COMMENTS: 63
U.S. Deports Parents of Dead Soldiers
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Before his death Soriano had promised his parents he'd help them get green cards. He only succeeded partially before losing his life. Although his mother was able to obtain a green card, his father did not qualify and is on the verge of being deported.
Enrique Soriano, Armando's father, is not the only person to have lost a son or daughter in the Iraq war and face deportation. There are more than three million people born in the U.S. with parents who came into the country illegally. Those born in the U.S. are automatically citizens and have all the rights and duties enjoyed by Americans. That includes military service with the possibility of losing one's life.
Losing a son or a daughter is always tragic. To try to compensate the families the U.S. government makes efforts to help. In the case of individuals with family members needing immigration help, officials assist them to obtain green cards. That's what happened with Soriano's mother. But in spite of governmental flexibility, certain rules prevent some people from qualifying.
Enrique Soriano had been formally deported in 1999 when he returned to Mexico for a brief visit. That makes him ineligible for any immigration benefits. Enrique Soriano is not alone.
Although exact figures are difficult to come by, many parents with sons and daughters who died in Iraq have been deported.
Official statistics show that more than 68,000 foreign-born military individuals are serving the U.S. How many of these individuals have relatives who do not have a legal right to be in the United States is not known. Figures from the National Center for Immigration Law show that one in 10 U.S. soldiers who have died in Iraq have been immigrants.
One estimate claims that five percent of those serving in the American military are illegal immigrants who joined with false papers. The military does not recruit illegal immigrants. Yet, given the shortages of volunteers, meeting quotas may put pressure to close some eyes. Illegal immigrants may feel that joining the military will help them and their families obtain legal papers in addition to other benefits.
Inevitably, some die in the process. The first soldier to die for the United States in the Iraq war was in fact Marine Lance Cpl. Jose Gutierrez, an illegal immigrant from Guatemala.
Enrique Soriano's case is also complicated by the fact that the rest of his family has a legal right to be in the U.S. His wife has a green card, three of their four kids are U.S. citizens, and another born in Mexico has applied for a green card. If Enrique is deported, the family will have to make the hard choice of going back or separating.
"I think it would be a travesty for these parents to be deported after their son died in Iraq fighting for his country," stated Congressman Gene Green, D-Houston. The congressman introduced a bill in the House, which would help Enrique Soriano obtain a green card. Nothing has happened yet.
Earlier this year President George Bush commuted the sentence of Lewis "Scooter" Libby, Vice President Cheney's former chief of staff. In so doing, the President spared Libby two and a half years in prison for his conviction for lying to federal investigators. The President cited Libby's "exceptional public service" and prior lack of a criminal record as explanation for his action. He concluded that Libby's sentence was "excessive" and the punishment "harsh."
In light of the sacrifice made by Armando Soriano, one wonders whether deporting his father is a far more "excessive" and "harsh" punishment?
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Comments are closed-
» RE: Iraqis don't like their arrogant illegal immigrants either, so what's your point?
Posted by: Fairybear
» I already responded to your concern about North American Indians.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: I already responded to your concern about North American Indians.
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Undocumented immigrants in this country help the US,--You cannot compare US in Iraq same
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: Not So!
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Iraqis don't like their arrogant illegal immigrants either, so what's your point?
Posted by: raisolav
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Iraqis don't like their arrogant illegal immigrants either, so what's your point?
Posted by: edgar_michel
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Maryanne on Sep 5, 2007 3:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In response to this article, all we can say is that there is no word strong enough to describe this disgraceful lack of appreciation of the sacrifice of certain of our military. America weeps at this violation of what has happened to American values.
And while this goes on, we are asked to "support our troops". This administration needs to take a page from its own book and learn to appreciate the sacrifices our military have made- broken families, children without parents, incapacitated veterans, and now this....But what can you expect from an administration that does not see people, only means to an end or collateral damage.
