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Rights and Liberties

Give Them Death: Three Leading Democratic Candidates Support Capital Punishment

By Liliana Segura, AlterNet. Posted January 25, 2008.


Opposing the death penalty used to distinguish Democrats from Republicans. Now, across party lines, death is just another day at the office.
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When Clinton, Obama and Edwards took the stage before a mostly African-American crowd in Myrtle Beach, S.C., on Monday night, they came brimming with concern for the plight of black America. From the disproportionate effects of the subprime loan crisis to the racially drawn pitfalls of U.S. healthcare, the black community, said Edwards, "is hurt worse by poverty than any community in America. And it's our responsibility, not just for the African-American community, but for America, as a nation, to take on this moral challenge."

Politicians like to see moral challenges when it's convenient. The candidates have labeled the war in Iraq, global warming and the economy "moral challenges" before various audiences in the past few months. But there's one topic the leading Dems systematically exclude from their morality crusade, one that begged to be addressed before an African-American audience in a Southern state: the death penalty.

It's not news that African-Americans are disproportionately represented on death row. While 12 percent of the country is African-American, more than 40 percent of the country's death row population is black -- and although blacks and whites are murder victims in nearly equal numbers, 80 percent of the prisoners executed since the death penalty was reinstated were convicted for murders in which the victim was white. Study upon study in states across the country have discovered racial bias at every stage of the death penalty process, including one that found that the more "stereotypically black" a defendant is perceived to be, the more likely that person is to be sentenced to death. Add to that the fact that over 20 percent of black defendants who have been executed were convicted by all-white juries, and the racial reality of the death penalty becomes impossible to ignore.

Sure, all three candidates have given nod to our racist criminal justice system from time to time. At the South Carolina debate, Barack Obama acknowledged it as "something that we have to talk about," specifically, the fact that "African-Americans and whites ... are arrested at very different rates, are convicted at very different rates [and] receive very different sentences." Edwards, speaking out on the case of the Jena 6, last fall, said, "As someone who grew up in the segregated South, I feel a special responsibility to speak out on racial intolerance." Even Hillary has labeled the incarceration boom that followed passage of her husband's crime bill -- for which she lobbied hard -- "unacceptable." When it comes to criminal justice, she said in Iowa, "I want to have a thorough review of all of the penalties."

Still, not one leading Democrat is about to make criminal justice reform -- let alone the death penalty -- central to his or her platform.

Clinton, Obama and Edwards all support capital punishment. It's a position you'd be hard pressed to find on their websites, and they might not be bragging about it the way they might have in, say, 2000. Or 1996. Or 1992, the year their party's pro-death penalty stance was codified in its official party platform and then-presidential candidate Bill Clinton made a campaign trail detour to Arkansas, where he presided over the execution of mentally damaged prisoner Ricky Ray Rector. Nevertheless, all three hold on to their pro-death penalty stance, as have virtually all leading Democrats running for office in the past 20 years.

Why so much longstanding support for capital punishment? It is the easiest way to combat the quadrennial charge that Democrats are "soft on crime."

Opposing the death penalty used to be one way for Democrats to distinguish themselves from their rivals on the campaign trail -- at least before Michael Dukakis was lampooned after a 1988 debate in which he failed to wax bloodthirsty when asked if he'd want to execute a theoretical rapist/murderer if the victim was his wife, Kitty. The years that followed saw the Democrats cozy up to capital punishment: The Clinton era brought a sweeping expansion of the federal death penalty, thanks to the Crime Bill, and a sharp cut in death row appeals, thanks to the Anti-Terrorism and Effective Death Penalty Act. State executions spiked in the late '90s, more than doubling between 1996 and 1999.

But times have changed. Since 2000, executions have been in steady decline, and not because of the Democratic Party establishment. The Supreme Court has outlawed the execution of mentally retarded persons and prisoners convicted as juveniles; a revolution in DNA testing has put wrongful convictions on the front pages of newspapers nationwide; and in December, New Jersey became the first state in the country to pass legislation abolishing the death penalty in 40 years. Currently, executions are stalled altogether, as states await a ruling in the landmark Supreme Court case Baze v. Rees, which examines lethal injection as it is carried out in 36 states.

Given the climate, you would think the time is ripe for the Dems to reconsider the death penalty -- perhaps even dust it off as a way to differentiate themselves from the Republicans this November.

You would be wrong.

Obama, Edwards and Clinton have remained practically mute about the death penalty in the past few months, reiterating their support only when asked -- and giving heavily qualified answers. Take Obama, for starters. In a 2004 debate against Alan Keyes, his opponent in the race for U.S. Senate, Obama declared that "there are extraordinarily heinous crimes -- terrorism, the harm of children -- in which [the death penalty] may be appropriate." "We have to have this ultimate sanction in certain circumstances," he said. "I think it's important that we preserve that." Obama repeated his stance in his 2006 memoir, The Audacity of Hope, where he invoked crimes "so heinous ... that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage."

On the campaign trail, Obama has continued to characterize the death penalty as a necessary evil, while also boasting about his role in trying to perfect it. "I am somebody who led on reforming a death penalty system that was broken in Illinois -- that nobody thought was good politics, but was the right thing to do," he said on the night of the South Carolina debate.

In fact, it was good politics. Obama's primary role in his much-touted death penalty reform was a successful push to videotape police interrogations in a state where violently coerced confessions had sent at least 13 men to death row. Republican Gov. George Ryan -- who actually co-chaired execution kingpin George W. Bush's first election campaign -- had had a moratorium in place since January 2000. By the time Obama's legislation passed, four innocent men had already been pardoned -- and Ryan had emptied Illinois' death row. In fact, before the scandal of Illinois' death penalty system broke -- a scandal born in police interrogation rooms on Chicago's South Side, where Obama had been a community organizer -- Obama seemed happy to bolster capital punishment in his state. As a freshly elected state senator in 1997, he voted to expand the death penalty to include the murderers of senior citizens or the disabled. If the Democrats were truly outraged at the injustice of the American justice system, Obama would face serious questions about his support of state-sanctioned murder and not about what went up his nose decades ago.

Today, the Obama camp likes to paint its man as anti-death penalty with a few exceptions. "Obama opposes the death penalty except for terrorists, serial killers and child-murderers," two reporters wrote in the Hill last spring, "but his campaign added that he does not support the death penalty as it is currently administered in this country."

Or, as one blogger wrote last year, "In a nutshell: He's pro-death penalty, but he is also pro-let's not execute the wrong guy."

Who isn't "pro-let's not execute the wrong guy"?

If Obama's Chicago years dampened his support for the death penalty, one would think Edwards' Senate tenure and time in the courtroom would have turned him off to the death penalty altogether. His years in office saw the exonerations of three death row prisoners from North Carolina's death row, a 2001 study finding deep racial bias in the state's death penalty system, and a historic vote in 2003 that would make the state senate the first legislative body in the South to pass moratorium legislation. Yet he held on to his support for the death penalty.

