COMMENTS: 117
Taking on the Big Boys: Why Feminism is Good for Families, Business and the Nation
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The women approached the Asian Immigrants Worker Advocates in Oakland, Calif. and got involved in a campaign that became a model for anti-sweatshop organizing. They visited a Jessica McClintock boutique in San Francisco and saw that the dresses they had been paid about $5 to make were selling for nearly $200. Outraged, the women wrote letters to McClintock, organized rallies and launched a boycott of McClintock. After media coverage in the New York Times and CBS's Sixty Minutes, the AIWA and the company reached an agreement. Jessica McClintock donated money to establish a fund for workers to learn their rights, sponsored scholarships for garment workers, and established a hotline for workers to report labor violations.
This success story is just one of many in Ellen Bravo's new book, Taking on the Big Boys: Why Feminism is Good for Families, Business and the Nation. Like the Chinese seamstresses, many women aren't accustomed to being listened to, especially by people in power. But Bravo shows that doesn't have to be the case. She hopes her book will redefine people's idea of what it means to be political, and let them know that ordinary women can effect change -- because, when they do, everyone benefits.
"I want people to know that anyone can be an activist," she said. "And that doesn't have to mean, although it can, being at big demonstrations with thousands of people. "
An activist doesn't have to have a bullhorn, Bravo added. They just need to be willing to speak out when they see injustice.
"People know what the problems are," she said. "It's that they don't know what they can do. They don't see themselves as agents of change."
Bravo, a longtime director of 9to5 National Association of Working Women, gives strategies in her new book for achieving pay equity, getting family leave and valuing women's work outside the workplace. In her book, Bravo makes a case for feminism and how economic equality will make things better for everyone. "To achieve that, we have to do more than smash the glass ceiling," she writes. "We have to redesign the building."
Bravo says that those in power fight change through various means such as minimizing the problem or what she calls catastrophizing it -- if women are paid equal to men, capitalism will collapse!! In the book she shatters some common myths such as the gap between men and women's pay closing on its own and women getting paid less because they aren't as good of negotiators as men. The reality is not that women's earnings have gone up, but men's have dropped, Bravo says. As for women needing to learn to ask for more, Bravo says that in many cases women are given no room to negotiate at all -- they are simply told what the pay is.
Bravo also takes on the myth that there are so few women in top-paying jobs because women are opting out of the workplace to raise children. The reality, she says, is that inflexible work environments and unreasonable hours force women out. Reframing the discussion on the "Mommy Wars" was a big part of the reason Bravo wrote this book.
"The more visible we make the issue, the better," she said. "We all need to work together on this and stop letting the Big Boys compartamentalize us."
Bravo says there have definitely been positive steps in terms of women's rights, some very visible. Hillary Clinton is a viable presidential candidate, Nancy Pelosi won Speaker of the House and Harvard appointed its first woman president, Drew Gilpin Faust. It's important to celebrate the victories, Bravo says -- and keep working for change.
There is hope for systemic changes in how women are treated, Bravo says. She points to three cultural shifts that make her think this type of change is possible.
"The use of the word Ms. is now commonplace," she said. "It was used as a joke when the magazine started. Tobacco is another one. It was unthinkable 20 years ago that you'd have to go outside to smoke."
The third change is the use of the term African American, Bravo said: "When it first started people said it was awkward. Now we don't even think about it."
Bravo points to the 1980 movie "9 to 5," which took its title and some of its ideas from the organization Bravo headed. Clerical workers played by Jane Fonda, Lily Tomlin and Dolly Parton are relentlessly harassed, demeaned and unappreciated by their boss until they kidnap him and create a humane workplace with childcare, flexible hours and equal pay. The productivity goes up, the CEO loves the changes and the boss gets sent to Brazil to be a manager there.
Sadly, Bravo said, these idyllic workplaces are not the norm and she still hears examples of the same problems the women in the movie struggle with: losing out to men on promotions they deserve, being asked by the boss to do personal errands, and being sexually harassed.