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» RE: America's disgrace
Posted by: raywigton
» RE: America's disgrace
Posted by: the islander
Comments are closed-
Posted by: freedom38 on Sep 5, 2007 4:30 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHY CAN'T WE JUST ACCEPT DEFEAT? WHY DON'T WE HELP REPAIR WHAT'S LEFT OF THE FAMILIES, SOLDIERS AND CIVILIANS ON BOTH SIDES WHO WERE HARMED? WHY INSTEAD DO WE HAVE TO RUB SALT IN THE WOUND?
WHY, IN OTHER WORDS, IS THIS ADMINISTRATION STILL IN OFFICE?WHY DON'T WE SEND BUSH AND HIS CRONIES OUT?
The Iraqi people have it even worse than us- shouldn't we help them, too?
To the author of the first comment: it behooves you to remember that those who "discovered" America were illegal immigrants. The English, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese all came over during the Age of Exploration without papers and proceeded to take over the land, robbing the native people who'd been living there since the first nomads crossed over the Being strait- the explorers killed with guns, germs and steel and took over from there.
Then, all of a sudden, once the US government was established, suddenly you were required to have papers and authorization in order to come here. During John Adam's presidency, Congress passed, of all things, the Alien and Extradition Act, which proceeded to "protect" the country against illegal immigrants.
Then the Germans and the Scots-Irish came over in the 1800s and had to work in menial-labor jobs.
Then, during the early 1900s and then especially during the World War, the Eastern Europeans came over. The xenophobic US government said, "Oh dear, too many foreign people are coming over here" and they turned Ellis Island into a customs place where anyone coming to the US had to go and get inspected. If anyone had so much as a cold, that person was turned back. Fanilies were separated that way.
Then we really began to close our doors- during the Cold War up to the present. Now we attack people who are simply trying to make a decent living- which you can't do working at a minimum-wage job, even if you're working full-time.
We are harassing these people, who aren't taking jobs, by the way- I don't see any US citizens willing to earn a living by scrubbing toilets or other such demeaning tasks. We are complete hypocrites, especially those of us whose ancestors are decended from those first immigrants- WHO ARE WE KIDDING? WE SHOULDN'T BE HERE EITHER!
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» When you're done wringing your hands and muttering "Oh dear..." try dealing with reality.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: When you're done wringing your hands and muttering "Oh dear..." try dealing with reality.
Posted by: mnascimento
» RE: When you're done wringing your hands and muttering "Oh dear..." try dealing with reality.
Posted by: Fairybear
» Pat, you're ignoring some basic facts:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Oh dear...you are correct
Posted by: MindyB
» I already responded to your concern about North American Indians.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» No American culture?!?!
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: No American culture?!?!
Posted by: mviscid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Sep 5, 2007 4:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"hell no, ya WetBack... go home!"
unbelieveable.
the World can be scraped off the feet of the ButlerClass & the Middle & Lower Classes will go along with it.
When we realize that HUMAN Rights, not American Rights is the issue, we may get somewhere in the Americas.
until then... the ButlerClass will just keep scraping the Middle & Lower economic groups from the bottoms of their shoes as they grind us down to climb over us...
but wait... there's more
as a Canadian, I'm perpetually staggered by the ubiquitous insistence that Americans are 'going it alone'in West Asia, while NATO service personnel are bleeding just as red for corporate & Bushevik lies in Afghanistan...
the sheer propagandic arrogance of US MSM is staggering.
...& Progressive Media just goes along with it.
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian ~~~
We, two, form a Multitude ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
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Posted by: Schroeder on Sep 5, 2007 6:21 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Don't you know???
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Don't you know???
Posted by: Schroeder
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 11:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Kittle, I applaud your not having any children. Not so much from a eugenics standpoint as simply for the sakes of any might-have-been personalities.
Now - do you see nothing wrong with this article is talking about? Anything at all? It isn't - this is a hint - about open borders, or the illegal alien question. It's about the parents of a US soldier getting screwed by the government once they got what they wanted from the kid and now they can't use him any more. Anything to say about that?
