COMMENTS: 95
The Religious Right Has Had Its Day? Fat Chance
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Moderate evangelical minister Jim Wallis, the author of the piece, confidently asserted that the Religious Right's day has passed.
"We have now entered the post-Religious Right era," wrote Wallis, author of the popular book God's Politics: Why the Right Gets It Wrong and the Left Doesn't Get It. "Though religion has had a negative image in the last few decades, the years ahead may be shaped by a dynamic and more progressive faith that will make needed social change more possible."
It's a stunning claim that might have sold more than a few magazines. But is it true?
A careful reading of Wallis' column reveals that his evidence for the death of the Religious Right could charitably be called thin: He asserts that younger evangelicals are deserting the Religious Right "in droves" and that a more broadly based evangelical agenda is emerging.
This new agenda, Wallis insists, will shift the focus away from divisive social issues like same-sex marriage and intelligent design and toward "poverty and economic justice, global warming, HIV/AIDS, sex trafficking, genocide in Darfur and the ethics of the war in Iraq."
Concludes Wallis confidently, "The era of the Religious Right is now past, and it's up to all of us to create a new day."
If the Religious Right is dead, someone forgot to tell that to many leading political figures. The unusually early start to the 2008 campaign season has been marked by a number of aspiring Republican presidential hopefuls contorting themselves to please Religious Right honchos.
One of the nation's leading experts on the Religious Right, John C. Green, a professor of political science at the University of Akron, said that Wallis has probably overstated the case in proclaiming a post-Religious Right era.
"Wallis has a point about the Religious Right losing its near monopoly on political discourse in American politics," Green said. "The rise of the 'Religious Left' and the reaction of moderates means that religious voters will encounter a wider range of options at election time.
"However," Green continued, "it may be premature to claim that the Religious Right organizations will fade away or that their target constituencies will withdraw from politics. Indeed, the existence of other religious voices may lead the Religious Right to step up its activism in the short run. The last 30 years have shown that religious conservatives are very resourceful and not easily discouraged in the face of opposition."
Another Religious Right watcher, journalist Michelle Goldberg of the on-line magazine Salon, whose 2006 book Kingdom Coming: The Rise of Christian Nationalism is highly critical of the Religious Right, isn't persuaded by claims that the movement is dead.
"I sincerely hope that Jim Wallis is right. I also sincerely doubt it," Goldberg said. "Certainly, the movement has suffered some major setbacks, including the falls of Ted Haggard and Tom DeLay and the loss of Congress. But the Religious Right has been pronounced dead many, many times before -- after the televangelist scandals of the late '80s, after Clinton was elected and reelected and during the 1999 presidential race, when The Economist opined, 'The armies of righteousness, which once threatened to overwhelm the Republican Party, are downcast and despondent.'"
Goldberg noted that the 2006 election may in some ways have strengthened the Religious Right, since incumbents representing some of the last vestiges of northeastern moderate Republicanism lost their seats.
Is the Religious Right kaput? Even a casual glance at some recent news stories would seem to indicate otherwise. Consider, for example, the case of Mitt Romney.
Running for a U.S. Senate seat from Massachusetts against Ted Kennedy in 1994, Romney positioned himself as a different kind of Republican -- a socially liberal one. On the campaign trail, Romney vowed to defend legal abortion and be an even bigger champion of gay rights than Kennedy.
Today Romney sounds like an entirely different man. After losing to Kennedy and going on to be elected governor of Massachusetts for a single term, Romney has decided to seek the Republican presidential nomination. He now blasts legal abortion and plays up his opposition to same-sex marriage. He also accepted an invitation to deliver this spring's commencement address at TV preacher Pat Robertson's Regent University.
What happened? Political observers say the answer is obvious: Social liberalism might have been fine for a Massachusetts Republican, but it will never play well on the national GOP stage. To survive the primaries, Romney must placate the Religious Right -- and that's exactly what he's doing.
He's not the only one. U.S. Sen. John McCain (R-Ariz.), a man who once blasted top Religious Right leaders as "agents of intolerance," now seems permanently affixed to TV preacher Jerry Falwell and has been making the rounds of various Religious Right gatherings.
Even Rudy Giuliani, noted for his social liberalism during his eight-year tenure as New York City mayor, felt compelled recently to explain how much he personally loathes legal abortion on Fox News Channel's Hannity & Colmes.
"Where I stand on abortion is, I oppose it," Giuliani said during the Feb. 6 broadcast. "I don't like it. I hate it. I think abortion is something that, as a personal matter, I would advise somebody against."
Giuliani went on to explain that even though he believes abortion should remain legal despite his despising of it, he would have no problem putting limits on the procedure and appointing anti-choice justices like Antonin Scalia and Samuel Alito to the Supreme Court. He also stressed his opposition to same-sex marriage.
A week later, Robertson's Regent University announced that Giuliani would speak this month at an "Executive Leadership Series."
But Giuliani still has some work to do. Richard Land, head of the Southern Baptist Convention's Ethics & Religious Liberty Commission, told the Associated Press in early March that he expects many conservative evangelicals to look askance at the thrice-married former mayor. Land pointed out that Giuliani appeared in public with the woman who became his third wife while still married to wife number two.
"I mean, this is divorce on steroids," Land said. "To publicly humiliate your wife in that way, and your children -- that's rough. I think that's going to be an awfully hard sell, even if he weren't pro-choice and pro-gun control."
Around the same time, McCain was working the crowd at the National Religious Broadcasters (NRB) convention in Orlando. McCain's Feb. 19 remarks at a reception for NRB members was not open to the media, but the Orlando Sentinel reported that the Arizona senator reiterated his support for overturning Roe v. Wade, the 1973 case that legalized abortion. McCain also expressed his opposition to same-sex marriage, although he declined to endorse a constitutional amendment banning it. (Romney and U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback also appeared at NRB-related events.)
Following the meeting, the Rev. Patrick Mahoney of the Christian Defense Coalition, a rabidly anti-abortion group, told the Associated Press that McCain's visit was helpful.
"He recognized he cannot be president of the United States without reaching out to the evangelicals," Mahoney said. "There definitely is an uneasy relationship between McCain and people of faith, but he is reaching out and he is breaking down those walls. He helped himself in that room tremendously today."
Days after the NRB appearance, McCain spoke at a luncheon cosponsored by the Discovery Institute, a Seattle organization that promotes "intelligent design." McCain had previously endorsed teaching intelligent design in public schools.
