In this same issue of Alternet Noam Chomsky said :

" The more extreme people, I guess it was Irving Kristol, said insignificant nations like insignificant people sometimes gain illusions about their own significance. So therefore the age of gunboat diplomacy is never over, we'll just take it from them by force. Robert Tucker, a serious international relations specialist who is considered pretty moderate, said it's just a scandal that we're letting them get away with running their own resources. Why are we sitting here, we've got the military force to take them. Go back to somebody like George Kennan, who's considered a great humanist. When he was in the planning sector, in the late 1940s and early 1950s, he said harsh measures may be necessary for "protection of our resources" -- which happen to be in some other country. That's just an accident of geography. They're our resources and we have to protect them by harsh measures, including police states and so on.

Take Bill Clinton. He had a doctrine too, every president has a doctrine. He was less brazen about it than Bush, didn't get criticized a lot, but his doctrine was more extreme than the Bush doctrine if taken literally. The official Clinton doctrine presented to Congress was that the United States has the unilateral right to use military force to protect markets and resources. The Bush doctrine said we've got to have a pretext, like we've got to claim they're a threat. Clinton doctrine didn't even go that far, we don't need any pretext. With markets and resources, we have a right to make sure that we control them, which is logical on the principle that we own the world anyway so of course we have that right.

You're going to have to look far in the political spectrum to find any deviation from this. So if the oil-rich countries were to try to really take independent control of the resources, there would be a very harsh reaction. The United States, by now, has a military system; more is spent on the military system than the rest of the world put together. There's a reason for that. That's not to defend the borders."

And guess what NATO is up to :

""The US-NATO Preemptive Nuclear Doctrine: Trigger a Middle East "Nuclear Holocaust to Defend "The Western Way of Life""""

" Energy security continues to absorb us. The supply and demand of individual nations and the weakening of the international market infrastructure for energy distribution make the situation more precarious than ever."

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8048

It is no accident that Bush is demonizing Iran ...

"Fragile Dollar Hegemony: Iran's Oil Bourse could Topple the Dollar"

"Additionally, within the last week, three of the main underwater cables which carry Internet traffic have been cut off in the Persian Gulf and three-quarters of the international communications between Europe and the Middle East have been lost. Large parts of the Middle East have been plunged into darkness.

Is this merely a coincidence or is something else going on just below the surface? "

http://globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=8000

We now know that 5 internet cables were cut !

The demonization of Muslims is part and parcel of the war for oil which is being portrayed as a battle between civilizations.

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The fact that the Christian Right has gained so much legitimacy in this country, infiltrated the Pentagon, the government, and the need to have a religious requirement to become President, proves in my mind what a bunch of saps we Americans are and the consequences of not having proper history taught in our high schools. Both Christianity and Islam practiced in their “true” and literal forms have similarities (both are totalitarian groups that depend upon the ignorance of their followers and are different phases and plagiarisms from the original Judaic hallucinogenic desert religion who arrogantly set themselves apart from the rest of mankind) and are extremely dangerous in an age when we no longer fight with spears. This is not to claim that eradicating religion wouldn’t necessarily purify the earth since societies under secularist rule have also had lurid histories. Nevertheless eradicating religion would be a beginning to “purifying” the earth. And nevertheless, religionists on the extreme end continue to demonstrate how easy it is for any religion, should the proper conditions arise, to slide into a bloody fourth-century mindset. These people are a real pain in the ass. They make a good case for the eradication of all superstition, all sky gods. It is all fraud and bullying and power seeking, and most faith-heads are not happy unless you believe what they believe even though they cannot possibly know the “truth” they proclaim will set you free. Although both McCain and Huckabee claim Islam as the greatest threat to this country, it is religion itself that is the real issue here, and always has been. Trotting out former Muslims to evangelize for the Christian Right only plays upon the ignorance of the evangelical crowd and any group who is pro-Israel. I’m sure the Muslims could also find numerous examples of religious conversions to their faith.

And yet, there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim or a Christian, as long as they keep it to themselves. But that would mean the existence of a slightly more rational world.

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Its not the muslims the only one who will
get harm.Once it starts the other minorities
will be attacked too.
Its likud-gop axis that may prove fatal.
From allys in the war against the soviets
to them looking for ways to plant a nuke
in the US,or minimum the torch of the oil wells
in the middle east.
All for what?Read Buchanan,"who war".

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I agree with mmckinl that this phenomena has a lot to do with oil and gaining control over resources. Ideology is party of the problem, but political leaders are using church people to promote hatred of Islam, so that the USA can 'legitimately' go to war to control oil.

Other comments go the usual way of the ignorant anti-religion warpath. By using the same method of stereotyping as the Christian Right, they make general sweeping statements of the tyrannical nature of religion. It's more an expression of ignorance than anything else.

I would like to see more evidence about these three Palestinian men and what they are doing and who is supporting them. I've seen similar things in churches where I used to live, where an Iranian woman convert to Christianity (and people should have the right to convert) toured churches. She had obviously been carefully coached on what to say. And mostly she stirred up fear of Islam and Muslims.

It is all very distressing.

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There's no such thing as god, just several million people who are afraid of dying.

Not to change the subject...

Government of the people, by the people and for the people.

Direct Democracy

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But as a christian, shoudn't he be sick to death that they are all going to burn in hell since they don't believe in Jesus?

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that we really need to worry. There is conduct which is always criminal. If you are among those who want impeachment, the following opinon by two English barristers may be of interest.

[Article 7(2) of the UK's Human Rights Act 1998] provides that there is no infringement of Article 7 if the conduct of the person being condemned was against international law or was 'criminal according the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations'. This provision is justified because there are some acts which are wrong whether or not they are illegal under a given legal system, and punishing people for those is therefore allowed.

For example, if a law created a secret police who were allowed to shoot people for no good reason, that would be wrong and they should not act this way even if permitted to do so by law. It would therefore be morally permissible to punish them for this, and so not an infringement of the rights of any secret police who did go around shooting people. That act was 'criminal according to the general principles of law recognised by civilised nations'.

