What about the American Middle Class Families who's children would like the luxury of a higher education, or even Lower Income American Families for that matter?

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College for immigrants? I think Americans come first, immigrants come last, if at all, as they are not even citizens.

This is a perfect example of liberals ignoring Americans, proposing policies out of touch with America for lord know what else.

I suspect the far left nuts will be lining up in front of the whitehouse when Obama gets elected with a crazy idea list..only to be disappointed when common sense prevails.

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I am as progressive as they come, and I think this is a terrible idea. Citizens should come first. Don't paint everyone with your Bush Brush. Now shall we discuss the WAR, the national debt, our standing in the world, and hundreds of other Bushit ideas that you seem to blame on "liberals"?

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College for illegal aliens...what a great idea! Or maybe, just maybe we could spend that money on people who are actually Americans?!?! There are schools in Mexico. Mexicans need to stay home and educate themselves and fix their own country rather than milking ours.

dboy

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This article is scant on details.

Is the Dream Act advocating for allowing illegal immigrants to apply for grants and student loans for higher education? If so, I say absolutely not.

If it advocates allowing illegal immigrants to attend college on their own or their parent's dime, certainly they should be allowed to attain higher education.

It is said that this is a moral issue, and it is, for what could be more immoral than putting illegal immigrants before American citizens?!

Why do we have an immigration problem in the first place?

Because of policies like the Dream Act.
By fullfilling their "dreams", we suffer nightmares.

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I am a 'liberal' thinker and have been all my life, much to the chagrin of my very 'conservative' family...I believe in equality and justice but the view being presented here cannot be endorsed. It seems the wave of 'political correctness' has flooded the minds of the well intentioned. I believe everyone who wrote in dissent to this article is as much a progressive thinker as I...but, we recognize that this kind of embrace does not promote equality...instead it singles out immigrants (foreigners) to receive government assistance for higher education. This country is crumbling at our feet, I can barely make ends meet, I have no decent health insurance, no savings and was unable to afford to send my two children to college...the public schools they attended were inadequate and they along with the majority of their peers don't seem to know much about anything...they're not interested plus they all have a sense of entitlement...What have we done? And now the bright idea is to educate illegal immigrants?! ...no doubt on our dime?! This is going too far!

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don't blame liberals for this stupidity.

blame the people i call pseudo-liberals--the ignorant in their overpriced suburban ghettos who think all other americans have the same opportunities they had. who are oblivious to the working poor. who think racial discrimination no longer exists.

however, if illegal aliens' college tuition would be paid by the wealthy parents whose children are given legacy positions in the ivy league colleges and tuition scholarships, i might actually favor this idea. that plan would leave government scholarship money available to the hard-working citizens of this country.

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Why is there such a push to accommodate the children of illegal immigrants? Is this suppose to grant us super liberal status or what? There is no reason why we should even be talking about these children or the children of any other country as long as we have struggling children of our own. Since when have we become the cure for all of the world's problems? We've got an ungodly amount of our tax money going out each and every year to a multitude of countries who aren't even trying to better their citizens' condition. Now were expected to bring them here to assist them at the expense of our own? Whose crazy idea is this anyway? Is there a name we can attach to this insanity so we can at least get him or her out of office NOW?

All were doing by accepting these children into our school system is accommodating the rich elite of Mexico who will continue to exploit their own citizens and "outsource" their problems. This is so ridiculous that we have had two successive Mexican presidents coming here to "insure" that their citizens are treated properly, both legal and illegal, while they themselves escape criticism entirely for their part in creating this crisis. In what other country of the world is this happening?
If the churches are so keen on doing this they can also foot the bill, but even then, we'd still have the problem of the illegal status and that's real not imagined!
The argument that some of these illegal people pay taxes is no argument at all. They shouldn't pay taxes as they shouldn't be here in the first place. There's a principle in law that holds that anything following an illegal act must itself be illegal, i.e., if one is here illegally, then driving in this country is also illegal, so is working, applying for schools, applying for assistance for housing or food etc..
There's a well established immigration program and it accommodates more of the world's people than any other country; there's no reason why American citizens should have to tolerate this illegal intrusion of immigrants, primarily from Mexico. And all the while the Mexican elite is laughing all the way to the bank and let's not kid ourselves, Mexico is a very rich country with a very well heeled elite class.
Whatever problems are caused by American corporations on the working class of Mexico and there are some, they're being allowed and encouraged by Mexico's elite class, just as the elite class dominates in our own country. Mexico must rid itself of this elite class just as we must. No nation's problems have ever been solved by its citizens running away to another country, either legally or illegally.

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The point is that undocumented kids cannot apply for scholarships, grants or loans--no matter how hard they work.

I know a woman who teaches high school in Central L.A. It breaks her heart to see very bright, very hard-workign kids realize, by junior year, that they're on a dead-end road. They can get all A's, but they're not going anywhere.

In most cases these kids did not choose to come to this country illegally. Their parents made that choice. Now that they are here, we should give them the same opportunities that everyone else has--to work hard, and to compete for the scholarships and loans that would let them go to college.

Does this mean that for every undocoumented student who gets into college, one native-born working-class American will be denied his chance? Not necessarily. There is no reason that we cannot add to the funds available for scholarships for working class and lower-middle class kids.

That is what we should be doing anyway. Ever since 1980 (the Reagan administration) money has been shiphoned out of scholarship programs for the neediest kids and put into into low-interest loan programs for the affluent parents of upper-middle-class and upper-class kids.

We need more scholarships based on need and merit.

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What about the VETS,who lose thier college moneis because they are injuried in "the war" and there for can not finish thier contract?

