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Rights and Liberties

Bush May Veto Bill That Would Help Protect Hate Crime Victims

By Allison Stevens, Women's eNews. Posted May 18, 2007.


Women could stand to gain substantially from a law that would expand hate crime definitions to include gender, sexual orientation and disability. But will the legislation stand a chance?
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WASHINGTON -- Women's rights groups are making a last-ditch push to enact legislation that would expand existing "hate crimes" laws to include gender and other categories such as sexual orientation, gender identity and disability.

The bill cleared a major hurdle on May 4 when it passed in the House of Representatives.

But the White House quickly dampened advocates' spirits with a veto threat on the same day, saying the bill is unnecessary because victims are covered under existing law.

White House aides also objected on the grounds that it would leave other classes of people, such as the elderly, members of the military and police officers, without similar status. Current law covers crimes based on race, color, religion or national origin.

But after 15 years spent lobbying for the bill, advocates are not giving up.

"It looks like it will be unlikely that it will become law, but we will keep working at it," said Olga Vives, a vice president at the National Organization for Women in Washington, D.C.

If the legislation becomes law, it would establish uniform protections for women and girls who are victims of hate crimes around the country. Currently, 28 states include gender in their own versions of hate-crimes laws.

If the bill fails, advocates say a hard-won opportunity to specifically address hate crimes against women and girls will be lost, or at least put on hold until a different president occupies the White House.

Lobbying for Passage

A coalition of women's rights groups is mounting a public relations and lobbying campaign to push the bill through the Senate even though its chances of surviving a veto are slim. Together with groups representing gays and lesbians, minorities and people with disabilities, women's rights advocates are lobbying senators in writing and in person and contacting media outlets to press for Senate passage.

The Senate Judiciary Committee has not set a date to review the Senate version of the bill, and it is unclear whether supporters will be able to muster the 67 votes needed to override the threatened presidential veto. The House voted 237-180 for the bill, not enough to meet the two-thirds threshold to keep it alive.

Even if the bill fails to win veto-proof support, proponents say congressional passage would be a symbolic victory for women's rights and would send a strong message against gender-biased hate crimes. It would also force a showdown with President Bush over a civil rights issue, which advocates say would harm his already low public approval ratings.

Bush rarely invoked his veto power when Republicans controlled Congress, using it only once to kill a bill to loosen restrictions on the use of embryonic stem cells for medical research. In the first five months of the current Congress, controlled by Democrats, Bush has vetoed an emergency spending measure because it included a timetable for withdrawal of troops in Iraq and has threatened to bring out the veto pen on issues ranging from federal funding of abortion to stem cell research to hate crimes.

"Is this going to be a president who now vetoes everything in front of him?" asked Roberta Sklar, spokesperson for the National Gay and Lesbian Task Force in Washington, D.C. "How many pieces of legislation that the people want will the president veto?"

Shepard Murder Frames Debate

Named after Mathew Shepard, the gay University of Wyoming student who was beaten to death in 1998, debate over the hate crimes bill is often framed around the context of sexual orientation rather than gender.

Lesbian and gay rights groups are a driving force behind the legislation. On the day it passed the House, Rep. Barney Frank of Massachusetts, the only openly gay man in the House, presided in the speaker's chair.

Opposition to the bill, stemming largely from social and religious conservatives, has also centered around its provisions relating to sexuality.

Critics say the bill would grant gays and lesbians "preferential treatment" by elevating them to a specially protected class of victim. And they warn that the law could be used to gag religious clergy and advocates from expressing opposition to the "homosexual" lifestyle and other behaviors like cross-dressing.

"Victims are -- and should be -- treated equally in the justice system, regardless of their sexual orientation," said Wendy Wright, president of Concerned Women for America, an advocacy group in Washington, D.C.

"This hate crimes bill would overturn this balance, creating second-class victims and a federal justice system that discriminates against grandmothers, children, women and men simply because they are heterosexual."

Obscured Focus on Women

The focus on sexual orientation and gender identity has obscured the bill's impact on women, said Jocelyn Frye, who serves as general counsel for the National Partnership for Women and Families, an advocacy group in Washington, D.C.