It is for this reason that it is considered morally acceptable to punish those who have committed war crimes, even if they acted within the law of their own country, because some acts are wrong whether or not they are permitted by law. Put another way, there are some things which cannot be made right just because they are made legal. So, the War Crimes Act 1991 provides retrospective criminal jurisdiction to courts in the United Kingdom regarding war crimes committed during the Second World War, in Germany by persons who are British citizens or are now resident in the United Kingdom: this is not contrary to Article 7 because of Article 7(2).

This was another consideration in the case of SW v UK, the marital rape case. The European Court stated:

The essentially debasing character of rape is so manifest that the result of these decisions [...] cannot be said to be at variance with the object and purpose of Article 7 of the Convention. [...] What is more, the abandonment of the unacceptable idea of a husband being immune against prosecution for rape of his wife was in conformity not only with a civilised concept of marriage but also, and above all, with the fundamental objectives of the Convention, the very essence of which is respect for human dignity and human freedom.

Thus the Court was affirming the principle that there is no breach of Article 7 where the law allows, or appears to allow, something which is inherently and seriously wrong. This is because it should be quite obvious to the person committing such an act that what they are doing is wrong, whether or not it is legal. It should not be an excuse for them to hide behind a legal exception or technicality and the removal of such a legal protection does not infringe their rights, because the context is one in which they are only having to face the consequences of doing something they should not have done.

David Hoffman & John Rowe QC (2003) Human Rights in the UK: An Introduction to the Human Rights Act 1998, p 179

This explains, of course, why the present administration has been increasingly oppressive--these people have a lot to fear. Perhaps it's time to campaign for plea bargaining and clemency for members of Congress. Checking the misuse of power is still a good idea.

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As Sinclair Lewis once said, "When fascism comes to America it will come wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."

However, with the Presidential candidacies of the Islamophobes (particularly that of Mr. Huckabee) now sputtering most parts of the United States outside their narrow fundamentalist orbit, it would appear that the so-called "rabid religious right" is learning just how out of touch with the rest of society (and our Constitution) they really are.

Thankfully, their once grand plans to turn our nation into a despotic theocracy are now falling down around their ears as more and more of the rest of us witness the sheer, blatant hypocrisy (if not the outright fraud and chicanery) now being perpetuated by the so-called "leaders" of these "holier than thou" types.

In that narrow sense, the Presidency of George W. Bush has been a Godsend because the true nature of their (and his) theocratic plans for our nation have now been revealed (and personified) for all to see…and reject.

Our Founding Fathers very carefully crafted our Constitution so as to firmly prohibit the establishment of a "state religion" all the while guaranteeing every citizen the right to free expression of their own religious beliefs.

I certainly have no qualm with someone expressing those religious beliefs in their own, private way. However, I (and most others) are increasingly drawing the line when the "holy rollers" attempt to cram their narrow (and often militant) religious beliefs down the rest of our throats via the legislative process as well as via captive audiences in such public places as our schools and universities.

Maybe that's because most of the rest of us have now learned that the so-called "Moral Majority" wasn't (and isn't) so "moral" (nor is it a "majority") after all.

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Chris Hedges, the author of this article, said a wonderful thing---"Obama reassured followers that he was a Christian. It apparently did not occur to him, or his questioners, that the proper answer is that there is nothing wrong with being a Muslim, that persons of great moral probity and courage arise in all cultures and all religions, including Islam. Christians have no exclusive lock on virtue."===
Superb statement--Thank You, Chris Hedges.

FRANKLY---some of the best people I know are agnostic (don't claim to know religious truths one way or another) and atheists---in fact, the atheists I know feed the hungry, clothe the poor, help others regardless of affiliation, (either religious, gender-orientation, political party or any other defining attribute)---they don't do good things because they have a desire to please a god or a selfish desire to get themselves a ticket to the hereafter (if there is one).
They do what they do because they have loving hearts. Now if I were God, I'd put them first on my list for entry into Heaven.

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Why do we even try and dissect this whacked part of our society? The Christian Right? They don't deserve the thoughtful concern that the posters in this thread are giving. I believe the whole lot of them should be treated like summer bugs. You just whack them as they light and when they get too pesky, give a good dose of DDT.

They're not worth it, and have proven their utter lack of credibility.

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This would have been a powerful answer to the right wingnuts had it offered evidence that these men are charlatans rather than just ranting about the problem.

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The Fundamentalist theology contains its own refutation of the idea of war against the Moslems. They are continually preaching the doctrine of justification by faith.

Through this doctrine, they hold that good works are futile in the quest for salvation.

In the conservative movement, faith in Jesus and evangelization or proclamation of the Gospel is the only path to salvation.

To refute the idea of Holy War against the Infidel, one need only ask the Fundie whether his Jihad is placing his faith in works.

The difficulty is not in the theology, the difficulty is in the Preachers and people who see themselves as God's Elect and unbound by any sort of human decency.

The Fundamentalish movement provides no institutional or practical control to temper the people's passions.

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Everytime any religion gets any type of power, intolerance, hate, and human rights abuses follow.

Islam has power in the Middle East. Feel free to list the human rights abuses. Hope you have plenty of time on your hands, it might take a bit.

Christianity used to have power in Europe. It was no better.

Egypt believed their pharaoh was a god. Once again, very sickening rites and the abuses of enslaved people.

Aztec sun worshippers performed human sacrifices, because their high priest had power.

The issue isn't WHICH religion has power, ANY religion having POWER is a problem.

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Forget for a moment that what we see is another HIT JOB on Christians. The left cannot seem to distinguish between Christians and “hard right” Evangelicals, just as they cannot seem to bring themselves to write a similar article denouncing what is probably the most violent religion in existence today, Islam, especially in it’s extreme form.

Regular every day Muslims do not pose any more threat to America as regular every day Christians pose to Muslims around the world.

One only needs to look at the terrorism Muslims are waging around the world to get a sense of why many people associate terrorism with Muslims, an unfortunate association for the every day muslim family.

As for McCains statements, Islamic terrorism is pretty much what is going on in the world today..not Christian terrorism. I do not see Christian blowing themselves up killing thousands. I also do not see any articles relating to recent reports that Islamic terrorists are recruiting children and mentally impaired people to blow themselves up for the cause.

I might also remind people that Obama and the far left especially take great pains to make sure people know he is not a Muslim – so it appears the left is just as phobic as the right about muslims.