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Death to Fascists

Join the International Socialist Revolution

FREE AMERICA

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These children, along with the children of native born Americans, are left begging for scraps. At least 1/2 of the federal USA budget now goes for wars and the national security state. Iraq alone is estimated to ultimately cost America into the trillions of dollars. We need to bring our soldiers home and close the bases, and take care of our own. Then, we would have plenty of money. Otherwise, we are just fighting over scraps.

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We need to REDUCE the number of people going to college. Most are wasting money and time studying things they can just as well read about in a library. College should be determined on one thing only: meritorious scholarship ability. Not sports advertising money; not rich parents; not race. Base the criteria simply on someone's ability to excel scholastically. If immigrants are smarter than domestics, let them take the place of Buffy or Biff. Smart people in college benefit the country and world. Stupid/drunk/rich people in college are a burden, as are the stadiums, the traffic, the crimes, and the resulting increase in 'advertising executives'.

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I have had this discussion in my classroom. Even my most progressive students rile at the thought. I don't judge them, they are facing huge student loans. It is hard to feel compassion when one is going to be buried so deeply in dept.

I think it all comes down to redistributing wealth. There is way too much concentration at the top. If it was redistributed in a just way, there would be plenty of money for education and health care. It is time for the people to take back their power. People should take that same rage they are directing at the undocumented and aim it exactly where it belongs - the power-elite at the top who milk the system for their benefit at the expense of the rest. We can only have a fair world when they go! They have lied, cheated, manipulated through the media, murdered and turned humanity against each other. THEY are the only ones really deserving of such scorn. And they have no moral right to keep the obscene amount of wealth under their control. It should be redistributed a bit for the benefit of all humanity.

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Here in California 4000 teachers have been laid off and schools are closing, then proposals to close 48 of California’s state parks and take lifeguards away from 16 state beaches is in the works. 14-16 billion dollars in debt. Medical facilities are faltering due to assistance to undocumented people. And GUESS WHAT I worked harder than any undocumented worker raising 3 kids and have yet to collect a fucking dime from any govt agency. This idea only panders to rich peoples slaves kids.

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While I sympathize with the plight of Hispanic high schoolers whose parents are illegal aliens, there simply in't enough money to help American kids get through through college, much less undocumented students.

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I wont go as far as to say something in opposition to this, but maybe focusing first on hard working Americans that can't afford college would be a good idea?

How about poor people that graduate from high school and can't read or do basic math?

Liberals can test people's patience, I will say that. It's funny how white Right-Wing people have this crazy idea that liberals don't care about them.

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Okay, it seems like everyone is kind of missing the point of the Dream Act. It's not to give illegal immigrant kids a FREE college education...it's just to allow them to use college education, which they would pay for themselves, as a path to citizenship. The law specifies that they would be charged in-state tuition to make it economically feasible - at most schools, out-of-state tuition is 3 times higher than in-state tuition. Anyway, the bill would not allow them to apply for grants, although they would be allowed to apply for student loans or work study aid. So they'd be putting themselves through school and would either have to pay tuition (up front or later through loans) or work for their tuition.

See here.

So...before we all freak out about how Americans can't afford college so how can we "give it" to illegals...think about it. This is simply allowing illegal children who do well in school to attend public colleges (a right they have in some states but not all), but it won't allow them to get Pell Grants or anything like that (so they won't be using public funds to pay for their education). They can then use this education to help them gain citizenship.

The reasoning behind the law is that there are kids who were brought here as young children by their parents and have lived here their entire lives. In many states those kids have no path to citizenship, which strikes some people as unfair since a 3-year-old can't exactly refuse to come over with his or her family, but if they grow up here and become "Americanized," they have no path to citizenship independent of their parents in most states.

What this law allows for is for people who were brought here as children to have a path to citizenship, which they don't currently have. They would have six years to get an associate's or bachelor's degree, and would need to have a clean criminal record and (I believe) a job, and then they could apply for citizenship.

Personally, I'm sympathetic to people who were brought here as young kids. It seems unfair to not allow them a path to citizenship when it wasn't their decision to come over in the first place but they've spent their entire lives here. But let's get a little perspective here - this law would not provide free education to illegals. They'd still have to scramble to find tuition money and everything, just like American kids...and would actually have fewer resources in terms of grants. But it would allow them a path out of the "no-man's" land they currently live in.

Again...it gives them the opportunity to get a college education. It does not give them a free or publicly-funded education.

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Immigration is a concept as obsolete as steam locomotives or telegraph wires. The original concept was driven by GREED, the prospect of easy money possible by the brutal expolitation of those from foreign lands. Their "rights" were the furthest thing on the minds of the robber barons, who regarded immigrants as little more than cattle. This mind set continues to this day, otherwise, illegal immigration wouldn't be nearly as big a problem as it is. That being said, my opinion on this matter is that we should immediately halt ALL immigration into our country for a set period at first, and extending that period as needed. A moratorium on immigration could be lifted at such a time as the needs of ALL our native-born citizens are met. That may be ten years from now, or, more likely, NEVER. It should be apparent to most of us by now that we ALREADY have far too many people here for our own good. What may not be so apparent is that population control here and worldwide is the ONLY way to head off a major disaster, or maybe even our own extinction.

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...But mass illegal, yes ILLEGAL immigration is a scam run on working class, native-born and legal immigrant Americans to drive down wages. Our problem is more illegal employer, but it's still a problem. I'm far from the only liberal/progressive who has big problems with the idea that by committing an illegal act and getting away with it long enough, it becomes ok and legal. I'm especially outraged by pregnant women from other countries who come here illegally to pop out an American citizen so they can stay and bring more of their family here. This is abuse of the spirit of the Constitution and should not be allowed. You should not be allowed to benefit from from an illegal act - namely getting to stay because you came here illegally to give birth, knowing that that child would be considered an American citizen. We need to close the "Anchor Baby" loophole, not give these spawns scholarships. We can't sustain the population we have, let alone all who come here by hook and crook.