Bravo's organization used to run a contest -- the Good, the Bad and the Truly Unbelievable, and she heard stories that make the boss in the movie seem tame.
"There was one woman who told us the boss asked her to wax the hair on his back," Bravo said. "And another one whose boss wanted her to help him enlarge some part of himself -- and it wasn't his brain."
But things have certainly improved since the film was made, Bravo said.
"We have names for every one of those problems," she said. "And we know how to solve them. In my book I give examples of what can be done and where they are doing it, and it's working."
Several times in "Taking on the Big Boys" Bravo exhorts her readers to believe they can make a difference. "And that means challenging ourselves to think big," she writes. "This can be hard -- we have so little practice."
Even small changes are a step toward the world with a 35-hour work week, time off to care for family members and flexible hours, Bravo said.
Bravo believes it doesn't take much for people to see it's better for their daughters, mothers, sisters and partners to get paid more or to not worry about being fired for taking time off to care for a sick child. In the women's studies class she teaches at the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee, her students -- mostly older and working -- are far from fiery radicals when they walk in the door, she says.
"About 85 percent take it because they have a humanities requirement and they thought it would be easy," Bravo said. She wants to show them feminism is not about bra burning but about equality. In their second class they do an exercise listing negative and positive stereotypes for men and women. It makes them realize this is about them, not some abstract concept she says.
"That blows their minds," she said. "There are about twice as many positive stereotypes for men."
Bravo asks her students if they know their state legislators. Few do so she has them find out and write a letter about some issue they feel strongly about.
"They really get into the letters," she said. "Afterwards I ask if they can think of three people to ask to do the same thing and every hand goes up. They want to do it."
Institutional change is important as well as working on changing ourselves, says Bravo. This is a message she wants to get out in "Taking on the Big Boys" as well as in the classroom.
"People think they can only change themselves, "she said. "For example, with rape, their answer is to not wear provocative clothing or not walk alone at night. Or the answer for lower pay is always to learn to negotiate better. But shouldn't there be some sort of systemic change? Wouldn't you want a fair system not based on just who is the slickest at promoting themselves?"
Finally, Bravo wants people to know that being a feminist doesn't mean not wearing makeup or hating men. To be a feminist just means not participating in the oppression of anyone -- and that is open to us all. As she writes in the final chapter of her book, "The Big Boys don't have a secret handshake, and neither do we."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Jun 1, 2007 12:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The next job of feminism is to teach EVERYONE (women AND men) how to unshackle themselves from lives of subservient slavery.
Men do NOT and SHOULD not have to work 80 hours a week for 40 years. Men should have all the rights and freedoms we women demand so that we are ALL happier and healthier!
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» RE: Bravo! ;)
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: Bravo! ;)
Posted by: willymack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 1, 2007 3:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Four women were hired in the first batch of lady aviators. It didn’t take long before the jokes started among male crewmembers. Such as “Confucius says, ‘Women who fly upside down have crack-ups.’”
Not humorous was the secret seniority code we guys applied to the CAL female pilots – C1, C2, C3 and C4 -– “C” meaning “cunt.”
The ladies soon got wind of it, but instead of acting insulted, which would’ve been understandable, they elevated themselves among the pilot group by introducing themselves at trip check-in with their derogatory monikers.
One day, “C1” flew with me for the first time as my copilot on a LAX to Denver trip. Our equipment was a Boeing 727-200. I let her fly the first leg even though traditionally captains started out at the controls. My motive was to see how C1 handled the tricky “slam-dunk” arrival at Denver Stapleton. She did great.
Several legs later that day while chatting during cruise, we talked about the previous night’s Academy Awards. Just as I had gotten used to her being an “ordinary” pilot, meaning no gender difference, C1 commented about several dresses she admired at the ceremony. I smiled and wished my daughters had taken up flying like her.
Two days later, after getting home from the trip series, I told my wife, Jean, that the first officer had worn fingernail polish. She looked at me incredulously and said, “You’re kidding!”
I knew what she was thinking -– that one of our gay pilots had come out of the closet.