Lastly Islam is under no more threat in this country than Christianity – judging by the number of anti Christian articles appearing in left leaning publications, attacks by the ACLU and other groups to erase Christianity from our identity.

As a Catholic I am demonized by the far right Evangelicals/born again crowd as any other religion – but at least I feel pretty secure that they aren’t going to blow me up for their cause.

Can it be that people like Martin Luther King who was a very religious person and referred to religion in many of his speeches were that horrible or can even be compared to Islamc radicals.

It sems that it's the far left with their anti Christian movement that is fueling the Christian right response - the last thing we need is another religious right in office - way to go left!

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WAWA Blog February 3, 2008:

"USA Air Force Academy Feb. 6, 2008: Failure of Intelligence to Support the Troops"


[Orlando, Fl. Feb. 1, 2008] The infamous darling of fear filled fundamentalist Christians and Jews of the cult spewed by the likes of John Hagee and the idiot wind blown on FOX's Hannity & Colmes, Bill O'Reilly and Neil Cavuto show, will be show boating at the annual political forum at the US Air Force Academy on Feb. 6, 2008.

Walid Shoebat, author of "Why We Want to Kill You" has built a lucrative speaking career by manipulating the fears and whipping up hatred between Jews and Muslims and he claims to be a former Islamic terrorist who has converted to Christianity...


Keith Davies, Walid's handler emailed me on Feb. 5th:

"To avoid a lawsuit you need to contact us by email within 24 hours, it is now 1 a.m. aprox EST, so you can issue a full apology and retraction. We will provide instructions once you contact us. If you do not we will use the full weight of the law so that the integretity of Mr. Shoebat's story is protected. The choice is yours"


I posted most of Walid's epistle to me and my responses on the Feb. 7th blog, and offer you an excerpt:

Hi Keith,



No apology and no retraction will come from me. The issue for me and the point of my article which Walid and you ignore is:



Walid's brand of Christianity has nothing to do with the teachings of Jesus who promised it is the peacemakers who are the children of God and not those that bomb, torture, starve or occupy others.



Walid's brand of Christianity defies that "God is love. Whoever lives in love lives in God, and God in him. There is no fear in love. Perfect love drives out all fear because fear has to do with punishment." 1 John 4:16, 18



Walid's brand of Christianity as professed by anti-Christ's [against the teachings of Christ] such as John Hagee and Tim La Haye's Left Behind nonsense is the epitome of the spirit of the anti-Christ: fear of the other that drives one to violence.



Walid's brand of Christianity thrives on fear and Jesus said: "FEAR NOT! You shall know the truth and the truth will set you free."





Walid's brand of Christianity leaves behind all the non-negotiables for those who claim to be a Christian; which is you must forgive, bless and love your enemies.



The problem is not with Christianity but that too few have done it the way Jesus taught and modeled: to always work for PEACEFUL resolutions, even to the point of returning violence with compassion and forgiveness, as Jesus did when nailed to a cross and he prayed: "Father forgive them, they do not know what they are doing."



St. Paul who never hesitated expressing his freedom of speech warned, "Do not judge the non-believer, it is none of your business. But, when it comes to the believer, provoke one another to good works."



God knows the motivations of Walid's heart, but as Rev. Awad warned, "Christians are called by God to prayerfully use the gift of discernment."



Discernment and good intelligence is what our troops need, and that is not what they are receiving on February 6, 2008 at the USA Air Force Academy, in Colorado Springs, Colorado, in the heart of the western Bible Belt.





"You can stand me up at the gates of hell, but I won't back down."-Tom Petty





Eileen Fleming,

Author, Reporter and Editor WAWA:

http://www.wearewideawake.org/



Producer "30 Minutes With Vanunu"

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I've had MANY "christian" neighbors, and to an individual they are the loudest, noseyest, most annoying people I have ever met.

on the other hand, I once had a young Muslim couple as neighbors, and they were the best neighbors I've ever had, always polite, quiet, and ready to help...

so who's the real problem here?

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And Christians are never ever psychopaths or terrorists.


I'm sure the irony of wanting to exterminate people because you think they want to exterminate you is lost on these wingnuts.

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Do the roots of this fear/hate/demonisation lie in the threat of terrorism or is it something more profound? There is a truth that is becoming more stark every day: economic power is shifting from the West to Asia - an unintended effect of the globalisation of capital. When Western economic institutions are being bought up by the "other", this shift becomes hard to ignore; but the resulting trepidation may well be sublimated in hatred of a convenient "other".

Islam, radical or not, fits the bill for a scapegoat very nicely. Perhaps empires are at their most deadly when they are experiencing drawn out death throes.

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I am 66 years old and I heard all my life about godless communism, but I never heard about the godless Nazis. Why do you suppose that is? Why don't you good christians out look it up?---By the way I know the answer.

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What is sad is that so many Christians let someone else read the bible to them, which distorts the Faith they could attain as a Christian if they were to read it themselves. When I read bible stories to my children I told them as a Christian I viewed the Old Testament as a genealogy and history lesson that led up to the birth of Jesus Christ, and that in the New Testament I viewed a lot of it this way also. That when I read the Bible I looked hard for the words from my God and my Jesus Christ and in doing so I found the Loving Father in God and in Jesus Christ from the words I perceived coming directly from them, in the Holy Scripture. The Ten Commandments is good rules to follow, they teach us how to get along in life that can reduce friction within yourself as well as with our fellow humans. Jesus Christ added to love your fellow human as you love yourself and your family to this, not only for the basic reason that we are all humans and therefore have what we perceive as sin, but as a guide in how to overlook what we perceive as sin in our fellow human existence. That is why God gave us Jesus Christ and the Holy Spirit, to guide us and to learn to forgive, as well as have the Faith that Jesus Christ died for all humans. Jesus took the fear of eternal damnation from sin, by dying and resurrecting for all sin, and thereby saving us all from sin. My children have since studied the Bible themselves and the one thing I notice about them is that it is easier for them to forgive their fellow easier then to forgive themselves. They have also looked into religious cultures to find one that teaches tolerance as I did and as I encouraged them to do, they find it much easier to be tolerant of the different teachings of these sectors, because of these religions history. If people look for the negative they will find it, if people look for the positive they will find it. But it takes special people to not make judgments against people, and place the judgment on behavior that is taught.