"It's a message that is lost in a lot of discussion and debate about the bill," Frye said, adding that opponents "have in a very calculated way tried to play to the most divisive rhetoric in talking about the bill. Perhaps it's not in their interest to talk about why this bill has implications for women more generally."

Women could stand to gain substantially from the law.

The bill would add significant resources for prosecution of crimes in which the victims were targeted for their gender, as was the case in two high-profile shootings last fall in Pennsylvania and Colorado.

In the Pennsylvania crime, 32-year-old Charles Carl Roberts IV killed five girls between 7 and 13 in a one-room Amish schoolhouse in Lancaster before he killed himself. And in Bailey, Colo., a gunman broke into a high school and took six girls hostage; he released four of the girls, and one was rescued before he killed the other girl and himself.

"As we saw in the Colorado and Amish school shootings, women and girls are sometimes singled out for cruelty and even murder because of their gender, yet federal law does not consider these acts to be hate crimes, as it would if the students had been targeted because of their race or religion," said NOW president Kim Gandy.

The law does not stiffen penalties for all crimes against women; crimes of domestic violence or sexual assault would not necessarily fall under the category.

To qualify as a hate crime, sufficient evidence must be presented showing the perpetrator's bias, there must be a link to interstate commerce and federal prosecutors must get permission to proceed from the Department of Justice.

The legislation would also give the federal government more leeway to assist local authorities in prosecuting hate crimes and to conduct federal prosecutions themselves. And it would require the Federal Bureau of Investigation to collect statistics on gender-based hate crimes.


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No To Hate Crime Laws
Posted by: NoPCZone on May 18, 2007 12:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If some racist/sexist/whatever commits a crime, they need to be punished under existing laws- not for their thoughts. Repulsive as some may be, the right to be wrong is protected under the US Constitution just as your views are.

Our system is based upon many things, but precedent carries a ton of weight. Start punishing people for holding views out of the mainstream and it may come back to bite you in the arse.

If the haters step across the line and break the criminal laws, punish them for the crime - not their thoughts. Punishing thought is a trademark of repressive regimes- not open liberal democracies. PC has gone more than far enough.

If a racist murderer is sentenced to life or death under existing laws, what good does a hate crime bill do? If a homophobe plotter is convicted for conspiracy to commit murder under existing laws, what good does a hate crime bill do? Neither does anything of value, but function to erode civil liberties of all people who might hold to unpopular or uncommon views. Some day advocating a free press might be an uncommon or unpopular view and you might need that legal slack.

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» RE: No To Hate Crime Laws Posted by: frankenfoot
» No... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: A narrower exception... Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: No... Posted by: frankenfoot
» RE: No... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: No To Hate Crime Laws Posted by: CatDad
» Good point...sort of Posted by: kepstein7777
» i think... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Good point...sort of Posted by: oregoncharles
Hate crime laws expose threats of tyranny.
Posted by: Markson on May 18, 2007 3:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do believe in using the label "hate crime" for its social significance, in exposing the bigotry at its root. Bigotry, which is authoritarianism defined, must be fought back feverishly for the health of any democracy. Thus, it is should not just be the concern of those who are not white, straight, Christian men (although hate crime legislation currently protects this demographic on the basis of color and religion). However, most of the public refuses to believe bigotry exists let alone that it has a negative effect on people. Hate crime laws force us to realize the threat of tyranny in our midst. No it's not perfect, laws rarely are.
My main fear about this legislation is that even if does succeed eventually, rape will still avoid being called out the obvious hate crime it is. The effect of rape is a person being targeted on the basis of gender (or sexual orientation), in which the assailant obviously enjoys the physical and psychological torture of another person. Sexuality just reinforces the bigotry fueling such an assault (To make it clear: if white supremacists masturbated before, during, or after a lynching of a black the sexual overtones do not replace the racism at its core.) For those hysterical apologists who insist sexual violence is "instinctive:" Violence is overwhelmingly learned behavior and its brutal coercion undermines the very definition of natural. Besides, just about any man could physically overwhelm a woman so there's no evolutionary advantage. All rationalizations rest on an impossible assumption: women and girls are not human.
"Political correctness" is the cowering at the feet of cultural sensitivity at the expensive of objectivity, truth. Since prejudice is an opinion, not a fact, those who oppose bigotry are not being "PC" but, in fact, challenging it. Besides, "PC" is phantom threat as only the goverment can censor; however, the public may freely disagree. When people talk about "PC run amok" they are referring to their displeasure at the fact that others may not only disagree with them but be vocal about it--democracy in action.

