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Rights and Liberties

Disappeared: Five Years in Guantanamo

By Lou Dubose, The Washington Spectator. Posted July 7, 2007.


In 2001, 19-year-old Murat Kurnaz was an innocent man caught in the wrong place at the wrong time. Accused of being a terrorist, he spent five years in Guantanamo before being released -- now he's telling his story.
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FIFTEEN AMERICAN SOLDIERS WATCHED over a man, shackled to a seat in the cargo bay of a C-17 Globemaster -- the Air Force workhorse that usually moves Abrams tanks, Chinook helicopters or infantry vehicles. Wearing goggles that shut out all light, a soundproof headset and a mask that covered his mouth so he could not speak, spit or bite, the prisoner arrived at Ramstein Air Force Base in Kaiserslautern, Germany, under the tightest security. The plane had burned through 36,000 gallons of jet fuel and had refueled in flight. During the seventeen-hour ride, the prisoner was provided with neither food nor water. Nor was he allowed to stretch his legs or relieve himself.

This was how what had been the world's greatest democracy when George W. Bush took the presidential oath in 2001 repatriated an innocent man who'd never represented a security threat to the United States. Murat Kurnaz was nineteen when he was taken off a bus in Peshawar, Pakistan. He had, as many first- or second-generation Muslims in Europe do, turned to a religion his family had abandoned when they emigrated from their native land. His religious awakening put him in proximity to Islamic fundamentalists: sufficient justification for detention by American forces, after the terrorist attacks of 9/11, as a supposed member of Al Qaeda.

Kurnaz was twenty-four and had been the last European held at the American prison camp in Cuba when the Globemaster touched down in Kaiserslautern in August 2006. He didn't know he'd been returned home to Germany until an American enlisted man removed his goggles and he saw three German policemen standing outside the airplane.

"He was dumped on German soil like some sort of alien," said Bernhard Docke, one of Kurnaz's attorneys, from the north German city of Bremen.

Murat’s Story

Murat Kurnaz, German born of Turkish parents, could be an expert witness and fact witness for any legislative or judicial procedure that would cast a cold eye on the transgressions of law, the Constitution or the fundamental precepts of human rights perpetrated by George Bush's terror warriors. Pick your amendment. Fifth: one is not compelled to be a witness against oneself, or deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law. Eighth: protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Fourteenth: the state cannot deprive someone of life, liberty or property without due process.

The habeas corpus statute? For innocent detainees caught up in the sweeps that followed the terrorist attacks of September 11, 2001, there is no legitimate legal process that can be resorted to. No legal cause of action against the U.S. government. Not even an apology, if you're released.

"They threw my clothes over the fence," Kurnaz said in an interview in his lawyer's office in Bremen. "They told me, get ready to move. I thought to another prison; then I was back in Germany." That the U.S. soldiers continued to curse and humiliate him during the flight from Guantánamo gave him reason to believe he wasn't flying home to freedom. "They treated me the same as always," he said. "Like I was the number one terrorist."

Kurnaz represents a secondary problem related to the human rights violations occurring in the prison system Donald Rumsfeld situated ninety miles from Key West, beyond the reach of American law. After a prisoner has been subjected to "enhanced interrogation" (a phrase in U.S. military manuals and memos that is a direct translation of verschärfte Vernehmung, a euphemism for torture the Gestapo coined in 1937), you don't want him returning home to tell his story.

But that's precisely what Murat Kurnaz has done. His Fünf Jahre meines Lebens: Ein Bericht aus Guantánamo (Five Years of My Life: A Report from Guantánamo), is a straightforward account of his rendition, torture, detention and interrogation by American forces--torture that continued in Guantánamo. It even identifies a few of his tormentors, whose name tags were visible until Major General Geoffrey Miller took command and ordered all American personnel to remove anything that might identify them.

Kurnaz is beginning to appear in public to promote his book, described in the June 7 issue of The Economist as "a Swiftian tale" of a man who "survived by brawn and brains." On June 19 he was a guest on the TV show Beckamm, Germany's equivalent of PBS's Charlie Rose. On the same day in Washington, George Bush's nomination for the CIA's general counsel, John Rizzo, spent an hour equivocating before the Senate Intelligence Committee regarding one subject with which Kurnaz has experience: torture.

