply adopting the views that Obama has put forth in order to triangulate into a more viable position. i doubt obama actually opposes gay marriage and supports the border wall, but he has had to come up with reasons why these are good ideas, and many people who support him have then gone and adopted these contrived justifications.
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 3, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wildswan on Apr 3, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all humans living on the planet earth. Big corporations do not limit themselves to one country. That's why they are called multinational. They control the rest of us with borders (prison walls). They are just shoring up the prison walls. Too many escapees. We need a world without borders!
All the workers of the world have the same issues and it will only get better when we realize that we're basically in the same boat no matter which country we live in and we work together to take back our land and our lives and take control of our own destiny. Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be about?
I write about some of the things we can do on the grassroots level in my blog at http://goodwordswan.wildflowerstew.com
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» RE: Look Deeper
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: koulflo on Apr 3, 2008 9:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought all this qualified Real ID as one whopping, dangerous piece of law. But just today, additional horrors of Real ID were revealed: a coup at the border.
It was announced that section 102 of the Real ID Act provides the justification DHS Secry Chertoff says he needs for DHS to waive about 36 existing (mostly environmental and land management) laws enacted by Congress that pertain to DHS efforts to construct a border fence (18 foot steel and concrete) along the US-Mexico border from California to Texas.
As of today, the rule of law, and separation of powers no longer apply to the DHS’s SBInet efforts to construct a border industrial complex.
see more at
http://koulflo.wordpress.com
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 3, 2008 10:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A: it falls down just as fast.
If this is really the course we're going to take, at least do a good job.
jdfu!
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Posted by: vegan27 on Apr 3, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» vegan27 is racist. Against Americans.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» RE: illegal wall
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 3, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Is it me?
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: Dweeb on Apr 3, 2008 10:28 AM
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Posted by: jimmyaj on Apr 3, 2008 11:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody needs to tell the Bushies that Mother Nature doesn't stop for foolish ventures of mankind.
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Posted by: bitsfick on Apr 3, 2008 1:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The Germans did not cross the Maginot line
Posted by: AsteroidMiner
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Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 3, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Fence = Racism Against Hispanics, Immigrant Bashing and Foolishness
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: The Fence = Racism Against Hispanics, Immigrant Bashing and Foolishness
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: rickiey on Apr 3, 2008 6:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm also against illegal immigration. Yeah, I said it. And we will NEVER solve the immigration problem, until all of you quit screaming "RACIST!!! XENOPHOBE!!!!" every time someone points out that there is a difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant.
It's as moronic an argument as the "we should shoot em, cuz it's a crime" argument.
I am pro-immigration. I feel the second largest problem that America has, is that the legal immigration process is too slow.
That being said, there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way to do things. People who do things the wrong way, the illegal way, just because it is the easy way, are bad people. People who do things the RIGHT way, BECAUSE it is the right way, are good people.
Yes, I just said all illegal immigrants are bad people. I said it, because it is true.
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» not necessarily
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: not necessarily
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: I'm sick of being called a racist.
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: asjogren on Apr 3, 2008 10:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- Michael Chertoff, Republican, National Security Wall in Texas
- Dick Cheney, Republican, National Security Wall in California
- George W Bush, Republican, National Security Wall in New Mexico
- Thom Tancredo, Republican, National Security Wall in Arizona
We should remember these people for a long, long time, don't you think?
These people should be proud to lend their names to their accomplishment.
And when we refer to the entire National Security Wall, we should always preface it with "Republican"!
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» RE: Name wall sections after proponents
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Apr 4, 2008 9:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As with any fence, this one isn't a picket fence. It will not keep people out. When someone decides to move, a physical barrier will not stop them. This project has the earmarks of racism around it.
What will this fence accomplish? Why do we need it? Lord help this country.
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» RE: Don't Fence Me In
Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Don't Fence Me In
Posted by: Rapunzel
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Posted by: Sansego on Apr 4, 2008 11:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/hunt-border-fence/)
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Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 4, 2008 11:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
incentive to violate the immigration law. Clinton did something
about the employers. Bush did nothing for 7 years. Bush rigged
the bureaucracy to prevent honest employers from not hiring
illegals: Employers are supposed to check social security
numbers with the government to make sure that they are
legitimate. Bush made the process take 2 years. Employment
discrimination is illegal, so honest employers are forced to hire
illegals even if they don't want to. These are jobs that Americans
Would take for sure. The illegals know to quit just before their
SSNs are shown to be bogus. The SSN checking could be made
to happen instantly on line if Bush wanted it to happen. Bush
doesn't allow instant on-line checking of SSNs because Bush is
prejudiced against Americans.
The wall is purely for show and propaganda. There is no such
thing as a job Americans won't take, but many employers and
Bush want to pay illegally low wages and violate labor laws.