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» RE: Hate crime laws expose threats of tyranny. Posted by: Doug in Mount Vernon
A crime is a crime.
Posted by: kepstein7777 on May 18, 2007 3:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If your group isn't on the list, lobby to have it added. Is that how it works?

What if someone murders a group of white males? Or a group of pink and purple polka-dot gypsies? Sorry...Not on the list.

The following sentence says it all: "Women could stand to gain substantially from the law." It sounds like this more about scoring points for your particular interest group than about crime.

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» RE: White males and polka dot gypsies Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» Calm yourself, H_H Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Calm yourself, H_H Posted by: H_H
"Hate crime" is a ridiculous notion
Posted by: ISlamIslam on May 18, 2007 3:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Increasing the punishment for an illegal action simply because there was a verbal or written expression of "hate" means that society devalues the seriousness of the act in the absence of such expressions. Why should a violent crime such as armed robbery or rape be punished more severely because the perpetrator indicated it was done for reasons of "hate" than it would be if the perp kept his mouth shut about why he was doing it? We apply degrees to murder and other felonies based on actions. Motive (such as hating one's spouse or wanting to collect on life insurance) may help explain why someone plots and plans to kill someone, but we punish the plotting and planning when we convict the person of first-degree murder -- we're not punishing the fact that he may have hated his spouse. Extra punishment for "hate" is part of the slippery slope of irrational thought that is permeating our society and going to lead to our eventual ruin, if not stopped.

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It's better to be an emotionless killer, then?
Posted by: H_H on May 18, 2007 4:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The concept of a "hate crime" suggests that a mugger who robs a Jew because he's well-dressed should be punished less severely than a mugger who robs a Jew based on the belief that Jews get their money by cheating Christians. Someone who beats-up a person in a wheelchair for fun should be punished less severely than someone who does it because he thinks disabled people leech-off of society.

And so on. The concept itself is simply mind-bending.

Also mind-bending is the idea that if a straight man strikes a gay man due to unwanted touching, that's considered a vile act... yet if a straight woman strikes a straight man due to unwanted touching, that's considered an instance of the woman justly defending her personal space. By the standard routinely deployed by straight women against straight men, many acts of gay-bashing would be totally understandable.

For a vagina should magically nullify all standards for behavior.

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Intention?
Posted by: lclark on May 18, 2007 4:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are laws to cover violent acts.
"Hate Crime" legislation enters a murky area of intent and muzzles free speech.

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Also nonsensical...
Posted by: H_H on May 18, 2007 4:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"As we saw in the Colorado and Amish school shootings, women and girls are sometimes singled out for cruelty and even murder because of their gender, yet federal law does not consider these acts to be hate crimes..."

In BOTH examples, it's acknowledged that the killers killed themselves, so would the threat of being charged with "hate crimes" really have made any difference?

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» Solved it! Posted by: Joshua Holland
» RE: Solved it! Posted by: H_H
» RE: Solved it! Posted by: brasilaron
» ok, then Posted by: H_H
» RE: ok, then Posted by: zipper696
» RE: ok, then Posted by: H_H
READ THE FREAKIN' BILL
Posted by: LeaderofMen on May 18, 2007 4:18 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and one discovers that it is VERY specific. Violence has to accompany the crime. VIOLENCE.

Not words.
Not thoughts.
But rather ACTS carried out.

The religious right is once again LYING. Which is precisely what they are banded together to do: LIE.

This bill helps to prevent further destruction of our civilization despite the acts fomented by the exact people who are against the bill.

We've got your number you religious freaks. F*ck you.

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» nope. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» Yep Posted by: Doug in Mount Vernon
» Who are you talking to? nm Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: nope. Posted by: H_H
» RE: AD THE FREAKIN' BILL Posted by: oregoncharles
» RE: AD THE FREAKIN' BILL Posted by: albrechtkrausse
OK then, veto it....then repeal protection based on religion please.
Posted by: Samantha on May 18, 2007 5:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not calling for a veto- I want this to become law. I just have to laugh at the religious groups who are barking so loudly against this legislation. They are already a protected group under the existing hate crimes law!