When Edwards was asked at the Yearly Kos convention last summer to reconcile his "two Americas" rhetoric with support of a punishment that disproportionately condemns poor people of color to die (full disclosure: I was the questioner), Edwards gave a lengthy answer that, boiled down, called for death to killers of children. More recently, on NPR's Talk of the Nation, responding to a caller concerned about his support for capital punishment, Edwards acknowledged the racial bias, the problem of wrongful convictions, unequal legal representation -- he even talked about the trouble with "death qualified juries." Nevertheless, he defended his pro-death penalty stance.

And then there's Hillary. Perhaps even more than Obama or Edwards, Hillary has avoided discussing capital punishment on the campaign trail. As a senator representing a state that got rid of the death penalty during her tenure, at the same time that the Ashcroft and Gonzales-led Department of Justice sought to prosecute more federal capital cases in New York, Hillary has had precious little to say about the death penalty in the past few years. She supports it, of course -- has for years -- and she, like her opponents, also supports "reforms." In 2003, she co-sponsored the Innocence Protection Act, to make DNA testing available for individuals sentenced to death under federal law. Penance, perhaps, for having helped to curtail death row appeals in the '90s.

Regardless of who gets the Democratic nomination, the death penalty is certain to be off the table in the general election, where tough talk on terrorism will trump domestic criminal justice policy discussions. "I doubt that candidates from either side will raise the death penalty issue, though it might come up as a question," says Richard Dieter, executive director of the Death Penalty Information Center. "Because this issue has become so multisided, each position on the death penalty has drawbacks. If you support it, you have to admit its flaws. If you oppose it, you may not raise it for fear of being out of the mainstream."

As opposition to state-sanctioned killing becomes more and more mainstream, however, the Democrats should be able to muster the courage to come out against it too. But there's no sign that that is a "moral challenge" they are ready to take on. Rather, the pro-death penalty, pro-"reform" stance occupied by Obama, Edwards and Clinton is little more than a gift to capital punishment supporters who claim the machinery of death just needs some fine-tuning.

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See more stories tagged with: hillary, clinton, obama, death penalty, edwards, capital punishment, presidential primary, south carolina

Liliana Segura is an AlterNet staff writer and editor of the Rights & Liberties section.

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Pro Life and Pro Abortion
Posted by: SENILEBIKER on Jan 25, 2008 12:18 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is it that the religious right who professes to be pro life is also the same group that demands the death penalty.

You can argue at which point a single cell evolves into viable human being, bu t you cannot dispute that the people executed are living people.

There is some thing fundamentally wrong with the US culture that allows it to be at or near the top of the world rankings for murder, executions, gun ownership etc.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Pro Life and Pro Abortion Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» The value of life Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: The value of life Posted by: Intellect
» RE: The value of life Posted by: davesilvan
» RE: The value of life Posted by: coldestcaress
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: smithbr
» RE: Depends on what sexist you read Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: davesilvan
» No! Pro Choice Means... Posted by: mstenger
» Is life really a choice? Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: davesilvan
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Is life really a choice? Posted by: dmaciewski
» RE: Depends on what you read Posted by: coldestcaress
» RELIGION Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: Christianity, consistency, and Ron Paul Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» Ron Paul and Daffy Duck! Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Pro Life and Pro Abortion Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Pro Life and Pro Abortion Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Pro Life and Pro Abortion Posted by: neilemac
What Is Old Is New Again
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 25, 2008 1:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been said that you can tell a lot about a person (or culture) by how it treats those most vulnerable- the people at the margins. Based upon how America votes and how it treats it's poor, it's people of color, it's uneducated, it's children, the sick, the disabled and it's elderly; I am ashamed of my native land.

We incarcerate far more of our people than any other 'developed' nation, tens of millions of working poor live in sub-standard housing, we lack universal healthcare, our public education system is (as a system) in shambles, predatory creditors prowl like lions on the savannah, and our government entices the young adults of the working class into the military to fight for oil and empire.

Is this any way to run a country. Is this any way to treat people? What does our collective assent to the 'bootstrap' myth and economic darwinism say about us as a nation?

What it tells me is that we are a hard hearted & greedy nation, where the 'I've got mine' mentality rules.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Adendum Posted by: NoPCZone
» RE: Adendum Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Adendum Posted by: drmeow
» RE: I am ashamed of my native land? Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Terrorist
Posted by: HeKnew on Jan 25, 2008 1:32 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Bush administration: try 'em & fry 'em.

A Vote of Confidence Amendment will enable the American voting public to dismiss and hold over for criminal prosecution any elected official who fails in their obligation to serve the people of the United States.

VOCA, now

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Terrorist. A Vote of Confidence Amendment Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Cry for Our Nation
Posted by: Jbuuty on Jan 25, 2008 2:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I seriously don't know what else to do. Our country is ill. I think part of it comes from thinking of ourselves as the center of the world. That sort of arrogance brings all kinds of disease.

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» RE: Cry for Our Nation Posted by: carbon-based
» RE: Cry for Our Nation Posted by: Lauren
» That sort of arrogance... Posted by: Cathyc
If Killing is Wrong, then Killing is Wrong. Period.
Posted by: thornwolf on Jan 25, 2008 3:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm constantly amazed by righteously indignant pseudo-Christians who clamor for the death penalty for those guilty of capital crime.

Whom would Jesus execute?

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Wrong thinking
Posted by: saltoafronteira on Jan 25, 2008 3:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To all the anti-cristian comments above, let me tell you something: christians are against death penalty, as well as abortion, almost all over the world execept, of course, in america.
So, I think that's an american problem, not a christian one.
By the way, christian civilizations where the one and only to question death penalty, and start abolishing it.
Christian organizations where, usually, at the core of anti-death penalty movements where they appeared, the same way they where behind the anti slavery movement.
Non christian civilizations (islamic, chinese, african and so on) clearly accept death penalty and dont even question it.
I am not particularly religious but I hate injustice. And injustice is being done over on that matter.
The XVI century inquisition is long gone and the american extremist christians are the way they are because they are american and not because they are christian.

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» RE: Wrong thinking Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Wrong thinking Posted by: saltoafronteira
» RE: Veiled Attack Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: Veiled Attack Posted by: saltoafronteira
Like apple pie
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 25, 2008 3:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We're a bloodthirsty bunch. The polls continue to support it as far as I know. For any mainstream candidate not to support the death penalty these days would be political suicide.

I'm against the death penalty, except in certain cases of cell phone use, people who take up two parking spaces, and people who block the aisle with their shopping cart.

