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Rights and Liberties

Homeland Security Training NYC Firefighters to Spy

By Colin Meyn, In These Times. Posted February 19, 2008.


The FDNY will now be on the lookout for "material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities" during their day-to-day work.
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In New York City, the Department of Homeland Security is training New York City firefighters to assist in gathering intelligence information during routine inspections and emergencies.

In November, the Associated Press reported that in New York, Homeland Security was testing a program called the Fire Service Intelligence Enterprise (FSIE) to help identify "material or behavior that may indicate terrorist activities."

The Fire Department of New York (FDNY) and Homeland Security hosted a September 2007 conference in New York City to discuss plans for the new intelligence program. There, chief officers from fire departments in Chicago, Los Angeles, Washington, D.C., and 12 other U.S. cities met with NYC fire Commissioner Nicholas Scoppetta and officials from the Homeland Security Office of Intelligence and Surveillance. "Real-time intelligence and information leads to a heightened state of situational awareness," Scoppetta said at the conference. "And situational awareness is key to saving lives."

"We are not training firefighters to be intelligence gatherers or special agents," says Jack Tomarchio, Homeland Security's deputy undersecretary of intelligence and surveillance. "We are helping to provide crucial information to those people who are often the first responders."

In 2002, the Bush administration proposed having bus drivers, mail carriers and telephone repair personnel spy on the American public as part of Homeland Security's "Citizen Corps" initiative. The program, called TIPS (Terrorism Information and Prevention System), never made it past Congress. But because the FSIE is managed at the city level, it has bypassed federal regulation altogether.

The FDNY says the program is demanding nothing new from firefighters. "There has always been an expectation that if they see suspicious behavior they should report it," says FDNY Press Secretary Jim Long. "Now we are just trying to share information between other cities with the help of Homeland Security. If we know that they are convenience store owners, and they have maps and blueprints of the Empire State Building, it is obvious that something isn't right."

But the American Civil Liberties Union (ACLU) and the New York Civil Liberties Union (NYCLU) are troubled by the program. "When you start recruiting from every government agency for super intelligence, I think we run the risk of lots and lots of false alarms and distracting our firefighters from the job at hand," says Donna Lieberman, executive director of the NYCLU. "If there is a fire in their homes, and people have to make sure there is nothing that will give rise to suspicion -- like, in some people's eyes, perhaps the Quran, or in other people's eyes, a left-wing newspaper -- that is a matter of concern."

Civil liberties experts say this method of gathering intelligence may violate the right to proper search and seizure. Mike German, a former FBI agent and current ACLU Policy Council on National Security, said on MSNBC's "Countdown with Keith Olbermann," "There is actually still a Fourth Amendment."

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ACLU against America
Posted by: carbon-based on Feb 19, 2008 6:44 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a great plan but like the article said, I thought the fire department and police department were doing that as part of their job..

As for the ACLU, what can I say - they'd come out against anything that even attempts to protect this nation. I'm glad the supreme court dropped the hammer on their heads with their crazy law suit against the US government that they might be harmed in the US monitoring calls to terrorists..

Evidently the ACLU is defending terrorists outside this country.. they continue to become ever more irrelevant.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ACLU against America Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver
» RE: ACLU against America Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: ACLU against America Posted by: mainspark
» RE: ACLU against FACISM!!! Posted by: VickyinSD
» RE: ACLU against America Posted by: harryf200
» RE: ACLU against America Posted by: HillbillyBob
» RE: Hey 'Dipshit' Posted by: donl51
» RE: Hey 'Dipshit' Posted by: willymack
» RE: ACLU against America Posted by: meranting
A slight misnomer, there
Posted by: Fang-Face Dreamweaver on Feb 20, 2008 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fire Service Intelligence Enterprise (FSIE)

Seems to me that this should be called Fire Service Intelligence Enterprise Services. Then the acronym FSIES could be pronounced in a more appropriately descriptive fashion: feces.

Alternatively, one could settle for "stupidity" or even "Stazi" in place of "services".

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Firefighter = Secret Police???
Posted by: xvictor on Feb 20, 2008 5:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This used to be a practice among third-world and iron curtain countries. What's next, school teachers encouraging their young students to squeal on their parents? How LOW we have fallen!!! Nazi Germany revisited! Thank goodness the ACLU is on the forefront of maintaining our liberties.

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» RE: Firefighter = Secret Police??? Posted by: Ian MacLeod
FDNY -- a certain amount of baggage
Posted by: BenCaxton12 on Feb 20, 2008 6:15 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There's no question that the Men (and that's a 99% correct categorization... the department is 99% male and 87% white) of the NYFD are brave, intelligent, and very good at fighting fires.

But it's also true their leadership has tolerated an organizational culture marked by profound racism, sexism and homophobia ... with occasional highlights of rowdyism. In return for tolerance of one kind of unprofessionalism the City government gets payback on salaries, benefits and working conditions.

So, you've already got a paramilitary organization of highly competent high testosterone types under high stress, with lingering grievances just below the surface, and heritage of xenophobia and contempt for minorities.

And now ... these guys are going to be Homeland Security (not exactly) Agents.