I let Jean twist several moments from her stereotypical rope, then revealed my first officer was a woman. But because I’m not stupid, I never referred to her as “C1” in front of my wife.
Here’s the point of my story. In the working world, women and men should be treated the same and receive equal pay and advancement opportunities. But to keep jobs from becoming any more tedious than they sometimes are, let women be women, not clones of men.
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» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: pdxstudent
» Oh, I see
Posted by: pdxstudent
» Since you don't know what my standards or expectations are, pdxstudent, get lost.
Posted by: HughScott
» Non Sequiter
Posted by: pdxstudent
» Don't put words in my mouth, Preacher Beck. Save your sermons for someone who ...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Why "ladies"?
Posted by: SayBlade
» If you were a pilot, SayBlade, you wouldn't make such a stupid statement like that!
Posted by: HughScott
» Oh! I'm not a pilot so that makes me stupid?
Posted by: SayBlade
» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: Libertine
» That was one of my points, Libertine, but not many AlterNeters saw through my pilot humor.
Posted by: HughScott
» Female Pilots -- brightening COCKpits everywhere ...
Posted by: BenCaxton12
» That's bullshit, BenCaxton12. On U.S. air carriers, cockpit crewmembers that can PERFORM and....
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: axjxhx
» I'll say it again, axjxhx, LIGHTEN UP! Airline flying is the ONLY civilian profession where...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: I'll say it again, axjxhx, LIGHTEN UP! Airline flying is the ONLY civilian profession where...
Posted by: axjxhx
» LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Holy crap. Why so much pompous piety?
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Holy crap. Why so much pompous piety?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Take flying lessons, solo, cheat death several times, then I'll answer your question. Anna.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Holy crap. Why so much pompous piety?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Thank you
Posted by: kepstein7777
» I don't know who you're thanking, kepstein7777, but probably not me if you've never soloed.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frosty86 on Jun 1, 2007 3:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's stop raising our children to be boys and girls and start raising our children to be people. Androgyny.
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» What do you propose?
Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: What do you propose?
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: What do you propose? Equality not Androgyny
Posted by: BenCaxton12
» Instead of "equality" how about radical transformation?
Posted by: frosty86
» Racism, Sexism and Classism ... related of course ... BUT ...
Posted by: BenCaxton12
» Critical Feminist Thinking
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: What do you propose?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: What do you propose?
Posted by: frosty86
» Frosty...good points, but too many "scientific" claims based on ONE school of thought!!!
Posted by: elfinito
» News: they already are people
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: Philip Newton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wawa on Jun 1, 2007 4:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This eco-feminist, justice and peace activist, poet, author, Senior Correspondent and Editor of WeAreWideAwake.org, and Producer of "30 Minutes With Vanunu" is taking on the media elite and helping to expose the INJUSTICE of the Israeli government.
This civilian journalist is the only media in the world who has been following Vanunu's historic FREEDOM of SPEECH TIAL in a Mid East 'democracy' and also reporting on the Christian Exodus from the Holy Land.
"30 Minutes With Vanunu" UNCENSORED by Israel and Freely Streaming on:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jun 1, 2007 7:10 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
men = small workforce
men + women = larger workforce
larger workforce = larger consumer base
larger consumer base = more consumption
more consumption = more materialism
more materialism = rich get richer & gain more power
more materialism = less scholarly education, loss of critical thinking skills
more materialism = more conflict over limited resources
I would challenge any feminist to disprove the logic of any of those equations.
The average woman is more naive than the average man.
The average woman is more trusting than the average man.
The average woman is easier manipulated than the average man.
The more time a woman spends being a consumer, the less time she will spend being a mother. She will believe she can do both, and her kids, raised on such beliefs, will adopt beliefs even more foolish than that!
Those are the reasons corporate america embraces feminism. Give women more money and more control over finances, and in return, through their naivete, they will allow the rich to get richer and lead us into a new age of neofeudalism. And that is exactly what has happened.
If you're a coward, then don't think about any of this. Just go shopping or something.