For one man torture was abstract and theoretical. For the other, it was concrete and immediate.

CIA counsel nominee Rizzo said in response to a question asked by Senator Carl Levin (D-MI): "I'm trying to be responsive . . . without getting into a detailed explanation. We believed then and we have believed throughout this process that the CIA program, as it was conceived, when taken in toto, justifies the conclusion that the program was, from the outset, and remains conducted in a humane fashion."

Murat Kurnaz was more direct. "In Kandahar," he said, "they hanged me by my hands."

A massive, muscular man with a long reddish beard down to his chest and hair pulled back in a ponytail, Kurnaz speaks good, if basic English. He's a bit of a contradiction: a fundamentalist Muslim who drives a sports car and dresses as though he selects his clothes from GQ ads. His English improved considerably at Guantánamo. Kurnaz reluctantly agrees to interviews with reporters, though he earned a substantial amount of money for two exclusives with Der Stern magazine and a German television network. He tends to end interviews abruptly with the same line.

"I have to stop now."

From Jail to Justice

There are two Murat Kurnaz narratives. One is found in the paper trail and legal pleadings assembled by his two lawyers, Bernhard Docke in Bremen, Germany, and Baher Azmy from Seton Hall Law School in New Jersey. The other is his personal account of his five years in American custody.

The legal process by which Kurnaz was freed from Guantánamo was, in a sense, irrelevant. It's not precedent-setting, because there is no effective process that provides detainees access to justice. He is one of very few whose situation was eventually considered by an American court. His case is the best example of why the military tribunals conducting trials at Guantánamo are fundamentally flawed.

In January 2005, Washington, D.C., federal district Judge Joyce Hens Green ruled on Kurnaz's case, along with the cases of ten other detainees. During his Combat Review Status Hearing in Guantánamo, Kurnaz had appeared before a panel of three military officers. He had no legal representation and was not allowed to see the classified evidence used to declare him a member of Al Qaeda. Before his hearing in Washington, some of the classified evidence used against him was inadvertently declassified and obtained by the Washington Post> It included reports that established that two years earlier, the Command Intelligence Task Force that oversees Guantánamo had concluded there was "no definite link/evidence of detainee having an association with Al Qaeda or making specific threats against the U.S."

Judge Green reviewed the evidence and found nothing that justified holding Murat Kurnaz in prison. Among the hundreds of pages used to declare him a member of Al Qaeda, the smoking gun was a single document with vague allegations made by an unidentified officer. The judge was disturbed by the fact that Kurnaz, like other detainees, was never permitted to see or rebut the allegations that kept him in a cage in Guantánamo.

During the trial it was also revealed that a friend of Kurnaz's who was reported to have carried out a suicide bombing in Turkey--another bit of incriminating evidence--was alive and well in Bremen. And that German intelligence officers traveled to Guantánamo to interview Kurnaz and concluded he had not been involved in any terrorist activity in Germany. They even tried, at one point, to recruit him to return to Bremen and work undercover for them in the mosque he attended before going to Pakistan to study Islam. They later concluded he was so unconnected--and unsophisticated--he would be of no use to them as a snitch.

Yet nothing the judge did would result in his release. Judge Green ruled in his favor, devoting a number of pages in her 75-page opinion (some redacted) to the government's sloppy prosecution and lack of evidence against this man. But the heart of her ruling was that the process was basically illegal. The ruling was stayed, pending a decision at the appellate level. And after the trial, the then-Republican Congress passed the Military Commissions Act, which included a controversial provision by Senator Lindsey Graham (R-SC) that denyed all detainees the right to file habeas corpus petitions. The habeas corpus right that Judge Green had provided as an avenue out of Guantánamo was stripped away by Congress.

Kurnaz was released only because Azmy and his colleague in Germany, Bernhard Docke, took his case to the court of public opinion in Germany. Their skillful use of the media persuaded German chancellor Angela Merkel to prevail on George Bush to release Kurnaz. Merkel raised the issue on her first visit to the White House in January 2006. The irony was evident: the Conservative chancellor who defeated Social Democrat Gerhard Schroeder, who had led a "red-green" coalition and was Europe's most strident critic of Bush's Iraq War, had delivered a German resident from Guantánamo, after Schroeder had allowed him to languish there for years.