McCain seems aware that his efforts to court the very religious conservatives that he once mocked are putting him in a difficult position. New York Times columnist Maureen Dowd reported that during a Feb. 23 McCain speech in Seattle, an audience member challenged him by asking, "I've seen in the press where in your run for the presidency, you've been sucking up to the Religious Right. I was just wondering how soon do you predict a Republican candidate for president will start sucking up to the old Rockefeller wing of the Republican Party?"
McCain replied, "I'm probably going to get in trouble, but what's wrong with sucking up to everybody?"
Although not an announced candidate, former House Speaker Newt Gingrich is also working to mend fences with the Religious Right. Gingrich, who has been making overtures about a possible run, appeared on Focus on the Family founder James C. Dobson's radio program in early March and declared that he had "gotten on my knees and sought God's forgiveness" for moral lapses. (Gingrich was apparently referring to his extra-marital affair with a young aide. He later divorced his wife and married his mistress.)
Gingrich's confession that he had an affair at the same time he was attacking President Bill Clinton for his dalliance with intern Monica Lewinsky has not rattled one top Religious Right leader. Falwell has invited Gingrich to speak at Liberty University's commencement in May and says he does not regret that.
"As a pastor with more than a half-century of experience of working with fallible people, I have ministered to a few men who have experienced moral collapse," wrote Falwell in a message to supporters. "I have usually been able to tell which of these men was genuinely seeking forgiveness for their actions. My sense tells me that Mr. Gingrich is such a man. He is today happily married to wife Callista, and committed to be the husband he should be."
As if all of this were not enough, the GOP field features two candidates who are closely identified with the social conservative camp: U.S. Sen. Sam Brownback and former Arkansas Gov. Mike Huckabee. Both men have been staples at Religious Right gatherings over the past few years. (Huckabee is an ordained Southern Baptist minister.)
In early March, Huckabee traveled to Colorado Springs to meet with the executive board of Dobson's Focus on the Family. The Associated Press reported that Huckabee proudly pledged fealty to the Religious Right and took a shot at his rival Brownback.
Meeting with reporters afterwards, Huckabee asserted, "A Washington address is not an advantage." He urged the Republicans to rededicate themselves to a "family values" agenda and supported Focus' right to intervene in politics.
Huckabee is apparently the second GOP contender to meet with Dobson face to face. A video posted on YouTube shows Romney talking with conservative columnist Ann Coulter and Religious Right attorney Jay Sekulow backstage at the recent gathering of the Conservative Political Action Committee in Washington, D.C. Romney is heard saying he had a "good meeting" with Dobson that "lasted almost two hours." Romney says of Dobson, "I think he's still open [to supporting me]."
These efforts to placate the Religious Right 18 months before the election would seem to indicate that the movement is not dead and that its activists are well poised to affect the outcome. How strong is the movement in the wake of last year's elections?
It's beyond dispute that the Religious Right is furious over November's elections, but that doesn't mean its leaders and activists are going to quietly slink away. In fact, evidence indicates just the opposite: These groups remain politically astute and are right now laying plans to use their political leverage to influence the lives of all Americans.
The Religious Right is well aware of the ground it lost in November -- and is busy making plans to regain it. In late February, The New York Times reported that the Council for National Policy (CNP), a secretive group of far-right activists, convened at a Florida resort for a closed-door meeting to plot strategy. Members are clearly anxious to make certain that the GOP nominates one of their own, even if they aren't sure yet who that is.
The Times reported that many CNP members remain suspicious of McCain, Romney and Giuliani -- despite the efforts of the three men to woo religious conservatives. Attendees heard from two hopefuls: Huckabee and long shot candidate U.S. Rep. Duncan Hunter (R-Calif.). Brownback, the Times noted, had addressed the group in October.
A certain amount of anxiety hangs over the CNP, reported the Times. But one participant was confident that the leading GOP candidates could regain the group's trust simply by recommitting themselves to its agenda.
"It's called secondary virginity," quipped Grover Norquist, head of Americans for Tax Reform. "It is a big movement in high school and also available for politicians."
The CNP isn't the only far-right organization looking to extract promises from the GOP hopefuls. The Family Research Council (FRC) has announced a 2007 "Values Voter Summit" to take place in October. The FRC event is likely to be something of a beauty pageant, giving attendees an opportunity to screen GOP presidential hopefuls for ideological purity.
For those who can't travel to Washington, the FRC is planning a big push for Web-based activism this year. Rolling Stone magazine reported that the drive will focus on videos and podcasts that the group hopes will reach millions in advance of the 2008 elections.
The Religious Right's message to the GOP is clear: Pay attention to us.
"We want to be sure that the lessons of the last election have been learned, and that the Republicans understand that we are not a lock for the GOP," Charmaine Yoest, FRC vice president of communications, told Rolling Stone. "When you're looking at razor-thin margins, you better pay attention to your base."
Such threats are the Religious Right's bread and butter. And in primary elections especially, which tend to attract more ideologically driven voters, playing to the base can pay off. The Religious Right's best shot at power continues to be making sure the Republican Party remains responsive to its demands -- a drive that so far appears to be working.
In the meantime, for many Religious Right groups it's business as usual. In Texas, the Rev. Rick Scarborough has announced a partnership with Religious Right activist Alan Keyes that aims to mobilize 100,000 "values voters" and 5,000 "Patriot Pastors" who will vow to "vote their Christian values on election day 2008." Further details remain sketchy, but Scarborough promises to use the project "to awaken a sleeping church before it is too late."
Falwell also has ambitious goals for 2008. Late last year, he announced plans to form a council of allied religious leaders to screen GOP candidates for ideological purity.
"We are hoping to find the next Ronald Reagan," Falwell said. (See "TV Preacher Falwell And Allies Hope To Find 'Next Ronald Reagan,'" January 2007 Church & State.)
Other factions of the Religious Right are busy taking aim at Democratic Party hopefuls. The Southern Baptist Convention's Land, who fancies himself something of a political powerbroker these days, recently remarked on "the Darth Vader-like specter of a Hillary Clinton presidency" in The Washington Post. Land, whose 16-million member denomination probably includes at least a few Democrats, seemed unconcerned about uttering such inflammatory and partisan comments.