Ian
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» Whatever article that mentions a latino, Kittle turns it into...
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» a racist attack masquerading as concern about overpopulation?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: a racist attack masquerading as concern about overpopulation?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
Comments are closed-
Posted by: talkville on Sep 6, 2007 4:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something is terribly wrong with some rationalizations of what constitutes law and what constitutes ethics and what constitutes justice.
A dark and ugly thread is being woven into the "social fabric". Who are these weavers, and how to hold them to account?
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Doubtom on Sep 6, 2007 6:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ignorance of the crowd is astounding, when most of the postings accept the propaganda that any of these soldiers, including our own, are fighting to "protect' the nation. Most of you are sleep-walking through life without a clue that you're all cannon fodder for the super rich and ambitious.
The real problem goes well beyond whether our cannon fodder is home grown or from desperate nations which are even more corrupt than we are and therefor cannot or will not provide for their own citizens.
The main requirement for anyone wishing to join our military forces should be citizenship, otherwise he has no right to be involved any more than our citizens have a right to join other countries in their illegal wars.
We've gone from a conscripted military to a volunteer military which can't provide enough cannon fodder, so we accept other "volunteers" from foreign nations to fight our battles. And now, even with volunteers from other nations, we still don't have enough cannon fodder, so we contract with mercenaries to "augment" our forces.
And no one seems to be aware of the slippery slope we're on which is doomed to failure due to an appropriate lack of interest on the part of the American citizen. A fitting end to an illegal and immoral undertaking!
We can't fight our own battles and we can't even pick our own fruit; that's how pathetic we've become. Small wonder that we're so easily led by cowards to do their bidding.
Looking at how low we've sunk, it's difficult to imagine that this was ever a great country. We should be ashamed. Profoundly ashamed.
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» RE: The real point of this is---
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: The real point of this is---
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: The real point of this is---
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
Comments are closed-
Posted by: douglashoyt on Sep 6, 2007 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Corporate NeoCons Don't Care.
Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: Corporate NeoCons Don't Care.
Posted by: donl51
Comments are closed-
Posted by: trappedintwilightzone on Sep 6, 2007 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And God help Armando's poor parents. We certainly aren't about to get off our lazy asses or lift a finger to do anything for them.
There is no ducking the sickening truth: Bush and Cheney and their vile kind have only been able to get away with the atrocities they have comitted, and are only able to continue the carnage unabated, because we--YOU AND I--let them.
It will never stop until YOU AND I GET OUT IN THE STREETS AND MAKE THEM STOP.
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Posted by: reinaldok on Sep 6, 2007 8:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Loe_I_Am_Me on Sep 6, 2007 8:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These mothers and fathers get a message that their son or daughter has been killed and then they have to be subjected to the trauma of being ripped away from their houses and property?
What about the responsibility of the military to look out for the families of the soldiers who fall in the field?
Most of us who join the military have no other economic choice because our parents are close to dirt poor.
I was in the Navy for a while but was medically discharged.
I joined because my occupational choices were limited to bagging groceries. My family wasn't poor enough for financial aid, but they couldn't afford to help me with tuition either, so college was out of the question. I didn't make good enough grades in high school to qualify for scholorships or grants.
If these illegal immigrants have children born in the U.S. and then they decide that the only way to succeed in life is to join the military, I think their parents should be given automatic citizenship. It's only fair that if your offspring is willing to risk his or her life and you support the decision, then it is safe to assume that you want to be here.
What am I saying?
I forgot we live in the U.S.A.
Logic and common sense morality have no place here.
YEEEEE HAAAAW!!!
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 6, 2007 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As the government for the British in India the British East India Company was paying the expense of troops to defend their interests saving the budget conscious British government this expense. Some of India's princely ruler were puppets of the East India Company, and if such a prince failed to cooperate with th company, the company might dispose of him and annex his territory, ousting him from powe using the Indian troops (Sepoys) that it employed. Ninety-six percent of the company's of army of 300,000 men in India were native to India."