People, you are being led down a path to environmental ruin and destruction by a combination of greedy corporations and well-meaning, but misguided liberals. This idea is an outrage I will not stand for, but probably cannot stop, due to the perceived growing influence of the Hispanic community in electoral politics (which in and of itself is a self-fulfilling feedback loop).

I agree with the others (surprisingly many here, you really hit a nerve) who say, take care of those born or legally here. And, oh by the way, SEND THE OTHERS BACK. I await your flaming and troll-rating.

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I'm especially concerned, because I'm a middle class sorta guy. Two kids, both smart, and my wife is a teacher, which should give you an idea of my income.

Quite frankly, I still haven't figured out where I'm going to get the rest of the money to pay for MY kid's college.

Once the problems of middle classers like myself, are solved, then yes, it will make sense to focus on immigrants. But not until then.

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A college education doesn't give the student anything more than a slightly higher chance of making more money than a high school graduate. And it really is only slightly higher. I worked with a girl who had a bachelors degree in American Studies. We were both in a deli making less than $10/hour. She had to live with her parents just to pay off the interest on her student loans.

If illegal immigrants want to waste four years of thier lives sitting in a classroom and taking notes about a world they could be expeiriencing for themselves, I say go for it. In fact, one of them can have my seat. All college gives you in the end is an inflated sense of self, and a shit load of student loans to pay off. It certainly doesn't give one an education, thats for damn sure.

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It seems like there are some misconceptions out there about the DREAM Act and what it is and is not intended to do. None of these students is asking for a free ride. They will have to pay to go to college just like any other American student will have to pay. The DREAM Act makes them eligible for federal loans. DREAMers will have to complete 2 years of higher education, 2 years of or military service before even being considered for any type of permanent status. These children aren't going anywhere. They aren't going to their "country of origin" they were brought here as children by their parents. They were brought up in US schools, in US neighborhoods and played with US citizens. The only thing that keeps them from being American is their birth certificate. We're talking about the future of America, an educated workforce made up of people all over the world. We should not punish children for the transgressions of their parents.

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I am disappointed to see so many otherwise intelligent and well-meaning people commenting out of ignorance and fear on this post. Education is not, and has never been, a zero-sum game.

There are a few points I would ask all of you to bear in mind before reacting viscerally on this issue.

1. The "crime" of crossing a border into the US without documentation is a misdemeanor. That crime ceases to be valid once the border is actually crossed.

2. The act of BEING in the US without documentation is a CIVIL PENALTY.

3. Children should NEVER be held responsible for lawbreaking by their parents, regardless of where they were born.

4. Culture is NOT GENETIC. If a child is brought here as an infant, and has only ever known this nation, they are culturally AMERICAN. Too many of you respond to this as if these children have a nation to which to "return," when, in fact, they do not.

5. The vast majority of undocumented immigrants pay taxes. Unless they live in tents (unlikely) they also rent apartments, contributing to property taxes paid by landlords, which in turn pay for public schools. Without their cheap labor, most of the goods and services ALL OF YOU utilize daily would be MUCH MORE EXPENSIVE. You have been duped by the rightwing noise machine into scapegoating a population that generally lives scarcely above the level of slaves.

6. The legislation in question pertains to granting in-state tuition at PUBLIC UNIVERSITIES to children raised in the United States by working parents WHO PAY TAXES. That you could in good conscience complain about this is not only stunning, it is disgusting.

7. What many of you are ignorantly posing here - keeping culturally American poor kids from the right to in-state tuition - is based in an incorrect fear that by allowing certain kids an education you somehow must DISallow it for others. Again and again here I see comments implying or outright saying that by allowing culturally American kids, who had no say in their parents' choice to commit a MISDEMEANOR years ago, somehow this will push "middle class American kids" out of college. Think about this, people. How silly can you be? Do you want children who have grown up in the US, with parents who have paid taxes here, to be UNEDUCATED? Is that GOOD for everyone else? Do you think that by denying in-state tuition to these children that they will suddenly pack up and move to a nation THEY HAVE NEVER KNOWN? Get real. And grow a conscience.

8. By the twisted logic of many of these fearful posts, we should deny rights to all children whose parents commit misdemeanors. Did your dad sell pot and go to jail for it when you were five? No college for you, according to this illogical argument - you are now "illegal," just like your dad. Did your mom get drunk and flash her breasts at a parade? No college for you, either; you, too, are now illegal. Since when have progressives of any stripe been a group that BLAMES children for the sins (perceived and legitimate) of their parents? Which leads me to my final point:

9. I would guess that most of the so-called liberal commentators on this board are not so at all. Rather, they are right-wing xenophobes, lurking about the "Internets," looking for any landing pad for their malicious brand of fear and hate. Last time I checked, progressives were smart, moral, and capable of complex thought.

The comments I see here indicate none of that.

One more thing: To those of you equating "immigrant" with "Hispanic" - get a clue. The vast majority of Hispanics in the US are NOT immigrants. IN other words, not all immigrants are Hispanic, and not all Hispanics are immigrants. These are not synonyms. Never have been, never will be.

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Just to clarify, the DREAM Act offers no assistance in attending college for these kids other than loans (which must be re-paid) and work study (which must be earned like any other job). If the DREAM act passes it will not give DREAMers grants or even in-state tuition (which is determined by the states)

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Most of the people in here, like most so called "Americans," are too damned ignorant to look at the facts.

It's not about facts. It's about white people's lives that are so screwed that they'll be god damned if they let an illegal (lol) waltz in here and do better than them.

And you thought football was the reason the rest of the world thinks "Americans" are ignorant.

Alternet, like Democratic Underground, provides a platform for the so called progressives to let their true feelings on race/ethnicity be known.

These people are no different than Save Our State, Minutemen, John Tanton, FAIR and on and on and on.

Whether on the left or on the right, ignorant white trash is ignorant white trash.

