COMMENTS: 56
Whatever Happened to 'We the People'?
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Civil Liberties headlines via email.
We the people
The traditional American liberal story is the story of We the People.
As Americans, the most important part of our social identity is our role as citizens. To be a citizen means to be part of, and a de- fender of, the commons of our nation. The water we drink, the air we breathe, the streets we drive on, the schools that we use, the departments that protect us -- these are all the physical commons. And there are also the cultural commons -- the stories we tell ourselves, our histories, our religions, and our notions of ourselves. And there are the commons of our power systems (in the majority of American communities), our health-care system (stolen from us and privatized over the past twenty-five years, our hospitals in particular used to be mostly nonprofit or run by mostly city or county governments), and the electronic commons of our radio and TV spectrum and the Internet.
Most important for citizenship is the commons of government -- the creation and the servant of We the People.
Franklin D. Roosevelt understood this commons. In his "Four Freedoms" speech, he said, "Necessitous men are not free men." Hungry people aren't free people, no matter what you want to call them. Hungry people can't be good citizens: they're too busy taking care of the hungry part of themselves to care about the citizen part.
Republicans don't want to fund FDR's social safety net because they fundamentally do not believe in the concept of We the People collectively protecting all of us in anything other than a military/police way. They don't believe that "the rabble" should run the country. They want big corporations to run the commons of our nation, and they think that the most appropriate role for citizens is that of infantilized consumers -- of both commercial products and commercially produced political packaging.
This is the fundamental debate in our society: Are we a nation of citizens or a nation of consumers? Are we a democracy run by citizens, or are we a corporatocracy that holds consumers locked in dependency by virtue of their consumption?
Consumerism appeals to the greedy and selfish child part of us, the infantilized part that just wants someone else to take care of us. The core message of most commercials is that "you are the most important person in the world." Commercial advertising almost never mentions "we" or "us."
What is at stake today is the very future of our democratic republic. If we accept an identity as fearful, infantilized consumers, we will be acting from our baby part and allowing corporate America and an increasingly authoritarian government to fill the role of a parent part.
The story we are told is that we should surrender all of our power to corporations and just let them govern us because a mystical but all-knowing godlike force called "the free market" will eventually solve all of our problems.
That story fits in very well with the conservatives' other story: that we are children who need to be protected from evil humans; and because corporations are amoral and not human, they are intrinsically and morally superior to evil humans.
To save democracy we must crack that code and bring back the code so well understood by the Founders of this nation: that we're a country of barn-builders, of communities, of intrinsically good people who work together for the common good and the common wealth. We begin this process by speaking to the responsible part of us, the part that enjoys being grown up and socially responsible.
The story we have to tell is the story of citizenship derived from our best and most noble parts. It's the story of We the People.
We talk a lot about the features of citizenship, like the right to vote, but we sometimes forget what the benefits are. The main benefit of citizenship is freedom -- not freedom from external or internal dangers (although that is included in the package, it's only one of the six purposes listed in the Preamble to the Constitution) that conservatives obsess on, but freedom to think as we want, to pray as we want, to say what we want, and to live as we want to fulfill our true potential as humans (the other five things listed in the Preamble).
The question, ultimately, is whether our nation will continue to stand for the values on which it was founded.
Early American conservatives suggested that democracy was so ultimately weak it couldn't withstand the assault of newspaper editors and citizens who spoke out against it, leading John Adams (our second president and our first conservative president) to pass America's first Military Commissions Act-like laws: the Alien and Sedition Acts of 1798. President Thomas Jefferson, who beat Adams in the "Revolution of 1800" election, rebuked those who wanted America ruled by an iron-handed presidency that could -- as Adams had -- throw people in jail for "crimes" such as speaking political opinion, and without constitutional due process.
"I know, indeed," Jefferson said in his first inaugural address on March 4, 1801, "that some honest men fear that a republican government cannot be strong; that this government is not strong enough." But, Jefferson said, our nation was "the world's best hope" precisely because we put our trust in We the People.
Stay up to date with the latest Civil Liberties headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vox persona on Nov 23, 2007 12:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Bush appointed onto the mining commission the biggest polluters (donors), installed industry lobbyists and lawyers to head virtually every environmental agency, let the oil companies dictate our 'energy policy' and the pharmaceutical companies write the Medicare bill, and his every policy favors corporate interests over the general welfare. We've plunged into a full-fledged corporatocracy, anjd away from the egalitarian system our founders thought they were creating. Our problems were accelerated by the faulty 1975 Supreme Court decision 'Bucklet v Valeo', ruling that spending money to influence elections was a form of constitutionally protected free speech. Now all bets are off, we'll be paying for that one for a long time.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We the people
Posted by: CommonDreamer
» What "free market" !?!?!?