I'm willing to not have "special protections" if they're willing to give up theirs.

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bogus
Posted by: karyse on May 18, 2007 5:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Uh, tell me again how murdering someone, anyone, wouldn't be a "hate crime"? Explain to me again please, how adding the crime "hate" to the crime "murder" accomplishes something.

So let's see, the murder charge receives a 15 to life, and the hate charge receives a ... oh, let's say a 5 to 10, which would make the total a 20 to life, unless of course the sentences would run concurrently which would NOT effectively change the orignial 15 to life. Oh, wait. Maybe we'll just at a "plus one day" to the sentence. That's not too harsh is it? No parole for anyone who is unfortunate enough to hate the person they have murdered. Well, it might work out okay, since most often woman are killed by men who promised to "love and cherish until death do us part."

Oh, wait, maybe it isn't murder, maybe it's ... oh, a comment made to someone. "You stupid bitch" for example. Now we get a 5 to 10, for speech. (Yes, don't kid yourself, many people argue nowadays that speech IS an action.)

Now, tell me again how "you stupid bitch" is somehow deserving of 5 to 10, where "you stupid bastard" is not? Oh wait, I forgot, white men are tougher psychologically than anyone else.

Now let's suppose that it was a woman, saying it to another woman, who are we protecting? and from whom? And if one of the women were black, and the other a, say, hispanic, which one is the more deserving of this protection? If an asian woman says it to a white woman does the power structure even it out and therefore no hate crime occurs? I got news for you, hate crime laws, like every other law every written is most often the bane of the weakest of the bunch, which translates to more minorities in prison.

Get a grip, paternalistic laws were something the original feminists opposed. I don't need the mommy government to tell me, or any other adults, what speech is harmful and it makes absolutely no difference to me whether I'm murdered by someone who hates me or someone who ... uh, I dunno, LOVES me.

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» Kill for hire: hate? Greed ! Posted by: BenCaxton12
The Destruction of America
Posted by: gellero on May 18, 2007 5:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where in the Constitution ( read it sometime ) Does the Federal Government have the right to regulate a local crime. Why would anyone want Federal power to increase. ?? This is what boggles me. What next, the FBI investigating spitting on the street??

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» Re: The Destruction of America Posted by: Samantha
» Try the Bill of Rights Posted by: cynyk
» RE: Try the Bill of Rights Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Try the Bill of Rights Posted by: albrechtkrausse
I Hate the way the FEDERAL Government....
Posted by: mizipi on May 18, 2007 5:37 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is trying to control every aspect of my life. If I say that "I LOVE MY FEDERAL GOVORNMENT" and put a few stickers on my car and a Chinese made American flag in my yard does that give me the right to go to Iraq and kill men, women and children?

Scenario: My name is Hatfield and I do not like my neighbor named McCoy. We are both toothless, inbred hillbillies. If I kill my nieghbor, is it OK, cuz he's just like me. Now, if he wuz some European from New York City and he come out here and I kill him, do I get punished worser?

Love thy neighbor as thyself. So, be like a NEOCON, love all of the people you kill and Jesus will let you in Heaven.

WAKE UP AMERICA! STUPID FEDERAL REGULATIONS ARE KILLING US AND OUR SOCIETY AND CULTURE!

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It's About Terrorism, Stupid!
Posted by: cynyk on May 18, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The difference between an ordinary crime of passion and a hate crime is that the latter is intended towards not only the victim but the entire group the victim represents. It is an act of terrorism. Don't we all agree that terrorist crimes should be treated more severely because of their broader effects on society?

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» RE: It's About Terrorism, Stupid! Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Jim Crow laws against straight males = population control
Posted by: apeshow on May 18, 2007 6:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fact

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What's wrong with equal protection under the law?
Posted by: ABetterFuture on May 18, 2007 6:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I read the article, and still couldn't find a coherent answer the the question:

Why do we need legislation segregating victims according to their naughty bits, or what they chosen to do with them in the days or weeks before they became a victim of a crime?

If the goal is to get tough on crime, then we should expand the laws to make harsher sentences to people who "hate" convenience store owners enough to take a bat to their head and deprive them of the fruits of their hard work. We should make harsher sentences for those that victimize the elderly or the police, who may be victimized as a result of a hateful gang initiation.

