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Rights and Liberties

Anti-Gay Movement of Immigrant Fundamentalist Christians Threatens Western States

By Casey Sanchez, SPLC Intelligence Report. Posted October 5, 2007.


Russian-speaking Christian fundamentalists, mostly immigrants from the former Soviet Union, have formed a ferocious anti-gay movement in the western U.S.
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On the first day of July, Satender Singh was gay-bashed to death. The 26-year-old Fijian of Indian descent was enjoying a holiday weekend outing at Lake Natoma with three married Indian couples around his age. Singh was delicate and dateless -- two facts that did not go unnoticed by a party of Russian-speaking immigrants two picnic tables away.

According to multiple witnesses, the men began loudly harassing Singh and his friends, calling them "7-Eleven workers" and "Sodomites." The Slavic men bragged about belonging to a Russian evangelical church and told Singh that he should go to a "good church" like theirs. According to Singh's friends, the harassers sent their wives and children home, then used their cell phones to summon several more Slavic men. The members of Singh's party, which included a woman six months pregnant, became afraid and tried to leave. But the Russian-speaking men blocked them with their bodies.

The pregnant woman said she didn't want to fight them.

"We don't want to fight you either," one of them replied in English. "We just want your faggot friend."

One of the Slavic men then sucker-punched Singh in the head. He fell to the ground, unconscious and bleeding. The assailants drove off in a green sedan and red sports car, hurling bottles at Singh's friends to prevent them from jotting down the license plate. Singh suffered a brain hemorrhage. By the next day, hospital tests confirmed that he was clinically brain dead. His family agreed to remove him from artificial life support July 5.

Outside Singh's hospital room, more than 100 people held a vigil. Many were Sacramento gay activists who didn't know Singh personally, but who saw his death as the tragic but inevitable result of what they describe as the growing threat of large numbers of Slavic anti-gay extremists, most of them first- or second-generation immigrants from Russia, the Ukraine and other countries of the former Soviet Union, in their city and others in the western United States.

In recent months, as energetic Russian-speaking "Russian Baptists" and Pentecostals in these states have organized to bring thousands to anti-gay protests, gay rights activists in Sacramento have picketed Slavic anti-gay churches, requested more police patrols in gay neighborhoods and distributed information cards warning gays and lesbians about the hostile Slavic evangelicals who they say have roughed up participants at gay pride events. Singh's death was the realization of their worst fears.

"After a couple years of fundamentalist and Slavic Christian virulent anti-gay protests at almost every Sacramento gay event in the region," said local gay rights activist Michael Gorman, "what the gay community has feared for some time has finally happened."

The Watchmen

Gay rights activists blame Singh's death on what they call "The West Coast connection" or the "U.S.-Latvia Axis of Hate," a reference to a virulent Latvian megachurch preacher who has become a central figure in the hard-line Slavic anti-gay movement in the West. And indeed, in early August, authorities announced that two Slavic men, one of whom had fled to Russia, were being charged in Singh's death, which they characterized as a hate crime.

A growing and ferocious anti-gay movement in the Sacramento Valley is centered among Russian- and Ukrainian-speaking immigrants. Many of them are members of an international extremist anti-gay movement whose adherents call themselves the Watchmen on the Walls. In Latvia, the Watchmen are popular among Christian fundamentalists and ethnic Russians, and are known for presiding over anti-gay rallies where gays and lesbians are pelted with bags of excrement. In the Western U.S., the Watchmen have a following among Russian-speaking evangelicals from the former Soviet Union. Members are increasingly active in several cities long known as gay-friendly enclaves, including Sacramento, Seattle and Portland, Ore.

Vlad Kusakin, the host of a Russian-language anti-gay radio show in Sacramento and the publisher of a Russian-language newspaper in Seattle, told The Seattle Times in January that God has "made an injection" of high numbers of anti-gay Slavic evangelicals into traditionally liberal West Coast cities. "In those places where the disease is progressing, God made a divine penicillin," Kusakin said.

The anti-gay tactics of the Slavic evangelicals in the U.S. branch of the Watchmen movement are just as crude and even more physically abusive than Fred Phelps' infamous Westboro Baptist Church, and they're rooted in gay-bashing theology that's even more hardcore than the late Jerry Falwell's. Slavic anti-gay talk radio hosts and fundamentalist preachers routinely deliver hateful screeds on the airwaves and from the pulpit in their native tongue that, were they delivered in English, would be a source of nationwide controversy.

Dennis Mangers, a gay former California state senator who now lobbies for the cable industry, said that when he met a prominent leader of Sacramento's Slavic community at a 2006 weekend reconciliation retreat, the Slavic leader told him: "You have to understand, we equate homosexuals with thieves, adulterers and murderers. ... You are an abomination."

Current California State Sen. Darrell Steinberg (D-Sacramento), who rode in a dignitary car in Sacramento's 2006 gay pride parade, told The Sacramento Bee he was shocked by the vitriolic comments shouted by Slavic fundamentalist counter-demonstrators. "The words are vile ... and words may give people the implicit license to take the next step and hurt people."

Last summer, The Speaker, a Russian-language newspaper with an English title in Sacramento, urged readers to attend a massive anti-gay rally: "Make a choice. It's your decision. Homosexuality is knocking on your doors and asking: 'Can I make your son gay and your daughter lesbian?'"

At that rally and others at the California Capitol, thousands of Russian-speaking teens crowded the halls of the Capitol building rotunda, wearing "Sodomy is a Sin" T-shirts. Scarf-wrapped babushkas held up signs that read, "Perversion is never safe" and "I am not learning about gay people."

'Masculine Christianity'

Last April in Salem, Ore., more than 700 Russian-speaking teenagers rallied outside the state Capitol against a pair of gay rights bills. It was the largest anti-gay protest to take place in Oregon's sleepy capital city since 1992, when the anti-gay Oregon Citizens Alliance (OCA) pushed a ballot initiative that came within a few percentage points of rewording the state constitution to declare gay people "abnormal, wrong, unnatural and perverse" and requiring the state to fire all openly gay or lesbian public school teachers.

The executive director of the OCA at that time was Scott Lively, a longtime anti-gay activist who is now the chief international envoy for the Watchmen movement. Lively also is the former director of the California chapter of the anti-gay American Family Association and the founder of both Defend the Family Ministries and the Pro-Family Law Center, which claims to be the country's "only legal organization devoted exclusively to opposing the homosexual political agenda."