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» RE: mily vs Reality
Posted by: ktm
» RE: mily vs Reality
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» men shop too
Posted by: mcubed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Philip Newton on Jun 1, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looked at a Hollywood movie lately? The father is always -- always -- a castrated, brainless idiot, disrespected by the kids and clueless if not for his spouse.
Are people screwed over on the job? Of course. Is equal pay for equal work a necessity? Yes. Is oppression of anyone, regardless of gender, race, hairstyle or sexual partner, etc., something we must unite to fight? Of course.
In my opinion, we don't do that by carving our common interests into a series of (ultimately) competeing special interests. We do that be uniting our interests and fighting under one banner.
Those seamstresses didn't unite and fight because they were women. They did so because they were exploited WORKERS. Good for them -- and good for all.
The issue here is not oppressed gender. The issue here is oppressed labor. If you strike a blow to free labor, you are my friend. Until labor is free, the rest is window dressing.
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» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: fork
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: fork
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: Philip Newton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 1, 2007 8:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The third change is the use of the term African American, Bravo said: "When it first started people said it was awkward. Now we don't even think about it." Puhleeze..This hasn't got 'jack' to do with the instant (women /politics/economics) issue. She's leading a feminist choir,yet she wants all the congreation to join in....OK..as long as she understands that
some can only hum along.
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» RE: Ummmmmmmm..Not exactly............
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Ummmmmmmm..Not exactly............
Posted by: truly scrumptious
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Jun 1, 2007 9:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose it's telling that the movie is more than twenty-five years old, but as a chick-flick classic it's destined to be right up there with "Gone With the Wind" and "Thelma & Louise". I find it a bit disturbing that "9 to 5" legitimises women's violence against those men who some women deem to have "asked for it". It's hard to deny that there's a sense these days in which it's Ok for women to 'slap the bastard'. A more primitive form of 'justice' is not good change IMO just because it's women administering it.
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» getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: TassieDevil
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: TassieDevil
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» Women's motivations for violence (part 1)
Posted by: frosty86
» Women's motivations for violence (part 2)
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 9:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this very difficult to believe, the way men are being protrayed as dumbass losers in TV shows and adverstising. Even in movies, they are always careful to put in a least one woman who kicks the "hero's" ass.
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» Yep
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Yep
Posted by: axjxhx
» RE: Yep
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Yep
Posted by: TassieDevil
» RE: Yep
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: jingles
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: jingles
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: frosty86
» Thanks for saving me the typing, frosty86. :) - NT
Posted by: truly scrumptious
» I'll Raise You
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: I'll Raise You
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: I'll Raise You
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: I'll Raise You
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: frosty86
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Jun 1, 2007 11:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Free Speech in Tallahassee
Posted by: fanny666
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Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jun 1, 2007 12:18 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, there are a lot of people abusing this feminist 'girl power' ideal as an excuse to do nasty things.
Stripping for easy cash; Then saying its 'Empowering'.
Getting pregnant and aborting the baby; Its my body...
These are not good for society. Stop hiding your evil deeds behind a noble cause.
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» RE: Feminism is an abused term
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Feminism is an abused term
Posted by: Aussie Kim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 1, 2007 2:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because the job or the function is performed by a woman, it will either be done better or differently in a positive way.
Case in point: In the article, Hillary is mentioned. Read "The Nation's" story on Hillary. It will point out her close ties with big business, labor union busters, political spinmiesters and of course, her support (now qualified with flip-floppy gibberish) for the Iraq war.
As for corporate America, you will find some of the top bosses, who are female, are far more ruthless and less "family friendly" than many men are. Could it be that the nature of the capitalistic/mercantile workplace breeds certain kinds of behavior, regardless of gender?
The bottom line, it is evident that individual differences are more pronounced and profound than differences attributable to gender. We should focus on positive, nurturing, cooperative behaviors, regardless of gender versus starting up another fruitless, unproductive and meaningless gender war.
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 1, 2007 2:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Evangelicals and others claiming to be Christians that support such practices are acting against one of the foundational principles of their claimed faith. Others are just being lug-heads.