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Thanks Chris Hedges-

Yours is a VERY important article!

Islamophobia, fueled by the Christian right, is far more dangerous to all of our security than the global war on terrorism. I am certain of that!

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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“In God we must - regardless” might well be the new battle cry of these right-wing religious maniacs. I know very little about God (god), but even so I suspect I know more than they do, with the limitations they have set on God - what he (of course, “he”) is or isn’t, where situated, etc. Who would have guessed, a la that creationism place in Kentucky, that Adam and Eve disported with dinosaurs? Great concept to teach the kids! I do believe that, if God there truly be, Einstein stated one hell of a lot more about him or it or whatever than all the redundancies in the Bible ever could - E = mc squared, for instance. Interestingly, too, Einstein had been seeking a statement that might bring it all together, the universe and all there is, in a unified field theory. Well, he didn’t but maybe he was on his way. My God (convenient phrase), Huckabee, with his pitiful grasp of reality, along with his like, insult any self-respecting god with their limited definitions. Now they would turn their poor creation into a kill-’em-dead avenger. Problem is that (1) they probably mean it and (2) such has been done before, thus serving as cautionary history. How remarkably wise those deist founders of ours, now being falsely defined and radically exploited by self-proclaimed patriots who, in their gross, even cynical and deliberate, misinterpretations of our founding, make Benedict Arnold look slightly superior to G. Washington. Perhaps, though, they are really alchemists who, through their words and activities, might scare even rationale true believers into becoming atheists.

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It's an old truth. The 'tar baby' effect is that your eventually become what you fight against. I have never seen much difference between the 'fundamentalist' mindset in western religions. The similarities are great and even the differences are merely petty interpretational things at best, or limitations on what they think they can get away with at worst. It's all identification and the desperate clinging to a threatened idea. An infinite God may just appreciate an infinite variety of feedback from it's creation rather than a narrow, and presumably boring, litany.

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The very first occurance of politically directed genocide was Moses and the Jews wandering in the Desert, Moses wanted the land of the Cannanites, and needed and excuse to take it. Low and behold, Moses claims GOD has told him that he is displeased with the Cannanites, and that they have to be wiped from the face of the earth. So be it, and Jacob goes off to kill all the Cannanites, every man woman and child.

Now Moses has a place for his people.

Now ain't that Special.

Corporations want the middle east oil, and no pesky muslims are going to prevent that.

One would think that we in the US should be able to switch to an alternative fuel. No matter how much it cost, it would stop the hemmoraging of US funds into the Middle east.

This is not the Corporate objective.

Oil companies are vertically integrated, so they make money at every step in the process. Load the oil onto tankers, (Which they own) transport it to the US, (which they charge us for) they off load it to a refinery (Which they own) make many products from oil, they ship it via pipeline ( which they own) to your local tank farm (which they own) ship it to your local gas station on trucks ( which they own) etc. Tack on a few cents at each step, and you quickly see how Exxon/Mobile made $40 BILLION in profits last quarter.

The Dumbya administration has allowed monoplies to vertically integrate in every aspect of business. Insurance, Health care, Pharmacies, etc.

All while claiming to be good Christians.

What a joke.

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'Nuff said.

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Self goodness, no matter what name it has, but people who are willing and able to harm others just because they do not share the same ideology, skin color, or language are the ones who are the most dangerous ones.

Historically, the muslims have always been (and still are) reactionary in their behavior, they are not pro active in having an agenda or plan, but instead, they are reacting to "things" that happen.

Fundamentalist Christians on the other hand, have always been pro-active in their action and planing, if there is no conflict, they create one, if there is no war, they start one and if there are no evil terrorists, they acts as one.

Through out history, these ideologists, have killed millions of innocent people, once they were called beasts, evil worshipers, or godless creators in Africa, South America, Asia and almost every place where the missionaries arrived. Later on in modern time they changed it to godless communists and their sympathizers, all over the world, from the rain forest of Vietnam, to the deserts of Sahara to the jungles of south America they chased, scalped and killed millions of people.

In the modern time, in the post 9/11, it is the muslims, and now, with crazy people like Osama and Ahmadinejad, they have good evil images to portrait as the able danger to sole existance of their sick and godless crimes in the name of god and Christianity.

These people are 1000 times more dangerous than idiots like Osama or any other crazy muslim fundamentalist, because they are both able and willing to wave the way for the second coming of Jesus and with support among the US military and rich business people, they can do so much damage to our life that we will be sorry we did not stop them in time.

Article highlights the issue perfectly.

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Palestinians are not only Muslim but also Christians who share the same territory with ancient Hebrews. Maybe these three chaps were Christian to begin with, grew up in Palestine and know how to talk the talk on this side of the wall Israel has built to separate US.
IM
Belteshazzar

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by means of non conforming or relating to a christian{~ethics}or {~responsibilities}.

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First, they win persecute Muslims. Who will be next? Gay people? Buddhists? Free thinkers? All in the name of God. Give me a break. What the hell are we teaching our children? To grow up and become hateful, God spouting drones? We are in a world of hurt and it is of our own making.

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You don't even know what they said exactly. You say they are a fraud, then give good solid facts provening that they are. What did they say and what context was it in and how is it false. You can not combat untruths by just flinging words out there. Tell what they said and why it is not truth.

To act as if the Muslim faith is not a threat to this nation is to ignore what has been going on and what some of the muslim leaders have said, here and in other countries. To say it is a small group of muslims is also an untruth. To say that it is all muslims is also an untruth.

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It's true! The Christian right sees killing as something Jesus would have approved, whereas if they'd read the Bible, which most of them have only read the parts that suited them and left the rest behind, they would know their own sins for what they are.

However, I'm surprised it's taken you this long to figure out where these peoples' thoughts were, because I've known it for years.

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All of the worlds religions are based on the common thread of the group mind trance. "If all my friends and family belief it must be true...", kind of roboticness.

The only hope for humanity is to give up on trying to see the so called divine in ourselves and the universe. Its the experience that we have and then it is all gone. So enjoy and stop believing in fairy tales.

We just have to accept the fact that God is a man made concept designed to control and guide the masses into giving up their personal power to a "higher power" and thus nuetering free thought and self respect.