This is the whole purpose of the School of the Americas (www.soaw.org), now known as the "WHISC".
This is a very, very common theme, from white police chiefs in the not-so-old South who forced black prisoners to beat civil rights protestors, to modern-day Iraq where Petraeus and Rumsfeld armed and trained groups of Iraqis to terrorize the Iraq population. See, for example, this BBC profile of The Wolf Brigade.
Also, from antiwar.com:
January 3, 2006, US Military Still Runs With Dreaded Wolf Brigade by Gareth Porter
This really is the bloody legacy of psyops General Petraeus, who was responsible for training this brigade, among others:
"Given Iraq's well documented descent into sectarian violence in 2005, however, the question that should be asked is not whether the United States can put enough Iraqi troops into the field with enough training; it is whether, in arming and deploying Shiites and Kurds to fight Sunnis, it is actually stoking the fires of sectarian and ethnic civil war."
"The administration has gone to great lengths to avoid such questions. When Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, who was, until recently, responsible for training the new Iraqi military, was asked at a briefing last February what the religious-ethnic breakdown of Iraq's security forces might be, he claimed to have no such numbers. He was, however, being disingenuous. The U.S. command may not have had precise figures on the subject, but he certainly knew that the units being sent into largely Sunni cities and towns in the most rebellious parts of Iraq were overwhelmingly, provocatively, Shiite and Kurdish in their make-up."
"Petraeus also deliberately misled the reporters at the briefing by stating that "regional forces, both local police and…the Iraqi National Guard …tend to reflect the ethnic makeup of their community." What he did not say is that this only applied to the Kurdish and Shiite sections of the country. In Sunni cities and towns, the real policing was not being done by local Sunni forces but by Shiite and Kurdish commandos from elsewhere."
I'd love to see Congressional Senators grill Petraeus over this issue, but I'm pessimistic on the chances of that happening.
Anyway, the use of poor immigrants as cannon fodder in Iraq is entirely similar to the use of poor blacks for the same purposes in Vietnam. No surprises here. As for the death rate among children of Congressional politicians and Bush Administration members? No surprises there, either.
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Posted by: lawstudent08 on Sep 6, 2007 10:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: schister on Sep 6, 2007 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Comments are closed-
Posted by: davy on Sep 6, 2007 2:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: observer
Posted by: Loe_I_Am_Me
Comments are closed-
Posted by: donl51 on Sep 6, 2007 4:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm ashamed to say I'M an american
Posted by: Doubtom
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thehousedog on Sep 6, 2007 7:00 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on Sep 6, 2007 8:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It means cooking up and signing documents like the PNAC and outing CIA agents.
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» RE: "exceptional public service"
Posted by: werewolf
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Mars on Sep 10, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Karmic destiny being far more influential should scare the holier than thou crap out of them, before they loose everything they bloody (or bloodily) worked for, including invading another people's land, while we install our so called democracy there. Meanwhile, the average, new (versus Native) American is ignorant, or plain stupid to realize that only fat cat Cheney and his cohorts are taking the money and living like kings. Bush has pardoned Scooter, and white Americans keep electing these guys, because there is still too much racism in America!
I still have hope that people will wake up and smell the potatoes, cors, tomatoes, chocolate, peanuts, chili peppers, pumpkins, and so much more that the Natives gave them on that first Thanksgiving, (that we still have) only to be returned with infected blankets that cold winter.