Posted by: P.E.A.C.E.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 23, 2007 2:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, by all and any means, if you haven't yet tuned into this very valuable program, you really should.
Happy listening!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Remembering RFK 1925-1968
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Nov 23, 2007 3:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We choose and shape our leadership in our own image. Corruption rules at all levels so long as we, the People, are corrupt.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We, the people...
Posted by: tiellis
» RE: We, the people...
Posted by: JSquercia
» Sure , blame the people ...
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aharlib on Nov 23, 2007 3:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Impeach Cheney NOW
Defense of the Constitution Knows No Party
The Bush administration has illegally seized and imprisoned Americans without benefit of their trial by jury, has spied on Americans without warrant in violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, has lied America into a disastrous war, and has betrayed an American intelligence officer, who was working on weapons of mass destruction networks, to our enemies (Valerie Plame.)
Impeachment hearings against Vice President Dick Cheney are now a distinct possibility, thanks to a recent outpouring of public support for impeachment by Americans across the political spectrum. Your calls and faxes to House Judiciary Committee members are needed to keep up the pressure.
Leave a message for your Congressman, to demand he obey his oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Act now to restore your rights and the rule of law bequeathed to us by our Founding Fathers, which brave men have died defending throughout our history.
Call the House Judiciary Committee
202-225-3951
and demand that Impeachment hearings begin ASAP!
*What Happened to Make This All Possible?
On November 6, 2007, Rep. Dennis Kucinich brought H.Res.333, for the impeachment of Cheney, to the House Floor for debate. It was broadcast on CSPAN. A sudden outpouring of public support for impeachment forced lawmakers to keep the resolution alive. Democrats, most of whom currently resist demands for impeachment, were unwilling to kill the bill with the public watching. Republicans and some Democrats, mindful of impeachment sentiment, voted to debate the bill, but failed. At the end of the day, Americans of both parties had made it clear whose "table" this is, and that they want to see impeachment on it.
For more information go to
NEImpeach.org
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Nov 23, 2007 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In all these things, "we the people" understood that our Constitution was being shredded, bit by bit, by executive fiat. Unfortunately, the Congress we elected hasn't caught up to what "we the people" understand. Instead, impeachment is kept "off the table," and funding for our occupation of Iraq continues unabated.
The House of Representatives now has the power to cut off funding the Iraq war, and it has the power of impeachment. The question remains whether it will do the will of "we the people" in these matters, or whether it will continue to participate in the erosion of our democratic freedoms.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Congress has caught up you just ain't seein it
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: Congress has caught up you just ain't seein it
Posted by: urthsong
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Nov 23, 2007 4:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's sad that enough people have been gulled into screwing themselves economically to spite others, but so it is. Let's hope that the Democrats (excluding the neocon Hillary Clinton) can convince them that the economic catastrophe brought on by Bush's economic policies, which his father derided as "voodoo economics" before signing on with Reagan and becoming a convert, should cause them to support a more liberal candidate.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The synergy between authoritarians and dominators
Posted by: jimbee
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Nov 23, 2007 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Freedumb
Posted by: swifturtle
» Kucinich
Posted by: Col. Jackleg
» RE: Freedumb
Posted by: noahtomt
Comments are closed-
Posted by: overseas on Nov 23, 2007 4:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Kleptocracy is more like it ...
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TarryFaster on Nov 23, 2007 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WILLYBILLO7 on Nov 23, 2007 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Ballot for a People’s Referendum
The United States government is broken almost beyond repair, completely and totally under the control of business and non-responsive to the will of the American Citizen. Our rights guaranteed under the Constitution have been ignored and dissolved. We are engaged in a war that the majority of the People do not support. Our children and Iraqi children are being poisoned with depleted uranium and slaughtered. Our Veterans are being ignored and abused. Innocent Citizens of the World are being tortured under our name. Our environment is being destroyed. Monumental catastrophes in our country have been ignored. The system of elections has been corrupted. Our children are being denied health care. The illegal Federal Reserve System has stolen trillions of dollars from our economy and its laborers. The integrity, honor and spirit of the American People have been forever scarred.
It is long past time to take back this United States from the corporations who have become the government.
It is time to re-establish and refresh the original content and spirit of the Constitution of the United States of America.
This is a call to all True Americans to awaken from the nightmare that pervades our land….to create a new dream…..a dream based on truth, honor, integrity and real equality.