In fact, the latter two were offered by the damn republicans as a compromise in order to garner the support necessary to override a veto, thus forcing the creation of special victim classes. In spite of that fact, chez alternets ran with blog post that the damn republicans "hate gay people" in light of the threatened veto. I submit that, by extension, it appears that the damn democrats hate old folks and Corporal Beat Walker much more than the damn republicans hate gay folks.

I mean, if you're going to buy into hateful silliness, then you might as well go whole on the hog.

I support equal protection under the law. Therefore, I must oppose special sentencing handed down to criminals based on the genitalia and lifestyle choices of their victims.

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» Choice of words isn't your fault. Posted by: ABetterFuture
It's interesting
Posted by: freeda'all on May 18, 2007 6:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I find it interesting that this is being spun as something that would benefit women when the majority of the intent is to cover sexual orientation and 'gender presentation.' The stickler is that 'gender presentation' is a cover for the fact that more than a few supporters of this want this in there to cover crossdressers and transvestites, both of which involve voluntary & fetishistic behavior. Should we also cover the 'right' to not dress at all in public or the 'right' to misbehave badly (although legally)?

While I agree with the majority of what this legislation is trying to do the devil is in the details and it's the details that will derail this.

Peggy J. Rudd estimates that there are 15 to 20 million crossdressers (overwhelmingly straight white men) in America and covering them under legislation such as this would have the effect of compelling the rest of us to become a part of their playacting by having to 'respect' their 'gender identities' while they crossdress.

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» Crossdressers Posted by: Samantha
» RE: Crossdressers Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Crossdressers Posted by: Samantha
» RE: Crossdressers Posted by: brasilaron
» RE: Crossdressers Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: Crossdressers Posted by: freeda'all
Please veto, but he probably won't. Remember he hates Civil Rights
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on May 18, 2007 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and has already approved (with consent from both parties amazingly and deplorably) the Military Commission acts, the Patriot Acts, etc. Which, basically, take away HabeusCorpus, Free speech, Freedom to associate, nationalises the State's National Guard, etc. We have 'free speech zones' already. Now we are going to ban 'hate' speech (read anything offensive to someone or decided by the government to be not appropriate")!! Are there any civil libertarians left? Where is the ACLU when it comes down to the ADL-sponsored anti-freespeech bills is close to passing??

Now, they already have banned speech in Europe and many other countries. In many European countries you will only go to prison for speech, and usually not for more than a few years. And, European prisons are fairly safe and nice on prisoners (unlike UK prisons or, especially, US prisons where race gangs, fights, and rapes are a matter of course.) Of course, in Russia, China, Islamic countries you can get imprisoned for years, 'disappeared', tortured, etc.

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» European law ? Posted by: zipper696
» RE: uropean law ? Posted by: albrechtkrausse
Problem with Hate Crime Laws
Posted by: EncinoM on May 18, 2007 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate crime laws punishes thought. If a person acts with malice, punish the act, regardess if it is directed against an individual or a group. How is sometime determined if its is a hate crime, a utterance in the heat of a passion is sometimes enough. The problem is that such evidence is for prejudical that it ensures a conviction for a hate crime, regardless of fact that it may not be the motive.

Additionally, these laws expend federal law enforcement into releams that where menat to be exclusive to the state. THe majority of criminal law is state law, unless there is a federal interest. There is no federal interest.

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Hate, an easy accusation to make
Posted by: rwa on May 18, 2007 7:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During the question-and-answer period, Dershowitz was asked again about Carter, whom he called a “phony and a fraud” with a “hatred for Jews.”

So, if Carter and Dershowitz got into a shoving match, would our new regime charge him with a hate crime?

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It's About Gays, Stupid
Posted by: thirdmg on May 18, 2007 7:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If "sexual orientation" wasn't in the bill, the religious right wouldn't be up in arms, Bush wouldn't be threatening a veto, and this article wouldn't be on AlterNet. It's time for honesty about how much hatred, both overt and covert, is directed towards gays in our society.