PS. Tell Skinner (D/U Board) he can kiss my brown MEXICAN ASS.

I've got to go. I've got to go give a dollar to a whiteboy tweeker dumpster diver.

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If you read any alternet article on immigration and or race you know it attracts the crazies from the pseudo KKK sites. Why don't you learn more about the DREAM Act and meet some of these kids over at www.dreamact.info/forum. Ask questions and they will respond. I'm a liberal but I'm not an angry liberal. I read and research things rather than make snap judgments.

We've invested so much in these kids and if they can someone graduate college without help from the government,then legalize them. The DREAM isn't helping them pay for college other than loans (which must be re-paid) and work study (which must be earned like any other job). No grants or in-state (that's left up to the states to decide if they want to give it or not).

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don't let the illegal immigration smokescreen fool you. The real threat is the systematic dismantling of schools all across the country, and the shift from public education (where American schools were once the envy of the rest of the world) to privatized, economically segregated schools.

We should be looking at our own kids right now, when far too many high school graduates aren't even functionally literate. Let's fix our infrastructure and reinvest in social programs that will allow Americans to become intelligent, literate, prosperous, and free. Then, once we've reclaimed our country from the wealthy who regard it as their own personal fief, we can extend a helping hand to our neighbors.

If you are really concerned about education, you should:
1. Demand that our gov't end the disastrous and expensive war in Iraq, and give our veterans the support (education, housing, healthcare) they deserve and are entitled to.
2. Demand oversight and regulation in financial markets, and stop using tax dollars to bail out the speculators and profiteers.
3. Demand an end to predatory lending practices that jeopardize families, and enforce real penalties on usurious lenders.
4. Demand that corporations pay fair taxes, receive tax incentives to keep jobs at home and receive penalties for moving them overseas.
5. Demand that our (reclaimed) tax dollars be used to support national infrastructure, including schools.
6. Demand stricter standards for teachers, and provide incentives for good teachers.
7. Demand that schools focus on practical teaching instead of standardized tests.

It's up to us to stop the thieves. No one is going to do it for us. If you are really concerned about the future of this country and your children, do something about it. I am.

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The "white middle class" is fighting the wrong people. Don't look sideways. Look up

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Thanks for supporting the Dreamers!

Progress is not not a zero sum game. We can and should pursue an education/opportunity system that is open to the many.

We enrich our country and ourselves as we pursue not only the enforcement of existing law but also when we pursue fairness and justice.

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when Mexico starts paying for college educations for American kids.

And they agree to treat illegal aliens in their country the same as the expect the U.S. to do for their illegals in this country.

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As the economy gets worse, and more proles and bougies are out of work, sympathy for these immigrants is going to decline more and more.

The problem I'm noticing in Los Angeles, is that many newcomers here don't even have the studiousness to even finish high-school, so it doesn't really matter anyway.

If you're a good student, you should be able to go to college no matter who you are.

If a 12 million white Canadians were illegal here, the issue would be the same.

America is not as hard on other races as we think. What if these people were in Europe?

Do you think a black man would have gotten as far as Obama in European politics?

This pro-illegal immigrant position that alternet keeps taking is really unreasonable. We are the most permissive country in the world when it comes to illegal immigration.

Alternet's stance is irrational, untenable, and semi-deluded.

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I toured the country, try the East coast, last summer and I gotta tell you I came across very few Mexicans, illegal and not. What you say?

Yes, I did see some illegal Mexicans as I traveled, but the majority of those illegals constituted those of Central American ancestry. Statistically speaking, Mexican Americans (yes you guys (white) always confuse us as illegals even though some of us have families that were here generations before "you" got here) have chosen to stay in the southwest states instead of migrating to jobs up north.

The "Mexicans" that you see up north are, for the most part, not illegal Mexicans, but the central American vermin who pose as us, they even open restaurants touting Mexican cuisine. I can't stand the fact that they come in under the guise of being Mexican, I suppose to get more perks? get these vermin out of this country!

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Hello,
First, I would like to thank Alternet for running this story and also the kind people on these boards that are speaking in favor of the DREAM Act. It means a lot to us to have your support.
For the kind people that are not convinced and / against the DREAM Act, I ask that you take time to read about the legislation and actually talk to the students that the legislation would benefit over at DreamAct.info or even the students blogging for the Dream Act at adreamdeferred.org

You can read my blog and story here:
http://bravenewfilms.org/profiles/13026-dreamactivist

Peace.

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A very fine line.

However, there is still a line.

Don't get me wrong; I'm not a right wing xenophobe. I'm a big fan of immigration. I think the most contradictory position imaginable is being a big fan of America, and not being a big fan of immigration. I currently think one of the top three problems that the US has, is that the immigration process is too slow. It needs rectified, not for the good of immigrants, but for the good of America.

But, as with everything else in life, there is a reward for doing things the right way. And there should be. Good people do things the right way. Legal immigration to America is the right way, even though the process is slow right now. That is what good people do. Illegal immigration is the wrong way. It is the shortcut. It is what bad people do.

We as a country should encourage the good, and make it easier and quicker. But we should also discourage the bad. We can't discourage the bad by making it harder and more time-consuming (although they try), so we should discourage the bad by making it less rewarding.

Now I'm sure half of you who have read this are thinking "what, what a thinly disguised racist!". YOu are wrong, and arrogantly presumptious to think that way. I couldn't care less what race someone who immigrates happens to be. I only care that the did it right; legally.

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Republicans deal in fantasy; Democrats (should) deal in reality.

It is a fantasy to believe that 12 million people in the country illegally are going to leave. Therefore, any child we are denying of giving access to education is a person who will live their entire life in the U.S. Since a better educated society is better than a less educated society, we are only hurting ourselves by denying education to these children.