"No one gets out of Guantánamo by any legal process," Azmy said. "Because there is none."

Counter-attack

It's now clear that the administration's attempt to maintain a detention center beyond the reach of U.S. law has failed. Eleven district judges have ruled against Guantánamo. There have been adverse rulings by the Supreme Court. And on June 4, two military judges in Guantánamo ruled that two detainees on trial were not properly designated "unlawful enemy combatants." A week later, a three-judge panel on the federal appeals court in Richmond, VA, ruled that the President cannot designate civilians who are in this country "enemy combatants" and order the military to hold them indefinitely. The ruling pertained to a citizen of Qatar arrested in 2001in Illinois, where he was a computer science student. A mid-June campaign by high-level White House staffers to begin planning to close Guantánamo was stopped by Dick Cheney. But there are enough stand-up judges to put Bush's squalid extra-judicial prison out of business. Or It will be done by the Congress in 2009, if no President Giuliani or Thompson is in office to veto it.

Kurnaz's five-year detention brings up another grave issue, one that the courts and the Congress have largely avoided. It was briefly addressed on June 19 at the Senate Intelligence Committee meeting, when committee chair John Rockefeller (D-WV) questioned John Rizzo. Rockefeller asked Rizzo about the memo Jay Bybee wrote at the Justice Department's Office of Legal Counsel in August 2002. (Bybee is now a Federal Appeals Court judge.) The memo, written in collaboration with John Yoo and widely known as the "Torture Memo," redefined torture as an act that inflicts pain equivalent in intensity "to the pain accompanying serious physical injury such as organ failure, impairment of bodily function, or even death."

Rizzo told Rockefeller he initially thought the expanded definition of torture was acceptable. The memo was later repudiated by the Office of Legal Counsel, but it was written both to expand the legal definition of torture and to provide cover for CIA agents pushing the envelope to the extreme limits described in the memo. Rockefeller pursued a second line of questioning, one that human-rights and personal-injury lawyers should be considering regarding cases like that of Murat Kurnaz. The senator asked Rizzo if he was aware of CIA agents' concerns that they could be exposed to criminal prosecution for their involvement in the interrogation program. Rizzo said yes.

Murat Kurnaz was picked up in Pakistan in December 2001, before then-White House counsel Alberto Gonzales signed off on the torture memo. Kurnaz and hundreds of others were subjected to "illegal torture" (what a concept) before Bybee and Yoo drafted a memo that would protect the torturers from prosecution. The expanded legal definition of torture in their memo doesn't provide cover for those agents who tortured Kurnaz immediately after he was detained.

"The beatings began as soon as I was turned over to the Americans," Kurnaz said. Once in the Americans' hands, he was transferred to a camp at Kandahar, in Afghanistan, where suspected terrorists were held in tents. His account of his torture at the hands of the Americans--in his book and in interviews--is clear-eyed and consistent. He has repeated it in testimony before a committee of the German parliament, where he was described as a "very credible witness."

In the prison camp in Kandahar, Kurnaz said, he was hoisted on chains and was forced to hang by his hands while he was being interrogated. He was left hanging for "hours and days" after the interrogators left. An American physician in camouflage would come and check his vital signs to determine if he could withstand more enhanced interrogation.

The doctor's house call must have failed Kurnaz's neighbor in the next room. "They were hanging me and pulled me up higher than the other times. I could see the man in the other room. He was hanging, too. Maybe they lifted him higher that time, too, I don't know. I had heard him moaning and breathing; this is the first time I saw him. He was dead. The color of his body was changed and I could see he was dead."

Kurnaz said he was also subjected to waterboarding and electric shock. And that beatings were routine and constant. He theorizes that much of the torture was a result of the failure of the American soldiers and agents to capture any real terrorists in the initial sweeps. (He was told that he was sold to the Americans for $3,000 by Pakistani police, who identified him as a terrorist.) "They didn't have any big fish. And they thought that by torture they could get one of us to say something. 'I know Osama' or something like that. Then they could say they had a big fish."