FYI: This has some interesting graphs on the demographics:
http://www.deathpenaltyinfo.org/article.php?did=1266&scid=

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death penalty support
Posted by: dudleysharp on Jan 25, 2008 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is not difficult to understand why many, including politicians, would support the death penalty for terrorism or child murders.

80% of Americans, including me, support the death penalty for those specific crimes.

I support the death penalty as a just and appropriate sentencing option for some crimes. I also support is because innocents are more protected with it than without it.
 
Living murderers, in prison, after escape or after our failures to incarcerate them, are much more likely to harm and murder, again, than are executed murderers.
 
No knowledgeable and honest party questions that the death penalty has the most extensive due process protections in US criminal law.

Therefore, actual innocents are more likely to be sentenced to life imprisonment and more likely to die in prison serving under that sentence, that it is that an actual innocent will be executed.
 
16 recent studies, inclusive of their defenses,  find for death penalty deterrence.
 
A surprise? No.

Life is preferred over death. Death is feared more than life.
 
Some believe that all studies with contrary findings negate those 16 studies. They don't. Studies which don't find for deterrence don't say no one is deterred, but that they couldn't measure those deterred.
 
What prospect of a negative outcome doesn't deter some?

There isn't one . . . although committed anti death penalty folk may say the death penalty is the only one.
 
The evidence is  compelling and un refuted  that death is feared more than life.
 
Some death penalty opponents argue against death penalty deterrence, stating that it's a harsher penalty to be locked up without any possibility of getting out.
 
Reality paints a very different picture.
 
What percentage of capital murderers seek a plea bargain to a death sentence? Zero or close to it. They prefer long term imprisonment.
 
What percentage of convicted capital murderers argue for execution in the penalty phase of their capital trial? Zero or close to it. They prefer long term imprisonment.
 
What percentage of death row inmates waive their appeals and speed up the execution process? Nearly zero. They prefer long term imprisonment.
 
This is not, even remotely, in dispute.
 
Life is preferred over death. Death is feared more than life.
 
Furthermore, history tells us that "lifers" have many ways to get out: Pardon, commutation, escape, clerical error, change in the law, etc..

In choosing to end the death penalty, or in choosing not implement it, some have chosen to spare murderers at the cost of sacrificing more innocent lives.
 
--------
 
Furthermore, possibly we have sentenced 20-25 actually innocent people to death since 1973, or 0.3% of those so sentenced. Those have been released upon post conviction review. There is no proof of an innocent executed in the US, at least since 1900.

Of all the government programs in the world, that put innocents at risk, is there one with a safer record and with greater protections than the US death penalty?
 
Unlikely.
 
Dudley Sharp,

(I am former opponent of capital punishment, he who has written and granted interviews about, testified on and debated the subject of the death penalty, extensively and internationally.)
 

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» RE: death penalty support Posted by: Democritus
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: Cathyc
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: SENILEBIKER
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: Democritus
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: Democritus
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: unblocktheplanet
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: leland61
» RE: death penalty support Posted by: desidid
Let him who is without sin cast the first stone
Posted by: vssmith on Jan 25, 2008 4:00 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obviously Huckabee, Bush, Clinton and others felt they were sinless.

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» Lame Posted by: James T. Swaggart
The absolute trust in US law is scarry.
Posted by: colinmeister on Jan 25, 2008 4:47 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have heard the views of many death penalty supporters. The usual response of these people is a cry for revenge in the form of the blood of someone found guilty of a murder.

The main concern, to me, is that there have been executions carried out where the person executed has posthumously been shown to be innocent of the crime.

Until the day when the legal system is poven to be infallable, i.e. never, I could never support the death penalty.

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» Give me a break. Posted by: James T. Swaggart
Legal violence
Posted by: Democritus on Jan 25, 2008 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rap Brown said it in the '60s: "Violence is as American as cherry pie." Although there are lots of pious mouthings about how capital punishment is a "fitting" response to certain crimes, or how it deters others from committing these crimes, the fact is that these pseudo-defenses in support of the death penalty just mask a desire for revenge. In order to prevent ordinary citizens from taking revenge on a perpetrator, the state steps in and commits legal violence. It's less messy that way.

Therefore, it's no surprise that our leading presidential candidates won't criticize the death penalty. That's because most Americans are a vengeful, bloodthirsty lot (as witness our initial support of Bush's invasion of Afghanistan and Iraq); and our politicians are just a reflection of ourselves.

Only when our country becomes genuinely civilized, and not just when it wears the veneer of civility, will we finally join more enlightened countries, such as Turkey, and insist that our leaders abolish the death penalty.

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» RE: Legal violence Posted by: Lauren
PROUD TO BE "PRO-LIFE"
Posted by: drricklippin on Jan 25, 2008 5:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a physician who has consistently opposed the death penalty both as a physician and a US citizen.

The state should never take a life given it is the ultimate power it can exercise over its citizens. It is both immoral and very freightening to invest so much power in the government.

I call myself "pro-life" in this regard even though I object to those who oppose abortion falsely co-opting this term many decades ago.

I call on all the presidential candidates to rescue the term "pro-life" and apply it to those citizens who are already born!(Not born again!-Once is enough!)

Dr. Rick Lippin
Southampton,Pa
http://medicalcrises.blogspot.com

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» RE: PROUD TO BE "PRO-LIFE" Posted by: snarlah
» RE: PROUD TO BE "PRO-LIFE" Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: PROUD TO BE "PRO-LIFE" Posted by: Lauren
All 3 Democratic candidates favor death penalty
Posted by: snarlah on Jan 25, 2008 6:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was not going to vote for Hillary no matter what happens, because she's part of the reason that the corporations run America today.

When I found out that both Obama and Edwards favored the death penalty also, I was without anyone I actually want to vote for. Now what?

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» The Solution Is At Hand!!! Posted by: danielgeery
Where are the gun toters and misnamed "pro-lifers" on this issue?
Posted by: maxpayne on Jan 25, 2008 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Oh yeah, I forgot. They blindly follow their "masters" who in return FUCK them to DEATH with fucked up economic and foreign policies.

If anyone should be getting the DEATH penalty, it would be Corporate America for mass poisoning, defrauding, send us in harm's way, etc ...

Yes, this country is in TERRI SCHIAVO status what with Saudi Arabia and China giving it "life support" but there has to come a time when the citizens in those countries will stand up to their oppressive gubbmints and declare "ENOUGH IS ENOUGH !!!!" And then the feeding tube will be pulled.

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Betty1950
Posted by: Betty1950 on Jan 25, 2008 7:06 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Democrat & I also support the death penalty as long as there is no doubt the person is guilty. Such as DNA evidence. When I hear people whining about how lethal injection may cause pain for the poor guy being executed I want to scream. What about their victim(s)? What about THEIR suffering? So the person who was sentenced to death may suffer a bit - BOO HOO! I think their victim(s) probably suffered more.