This ballot is the beginning.
DO YOU BELIEVE THIS GOVERNMENT…..EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL SHOULD BE RECALLED AND DISSOLVED AND A NEW DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT ELECTED DIRECTLY BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE PUT IN IT’S PLACE?
PLEASE CHECK “YES” OR “NO’
YES____ NO____
Signature____________________
Email Address (optional, but strongly requested)________________________
Postal Address (optional)_______________
___________________________________
Please copy, paste and send to ignotzle@windstream.net
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Willybill
Posted by: David Wick
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Smartcookie on Nov 23, 2007 5:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wouldn't say it's childish, since I've known children who make most adults look bad. I'd say it's what each person really cares about is reflected in their behaviour, despite their words.
At the end of the day, if I say I care but didn't do anything, actually meant "I pretended to care, but I don't."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 23, 2007 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Folks, we need to SHUT DOWN the "Consumer spending drives the economy" BULLSHIT
Posted by: urthsong
Comments are closed-
Posted by: boblecht on Nov 23, 2007 7:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government of the People, by the Corporations, for the Corporations is not Democracy--it is a hallmark of a Fascist State.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 23, 2007 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: foolme1ns on Nov 23, 2007 7:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The republicans have become the most fiscally irresponsible, spoiled group of babies that America has seen. They criticize the democrats for being nannies. Well what do nannies do? They take care of children and make sure they don't hurt themselves or others. The republicans could use some good tough nannies. Nanny 911 comes to mind. It is time take the republicans and their irresponsibility and teach them how to work and play well with others without tearing up the house. The republicans are spoiled brats, wanting everything, giving nothing, and pitching fits or holding their breath when they don't get their way. They like their leader, George Bush, have become infantile tyrants incapable of controlling themslves, making them a danger to themselves and society.
It is time for some adult supervision over these horrid horrible children. We need people who are concerned with the common good.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 23, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RE: Life during wartime.
[Report this comment] [Ignore this user] Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 23, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I came back from Nam, I went to live in the Haight.
Although there were constant protests about the war, it never seemed that so many Americans hated each other so fiercly as they do now.
Politicians are politicians and, they all have the indentical agenda, get elected, get re-elected and suck the benefits they can force the people to pay them.
All the rest is goddamn lies.
The great difference I see in the REAL AMERICANS of then and those of now is that, we have actually been DELIBERATELY torn apart with intense and real hate for 'the other side".
I will plainly state that I detest the fundies, and the rw neocons due to the fact that THEY are the ones who have bought into the lies and deceit of the politicians and are actually ASSISTING them in destroying what MY AMERICA is/was.
I was in the navy and got out.
When some of the guys I knew came home in pieces and boxes, I re-upped to go to Nam as, I was a corpsman and felt that I could help some of my buddies.
You cannot imagine how much I hate war.
And, because I openly state that I am against bastard's invented oil war, I am accused of being "against the troops" by candy-assed little chickenhawk wannabes who never were and NEVER WILL BE.
This is America??!!
Fuck no, not MY AMERICA.
I'm 68 now and am busy making my way as comfortable as possible for what I have left.
I remember the way people were then and the living and active hopes they felt for America.
I often miss those who were the voices in the wilderness back then.
Unfortunately, even if there were as many new voices and active protesters now as there were then, the evil US government would commit even miore murders than the murders they committed at Kent State.
This MISadministration is rready and willing to murder Americans to stop the REAL AMERICANS from ever having control of our coutry again.
As for those who are so naive that they think voting has any bearing on what happens, go talk to a tree or wall.
There is not one of these lying pieces of shit that are real, truthful or actually care about REAL AMERICANS.
I am fucking angrier than I have ever been about what these thieves are doing/taking.
We see the rare commenters on TV such as Olbermann who says some things and has some other talking heads on his show.
Although he is clearly not one of those 'tards such as those at fucked up noise, I'm seeing that it's a "schtick" for him and, it's all about ratings.
Here it is in reality:
NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!!
NOT ONE FUCKING THING EVER HAPPENS TO GET OUR AMERICA BACK TO THOSE OF US WHO DESERVE TO HAVE IT.
The self-serving scum ion government and the rw fundie neogoons who have been so easily conned by the hateful sewage in government have stolen what is left of Americas.
Can we PLEASE VIOLENTLY TAKE IT BACK??!!
FUCK THEM, IT IS OURS!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I posted - maybe this will help. I hear you brother.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I posted - maybe this will help. I hear you brother.
Posted by: urthsong
» RE: I posted - maybe this will help. I hear you brother.