The Watchmen movement's strategy for combating the "disease" of homosexuality calls for aggressive confrontation. "We church leaders need to stop being such, for lack of a better word, sissies when it comes to social and political issues," Lively argues in a widely-circulated tract called Masculine Christianity. "For every motherly, feminine ministry of the church such as a Crisis Pregnancy Center or ex-gay support group we need a battle-hardened, take-it-to-the-enemy masculine ministry like [the anti-abortion group] Operation Rescue."

Lively identifies "the enemy" as not only homosexuals, but also what he terms "homosexualists," a category that includes anyone, regardless of sexual orientation, who "actively promotes homosexuality as morally and socially equivalent to heterosexuality as a basis for social policy."

When he personally confronts the enemy, Lively practices what he preaches when it comes to "battle-hardened" tactics. He recently was ordered by a civil court judge to pay $20,000 to lesbian photojournalist Catherine Stauffer for dragging her by the hair through the halls of a Portland church in 1991.

The Pink Passport

Lively occasionally writes for Chalcedon Report, a journal published by the Chalcedon Foundation, the leading Christian Reconstructionist organization in the country. (Reconstructionists typically call for the imposition of Old Testament law, including such draconian punishments as stoning to death active homosexuals and children who curse their parents, on the United States.) But he's most famous as the co-author of The Pink Swastika: Homosexuality in the Nazi Party.

Published in 1995, the book is a breathtaking work of Holocaust revisionism. It asserts that Hitler was gay -- a claim no serious historian supports -- and that Hitler and other evil gay fascists were central in forming the Nazi Party, operating the Third Reich and orchestrating the Holocaust. (Lively's most recent book, The Poisoned Stream, similarly details "a dark and powerful homosexual presence" through "the Spanish Inquisition, the French 'Reign of Terror,' the era of South African apartheid, and the two centuries of American Slavery.")

The Pink Swastika -- whose cover has a swastika in place of the "x" in "homosexuality" in the book's subtitle -- has been roundly discredited by legitimate historians and was thoroughly debunked in a 2005 Intelligence Report article. Stephen Feinstein, director of the Center for Holocaust and Genocide Studies at the University of Minnesota, said the book was "produced by a right-wing Christian cult and is as correct as flat earth theory."

Lively declined to answer several E-mails seeking comment.

Nevertheless, The Pink Swastika has become Lively's passport to fame among anti-gay church leaders and their followers in Eastern Europe, as well as Russian-speaking anti-gay activists in America. Lively frequently speaks about the book and his broader anti-gay agenda in churches, police academies and television news studios throughout the former Soviet Union.

Lively credits the popularity of Russian-language translations of The Pink Swastika to the support of Pastor Alexey Ledyaev, the head of the New Generation Church, an evangelical Christian megachurch based in Riga, the capital city of Latvia. New Generation has more than 200 satellite churches spread throughout Eastern Europe, Argentina, Israel and the United States.

"One of my supporters gave him [Ledyaev] a copy of The Pink Swastika. He was very impressed by it," Lively said in a December 2006 radio show on WTTT-AM, based in Salem, Mass. "The European press was bashing them [Ledyaev and his church] for being Nazis. He was finally thrilled that he had something to counter the media with." Ledyaev did not respond to E-mails seeking comment.

Since then, Lively said, "I've been deluged by media speaking offers all over the former Soviet Union."

In Sacramento, editorials in The Speaker urge readers to buy The Pink Swastika. Even right-wing legislators in the California Assembly are said to audibly groan when Slavic evangelicals wave a copy of the pink volume during testimony.

Rock Operas and Reconstruction

The New Generation theology Ledyaev preaches borrows heavily from R.J. Rushdoony, the late founding thinker of Christian Reconstruction. Pastor Ledyaev's 2002 book, New World Order, calls for evangelical Christians around the world to influence the wealthy and powerful in their home countries to implement biblical law in order to stave off a supposed alliance of gays and Muslims hell-bent on destroying Christianity. "The first devastating wave of homosexuality makes a way for the second and more dangerous wave of islamization [sic]," writes Ledyaev.

Born in Kazakhstan, Ledyaev doesn't even speak fluent Latvian. But he's quite proficient in the international language of the anti-gay Christian Right. Ledyaev is close friends with Southern Baptist televangelist Pat Robertson -- a man who once predicted God would punish Florida with hurricanes and other disasters because Disney World had allowed a "Gay Days" discount -- and was invited to the 2006 National Prayer Breakfast hosted by President George Bush.

At 56, Ledyaev is still youth-oriented enough to promote his vision of global theocracy through elaborate, large-scale Christian rock operas that Ledyaev writes, directs and stars in, and which are replete with lasers, smoke machines, and spandex-clad actors in ghoulish makeup. One of the rock operas, which young Russian-speaking anti-gay activists promote on video-sharing websites, features a hero character wearing a tuxedo battling men in black tights armed with tiki torches. Over heavy-metal guitar riffs, a military-like chorus sings of "victory over the gays."

In addition to Lively and Robertson, Ledyaev has cultivated the support of Rev. Ken Hutcherson, the African-American founder of Antioch Bible Church, a Seattle-area megachurch. "Hutch," as the ex-NFL player is known, played a key role in persuading Microsoft to temporarily withdraw its support for a Washington bill that would have made it illegal to fire an employee for their sexual orientation. In 2004, his "Mayday for Marriage" rally drew 20,000 people to the Seattle Mariner's Safeco Field to oppose legalizing same-sex marriage.

One of Ledyaev's nephews saw Hutcherson speak in Seattle at a March 2006 debate on gay rights and arranged a meeting with the Latvian pastor. By the end of the year, Hutcherson, Ledyaev and Lively had teamed up with Vlad Kusakin, the editor of The Speaker, to form an international alliance to oppose what Hutcherson characterizes as "the homosexual movement saying they're a minority and that they need their equal rights."

Walking the Gauntlet
They took the name Watchmen on the Walls from the Old Testament book of Nehemiah, in which the "watchmen" guard the reconstruction of a ruined Jerusalem. The cities they guard over today, say the contemporary Watchmen, are being destroyed by homosexuality.

"Nehemiah stood by the destroyed city of Jerusalem. So are we standing these days by the ruins of our legislative walls," Ledyaev says on the Watchmen website. "Defending Christianity begins with the restoration of the walls which is where the watchmen should stand up." The group's mission is "to bring the laws of our nations in[to] full compliance with the law of God."