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» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: Rod
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: bornxeyed
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: leland61
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Betty1950 Posted by: Romantic Violence
Clinton, Obama and Edwards are Racists
Posted by: michaelo on Jan 25, 2008 7:44 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
by
Michael O’McCarthy

Racist:
1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
2. a policy, system of government, etc., based upon or fostering such a doctrine; discrimination.
3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

[Origin: 1865–70; < F racisme. See race2, -ism] —Related forms racist, noun, adjective - Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

Within the historic culture of the United States, calling a person a racist is akin to accusing them of murder – or conspiring to murder, or accessory to murder. Racist murder began with the genocide directed at the Native peoples of what is called the USA. It continued in the slave institutions in both the Southern and Northern states. It ranged from throwing Africans off slave ships to avoid detection en route to the states, the practices of Slavocracy in holding them prisoner, the waves of lynching in the post-Civil War period through the 1960s.

At its core however, has always been the use of capital punishment – state sanctioned executions – which victimized people of color disproportional to the “white” population. These racist practices continue by using the correctional industrial complex as a means of managing the communities where the majority of the population (2/3rds) is of people of color, principally, African and Hispanic American. The final means of this racist control is murder at the hands of the state, or state sanctioned, institutional murder.

Death Row race statistics as of 2006:

BLACK: 1,411 (41.9%) --- yet they are less than 20% of the population.
HISPANIC: 354 (10.5%)
WHITE: 1,527 (45.3%)
OTHER: 78 (2.3%)

The majority is on death row charged with killing a “white” person.


In the primary race in South Carolina Clinton, Obama and Edwards appeared in the Black Caucus debate. Each were “sensitized” to the status of African Americans. Throughout the campaign each has reached out to the Hispanic community. Each has advisors from those demographics. Ignorance is no excuse for these professional members of the state. It becomes then, very simple: any person, civilian or politician who supports state sanctioned institutional murder is supportive of “a policy, system of government … based upon or fostering such a doctrine.” Welcome to the Democratic Party’s Corporate State by these “agents of change!”

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"Politicians like to see moral challenges when it's convenient."
Posted by: jimidee on Jan 25, 2008 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is so convenient about the war in Iraq, health care, economy, etc.? Come'on, these are much tougher issues to tackle than whether we kill a few cold-blooded killers. I have a tough time seeing the death penalty as a racial issue anyway...you do the crime and you do the time, or lack thereof. I see no problem with killing those where there is indisputable evidence that they did the crime.

Hell, overpopulation is the major problem that we have today, and it threatens our very human existence. Nearly all of our other problems can be connected to overpopulation, either directly or indirectly. Weed out the bad ones and we are nothing but better off. This position may not be politically correct, but hey, at least those bastards will not be killing anybody else.

It is actually more humane than locking them up and throwing away the key.

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It's time to put things in perspective
Posted by: audiodef on Jan 25, 2008 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is yet another reason for me to distance myself from the Democratic party. While still registered as a Democrat, I am probably never going to register as such again. Once upon a time, Republicans were the progressives (Lincoln), then the Democrats took on that job, and now it's the independents, Greens and other parties that are more progressive than Dems and Reps. Gravel and Kucinich are opposed to the death penalty, and although they are on the Democratic ticket, they are more like independents than Democrats and are not taken as seriously as they should be. As in every election ever held in this country, at least since the 20th century, we've had a few people say "Hey! Over here! We can fix this!" and when everyone voted the other way, they ended up being right. The death penalty will be no exception to this trend. When will people learn?

Opposing the death penalty does not make one "soft on crime". "Soft on crime" is more accurately defined as lax policies towards criminal proceedings, insufficient funding to adequately train and recruit good police officers, using favoritism to select judges, and other such truly "soft on crime" behaviors.

As far as Hillary Clinton now opposing the Crime Bill that she once supported, this makes her even weaker as a candidate. It tells me that she will use the current political pulse to further her own ends, rather than taking a stand on what she truly believes. Even if I disagree with someone, I can respect her if she stands her ground (albeit in a respectful and reasonable manner) even if her President spouse supports something she doesn't believe in.

The fact that the Supreme Court has finally outlawed the execution of the mentally handicapped tells us that it is time for a change (actually, it has always been morally wrong, but it's good that the Supreme Court is leading the way on this issue). Let us extend that thought here. Is someone who is capable of killing another someone who is mentally firm? Have you ever agreed with a murderer who calmly and rationally explained his behavior as being the right thing to do under the circumstances (we're not talking about killing in self-defense, mind you)? All homicides (distinguished from manslaughter) should be treated as cases of mental incapacitation, as someone capable of killing in cold blood is not a healthy-minded person. This then makes capital punishment immoral.

Capital punishment is also hypocritical. We bring a murderer to court because killing another human being is wrong. What message are we sending by then killing that person? I know that if someone, God forbid, kills my partner, I am going to want blood. I cannot claim I will be above a strong desire to kill the bas***d. It might give me momentary satisfaction to get this type of revenge. It doesn't make it, or me, right.

Obama is truly a very scary figure when he writes about "crimes so heinous ... that the community is justified in expressing the full measure of its outrage". This does not sound like the calm, measured view of a strong, peaceful leader. This sounds like - dare I say it - one of the terrorists this country is supposedly "at war" with. When you watch a movie in which a community expresses it outrage by publicly and coldly killing a human being, regardless of what that person has done, you are viewing an act of primordial barbarism. Do you really want people to think of you that way?

I would not want the state killing in my name. I would want, as much as possible, for my killer to live with what he did wrong and to reach higher enlightenment about what it means to be human. That would at least give my death more meaning. To simply kill my killer would dishonor my own death.

More on this comment at http://moody-rants.livejournal.com/18493.html

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» RE: It's time to put things in perspective Posted by: left_libertarian
Paul Cardwell
Posted by: Paul Cardwell on Jan 25, 2008 8:29 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That leaves voting for the Green Party who does have opposition to state murder as not only a plank in their platform, but one of the requirements for being a Green Party in whatever country.

Voting for "the lesser of two evils" always involves voting for evil.

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Democrats in Name Only
Posted by: Turiye on Jan 25, 2008 8:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
» RE: No, they ARE the Democrats Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Democrats in Name Only Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Democrats in Name Only Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: Democrats in Name Only Posted by: dmaciewski
capital punishment
Posted by: vasumurti on Jan 25, 2008 8:55 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In a pamphlet entitled The Death Penalty: Cruel & Inhuman Punishment, Amnesty International USA reports that "the United States is the only western industrial nation which still practices capital punishment."