The "higher power" is always some crazed irrational person or group of people and NOT the loving invisible pink unicorn or allah or jehovah or buddhah or what ever name is given to the cartoon character of choice.

Embrace secular transhumanism and live for the day doing good for the sake of all, not because the rabbi or imam or priest tells you. Also do not do bad because the same bunch of assholes tell you.

USE YOUR MIND or someone else will.

Words from the soap box of free thought.

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Wow, that is the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. Its such a shame that the media chooses idiots like this group in the article to "represent Christianity" to our nation. Anyone who "knows" the Bible would know that God teaches us to hate the sin, not the sinner. In God's eyes, disobedience is no less a sin than the act of homosexuality, murder, or adultery. But as Christians, we are called to love and respect everyone, regardless of their lifestyle, religious practice, or political stance. There is definitely no better way to show who Jesus really is, than to let our lives and our actions speak for us. So when these so-called Christians take such a drastic stance against an entire people group, like Muslims, the message sent out is the exact opposite of what Jesus has commanded us to do. It's such a shame.

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Or better yet, the Cartoon Jihadi's.

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You are as guilty of lie-mongering as the people you profile when you link the "Christian Right" to this fringe group. I am not a Christian or a religionist of any ilk, but I am related by marriage to conservative Christians and I sent this article to one, someone who reads the Bible literally, has eschewed incontrovertible science for religion in her understanding of human history, and, as her comment below shows, believes homosexuality is a sin. At 25 y/o with a minister husband, she IS the Christian Right and this is her answer after reading your piece.

"Wow, that is the most absurd thing I've read in a long time. Its such a shame that the media chooses idiots like this group in the article to "represent Christianity" to our nation. In answer to your question, no, I have definitely not seen or heard of anything like this going on in our community. Anyone who "knows" the Bible would know that God teaches us to hate the sin, not the sinner. In God's eyes, disobedience is no less a sin than the act of homosexuality, murder, or adultery. But as Christians, we are called to love and respect everyone, regardless of their lifestyle, religious practice, or political stance. There is definitely no better way to show who Jesus really is, than to let our lives and our actions speak for us. So when these so-called Christians take such a drastic stance against an entire people group, like Muslims, the message sent out is the exact opposite of what Jesus has commanded us to do. It's such a shame. Thanks for asking my opinion."

We complain when the right says that the left doesn't love their country if they are against the war, complain about all sorts of branding of the left by the right. This heinous branding of the conservative Christians by you is no better. You should be ashamed of yourself.

KAEL

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"I don't know that Atheists should be considered as citizens, nor should they be considered patriots. This is one nation under God."
— President George H.W. Bush

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Get real!!! Pat Robertson praying for god to cleanse the Supemem Court, the 700 culb backing that idea up,how very un christian. In fact it's down right ANTI-CHRIST.
Christian's burnt Indians at the stake for 'accepting christ'.
Christians gave us the inquisition
Christians burnt women and children for being witches.
Christians backed the genocidal practices of this government,Nazi gremany and Rome.
What we are seeing is the workings of the ANTI-CHRIST.
Remember your teachings, he's supposed to be such a smoothe talking motherfucker that you're fooled into thinking he's doing God's work. But then again christian's made their hero into a craven idol of a dead guy on a stick, instead of following his teachings.
If he were here today he would call out Bush, the Church and all the other yahoo's that used his name to perpetrate such evil deeds
Jeffreyy7, I'm Spiritual not christian,and damn glad of it

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I like Chris Hedges, but nowhere has he given us a direct quote or a specific example of anyone advocating what the title specifies. I'm sure plenty of people who consider themselves "Christian right" would be horrified by the notion of purifying the world by killing Muslims.

It's disappointing that AlterNet would run this piece under this title without requiring Hedges to provide specifics.

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I have to congratulate Chris for what he is doing. This is the way to get rid of all the Christian nut jobs and their organizations.

Until fellow Christians deal with their own lunatics, we will criticize all. Same goes for Muslims. If they say that Islam is not violent, they must drive the extremist to oblivion (I don't mean kill them, but their ideas).

We need much more of this from within.

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One issue that is left hanging out there is a possible further scapegoating, this time by the extremist Christians against the Jews of America. It is a mere stroll down the block to see this anti-Muslim sentiment spill over onto Jews. What if the Muslims "win" this war? What if the "end times" never come? What if, in pursuit of this theology, the war economy in America collapses? Do you not think that this enmity will be turned against Jews who encourage people like the Reverend Hagee and his followers? Do you think that neo-cons of Jewish descent such as Kristol, Feith, and Wolfowitz won't be scape-goated if the house of cards collapses?
This venom will not be poisoning just the Jews, but, as we can see by the breakdown of civility and respect in America, others will be scapegoated as well.

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Bush 'panders' to them so he can get his true agenda which is to take over the Middle East. He needs their lame support to get his agenda. By pushing 'hatred' towards Muslims...Bush and the Neo-cons succeed.

Freedom of Religion is an American right and it shall stay. Huckabee is nuts. He can dream of one religion but the rest of us Agnostics, Atheists, Muslims, Hindus, Buddahists...etc.. Shall fight them. Huckabee and these fanatics stand no chance. Stop giving them voice and they will fade.

My suspicion is Huckabee is 'staying' in the election to see how much power the Evangelical agenda really is and how many support their propaganda. How else can it be measured then to run on his platform?

Freedom of Religion, stands in their way and so does all the other Religions based here. How much power do they have? We shall see.

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toward their apology for taking over their land and life......

F--K You!!!

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..also fought aginst the civil rights bill, too!

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Lemme start off with a little disclaimer, I do not speak on behalf of all Muslims. Now that that is out of the way...First off, a lot of Muslims see Muslims who convert in a very bad light. Why? Just like this article says they go around calling themselves former Muslims and call the religion horrible. Being part of a religion doesn't make that person an expert. I'm glad this article exposes their fraud. Unfortunately, only the educated Alternet readers will read this article because the rest of the people are being brainwashed by the extreme Christian right. Even the moderate Christian right is being brainwashed.
I believe that when it is all said and done, the Christian right will try to purge the US of all others. Atheists, Buddhists, Muslims, Sikhists, Hindus, Agnostics, Jews...ALL OTHERS. Hopefully, the extreme Christian right fails and their message falls through. They don't even really seem like Christians, but more like hypocrites.