Let's end illegal immigration by making legal immigration an option for more of the people who are coming. And let's abandon the fantasy that we are going to get rid of all or most of the folks who are already here. With the immigration ideologues out of the way, the rest of us can solve this problem.

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First, DREAM is not about giving anyone a free ride. It's about having access to go to college or sign up for the military. If the first, still have to figure out how to pay for it, just like everyone else. And just like everyone else, still have to have the grades to get in. So it's not about giving these kids a better deal than what citizens have.

Second, whether it is the state of our education system or the economy, or the myriad other things that have come up here -- if anyone thinks we'll solve those issues by railing against immigrants (yeah, IMMIGRANTS, because that so-called distinction between legal and illegal has been crossed a LONG time ago), then we need a major reality check. C'mon -- pointing the finger at immigration for all our ills is too simplistic a solution, why are people buying it?

Third, we've been down this road before. Blame the new kid on the block, take out your frustrations and woes and all those things you feel impotent about on... the most vulnerable and poor among us? huh? May bring you momentary relief, but when you wake up, even if you shut down immigration, those problems will still be there.

This issue is too complex for knee-jerk reactions. If a more thoughtful approach is applied to most other things discussed on these pages, then maybe, just maybe, it's time to do that with this issue as well.

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When the article mentions 'immigrants', is it referring to people who are here legally (or are new citizens of this country) or is the article talking about "undocumented workers" (or other similar euphemisms for illegal aliens) .

If it's the latter, it's not only gross distortion of the word 'immigrant' but also a sleazy one. It paints those that see a problem with the waves of incoming illegal workers as being xenophobic or racist. No country in the world would sit idly by and allow such an influx of uncontrolled illegal immigration.

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The problem is the extremists have hijacked the immigration control agenda. The main advocates are not anti-illegal immigration, but anti-immigration. Immigration happens.

We should acknowledge that and regulate it. But the folks who control the agenda are trying to supress it below any realistic level.

If we get the immigration hawks out of the way, Americans can live up to our ideals and be a welcoming society, on our terms, so that it strengthens society, not weakens it.

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This article is completely full of crap. We are not talking about immigrants here but illegal aliens. Nor are these people your talking about "undocumented immigrants", once again the proper term is illegal aliens. It's not like they just forgot to sign the registry at the hiking trail head in a national forest.

They should be deported not funded. H1-B type programs need to be closed down as well. Why get an education if you are a citizen and no work exists because corporations dishonestly pump up job requirements to make sure you can't meet them so that they can hire a foreigner who is less skilled at a cheaper wage.

We also need stiff PRISON SENTENCES for those who hire illegal aliens instead of petty fines like some kind of speeding infraction.

Uncontrolled illegal immigration is the corporate agenda to help drive down wages in the US, period. When you defend it you reveal yourself for the corporate suck-up that you are. Shame.

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In my opinion we need to be moving policy in the OPPOSITE direction as that expressed in the article, and from the general slant of the comments here, it seems most Alternet'ers agree. We need tighter restrictions on immigration, we need to REPEAL the law that makes the children of illegals into legit US citizens (it's a horrible horrible law), and we need to encourage people to stay in their home countries, fix their own problems, and invest at home. The US is no longer a frontier country, and our laws need to change to reflect that.

We are now a developed country with serious threats from abroad. We have the right and the duty to know or find out who someone is when they cross into US territory. Illegal immigration (especially from illegal Mexicans) has already destroyed LA. They have brought their gangs, their drugs, and their violence along with them, which we are paying for. The MS-13 gang is in the US because of illegal immigration. A bit harsher way to put it is..look what the Mexicans have done with their own country and then try to convince me that America needs that type of immigrant.

And yes I am certainly aware that Mexicans are not the only problem. The UK is a disaster right now because of Muslim immigrants, as are Australia, Netherlands, France... hope you get my point. We don't need those problems. We don't want to experience the bombings that London has had to put up with. We don't need immigrants who refuse to assimilate. And we don't need immigrants who break the law. If they are willing to break the law to get here, then they are likely to be a security risk. And not only do they want to break into this country, now by reading this article you can tell they want to milk this country. What exactly have they done to deserve drivers licenses, college educations, and free medical services?

Security risk: The UK and Spain get bombed because they have a Muslim immigrant population. Why should Americans take that same risk? We've ALREADY seen the results. If we start having bombings in the US, the feds will have no choice but to turn most large cities into martial-law compounds. Then we'd see HUGE general economic decline. Picture most US cities as similar to what Detroit looks like right now...Detroit is Baghdad. That's what will happen if we start suffering from domestic terror strikes. *Americans* have worked hard for what we have, and it would be crazy to just surrender that to bands of savages.

Remember that it IS possible to be a progressive and still have common sense. It is possible to be NICE, but still protect the US. We can be nice by allowing LEGAL immigration, from various parts of the world with different numbers of immigrants allowed per country, done in a logical way, with background checks. But when you start allowing illegal immigration then people start questioning why to have a border AT ALL, and then you get results that progressives worry about. You end up with NAFTA, north american union, the Amero, open borders, and regional (and eventually world) government. Some countries have much to gain from blurred/absent borders (mexico) and other countries would lose badly (US).

dboy

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This reaction of insulting all Americans whose views on immigration are not essentially that we should let people to come into the country illegally in untold numbers and then offer them every single opportunity American citizens receive, through new laws if necessary, -if not MORE- is not going to help their cause at all.
If anything pro-immigrant people taking this route will alienate people that would potentially be more sympathetic and they'll end up finding people more like what they initially unfairly and hatefully labeled them as.

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If you, an American citizen wants to go to Mexico to live, even if your getting a Social Security Check, or Pension check, don't try to get a JOB! You, and the employer, will go directly to jail!!

We alredy have highly qualified American students, paying to go to Medical Schools in Foreign countries, becuse we have so many Foreign Students in OURS, they can't get in!!!