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Posted by: Mars on Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Captain Nemo on Sep 11, 2007 9:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know what? When are we "Americans" ever going to wake up and smell the coffee in this nation?? When are we ever going to wonder that, as Americans, OR, citizens in this world of ours, ((We can always go to another country)), and wonder that America is destroying itself from within and without so much that, we as citizens, should just pack up our bags and leave!!! And then, when the whole world wants to destroy America and Israel, ((Hey don't call me a racist, my personal friend is a former Israeli soldier)), we as citizens, in this "America" they want to build on violence, we should let them reap the world wind if they want to be so "rich and shameless" in this country! If they want oil and violence, and think they want peace for it, you have got to be joking! Even US Generals throughout our American history have finally warn us, Presidents have warn us, ((Pres. Dwight D. Eisenhower when leaving the office, what did he say)). But is Bush, who is a draft dodging, AWOL from the Air National gaurd in 1971, along with his Vietnam War draft dodging Vice Pres. ever going to even learn their lesson about what could this mean? All us American citizens have to just look what is going on and better think, "Well, am I going to just sit here like a bump on a log, or am I going to think that maybe I should just pack up my bags and split the scene! Because America is about to reap the world wind! You would be surprised! I'm a former US Marine, my father was an officer under General George Patten, my Grand Father in World War 1, my great great grandfather, a boy soldier under General Shermon during the Civil War! Wake up America, smell the coffee! And make sure you pack plenty of survival, time to head for the hills of the world! I know what I'm doing for myself! I've been trained and bread to live high in the mountains!
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» RE: Captain Nemo
Posted by: Mars
Comments are closed-
» RE: Iraqis don't like their arrogant illegal immigrants either, so what's your point?
Posted by: Fairybear
» I already responded to your concern about North American Indians.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: I already responded to your concern about North American Indians.
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: Undocumented immigrants in this country help the US,--You cannot compare US in Iraq same
Posted by: MindyB
» RE: Not So!
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Iraqis don't like their arrogant illegal immigrants either, so what's your point?
Posted by: raisolav
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: Me "dumb"?? HEY! CAN YOU TURKIES GET ON TOPIC?
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Iraqis don't like their arrogant illegal immigrants either, so what's your point?
Posted by: edgar_michel
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Maryanne on Sep 5, 2007 3:22 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In response to this article, all we can say is that there is no word strong enough to describe this disgraceful lack of appreciation of the sacrifice of certain of our military. America weeps at this violation of what has happened to American values.
And while this goes on, we are asked to "support our troops". This administration needs to take a page from its own book and learn to appreciate the sacrifices our military have made- broken families, children without parents, incapacitated veterans, and now this....But what can you expect from an administration that does not see people, only means to an end or collateral damage.
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» RE: America's disgrace
Posted by: raywigton
» RE: America's disgrace
Posted by: the islander
Comments are closed-
Posted by: freedom38 on Sep 5, 2007 4:30 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WHY CAN'T WE JUST ACCEPT DEFEAT? WHY DON'T WE HELP REPAIR WHAT'S LEFT OF THE FAMILIES, SOLDIERS AND CIVILIANS ON BOTH SIDES WHO WERE HARMED? WHY INSTEAD DO WE HAVE TO RUB SALT IN THE WOUND?
WHY, IN OTHER WORDS, IS THIS ADMINISTRATION STILL IN OFFICE?WHY DON'T WE SEND BUSH AND HIS CRONIES OUT?
The Iraqi people have it even worse than us- shouldn't we help them, too?
To the author of the first comment: it behooves you to remember that those who "discovered" America were illegal immigrants. The English, Dutch, Spanish and Portuguese all came over during the Age of Exploration without papers and proceeded to take over the land, robbing the native people who'd been living there since the first nomads crossed over the Being strait- the explorers killed with guns, germs and steel and took over from there.
Then, all of a sudden, once the US government was established, suddenly you were required to have papers and authorization in order to come here. During John Adam's presidency, Congress passed, of all things, the Alien and Extradition Act, which proceeded to "protect" the country against illegal immigrants.
Then the Germans and the Scots-Irish came over in the 1800s and had to work in menial-labor jobs.
Then, during the early 1900s and then especially during the World War, the Eastern Europeans came over. The xenophobic US government said, "Oh dear, too many foreign people are coming over here" and they turned Ellis Island into a customs place where anyone coming to the US had to go and get inspected. If anyone had so much as a cold, that person was turned back. Fanilies were separated that way.