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Secrets are the foundation upon which this regime is based. One has to be 24/7, many and various newspapers, many and various TV and radio news channels, etc. to even come NEAR all the stuff this administration is up to. Some events are kept from the media too. Secrecy is the basis for disfunctionality. America is pretty much Fascist now, as Bush has followed the playbook of Mussolini to a word on closing down our open society and making himself the final say-so with "checks and balances" out the window. Other countries are under the same threats but their leaders are not using them to become dictators. The fear that many Americans now have is exactly, as planned, what it takes to get us to hand over civil rights and crave security. But it's a lie. Add to all this the anti-terror industries that are flourishing here through lobbying for broader definitions of what is a terrorist? and this "war" is never meant to end. What, put Halliburton out of a job?

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Right you are!

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The Judeo-Christian God and the Islamic Allah is the same “one God of Abraham.” Both mythical characters are depicted in the Bible and the Koran as imperialistic, bloodthirsty, no mercy, tyrants.

It is no surprise that “War-Hawk Christians” try to unite and wage ideological holy war on anyone not exactly like them. The Biblical God and the Koran’s Allah has programmed and commanded them to do so.

Religious Christianity, like religious Islam, traditionally wage war among themselves - just as the God of Israel often destroyed His Own. Factions of Islam are at war today.

“The God Murders” at:

http://www.thegodmurders.com/id91.html

depicts raw / evil Chapter & Verses of the Bible.

http://www.thegodmurders.com/id114.html

depicts why Christians wage ideological war to convert souls.

“The Judeo-Christian-Islamic God / Allah is not a good God / Allah and neither the Bible nor the Koran are not good models for humanity. It is time for them both to be retired to museums as man’s saddest afflictions upon mankind.”

“President George W. Bush, an imperialist Christian, is the greatest leader I have ever seen.” See how and why at:

http://www.thegodmurders.com/id144.html

It’s time for humanity to be free of such monstrous plagues on the mental-emotional system of mankind.

It’s free – for those who have the courage to investigate.

Regards, Gary DeVaney

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for killing millions of Jews. I've heard the sentiment expressed by people I know who've bought into this crap. Seig Heil, Christian right extremists. You're no better than the Nazis. The extreme Christian right's agenda has always been dominion over the earth and they're doing everything they can to put this plan into place. http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Dominionism

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This used to be a more tolerant nation, where we celebrated and embraced our diversity.
These hate-mongers are not true Christians.
If he were here, Christ would scorn them. Then they would in turn scorn Christ, as they scorn everyone who questions their motives.

Shameful.

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I don't understand how other-worldly religions end up fighting over this world. If they truly believe that what matters is where you end up after you die, why can't they just wait until then before fighting?

Since the claim on both sides is that they own what is immortal, why do they begrudge anyone a bit of peace and quiet in this realm of suffering? I am willing to concede them the next life if they'd just leave me alone in this one. I will not contest their claims to all of heaven. They can keep it for themselves. So may they die happily ever after.

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I'm unafraid. You want people to be scared? Well, I just don't feel like it. They make me laugh. I think that whole scene is some kind of expression of weakness. That kind of religion is on the way out, I believe. Look, in a world with vast amounts of information readily available to more and more individuals throughout our society and the world, about other peoples and cultures, other religions -- fundamentalist religion simply cannot survive. Fundamentalist religion is dependent upon the abysmal ignorance of it's followers.

And OK, right now they are a political force...to an extent. But you know these Christian Right-wingers aren't the real power in this country. They are it's tools. Be concerned with who it is that benefits from and uses these mean spirited sheep. It don't take long to figure out who that is. My little point is that the Christian Right gets too much attention and more credit than they deserve. They don't even have a presidential candidate they can love this year.

I think a lot of you out there don't have real problems, like with you know, money and health care and stuff like that. "Bread and butter issues" as they are called. And you have too much time on your hands and have maybe read too many scary books about these "Christian Fascists" coming to get you.

Hedges is a smart guy and his book, "War Is a Force That Gives Us Meaning" is a classic in my opinion. But umm, "I Don't Believe in Atheists"...not so much.

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If it was "the unconditional love of Jesus Christ" that inspired the majority of the German Christian clergy, to say nothing of the Vatican, to turn a blind eye to the Holocaust, I believe I'll pass on such Christianity, thanks.

The Jesus Freaks, much like Bush when he was "finding Jesus," obviously nodded out while Jesus was getting to the part about "Blessed are the Peacemakers."

Regarding their self-aggrandizing hatemongering, I can't help wondering, "What Would Jesus Think?"

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And he turned back, and looked on them, and cursed them in the name of the LORD. And there came forth two she bears out of the wood, and tare forty and two children of them.-----What is the moral of this story? Answer Don't fuck with god.

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Osama Bin Laden originated from America's unequivocal support of Israel. Israel's support is rooted in USA hatred of Muslims and that originates from the Christian Right. Furthermore, the Iraq war, saber rattling with Iran, and all the rest of it, is rooted in USA's hatred of Muslims. And, once again, this hatred stems from the Christian Right. Why does America want to exterminate Muslims? Not all Americans do, but American policy makers, controlled by the Religious Right, want to do so. And, that is the current policy guiding America. Now, you see where 911 comes from, where the wars come from.

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Why stop with those nasty Muslim fanatics? How about the Chinese and their godless religions? The Indians with their polytheistic Hinduism? And the Africans, too, are polytheistic animists. And don't forget the Latins and their Santeria-like religions. While we're at it, down with all atheists (what's that, about 50 million Americans?), and all blacks, Asians, Latins, making about 150 million, then let's go for the backsliders and apostates and cultists, which leaves just two people in the US, both of whom will shoot each other because it's my way or the highway. End of story.

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All of the post here are rated # 5 and I think 70 % of Americans think this way, but we let the other 30% tell us what to do, so I ask how do we change the 30% that tell us what to do? If we the people of America could get the people in washington to impeach Mr. Bush & Co I think we could stop all this hatred and killings of all man kind.. I have no hope but just maybe we will see a change in washington, Bill Davidson

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Mr. Hedges: My brother gave me a copy of your latest book for X-mess and I can't wait to read it. I probably would not have gotten around to it for a while, but I read your piece on the Three Stooges of "Ex-Muslimism" and now I am putting your book on top of the stack. The writing you are doing is probably the most important there is. Thanks for your efforts.