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As I’ve been explaining above to no comment or reaction from the Dream Act supporters who continue to explain to those of us who disagree with them that this is “not a zero sum game” and that the Dream Act “is not about free college, it’s about giving children of immigrants access to loans,” yes, this act most certainly WOULD interfere with American students’ ability to receive college funding.

If you've been paying attention, several of the LARGEST COLLEGE LENDERSHAVE BACKED OUT OF THE STUDENT LOAN BUSINESS, even the federally guaranteed student loan programs, since the foreclosure/mortgage fracas has ensued.

I'm sorry--in more ways than one--to point out that there IS absolutely a finite amount of grant, loan, and scholarship money. For those of you claiming that guaranteeing loans for immigrants does not interfere with American students who need to borrow, you are simply wrong.

This point is separate from my own ideology, which is that anyone who is capable of doing college-level work, agrees to benefit the community with that work, and is willing to commit to DOING the work should be able to take a shot at a college degree. However, as there is a finite amount of money available under our current system and even the writer of this article (as well as the folks who've written in favor of free or subsidized immigrant access) does not suggest a way to make college universally available to all qualified applicants, I don't see why it's inherently racist or vile to suggest that the limited amount of American college funding for attending American colleges should go to American students.

Then, once our government is willing to commit to serious reforms, we can talk about how to expand that access.

Please, please pay attention. I posted the facts from this New York Times article, printed on February 28, 2008:

"A Lender Halts U.S.-Backed Student Loans" by Jonathan Glater
"The Pennsylvania Higher Education Assistance Agency, one of the nation’s largest student loan operations, announced Wednesday that it would suspend making federal-guaranteed loans starting early next month.

The move offered further evidence of how the tight credit markets are affecting the industry, with some lenders warning that it could be more difficult and more costly for many students to obtain college loans for the 2008-9 academic year.

. . . .

As a result, some lenders have curtailed their activities. The College Loan Corporation, a large lender, announced that it was leaving the federal loan program.

The Missouri Higher Education Loan Authority, a state-created company that buys student loans from partners, has temporarily stopped offering private loans, which are not guaranteed by the government, and federal consolidation loans, which allow borrowers to combine multiple federal loans into a single payment. A Michigan agency recently suspended its private loan program, too.

And Sallie Mae, the largest student lender, has tightened loan standards in what could be a blow to commercial colleges and their students."

The implication that the only reason people could be against free higher ed for immigrants is racism or selfishness is divisive and is EXACTLY the kind of thinking that the right likes to use against progressives. It's this kind of disregard for middle and working class Americans that has turned a couple of blue states red. With anger.

This really should be a bipartisan issue. Accusing Americans who know very well that they and their families have faced an almost 40% increase in college tuition since 2000 that they should step aside and send their tax dollars to others because not to do so is "mean" or “ignorant” will only serve to drive a bigger wedge between Americans who need to work together.

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TWO More FUNDING NOTES:
1. Congress passed the first planned increase in Pell Grants this in DECADES, in spite of the skyrocketing costs of tuition (and of living). And the Pell? That's for the neediest American students. Bush has announced that he will veto the increase (NYTimes “House Passes Bill Aimed at College Costs,” also by Jonathan Glater)
2. Congress cut subsidies to student loan companies at the end of last year, which the industry says will lead to fewer loans. The way our business community bitches and balks if they don’t get a free ride leads ME to believe that they’ll make good on the threats (09/27/07 NyTimes “Congress Passes Overhaul of Student Aid Programs” by Diana Jean Schemo)


Again, work in the world of fact, not fantasy. I like the fantasy, too, but it's as irresponsible to pretend that American kids have a fair shake in our system as it is to pretend that dropping a couple of hundred thousand troops on Iraq will create "freedom."

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I won't interpret the info--here are the "country of origin" stats for illegal immigrants in the US, printed on CNN.com and supplied by the Pew Hispanic Center:

Africa and other 3%
Asia 13%
Europe and Canada 6%
Mexico 56%
Other Latin America 22%

And lest I be accused of racism because of the above order, it's just alphabetical.

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Ok, let's follow the logic of this Act. Illegal immigration is about the same severity of crime as, say, a speeding ticket. The "Dreaming" Act would help the children of illegals (children who came over after being born somewhere else, so therefore ALSO illegals) attend college. Therefore we propose to REWARD crime by sending people to college.

SO, if we are rewarding a crime that has the same level of severity as a speeding ticket, then by the logic of the Act, we should also start sending everyone who breaks the law by ACTUALLY getting a speeding ticket to college. Student loans for speeders...sounds good to me. So I propose a bill to reward people who commit various types of traffic offenses:

10MPH over the speed limit = 2 free years at community college

20MPH+ over the speed limit = four-year degree paid for

Speeding in a school zone = jackpot! You can get a Ph.D! And if there was a baby-carriage in the cross-walk when you did it then you are allowed to get that Ph.D without having to teach courses to the stupid undergrads.

I'm starting to get the hang of this law stuff now. Look for me on a Congressional ballot near you!

dboy

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I appreciate the moral and legal issues discussed regarding this article. The environmental and natural resource issues have not gotten the attention that they deserve. We are already running into water issues due to drought and building cities and communities where there is little water to support them and farming what was formerly desert. As a nation we are challenged to provide for the current population and yet we are adding more and more people. Policies that reward people for having more children are not helping to solve population issues. It seems that we view this country as a bottomless source of resources, when in truth we have to become better managers of what we have in order to survive.

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Everyone needs to STOP over-breeding!

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As for those who commented on the DREAM DEFERRED video, it astounds me how little factual information they have on the overall benefits of the DREAM ACT. If an DREAMER gets a college education (and is able to work in her profession) there is a significant increase in the taxes she will pay - and her income will be much more significant, which means she can purchase more and help the economy. Also, better educated people make a safer society - Keeping people out of the country is not what makes a difference, its the education and quality of life they receive once they are here.