Violating labor laws is bad for your food supply. You get
manure mixed with your hamburger because of the illegals
working at the meat packing plant. The illegals can't enforce
labor laws, so the line goes too fast.
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» RE: To keep illegals out, you have to arrest Republicans.
Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: To keep illegals out, you have to arrest Republicans.
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Apr 9, 2008 9:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems he is watching TV shows all the time... and is lost to reality. The dumbing down has happened to him with a double whammy.... being stupid to begin with.
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Posted by: mindtrvlr on Apr 9, 2008 9:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Build a effective fence now.
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Apr 10, 2008 1:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most likely they were unable to make a living in their old country, were criminals , or had other reasons preventing them from making a living in "old Europe". (and some other countries in recent years.) Some had legitimate concerns, many did not! When they came here they did not apply for citizenship...! They just came and killed everything and everyone who did not agree with their sense of ownerhsip.
No wonder the number of criminals in this country has increased, since offsprings of inferiors often become inferior, still.
You may not like to hear this: pigs were raised to be gluttenous for a thousand years. Just imagine what happens to humans afer being raised in similar circumstances and for a similar purpose for a thousand years?
Or could it have happened already?
How can anyone in their right mind support this idiotic policy of a fence ?
How can people be so stupid to listen to what the Idiot in Charge has to say?
Where do you think the Idiot in charge and his idiot father and greedy grandfather and all the stupid dimwit wives with their "beautiful minds" (what a cynical joke) and all his other retarded relatives and attached scum came from?
Do you really think it was by "legitimatly" coming to this country? Give me a break...
and
let me laugh a very very long cynical laugh...
Thank god, God is in charge of it all. .... hahahahaha
(L0L)
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Posted by: maotiki on Apr 10, 2008 8:18 AM
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EDUARDO HERRERA
NEW YORK CITY
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Posted by: Annapurna1 on Apr 3, 2008 1:24 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
anyone that thinks that the crooked (and powerful and politically connected) employers that used to use them will simply pony up and pay american wages for illegal alien jobs is sadly mistaken...
those jobs are currently held by some 12 million illegals...however..the bosses already have a cheaper-labour alternative to replace those 12 million illegals if the tancredoes and hunters get their way (which appears to be the case) and the illegals were gone ..
its called the convict lease system..."convict" is prolly the wrong word..since much of this prison labour wont be convicted in a court-of-law but rather seized under the military commissions act...
in any case..we can safely expect a fivefold increase in prison populations in order to replace illegal immigrant labour...the current prison population of 2.5 million is equal to the city of chicago.. under this system..it would be larger than the whole state of illinois...
and should you become one of those 12 million americans ensnared in this new economy..you will be far worse off than any illegal immigrant is today...if your not..you will still have to compete against that workforce...and competing against the gulag means accepting the conditions of the gulag.. while the prison industry charges you thousands of dollars per inmate in taxes...
the soviets justified their own imperialism in the name of "liberating peoples oppressed by decadent regimes"...the soviets built a wall to "keep the enemy out"...(that should sound familiar)...and for much of its history..the soviets had an economy that revolved around prison slave labour...
so now my question is ..who won the cold war??...
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» RE: to the victors go the rot in the soul
Posted by: QCao009
» RE: beware the berlin wall...
Posted by: john mont
» WHAT PART OF THE WORD IDIOT DONT YOU UNDERSTAND!!...
Posted by: Annapurna1
» RE: get real john mont...
Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: beware the berlin wall...
Posted by: Opinionator
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Posted by: amatullah on Apr 3, 2008 5:12 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The editing gets worse each week. How can Alternet be taken seriously if they can't get anyone to proofread?
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» RE: Good Morning Editors
Posted by: wildswan
» RE: Good Morning Editors
Posted by: slowbob4
» RE: Good Morning Editors
Posted by: pspinrad
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 3, 2008 6:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: fence or no fence...we need a sane immigration policy
Posted by: kamcallen
» RE: fence or no fence...we need a sane immigration policy
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: GollyGee on Apr 3, 2008 7:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The wall is only one of many public-works projects of the National Corporate Welfare Program.
It won't keep anybody in or out, but it has do be done in a hurry so the contractors can rake in piles of dough before anyone can stop the project.
Down the road (under a new administration?) new contracts can then be let to dismantle the fence and "restore" the environment.
See why it's important to hurry? Every mile put up is a mile that will have to be taken down. Win/win.
The trouble with convict-labor is it's so expensive. We already have a working slave-labor system in place and it's running along just fine.
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Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Apr 3, 2008 7:06 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can't take care of native born citizens ....how are we supposed to rescue the rest of the world?