During the past year, the Watchmen have met twice in the United States, first in Sacramento, then in Bellevue, Wash. They gathered to strategize against same-sex marriage and build a political organization to fight "gay-straight alliances" in public schools and push for the boycott of textbooks that mention homosexuality in any context other than total condemnation.

The group has also convened outside America. In the summer of 2006, the Watchmen and their supporters gathered in Riga, Latvia, to "protect the city from a homosexual invasion." Gay rights activists in Europe counter that it's gays who need protection from the Latvian capital, not the other way around.

And, indeed, the city is a hotbed of violent homophobia. In 2005, for example, a group of 100 gay activists, most of them from Western Europe and Scandinavia, traveled to Riga to hold a gay rights march that was widely viewed as the first real test of Latvia's official commitment to freedom of assembly, a requirement for its tentative admission to the European Union in 2004. Under heavy police escort, the gay rights demonstrators walked a few blocks through a gauntlet of ultranationalists, neo-Nazi skinheads, elderly women and youths wearing "I Love New Generation" T-shirts. They were pelted with eggs, rotten tomatoes and plastic bags full of feces.

The mayor of Riga at the time was Janic Smits, a close friend of Pastor Ledyaev and a prominent member of his New Generation Church. During a parliamentary debate on whether sexual orientation should be covered under a national ban on discrimination, Smits quoted the Old Testament: "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Last year, Smits was elevated to chair the Latvian Parliament's Human Rights Commission.

Representing the White House?

When gay rights activists in Europe announced plans to hold a second Riga Pride march in the summer of 2006, the City Council voted to ban it. The gay rights protesters showed up anyway. Once again, they were pelted with eggs, rotten produce and feces as they attempted to attend services at an Anglican church that welcomed them. Swedish gay rights activists said that a carload of violent anti-gay protesters tried to force their taxi off the road.

Roving black jeeps with dark-tinted windows that carried anti-gay activists were a new element at the 2006 march. Decals on the jeeps bore the logo "No Pride" with a red line slashing through a circled picture of two male stick figures having sex. No Pride is a group organized and funded by New Generation Church member Igors Maslakovs.

A translator wearing a "No Pride" T-shirt bearing the same logo accompanied Lively and Hutcherson during their March 2007 Watchmen tour of Latvia. On that trip, Lively told a crowd of police officers that "the gay movement is the most dangerous political movement on earth" and repeated his claims that Riga is under siege by homosexuals, despite the fact that thousands of anti-gay demonstrators had countered the showing of just a few dozen gay rights marchers the summer before.

High on the Watchmen agenda during their March Latvia visit was expressing their anger over a $7,179 donation the U.S. embassy in Latvia made to Mozaika, a Latvian gay rights organization. The four-figure sum is pocket lint in terms of U.S. foreign aid. (According to tax records, nonprofit organizations run by Lively donated a similar amount to anti-gay groups over the last two years.) But the Watchmen didn't just protest the small donation. They did so in the name of the Bush Administration. Hutcherson claimed that the White House had appointed him a "special envoy" for "family values."

"I came to you representing the White House. In my country, people will know how Latvia responded to anti-Christian statements," Hutcherson told the Latvian parliament. "We need to stand for righteousness not only morally, but also physically and financially. It's a great battle for righteousness and no one can stop it. I promise to stand with you."

Hutcherson later said that he was designated a White House envoy during a February 2007 meeting between himself, Ledyaev and Jay Hein, the head of the White House's Office of Faith-Based and Community Initiatives. Hutcherson claims he has a videotape of this meeting, but so far has refused to release it.

In a written statement, White House spokesperson Alyssa J. McLenning refuted Hutcherson's claim: "The White House Office of Faith-based and Community Initiatives did not give Hutcherson the title, 'Special Envoy for Adoptions, Family Values, Religious Freedom, and Medical Relief.' The White House did not give Hutcherson any other titles and did not coordinate with Hutcherson on his recent trip to Latvia." Impersonating a diplomat is a felony, but the White House apparently is not pursuing the matter.

A Contagious Disease

Soon after returning from the March trip, Lively visited a Russian-language evangelical church in Salem, Ore., where he screened a video documenting the Watchmen's activities in Latvia. The 45-minute tape repeatedly refers to gays as "terrorists" alongside footage of Ledyaev leading crowds in a chant: "In the name of Jesus Christ, we curse the name of homosexuality!"

In a speech given after Riga's first gay pride parade in 2005, Ledyaev told his international congregation: "Homosexuality is a ... dangerous and contagious disease. The contagious should be isolated and treated. Otherwise, an epidemic will sweep through the entire community."

Lively echoed his Latvian ally's comparison of homosexuality to disease in a 2003 letter to the editor published in The Washington Times. "The homosexual movement in a society is analogous to the AIDS virus in the human body," Lively wrote. "It is not benign but destructive; it thrives at the expense of the host, and you're most likely to get it by saying yes to sodomy."

The Watchmen portray the battle against gay rights as nothing less than a biblical clash of civilizations. "The homosexual sexual ethic" and "family-based society" are at war, Lively proclaimed in his letter to The Washington Times. "One must prevail at the expense of the other."

That sort of militant rhetoric is standard among Watchmen followers on both sides of the Atlantic Ocean. Speaking to his American counterparts in a Watchmen video, a Latvian anti-gay activist intones: "Your generation beat the Nazis, and our country beat the Communists. Together we will defeat the homosexuals!"

Outnumbered and Fearful

Anti-immigrant sentiments already were rising among Sacramento gays and lesbians prior to Singh's murder. Slavic immigrant chants of "Repent, Sodomites!" at anti-gay demonstrations were frequently countered with shouts of "Go back to Russia!" Since the killing, anger at the local Slavic evangelical community has reached the boiling point. One typical online posting to a Craigslist Web forum was titled, "DEPORT RUSSIANS NOW!!"

"Satender Singh is just the beginning of the [P]andora's box," it read. "They come here [as] religious refugees and turn their newfound freedom on our citizenry. If they are going to [cite] evangelical religious rhetoric, then I say give some Old [Testament] eye for eye."