The German government is still conducting a parliamentary inquiry into its complicity in the Kurnaz case. Ultimately Kurnaz may have a legal cause of action to seek some reparations from his government. As for the U.S. regime, the Bush administration's attempt to create a unitary presidency that uses war to justify executive powers never imagined by the men who negotiated our Constitution has been unmasked, and the Bush-Cheney presidency is in its last throes. When it is gone, or even before it packs up and moves on, some plaintiff will likely find legal counsel and a forum in which to litigate these issues.

In such a case, Kurnaz's book and testimony will be useful. He's written a primer on rendition, incarceration and torture. It's being translated by a U.S. publisher for a January release. It's not Solzhenitsyn, but it's a gripping account of life in an American gulag.

Movie rights have been sold in the U.S.

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See more stories tagged with: war on terror, guantanamo, civil liberties, detentions, rendition

Lou Dubose is a former Observer editor and co-author of "The Hammer: Tom DeLay, God, Money and the Rise of the Republican Congress."

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American Justice in the new world order
Posted by: A. Burr on Jul 7, 2007 12:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'd like to be that unidentified officer who accuses Bush someday while he's clearing shrubs on his ranch of being a terrorist and put him in a cage. The way the system is set up now a secret and clever accuser can put a wrench in any persons life.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush's Soviet style Justice
Posted by: cognitorex on Jul 7, 2007 3:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Libby avoids justice by having powerful friends in high places.
Murat Kurnaz is freed through the influence of the press and his country's Chancellor Merkel.
Political commissars guard each agency for possible transgressions against America's Elite-Party insiders.
Torture, constitutional guarantees, even national borders are legal trifles in the Sovietization of justice that has swept the Executive Branch and been appeased by the GOP legislators.
This issue, the habeas corpus, torture issue may be the most important issue of our day, and of our heirs.

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Guantanamo Torture
Posted by: Abushite on Jul 7, 2007 4:33 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is all the fuss about ? Torture in a Concentration Camp is normal. Get with it !!!

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» the color of your brain Posted by: baldo
» RE: the color of your brain Posted by: richholland
» Keep talking tough Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: .Guantanamo Torture Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: Guantanamo Torture Posted by: blitzmesser
I am ashamed
Posted by: kww355 on Jul 7, 2007 5:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love my country but this is one of the many things Dubya has done that make me ashamed to be an American. Maybe I'm idealistic or naive, but I never thought the American way was to declare a pre-emptive war or to torture and abrogate the rights of that wars prisoners.

With this mindset from the government, one of us could be next. Remember, "First they came to get the Jews, and I didn't speak out..."

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» RE: I am ashamed Posted by: blitzmesser
Amerika has become fascist, criminal and its elites, military, Nazis
Posted by: Perfectclue on Jul 7, 2007 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing boils my anger, like these stories. The issue goes beyond the Criminal fascist Bush, Cheney and executive thugs, it also goes to the class rot of the Republican Fascst thugs, and Democratic appeasing fascist and zionist appeasing class whores. Further, although there were instances of Judges upholding the Constitution, Bill of Rights, and not capitulating to this fascism, most of the Nazi Judges, have been complicit along with the other two branches in this dictatorship and violations of international laws.

Most disgraceful, are the Military asses, and I am an Army Brat, are the mindless robots, and Nazi, Pentagon officials, all the way down to the dumbasses who followed these illegal orders, is the fact that so many grunts followed this fascism, and called it "democracy". Fascism is not democracy. Dictatorship is not democracy, Torture is not freedom. Knowingly holding innocent detainees for 5 years, and then callling them "the worst of the worst", when the thugs who are committing these Nazi crimes are the WORST OF THE WORST, THAT MAKE UP AMEIRKA AND ITS EMPIRE, and support other fascist, zionist partners, whether dictators, oligarchs, or Israel as its Nazi partner. I am disgusted with this country. Sieg Heil

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» you spelled AMERICA wrong - NT Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: you spelled AMERICA wrong - NT Posted by: yellowskylark
» RE: you spelled AMERICA wrong - NT Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: you spelled AMERICA wrong - NT Posted by: blitzmesser
gathaiga
Posted by: gathaiga on Jul 7, 2007 7:05 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Kurnaz should be wary, the arm of the corporate war machine is long.