Meanwhile, Charisma magazine, a publication aimed at Pentecostal Christians, is trying to knock Clinton rival U.S. Sen. Barack Obama (D-Ill.) down a few pegs. A column in the March issue by Charisma publisher Stephen Strang praised Brownback and went on to incorrectly assert that Obama was raised as a Muslim, warning ominously, "Who would have thought that a man raised as a Muslim would become the darling of the liberal media and be put forward as a possible presidential candidate? I think you can see that we are engaged in serious spiritual warfare. So I am calling on all intercessors and all those concerned about the outcome of this election -- whether you are a Republican or a Democrat -- to pray as never before."
Religious Right groups remain active at the grassroots level as well. Their power tends to be magnified during the primary season, when only the most committed -- and ideologically driven -- voters show up at the polls.
This trend is even more pronounced in a state like Iowa, which chooses convention delegates through a labor-intensive caucus system as opposed to a primary. The Politico newspaper, a D.C. publication that covers politics, reported last month that Steve Scheffler, head of the Iowa Christian Alliance (ICA), is poised to play a major role in that state's Republican caucus.
The ICA broke away from the Christian Coalition a few years ago and quickly established itself as influential in the state GOP. The Politico called Scheffler "the man to see for Republicans courting the Christian right." The paper noted that during its interview with Scheffler, he took a phone call from a top McCain supporter in Iowa, inviting him to meet the Arizona senator.
The next president will probably see vacancies on the Supreme Court as well as have the opportunity to shape church-state relations in areas like "faith-based" funding, stem-cell research, the proper role of religion in public life and other issues. Too much is at stake for the Religious Right to decide to sit out the election.
Those skeptical of the claims of the Religious Right's death have history on their side. Wallis is hardly the first to announce the death of the Religious Right. The movement was proclaimed dead after Falwell shut down the Moral Majority in 1989, and after Bill Clinton was elected president in 1992.
More recently, some analysts predicted the demise of the Religious Right when Robertson cut loose the Christian Coalition in December of 2001. The group did indeed go into decline, but other organizations quickly filled the gap.
Americans United Executive Director Barry W. Lynn, whose recent book Piety & Politics: The Right-Wing Assault on Religious Freedom scores the Religious Right for its theocratic tendencies, said no one should assume that the movement is on the ropes.
Lynn said Religious Right leaders oversee sprawling and well-funded radio, television and Web-based operations that reach millions of Americans daily. Their pressure groups are well established in Washington and continue to enjoy unprecedented access to many far-right legislators.
"It would be comforting to think that the era of the Religious Right has passed," Lynn said, "but I see absolutely no evidence that this has happened. Organizations determined to tear down the church-state wall are not going to give up the power they spent 40 years amassing simply because not everything went well for them during the last election cycle. These groups will continue to press their theocratic agenda, and we must continue to resist it."
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Posted by: Intraspecto on Apr 16, 2007 1:45 AM
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Just like backing gun control, which alienates most of the working class stiffs that vote Republican, you will cut your own throats politically over nothing.
Grow up and let go of hatred for religion, because that is the only way they will stop hating you.
-An agnostic
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» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: Tom Degan
» Correction
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Correction
Posted by: Science1
» Aren't Kool Aid Drinkers cute when they're little?
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: aussidawg
» Yeah, it's all under my control
Posted by: kackermann
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: Intraspecto
» Yet another neaderthal
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: kackermann
» God doesn't exist. Wake up! Religions kill more humans in the world than anything else.
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 16, 2007 3:09 AM
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Like the poor, the religious right will always be with us. But I do believe that their heavy influence on America's political dialogue is all but finished. 2008 will prove as to whether or not I'm correct in my assumptions.
Pray for peace.
Tpm Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: The Religious Wrong
Posted by: robmikejas
» I agree.... they are now only about 29% of the vote.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I agree.... they are now only about 29% of the vote.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Quote made in 1982 by Gary North, Reconstructionist. Long term planning by
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: Quote made in 1982 by Gary North, Reconstructionist. Long term planning by
Posted by: kackermann
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 16, 2007 3:33 AM
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Case at point: Intraspecto. The majority of voters have had it with his kind of Karl Rove rhetoric. They want answers, not asinine remarks.
As for Republican presidential candidates, not one has offered a way of ending the Iraq war and they never will because neoconservatives have a death grip on the GOP.
Like Intraspecto's vitriol, more and more citizens – religious and otherwise -- are rejecting the imperialist ideology of neocons and their hypocritical Christian “right” bedfellows.
Hugh E. Scott, editor of FreedomCentralUSA.com, an investigative website dedicated to the destruction of domestic fascism (neoconservatism) using truth and the Internet as WMDs.
I also edit King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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» RE: Intraspecto is an example of why Republicans will lose the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» So Dino, what's your excuse this time?
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: So Dino, what's your excuse this time?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: So Dino, what's your excuse this time?
Posted by: Knowmad
» Excuse me?!?
Posted by: peaknik35
» Since Bush started the Iraq War, it's his responsibility to tell us how to end it, not the Dems.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Since Bush started the Iraq War, it's his responsibility to tell us how to end it, not the Dems.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Bin Laden is a distraction, DinoConservasaurus. Bush's insane war of choice is what counts.
Posted by: HughScott
» Gather round folks. Dino's doing comedy again.
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Gather round folks. Dino's doing comedy again.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Gather round folks. Dino's doing comedy again.
Posted by: Knowmad
» Don't sully America
Posted by: kackermann
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: Intraspecto
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: kackermann
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Intraspecto is an example of why Republicans will lose the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Intraspecto
» RE: Intraspecto is an example of why Republicans will lose the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Intraspecto
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Apr 16, 2007 3:50 AM
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Remember, the Religious Righties are fanatics. When things don't go 100% their way, they don't just take up another hobby, or go have a beer.
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 16, 2007 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gone are the days when Republicans and Conservatives call blacks, “niggers” in public, they have become more cunning to get their point across. Their words have changed, but their tune remains the same and it resonates all over the country.
Watch what happens to Obama.
Conservatives I know, don't call it Basketball. They call it Niggerball.
.
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» RE: acism is the Rabid Right’s Ace in the Hole
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Racism is universal, but conservatives fan the flames of hatred.
Posted by: shangrilalad
» RE: acism is universal, but conservatives fan the flames of hatred.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» "The Mask of Sanity"
Posted by: shangrilalad
» RE: "The Mask of Sanity"
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Welfare and "handsouts".
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Welfare queens
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Welfare queens
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: wawa on Apr 16, 2007 5:02 AM
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But, there are MORE moderate and progressive Christians in the USA than the fundamentalist kind [Alternet doesn't publish articles about -or from them though]
We moderate and progressive Christians are NOT represented by the right and we are fed up-some of us are even flaming mad over the miss-use of God by politicians to get elected.