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Posted by: wishninja on Jun 1, 2007 8:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BOOK ABOUT on Jun 1, 2007 9:48 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also have a scientific with an eye opening theory called "Frankies Theory of the Evolution of IT". I have tried to get the attention of the media to help get the word out to help Women and in turn to make sure their Daughters and Granddaughters will have a better life. No one will listen or help me. I am a male who employed hundreds of women for over 20 years, my Mother had an unfair life, so I know all the pitfalls for women and their children. I need help. I am
preparing a blog, "frankiesbookabout.blogstream.com" that will be ready by June 15. I have printed the book myself and that may have been a mistake except for my copyrighted materials. This sounds like advertising, but maybe I could write an article for a womans monthly. For the sake of all women what I have to say is important for all women on earth.
End of comment
When you read this comment, maybe you will contact me personally, but If you are like the other people I have contacted you will ignore me because it all sounds to good to be true.
E-MAIL- fdesign@wtconnect.com---325-235-3996--
Fax 325-235-3996 Thanks.
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» RE: frankiesbookabout-HUH?
Posted by: Amy27605
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Jun 2, 2007 11:22 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But note the May 3, '07 entry on the anti-semitic professior Kevin MacDonald. It consists of over 700 posts of yours truely single handedly battling all manner of anti-semites and their fellow traveling sympathizers. I got NO help or support whatsoever from any of the so called "progressive" forces some of whom even jumped in on the side of the anti-semites!! I guess anti-semitism isn't important. Just remember this, no one was gassed and cremated at Auschwitz just for being a woman. And I think this particularly ugly form os hate is once again rearing its ugly head. But no sexism can be tolerated. I'll bet is MacDonald was as professionally obsessed with showing the mental and otherwise inferiority of women that he is with proving that the Jews are bound by nature to pursuing world domination there would be an outpouring of feminist rage. MacDonald would be hanging from a tree somewhere in Long Beach with his nutsack bulging from his throat like a second adams apple instead of sitting in a comfortable tenured position for the last thirteen years receiving thousands of dollars in academic achievement awards from highly dubious sources. The Jews need to get more uppity. Either that or they need more estrogen. And where are all these Jewish feminists. They just make 'em like Golda Mier anymore!!
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» RE: Yellow vs. Yellow: And this is not a film from 'a certain three letter religious sect' .....
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Yellow vs. Yellow: And this is not a film from 'a certain three letter religious sect' .....
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Jews -- a wandering and homeless parasitic people that nobody wants or likes...whose fault is it?
Posted by: yellow
» Got your back
Posted by: Philip Newton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Aussie Kim on Jun 1, 2007 12:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The next job of feminism is to teach EVERYONE (women AND men) how to unshackle themselves from lives of subservient slavery.
Men do NOT and SHOULD not have to work 80 hours a week for 40 years. Men should have all the rights and freedoms we women demand so that we are ALL happier and healthier!
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» RE: Bravo! ;)
Posted by: Libertine
» RE: Bravo! ;)
Posted by: willymack
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HughScott on Jun 1, 2007 3:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Four women were hired in the first batch of lady aviators. It didn’t take long before the jokes started among male crewmembers. Such as “Confucius says, ‘Women who fly upside down have crack-ups.’”
Not humorous was the secret seniority code we guys applied to the CAL female pilots – C1, C2, C3 and C4 -– “C” meaning “cunt.”
The ladies soon got wind of it, but instead of acting insulted, which would’ve been understandable, they elevated themselves among the pilot group by introducing themselves at trip check-in with their derogatory monikers.
One day, “C1” flew with me for the first time as my copilot on a LAX to Denver trip. Our equipment was a Boeing 727-200. I let her fly the first leg even though traditionally captains started out at the controls. My motive was to see how C1 handled the tricky “slam-dunk” arrival at Denver Stapleton. She did great.
Several legs later that day while chatting during cruise, we talked about the previous night’s Academy Awards. Just as I had gotten used to her being an “ordinary” pilot, meaning no gender difference, C1 commented about several dresses she admired at the ceremony. I smiled and wished my daughters had taken up flying like her.