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» RE: gathaiga Posted by: Blade
» RE: gathaiga Posted by: owleyes
A major flaw in the logic
Posted by: EncinoM on Jul 7, 2007 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Those held at Gitmo, where detained at or near battlefields. What ever the administration is calling them, they are closests to POWs. POW do not receive consitutional protection, they are not prosecuted in courts of law, never have been. Habeaus is a right for criminal defendants. THe only possible hearing they maybe entitled to is to determine if they are enemy combatants or not.

Under Genvea, they are held until the end of hositilies. The problem here, is that we have a terorist organization acting as a state would, with its own army.

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» RE: A major flaw in the logic Posted by: StrayCat
» RE: A major flaw in the logic Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: A major flaw in the logic Posted by: Perfectclue
» RE: A major flaw in the logic Posted by: peacefullaim
» RE: Not Posted by: imcnotu
» EncinoM = Troll Posted by: freethink7
» RE: ncinoM = Troll Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: ncinoM = Troll Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: A major flaw in the logic Posted by: hilaryuk
Will Harper protect Canadians from "American Justice"?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Jul 7, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.
.
.
will he?

??

Spread Love...
... but wear the Glove!


BlueBerry Pick'n
can be found @
ThisCanadian
"We, two, form a multitude" ~ Ovid
==
"Silent Freedom is Freedom Silenced"

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The worst times are now.
Posted by: HughScott on Jul 7, 2007 9:14 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Vietnam veteran born in 1935 with family history of honorable military service going back to 1776, I have seen the best times on America -- and the worst. Trust me. This the worst.

From now on, I'm afraid, the world will forever remember this once sweet land of liberty for Gitmo, torture, killing innocent civilians in Iraq and the many other transgressions of a demented and deluded president who thinks he's a king.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The worst times are now. Posted by: Joshua Holland
» The best of times Posted by: owleyes
» RE: The best of times Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: The worst times are now. Posted by: A. Burr
» Sorry. I meant "Pax Americana" Posted by: Sojourner
» No apology necessary Posted by: hagwind
» All those things and Posted by: owleyes
» RE: Agreed Posted by: Ripcord
» "Chickens come home to roost." Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: no nostalgia here Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: D-Day Posted by: Ripcord
» Maybe for white people Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Maybe for white people Posted by: YogiBear
» No more water. Fire next time. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: The worst times are now. Posted by: freethink7
Good luck, USA
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Jul 7, 2007 9:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are creating terrorists in places like Guantanamo and any place you invade AND you will one have 250,000 mentally scarred soldiers home.

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» RE: Good luck, USA Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Good luck, USA Posted by: A. Burr
» RE: Good luck, USA Posted by: Aussie Kim
» RE: Good luck, USA Posted by: MT512
Just in case . . .
Posted by: hagwind on Jul 7, 2007 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . anyone still thinks that preemptive detention, violation of civil liberties, and torture are reserved for alleged terrorists, the story about the independent film Over the GW makes a good companion piece to this one. The filmmaker survived a reeducation camp for teenagers -- in New Jersey.

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» RE: apples and oranges Posted by: imcnotu
» RE: apples and oranges Posted by: hagwind
In our name
Posted by: GreenDreams on Jul 7, 2007 12:54 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They did this in our name. In the name of America.

May the neocons and their supporters go straight to hell and burn there until crispy.

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Concentration Camps in America: Are They For You?
Posted by: freethink7 on Jul 7, 2007 1:02 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This young man’s story about surviving Guantanamo is heart wrenching and sad. The photograph alone on AlterNet’s home page associated with this story is depressing. Guantanamo prison camp is a microcosm and sick/dysfunctional social engineering experiment illustrating what will occur in this country to all of us - given the right amount of denizen apathy and complacency: our own government officials will declare Marshall Law and impose citizen prisons and concentration camps to subordinate the American people. Anyone who is “different” in ideology, philosophy or even different in outward appearance (so-called dissidents and subversives) will be detained for an interminable amount of time.

The following are actual FEMA executive orders which give the President personal discretion to implement forced detention in concentration camps in U.S. (locations of proposed and/or actual concentration camps in U.S. are also included):

ConcentraCampsUSAreThey4U

Also: google-schmoogle: FEMA Executive orders for American Detention Camps – it’s all over the Internet

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» Research... Posted by: pre-emptive impeachment
Let's remember to thank the American Psychological Association as well.
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jul 7, 2007 1:11 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's take a hypothetical doctor, who has passed through college and medical school and has taken an oath to help his patients. In this case, the doctor's specialty is mental illness, which can be treated with various methods including counseling and drug therapy.