Here's an idea Alternet-why not investigate how many millions Hillary has taken from AIPAC.
AIPAC does NOT represent all USA Jews,
The religious right does NOT represent most USA Christians.
e
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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» Well Said. Louder, Please!
Posted by: Sparks56
» STOP the name calling! Not all who are religious are on the right...
Posted by: Voicedude
» RE: STOP the name calling! Not all who are religious are on the right...
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: STOP the name calling! Not all who are religious are on the right...
Posted by: Voicedude
» RE: it is OVER for the right
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Apr 16, 2007 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the so-called religious right becomes a de-funded ideology it will continue to be a major influence on American politics.
Time magazine was unbelievably irresponsible to publish that article. The author manufactured evidence to support hollow arguments for his premise. A premise that has no basis in truth or reality.
Money is the way of American politics. MONEY. Get it? As long as fear-loving Christians fund warmongering, lying, unethical Christian politicians it will continue to be a force majeur in the US.
Anyone who is paying attention to this issue can see the EVIDENCE before us with regard to this: Mitt Romney is being funded for being anti-gay and a flip-flopper. This proves that unethical Christians are willing to pour tens of thousands of dollars into his unethical campaign. John McCain somehow reverses his thought processes and joins the religious right. Tens of thousands of dollars are poured into his campaign as well - by unethical fear-filled Christians who love his stance on war.
US politics is filled to the brim with Christians who hate evidence, who despise diversity, who love manufactured facts and reality, and who, at the drop of a hat, will turn a blind eye to all that is good and right in the world. And, they will empty their wallets to secure that as a continued established way of life for themselves and the children they bring up.
Oh no. The religious right is just regrouping.
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Posted by: reval on Apr 16, 2007 5:55 AM
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Remember Diderot's words: Mankind will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
His words ring more true today than ever.
WVCSR
Rev. El Mundo
Encourage them to visit the congregation soon.
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» People - check out Reval's link above (WVCSR)
Posted by: Knowmad
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Posted by: xenacat on Apr 16, 2007 6:49 AM
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Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Apr 16, 2007 6:56 AM
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But like Rick Warren he has as just much to gain by way of peer approval and self esteem by moving centrist Democrats to the right and into the Evangelical camp as from persuading Evangelicals to give some lip service to environmental and social issues.
The point that Wallis misses is that his one book and web based "Sojourners " isn't remotely the media equal of Dobson's Focus on Family much less Fallwell's Christian Broadcasting Network -- and that Warren, though a nice enough fellow in many ways, will never actually do more than gently chide Dobson and Fallwell's more extreme positions -- he will never actually oppose them.
The important thing to remember is that that the Religious Right's leadership is far more political than faithful ... and far more self-serving than idealistic -- and their movement has survived it's ups and downs for over a hundred years. These are the direct descendents of the good folks who brought us the Drug Wars, the 1920 edition of the KKK, Alcohol Prohibition, and the Scopes Trial.
They are power brokers; their path to wealth and power doesn't depend on mustering majorities or achieving legislative victories on their key issues: abortion, gays, guns, evolution, and Harry Potter. All they need to keep the contributions flowing is to keep 'fighting the good fight' against the godless and the liberal. All they need to do to maintain their influencee in Washington is to be seen as reliably delivering a relatively small handfull of voters in key states in key races.
And frankly, I can't think of anything stupider than putting on our Munchkin hats and singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" because Time Magazine wanted a snappy headline for a feature article one week.
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Posted by: LoveYourEnemies on Apr 16, 2007 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You will never get rid of the religious right. They may go underground and fester like a growth of deadly fungus for a while, but they will never go away. Why? They are motivated by hatred, fear, self-righteousness stemming from low self-esteem, lack of intellectual curiosity and intellectual honesty, a persecution complex, and plain ignorance. Again, I was one of them. I'm free now. I had to face the truth that all of us are equal and most of us are trying to make sense of this world and secure a safe place for our families. There are only a few who make us scared of those things that go bump in the night (terrorism, illegal immigration, "secular humanism", homosexuality).
Look at it this way. A Jehovah's Witness knocks on your door at 7 in the morning on a Saturday and wakes you up. You open the door and they try to shove one of their comic book magazines in your face. You are angry and basically kick them off your doorstep rudely. You think you've discouraged them? Not at all. Instead, you've motivated them more. Why? Because they have a persecution complex. They figure, "I've suffered for Jehovah." And they are motivated to do it again and again.
I've listened to Dobson's Focus of the Family. I've heard episodes where he comes back from the field of battle against the evil legions of liberal secular humanists (they actually said that mess once). He is actually GLEEFUL when people call him names and they celebrate it on air. "I took one for the Lord!!! Look at me, I'm a martyr!"
How do you stop them? I don't know. But, berating them isn't working. All you have to do is say, "Look, you've had the government for SIX YEARS. Six years!!!" They ranted about the "War on Christmas" during their heyday. You can't stop someone who has a persecution complex. They're just too angry.
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» RE: You can't shut down fanaticism
Posted by: reval
» re:
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» RE: You can't shut down fanaticism
Posted by: morticia
» Not Education...But Being Clobbered on the Head...
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: You can't shut down fanaticism - Education is the key - and they know it too!!!
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: kenhymes on Apr 16, 2007 7:37 AM
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THE RELIGIOUS IS RIGHT IN THE US IS UTTERLY, PERMENENTLY LOSING EVERY SIGNIFICANT BATTLE ON THEIR AGENDA. Only people who have no real contact with religious life could swallow these fear-mongering stories. The youth are abandoning right wing churches in droves. the growth and confidence are in small and medium sized churches with moderate to progressive social values. More significantly, most young christians are much more interested in non-Church expressions of faith: music, "emergent" church evenets without the trappings of traditional structures, and internet discussion and support groups.
The religious right peaked a while ago. The political pressure the national organizations are able to bring is the result of organizing and fund-raising that happened between ten and thirty years ago. Yes, there are a large number of right-wing fundamentalists. But their ability to influence events is waning quickly.
Further, this kind of talk from leftists is insulting to multiple constituencies, and pointlessly so. It insults Christians who are working to change the idea of what church is; it insults leftists who believe in God; it insults secularists who fought hard to win battles over gay rights and religion-free education, and WON!! More cruelly, it insults those who really live in theocracies, countries where women are beaten on the street, people are routinely murdered, for violating the majority's idea of purity. This is never going to happen here. We're much too mercantilist, hedonistic and individualistic.