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on Nov 23, 2007 8:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please send post cards with this message to Nancy Pelosi:
We want HR 333!
District Office - 450 Golden Gate Ave. - 14th Floor - San Francisco, CA 94102
(415) 556-4862
Washington, D.C. Office - 235 Cannon HOB - Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-4965
Thank you.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Can Nancy get the message?
Posted by: urthsong
» I'm writing tomorrow...this is absurd
Posted by: rjgwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 23, 2007 8:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it communism? Is it fascism? Same difference, actually. In the final analysis, the left-wing powermongers are no different from the rightwing powermongers - they're both obssessed with centralized control, and it really makes little difference whether Wall Street or the Central Committee controls everything. In both cases, wealth and power is concentrated in a few hands - monarchies worked the same way. Villas on the Black Sea, British aristo estates, sprawling Texas "ranches", Saudi palaces - they all smell the same.
The same goes for information (also known as "the media"). Totalitarians can only survive if people are kept in the dark about what they're up to (Rockefeller's first rule was "hide the profits"). The media's job is to inform the people of what's going on in the world - but the vast majority of the media - TV, radio, and print - is now in the hands of the very same people who control the energy flows. U.S. media is a gigantic propaganda system, designed to keep U.S. citizens consuming like crazy, to hide the real centers of wealth and power, to spur nationalistic jingoism, and so on.
The real goal now should be independence based on local control of energy and information. Independence from corporate control of energy flows can be achieved by relying on the sun, the wind, and locally owned land. Independence from the choking slime of the media can be achieved via the Internet - and also by just keeping your eyes open and paying attention to what your local politicians and government officials and corporate interests are up to.
These corporate energy and media interests are indeed massive - but remember this: a school of piranha have been known to skeletonize a cow in a matter of minutes.
This is definitely not about left-wing or right-wing politics, however. It's about conscientious independents vs. corporate-fascist-communist zombies and their zombie masters. It's about freedom.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wwsword on Nov 23, 2007 9:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The story we are told is that we should surrender all of our power to corporations and just let them govern us because a mystical but all-knowing godlike force called 'the free market' will eventually solve all of our problems."
"That story fits in very well with the conservatives' other story: that we are children who need to be protected from evil humans; and because corporations are amoral and not human, they are intrinsically and morally superior to evil humans."
But when the author opines "that we're a country of barn-builders, of communities, of intrinsically good people who work together for the common good and the common wealth," the argument goes badly off the rails.
This is not what we are. Rather, we're a country of colonizers, genocidists, and slave owners, of segregated communities, of corporate-bureaucracy-builders, of white males who work together to keep down women and despised minorities for the good of the capitalist and the capitalists wealth.
It is only because women, minorities, and thoughtful white men have rebelled against what we are that we have made any progress towards democracy. We aren't there yet. We surely can't go back (that's the conservative vision). We have to go forward, and that means overthrowing corporate state capitalism and replacing it with a true democracy - the last thing that our founders wanted us to have.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Article Needs Realism--True...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Nov 23, 2007 11:21 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this however, is one of those missing the mark.
basing LAW on the preamble is never a good thing--do you honestly think the table isn't turned? 100-1 the asshats who voted for the PATRIOT act, or the recent bit of dung called HR1995, use YOUR EXACT logic for justification.
at that point, all you've got is how you FEEL/BELIEVE--not logic. and really, puts you in the same bed as those you critise.
poor lad, you've never understood the constitution--what makes me think that'd hange?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...
Posted by: ad132
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...--Pull my head
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...and yes
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...
Posted by: Ellie1
» Can't Debate The Point
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Nov 23, 2007 11:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It grew into a cancer that spread thruout the entire Republican party.
Let's see... who has been in power for more time than anyone since that time? That would be the Republican party. They have been infiltrated so deeply that the middle of the road Republican is no longer allowed to speak in their party. Unless you are slamdunk hard right you have no say.
They are directly responsible for this mess.
You can lay the blame squarely on fundamentalist Christians who took over their party and have tried ever since to take it completely over.
What is the primary purpose of religion? It is to divide people into groups. Us vs. Them. Witness what the Middle East looks like. They are divided into groups along religious lines.
What has the religious right done here? They have used POLITICS as their weapon, using the exact same techniques that work for their religion. They know that they can't come right out and use religious language because they will be caught. But they're doing it nonetheless.
This is exactly why the Founding Fathers wanted a strict separation of church and state. Recal the bloodshed that was European civilization. It ceased to exist when the US was created. It was a direct result of that separation.