The feeling of "everyone not having enough" seems to have permeated the thoughts of most Americans.

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I can tell you what happens to these innocent young people when they are deprived of opportunities: hopelessness, and the crime, drugs, and poverty that go along with hopelessness. Let's put an end to this nationalist clap-trap that's ruining the US's moral standing in the world.

What we need to do is make sure that ALL kids in this country have a shot at college. Are we so ignorant of history that we have forgotten one of the lessons of the Roman Republic?: a two-tiered system that gives all rights to citizens and deprives non-citizens of life's basics (while exploiting their labor) results in civil unrest.

Let's also remember another history lesson: when we talk about undocumented people we are talking chiefly about Mexicans, who have been subject to horrific discrimination in the US for almost 200 years and whose land the US stole in 1848. The current migration north is nature's way of correcting that injustice, which apportioned the good land north of the border for the US and sent its long-time inhabitants south as refugees into the desert. The refugees' descendants are back for what is rightfully theirs.

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Excellent article, kudos to Mr. Leighton Woodhouse. What I found most amazing is that a lot of people that have commented on this article have fallen for the false argument of "Let's put Americans first, who cares about the children of illegal aliens?" There are a lot of wrongs with that argument, the biggest one of them being that compassion for citizens of the U.S. and compassion for children of Economic Refugees is NOT a mutually-exclusive issue. I talk about this at lenght on my page: www.myspace.com/economicrefugee

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If a kid was brought into America soon after she was born and grew up in the school system here, and never learned the local language in the old country, by U.S. law that kid (or adult) is still an illegal and can be deported at any time back to the old country.

Maybe she could then get a job teaching English abroad.

Other than wingnuts being paranoid of "the law" getting violated and maybe the fear of them having their sons breeding with the cute immigrants, why isn't the above person a U.S. citizen? For that matter, why can't she run for President?

NPR, "This American Life" had another case. An American citizen married an illegal woman. They had a kid. They applied for the woman's citizenship. The Migre dragged their feet. Then the guy unexpectedly died. The woman was told her kid could stay in America but she would have to go. NOW!

A lawyer fought this in court, saying the intent of the American citizen was to marry the woman permanently, and the INS would be going against Congressional law by deporting her just because the bureaucracy was delayed. If the INS had been prompt, the husband would have been at the hearing and she would have gotten citizenship.

The courts eventually said she could be a citizen. Whereupon after the ruling the INS, using a new terrorism law, said she was being deported and under the terrorism law there was no legal recourse, nor did the INS have to give any reason for their deportation whatsoever under the terrorism law.

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Let's engage employers in a race to the top!! Open Borders will cause labor shortages in low wage countries thus pushing up wages in those countries and slowing foreign direct investment inflows. The wage gap will narrow saving US jobs and reducing the balance of trade deficit. This will help the US domestic economy and slow the offshoring of jobs overseas. US made goods will thus be more price competitive on the domestic and world markets if we allow wages to rise abroad due to growing outmigration.

The lesson: don't lock third world workers into low wage economies to the advantage of US transnational corporations that go abroad to hire cheap labor. Let workers migrate here so that wages shoot up abroad. Increased economic growth through public spending and full employment policies will increase labor demand and sustain US wages even in the face of foreign labor migration. This will increase consumer demand and create more jobs in the US. GDP growth is the best way to sustain full employment and higher wages.

Therefore, open borders makes good economic sense. This is especially true, if we focus on expanding unionization drives to raise wages and increase consumer demand instead of slowing the growth of the US labor force by kicking out immigrants.

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There is something we forget in this mind set about the poor Illegal Aliens and we should do everything we can to help them even let the go to college at a discount.
What about the poor American child that wants to go to college? He is a American Citizen do we do less for him than an Illegal Alien.

I teach college and during the past 8 years I have seen fewer and fewer lower income American students in my classes. We have cut college assistance to the poor and middle class, instead we have made them take out loans to pay for college and then it takes them years to pay it back, if they can get a good job.

so I say no to Illegal Aliens college assistance or even allowing them to attend American colleges.

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The open borders radicals, in their unwinnable, untenable fight, based on a middle-class guilt, are destroying the progressive cause.

You people need to stop with this. You're not helping anyone, much less the immigrants.

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I haven't been to my 'home' country in 10 years, it is not my 'home' anymore.
I'm sorry, but the anchor baby thing is just wrong. Undocumented immigrants still get deported even if they have kids who are citizen. Also, those kids cannot sponsor their parents for residency until they are either 18 or 21, one or the other. Do you actually think that parents are thinking about 'anchoring' themselves. It's just foolish thinking.
Dreamers, kids affected by the Dream Act legislation are kids who had NO choice in coming here. Coming legally has never been an option for them. If it was, they would have taken it already, believe me, none of us like being here illegally and would like to have our situations fixed.
Of coming here of illegally and legally, you make it out to be as if it was a choice. Don't you think that if people could come here legally they would? It is not the little people who are wrong but the entire system that makes them take the choices they make. My parents also work in manual labor, and they also take English classes, are they alright?
There is no simple solution to such a complex problem.

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Lol, I am not about to offer up details of my disempowerment and make it obvious as to who I am on an open forum.

If you don't believe that my parents advanced out of their hard-work and thanks to their legal status for a number of years that they could work hard and invest, that isn't my problem. Owning capital and working on it more than 60 hours a week makes it much easier to advance than working for meager wages.

What is so right-wing and anti-worker about wanting all workers to have competitive wages by eliminating capital flight and the possibility of off-shoring jobs? That my dear friend, is quiet a heterodox economics proposal, nowhere near right-wing unless you can show me an intellectual scholar who does not believe so instead of baselessly attacking my integrity and character to make a point. Besides the opinion of one of me, does not correlate to the opinion of thousands of other DREAMers so don't liken my intellectual understanding of political economy to the intentions of a whole student movement.