The situation heated up further on Aug. 7, when Sacramento authorities charged Andrey Vusik, 29, with involuntary manslaughter as a hate crime in Singh's death, saying that the evidence did not show intent to kill. Vusik, leaving a wife and children in West Sacramento, fled to Russia in July, they said, and is being sought by the FBI. A second suspect, Aleksandr Shevchenko, 21, was arrested at his home and charged with intimidation and interfering with a victim's rights, also as a hate crime. Authorities roundly dismissed the claims of Vusik's wife, who told The Sacramento Bee that her husband acted in self-defense after Singh's party became raucous and sexually provocative, shocking her "Christian" family. No independent witnesses or members of Singh's party supported that version, detectives said.

Meanwhile, Ledyaev and Lively have contributed to the tension by refusing to publicly condemn Singh's murder. Vlad Kusakin, editor of The Speaker, called the killing "tragic" but criticized The Sacramento Bee for publicizing the details of the murder, alleging that the newspaper was engaged in a Nazi-style propaganda campaign against Slavic Christians.

Between 80,000 and 100,000 Slavic immigrants live in the Sacramento region, the highest concentration in the United States, and the city is home to some 70 Russian fundamentalist congregations. A third of the Slavic population considers themselves evangelicals or "Russian Baptists," a doctrine that is unrelated ideologically or organizationally to American Baptist churches. (Ironically, many of them emigrated to the United States beginning in the late 1980s to escape religious persecution in what was then still part of the Soviet Union.) Meanwhile, nearly 10% of the actual city of Sacramento's 450,000 residents openly identify as gay or lesbian -- almost 45,000 men and women. Only a small handful of cities, like Seattle and San Francisco, boast higher percentages of openly gay and lesbian residents.

The disparity in numbers has not gone unnoticed. Even though many Slavic immigrants are not homophobic, there's a new and uneasy feeling among Sacramento's gay and lesbian population of being outnumbered by people who hate homosexuals in a city that has long been considered gay-friendly.

Florin Ciuriuc, a former executive director of the Slavic Community Center of Sacramento, told The Sacramento Bee earlier this year that he stopped leading anti-gay protests among his countrymen because "I saw that people were hungry for violence, for blood." Ciuric added, "I don't want people from my community killing each other or other people because they are getting aggressive."

Sacramento gay and lesbian rights advocate Wendy Hill, 33, said that when she came of age as a lesbian in the mid-1990s, Sacramento was a safer place. "As a college student, you pushed the envelope. You walked down the street hand-in-hand with another girl, even if you weren't dating." Now, Hill says, after a group of rowdy Russian-speaking protesters showed up outside her house one morning, "I get afraid of that now, walking hand in hand with my wife."

Hill, who has served on the board of several local gay and lesbian organizations, says that she first became aware of the city's large and increasingly militant anti-gay Slavic population in the spring of 2006 when she attended "Queer Youth Advocacy Day," a lobbying event at which around two dozen young gay rights activists were confronted by 350 anti-gay demonstrators. "I'd say about 90% to 95% were from Slavic churches," she said. "They were blocking sidewalks, physically intimidating. ... We realized how complacent we had become. We weren't used to that type of behavior."

Hill and her partner of eight years have two young children, a 3-year-old and a 1-year old. They used to consider Sacramento a safe place for a lesbian couple to raise a family. Now they're not so sure. "It scares me," Hill says, "to think that's something going to happen to my daughter because of who her parents are."

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Cell phone mobs
Posted by: YogiBear on Oct 5, 2007 12:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Cell phones make mob action easy. Some schools ban them not just because they disrupt class but because they allow kids to text each other into gangs whenever someone's getting into it with another student.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

These groups need to hate to make themselves feel better.
Posted by: SBK on Oct 5, 2007 1:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at the 1930s and 40s in their countries and this current behavior! It maybe a different enemy this time, but we should take seriously the poverty, low income jobs, and low self-esteem that continues to drive this nasty crap. Western states should call on our legislators and law enforcement now, loudly, to put an end to it before it gets out of hand. GLBT taxpayers have lived in relative peace in our states for decades and it is nothing short of unacceptable to ignore the obvious signs of where this is coming from and what it could lead to. It has nothing to do with the gay community specifically, scratch behind the hate for the pain that drives it! Protect our citizens and insist on real solutions! Not in my backyard!

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Civilization? Go to Sweden
Posted by: PJT on Oct 5, 2007 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a sad story.

In case you haven't noticed, intolerance is a fundamental characteristic of Americans. Look around you: the clock is being turned back on civility everywhere. Except for some thin strips of diversity and tolerance along the edges and in the big interior cities, America is a racist, sexist, anti-gay, anti-immigrant stew pot of Christian resentment and prejudice. Drive around in the rural precincts on a Sunday morning: you will see hundreds of cars parked at cathedrals of hate, where the message is that people who don't look like the picture of white Jesus and Mary on the poster down in the Sunday school are bad, that people who think about ideas are evil, the people who believe in the scientific method are Satan's spawn, that people who are different are to be destroyed in Hell fire. To be holy and saved you send your money to the church and the GOP. Don't question the authority of your betters, such as the pastor, the owner, the foreman, the president. In exchange for subservience, you rule your household and determine what your wife and daughters can do or not do, with their lives and even their bodies.

If you don't like it, go somewhere else. If you want civilization, move to Sweden.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Go to Sweden? Not so fast! Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Go to Sweden? Not so fast! Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Civilization? Go to Sweden Posted by: HoboHomo
Slavic Scum
Posted by: catullus13 on Oct 5, 2007 5:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here in New Jersey we have lots of emigrants from Russia, Latvia, etc. With all the brouhaha over illegal Latino immigrants, I tell people that the ones we should be concerned about are the scourings we get from Russia. Having met many of them, I think they are a major threat to our ideals of democracy and tolerance. Most of them are virulently homophobic, racist, sexist and sneering about democratic values.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Leman
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Intellect
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Leman
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: oregonox
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Leman
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: tya
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: Lauren
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: levp
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: HoboHomo
» Where I stand Posted by: Leman
» RE: Where I stand Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: JFeygin
» YOU'RE RACIST!! Posted by: madaha
» RE: YOU'RE RACIST!! Posted by: HoboHomo
» My Russian friend IS gay! Posted by: madaha
» Erroneous Hetero Posted by: HoboHomo
» Yeah, well . . . Posted by: hagwind
» RE: Yeah, well . . . Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: rroneous Hetero Posted by: Turiye
» One more article "gleaned" Posted by: HoboHomo
» You MUST be kidding! Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: rroneous Hetero Posted by: Lauren
» RE: rroneous Hetero Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Slavic Scum Posted by: MindyB
Yet more immigrant violence and crime. Any surprise? One wonders
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Oct 5, 2007 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
why these 'crimes' justify an Alternet article? Perhaps because the immigrants in question are 'white'? Or maybe it is because the victims are "LGBTs" and/or "non-white"? Of course, Alternet ignores the African-Americans, cops, whites, and others killed by Mexican immigrants. Or the DUI accidents. Or the rapes. Or the "serial killings", like the infamous "Railroad Killer" Ramierez. But an isolated event by some Slavic immigrants, who also were alledged to be legal immigrants primarily, in one part of the country is worth a whole article. Interesting, to say the least.....