But now, it's back. And it's back because as a nation not enough of us are knowledgeable about the past. Not enough people understand the Constitution. Ignorance of the past dooms you to repeat it.
Well... it's repeating itself. We've become Sunni and Shia.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Who started all this?
Posted by: urthsong
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blueprelude on Nov 23, 2007 12:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dougo on Nov 23, 2007 1:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TruthBought&$old on Nov 23, 2007 4:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To quote Jefferson, by far his most important words on tyranny continue to be ignored...
“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of [private cartel] lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
- President Thomas Jefferson
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Nov 23, 2007 4:57 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
File at:
MP3
Mirror site
Kevin Ryan of the Journal of 9/11 Studies decimated Michael Shermer of Skeptic Magazine. Shermer's skepticism was exposed as blindered and petty, reserved only for critics of the government with no skepticism directed AT the government.
Hartman was a good moderator.
Crimes of the State Blog
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NumberSix on Nov 24, 2007 7:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer is:
"Apparently, nothing."
(Da-da-da-da-da....)
Pens down.
"What is the difference between the current USA and the final days of Rome?"
Winners get to keep their sanity.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: amiabledave on Nov 25, 2007 1:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democracy, or its pretentions, come long after the slaughter involved in forming a nation, is complete. Which usually means stealing it from others. Our nation was fomed by genocide, slavery, and incredible self-interest.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: doubter on Nov 26, 2007 12:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses
Posted by: gator34
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Staggo on Nov 28, 2007 3:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: vox persona on Nov 23, 2007 12:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Bush appointed onto the mining commission the biggest polluters (donors), installed industry lobbyists and lawyers to head virtually every environmental agency, let the oil companies dictate our 'energy policy' and the pharmaceutical companies write the Medicare bill, and his every policy favors corporate interests over the general welfare. We've plunged into a full-fledged corporatocracy, anjd away from the egalitarian system our founders thought they were creating. Our problems were accelerated by the faulty 1975 Supreme Court decision 'Bucklet v Valeo', ruling that spending money to influence elections was a form of constitutionally protected free speech. Now all bets are off, we'll be paying for that one for a long time.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We the people
Posted by: CommonDreamer
» What "free market" !?!?!?
Posted by: P.E.A.C.E.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Tom Degan on Nov 23, 2007 2:04 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please, by all and any means, if you haven't yet tuned into this very valuable program, you really should.
Happy listening!
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Remembering RFK 1925-1968
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Nov 23, 2007 3:02 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We choose and shape our leadership in our own image. Corruption rules at all levels so long as we, the People, are corrupt.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: We, the people...
Posted by: tiellis
» RE: We, the people...
Posted by: JSquercia
» Sure , blame the people ...
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: aharlib on Nov 23, 2007 3:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Impeach Cheney NOW
Defense of the Constitution Knows No Party
The Bush administration has illegally seized and imprisoned Americans without benefit of their trial by jury, has spied on Americans without warrant in violation of the Fourth Amendment of the Constitution, has lied America into a disastrous war, and has betrayed an American intelligence officer, who was working on weapons of mass destruction networks, to our enemies (Valerie Plame.)
Impeachment hearings against Vice President Dick Cheney are now a distinct possibility, thanks to a recent outpouring of public support for impeachment by Americans across the political spectrum. Your calls and faxes to House Judiciary Committee members are needed to keep up the pressure.
Leave a message for your Congressman, to demand he obey his oath to "defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic." Act now to restore your rights and the rule of law bequeathed to us by our Founding Fathers, which brave men have died defending throughout our history.
Call the House Judiciary Committee
202-225-3951
and demand that Impeachment hearings begin ASAP!
*What Happened to Make This All Possible?
On November 6, 2007, Rep. Dennis Kucinich brought H.Res.333, for the impeachment of Cheney, to the House Floor for debate. It was broadcast on CSPAN. A sudden outpouring of public support for impeachment forced lawmakers to keep the resolution alive. Democrats, most of whom currently resist demands for impeachment, were unwilling to kill the bill with the public watching. Republicans and some Democrats, mindful of impeachment sentiment, voted to debate the bill, but failed. At the end of the day, Americans of both parties had made it clear whose "table" this is, and that they want to see impeachment on it.
For more information go to
NEImpeach.org
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Democritus on Nov 23, 2007 4:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In all these things, "we the people" understood that our Constitution was being shredded, bit by bit, by executive fiat. Unfortunately, the Congress we elected hasn't caught up to what "we the people" understand. Instead, impeachment is kept "off the table," and funding for our occupation of Iraq continues unabated.
