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Rights and Liberties

The Theocratic Agenda Is Heading for a Statehouse Near You

By Rob Boston, Church and State. Posted March 10, 2007.


Well-coordinated "faith-based" initiatives and anti-evolution lobbying in state capitols from New Jersey to Colorado signal a stealth national strategy by Religious Right organizations.
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Utah seems like a strange state to experiment with voucher subsidies for religious and other private schools.

Politically and culturally, the Beehive State is dominated by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints (Mormons). Seventy percent of the state's residents belong to the church. Most Mormons are content to send their children to public schools, where they are often released during the school day for religious instruction offsite. There aren't even many private schools in Utah.

Yet last month, the Utah legislature fast-tracked a sweeping voucher bill. It whipped through the House and Senate and was quickly signed by Gov. John Huntsman Jr. The measure contains no income cap and would offer vouchers ranging from $500 to $3,000 to virtually every student in the state. Regulation is light: Participating schools would have to enroll at least 40 students, provide results of standardized tests and submit to an outside audit once every four years.

What happened? Voucher opponents say it all boils down to one acronym: ALEC.

The letters stand for American Legislative Exchange Council. This shadowy, but well-funded organization of libertarian-oriented business interests, put Utah under a full-court press.

The Salt Lake Tribune outlined ALEC's strategy recently: "Gather lawmakers in one place (with taxpayer subsidies), establish first-name relationships, then hand out 'model' legislation co-written by -- guess who? -- corporate America."

The newspaper quoted Alan Rosenthal, Rutgers University professor of public policy, who said, "From the point of view of the corporations, they have devised themselves an extremely effective organization." (The group's budget is $6 million annually.)

The Tribune noted that Utah Senate Majority Leader Curt Bramble (R-Provo) is the state chairman for ALEC and that he traveled, on the taxpayers' dime, to ALEC functions in Chicago, Texas, San Francisco and Washington in 2005 and 2006.

Utah isn't the only state that faces a high-stakes battle over vouchers this year. Similar battles are brewing in Georgia, Texas and other states. These bills are examples of a new wave of attacks on separation of church and state in state legislatures.

The assaults are by no means limited to efforts to aid religious education. Other bills focus on issues like religion in public schools, controversies related to marriage, the display of religious symbols by government and the teaching of "intelligent design" creationism in public schools.

The spate of new state-based attacks on church-state separation is a stark reminder that the fight to maintain the wall of separation between church and state never ends. The outlook in Congress might be brighter in light of recent political changes, but many states remain roiling cauldrons of controversy.

"The states are always wildcards," said Rachel Joseph Marah, who has been monitoring legislative activity all over the country for Americans United. "Bills can pop up and begin moving with little notice. We always have to be on guard."

A recent survey by Americans United found bills threatening the separation of church and state pending in a number of states. A round-up follows:

Vouchers and tuition tax credits

Voucher advocates in Georgia are so desperate to pass a plan giving tax aid to religious and other private schools that they hope to sneak one in through the back door by exploiting a vulnerable population: students with special needs.

The measure, Senate Bill 10, also known as the Georgia Special Needs Scholarship Act, would allocate state money to students with disabilities, encouraging them to transfer to private schools.

When the measure was unveiled in January, Holli Cash, a member of the Cobb County School Board, was unimpressed.

Cash, whose daughter has Down's Syndrome, saw through the ruse immediately. By establishing vouchers for a sympathetic population, advocates could then expand the plan to encompass others.

"I think it's just another way to get vouchers for the chosen few," Cash told the Marietta Daily Journal. "It's just another voucher bill."

Cash noted that most private schools in the Atlanta area require testing for admission, and most aren't interested in taking on special-needs students.

Other opponents pointed out that some private schools offer therapies for special-needs students that are unproven and that these institutions tend to be lightly regulated.

The scheme may seem especially callous. Most parents of children with special needs are eager, after all, to get them the best education possible. Playing on these parents' concerns to gain a foothold for vouchers underscores the extreme measures voucher advocates are willing to employ.

Church-state separation advocates there say the fight in Georgia could have major implications. Voucher advocates, they fear, plan to use the special-education bill to force a test case in the state courts in an effort to drum up support for watering down the strict church-state separation language in the Georgia Constitution.

Efforts to overturn the language outright have failed in recent years, and voucher boosters may believe that a manufactured controversy over tax aid to religious schools in the courts will swing public opinion their way.

A similar strategy is unfolding in at least one other state -- Texas. Lawmakers there are pitching vouchers as a way to help students with autism and other special needs.

In addition, San Antonio businessman James Leininger is pressing the legislature to pass a law mandating that Texas take over a privately funded voucher program that he has run for the past 10 years.

Thanks to Leininger's persistence, voucher bills are a constant feature of the Texas legislature. He spent $50 million during the 2006 election cycle to aid pro-voucher candidates. Last month, Leininger and his backers arranged for thousands of parochial school students to descend on the capitol in Austin to turn up the heat on lawmakers.

The Austin American-Statesman described Leininger recently as "a quiet political force in recent years, shying away from public comment while giving pro-voucher candidates millions."