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The christians must remember de Inquisition and
the first centuries of their religion. They can
find crime and tortute but no love.

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There was an illegal man, an immigrant Palestinian, actually from Samaria, who found a man in an alley who was beaten, robbed and left for dead. He pulled off his own shirt, applied direct pressure to a bleeding wound with the shirt and called 911 with his free hand. A private ambulance responded, but when they couldn't find any ID on the victim they said they couldn't take charity cases. The Samaritan said, "I'll co-sign".

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It never ceases to amaze me the complete ignorance people have regarding the Muslim religion, but what amazes me more is the ignorance people have about what Christianity is or is not. Christianity is about one person, Jesus. It is not about James Dobson, Pat Robertson or anyone else who is in the public eye. If you want to know what is right or wrong you can listen to the Christian leaders but you must reconcile what they say to what is taught in the Bible.

People are and will always be fallable and there are those that will continue to point to people's fallicies and say see Christianity is wrong, intolerant, bigoted or whatever else unbelievers want to label believers.

My heart is heavy tonight for all those on this blog who have yet to see the Light because the enemy has used ignorance to harden their hearts to the Truth.

Remember, people are ALWAYS going to let you down, but Jesus will not ever leave you nor forsake you if you choose to make Him your savior--search your heart, it will tell you the truth when your laying in bed at night and you are by yourself and there is no one to hear you but the Lord--look inside yourself ask Him to reveal Himself to you--go to a good local church because if you believe there is no God and there is, what are you going to say when you face Him and He asks why you never believed? God Bless you all!!

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Hello all: There are real christians in USA and in the world. I urge you to go to http://latter-rain.com/ real christians, not like Pat Robertson or jimmy swagart

I believe in God and Jesus as a revolutionary socialist. My mom died, and I believe that she is in heaven right now

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I always get a kick out of reading the 9/11 "Truth" comments and the "controlled demolition" theories.

But by now, I would have thought that more people would have caught on to the real deal. Don't you realize that the U.S. (just like any nation) needed some sort of pretext to attack another nation? And sometimes, a few lives are required to be sacrificed in order to advance the bigger, more important motive. That's all 9/11 was, really.
Surely you don't think we could just go cowboying off to Afghanistan and Iraq without a huge primer to get the people behind the mission? And while it may seem heartless and cold, the reality is that these missions and primers cost lives sometimes. The people who died on 9/11 were sacrificed for the advancement of our nation and our nation will be forever in their debt. (I'll let you in on something - that's part of the reason the 9/11 victims' survivors received such huge amounts of money from the U.S. Government, as payment for their sacrifice. You'll notice the Katrina victims didn't receive any where close to the same level of treatment).

Think about it...

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When he said that it's not a fight between good and evil-- just a fight between 2 evils. Faith is the opposite of reason. It requires a positive suspension of reasoning faculties in order to thrive. Is there any reason to be surprised by the consequences of the clash of faiths? Trotting out these three men is a minute detail in the war between two evils.

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"I like your Christ.
I do not like your Christians.
Your Christians are so unlike your Christ."
Mohandas K. Ghandi

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Normally, I would be offering cold, calm analysis to the article and/or comments made on it. But this one touchs me so much to the core that I feel compelled to speak from my heart as opposed to my head for once.

I swear no allegiance to any organized religion. I take what is useful and truthful and discard the rest for the chains and cages I see them as. I was the subject of intense Christian conversion during my middle school years. Even then, my soul fought back. Even when I went through the so-called "saved" process three times from three different ministers, I didn't get it. After all these years, I think I finally understand why I never broke. I refused to give up my individuality and my personal moral code for the tyranny of my supposed "betters".

The Burning Times in the title refer to the various periods of history in which Christian authorities, having been the oppressed for so many centuries, turned on their oppressors with maximum bloodlust. The destruction of the Library of Alexandria...the Albeginisian Crusade against the Cathars...the sacking of Constantinople during the Fourth Crusade...Inquisitions in Spain and elsewhere...the Puritan oppression of the Massachusetts Bay Colony which led to the Salem Witch Trials...countless "unbelievers" were put to death in these times and places for going their own way. As someone told me recently, some people only think they're saving the world when they're busy slaughtering the heretics.

Do not think that because they are going after the Muslims today that the wolf will never hunt you. If you do nothing to speak out against the wall of lies and misinformation that those in power have spoonfed us over the last decade, I personally guarantee that it WILL be you next.

For those of you who are willing to stand up as I have, be advised that it is no shield of invulnerability. Be prepared to ridiculed, attacked, slandered, smeared, and possibly, at the extreme end of things, even jailed and/or killed. Actually standing up for a principle is frightening to most people. More than a few of that number will try to take you down.

So the question becomes: why do it at all? Every person must reach their own answer. But here's mine: I will always fight for my fellow human beings when they are oppressed by the planet's bullies. Just because I don't understand some of them does not give me or anybody else a license to start grinding them into sausage meat. As a friend of mine recently pointed out, the words "Muslim" and "terrorist" are not mutually dependent. For the people who never harmed anybody, who just wanted to live their lives as simply and quietly as possible, who loved their families and took care of them as best they could, who strove to make the world a better place for their communities and ultimately the rest of the planet...this one's for you.

Never Again The Burning Times.

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While I generally concur with the major themes of this article, the author fails to document some important allegations in order to make his story work. Perhaps he has painted his literary picture with too broad a brush. The result is a devalued contribution to an important discussion.

I do not follow all that these three promote publicly, but I do not think it wise to denounce all three as "frauds" without detailed, documented support for each charge. I am sure that some differences exist between their positions. When I find errors in regards to one, then I question the rest.

In regards to Zachariah Anani, I have heard him take public stances of non-violence on more than one occasion. He has been beaten numerous times almost to the point of death by Muslims unhappy with the direction of his scholarship. To my knowledge as of this date, all of the spurious charges against him of violent intent and behavior have dismissed in Canadian courts of law.