Moreover, the death penalty does not deter violent crime:

"Most people who murder do not see beyond their action; they kill quickly in moments of great fear or emotional stress and under the influence of drugs or alcohol. When the crime is premeditated, the individual rarely believes he or she will be apprehended or executed…in 1976, the United States Supreme Court found no conclusive evidence that the death penalty deters violent crime. The United Nations came to similar conclusions."

According to Amnesty International USA, capital punishment tends to discriminate against minorities and the poor. In the United States since 1972, over 65 percent of the people on death row have been unskilled, service, or domestic workers, while 60 percent were unemployed at the time of their crimes.

"In the United States," reports Amnesty International USA, "blacks and other minorities face a much greater likelihood of execution than whites similarly charged...The victim’s race still factors heavily in determining the offender’s punishment. In Texas, blacks who kill whites are six times more likely to receive the death sentence than those with black victims. In Florida, black offenders who murder whites are forty times more likely than whites who kill blacks to end up on death row."

Responding to the concept of "an eye for an eye," Amnesty International USA asks, "If capital punishment is appropriate because it takes a life for a life, why doesn’t the government also burn the arsonist’s home and rape the rapist? Because justice does not mean punishment that imitates the crime." Amnesty International USA states further that the death penalty costs more than life imprisonment.

United States Supreme Court Justice Thurgood Marshall once observed: "The death penalty is no more effective a deterrent than life imprisonment… While police and law enforcement officials are the strongest advocates of capital punishment, the evidence is overwhelming that police are no safer in communities that retain the sanction than in those that have abolished it. It also is evident that the burden of capital punishment falls upon the poor, the ignorant, and the underprivileged members of society."

United States Supreme Court Justice William Brennan once argued against capital punishment, saying, "The calculated killing of a human being involves, by its very nature, an absolute denial of the executed person's humanity."

Justice Brennan claimed the 8th Amendment bans "cruel and unusual punishment." Yet the 5th Amendment refers to "capital or otherwise infamous crime" and says no person "shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law."

This clearly implies that persons can be deprived of their right to life, but only under due process of law. Capital punishment, therefore, is constitutional, and, ultimately, the only way death penalty opponents can correct this apparent injustice is through a Constitutional Amendment.

Attacking capital punishment, the early church father Cyprian, Bishop of Carthage, wrote: "Christians are not allowed to kill, it is not permitted for the guiltless to put even the guilty to death."

Religious leaders throughout the world have taken a stand against capital punishment. Leading Jewish organizations, Protestant denominations, and the United States Catholic Bishops Conference all oppose the death penalty.

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» RE: "western industrial nation" Posted by: Democritus
New England Journal of Medicine editorial against physician participation in lethal injection
Posted by: fanny666 on Jan 25, 2008 9:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well worth reading, let me know if the link does not work for everyone.

Physicians and Execution

Perspective Rountable on the issue.

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Death penalty doesn't work
Posted by: militaryhater on Jan 25, 2008 10:05 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
People still kill and sometimes because of what is called 'Passion killing'. That is you don't think you just react. So most people tend to kill and then, well, realize what they have done after the fact.

The death penalty hasn't really detered murder and this 'passion' and 'in the heat of the moment' killing continues. The Death penalty is expensive as people on Death row will appeal over and over costing us Tax payers tons of money. I am against the Death penalty as it doesn't work, it is barbaric and too costly.

I agree, Christians are hypocrites. The Bible says...'Thou shall not kill' but yet they are for it. I guess Christians choose and pick the passages that best suit their thinking. Afterall, they are righteous beyond all others and are going to heaven. If you are a non-believer, you are going to hell. Simple minds with Simple thinking....Opium for the Masses. Religious people are the most evil of all. They kill for righteousness. They are against all who will not assimilate to their religion. Look at history...especially the Vatican and their hired trained 'Crusader' killers and of course their Inquisition of people. They have killed many people that threatened Catholicism and it's beliefs. The Vatican's hands are caked in a history of blood and they are still lording over the masses. Amazing the resilience of the Vatican, and the power they seem to have over the people, leaders and countries.

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Death Penalty and Poverty
Posted by: antsy on Jan 25, 2008 10:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not agree with the death penalty for many reasons, the biggest one being that many innocent people have been executed only to be found innocent after their death. Poverty is everywhere in all communities. I think that the presidential candidates should all see what poverty really is.
The hypocrisy is so very evident, check out www.hypocrisy.com to see what I mean, in many if not all, of the candidates.
I have no respect for many of our candidates which is going to make voting this election hard.

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» Who Posted by: reevolve
» RE: Who Posted by: VZEQICVA
Minorities Are Very Underrepresented In American Courts
Posted by: joseph_b26 on Jan 25, 2008 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mostly Blacks and Hispanics serve as testament to a different type of justice within our court system.Because they lack the funding to obtain a good lawyer, and the usual appointed lawyer is fresh out of school, the best most of them can do is plea their cases at the mercy of the courts -- guilty or not.

From child support to capital punishment, minorities take what the prosecutor feels is fair. Seldom is their a "Parry Meason" like hearing to make a decision on the merits of the case.

In the case of child support, this government has taken a "one side" approach that only acknowledge women as victims. Without a day in court, teenagers who have children learn as they enter the job market, they are already thousands of dollars in debt for back child support. The sad thing about this is most of what America knows of child support is a image of some rich white male making over 200 thousand dollars a year who evaded paying a dime in child support. Well, the truth is more like young teenage male who carelessly avoided being responsible for baring a child, much like the teenage girl. They are far from being rich. In the teenage male's case, the government would apply principle and interest far more then the actual support claim. This bill will follow the teenager for most of his adult life, if not all of it. All this hype about dead beat dads is not being told in fairness.

In the case of plea bargaining, if you don't have a dime to your name, you have to plea out to avoid receiving the high end of punishment for what you are being charged for. Making things worse is being locked up and having to wait until you go to court before you see the light of day. By the time the appointed lawyer comes around with any deal, you are more then happy to take it especially if it means getting out of jail. Rich people bail out and are not faced with being in jail until court day.

As long as our core legal system has these disadvantages for minorities, capital punishment or any kind of punishment will be applied on an unequal bases.

Joseph

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Statistics on Murders by Guns around the World
Posted by: militaryhater on Jan 25, 2008 10:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here are some interesting Statistics gathered by this web site whose mission is to "To promote education and understanding about the world. To make it easy to engage with the indicators that shape global commerce, health, politics and ecology. To make the facts easily accessible and meaningful. To bring the works of academics, public agencies and private researchers to a wider audience."

Go to this site and keyword search it: Murders with firearms (most recent) by country:
http://www.nationmaster.com/index.php

Alternet wouldn't let me put the full URL from this site so I picked up this same list on another web site:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/21670/Crime-Statistics-Murders

It is interesting to note the US is 4th in the list.