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I am a proud progressive Democrat.I get all sorts of grief how "liberals" first want to increase taxes and then devise hair-brained schemes to throw away these new tax dollars. In this scenario our tax money would be thrown to the children of illegal aliens. The same illegal aliens who have taken their jobs and helped to lower the middle class standard of living.

I have no problem treating illegals humanely and affording them the health care they need, while they are waiting to be deported. Deported, so they can be given a chance to apply to re-enter the US legally.

For anyone to suggest we use what little tax revenue available on secondary education for illegals is just asking to get their faces slapped by not only every conservative, but also by every middle class American parent who has had to BORROW money to send their AMERICAN child to college.

This is an idea destined to further degrade true liberals and born of people with a mind to see the word "liberal" drug through the mud again or who have no mind at all. Being "liberal" doesn't mean overlooking your fellow Americans in order to help less fortunate foreigners.

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The United States laws are currently made by the Corporations, for the Corporations. What does big business want? More money. One of the ways they get more money is by paying less. Corporations would love to educate immigrants who are willing to do the same job for less money than an American citizen. Many of these immigrants are so poor at home that they don't mind coming here and becoming scabs.

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The state of Maryland has a great number brilliant and talented young people graduating from its high schools. Consider Samuel,* a recent 17-year-old valedictorian of Patterson High School in Baltimore. Samuel graduated with a 4.0 average, was a contender on the national debate circuit and excelled in advanced placement classes. Samuel also envisioned “giving back to my community by fostering leaders (in) community outreach programs to the less fortunate.”

Samuel wanted to go to college to remain near his family in Baltimore. He chose Towson University, was accepted and planned on studying international relations.

Problem is, he won’t be able to go. Samuel’s parents brought him to this country when he was a child, and by the way, they had no papers when they got here.

Regrettably, although Samuel and his family have lived in Baltimore for several years, his lack of papers renders him ineligible to receive in-state tuition. He would have to pay out-of state tuition to attend Towson University, which would cost about $30,000 (tuition, housing, and fees. Tuition for out-of state students is 3x that for in-state residents). Since his status also makes him ineligible for federal financial aid, Samuel is stuck, his dreams deferred. Towson University is stuck as well because it needs students with Samuel’s interests, skills and talents.

Higher education in the state of Maryland has a responsibility to the state’s young people that transcends issues of class and status. Such responsibility, it seems, obliges public (and private) colleges and universities to lobby Annapolis on SB591/ HB 1236 (in-state tuition bills for undocumented students).

A strong lobbying push on this bill from MDs’ colleges and universities would provide a strong statement about the system’s commitment to the best and brightest students, regardless of how their parents crossed the border. And these bills, if enacted, would cost nearly nothing. Seems a no-brainer!

For this Thursday, SUPPORT SB 591

*Samuel is not this student’s real name. This info. comes from written testimony on in-state tuition bills before the legislature in Annapolis, courtesy of Casa de Maryland.

for more see
Koulflo.wordpress.com

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The Development, Relief and Education for Alien Minors Act (“The DREAM Act”) is a piece of proposed federal legislation that was introduced in the United States Senate in November of 2005 by Senator Richard Durbin. This act would enable successful high school graduates, who are undocumented immigrants, to attend college and eventually obtain legal status. These students must have lived in the United States for at least five years when they were fifteen years old or younger. These students need to have graduated from an American high school and show “good moral character” to apply for the DREAM Act, which would grant them conditional status for up to six years of legal residence. During the six-year period, the student has to graduate from a two-year college or serve in the military for two years. Once the six years are up, if they have completed this requirement, as well as kept up their good moral character, they would be granted a permanent green card and the right to apply for citizenship.
Many of the comments on this blog, such as those by Ellie1, are against this Act. Ellie1 puts what many people are saying into four simple words, “Citizens should come first”. While this is the opinion of so many people, there are also those that say it is incorrect to deny these intelligent and ambitious children the right to a higher education just because of their parent’s mistakes. This act is not willing to give these opportunities to illegal immigrants who came here by themselves when they were older than 16. By that age, these people are basically responsible for themselves and are committing a crime by coming into the United States illegally. It is not up to America to provide them education after what is considered “compulsory education” which means every child, illegal or legal, needs to attend school up to about 16 or 17 years of age, the details are up to each state. However, there is no such law for attending college. As many of us know, colleges are getting more expensive every year and many people rely on scholarships and loans to be able to attend college. Illegal immigrants cannot apply for these things because they would get deported. The DREAM Act would help aspiring students get loans so that they could attend college. People are worried that this would take away college spots from American citizens, but all this act is doing is giving illegal immigrants the opportunity to get a loan (they are not allowed to receive scholarships or grants), attend college, and eventually, like any other student, pay off their loans. There is no evidence saying that the immigrants will take away college spots from American children. Because of compulsory education, which was first established in Massachusetts in 1852, every child is required to attend school. What America is doing now is almost like dangling a piece of meat in front of a dog and letting it chase it for a while, and then taking it away. We are letting illegal immigrants get education at the lower level, but then we take away all their chances of a higher education that would help them get a better life and help boost our economy if they can get good jobs after college, just like the dog would finally be satiated and able to help its owner if it was allowed to eat the piece of meat. America is a country of immigrants. In 1909, the U.S. Immigration Commission reported that about 60% of students in large cities were children of immigrants, or immigrants themselves. Between 1900 and 1914, New York schools experienced a 60% jump in enrollment. This seems like a good thing, that people want an education. However, in 1913, a committee of education experts issued a report on the performance of the New York City school system. Their conclusions were less than satisfying.

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