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Gays = More poon for me
Posted by: apeshow on May 18, 2007 7:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So I support them 100% but this law sucks

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» RE: Gays = More poon for me Posted by: Doug in Mount Vernon
» If you say so... Posted by: ABetterFuture
» RE: Gays = More poon for me Posted by: apeshow
» RE: Gays = More poon for me Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Gays = More poon for me Posted by: cmaciain
I haven't read the pending legislation, but...
Posted by: TheTruthSeeker on May 18, 2007 11:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if Fuhrer Busch vetoes it, the bill must be a good one.

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I just read the bill.
Posted by: johndoraemi on May 18, 2007 8:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And it's not particularly odious. It explicitly reaffirms 1st amendment protected speech.

However, it clearly violates the 14th Amendment, and as such is clearly unconstitutional. The 14th amendment states:

"1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws."

Equal protection of the laws applies to every defendent in every case, and every victim too. That's the constitution. If you want to change that, you have to amend the constitution (if we still lived in a constiutional republic where this stuff still meant anything).

Creating special classes of victims is a terrible precedent that could easily be abused and warped into something not so smiley faced to those hereabouts. The recent animal enterprise terror legislation is an example you should familiarize yourself with.

This is giving more powers to a police state that is spiralling out of control. An unaccountable regime has flouted all the laws, burned most of the bill of rights, shit on the Geneva Conventions, the UN Charter and Nuermberg.

Inch by inch they have assumed more unassailable power for the government, and you are happy to cede them more power. That's madness.

There should be millions in the streets screaming for their arrest.

Yet the empire grinds on...

http://crimesofthestate.blogspot.com/

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» RE: I just read the bill. Posted by: EncinoM
IS THIS A PROGRESSIVE SIGHT? and wants to eliminate free speech?
Posted by: poppop_schell on May 19, 2007 11:14 AM   
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This bill doesn't just address acts actually done but speech also. How about me charging some people on AlterNet with hate speech towards Christians? I have seen postings that imply or even advocate violence against some on the political right. There would be a lot of Alternet folks spending time behind bars.

The First Amendment is there to protect us against a facist minority either from the right or left.

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The forces against Galileo
Posted by: bob t on May 19, 2007 11:13 PM   
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Punishing people for their thoughts is already in existence, it is called the Cheney doctrine or as Ron Suskind so ably titled it as the one percent doctrine.
In the not to distant future I can imagine that the right wingnuts will find a way to punish everyone for their thoughts, not just actions which is what is supposed to be the acctepted jurisprudence.
So if anyone is not a right winger they will be punished. Thats what confession is about, the destruction of thought. It's the end of the enlightenment. The endarkenment is being forced upon us. The forces against Galileo are once again in the ascendency, and nearing their zenith.

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Of Course...
Posted by: bob t on May 19, 2007 11:26 PM   
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...Bush will veto this. To pass it might give women a bit more protection and one day lead to their becoming at least second class citizens equal to children. Heaven forbid women should ever be regarded and treated as first class citizens.
Male, authoritarian, dogmatic and absolutism shall reign forever or until it kills us all. Degrading half the population, women, is an
abomination and may well bring about the downfall of our species if it runs to far amok. And it has been to far amok for some two thousand years.
WWJD. Methinks He would never do such or endorse such degradation. End this degradation and women will value themselves much more highly and that will bring about the end of many if not most abortions.
Male dominated christian religions just cannot understand that because it flies in the face of their totally entrenched male domination of women.
We are put here on this earth, with FREE WILL, which gives us the right to choose to better ourselves by finding solutions to our human tendencies. But when it comes to women we are failing miserably.
I'm a white male and so say I.

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This Has a Long Herstory: Bush I took it out of the Original
Posted by: odcherenow on May 20, 2007 5:18 PM   
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The Father, Bush, the First, took gender out of the original Act for three reasons: 1. We don't know how pervasive violence is aganist females is in the U.S. Why? Because statistics are not collected on crimes against those not included in the Act. Crimes like rape in the parking lot of your office and mutilation, kidnapping and torture of girls and women in some cellar by some sicko. 2. If we don't know how really common these crimes are, how pervasive, we can never get mad about it and rally to defend ourselves and our sisters, mothers, daughters, by kicking them out. 3. We remain a cheap labor force, uninformed and passive, blind to the way we are exploited and manipulated.
Bravo George, the First and the spawn, George, the Second, the great vetoer.

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