Now, our doctor goes to work for the US military and is asked to use his knowledge of mental processes to more effectively torture inmates in an illegal detention center. This doctor has good company - the Nazi's Josef Mengele comes to mind, as do the 'doctors' who worked in the Soviet State Psychiatric Hospitals for Political Dissidents.

That's the role that US psychologists played in Abu G, Bagram, secret CIA prisons around the world, and in Guantanamo. See DN: The CIA's Torture Teacher, Jun 2007

What kind of rot could have created a doctor who would participate in such atrocities? It's the kind of behavior one would expect from the Nazis or the Soviets. It seems pretty clear that this was all done under specific orders from the top of the Bush Administration - Gonzales, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Bush were all involved.

At least we have people like Sy Hersh to help get the story out to the American public. See The General's Report, about General Taguba, who actually believed that his superiors wanted to hear the truth, and acted accordingly. Famous quote: "I thought I was in the mafia". He was forced into retirement soon after.

This is the fate of honest officers in Bush's military. Compare this to the new lead, General Petraeus, who happily repeats Bushie propaganda on the reasons for the escalation of the war in Iraq. He's a tool of the political and corporate interests who want to secure access to Iraqi oilfields.

The truth of the matter is that such psycologically-inspired tactics have been carried out by the US for decades, generally using proxy armies in Third World countries (i.e. the Central America murder and torture operation run by Negroponte out of Honduras). See Alfred McCoy's "A Question of Torture".

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Paxman
Posted by: Paxmana1 on Jul 7, 2007 2:31 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11 is where it all went wrong for the current axis of evil .. America, Britain and Israel. 9/11 is the key .. when the citizens of the A of E cut through the right wing obfuscation to get at the truth then there will be a run on lampposts to dangle the miscreants from (ring the stock broker and get into lampposts)

And as for the illegal invasion of Iraq look no further than the Neocon Strauss and his proteges .. look no further than Palestine and what is going on there.

"I want to tell you something very clear, don't worry about American pressure on Israel, we, the Jewish people control America, and the Americans know it."
--Israeli Prime Minister Ariel Sharon to cabinet member Shimon Peres, October 3rd, 2001, as reported on Kol Y’Israel radio.


My remarks should not be construed as anti-American .. Britain and the USA go back to the Mayflower and the Pilgrims .. we have been friends and allies far longer than we have been enemies and Britain must also shoulder some of the blame for the war crimes that have been committed under the flags of, and in the name of the peoples of Britain and the USA ..

Funny thing though I do not recall having any say in the matter .. Blind Patriotism is an ugly beast .. an animal that is roused by flag waving and drum beating ... the symbols of the powerful as they lash us to our feet and herd us to the slaughter house .. the meat and the blood make a Satanic Sausage called the Dollar for the Corporations .. the powerful buy and sell us like Hogs at a farmers market.

Is it not time that we demonstrated some empathy and made restitution for the awful genocidal slaughter that we have inflicted on the Middle East .. is it not time to banish the symbols of the powerful from our minds by which they herd us to war?

Is it not time that we called for some accountability?

I am sure it was not the people that turned like rabid dogs on Cindy Sheehan .. it was the rabid dog media who are paid by the powerful to sway the people. The pig dogs of the mainstream media called her .. an attention whore!

The love of a Mother for her children is legendary as is her lion hearted courage in defense of her young .. Sheehans crucifixion .. is a disgrace and a slur on Motherhood the world over .. we need to stand up and speak out against the black hearts ...

How does the saying go .. Land of the Free .. Home of the Brave? .. give me freedom or give me death?

One thing is for sure neither of our respective nations has any liberty .. the only freedom we have is between the outgoing and incoming of a political party ..'Freedom and Democracy is really Freedummy and Democrappy' .. as peoples we get no freedom .. but as sure as hell we get death.

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» RE: Paxman Posted by: mountainmama
I Thought Hanging by the Hands Was...
Posted by: alicelillie on Jul 7, 2007 4:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I thought it was the figment of the imagination of a comic writer that made cartoons of men in mideval dungeons.