Two days later, after getting home from the trip series, I told my wife, Jean, that the first officer had worn fingernail polish. She looked at me incredulously and said, “You’re kidding!”
I knew what she was thinking -– that one of our gay pilots had come out of the closet.
I let Jean twist several moments from her stereotypical rope, then revealed my first officer was a woman. But because I’m not stupid, I never referred to her as “C1” in front of my wife.
Here’s the point of my story. In the working world, women and men should be treated the same and receive equal pay and advancement opportunities. But to keep jobs from becoming any more tedious than they sometimes are, let women be women, not clones of men.
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» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: pdxstudent
» Oh, I see
Posted by: pdxstudent
» Since you don't know what my standards or expectations are, pdxstudent, get lost.
Posted by: HughScott
» Non Sequiter
Posted by: pdxstudent
» Don't put words in my mouth, Preacher Beck. Save your sermons for someone who ...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Why "ladies"?
Posted by: SayBlade
» If you were a pilot, SayBlade, you wouldn't make such a stupid statement like that!
Posted by: HughScott
» Oh! I'm not a pilot so that makes me stupid?
Posted by: SayBlade
» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: Libertine
» That was one of my points, Libertine, but not many AlterNeters saw through my pilot humor.
Posted by: HughScott
» Female Pilots -- brightening COCKpits everywhere ...
Posted by: BenCaxton12
» That's bullshit, BenCaxton12. On U.S. air carriers, cockpit crewmembers that can PERFORM and....
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Thank God for the difference between girls and boys.
Posted by: axjxhx
» I'll say it again, axjxhx, LIGHTEN UP! Airline flying is the ONLY civilian profession where...
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: I'll say it again, axjxhx, LIGHTEN UP! Airline flying is the ONLY civilian profession where...
Posted by: axjxhx
» LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Holy crap. Why so much pompous piety?
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Holy crap. Why so much pompous piety?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Take flying lessons, solo, cheat death several times, then I'll answer your question. Anna.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: LIGHTEN UP, PEOPLE! Holy crap. Why so much pompous piety?
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Thank you
Posted by: kepstein7777
» I don't know who you're thanking, kepstein7777, but probably not me if you've never soloed.
Posted by: HughScott
Comments are closed-
Posted by: frosty86 on Jun 1, 2007 3:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's stop raising our children to be boys and girls and start raising our children to be people. Androgyny.
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» What do you propose?
Posted by: White middleclass male
» RE: What do you propose?
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: What do you propose? Equality not Androgyny
Posted by: BenCaxton12
» Instead of "equality" how about radical transformation?
Posted by: frosty86
» Racism, Sexism and Classism ... related of course ... BUT ...
Posted by: BenCaxton12
» Critical Feminist Thinking
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: What do you propose?
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: What do you propose?
Posted by: frosty86
» Frosty...good points, but too many "scientific" claims based on ONE school of thought!!!
Posted by: elfinito
» News: they already are people
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: News: they already are people
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: News: they already are people - really!
Posted by: Philip Newton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wawa on Jun 1, 2007 4:59 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This eco-feminist, justice and peace activist, poet, author, Senior Correspondent and Editor of WeAreWideAwake.org, and Producer of "30 Minutes With Vanunu" is taking on the media elite and helping to expose the INJUSTICE of the Israeli government.
This civilian journalist is the only media in the world who has been following Vanunu's historic FREEDOM of SPEECH TIAL in a Mid East 'democracy' and also reporting on the Christian Exodus from the Holy Land.
"30 Minutes With Vanunu" UNCENSORED by Israel and Freely Streaming on:
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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Posted by: Iconoclast421 on Jun 1, 2007 7:10 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
men = small workforce
men + women = larger workforce
larger workforce = larger consumer base
larger consumer base = more consumption
more consumption = more materialism
more materialism = rich get richer & gain more power
more materialism = less scholarly education, loss of critical thinking skills
more materialism = more conflict over limited resources
I would challenge any feminist to disprove the logic of any of those equations.
The average woman is more naive than the average man.