I really don't see why the "Internet Left" is so focused on this issue. It's important that we continue to support gay teenagers, and young women in need of reproductive choice, these are the real victims of the right wing fundies. But the core issues of the left - economic justice and pluralism - are not only poorly served but actively undermined by sweeping, ill-informed assertions about religious life in America.
All the articles focus either on legal battles in a small town - did we expect there would be ZERO resistance to social change? - or on overblown shells of national organizations, quoting those groups' own claims of membership and influence as if they were fact, without any corroborating evidence of their impact. The Bush White House is the friendliest to these groups in the history of our country, and it is a political disaster, which has delivered very little for their agenda. Are you expecting that Americans will elect someone further to the right now? Get real. Enjoy and exploit progress, don't indulge in masturbatory horror fantasies about monstrous enemies, when they're actually rather sad little scared groups of people having trouble with change in the society.
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» RE: Article is wrong in every way.
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Article is wrong in every way.
Posted by: Maryanne
» RE: Article is wrong in every way.
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: Basenjis on Apr 16, 2007 8:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Newt
Posted by: charemor
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Posted by: reval on Apr 16, 2007 9:10 AM
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Rev. El
Pastor, WVCSR
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Posted by: babs on Apr 16, 2007 10:02 AM
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Ideological purity? ROFL
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» RE: did anyone else get a laugh from this one...
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: did anyone else get a laugh from this one... I loved it.
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Apr 16, 2007 10:07 AM
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Yet another tedious article about fundy Xtians who are going nowhere. Part of the reason the right doesn't take us seriously is that we tend never to see ANY threat from Islam, which can become equally (at least!) as demented and hateful a religion as Christianity. Alternet likes to go for the easy targets.
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 16, 2007 10:27 AM
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Posted by: kittynboi on Apr 16, 2007 10:34 AM
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The late 80s and early 90s. So what did they do without viable candidates and Democrats int he white house?
What they will likely do this time; they don't retreeat from politics, but they do shift some of their focus and resources from the Federal level to the state and local level. Much of the 90s saw them focusing intently on infiltrating school boards, running stealth candidates, etc. They just move on to greener pastures if the federal government is temporarily unwelcoming to them.
I expect them to do this after 08, and maybe for the next few elections, because it will give them time to run and groom candidates they approve of, preparing them for a presidential run in 2012 or beyond.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 16, 2007 11:35 AM
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Each generation must learn again the lessons from earlier generations. This generation is learning, by virtue of the clear visibility of its leadership, that those who claim to be holier-than-thou have clay feet. Holier-than-thou must contend with reality, and at the moment reality has begun to take a toll.
But the ingrained streak of punitive nativism that the religious right represents is as American as mom and apple pie. I wish Jim Wallis well and hope he's got his finger on the pulse. But it's too early to count our chickens.
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» RE: Yes, the religious right prospers on calls to duty. And remember, the courts are packed
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» And that's the truth.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on Apr 16, 2007 11:47 AM
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Posted by: Gitaiba on Apr 16, 2007 11:54 AM
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» RE: The GOP Is Fading Anyway
Posted by: Ellie1
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Posted by: xbj on Apr 16, 2007 12:43 PM
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And having nothing at all to do with Christ's life, His teachings, anything He said, His death, or REAL PACIFIST CHRISTIANITY.
The "Religious" "Right" was NEVER Christian, it was Christianist from its very inception, a political movement of power and based on establishing a fascist theocracy based on intolerance and endless war against all other religions, including Judaism. As Zionism had done earlier in the 20th century with Judaism, the "Religious" "Right" did with its own creation Christianism, and now that the entire movement has been exposed, as is also the case with Zionism, as anti-Christian and anti-Judaic, it will fall and fall hard.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the Prince of Endless War Against Evildoers Who Want Us Destroyed and Wiped Off The Face Of The Earth. Lucifer is the god of war. And far too much religion, turning it into anti-religion.
And nothing any Christianist or Zionist or their "flipside", Islamicists are going to say is going to change that simple fact of what the Man did, what He said, what He taught, and how He lived and died and how and what He died for.
Peace. Love your enemy. Bless those that curse you.
The "religious" "right" has always been neither from its very inception, and now it's terminal as more truly caring and considerate and loving people wake up to the truth that they've been duped and lied to and USED.
Christ's sheep ARE being separated from Lucifer's goats, and one road is very wide while the other is very narrow.
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» RE: The "Religious" "Right" is over after exposing itself
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 16, 2007 12:55 PM
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Revenues have also fallen -- from a high of $26.5 million in 1996 to $1.3 million in 2004. The Coalition is now in debt because the IRS revoked its tax-exempt status for distributing "voter guides" which had a partisan bias.
The revocation cost the Coalition $300,000 in back taxes plus penalties. In an attempt to regain sound financial footing, the Coalition reorganized as the "Christian Coalition of America." However, churches that once embraced the CCA have disassociated themselves from it for fear of losing their own tax-exempt status.
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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Posted by: Dboy on Apr 16, 2007 2:04 PM
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I live in Dallas Texas and I assure you that the christians here are getting bigger and dumber every day. We have what I consider the worst form of christian: the Alpha Consumer Christian. We have corporate churches with parking lots filled with Escalades and Hummers. Christians here in Dallas give money to their deity using chicken buckets for offering plates.
This is how I know God does not exist. If he did, then certainly Dallas would have been destroyed by a meteor by now. This place is a christian shit-hole.
Dboy
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Posted by: Dboy on Apr 16, 2007 2:06 PM
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I live in Dallas Texas and I assure you that the christians here are getting bigger and dumber every day. We have what I consider the worst form of christian: the Alpha Consumer Christian. We have corporate churches with parking lots filled with Escalades and Hummers. Christians here in Dallas give money to their deity using chicken buckets for offering plates.
This is how I know God does not exist. If he did, then certainly Dallas would have been destroyed by a meteor by now. This place is a christian shit-hole.
Dboy
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» RE: Time article is just an attempt to stir up the readership
Posted by: animalleaderisgreat
» RE: Time article is just an attempt...Have you guys read any polls?
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: humanity101 on Apr 16, 2007 8:18 PM
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Posted by: siddesu on Apr 16, 2007 9:28 PM
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so, from that premise and what i see, i'd put forward the opinion that religious extremism in the US is hardly facing a risk of having no followers.