The House of Representatives now has the power to cut off funding the Iraq war, and it has the power of impeachment. The question remains whether it will do the will of "we the people" in these matters, or whether it will continue to participate in the erosion of our democratic freedoms.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Congress has caught up you just ain't seein it
Posted by: gdonald
» RE: Congress has caught up you just ain't seein it
Posted by: urthsong
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AlexLawyer on Nov 23, 2007 4:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's sad that enough people have been gulled into screwing themselves economically to spite others, but so it is. Let's hope that the Democrats (excluding the neocon Hillary Clinton) can convince them that the economic catastrophe brought on by Bush's economic policies, which his father derided as "voodoo economics" before signing on with Reagan and becoming a convert, should cause them to support a more liberal candidate.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The synergy between authoritarians and dominators
Posted by: jimbee
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Col. Jackleg on Nov 23, 2007 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Freedumb
Posted by: swifturtle
» Kucinich
Posted by: Col. Jackleg
» RE: Freedumb
Posted by: noahtomt
Comments are closed-
Posted by: overseas on Nov 23, 2007 4:25 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Kleptocracy is more like it ...
Posted by: mmckinl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TarryFaster on Nov 23, 2007 5:19 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WILLYBILLO7 on Nov 23, 2007 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A Ballot for a People’s Referendum
The United States government is broken almost beyond repair, completely and totally under the control of business and non-responsive to the will of the American Citizen. Our rights guaranteed under the Constitution have been ignored and dissolved. We are engaged in a war that the majority of the People do not support. Our children and Iraqi children are being poisoned with depleted uranium and slaughtered. Our Veterans are being ignored and abused. Innocent Citizens of the World are being tortured under our name. Our environment is being destroyed. Monumental catastrophes in our country have been ignored. The system of elections has been corrupted. Our children are being denied health care. The illegal Federal Reserve System has stolen trillions of dollars from our economy and its laborers. The integrity, honor and spirit of the American People have been forever scarred.
It is long past time to take back this United States from the corporations who have become the government.
It is time to re-establish and refresh the original content and spirit of the Constitution of the United States of America.
This is a call to all True Americans to awaken from the nightmare that pervades our land….to create a new dream…..a dream based on truth, honor, integrity and real equality.
This ballot is the beginning.
DO YOU BELIEVE THIS GOVERNMENT…..EXECUTIVE, LEGISLATIVE AND JUDICIAL SHOULD BE RECALLED AND DISSOLVED AND A NEW DEMOCRATIC GOVERNMENT ELECTED DIRECTLY BY THE AMERICAN PEOPLE PUT IN IT’S PLACE?
PLEASE CHECK “YES” OR “NO’
YES____ NO____
Signature____________________
Email Address (optional, but strongly requested)________________________
Postal Address (optional)_______________
___________________________________
Please copy, paste and send to ignotzle@windstream.net
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Willybill
Posted by: David Wick
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Smartcookie on Nov 23, 2007 5:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wouldn't say it's childish, since I've known children who make most adults look bad. I'd say it's what each person really cares about is reflected in their behaviour, despite their words.
At the end of the day, if I say I care but didn't do anything, actually meant "I pretended to care, but I don't."
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: maxpayne on Nov 23, 2007 6:32 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Folks, we need to SHUT DOWN the "Consumer spending drives the economy" BULLSHIT
Posted by: urthsong
Comments are closed-
Posted by: boblecht on Nov 23, 2007 7:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government of the People, by the Corporations, for the Corporations is not Democracy--it is a hallmark of a Fascist State.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Nov 23, 2007 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: foolme1ns on Nov 23, 2007 7:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The republicans have become the most fiscally irresponsible, spoiled group of babies that America has seen. They criticize the democrats for being nannies. Well what do nannies do? They take care of children and make sure they don't hurt themselves or others. The republicans could use some good tough nannies. Nanny 911 comes to mind. It is time take the republicans and their irresponsibility and teach them how to work and play well with others without tearing up the house. The republicans are spoiled brats, wanting everything, giving nothing, and pitching fits or holding their breath when they don't get their way. They like their leader, George Bush, have become infantile tyrants incapable of controlling themslves, making them a danger to themselves and society.
It is time for some adult supervision over these horrid horrible children. We need people who are concerned with the common good.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 23, 2007 7:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
RE: Life during wartime.
[Report this comment] [Ignore this user] Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Nov 23, 2007 7:20 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When I came back from Nam, I went to live in the Haight.
Although there were constant protests about the war, it never seemed that so many Americans hated each other so fiercly as they do now.