The average woman is more trusting than the average man.
The average woman is easier manipulated than the average man.
The more time a woman spends being a consumer, the less time she will spend being a mother. She will believe she can do both, and her kids, raised on such beliefs, will adopt beliefs even more foolish than that!
Those are the reasons corporate america embraces feminism. Give women more money and more control over finances, and in return, through their naivete, they will allow the rich to get richer and lead us into a new age of neofeudalism. And that is exactly what has happened.
If you're a coward, then don't think about any of this. Just go shopping or something.
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» RE: mily vs Reality
Posted by: ktm
» RE: mily vs Reality
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» men shop too
Posted by: mcubed
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Philip Newton on Jun 1, 2007 8:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looked at a Hollywood movie lately? The father is always -- always -- a castrated, brainless idiot, disrespected by the kids and clueless if not for his spouse.
Are people screwed over on the job? Of course. Is equal pay for equal work a necessity? Yes. Is oppression of anyone, regardless of gender, race, hairstyle or sexual partner, etc., something we must unite to fight? Of course.
In my opinion, we don't do that by carving our common interests into a series of (ultimately) competeing special interests. We do that be uniting our interests and fighting under one banner.
Those seamstresses didn't unite and fight because they were women. They did so because they were exploited WORKERS. Good for them -- and good for all.
The issue here is not oppressed gender. The issue here is oppressed labor. If you strike a blow to free labor, you are my friend. Until labor is free, the rest is window dressing.
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» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: fanny666
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: fork
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: fork
» RE: Isms are bad
Posted by: Philip Newton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ekipnrut on Jun 1, 2007 8:35 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The third change is the use of the term African American, Bravo said: "When it first started people said it was awkward. Now we don't even think about it." Puhleeze..This hasn't got 'jack' to do with the instant (women /politics/economics) issue. She's leading a feminist choir,yet she wants all the congreation to join in....OK..as long as she understands that
some can only hum along.
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» RE: Ummmmmmmm..Not exactly............
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Ummmmmmmm..Not exactly............
Posted by: truly scrumptious
Comments are closed-
Posted by: MartianBachelor on Jun 1, 2007 9:12 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I suppose it's telling that the movie is more than twenty-five years old, but as a chick-flick classic it's destined to be right up there with "Gone With the Wind" and "Thelma & Louise". I find it a bit disturbing that "9 to 5" legitimises women's violence against those men who some women deem to have "asked for it". It's hard to deny that there's a sense these days in which it's Ok for women to 'slap the bastard'. A more primitive form of 'justice' is not good change IMO just because it's women administering it.
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» getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: TassieDevil
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: TassieDevil
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» Women's motivations for violence (part 1)
Posted by: frosty86
» Women's motivations for violence (part 2)
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: thha
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: Nedtheredhead
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
» RE: getting it right.
Posted by: frosty86
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Logic's Edge on Jun 1, 2007 9:33 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find this very difficult to believe, the way men are being protrayed as dumbass losers in TV shows and adverstising. Even in movies, they are always careful to put in a least one woman who kicks the "hero's" ass.
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» Yep
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Yep
Posted by: axjxhx
» RE: Yep
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Yep
Posted by: TassieDevil
» RE: Yep
Posted by: Philip Newton
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: jingles
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: jingles
» RE: Positive stereotypes
Posted by: frosty86
» Thanks for saving me the typing, frosty86. :) - NT
Posted by: truly scrumptious
» I'll Raise You
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: I'll Raise You
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: I'll Raise You
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: I'll Raise You
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: Logic's Edge
» RE: Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: pdxstudent
» RE: Growing Up With A Penis
Posted by: frosty86
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WitchyNy on Jun 1, 2007 11:57 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Free Speech in Tallahassee
Posted by: fanny666
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Ambrose Pare on Jun 1, 2007 12:18 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, there are a lot of people abusing this feminist 'girl power' ideal as an excuse to do nasty things.
Stripping for easy cash; Then saying its 'Empowering'.
Getting pregnant and aborting the baby; Its my body...