My thoughts..we are a culture of War mongering. We breed hate through war which breeds a society leaning toward crime and violence. As long as we continue to be for War and oppression of other countries to promote our economy..(selling our goods and forcing our way of life to promote our ecomomy and keep Capitalism afloat), we will have the Death Penalty. Does Capitalism breed violence, a self centeredness, greed? Sad to say, A nation for War is a nation that will never be for peace, nor will we ever get rid of the Death penalty. Can we have just have Capitalism and obtain peace? Social issues, and caring for others keeps us centered..so maybe, a mixture of both Capitalism and Socialism in our government would be best?

Another site of interest and connected to nationmaster.com lists violent crime by state in our country.

http://www.statemaster.com/graph/cri_vio_cri-crime-violent

Texas is pretty high on the list even with the Death Penalty and the most executions. The Death Penalty there, doesn't seem to deter violent crime at all. So, again, the Death Penalty is a waste of time and not the answer. Maybe getting rid of a culture of War is the answer...a new Dawn for a Culture of Peace is a start.

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"Her husband's crime bill for which she lobbied hard"?
Posted by: Sojourner on Jan 25, 2008 11:10 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because B. Clinton gets blamed for every bill he signed that was sent to him repeatedly by a GOP congress, I am unwilling to accept such a statement without at least a hyperlink to a confirming site.

Some journalists write as if they expected B. Clinton to have vetoed every bill sent to him in order to escape blame from the Gingrich abominations. E.g., blaming Clinton for NAFTA which he vetoed twice.

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» Get real. Posted by: Sojourner
I totally support the death penalty
Posted by: weslen1 on Jan 25, 2008 11:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If beating, raping, and burying a LITTLE GIRL ALIVE, is not worthy of the death penalty, then you might as well not have laws at all. People like that guy don't deserve their 3 meals a day, and a lifetime of free medical, dental and vision care.

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The Death Penalty: An Expression of the Failure of American Culture and Society
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 25, 2008 12:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those who support the death penalty like to point to the horrendous crimes that some human beings in America commit. But, what they forget to mention is that many of these same human beings are so mentally disturbed or deranged that they are the very same people who often beg to be executed. Just why is it that America has by far, the largest percentage (per population) of violent crimes anyway? Why is it that America has so many in prison? Now if you go to the Social Democracies of Western Europe you find a much less divide between the rich and the poor, and you also find universally accessible medical and mental health care. And, you also find a much lower rate of violent crime and incarceration. But, in America, we seem to never make the connection. We are so busy assessing blame and holding people "accountable" that we cannot give them a decent job and adequate health care. Is it any wonder we have such problems?

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hackbut
Posted by: hackbut on Jan 25, 2008 12:36 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Ms. Segura's piece where she mentions the rate of incarceraton of Blacks she fails to mention that Blacks are 13% of the population yet commit 50% of the crime, so they are incarcerated at around the proper rate.

As to the death penalty, the bottom line is that those who oppose the death penalty favor the lives of criminals over those of members of the innocent public since the death penalty is a deterrent for the simple reason that criminals and their lawyers so strenuously try to avoid it. We should execute far a far greater percentage of murderers than we do. If the death penalty is ever abolished, family members of the murdered will begin to seek vengeance, something we don't want in an ordered society.

Why should taxpayers pay for lifetime room and board for killers?

As to the argument that we are nearly alone in imposing it, it is just absurd. As to third world countries, their legal practices and constitutions are typically a joke where the people are promised the world potentially and given very little. Their constitutions are just window dressing for the outside world, and they do little to protect the lives of their people, and the absence of the death penalty is just another example.

As to Europe the absence of the death penalty in most of Europe is in line with the historical fact that the ordinary people have always been run into the ground and not protected in Europe. Prior to the French Rwevolution it was the right, and since, with the exception of WWII, it has been the left.

This lack of concern for ordinary people in Europe is not only reflected in the absence of the death penalty, but in restrictions on guns so that people cannot protect themselves (you can be sure that the elite have guns, as they do in NYC), in their increasing lack of free speech to meet the Islamist threat and in the general way that the many are oppressed economically so that many young people never have a chance of getting a job so that those with a job can be cossetted. Read Paul Johnson's book "Intellectuals" to understand the intellectual underpinning of all of this in the left intellectual loving the idea of the people, but not loving individual people. One old joke about this from Soviet times was that the USSR had such a low murder rate because murder was a government monopoly.

As to the so-called Innocence Project, don't forget that it is run by Barry Schreck, one of O.J.'s lawyers who succeeded in using the race issue to thwart justice in that case, and for that reason is entitled to very little credibility in any situation.

Also, note how when the Innocence Project has suceeded in gaining the release of some prisoner via DNA the details are seldom given in news accounts. The reason for this is that although the DNA aspect of the case may have been faulty the case itself still suggests guilt, but because of the passage of time, prosecutorial overwork and a lack of guts in the political world many of the people released are guilty, but then what else would one expect from Schreck after his helping to pervert justice in the O.J. case.

I have gone on at some length because the campaign against the death penalty is fairly dishonest intellectually, being the death of a thousand small cuts, many dishonest, so it is necessary to be fairly loquacious to answer them.

Lastly, on the general subject of the perversion of justice in this country in favor of the criminal against society and victims I suggest the book "And Justice for Some", by Wendy Murphy, a 40 year old Massachusetts lawyer, who is a former prosecutor, a lecturer at Harvard and MIT, and victims' lawyer, who gives many disgusting examples of the way the defense bar subverts the law, including the OJ and Kobe Bryant cases and many others which will sicken you. BTW she is 40, beautiful and has 5 natural kids - talk about superwoman.

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» Your Arguments Are Nonsense Posted by: sofla100
» RE: hackbut Posted by: Realliberal87
» RE: hackbut Posted by: Democritus
Would they support the death penalty
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jan 25, 2008 12:44 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for the murder of thousands of our soldiers and innocent Iraqies? I doubt it.

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Murder is murder
Posted by: fg on Jan 25, 2008 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
no matter who commits it--individuals or individuals en masse (i.e. society).

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» Reality Bites Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Murder is murder Posted by: Realliberal87
RE: Give them death
Posted by: Realliberal87 on Jan 25, 2008 3:29 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why do so many liberal democratics oppose the death penalty for convicted murderers who have earned it,but support the death penalty for
innocent preborn children? That sounds very inconsistent to me.

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» RE: Give them death Posted by: morticia
» RE: Give them death Posted by: Democritus
Life Without the Possibility of Parole is CHEAPER
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Jan 25, 2008 5:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life Without the Possibility of Parole is CHEAPER and inmates vanish into obscurity. Better for everyone except maybe the inmates.
Death row groupies from all over the world flock to their death row rock-star soul mates. see www.prisontalk.com

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Let's imprison the real terrorists and put them in death row.
Posted by: leland61 on Jan 25, 2008 8:30 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can start with George W. Bush and Dick (Darth) Cheney - responsible for the deaths of 3,932 (as of today) Americans in Iraq and more than 1,000,000 Iraqis.