Politicians are politicians and, they all have the indentical agenda, get elected, get re-elected and suck the benefits they can force the people to pay them.
All the rest is goddamn lies.
The great difference I see in the REAL AMERICANS of then and those of now is that, we have actually been DELIBERATELY torn apart with intense and real hate for 'the other side".
I will plainly state that I detest the fundies, and the rw neocons due to the fact that THEY are the ones who have bought into the lies and deceit of the politicians and are actually ASSISTING them in destroying what MY AMERICA is/was.
I was in the navy and got out.
When some of the guys I knew came home in pieces and boxes, I re-upped to go to Nam as, I was a corpsman and felt that I could help some of my buddies.
You cannot imagine how much I hate war.
And, because I openly state that I am against bastard's invented oil war, I am accused of being "against the troops" by candy-assed little chickenhawk wannabes who never were and NEVER WILL BE.
This is America??!!
Fuck no, not MY AMERICA.
I'm 68 now and am busy making my way as comfortable as possible for what I have left.
I remember the way people were then and the living and active hopes they felt for America.
I often miss those who were the voices in the wilderness back then.
Unfortunately, even if there were as many new voices and active protesters now as there were then, the evil US government would commit even miore murders than the murders they committed at Kent State.
This MISadministration is rready and willing to murder Americans to stop the REAL AMERICANS from ever having control of our coutry again.
As for those who are so naive that they think voting has any bearing on what happens, go talk to a tree or wall.
There is not one of these lying pieces of shit that are real, truthful or actually care about REAL AMERICANS.
I am fucking angrier than I have ever been about what these thieves are doing/taking.
We see the rare commenters on TV such as Olbermann who says some things and has some other talking heads on his show.
Although he is clearly not one of those 'tards such as those at fucked up noise, I'm seeing that it's a "schtick" for him and, it's all about ratings.
Here it is in reality:
NOTHING EVER HAPPENS!!
NOT ONE FUCKING THING EVER HAPPENS TO GET OUR AMERICA BACK TO THOSE OF US WHO DESERVE TO HAVE IT.
The self-serving scum ion government and the rw fundie neogoons who have been so easily conned by the hateful sewage in government have stolen what is left of Americas.
Can we PLEASE VIOLENTLY TAKE IT BACK??!!
FUCK THEM, IT IS OURS!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I posted - maybe this will help. I hear you brother.
Posted by: Lauren
» RE: I posted - maybe this will help. I hear you brother.
Posted by: urthsong
» RE: I posted - maybe this will help. I hear you brother.
Posted by: Lauren
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Lauren on Nov 23, 2007 8:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please send post cards with this message to Nancy Pelosi:
We want HR 333!
District Office - 450 Golden Gate Ave. - 14th Floor - San Francisco, CA 94102
(415) 556-4862
Washington, D.C. Office - 235 Cannon HOB - Washington, DC 20515
(202) 225-4965
Thank you.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Can Nancy get the message?
Posted by: urthsong
» I'm writing tomorrow...this is absurd
Posted by: rjgwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Nov 23, 2007 8:33 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it communism? Is it fascism? Same difference, actually. In the final analysis, the left-wing powermongers are no different from the rightwing powermongers - they're both obssessed with centralized control, and it really makes little difference whether Wall Street or the Central Committee controls everything. In both cases, wealth and power is concentrated in a few hands - monarchies worked the same way. Villas on the Black Sea, British aristo estates, sprawling Texas "ranches", Saudi palaces - they all smell the same.
The same goes for information (also known as "the media"). Totalitarians can only survive if people are kept in the dark about what they're up to (Rockefeller's first rule was "hide the profits"). The media's job is to inform the people of what's going on in the world - but the vast majority of the media - TV, radio, and print - is now in the hands of the very same people who control the energy flows. U.S. media is a gigantic propaganda system, designed to keep U.S. citizens consuming like crazy, to hide the real centers of wealth and power, to spur nationalistic jingoism, and so on.
The real goal now should be independence based on local control of energy and information. Independence from corporate control of energy flows can be achieved by relying on the sun, the wind, and locally owned land. Independence from the choking slime of the media can be achieved via the Internet - and also by just keeping your eyes open and paying attention to what your local politicians and government officials and corporate interests are up to.
These corporate energy and media interests are indeed massive - but remember this: a school of piranha have been known to skeletonize a cow in a matter of minutes.
This is definitely not about left-wing or right-wing politics, however. It's about conscientious independents vs. corporate-fascist-communist zombies and their zombie masters. It's about freedom.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wwsword on Nov 23, 2007 9:04 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The story we are told is that we should surrender all of our power to corporations and just let them govern us because a mystical but all-knowing godlike force called 'the free market' will eventually solve all of our problems."