Oh, names will be taken. Butts will be kicked. Rag-heads will be shown.

In general a really bad idea. In the case of FDNY -- a truly horrible one.

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I Spy
Posted by: QQOblivion on Feb 20, 2008 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Didn't the Communist governments of the Cold War and the government of Nazi Germany (among other authoritarian regimes) have citizens spy on their fellow citizens, making sure everyone followed along properly?
The only difference between that and the firefighters is that the firefighters wear uniforms.
But we won't have to wait long for America too to become like the Communist countries or like Nazi Germany. My prediction is that soon, very soon IF NOT ALREADY, we will not be able to trust ANY of our fellow Americans, because you won't know who is spying for whom.

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» RE: I Spy Posted by: donl51
» RE: I Spy Posted by: Ian MacLeod
It's the 1970s revisited
Posted by: xvictor on Feb 20, 2008 7:51 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was a fracas back then in letting NYPD folks be trained by the CIA. The going propaganda at the time was that the training would make them better officers. Better at what? spying, planting bugs, persuading citizens to squeal, secretly breaking in to people's homes, framing citizens,brain-washing, NEUTRALIZE? This is totalitarian secret police stuff. Thank goodness saner heads prevailed and the program stopped before it got started.

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» RE: mick3 Posted by: donl51
Squealers
Posted by: willymack on Feb 20, 2008 11:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Remember those little roaches in school who were only too happy to tattle on you if you were doing something naughty? They'd almost as often make something up, just to see you get into trouble. For my part, I was so obonoxious, I was promoted, then graduated just so the teachers could get rid of me, so the tattletales weren't that much of a problem. Ever wonder what becomes of those rats when they grow up? They become full-blown scumbags like rove, gonzalez,cheney, and bush, to name a few. The fourth amendment, fifth amendment, and probable cause mean nothing to them. They're still the sorry little suckass insects they were as children,only now, they have the power to do some REAL damage, and view firefighters and police officers as extensions of themselves.

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» Preach it! Posted by: billwald
Homeland Security and NYC Firefighters
Posted by: pana on Feb 20, 2008 3:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is truly scary. Please read Naomi Klein's books: The Shock Doctrine and The End of America.

I am appalled at what this current government administration is doing. I guess they think they are above the Constitution. Why Congress has not made any headway with impeaching Cheney and Bush is beyond me.

Frankly, I am sick of lawmakers who have their head in the sand, and only want to earn brownie points, gain more power, and make raunchy deals for personal gain at the risk of the common U.S. citizen, our fragile democracy, and Our Constitution.

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one step closer to BIG BROTHER:
Posted by: jwpa13 on Feb 21, 2008 12:20 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i see nothing wrong with firefighters reporting sings of physically dangerous itemssuch as gasoline or other dangerous chemicals stored inside a residential building. it is one thing to report on a physical danger, even indications of a possible "meth lab". BUT, there should be some recourse (such as a law suit) when any agent of the state reports a citizen for "though" crimes. it just isn't anybody's business what i read or lookup on the internet or who sends me mail .

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firefighter responsible for saefty.
Posted by: whealeydj on Feb 23, 2008 4:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
although i tend to vigilant against government authoritarianism, having firefighters report suspicious activities is common sense. they dont have time or resources to become spies.

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Firefighters have little interest in Spying.
Posted by: williameon on Feb 23, 2008 2:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They sit through these classes to meet the requirement and make a little overtime.
But there are still a lot of questions about 911 that remain unanswered.
Like:
The FDNY is the foremost authority in the World on building collapse yet,
Why were they kept from investigating and examining the evidence?
The evidence of the building collapses on 911 that contributed to the death of 343 their members.
The FDNY has the most advanced Hazmat Teams in the World.
Why did they remain silent about the terrible Toxic waste exposure hazard affecting the City?
Why where the Radios that had the range to reach into the highest floors of the Twin Towers locked in a closet?
Instead of used to save them?
That is why they were unable to receive the evacuation orders and monitor progress with dire consequences.
Lastly,
Most firefighters are just as brainwashed as anyone else.
Case in point:
The Firefighter’s Union leaders invited:
George W. Bush II and then Governor Pataki to the
Memorial Day Service in 2000.
Wannabe King George placed the wreath.

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What Terrorists?
Posted by: RedNeckRed on Feb 25, 2008 12:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When ever congress has made suggestions about national security, Bush has been against it. When it is something that the Bush cronies comes up with, it is always something that can be used against the American people. When Bush takes his third term in office, these are all the things to keep a dictator in power. I will be shocked if a black populist gets, or keeps power.

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This has been happening for years.
Posted by: gangstalking on Mar 12, 2008 10:26 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The US probably has as bad or a worst history of domestic sping. They had red squads over a hundread years ago. They had McCarthyism, Cointelpro, and now something that is being called Gang Stalking, which is basically a repeate of what happened in STasi Germany.

Citizens are spying on and harassing other citizens, following them around, people are being driven to forced suicide because of this.

No one is listening. Gang Stalking World

No one is listening and we will be in a situation soon that we can not get out of.

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