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7-11 workers
Posted by: Shiv on Oct 5, 2007 6:17 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't most of these russians work in salons as crotch waxers?The ones who aren't offering themselves up for sale to pervets via catalogs that is. Of course there's also the brutal organized crime they partake in. If you want to get into stereotypes that is.

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» RE: 7-11 workers Posted by: bcgirl125
» RE: 7-11 workers Posted by: HoboHomo
Where it is coming from
Posted by: Nick on Oct 5, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
After Soviet Union collapsed,
all former Nazi collaborators that were hiding in Russia,
Ukraine, Latvia, Estonia, and Litva
and especially the ones that escaped to USA and Latin America began to come back and with the help of Nazis that escaped from Germany and settled all over the world, started forming different organisations that resemble all these Nazi organisations that existed in Germany and helped Hitler to come to power. Those that died left children to continue their work. The "Cristian Evangelicals" is one of them.
They still dreaming of "Rewansh"

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» RE: Where it is coming from Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: Where it is coming from Posted by: JFeygin
Yup
Posted by: Robba29 on Oct 5, 2007 6:31 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I taught in Sacramento. When we had the National Day of Silence at our school, aside from the traditional fundamentalist groups that opposed it, the Russian immigrant kids were down right rude, requiring removal from the class because they couldn't respect people's differences. Russian gangs in Sacramento, especially the Rancho Cordova area has been responsible for auto theft and chop shop operations, meth labs, and numerous murders. They are heavily connected through their church, and most of them will tell you that its because of the suppression in the former Soviet Union that their parents experienced. So, what you get is not just a born again mentality, but a born again and uber-survivorish type adherence to their version of scripture.

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Not Necessarily A Solution...
Posted by: Xynyx on Oct 5, 2007 6:33 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not going to suggest that this would have been a "good" solution... but I sure would rather have read that this gentleman pulled out a handgun and killed 3 or 4 of these bastards, sending the rest bleeding to the hospital, where they could be arrested for assaulting him and his family and friends. Instead, he's dead. I definitely don't feel good about that.

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thekidde
Posted by: thekidde on Oct 5, 2007 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
More proof of the virulent and inherent ugliness of religion and the self-righteous. Were Jesus truly "divine", he'd have come back long ago and kicked some serious ass.

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» RE: thekidde Posted by: Lauren
» duh Posted by: defrag
» Bingo Posted by: defrag
» RE: thekidde Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: thekidde Posted by: Lauren
» RE: thekidde Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: thekidde Posted by: HoboHomo
WHY anti Slavic????
Posted by: AmeriPole on Oct 5, 2007 7:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don’t get that! Why are they called Slavic-Christians?? Slavic Nations are not only Russians and Ukrainians!!! I feel insulted now!!! There are probably well over 100 million people that are Slavs and are neither Russians nor Ukrainians. If you look at those people closely you would see that many of them are Russian Jews!!! Only Jews could get out of former SU through Israel to US. Most of the older “Russians” in US are Jews!

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» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: levp
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: AmeriPole
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: levp
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: MindyB
» RE: WHY anti Slavic???? Posted by: lilybelle212
Ironically, I'm guessing half of these assholes are gay themselves.
Posted by: MAD on Oct 5, 2007 9:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whenever I hear of someone attacking homosexuals, I instinctively feel that they are probably gay themselves and beat others as a result of some kind of demented, misplaced self-hatred and deep sense of shame. People who are comfortable with their sexuality don't give a shit who other people sleep with.

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» Please... Posted by: tdcr
» RE: Please... Posted by: MAD
» MAD is a blatant homophobe Posted by: HoboHomo
This ain't news
Posted by: FedUp on Oct 5, 2007 9:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
San Franciscans have been aware of Russian and Ukrainian thug behavior for two decades.
Bill Cosby's son was murdered by Ukrainian gang members.
While everyone is focused on "Messicans", they've been operating under the radar.

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» RE: This ain't news Posted by: URBANHABUKI
arm yourselves
Posted by: karyse on Oct 5, 2007 9:40 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I know it's not a popular position here at alternet, but most of us "gun nuts" who live in a state wherein no one is afraid of an armed citizen, and wherein carrying is allowed, it rarely happens that someone at a picnic site would even dream of hassling a "possibly [probably] armed" neighbor.

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» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: juanpecan81
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: karyse
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: aerdrie
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: karyse
» RE: arm yourselves Posted by: YogiBear
The Catholic Church says sex is only for procreation...
Posted by: Landbaron on Oct 5, 2007 9:44 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What's the difference between a single man and woman using birth control, having sex for the sake of pure pleasure than 2 women or 2 men? Someone said being bi-sexual doubles your chances for a date, but they're all going to hell 'cos they're at the mercy of sex.....

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Guess What...
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Oct 5, 2007 10:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... The Christian Right LOVES these people. They do the work that home-grown Christians are loathe to do.

In addition, I recently had a run in with one of these nutcases. I was driving in traffic here in Chicago on a major thoroughfare. Came to a stoplight. A van had been behind me for maybe three or four blocks. As I came to the stop the van pulled up to the RIGHT of me in a clear lane and stopped. Since I have a license plate frame with the name of my business on it, I thought the person - who beckoned me to roll down my passenger side window - wanted to inquire about my service. That has happened before.

But no. The driver of the van had seen my TINY LITTLE decal on the back window. It was a three-inch rainbow flag.

The driver said loudly, 'Are you gay?' I noted the Slavic accent. For those who don't know Chicago we have a large Slavic population. Lots of Russians, Lithuanians, Ukrainians, etc. You name it. They're here.
I said, 'Who wants to know?"
The driver said, 'God doesn't want you to be gay.'
I said, 'Fuck your god.'

The driver sped away just as the light changed.

I can imagine what would have happened if this exchanged had occurred at night and not in a public place like a 4-lane road.