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Posted by: kackermann on Apr 17, 2007 7:13 PM
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By my score, it's something:
Normal, thinking people: 25,123
Religion and its sheep: 0
In what other profession could you be so spectacularly wrong and still be believed?
What the hell does that say about these people?
How about Foley wanting to smoke boys two at a time?
What about Taggart puffing pickles and while riding the snake?
At least he didn't steal scrap metal to get his drugs. He just stole from his flock of sheep. But he's cured now too. It only took a few weeks.
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» RE: But the end of the world is coming!!!
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: Intraspecto on Apr 16, 2007 1:45 AM
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Just like backing gun control, which alienates most of the working class stiffs that vote Republican, you will cut your own throats politically over nothing.
Grow up and let go of hatred for religion, because that is the only way they will stop hating you.
-An agnostic
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» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: Tom Degan
» Correction
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Correction
Posted by: Science1
» Aren't Kool Aid Drinkers cute when they're little?
Posted by: AdamSelene40
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: aussidawg
» Yeah, it's all under my control
Posted by: kackermann
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: Intraspecto
» Yet another neaderthal
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: The Religious Right will right again.
Posted by: kackermann
» God doesn't exist. Wake up! Religions kill more humans in the world than anything else.
Posted by: humanity101
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Apr 16, 2007 3:09 AM
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Like the poor, the religious right will always be with us. But I do believe that their heavy influence on America's political dialogue is all but finished. 2008 will prove as to whether or not I'm correct in my assumptions.
Pray for peace.
Tpm Degan
Goshen, NY
"The Rant" by Tom Degan
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» RE: The Religious Wrong
Posted by: robmikejas
» I agree.... they are now only about 29% of the vote.
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I agree.... they are now only about 29% of the vote.
Posted by: oregoncharles
» Quote made in 1982 by Gary North, Reconstructionist. Long term planning by
Posted by: mdruss42
» RE: Quote made in 1982 by Gary North, Reconstructionist. Long term planning by
Posted by: kackermann
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 16, 2007 3:33 AM
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Case at point: Intraspecto. The majority of voters have had it with his kind of Karl Rove rhetoric. They want answers, not asinine remarks.
As for Republican presidential candidates, not one has offered a way of ending the Iraq war and they never will because neoconservatives have a death grip on the GOP.
Like Intraspecto's vitriol, more and more citizens – religious and otherwise -- are rejecting the imperialist ideology of neocons and their hypocritical Christian “right” bedfellows.
Hugh E. Scott, editor of FreedomCentralUSA.com, an investigative website dedicated to the destruction of domestic fascism (neoconservatism) using truth and the Internet as WMDs.
I also edit King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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» RE: Intraspecto is an example of why Republicans will lose the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» So Dino, what's your excuse this time?
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: So Dino, what's your excuse this time?
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: So Dino, what's your excuse this time?
Posted by: Knowmad
» Excuse me?!?
Posted by: peaknik35
» Since Bush started the Iraq War, it's his responsibility to tell us how to end it, not the Dems.
Posted by: HughScott
» RE: Since Bush started the Iraq War, it's his responsibility to tell us how to end it, not the Dems.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Bin Laden is a distraction, DinoConservasaurus. Bush's insane war of choice is what counts.
Posted by: HughScott
» Gather round folks. Dino's doing comedy again.
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Gather round folks. Dino's doing comedy again.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Gather round folks. Dino's doing comedy again.
Posted by: Knowmad
» Don't sully America
Posted by: kackermann
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: Intraspecto
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: kackermann
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Don't sully America
Posted by: Knowmad
» RE: Intraspecto is an example of why Republicans will lose the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Intraspecto
» RE: Intraspecto is an example of why Republicans will lose the White House in 2008.
Posted by: Intraspecto
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Posted by: kepstein7777 on Apr 16, 2007 3:50 AM
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Remember, the Religious Righties are fanatics. When things don't go 100% their way, they don't just take up another hobby, or go have a beer.
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Posted by: shangrilalad on Apr 16, 2007 4:36 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gone are the days when Republicans and Conservatives call blacks, “niggers” in public, they have become more cunning to get their point across. Their words have changed, but their tune remains the same and it resonates all over the country.
Watch what happens to Obama.
Conservatives I know, don't call it Basketball. They call it Niggerball.
.
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» RE: acism is the Rabid Right’s Ace in the Hole
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Racism is universal, but conservatives fan the flames of hatred.
Posted by: shangrilalad
» RE: acism is universal, but conservatives fan the flames of hatred.
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» "The Mask of Sanity"
Posted by: shangrilalad
» RE: "The Mask of Sanity"
Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Welfare and "handsouts".
Posted by: kittynboi
» RE: Welfare queens
Posted by: MartianBachelor
» RE: Welfare queens
Posted by: kittynboi
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Posted by: wawa on Apr 16, 2007 5:02 AM
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But, there are MORE moderate and progressive Christians in the USA than the fundamentalist kind [Alternet doesn't publish articles about -or from them though]
We moderate and progressive Christians are NOT represented by the right and we are fed up-some of us are even flaming mad over the miss-use of God by politicians to get elected.
Here's an idea Alternet-why not investigate how many millions Hillary has taken from AIPAC.
AIPAC does NOT represent all USA Jews,
The religious right does NOT represent most USA Christians.
e
http://www.wearewideawake.org/
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» Well Said. Louder, Please!
Posted by: Sparks56
» STOP the name calling! Not all who are religious are on the right...
Posted by: Voicedude
» RE: STOP the name calling! Not all who are religious are on the right...
Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: STOP the name calling! Not all who are religious are on the right...
Posted by: Voicedude
» RE: it is OVER for the right
Posted by: Dboy
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Posted by: LeaderofMen on Apr 16, 2007 5:29 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the so-called religious right becomes a de-funded ideology it will continue to be a major influence on American politics.
Time magazine was unbelievably irresponsible to publish that article. The author manufactured evidence to support hollow arguments for his premise. A premise that has no basis in truth or reality.
Money is the way of American politics. MONEY. Get it? As long as fear-loving Christians fund warmongering, lying, unethical Christian politicians it will continue to be a force majeur in the US.