Not very funny...

Hope the book reaches #1 on the best seller list as people need to know what is really going on.

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Correction/Recommendation
Posted by: werbinix on Jul 7, 2007 5:52 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The TV show Murat Kurnaz was featured on is called Beckmann, not Beckamm. Sadly I could only find interviews he has done in German and ?Turkish? on youtube.

I think it would be very helpfu/interesting for Americans to hear the story straight from the horse's mouth. This is a huge story that is another smoking gun where George W. Bush is once again proven a liar. He lied to 139 presidential high school scholars and others that the USA does not torture.

It's also interesting to see how the German press covers almost all the bases, by inviting people from the BND (German CIA equivalent) who had contact with Kurnaz in 2002 (over 4 years before his release). They are much more skilled in evading the questions, but it has the same tinge of Fredo's testimony. The difference between the USA and Germany is that in Germany heads are going to roll because of this... The interview is a must-see, too bad it's not in English. If someone finds it in english, make sure to post/suggest it to alternet.

In the interview Murat Kurnaz's lawyer (Bernhard Docke) states that they are going to attempt to sue the US Government. They have a chance because the government has released documents stating that in 2002 the detainers at Gitmo had come to the conclusion that Kurnaz had no ties to ANY terrorist organization, but they still held and tortured him for 4 more years.

cheerio.

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Why?
Posted by: TruthBeTold on Jul 7, 2007 6:14 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is an excuse for a human being like John Yoo a professor of law at any university in this country?

What does he teach his students?

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» RE: Yoo and Gonzales Posted by: Ripcord
Punishment
Posted by: mountainmama on Jul 7, 2007 9:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both Bush and Cheney deserve nothing less then being put through the same torture as they dealt out...and slow, excruitiating death.

For those who believe in the Bible, I have one question....who would Jesus torture?

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» RE: Nebuchadnezzar Posted by: Ripcord
Could have been worse
Posted by: humahuma10 on Jul 7, 2007 11:47 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last I checked.... "Pick your amendment. Fifth: one is not compelled to be a witness against oneself, or deprived of life, liberty or property, without due process of law. Eighth: protection against cruel and unusual punishment. Fourteenth: the state cannot deprive someone of life, liberty or property without due process." IS RESERVED FOR UNITED STATES CITIZENS. Last I checked a Turkish born German does not apply....furthermore....A Turkish born German is picked up in Pakistan during a war....you say wrong place wrong time. Where was that wrong place and wrong time????
The reason I say that it could have been worse is the REAL tragic story of a guy who would have LOVED to have been hung up by his hands and tortured of sleep rather than what he went through, but you ingnore him. How about having your head cut off??? You know I talk of Nick Berg. Lets talk about the enemy here, and it is not in the United States.
I leave you with this:
All Muslums are NOT TERRORIST, but all Terrorist have been Muslum.

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» RE: rubbish Posted by: Ripcord
» RE: . filmed inside abu ghraib Posted by: aurora2484
» You must have never checked... Posted by: YogiBear
» Bad software Posted by: YogiBear
» can't rate your own comments Posted by: hagwind
» A duh moment for Yogi Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Could have been worse Posted by: Joshua Holland
Today's LA Times editorial has a helpful update on the legal questions.
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 8, 2007 12:42 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Here

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THE CANCER REMAINS
Posted by: foolme1ns on Jul 8, 2007 9:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over 30 years ago John Dean told Richard Nixon there was a cancer on the presidency. He was right and he was wrong. Nixon was the cancer, but it was in the body of America.

The small tumor was removed, but the cancer was not destroyed. When Gerald Ford pardoned Nixon, he allowed the cancer to survive. He said that we needed to forget the cancer in order to heal the nation. You don't cure cancer by forgetting it. So the cancer cells were allowed to remain in the body and to matasticize. The cancer is back in the executive branch, but now it has invaded the legislative branch and the judicial branch.

The cancer is killing America, and if America is to be saved, then the cancer must be destroyed.

It must be cut out of the body through impeachment, it must be irradiated through prosecution and it must be eradicated from the body through the chemotherapy of justice.

It will not be easy or fast but it is imperative if America is to be saved.

And then just like cancer survivors, there needs to be regular checkups to make sure the cancer never returns again.