These people are a menace to society. They are a danger to civilization. Their religious mythology trumps laws, decency and morals. They are evil and love their made up bullshit far more than they love their own mothers.

And the Religious Right in this country loves them. They are the perfect foot soldiers to carry out the work they want to do but can't due to being scrutinized too closely. They'll be happy to let foreigners go to jail for maiming or killing a gay person. It keeps the onus off them. It's a perfect strategy.

And you want to know the best part of this new wave of Slavic anti-gay fuckwads? They have the LAW on their side. They are motivated to go out in to the streets to get their way. The squeaky wheel gets greased. They get petitions signed. They go door to door. They'll even shout as loudly as they can with bullhorns to get their way. They have no modesty because they're extremely undereducated. And they appeal to the worst elements of our society: severely retarded Republican Right Evangelicals.

It's only going to get worse unless US citizens and those of us who have history here reclaim our Constitution for us and not for some Medieval mythological claims.

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» RE: Guess What... Posted by: goatini
» additionally Posted by: goatini
» RE: Guess What... Posted by: MAD
» and furthermore Posted by: goatini
"Christians" in Name Only
Posted by: vasumurti on Oct 5, 2007 10:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't expect conservative churches to support lesbian and gay rights, but they really should be teaching tolerance and forgiveness.

Back in 1990, my friend Rankin Fisher, a former Missionary Baptist minister, who also happens to be gay, commented, "No religion can condone homosexuality."

That may be, but no religion can condone sex outside of marriage, either. People are doing these things anyway! Who am I to pass judgment on another?

"All have sinned and all fall short of the glory of God," is how the apostle Paul put it.

Paul told his followers to bless their persecutors and not curse them (Romans 12:14), to care for their enemies by providing them with food and drink (12:20), and to pay their taxes and obey all earthly governments (13:1-7). He mentioned giving all his belongings to feed the hungry (I Corinthians 13:3), and taught giving to the person in need (Ephesians 4:23). He told his followers it was wrong to take their conflicts before non-Christian courts rather than before the saints. (I Corinthians 6:1)

Paul taught "it is good for a man not to touch a woman," i.e., it is best to be celibate, but because of prevailing immoralities, marriage is allowed. Divorce is permissible in the case of an unbeliever demanding separation. (I Corinthians 7)

"This is God's will--your sanctification, that you keep yourselves from sexual immorality, that each of you learn how to take his own wife in purity and honor, not in lustful passion like the gentiles who have no knowledge of God." (I Thessalonians 4:3-5)

Paul told his followers not to associate with sexually immoral people (I Corinthians 5:9-12, 6:15,18). He opposed homosexuality (Romans 1:24-27) and incest (I Corinthians 5:1). He taught that fornicators, idolaters, adulterers and robbers will not inherit the kingdom of God. (I Corinthians 6:9-10)

Paul condemned wickedness, immorality, depravity, greed, murder, quarreling, deceit, malignity, gossip, slander, insolence, pride (Romans 1:29-30), drunkenness, carousing, debauchery, jealousy (Romans 13:13), sensuality, magic arts, animosities, bad temper, selfishness, dissensions, envy (Galatians 5:19-21; greediness (Ephesians 4:19; Colossians 3:5), foul speech, anger, clamor, abusive language, malice (Ephesians 4:29-32), dishonesty (Colossians 3:13), materialism (I Timothy 6:6-11), conceit, avarice, boasting and treachery. (II Timothy 3:2-4)

Paul praised love, joy, peace, kindness, generosity, fidelity and gentleness (Galatians 5:22-23). He told his followers to conduct themselves with humility and gentleness (Ephesians 4:2), to speak to one another in psalms and hymns; to sing heartily and make music to the Lord. (Ephesians 5:19; Colossians 3:16)

Paul told the gentiles to train themselves for godliness, to practice self-control and lead upright, godly lives (Galatians 5:23; I Timothy 4:7; II Timothy 1:7; Titus 2:11-12). He told them to ALWAYS pray constantly. (I Thessalonians 5:17)

Paul wrote further that women should cover their heads while worshiping, and that long hair on males is dishonorable. (I Corinthians 11:5-14) According to Paul, Christian women are to dress modestly and prudently, and are not to be adorned with braided hair, gold or pearls or expensive clothes. (I Timothy 2:9)

My problem really isn't with Christians not being able to follow Paul, but with the hypocrisy of saying "I believe," and then ignoring the rest of what their religion dictates when it suits them. Why not just be secular, like everyone else? (It would certainly make things easier for those of us in the vegetarian and animal rights movements.)

It's my contention all of us (Christians included!) really live in a secular society; one in which people merely pay lip service to religious ideals.

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» RE: "Christians" in Name Only Posted by: holt9106
xenophobic hate in comments is staggering
Posted by: madaha on Oct 5, 2007 11:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow. Newsflash - the problem is the fundamentalist Xianity, not people from slavic countries. The lesson from the article, clearly, is that we need to be tolerant, but all the commenters seem to see is yet another group to hate and bash. What is going on? It's not the ethnic group, it's the dogma!!

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» In America, Posted by: hurricane hugo
all "slavs" are not alike
Posted by: madaha on Oct 5, 2007 11:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to the haters: try watching a Dushan Makavejev film - much needed corrective to all the slav-bashing here. Sex positive, hilarious....I recommend WR: Mysteries of the Organism. Let's put this problem into perspective, and not begin to hate entire groups, please! We're better than that!

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quite a contrast in treatment
Posted by: Zenobia on Oct 5, 2007 12:04 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it odd that violent white immigrants are allowed to stay in this country without threat of deportation, but we are building detention camps for those brown ones who just want to harvest our vegetables and, if necessary to feed their families, are willing to clean our public restrooms and wash our sloppy dishes.

I am not SURPRISED, given who/what is in charge of the immigration process. But I am dumbfounded.

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Good Old Leviticus
Posted by: bcgirl125 on Oct 5, 2007 12:23 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amazing what people can justify using religion. Here's a great post I saw a while back on another forum, from someone called Richard Roe. I don't think he would mind having it reprinted here:

Good Old Leviticus!