With a government run by thugs, the last thing we need to give them is weapons.

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Clinton, Obama, Edwards; The Three Are One
Posted by: Betsy L. Angert on Jan 25, 2008 8:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dearest Liliana Segura . . . .

I could kiss you for this treatise! In August 2007, I attended the Yearly Kos Convention. While I am an ardent Dennis Kucinich supporter and have not wavered, I was unable to participate in a "break out session" with my candidate of choice. After the debate, Congressman Kucinich immediately returned to Washington, District of Columbia. He did not wish to miss a House floor vote.

Hence, I decided to go to the John Edwards discussion group. I was already aware of the many Conservative positions Hillary Clinton and Barack Obama had adopted. I thought I might be able to consider Edwards, if perchance Kucinich was not the nominee.

Much to my chagrin, I learned more than I expected. Just as you state, John Edwards was asked of capital punishment, and spoke of his advocacy. He also shared his personal struggles with abortion and gay marriage. For Edwards, impeachment must remain off the table. Oh, there was more.

As you mention, for Barack Obama to kill a "suspected" terrorists is fine. These "fanatics" can be murdered in the chair or in a country Americans classify as one filled with "enemy combatants."

Hillary Clinton endorses an increased war effort, dependent on the day she is asked. A year ago, she declared we need to send more troops to Afghanistan. She will not fully commit to end the war. Clinton coyly reminds us, she cannot know what she will find once in the White House. Nonetheless, we can be certain killing of one she deems a foe is not a problem.

For me, the three are one, and this is the source of my extreme frustration.

I offer treatises that encapsulate my thoughts. Please feel free to share yours . . .
Clinton, Obama, Edwards; The Three Are One

MSNBC Debate; Clinton, Edwards, Obama. Theatre of the Absurd.

Health Care in America; Uninsured, Underinsured, Universal Woes

Betsy L. Angert
BeThink.org

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THE DEATH PENALTY DOESN'T WORK
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 26, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a deterrent it has failed. It is expensive and torture for survivors of the victim. They wait 10-15 years only to find out that they won't get their 'pound of flesh'. Only 5% of those condemned to die are executed. We execute too many of the wrong peopele. One is 'too many'. It's time we caught up with the rest of the world. Check out the few remaing countries that still execute people. You'll be embarassed by the company we keep. Thanks, ANNA

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THE DEATH PENALTY DOESN'T WORK
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 26, 2008 8:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a deterrent it has failed. It is expensive and torture for survivors of the victim. They wait 10-15 years only to find out that they won't get their 'pound of flesh'. Only 5% of those condemned to die are executed. We execute too many of the wrong peopele. One is 'too many'. It's time we caught up with the rest of the world. Check out the few remaing countries that still execute people. You'll be embarassed by the company we keep. Thanks, ANNA

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it is not about race.
Posted by: Ky Lake Dave on Jan 26, 2008 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
“While 12 percent of the country is African-American, more than 40 percent of the country's death row population is black -- and although blacks and whites are murder victims in nearly equal numbers, 80 percent of the prisoners executed since the death penalty was reinstated were convicted for murders in which the victim was white.”
The author fails to state the percentage of African-American defendants. Sure , the number of black and white victims are the same but the higher percentage murderers are black. Most criminals are black and most crime is perpetrated by African-Americans. So it is simply logical that a higher percentage of people on death row are black.
But why is the author making the death penalty about race anyway. Who cares what color the murderer is? Scum is scum no matter the color. Most Americans are in favor of the death penalty, so Democrats tread lightly to their beliefs against the death penalty.
My personal opinion is that if a murderer is put away forever without any chance of parole, no matter what. And if I was assured they were in a place they could not kill others in jail, prisoners or guards, then I could live with that. BUT over and over liberals have lobbied for murderers to go free. We all know that liberals will try to free these murderers. The ACLU does not care if they are guilty or innocent. They only want to free these people. The ACLU is not concerned with the victim or the future victim. The ACLU is not concerned with the victims’ families or the families of future victims.
Most reasonable people believe in the death penalty because once dead, murderers will not walk the streets again to kill others. Pretty simple and straight forward and not racist at all.

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» RE: it is not about race. Posted by: desidid
» Most murderers are black Posted by: YogiBear
Nice Company you keep
Posted by: thesbrian on Jan 26, 2008 6:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
According to Amnesty International's 2006 report,"As in previous years, the vast majority of executions worldwide were carried out in a small handful of countries. In 2006, 91 per cent of all known executions took place in six countries: China, Iran, Pakistan, Iraq, Sudan and the USA. Kuwait had the highest number of executions per capita of population, followed by Iran." (If Texas were a country, it would be high on the list.) Yet your rate of homicide and other "capital" crimes shows no significant decrease. Deterrent? HA!

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Birds of s Feather
Posted by: Ivann on Jan 27, 2008 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Three comments:

1) If the US feels comfortable being bracketed with China, Saudi Arabia & Iran, then that is the US's right.

2) A lot of emotion here about the cases of individual murderers. Where do the politicians who by proxy murder hundreds of thousands of INNOCENT people fit into the picture?

3) I am against the death penalty but I do believe that there is a valid case for re-instituting imprisonment WITH HARD LABOR.

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Obama On the Death Penalty
Posted by: Raina Dale on Jan 27, 2008 7:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I strongly oppose the death penalty. I also strongly support Barack Obama for the next President of the United States. Here is some information from Obama's Fact Check page that explains why:

REALITY: OBAMA CONSISTENTLY SUPPORTED THE DEATH PENALTY FOR CERTAIN CRIMES BUT BACKED A MORATORIUM UNTIL PROBLEMS WERE FIXED...