Aside from Georgia and Texas, at least a dozen states are considering bills that would establish voucher plans or offer tuition tax credits. They include Arizona. The state already has a voucher plan aimed at special-education students and students in foster care. The Arizona Capital Times reported in January that legislators are expected to push for an expansion of the program this year.

In South Carolina, a bill allocating vouchers for special-education students is pending. Late last year, a lame-duck session of the Ohio legislature passed a law expanding the state's voucher program by increasing the number of schools deemed academically struggling from 99 to 212. The new governor, Ted Strickland, is no fan of vouchers, meaning that the issue could resurface.

Based on bills introduced in previous years and measures that were pre-filed, staff members at Americans United expect to see bills offering tuition tax credits or deductions to private school patrons in Connecticut, Hawaii, Kentucky, Missouri, Mississippi, New Jersey, New York and Virginia. A bill that would subsidize private-school transportation costs is pending in California.

Some of these bills may be based on model legislation offered by ALEC. The corporate-run lobby sees states as a laboratory for its radical form of privatization of public services. (ALEC is so extreme it opposes the federal government's efforts to crack down on drunk driving by imposing a uniform blood-alcohol level on the states.) ALEC is offering model tuition tax credit legislation and voucher legislation aimed at children in foster care, based on the Arizona model.

The group's executive director, Lori Roman, is no stranger to church-state controversy. She formerly served as chief of staff at the faith-based office at the U.S. Department of Education. Previously, she oversaw school-choice programs for the department.

Faith-Based Initiatives

Several states are expected to see battles over expanding so-called "faith-based" initiatives or formalizing such offices.

A major fight is expected in Texas, where bills that would greatly expand the faith-based concept have been introduced in both the House and the Senate. The Senate version of the bill, S.B. 200, would expand the role of faith-based groups in programs relating to drug and alcohol abuse, marriage-enrichment programs and community revitalization.

Ohio governor Strickland has signaled an interest in restructuring faith-based efforts in that state. A report from Strickland's transition team has recommended that taxpayer-funded faith-based groups shift their focus from marriage-enrichment programs and efforts aimed at prisoners re-entering society to addressing poverty and children and families in the state. Some social conservatives are concerned about the move, the Cleveland Plain Dealer reported.

Creationism/attacks on evolution

The National Center for Science Education in California expects to see several attacks on evolution in the states this year. Two states got out of the box early. In New Mexico, Republican state Rep. W.C. "Dub" Williams introduced a resolution saying public-school teachers should have "the right and freedom to objectively inform students of any scientific information that is relevant to both strengths and weaknesses" of evolution and protect teachers from reassignment for doing so, reported the Albuquerque Journal.

Williams' strategy is in line with the thinking of "intelligent design" proponents these days: Rather than promote creationism head on, they push laws designed to undercut evolution by making it appear that the theory is not sound scientifically.

The bill was tabled in the House on a 7-4 vote but a version remains alive in the New Mexico Senate.

A Mississippi bill that would have required public schools to teach creationism alongside evolution appears to be dead. House Bill 625 was introduced by state Rep. Mike Lott, a Republican, but was rejected by a House committee on Jan. 30. Public sympathy for creationism runs high in Mississippi, but legislators were probably aware that the Lott measure would run afoul of the 1987 Supreme Court ruling in Edwards v. Aguillard, which struck down a similar "balanced treatment" law in Louisiana.

In an effort to be proactive, some Montana legislators have put forth a resolution criticizing intelligent design, but the measure is not expected to pass.

Glenn Branch, deputy director of the National Center for Science Education, said he expects to see more proposed legislation attacking the teaching of evolution as the legislative year pushes forward.

"We would not be surprised to see anti-evolution legislation introduced in Alabama, Arkansas, Missouri, Oklahoma and possibly Utah," Branch said. He added that in some states, notably Colorado and Utah, attacks on evolution are buried in larger measures that purport to protect academic freedom or freedom of religion.

Other church-state issues

At least two states are facing attempts to pass laws approving certain types of government-supported religion.

State Sen. Chris Buttars of Utah wants to pass a state law that he says will expand religious liberty. Critics say it will open a can of worms. S.B. 1171 would ostensibly prevent government from interfering with the free exercise of religion. Opponents say the measure is unnecessary because those rights are already protected by the U.S. and Utah constitutions. They believe Buttars, a longtime proponent of Religious Right causes, is trying to find ways to increase governmental involvement with religion under the guise of religious free exercise.

Buttars' bill passed the Senate Government Operations Committee in January.

Among the most galling measures is a proposed state constitutional amendment in Virginia. HJ 724, introduced by Del. Charles W. Carrico Sr., would amend the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom, authored by Thomas Jefferson, to permit government-sanctioned prayer and the recognition of "religious beliefs, heritage, and traditions on public property, including public schools." (The language is lifted from a proposed federal constitutional amendment offered by former U.S. Rep. Ernest Istook of Oklahoma.)

In Kentucky, lawmakers will consider HR 4, a resolution that calls on Congress to pass a bill designed to make it harder for people to bring church-state lawsuits into the federal courts.