Classic Quotes from Leviticus - Old Testament 1. Leviticus 25:44 states that I may possess slaves, both male and female, provided they are purchased from neighboring nations. A friend of mine claims that this applies to Mexicans, but not Canadians. Can you clarify? Why can't I own Canadians? 2. I would like to sell my daughter into slavery, as sanctioned in Exodus 21:7. In this day and age, what do you think would be a fair price for her? 3. When I burn a bull on the altar as a sacrifice, I know it creates a pleasing odor for the Lord - Lev.1:9. The problem is, my neighbors. They claim the odor is not pleasing to them. Should I smite them? 4. I have a neighbor who insists on working on the Sabbath. Exodus 35:2. clearly states he should be put death, should I do it or should I ask the police to do it? 5. A friend of mine feels that even though eating shellfish is an abomination - Lev. 11:10, it is a lesser abomination than homosexuality. I don't agree. Can you settle this? Aren't there 'degrees' of abomination? 6. Lev.21:20 states that I may not approach the altar of God if I have a defect in my sight. I have to admit that I wear reading glasses. Does my vision have to be 20/20 or is there a little wiggle room there? 7. Most of my male friends get their hair trimmed, including the hair around their temples, even though this is expressly forbidden by Lev. 19:27. How should they die? 8. I know from Lev. 11:6-8 that touching the skin of a dead pig makes me unclean, but may I still play football if I wear gloves? 9. My uncle has a farm. He violates Lev.19:19 by planting two different crops in the same field, as does his wife by wearing garments made of two different kinds of thread (cotton/polyester blend). He also tends to curse and blaspheme a lot. Is it really necessary that we go to all the trouble of getting the whole town together to stone them? Lev.24:10-16. Couldn't we just burn them to death at a private family affair, like we do with people who sleep with their in-laws? (Lev. 20:14) I know you have studied these things extensively and thus enjoy considerable expertise in such matters, so I am confident you can help. Thank you again for reminding us that God's word is eternal and unchanging.

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» RE: Good Old Leviticus Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net
Some misconceptions here about who these immigrants are
Posted by: defrag on Oct 5, 2007 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Sacramento situation -- BEFORE this murder -- has been covered extensively in the gay press for some time now. Most of the immigrants who came there were not Orthodox at all, but members of a Baptist sect, and as such were persecuted in Soviet times far more than the Orthodox were. With the help of US co-religionists, towards the end of communism they began to be allowed to leave. The immigrants were shocked to find tolerance toward gays in the area, and they found that hard to tolerate. But there have been no anti-gay murders until this one, which is maybe no worse a record than any moderate-sized immigrant group.

Not to let Russian Orthodoxy entirely off the hook, but I think a lot of factors are being conflated here, both in the article and in some of the overheated comments. Protestants & Catholics are not allowed freedom of religion in Russia even today, under a neo-tsarist "status quo ante" law of Yeltsin's to discourage Western proselytizing. (Like anyone who's suffered thru Western proselytizing, I almost can't blame them, but still....)

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Queer Reality TV Comes Of Age
Posted by: HoboHomo on Oct 5, 2007 12:27 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The BEST show we could have at this point--at least, for trash television--is your queer dating game. And just forget about having any sort of hetero cachet to make the show "okay" in the eye of the hetero-thug masses.

We should also have--on a more serious note--a well-written detective show where the star's sidekick is his (or her) same-sex lover. (Oh, wait, we already had that: Cagney & Lacey...har, har! And those names: reminiscent of a tough hetero Hollywood gangster James Cagney, and a very feminine material, because it's "lacy"...talk about role playing.)

I'm afraid though, that all this "loosening up" about gay presence on Amerikan TV will lead to:


GIRD YOUR LOINS (Sundays, 8-9pm MSNBC)

Amerika having OUTLAWED the very notion of even BEING homosexual, this new reality show,"Gird Your Loins", is a form of creative sentencing on those godless, sexual-minority perverts.

And since DEATH is the mandatory sentence for ANY form of action or speech that is not solidly heterocentric, anything goes! Torture? Sure, it's the logical next-step in queer television. But the torture spot will be merely an APPETIZER for the show's entree.

A gaggle of lispy homosexuals from Federal Security Prison's Death Row are released into this or that great Amerikan wilderness...a half-day ahead of our red-blooded hetero hunters (selected from a TV Guide lottery). The desperate queers will be hunted down in some of the most sensational and dramatic scenery to grace our national parks: God's Country.

Nano-cameras are implanted EVERYWHERE in the wilderness (thanks to KingGeorgeThe3rdClone), so no interesting scenes will be lost for (hetero) human enjoyment, ever...not even the most subtle nuances of terror, grief, and death-throe release on poor queers' faces. All in high-definition TV for the (hetero) viewer's ultimate enjoyment.

Interactive online selections by viewers will influence each hunter's choice of weapon, and method of targeting and hunting down the worthy victim. And best of all: they will also have some control over redirecting the escape routes of a queer they personally select on Gird Your Loins' web site. You can make a grizzly bear pop up when least expected, a sudden flood across a meadow...even small avalanches that threaten to crush the hopes of the escapee, if not the escapee itself! (And those hot love-making scenes before they are sent to hell...those desperate expressions of needfulness and holding onto each other...oh my, no wonder the show's on Sunday prime time.)

And since viewers actually PARTICIPATE in the hunt, this is the first reality show EVER, to be a real-life SIM adventure. So sign up now for your Breeder Cable subscription, and join one of the most elite and respected TV viewing services in the (hetero) galaxy!

GIRD YOUR LOINS, GENTLEFAGS...ON THE COUNT OF 10, RUN!

--
Let's secede from those who breed,
Make it sin to *not waste seed!
http://www.gay-bible.org

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Why no MSM attention here?
Posted by: Shiv on Oct 5, 2007 12:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the comments here claiming this is an old story begs the question why has it received no mainstream press attention. Had these people been Hispanics or Arabs would this be the case?

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» No, it wouldn't Posted by: defrag
They leave Eastern Europe to escape to be saved from absolutism
Posted by: american on Oct 5, 2007 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and come over here and establish it. Ironic. Perhaps it is inbued into their psyche.

Freedom and absolutism cannot coexist.

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» RE: Posted by: Aussie Kim
Deport those no good communists!
Posted by: humanity101 on Oct 5, 2007 7:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they bring peace, love and other values, they are welcome here. If they bring hate, we need to deport them. They apparently don't value democracy and humanity in our country. They can keep the hate back home where it belongs. Welcome to America but leave your craps behind, please!

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Same old shit different day.
Posted by: osd on Oct 5, 2007 7:24 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm sorry, sounds like grounds to deport there asses back to Russia. They can take there evan/moffia tactics with them. Or is it they " Doth protest to much." maybe they shouldbe checked for "off colored behavior of there sexual preferences." Men, continueing the abuse of others in the name of there manhood, it's always so impressive.