Impeachment must start now and followed through completely to the end.

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» RE: great metaphor Posted by: Ripcord
The terrorists have succeeded.
Posted by: leerhok on Jul 8, 2007 9:17 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Defending democracy with undemocratic means, fighting human rights violations by limiting/annulling human rights, reading and practising international law as the devil the bible, in short behaving every bit as bad as the terrorist enemies means the terrorists have succeeded in planting their ideology on US soil.

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Sorry, you can't rate your own comments.
Posted by: leerhok on Jul 8, 2007 9:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
keep haunting me - WHY???

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Anyone able to tell me how to get rid of
Posted by: leerhok on Jul 8, 2007 9:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, you can't rate your own comments?????????????

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Maybe if some kind soul
Posted by: leerhok on Jul 8, 2007 9:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
reported the above comments?

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» RE: Maybe if some kind soul Posted by: Joshua Holland
impeachment
Posted by: gsaephanh on Jul 13, 2007 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Call in your vote TODAY for impeaching Bush and Cheney at this number: 202-225-0100

House Speaker Nancy Pelosi’s office is taking calls voting for Impeachment of Bush/Cheney at 202-225-0100. PLEASE CALL TODAY. At the toll free capitol switchboard #s below, you can also call your particular district’s congressional representative to insist that they support impeachment for Cheney. E.g., for Rep. Dennis Kucinich’s H Res 333 for Cheney; please say:

“In addition to supporting Kucinich’s bill H Res 333, I would also support a similar Impeachment Resolution against Bush, especially after the disgraceful Scooter Libby sentence “commuting” and the following issues: wiretapping, torture, numerous 9/11 intelligence misrepresentations, the continued occupation of Iraq, gross negligence during Hurrican Katrina, the Valerie Plame CIA leak, […list your other grounds…] ..”[see resolutions on tab #2 for other grounds for impeachment]).

LANIC requests that Americans call today…Not tomorrow or next week. Every call adds to the extraordinary grasswoots and nationwide movement’s pressures on House Speaker Pelosi to act now .before further innocent lives are lost in Iraq and elsewhere. Last week 28 Americans lost their lives. Over the July 4, 2007 weekend over 400 Iraqis lost their lives…

SEND MAIL TO HOUSE SPEAKER NANCY PELOSI: Attn: Nancy Pelosi, House Representative/Speaker of the House, 235 Cannon H.O.B., Washington, DC 20515 ; Pelosi’s Fax # 202 225-8259

Pelosi’s e-mail address :

Americanvoices@mail.house.gov

CC her at: sf.nancy@mail.house.gov

Please send her a pro-impeachment email and a specific call to endorse H Res 333. Note: On Saturdays/Sundays, Pelosi’s office has a comment line at which you can leave a voicemail. Your message will be transcribed and relayed to her. Please do encourage your family/friends to contact the same number. Refer them to www.bcimpeach.com for the actual telephone #s & contact info.

Find out who your Congressional representative is and call that person. For toll free numbers to your Congress rep: (800) 828 – 0498; (800) 459 – 1887; or (866) 340 – 9281. You will be connected once you name your congress person. The staff aid should take detailed notes and provided to the Congressional representative.

Final Note: Please say “I support Impeachment based on ____. I’d like to know where “[representative name]” stands on this issue.” Let’s strike while the Libby fury keeps the iron hot! Please call and Act Now!

PLEASE ALSO CONTACT THESE KEY CONGRESSIONAL REPS RE IMPEACHMENT:
Representative Capitol Phone Capitol Fax
Howard Berman 202-225-4695 202-225-3196
& 818-944-7200 818-994-1050

MAILING ADDRESS FOR BERMAN
Congressman Howard L. Berman
14546 Hamlin Street, Suite 202
Van Nuys, CA 91411

Henry Waxman 202-225-3976 202-225-4099
Loreta Sanchez 202 225-2965 202-225-5859
D. Watson 202 225-7084 202-225-2422
LindaSanchez 202 225-6676 202-226-1012
L. Solis 202 225-5464 202-225-5467
A. G. Eshoo 202 225-8104 202-225-8890
L. Roybal/Allard 202 225-1766 202-225-0350

http://www.bcimpeach.com/

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