To be effective in making his living, Zachariah may be adamant as to his description of Muslim intent, but his recommended response and personal example is trust in Jesus without resort to personal violence. He has renounced that option after having pursued it as a Muslim with murderous results. His warnings of Muslim intent to conquer the world to non-religious, secular states obviously do not preclude military response, but as a deeply biblical Christian, he preaches non-violence and would encourage everyone to live that way.

I also have reviews several sources in Lebanon who document his life story. He is a Koranic scholar who can give detailed and accurate recitations and explanations to unrehearsed questions without advanced preparation. And it is no story that his life is worth nothing in Muslim-controlled areas because his demonstrably sincere conversion to faith in Jesus.

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All the religions fanatics and all ,would fight it out some day,and in their fucking selfishness take the rest of us with them!,If their were a god for these airheads to believe in I 'm sure thats what it would want,...yeah ''Peace on earth good will towards man''!! yep thats a good one,got any more??

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When we can maintain the same attitude toward ALL hate speech, regardless of which group is targeted, then we will have finally figured it out.

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comes out in so many of these comments. It seems like the Right, the Left, conservative Christians, Jihadist Muslims et al blame Jews and Israel for all of the ills of the world.

Hitler, Ahmajhinadad and others sing that same ugly tune.

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Chris, Are you saying that this book is about Christians wanting to kill Muslims?

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Every religionj has its fundamentalists. But the fundamentalists in the world's three largest monotheistic faiths are the world's most dangerous.

I wrote a lengthy article about this danger in my blog two years ago, in the midst of the exposion of fundamentalist Muslim rage over cartoons depicting the Prophet Mohammed in a Danish newspaper.

You can read it here (If the link fails, copy and paste it to the URL search window):

http://www.skeeterbitesreport.com/2005/12/
worlds-most-dangerous-disease.html

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This statement is correctly applied to the imperial nationalism that has afflicted this nation from its foundation:

"It implicitly condemns all who do not think as we think and believe as we believe as, at best, inferior and usually morally depraved. It blinds us to our own failings. It makes self-reflection and self-criticism a form of treason. It reduces the world to a cartoonish vision of us and them, good and evil. It turns us into children with bombs."

Religion may be used as a cover, but the fact is that toxic Americanism is the true problem we must deal with. This nation has been bent on expansion and imperialism from its foundation to today. It is the driving force just as it was for Rome or England in the past. Religion is a cover and a guise for the reality of imperialistic dreams of war, conquest and exploitation.

When anyone blames it on religion they are simply joining the propaganda machine of the imperialists. Doing so is to imagine that Julius and Octavian Caesar were driven by devotion to the goddess Roma rather than devotion to imperialism, expansion and exploitation. It is a foolish and dangerous mis-direction of our attention from the facts to a fiction too easily accepted by those who do not want to acknowledge that America has been in the wrong far more than it has been in the right during its history.

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Does Christianity allow us to kill in Jesus' name now? Especially if they're Muslim?
Not so fast! Why are the Christian Right so eager to target Muslims just because they may profess a claim to do this and that when we have no proof?
Has Christianity gone against the New Testament? The Ten Commandments? So it's okay if we liquidate a group of people for the suspicion of committing terrorist acts? Have they gone insane? So much for compassionate conservatism. Of course not all Christians will become headhunters. If so, we'll have blood on our hands. We'll turn this nation into a East Timor-style of liquidation. But let's pray we don't go ballistic and make this into an Emily Dickinson story.
There's danger ahead in the next episode.

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These guys are confessed terrorists and mass murderers. They should be declared enemy combatants, shipped to gitmo and TORTURED. And those who support them ("You're either with us or agin us (heh, heh)) should be, too. Tick, tick, tick... (Mush)BOOM! If only we had given them "a dunk in the water(sm)." Dead men by no petroleum products.

E Pleb Neesta
GODISNOWHERE
Blessed are the cheese makers.

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...many times and many ways, but I will add my agreement.

The problem is that any belief in any Invisible friend is the problem.

Be it Christian, Muslim, Jews, etc. etc. adnausium, as long as people believe in any God that cannot be proven to exist, their minds are doomed to a limit on what they will be allowed to learn and all growth stops.

Albeit, Christians have the most genocidal rule book in history, the Bibble, and have behaved accordingly, I would not give a rats ass for anyone that says they are religious or "God fearing people." If anything, THEY are to be feared for their inanity.

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"while the Israeli air force was dropping tens of thousands of pounds of iron fragmentation bombs up and down Lebanon, an air campaign that killed 1,300 Lebanese civilians."

I seem to remember that this was in response to thousands of rockets continually being rained down on Israeli civilian population centers on a daily basis by the Hezbollah terrorists and it was done by Israel to mitigate the capability of the Hezbollah murderers who were continually attacking Israeli while hiding their their rocket launchers and themselves among their own Lebanese civilians while these murdering terrorists used the rocket launchers to rain death indiscriminately on civilians in Israeli towns.

Sorry - but the Israelis were only attempting to stop the rain of Hezbollah rockets from killing Israeli civilians the best they could, and considering the outcome of the "war", the Israelis showed way too much constraint!

The Lebanese civilians were warned to leave, and they did not. They supported Hezbollah.
Israel was not wrong in responding, in fact, the only thing they did wrong was they did not respond heavily enough!

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For awhile now I nhave been thinking that peoples propensity for fsacist thought seems to be much more organic than their propensity for rational and "fair " debate . I think it is a reflex of the collective when it is stressed . We have been here before with horrendous consequences , but yet again it seems to be on the rise . Take for exammple the fact that the movest viewed website of any political party in the UK is the BNP . A group of total low life scum who seem not to be too bothered to hide the fact that Hitler was a great guy ...and any how the holocaust never really happened !
The ability of people to mix and match whatever snippets of history with what they want things to be never ceases to amaze me .What emerges is a collage of bits and pieces that are pasted together then given a sprinkling of 'we the victims' and 'we the morally good'...and hay presto we have a theoretical basis and justification to kill on mass.

What is driving this ? a system that is pitting one against the other in the market place .A system that in its persuit of profit is ripping up communities and driving people to compete for the wages out there for which there are probably 50 or more would be applicants .
If we want to defeat fascism we have to stabilise world economy and with global warming this is going to be even harder to achieve.accomplish .

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