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I Wish That Show Myth Busters Was About Something Else
Posted by: InsertNameHere on Oct 5, 2007 7:58 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Isn't it about time we got over this whole believing in a sky-fairy thing? Let's lock it up in the same place as Zeus, Thor, and the like; in the mythology and ancient history section. Religion has had a pretty good run, but It's about time for them to step aside and let the rational people have a turn at the wheel.

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Latvia
Posted by: suprmark on Oct 5, 2007 11:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well I was actually there in Riga when the pride parade happened this year, and as you might have noticed by the author's lack of inclusion of any data from 2007 there weren't any major incidents. There were a fair number of anti-priders handing out stickers in Old Riga in the week leading up to the parade, but most people ignored them.

And not to say there aren't any anti-gay Latvians, but Alexey Ledyaev is not ethnically Latvian (male names end in 's' in Latvian) and is a product of Soviet occupation.

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» RE: Latvia Posted by: MindyB
Deport Hate Mongers
Posted by: Gravitas on Oct 6, 2007 11:20 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think we should deport known hate mongers. The Dutch actually give a test for citizenship where they check to see if prospective applicants are comfortable with their progressive values. One feature of the film they show is two men face to face kissing. If applicants are not comfortable, the Dutch feel they would not fit in with their society. They are not asking them to adopt Dutch values, only to live and let live. After reading this article, I think it is a good idea. We have a right not to let in people who would dilute the moral character of our society any more than it already is. They have NO right to come here and spread their hate.

I wish I hadn't read this article. I pulled some muscles in my back, and anger makes it worse. I am now filled with RAGE to the point I can't walk, especially since I lived in Sacramento and know what wussies the population is there. This would not be the first time they did nothing in the face of oppression. Shame on not just the ignorant Slavic homophobes, but the rest of the population that is not acting. "All that it takes for evil to exist is good men to do nothing." (author escapes me) HOW MANY TIMES DO YOU NEED TO HERE IT SACRAMENTO?????????

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» Here in the Detroit area, Posted by: hurricane hugo
» RE: Deport Hate Mongers Posted by: HoboHomo
Homophobia
Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net on Oct 6, 2007 9:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought the main tenants of Christianity were Love and Forgiveness. You all remember. Love your enemy, As you do unto the least of these , so you do unto me, the meek shall inherit the earth. turn the other cheek...or am I quoting some other person?

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» RE: Homophobia Posted by: HoboHomo
The Trouble With Islam
Posted by: HoboHomo on Oct 7, 2007 12:35 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I highly recommend this article from the Wall Street Journal:

The Trouble With Islam - Sadly, mainstream Muslim teaching accepts and promotes violence.

Here's a brief excerpt:

"But indeed, there is much that is clearly wrong with the Islamic world. Women are stoned to death and undergo clitorectomies. Gays hang from the gallows under the approving eyes of the proponents of Shariah, the legal code of Islam. Sunni and Shia massacre each other daily in Iraq. Palestinian mothers teach 3-year-old boys and girls the ideal of martyrdom. One would expect the orthodox Islamic establishment to evade or dismiss these complaints, but less happily, the non-Muslim priests of enlightenment in the West have come, actively and passively, to the Islamists' defense."

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» I also highly recommend: Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: The Trouble With Islam Posted by: vasumurti
» RE: The Trouble With Islam Posted by: HoboHomo
» RE: The Trouble With Islam Posted by: bansidh@citlink.net
Freedom of Speech.
Posted by: mushipeas on Oct 8, 2007 2:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is where we as American's have to realize that when people speak hatefully as a group and then ACT on it, it no longer entails freedom of speech it has in effect become a hate crime The speech accepts and fertilizes the hateful thought process behind it. Killing anyone because of a personal belief is wrong. Hurting anyone because of a personal belief is wrong. I have several people in my life who are 'gay,' in the end though 'they' are HUMAN BEINGS with the right to live life just as everyone else. It's insane how backwards this country is. I grew up with a completely different perception of the one I have now.

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Deport them NOW!
Posted by: sfmarty on Oct 8, 2007 6:13 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I live in a multi-ethic neighborhood and enjoy the diversity. However, I have had several run ins with Russians. The rudeness, disrespect and entitlement are a common theme I have seen over the last several years. I have no tolerance for people who come to the US to cause trouble.... deport them now back to Russia.

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This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: ussians and Eastern Europeans Posted by: AlexanderVX
Everyone calm down
Posted by: leftgayguy on Oct 11, 2007 6:13 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And take a breath. I'm gay, and this was a horrific hate crime. However hate is not the correct response to hate. Not all Russians are like this. What must be done is unity of non-Russian gays with Russian gays against all homophobia. Instead of promoting division, let's promote unity among all gays, regardless of color, ethnicity, national origin, or religion.

As for the historical revisionism, I've already known about it. Much as they try, they can't change what is true. Gays were victims of the Holocaust, and gays were persecuted, killed, and jailed during apartheid, slavery times, and the Inquisition. In none of those periods were we ever safe from persecution, and yet they want to turn history on its head.

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What is wrong with your judjement, people?
Posted by: AlexanderVX on Oct 16, 2007 3:41 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you think nobody else but Russians commit hate crimes?

I am a Russian person. I know other Russian people here, mostly my colleagues. No one ever would assault a person like those thugs. We are as normal as you are.

In fact that religion minority (those thugs belong to) was accepted by this great country as refugees. Most of people from Russia or Ukraine or whatever ex-USSR have nothing to do with them.

If you presume we are barbaric just because of our history with a lot of blood shed you cannot have worse misconception. People and power are never the same. And you better to look back at your own history too. Hate is not deficient there, for sure.

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Russophobia
Posted by: JFeygin on Oct 21, 2007 12:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am shocked at the level of Russophobia on this progressive message board. This small group of extremists are no more representative of most Russians especially Russian-Americans than are "terrorists" representative of most Muslims. If this were any other group of immigrants this board would have been alive with comments about how wrong it is that these people are being stereotyped (as it should). However, the myth of the Eastern European being boorish, dumb, violent and a threat to the enlightened west runs so deep that even the usually kind and rational people on this site turn into the worst form of xenophobes.

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white trash is a white trash is a white trash
Posted by: gluzd on Oct 21, 2007 8:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what else do you expect from the uneducated white trash? concerned about immigration? think about white trash that's already here.

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