Then we really began to close our doors- during the Cold War up to the present. Now we attack people who are simply trying to make a decent living- which you can't do working at a minimum-wage job, even if you're working full-time.
We are harassing these people, who aren't taking jobs, by the way- I don't see any US citizens willing to earn a living by scrubbing toilets or other such demeaning tasks. We are complete hypocrites, especially those of us whose ancestors are decended from those first immigrants- WHO ARE WE KIDDING? WE SHOULDN'T BE HERE EITHER!
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» When you're done wringing your hands and muttering "Oh dear..." try dealing with reality.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: When you're done wringing your hands and muttering "Oh dear..." try dealing with reality.
Posted by: mnascimento
» RE: When you're done wringing your hands and muttering "Oh dear..." try dealing with reality.
Posted by: Fairybear
» Pat, you're ignoring some basic facts:
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Oh dear...you are correct
Posted by: MindyB
» I already responded to your concern about North American Indians.
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» No American culture?!?!
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: No American culture?!?!
Posted by: mviscid
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Sep 5, 2007 4:45 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"hell no, ya WetBack... go home!"
unbelieveable.
the World can be scraped off the feet of the ButlerClass & the Middle & Lower Classes will go along with it.
When we realize that HUMAN Rights, not American Rights is the issue, we may get somewhere in the Americas.
until then... the ButlerClass will just keep scraping the Middle & Lower economic groups from the bottoms of their shoes as they grind us down to climb over us...
but wait... there's more
as a Canadian, I'm perpetually staggered by the ubiquitous insistence that Americans are 'going it alone'in West Asia, while NATO service personnel are bleeding just as red for corporate & Bushevik lies in Afghanistan...
the sheer propagandic arrogance of US MSM is staggering.
...& Progressive Media just goes along with it.
Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!
BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian ~~~
We, two, form a Multitude ~ Ovid.
~~~
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Schroeder on Sep 5, 2007 6:21 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Don't you know???
Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Don't you know???
Posted by: Schroeder
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Sep 5, 2007 11:01 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And Kittle, I applaud your not having any children. Not so much from a eugenics standpoint as simply for the sakes of any might-have-been personalities.
Now - do you see nothing wrong with this article is talking about? Anything at all? It isn't - this is a hint - about open borders, or the illegal alien question. It's about the parents of a US soldier getting screwed by the government once they got what they wanted from the kid and now they can't use him any more. Anything to say about that?
Ian
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» Whatever article that mentions a latino, Kittle turns it into...
Posted by: El Hombre Malo
» a racist attack masquerading as concern about overpopulation?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: a racist attack masquerading as concern about overpopulation?
Posted by: Joshua Holland
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Posted by: talkville on Sep 6, 2007 4:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Something is terribly wrong with some rationalizations of what constitutes law and what constitutes ethics and what constitutes justice.
A dark and ugly thread is being woven into the "social fabric". Who are these weavers, and how to hold them to account?
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Posted by: Doubtom on Sep 6, 2007 6:10 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The ignorance of the crowd is astounding, when most of the postings accept the propaganda that any of these soldiers, including our own, are fighting to "protect' the nation. Most of you are sleep-walking through life without a clue that you're all cannon fodder for the super rich and ambitious.
The real problem goes well beyond whether our cannon fodder is home grown or from desperate nations which are even more corrupt than we are and therefor cannot or will not provide for their own citizens.
The main requirement for anyone wishing to join our military forces should be citizenship, otherwise he has no right to be involved any more than our citizens have a right to join other countries in their illegal wars.
We've gone from a conscripted military to a volunteer military which can't provide enough cannon fodder, so we accept other "volunteers" from foreign nations to fight our battles. And now, even with volunteers from other nations, we still don't have enough cannon fodder, so we contract with mercenaries to "augment" our forces.