1999: Obama Said That Certain Precautions Had To Be Taken Before One Could Consider The Death Penalty, Supported A Moratorium. "As for death penalty moratoriums, Obama, who's also a constitutional lawyer, said unless proper due process exists, no one should be put on death row...'I was a main sponsor of a bill that would have put an immediate moratorium on the death penalty,' said Obama. 'We need to put more resources into the Public Defender's office, so they can do things like DNA testing and take other means to make sure you've got the right person before you consider the death penalty.'" [Chicago Weekend, 9/23/99]

2004: Obama Said He Supported The Death Penalty For Certain Crimes, But Did Not Support How The Death Penalty Was Administered. Obama said, "I support capital punishment for heinous crimes. I cannot, however, support the current system which is rife with error and lacks sufficient safeguards against wrongful convictions." The Chicago Tribune reported, "Obama qualified his stance, saying that his support eroded further when looking at how the death penalty 'is currently administered in this country.'" [AP, 3/10/04; Chicago Tribune, 2/20/04]

2007: Obama Said That He Supported The Death Penalty For Certain Crimes But Opposed The Death Penalty In Its Current Application And Would Not Change Those Views To Attack A Republican Opponent From The Right. Obama said, "That was something about him that I respected. Because my own views on the death penalty are very complicated. I've said that in theory I don't object to the death penalty for heinous crimes--terrorism, mass murder, child killers. But, in its application, it's been racially biased, highly unreliable, inconsistent. So for me to try to pretend that I was a cheerleader for the death penalty, simply to score a political point, that wasn't reflective of my views." [New Republic, 11/29/07]


AND LED THE FIGHT FOR REFORM IN ILLINOIS

Obama Played A "Key" Role In Passing Death Penalty Overhaul, "Made A Difference On A Matter Of Life And Death." The AP reported, "Democratic presidential candidate Barack Obama can honestly claim to have made a difference on a matter of life and death. While an Illinois state senator, Obama was key in getting the state's notorious death penalty laws changed, including a requirement that in most cases police interrogations involving capital crimes must be recorded... Enactment of the 2003 law was a huge political achievement in a state that had been deeply divided over problems with capital punishment." [AP, 11/12/07]

"Without Barack's Energy, Imagination And Commitment I Do Not Believe The Very Substantial And Meaningful Reforms That Became Law In Illinois Would Have Taken Place." "'Without Barack's energy, imagination and commitment I do not believe the very substantial and meaningful reforms that became law in Illinois would have taken place,' said author Scott Turow, a member of the state commission that recommended many of the changes." [AP, 11/12/07]

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» RE: Obama On the Death Penalty Posted by: Woodpecker
Works as Intended
Posted by: BlackbirdHighway on Jan 28, 2008 5:48 AM   
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The death penalty works exactly as intended: it was designed by racists to be racist. Just like our drug laws. If you wanted to throw white people in jail, tobacco would be ilegal, not pot.

Politicians have learned that you can be as racist as you want in America, and get away with it, as long as it's only your policies that are racist, not your words. America will not tolerate racists words, but racist actions and policies are ok.

When we, the American people, start recognizing the racists policies, and stop electing the people behind them, then that will change. I don't see any sign of that happening soon.

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RON PAUL opposes the federal death penalty
Posted by: James W. Harris on Jan 29, 2008 10:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ron Paul has served 9 terms as a Texas Republican Congressman in a conservative district.

Yet Paul opposes the federal death penalty, and for the right reasons.

This position has no doubt cost him votes. Indeed, it's hard to imagine a GOPer saying what he says about it.

In the All-American Forum debate at Morgan State in September 2007, Paul stated:

"Over the years I've held pretty rigid to all my beliefs, but I've changed my opinion of the death penalty. For federal purposes I no longer believe in the death penalty. I believe it has been issued unjustly. If you're rich, you get away with it; if you're poor and you're from the inner city you're more likely to be prosecuted and convicted, and today, with the DNA evidence, there've been too many mistakes, and I am now opposed to the federal death penalty."

(Paul is running for federal office, and believes in a highly decentralized government, and so his comments deal only with federal death penalties. But it is obvious he is opposed to the death penalty in general, too, but would want activists to oppose state death penalties at the state level, rather than have the federal government make that decision.)

Paul's principled opposition to the death penalty is for all the right progressive and spiritual reasons.

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I used to be against the death penalty
Posted by: LouisFallert on Jan 30, 2008 4:50 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
but Bush and Cheney and the rest have convinced me that there are some who deserve the death penalty, namely Bush Cheney and the rest.
Whatever happened to assasination attempts?

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Capital Punishment
Posted by: Romantic Violence on Jan 30, 2008 5:00 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I define 'capital punishment' as follows:

Those who don't have the capital, get the punishment.

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Senilebiker et. al.
Posted by: bobtr900 on Feb 4, 2008 12:20 PM   
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Many above make many great points, starting with senile biker. The hypocrisy of the right wing including my religion, Catholicism, is actually almost beyond use of the term hypocrisy. Right wingers are crazy as well as hypocritical. They claim pro-life and family values and just go on killing for the Bush family oil wars, for profit, the most crass of all instincts.

They damn all of us who are non-republicans for the very sins and evil deeds that in reality they are committing. A priest came to visit me in the hospital probably because upon emergency admittance and upon being asked about my religion I said I was Catholic. After saying a prayer over me the priest said I should rejoin the community of the faithful, the Catholic community. I said to him, Fr. I am a Catholic vbut I am not a republican. He got a pained look on his face and walked out of my room. He understood my position with that one statement. He and some other Catholics I have talked to then understood that I did not buy into their egregious hypocrisy.

In the fifties I learned about the right wingers as a motorcyclist we all became sensitized about them upon learning that ifa 'citizen', a cr driver, hit a biker, one of us all he had to do when in court was to say that he did not see the biker and the court just ended the case.

Another example of the right wing hypocrisy was when in Catholic high school we began to learn about Catholic Church history and politics over the last two centuries. Our religion teachers did not deny it when my fellow students brought in examples of Catholic Church torture and killing of others. At least these teachers were not denyers of the facts.

Now the Catholic fundamentalists of today, the Pope(s) are the most fundie of the Church, are totally trapped in Catholic Church ideology and cannot self correct, they have painted themselves into a corner and cannot back down or change their position on any issue as they will further reveal their past and ongoing hypocrisies. It was then that I became a Catholic with ever increasing reservations about the church.

Now the Pope and his Catholic fundamentalist followers; Tim Russert, Bill O'Reilly, Sean Hannity, Chris Matthews, Joe Scarborough, Scalia, Thomas, Roberts, Alito, Tom Monohan, Erik Prince(Blackwater) Santorum, Jeb Bush, Tony Blair(now we can see the connection) and many more of the scum have no compunction about chastising and damning and killing everyone else who is not a republican. They have all been doing this ever since Pope John Paul IIjoined Jerry Falwell(normally they hated each other) and put Ronnie Reagan, the sleeping alzheimer into the WH. Their hypocrisy knows no bounds.

So what are they doing. They blame every one else for what they are doing.

They are not pushing pro-life and family values. If so what about the pro-life and family values of our dead and maimed troops. What about the pro-life and family values of the Iraqis and their families.

No almost none of this is truly about pro-life and family values. This is all about politics and power and money. The republicans are using pro-life and family values for monetary gain and political power. So you ask what about the Pope.

If the Pope was concerned about pro-life and family values why would he ever endorse the Republican Party. It is the party of war and death for PROFIT. What does the Pope get out of it. The Pope gets your soul. The Republican Party wants your body and your money. The Pope wants your soul.

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