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» Yes, not a single country in the EU has that rule
Posted by: war_on_tara
» Anchor Babies Are A Myth
Posted by: sofla100
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Posted by: GollyGee on Apr 3, 2008 7:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Very, very few nations other than the U.S. grant citizenship that way. For most of the world a baby's citizenship is held to be the same as the father's or else that of both parents, and only recently, in some countries, it can be that of the mother. Where the child was born makes no difference to most governments.
A simple change in the law would do more to stem illegal immigration than row after row of fences, but where's the corporate profit in that?
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Apr 3, 2008 7:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At this point there must be the technology to patrol the border pretty effectively without trusting in a humungous wall that could still be breached, climbed over, etc.
Most illegal immigrants enter on legitimate visas anyway. Most of them don't cross the Mexican border illicitly, maybe around 40% do (an inexact statistic, obviously) so the popular perception of what needs to be done is skewed.
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Posted by: modeler on Apr 3, 2008 7:55 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: war_on_tara on Apr 3, 2008 7:56 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I realize it's always fun to blame Bush for every bad thing you don't like. But of course Bush did absolutely nothing about illegal immigration for 7 years because his corporate masters didn't want him to. Now he's for this quickie wall to help McCain eke out a victory in the southwestern states where McCain's corporatist, do-nothing stand on illegal immigration isn't popular.
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Posted by: happyhermit on Apr 3, 2008 8:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it's not just "Bush's policy."
supporters of Clinton and Obama have to get real about what they are and what they are not supporting. some people i talk to don't actually believe me when i mention that Obama isn't philosophically or legally opposed to the death penalty or that he wants to build a monstrous wall or expand the size of the US military or develop more nuclear power plants or that he's taken more money from wall street than any other candidate or that he doesn't actually plan on ending the war in Iraq. same goes with hillary's platform.
i'm not saying all obama/clinton supporters are so ill-informed, obviously, but there should be a stronger effort to use your support to sway the candidates in a more progressive direction, if that's where you'd like them to go (say, for example, opposing the border wall).
the problem with the hero-worshipping of obama that is so rampant among people of my age bracket (young ones) is that they have simply adopting the views that Obama has put forth in order to triangulate into a more viable position. i doubt obama actually opposes gay marriage and supports the border wall, but he has had to come up with reasons why these are good ideas, and many people who support him have then gone and adopted these contrived justifications.
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Posted by: Southern Gal on Apr 3, 2008 8:42 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wildswan on Apr 3, 2008 9:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are all humans living on the planet earth. Big corporations do not limit themselves to one country. That's why they are called multinational. They control the rest of us with borders (prison walls). They are just shoring up the prison walls. Too many escapees. We need a world without borders!
All the workers of the world have the same issues and it will only get better when we realize that we're basically in the same boat no matter which country we live in and we work together to take back our land and our lives and take control of our own destiny. Isn't that what democracy is supposed to be about?
I write about some of the things we can do on the grassroots level in my blog at http://goodwordswan.wildflowerstew.com
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» RE: Look Deeper
Posted by: CatDad
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Posted by: koulflo on Apr 3, 2008 9:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought all this qualified Real ID as one whopping, dangerous piece of law. But just today, additional horrors of Real ID were revealed: a coup at the border.
It was announced that section 102 of the Real ID Act provides the justification DHS Secry Chertoff says he needs for DHS to waive about 36 existing (mostly environmental and land management) laws enacted by Congress that pertain to DHS efforts to construct a border fence (18 foot steel and concrete) along the US-Mexico border from California to Texas.
As of today, the rule of law, and separation of powers no longer apply to the DHS’s SBInet efforts to construct a border industrial complex.
see more at
http://koulflo.wordpress.com
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Posted by: hurricane hugo on Apr 3, 2008 10:08 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A: it falls down just as fast.
If this is really the course we're going to take, at least do a good job.
jdfu!
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Posted by: vegan27 on Apr 3, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» vegan27 is racist. Against Americans.
Posted by: AsteroidMiner
» RE: illegal wall
Posted by: djnoll
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 3, 2008 10:26 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Is it me?
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: Dweeb on Apr 3, 2008 10:28 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jimmyaj on Apr 3, 2008 11:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Somebody needs to tell the Bushies that Mother Nature doesn't stop for foolish ventures of mankind.
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Posted by: bitsfick on Apr 3, 2008 1:27 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» The Germans did not cross the Maginot line
Posted by: AsteroidMiner
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Posted by: sofla100 on Apr 3, 2008 3:50 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: The Fence = Racism Against Hispanics, Immigrant Bashing and Foolishness
Posted by: sofla100
» RE: The Fence = Racism Against Hispanics, Immigrant Bashing and Foolishness
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: rickiey on Apr 3, 2008 6:00 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm also against illegal immigration. Yeah, I said it. And we will NEVER solve the immigration problem, until all of you quit screaming "RACIST!!! XENOPHOBE!!!!" every time someone points out that there is a difference between a legal immigrant and an illegal immigrant.