And no one seems to be aware of the slippery slope we're on which is doomed to failure due to an appropriate lack of interest on the part of the American citizen. A fitting end to an illegal and immoral undertaking!
We can't fight our own battles and we can't even pick our own fruit; that's how pathetic we've become. Small wonder that we're so easily led by cowards to do their bidding.
Looking at how low we've sunk, it's difficult to imagine that this was ever a great country. We should be ashamed. Profoundly ashamed.
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» RE: The real point of this is---
Posted by: rinthy
» RE: The real point of this is---
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: The real point of this is---
Posted by: Ian MacLeod
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Posted by: douglashoyt on Sep 6, 2007 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Corporate NeoCons Don't Care.
Posted by: trappedintwilightzone
» RE: Corporate NeoCons Don't Care.
Posted by: donl51
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Posted by: trappedintwilightzone on Sep 6, 2007 8:16 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And God help Armando's poor parents. We certainly aren't about to get off our lazy asses or lift a finger to do anything for them.
There is no ducking the sickening truth: Bush and Cheney and their vile kind have only been able to get away with the atrocities they have comitted, and are only able to continue the carnage unabated, because we--YOU AND I--let them.
It will never stop until YOU AND I GET OUT IN THE STREETS AND MAKE THEM STOP.
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Posted by: reinaldok on Sep 6, 2007 8:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Loe_I_Am_Me on Sep 6, 2007 8:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These mothers and fathers get a message that their son or daughter has been killed and then they have to be subjected to the trauma of being ripped away from their houses and property?
What about the responsibility of the military to look out for the families of the soldiers who fall in the field?
Most of us who join the military have no other economic choice because our parents are close to dirt poor.
I was in the Navy for a while but was medically discharged.
I joined because my occupational choices were limited to bagging groceries. My family wasn't poor enough for financial aid, but they couldn't afford to help me with tuition either, so college was out of the question. I didn't make good enough grades in high school to qualify for scholorships or grants.
If these illegal immigrants have children born in the U.S. and then they decide that the only way to succeed in life is to join the military, I think their parents should be given automatic citizenship. It's only fair that if your offspring is willing to risk his or her life and you support the decision, then it is safe to assume that you want to be here.
What am I saying?
I forgot we live in the U.S.A.
Logic and common sense morality have no place here.
YEEEEE HAAAAW!!!
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Sep 6, 2007 9:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As the government for the British in India the British East India Company was paying the expense of troops to defend their interests saving the budget conscious British government this expense. Some of India's princely ruler were puppets of the East India Company, and if such a prince failed to cooperate with th company, the company might dispose of him and annex his territory, ousting him from powe using the Indian troops (Sepoys) that it employed. Ninety-six percent of the company's of army of 300,000 men in India were native to India."
This is the whole purpose of the School of the Americas (www.soaw.org), now known as the "WHISC".
This is a very, very common theme, from white police chiefs in the not-so-old South who forced black prisoners to beat civil rights protestors, to modern-day Iraq where Petraeus and Rumsfeld armed and trained groups of Iraqis to terrorize the Iraq population. See, for example, this BBC profile of The Wolf Brigade.
Also, from antiwar.com:
January 3, 2006, US Military Still Runs With Dreaded Wolf Brigade by Gareth Porter
This really is the bloody legacy of psyops General Petraeus, who was responsible for training this brigade, among others:
"Given Iraq's well documented descent into sectarian violence in 2005, however, the question that should be asked is not whether the United States can put enough Iraqi troops into the field with enough training; it is whether, in arming and deploying Shiites and Kurds to fight Sunnis, it is actually stoking the fires of sectarian and ethnic civil war."
"The administration has gone to great lengths to avoid such questions. When Lt. Gen. David Petraeus, who was, until recently, responsible for training the new Iraqi military, was asked at a briefing last February what the religious-ethnic breakdown of Iraq's security forces might be, he claimed to have no such numbers. He was, however, being disingenuous. The U.S. command may not have had precise figures on the subject, but he certainly knew that the units being sent into largely Sunni cities and towns in the most rebellious parts of Iraq were overwhelmingly, provocatively, Shiite and Kurdish in their make-up."