Anyone who is paying attention to this issue can see the EVIDENCE before us with regard to this: Mitt Romney is being funded for being anti-gay and a flip-flopper. This proves that unethical Christians are willing to pour tens of thousands of dollars into his unethical campaign. John McCain somehow reverses his thought processes and joins the religious right. Tens of thousands of dollars are poured into his campaign as well - by unethical fear-filled Christians who love his stance on war.
US politics is filled to the brim with Christians who hate evidence, who despise diversity, who love manufactured facts and reality, and who, at the drop of a hat, will turn a blind eye to all that is good and right in the world. And, they will empty their wallets to secure that as a continued established way of life for themselves and the children they bring up.
Oh no. The religious right is just regrouping.
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Posted by: reval on Apr 16, 2007 5:55 AM
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Remember Diderot's words: Mankind will never be free until the last king is strangled with the entrails of the last priest.
His words ring more true today than ever.
WVCSR
Rev. El Mundo
Encourage them to visit the congregation soon.
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» People - check out Reval's link above (WVCSR)
Posted by: Knowmad
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Posted by: xenacat on Apr 16, 2007 6:49 AM
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Posted by: AdamSelene40 on Apr 16, 2007 6:56 AM
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But like Rick Warren he has as just much to gain by way of peer approval and self esteem by moving centrist Democrats to the right and into the Evangelical camp as from persuading Evangelicals to give some lip service to environmental and social issues.
The point that Wallis misses is that his one book and web based "Sojourners " isn't remotely the media equal of Dobson's Focus on Family much less Fallwell's Christian Broadcasting Network -- and that Warren, though a nice enough fellow in many ways, will never actually do more than gently chide Dobson and Fallwell's more extreme positions -- he will never actually oppose them.
The important thing to remember is that that the Religious Right's leadership is far more political than faithful ... and far more self-serving than idealistic -- and their movement has survived it's ups and downs for over a hundred years. These are the direct descendents of the good folks who brought us the Drug Wars, the 1920 edition of the KKK, Alcohol Prohibition, and the Scopes Trial.
They are power brokers; their path to wealth and power doesn't depend on mustering majorities or achieving legislative victories on their key issues: abortion, gays, guns, evolution, and Harry Potter. All they need to keep the contributions flowing is to keep 'fighting the good fight' against the godless and the liberal. All they need to do to maintain their influencee in Washington is to be seen as reliably delivering a relatively small handfull of voters in key states in key races.
And frankly, I can't think of anything stupider than putting on our Munchkin hats and singing "Ding Dong the Witch is Dead" because Time Magazine wanted a snappy headline for a feature article one week.
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Posted by: LoveYourEnemies on Apr 16, 2007 7:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You will never get rid of the religious right. They may go underground and fester like a growth of deadly fungus for a while, but they will never go away. Why? They are motivated by hatred, fear, self-righteousness stemming from low self-esteem, lack of intellectual curiosity and intellectual honesty, a persecution complex, and plain ignorance. Again, I was one of them. I'm free now. I had to face the truth that all of us are equal and most of us are trying to make sense of this world and secure a safe place for our families. There are only a few who make us scared of those things that go bump in the night (terrorism, illegal immigration, "secular humanism", homosexuality).
Look at it this way. A Jehovah's Witness knocks on your door at 7 in the morning on a Saturday and wakes you up. You open the door and they try to shove one of their comic book magazines in your face. You are angry and basically kick them off your doorstep rudely. You think you've discouraged them? Not at all. Instead, you've motivated them more. Why? Because they have a persecution complex. They figure, "I've suffered for Jehovah." And they are motivated to do it again and again.
I've listened to Dobson's Focus of the Family. I've heard episodes where he comes back from the field of battle against the evil legions of liberal secular humanists (they actually said that mess once). He is actually GLEEFUL when people call him names and they celebrate it on air. "I took one for the Lord!!! Look at me, I'm a martyr!"
How do you stop them? I don't know. But, berating them isn't working. All you have to do is say, "Look, you've had the government for SIX YEARS. Six years!!!" They ranted about the "War on Christmas" during their heyday. You can't stop someone who has a persecution complex. They're just too angry.
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» RE: You can't shut down fanaticism
Posted by: reval
» re:
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: You can't shut down fanaticism
Posted by: morticia
» Not Education...But Being Clobbered on the Head...
Posted by: CatDad
» RE: You can't shut down fanaticism - Education is the key - and they know it too!!!
Posted by: UnEasyOne
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kenhymes on Apr 16, 2007 7:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THE RELIGIOUS IS RIGHT IN THE US IS UTTERLY, PERMENENTLY LOSING EVERY SIGNIFICANT BATTLE ON THEIR AGENDA. Only people who have no real contact with religious life could swallow these fear-mongering stories. The youth are abandoning right wing churches in droves. the growth and confidence are in small and medium sized churches with moderate to progressive social values. More significantly, most young christians are much more interested in non-Church expressions of faith: music, "emergent" church evenets without the trappings of traditional structures, and internet discussion and support groups.
The religious right peaked a while ago. The political pressure the national organizations are able to bring is the result of organizing and fund-raising that happened between ten and thirty years ago. Yes, there are a large number of right-wing fundamentalists. But their ability to influence events is waning quickly.
Further, this kind of talk from leftists is insulting to multiple constituencies, and pointlessly so. It insults Christians who are working to change the idea of what church is; it insults leftists who believe in God; it insults secularists who fought hard to win battles over gay rights and religion-free education, and WON!! More cruelly, it insults those who really live in theocracies, countries where women are beaten on the street, people are routinely murdered, for violating the majority's idea of purity. This is never going to happen here. We're much too mercantilist, hedonistic and individualistic.
I really don't see why the "Internet Left" is so focused on this issue. It's important that we continue to support gay teenagers, and young women in need of reproductive choice, these are the real victims of the right wing fundies. But the core issues of the left - economic justice and pluralism - are not only poorly served but actively undermined by sweeping, ill-informed assertions about religious life in America.
All the articles focus either on legal battles in a small town - did we expect there would be ZERO resistance to social change? - or on overblown shells of national organizations, quoting those groups' own claims of membership and influence as if they were fact, without any corroborating evidence of their impact. The Bush White House is the friendliest to these groups in the history of our country, and it is a political disaster, which has delivered very little for their agenda. Are you expecting that Americans will elect someone further to the right now? Get real. Enjoy and exploit progress, don't indulge in masturbatory horror fantasies about monstrous enemies, when they're actually rather sad little scared groups of people having trouble with change in the society.
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» RE: Article is wrong in every way.
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: Article is wrong in every way.