"That story fits in very well with the conservatives' other story: that we are children who need to be protected from evil humans; and because corporations are amoral and not human, they are intrinsically and morally superior to evil humans."
But when the author opines "that we're a country of barn-builders, of communities, of intrinsically good people who work together for the common good and the common wealth," the argument goes badly off the rails.
This is not what we are. Rather, we're a country of colonizers, genocidists, and slave owners, of segregated communities, of corporate-bureaucracy-builders, of white males who work together to keep down women and despised minorities for the good of the capitalist and the capitalists wealth.
It is only because women, minorities, and thoughtful white men have rebelled against what we are that we have made any progress towards democracy. We aren't there yet. We surely can't go back (that's the conservative vision). We have to go forward, and that means overthrowing corporate state capitalism and replacing it with a true democracy - the last thing that our founders wanted us to have.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Article Needs Realism--True...
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: apophenia_monkey on Nov 23, 2007 11:21 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this however, is one of those missing the mark.
basing LAW on the preamble is never a good thing--do you honestly think the table isn't turned? 100-1 the asshats who voted for the PATRIOT act, or the recent bit of dung called HR1995, use YOUR EXACT logic for justification.
at that point, all you've got is how you FEEL/BELIEVE--not logic. and really, puts you in the same bed as those you critise.
poor lad, you've never understood the constitution--what makes me think that'd hange?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...
Posted by: ad132
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...--Pull my head
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...and yes
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
» RE: Thom Thom Thom...
Posted by: Ellie1
» Can't Debate The Point
Posted by: apophenia_monkey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Nov 23, 2007 11:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It grew into a cancer that spread thruout the entire Republican party.
Let's see... who has been in power for more time than anyone since that time? That would be the Republican party. They have been infiltrated so deeply that the middle of the road Republican is no longer allowed to speak in their party. Unless you are slamdunk hard right you have no say.
They are directly responsible for this mess.
You can lay the blame squarely on fundamentalist Christians who took over their party and have tried ever since to take it completely over.
What is the primary purpose of religion? It is to divide people into groups. Us vs. Them. Witness what the Middle East looks like. They are divided into groups along religious lines.
What has the religious right done here? They have used POLITICS as their weapon, using the exact same techniques that work for their religion. They know that they can't come right out and use religious language because they will be caught. But they're doing it nonetheless.
This is exactly why the Founding Fathers wanted a strict separation of church and state. Recal the bloodshed that was European civilization. It ceased to exist when the US was created. It was a direct result of that separation.
But now, it's back. And it's back because as a nation not enough of us are knowledgeable about the past. Not enough people understand the Constitution. Ignorance of the past dooms you to repeat it.
Well... it's repeating itself. We've become Sunni and Shia.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Who started all this?
Posted by: urthsong
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Blueprelude on Nov 23, 2007 12:39 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: dougo on Nov 23, 2007 1:27 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: TruthBought&$old on Nov 23, 2007 4:04 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To quote Jefferson, by far his most important words on tyranny continue to be ignored...
“The end of democracy and the defeat of the American Revolution will occur when government falls into the hands of [private cartel] lending institutions and moneyed incorporations.”
- President Thomas Jefferson
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: johndoraemi on Nov 23, 2007 4:57 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
File at:
MP3
Mirror site
Kevin Ryan of the Journal of 9/11 Studies decimated Michael Shermer of Skeptic Magazine. Shermer's skepticism was exposed as blindered and petty, reserved only for critics of the government with no skepticism directed AT the government.
Hartman was a good moderator.
Crimes of the State Blog
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: NumberSix on Nov 24, 2007 7:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The answer is:
"Apparently, nothing."
(Da-da-da-da-da....)
Pens down.
"What is the difference between the current USA and the final days of Rome?"
Winners get to keep their sanity.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: amiabledave on Nov 25, 2007 1:08 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Democracy, or its pretentions, come long after the slaughter involved in forming a nation, is complete. Which usually means stealing it from others. Our nation was fomed by genocide, slavery, and incredible self-interest.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: doubter on Nov 26, 2007 12:33 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses
Posted by: gator34
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Staggo on Nov 28, 2007 3:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Starbucks' Cop-Out to Gun Nuts: Customers Served Coffee While Strapped
ACORN Smear Collaborator Claims Persecution to Raise Money for Her Legal Troubles
Bad Policies Are Really What's Driving California's Huge Prison Costs