These are not good for society. Stop hiding your evil deeds behind a noble cause.
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» RE: Feminism is an abused term
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Feminism is an abused term
Posted by: Aussie Kim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sofla100 on Jun 1, 2007 2:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Because the job or the function is performed by a woman, it will either be done better or differently in a positive way.
Case in point: In the article, Hillary is mentioned. Read "The Nation's" story on Hillary. It will point out her close ties with big business, labor union busters, political spinmiesters and of course, her support (now qualified with flip-floppy gibberish) for the Iraq war.
As for corporate America, you will find some of the top bosses, who are female, are far more ruthless and less "family friendly" than many men are. Could it be that the nature of the capitalistic/mercantile workplace breeds certain kinds of behavior, regardless of gender?
The bottom line, it is evident that individual differences are more pronounced and profound than differences attributable to gender. We should focus on positive, nurturing, cooperative behaviors, regardless of gender versus starting up another fruitless, unproductive and meaningless gender war.
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Jun 1, 2007 2:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Evangelicals and others claiming to be Christians that support such practices are acting against one of the foundational principles of their claimed faith. Others are just being lug-heads.
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Posted by: wishninja on Jun 1, 2007 8:35 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: BOOK ABOUT on Jun 1, 2007 9:48 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I also have a scientific with an eye opening theory called "Frankies Theory of the Evolution of IT". I have tried to get the attention of the media to help get the word out to help Women and in turn to make sure their Daughters and Granddaughters will have a better life. No one will listen or help me. I am a male who employed hundreds of women for over 20 years, my Mother had an unfair life, so I know all the pitfalls for women and their children. I need help. I am
preparing a blog, "frankiesbookabout.blogstream.com" that will be ready by June 15. I have printed the book myself and that may have been a mistake except for my copyrighted materials. This sounds like advertising, but maybe I could write an article for a womans monthly. For the sake of all women what I have to say is important for all women on earth.
End of comment
When you read this comment, maybe you will contact me personally, but If you are like the other people I have contacted you will ignore me because it all sounds to good to be true.
E-MAIL- fdesign@wtconnect.com---325-235-3996--
Fax 325-235-3996 Thanks.
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» RE: frankiesbookabout-HUH?
Posted by: Amy27605
Comments are closed-
Posted by: yellow on Jun 2, 2007 11:22 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But note the May 3, '07 entry on the anti-semitic professior Kevin MacDonald. It consists of over 700 posts of yours truely single handedly battling all manner of anti-semites and their fellow traveling sympathizers. I got NO help or support whatsoever from any of the so called "progressive" forces some of whom even jumped in on the side of the anti-semites!! I guess anti-semitism isn't important. Just remember this, no one was gassed and cremated at Auschwitz just for being a woman. And I think this particularly ugly form os hate is once again rearing its ugly head. But no sexism can be tolerated. I'll bet is MacDonald was as professionally obsessed with showing the mental and otherwise inferiority of women that he is with proving that the Jews are bound by nature to pursuing world domination there would be an outpouring of feminist rage. MacDonald would be hanging from a tree somewhere in Long Beach with his nutsack bulging from his throat like a second adams apple instead of sitting in a comfortable tenured position for the last thirteen years receiving thousands of dollars in academic achievement awards from highly dubious sources. The Jews need to get more uppity. Either that or they need more estrogen. And where are all these Jewish feminists. They just make 'em like Golda Mier anymore!!
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» RE: Yellow vs. Yellow: And this is not a film from 'a certain three letter religious sect' .....
Posted by: ekipnrut
» RE: Yellow vs. Yellow: And this is not a film from 'a certain three letter religious sect' .....
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Jews -- a wandering and homeless parasitic people that nobody wants or likes...whose fault is it?
Posted by: yellow
» Got your back
Posted by: Philip Newton
Starbucks' Cop-Out to Gun Nuts: Customers Served Coffee While Strapped
ACORN Smear Collaborator Claims Persecution to Raise Money for Her Legal Troubles
Bad Policies Are Really What's Driving California's Huge Prison Costs