Posted by: Maryanne
» RE: Article is wrong in every way.
Posted by: Dboy
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Basenjis on Apr 16, 2007 8:29 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Newt
Posted by: charemor
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Posted by: reval on Apr 16, 2007 9:10 AM
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Rev. El
Pastor, WVCSR
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Posted by: babs on Apr 16, 2007 10:02 AM
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Ideological purity? ROFL
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» RE: did anyone else get a laugh from this one...
Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma
» RE: did anyone else get a laugh from this one... I loved it.
Posted by: symcokid
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Posted by: karma_ran_over_dogma on Apr 16, 2007 10:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yet another tedious article about fundy Xtians who are going nowhere. Part of the reason the right doesn't take us seriously is that we tend never to see ANY threat from Islam, which can become equally (at least!) as demented and hateful a religion as Christianity. Alternet likes to go for the easy targets.
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Posted by: willymack on Apr 16, 2007 10:27 AM
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Posted by: kittynboi on Apr 16, 2007 10:34 AM
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The late 80s and early 90s. So what did they do without viable candidates and Democrats int he white house?
What they will likely do this time; they don't retreeat from politics, but they do shift some of their focus and resources from the Federal level to the state and local level. Much of the 90s saw them focusing intently on infiltrating school boards, running stealth candidates, etc. They just move on to greener pastures if the federal government is temporarily unwelcoming to them.
I expect them to do this after 08, and maybe for the next few elections, because it will give them time to run and groom candidates they approve of, preparing them for a presidential run in 2012 or beyond.
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Posted by: Sojourner on Apr 16, 2007 11:35 AM
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Each generation must learn again the lessons from earlier generations. This generation is learning, by virtue of the clear visibility of its leadership, that those who claim to be holier-than-thou have clay feet. Holier-than-thou must contend with reality, and at the moment reality has begun to take a toll.
But the ingrained streak of punitive nativism that the religious right represents is as American as mom and apple pie. I wish Jim Wallis well and hope he's got his finger on the pulse. But it's too early to count our chickens.
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» RE: Yes, the religious right prospers on calls to duty. And remember, the courts are packed
Posted by: UnEasyOne
» And that's the truth.
Posted by: Sojourner
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Posted by: redbrownandblueparty on Apr 16, 2007 11:47 AM
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Posted by: Gitaiba on Apr 16, 2007 11:54 AM
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» RE: The GOP Is Fading Anyway
Posted by: Ellie1
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Posted by: xbj on Apr 16, 2007 12:43 PM
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And having nothing at all to do with Christ's life, His teachings, anything He said, His death, or REAL PACIFIST CHRISTIANITY.
The "Religious" "Right" was NEVER Christian, it was Christianist from its very inception, a political movement of power and based on establishing a fascist theocracy based on intolerance and endless war against all other religions, including Judaism. As Zionism had done earlier in the 20th century with Judaism, the "Religious" "Right" did with its own creation Christianism, and now that the entire movement has been exposed, as is also the case with Zionism, as anti-Christian and anti-Judaic, it will fall and fall hard.
Jesus is the Prince of Peace, not the Prince of Endless War Against Evildoers Who Want Us Destroyed and Wiped Off The Face Of The Earth. Lucifer is the god of war. And far too much religion, turning it into anti-religion.
And nothing any Christianist or Zionist or their "flipside", Islamicists are going to say is going to change that simple fact of what the Man did, what He said, what He taught, and how He lived and died and how and what He died for.
Peace. Love your enemy. Bless those that curse you.
The "religious" "right" has always been neither from its very inception, and now it's terminal as more truly caring and considerate and loving people wake up to the truth that they've been duped and lied to and USED.
Christ's sheep ARE being separated from Lucifer's goats, and one road is very wide while the other is very narrow.
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» RE: The "Religious" "Right" is over after exposing itself
Posted by: xbj
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Posted by: HughScott on Apr 16, 2007 12:55 PM
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Revenues have also fallen -- from a high of $26.5 million in 1996 to $1.3 million in 2004. The Coalition is now in debt because the IRS revoked its tax-exempt status for distributing "voter guides" which had a partisan bias.
The revocation cost the Coalition $300,000 in back taxes plus penalties. In an attempt to regain sound financial footing, the Coalition reorganized as the "Christian Coalition of America." However, churches that once embraced the CCA have disassociated themselves from it for fear of losing their own tax-exempt status.
Hugh E. Scott, editor of King-George.biz -- the only website with hardcopy proof of White House corruption.
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Posted by: Dboy on Apr 16, 2007 2:04 PM
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I live in Dallas Texas and I assure you that the christians here are getting bigger and dumber every day. We have what I consider the worst form of christian: the Alpha Consumer Christian. We have corporate churches with parking lots filled with Escalades and Hummers. Christians here in Dallas give money to their deity using chicken buckets for offering plates.
This is how I know God does not exist. If he did, then certainly Dallas would have been destroyed by a meteor by now. This place is a christian shit-hole.
Dboy
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Posted by: Dboy on Apr 16, 2007 2:06 PM
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I live in Dallas Texas and I assure you that the christians here are getting bigger and dumber every day. We have what I consider the worst form of christian: the Alpha Consumer Christian. We have corporate churches with parking lots filled with Escalades and Hummers. Christians here in Dallas give money to their deity using chicken buckets for offering plates.
This is how I know God does not exist. If he did, then certainly Dallas would have been destroyed by a meteor by now. This place is a christian shit-hole.
Dboy
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» RE: Time article is just an attempt to stir up the readership
Posted by: animalleaderisgreat
» RE: Time article is just an attempt...Have you guys read any polls?
Posted by: UnEasyOne
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Posted by: humanity101 on Apr 16, 2007 8:18 PM
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Posted by: siddesu on Apr 16, 2007 9:28 PM
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so, from that premise and what i see, i'd put forward the opinion that religious extremism in the US is hardly facing a risk of having no followers.
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Posted by: kackermann on Apr 17, 2007 7:13 PM
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By my score, it's something:
Normal, thinking people: 25,123
Religion and its sheep: 0
In what other profession could you be so spectacularly wrong and still be believed?
What the hell does that say about these people?
How about Foley wanting to smoke boys two at a time?
What about Taggart puffing pickles and while riding the snake?
At least he didn't steal scrap metal to get his drugs. He just stole from his flock of sheep. But he's cured now too. It only took a few weeks.
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» RE: But the end of the world is coming!!!
Posted by: xbj
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