It's as moronic an argument as the "we should shoot em, cuz it's a crime" argument.
I am pro-immigration. I feel the second largest problem that America has, is that the legal immigration process is too slow.
That being said, there is a right way to do things, and a wrong way to do things. People who do things the wrong way, the illegal way, just because it is the easy way, are bad people. People who do things the RIGHT way, BECAUSE it is the right way, are good people.
Yes, I just said all illegal immigrants are bad people. I said it, because it is true.
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» not necessarily
Posted by: abbadon2007
» RE: not necessarily
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: I'm sick of being called a racist.
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: asjogren on Apr 3, 2008 10:14 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
- Michael Chertoff, Republican, National Security Wall in Texas
- Dick Cheney, Republican, National Security Wall in California
- George W Bush, Republican, National Security Wall in New Mexico
- Thom Tancredo, Republican, National Security Wall in Arizona
We should remember these people for a long, long time, don't you think?
These people should be proud to lend their names to their accomplishment.
And when we refer to the entire National Security Wall, we should always preface it with "Republican"!
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» RE: Name wall sections after proponents
Posted by: Cooltruth
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Posted by: penobscotdziekuje@yahoo.com on Apr 4, 2008 9:47 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As with any fence, this one isn't a picket fence. It will not keep people out. When someone decides to move, a physical barrier will not stop them. This project has the earmarks of racism around it.
What will this fence accomplish? Why do we need it? Lord help this country.
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» RE: Don't Fence Me In
Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: Don't Fence Me In
Posted by: Rapunzel
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Posted by: Sansego on Apr 4, 2008 11:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
(http://thinkprogress.org/2008/02/19/hunt-border-fence/)
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Posted by: AsteroidMiner on Apr 4, 2008 11:20 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
incentive to violate the immigration law. Clinton did something
about the employers. Bush did nothing for 7 years. Bush rigged
the bureaucracy to prevent honest employers from not hiring
illegals: Employers are supposed to check social security
numbers with the government to make sure that they are
legitimate. Bush made the process take 2 years. Employment
discrimination is illegal, so honest employers are forced to hire
illegals even if they don't want to. These are jobs that Americans
Would take for sure. The illegals know to quit just before their
SSNs are shown to be bogus. The SSN checking could be made
to happen instantly on line if Bush wanted it to happen. Bush
doesn't allow instant on-line checking of SSNs because Bush is
prejudiced against Americans.
The wall is purely for show and propaganda. There is no such
thing as a job Americans won't take, but many employers and
Bush want to pay illegally low wages and violate labor laws.
Violating labor laws is bad for your food supply. You get
manure mixed with your hamburger because of the illegals
working at the meat packing plant. The illegals can't enforce
labor laws, so the line goes too fast.
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» RE: To keep illegals out, you have to arrest Republicans.
Posted by: Cooltruth
» RE: To keep illegals out, you have to arrest Republicans.
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Apr 9, 2008 9:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems he is watching TV shows all the time... and is lost to reality. The dumbing down has happened to him with a double whammy.... being stupid to begin with.
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Posted by: mindtrvlr on Apr 9, 2008 9:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Build a effective fence now.
Posted by: blitzmesser
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Posted by: blitzmesser on Apr 10, 2008 1:08 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most likely they were unable to make a living in their old country, were criminals , or had other reasons preventing them from making a living in "old Europe". (and some other countries in recent years.) Some had legitimate concerns, many did not! When they came here they did not apply for citizenship...! They just came and killed everything and everyone who did not agree with their sense of ownerhsip.
No wonder the number of criminals in this country has increased, since offsprings of inferiors often become inferior, still.
You may not like to hear this: pigs were raised to be gluttenous for a thousand years. Just imagine what happens to humans afer being raised in similar circumstances and for a similar purpose for a thousand years?
Or could it have happened already?
How can anyone in their right mind support this idiotic policy of a fence ?
How can people be so stupid to listen to what the Idiot in Charge has to say?
Where do you think the Idiot in charge and his idiot father and greedy grandfather and all the stupid dimwit wives with their "beautiful minds" (what a cynical joke) and all his other retarded relatives and attached scum came from?
Do you really think it was by "legitimatly" coming to this country? Give me a break...
and
let me laugh a very very long cynical laugh...
Thank god, God is in charge of it all. .... hahahahaha
(L0L)
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Posted by: maotiki on Apr 10, 2008 8:18 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
EDUARDO HERRERA
NEW YORK CITY
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