"Petraeus also deliberately misled the reporters at the briefing by stating that "regional forces, both local police and…the Iraqi National Guard …tend to reflect the ethnic makeup of their community." What he did not say is that this only applied to the Kurdish and Shiite sections of the country. In Sunni cities and towns, the real policing was not being done by local Sunni forces but by Shiite and Kurdish commandos from elsewhere."
I'd love to see Congressional Senators grill Petraeus over this issue, but I'm pessimistic on the chances of that happening.
Anyway, the use of poor immigrants as cannon fodder in Iraq is entirely similar to the use of poor blacks for the same purposes in Vietnam. No surprises here. As for the death rate among children of Congressional politicians and Bush Administration members? No surprises there, either.
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Posted by: lawstudent08 on Sep 6, 2007 10:09 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: schister on Sep 6, 2007 10:50 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: davy on Sep 6, 2007 2:03 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: observer
Posted by: Loe_I_Am_Me
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Posted by: donl51 on Sep 6, 2007 4:06 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: I'm ashamed to say I'M an american
Posted by: Doubtom
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Posted by: thehousedog on Sep 6, 2007 7:00 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: TruthBeTold on Sep 6, 2007 8:26 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It means cooking up and signing documents like the PNAC and outing CIA agents.
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» RE: "exceptional public service"
Posted by: werewolf
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Posted by: Mars on Sep 10, 2007 3:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Karmic destiny being far more influential should scare the holier than thou crap out of them, before they loose everything they bloody (or bloodily) worked for, including invading another people's land, while we install our so called democracy there. Meanwhile, the average, new (versus Native) American is ignorant, or plain stupid to realize that only fat cat Cheney and his cohorts are taking the money and living like kings. Bush has pardoned Scooter, and white Americans keep electing these guys, because there is still too much racism in America!
I still have hope that people will wake up and smell the potatoes, cors, tomatoes, chocolate, peanuts, chili peppers, pumpkins, and so much more that the Natives gave them on that first Thanksgiving, (that we still have) only to be returned with infected blankets that cold winter.
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Posted by: Mars on Sep 10, 2007 3:48 PM
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Posted by: Captain Nemo on Sep 11, 2007 9:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know what? When are we "Americans" ever going to wake up and smell the coffee in this nation?? When are we ever going to wonder that, as Americans, OR, citizens in this world of ours, ((We can always go to another country)), and wonder that America is destroying itself from within and without so much that, we as citizens, should just pack up our bags and leave!!! And then, when the whole world wants to destroy America and Israel, ((Hey don't call me a racist, my personal friend is a former Israeli soldier)), we as citizens, in this "America" they want to build on violence, we should let them reap the world wind if they want to be so "rich and shameless" in this country! If they want oil and violence, and think they want peace for it, you have got to be joking! Even US Generals throughout our American history have finally warn us, Presidents have warn us, ((Pres. Dwight D. Eisenhower when leaving the office, what did he say)). But is Bush, who is a draft dodging, AWOL from the Air National gaurd in 1971, along with his Vietnam War draft dodging Vice Pres. ever going to even learn their lesson about what could this mean? All us American citizens have to just look what is going on and better think, "Well, am I going to just sit here like a bump on a log, or am I going to think that maybe I should just pack up my bags and split the scene! Because America is about to reap the world wind! You would be surprised! I'm a former US Marine, my father was an officer under General George Patten, my Grand Father in World War 1, my great great grandfather, a boy soldier under General Shermon during the Civil War! Wake up America, smell the coffee! And make sure you pack plenty of survival, time to head for the hills of the world! I know what I'm doing for myself! I've been trained and bread to live high in the mountains!
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» RE: Captain Nemo
Posted by: Mars
Starbucks' Cop-Out to Gun Nuts: Customers Served Coffee While Strapped
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