A similar but even more extreme measure is pending in Arizona. Sen. Karen Johnson, a Republican from Mesa, is sponsoring a bill that would bar state courts from being able to intervene in any cases that challenge "the acknowledgement of God as the sovereign source of law, liberty or government."

The bill, SCR 1026, is of dubious constitutionality. Nevertheless, Johnson insists she is serious. She told the Arizona Daily Star, "But we're supposed to have religion in everything -- the opportunity to have religion in everything. I want religion in government, I want my government to have a faith-based perspective."

Another strange bill has surfaced in New Hampshire. State Rep. Daniel Itse has introduced a bill that opponents charge would essentially ban clergy from performing same-sex commitment ceremonies.

Itse, who also backs a state constitutional amendment banning same-sex marriage, denied that is his intent. But opponents of the measure say they're flummoxed. Same-sex marriage is not legal in New Hampshire, although some clergy perform ceremonies for couples that are recognized only by those religious groups.

"I think it's meant to quash clergy who are talking about officiating at what they would define as a marriage and not caring whether or not the couple had a valid marriage license," Rabbi Richard Klein of Temple Beth Jacob in Concord told the Associated Press.

• • •

This preliminary list is by no means complete. As the year goes forward, Americans United expects to see more dangerous bills introduced in the state legislatures. Those that are not defeated may lead to litigation. Utah's voucher bill, for example, would seem a good candidate for court action. Two provisions of the Utah Constitution explicitly forbid diverting public funds for religious purposes. Several Religious Right groups, such as state affiliates of Focus on the Family, livid over last November's election results and the change of leadership in the House and Senate, are putting renewed emphasis on state legislatures.

In a recent message to supporters, Tom Minnery, senior vice president of James Dobson's Focus on the Family Action, cited the organization's work opposing stem-cell research in Missouri and legal abortion in South Dakota, both of which appeared on ballot referenda in November.

Although the outcomes were not favorable to the Religious Right, Minnery said he was cheered by the close votes and activism of the conservative Christian community. He vowed to continue the group's work in the states.

"The heart of it all is an informed electorate," wrote Minnery. "If church people understand the issues, and become motivated to act on what they know, they will turn this country around. The incredible swing in those Missouri polls and the stouthearted stand for life in South Dakota convince me of that. Yes, our side lost on both of these ballot measures, but, to paraphrase Winston Churchill, this was not the end, nor was it the beginning of the end; it was, rather, the end of the beginning. We will prevail eventually."

That vow, say staff members at Americans United, underscores that the Religious Right, despite political setbacks, never gives up. It's a reminder of why we shouldn't as well.

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Where does it say there must be a separation of church and state ?
Posted by: EagleMB on Mar 10, 2007 1:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article speaks of seperation of church and state as if there is a law requiring it. Can someone please tell me where such a law exists?

Furthermore, America's schools rank among the worst of any developed nation. Allowing vouchers to force accountability can only improve education in America. Your poor performing school will quickly fnd ways to educate kids if they no longer have a monopoly on the market.

Perhaps if you get rid of your conspiracy theories and start addressing the actual problems in America, we could see improvements (like a quality education).

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» Judicial Precedent Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Judicial Precedent Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Judicial Precedent Posted by: EagleMB
» No doubt... Posted by: mjabele
» RE: No doubt... Posted by: RayK
» RE: No doubt... Posted by: eric555
» RE: No doubt... Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: No doubt... Posted by: fuzzwald
» Misuse of the word THEORY Posted by: indradawn
» RE: Misuse of the word THEORY Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Misuse of the word THEORY Posted by: LeaderofMen
» origin of species Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: origin of species Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: origin of species Posted by: mjabele
» a thought for consideration Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: No doubt... Posted by: hms2004
» Deciding for Yourself Posted by: LeaderofMen
» Are you for real? Posted by: mazel
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: crashgrab
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: Are you for real? Posted by: crashgrab
» Pledge of Allegiance? Posted by: RON_KING
» RE: "Under God" Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: "Under God" Posted by: duendeazul
» RE: "Under God" Posted by: hms2004
» RE: "Under God" Posted by: Neverwinter
» RE: "Under God" Posted by: sanddauber
» Lets get this straight Posted by: citizenjoe
» Sam, let me help you out Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Sam, let me help you out Posted by: EagleMB
» This thread is fantabulous! Posted by: doctorsquared
Here in Lansing, Mi...
Posted by: adp3d on Mar 10, 2007 4:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...our Democratic Mayor has instituted an Office for Faith Based Initiative.

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Mixing politics with religion is DANGEROUS as it is.
Posted by: Jason Jordan on Mar 10, 2007 5:20 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But then again, I guess the rightwing lunatics are hell bent on making strange bedfellows with Muslim extremists in the Arab world.

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the idiots will get what they deserve
Posted by: karyse on Mar 10, 2007 5:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It may be time to let them do it. By and large religious people are unable to imagine that it might be THEIR particular faith that receives the brunt of the fallout. They wear blinders and believe that somehow everyone else who calls themselves christian is the same as they are. Hah!

Personally, I would be laughing heartily at the Episcopalian who complains that the DMV in their area is Methodist and puts pressure on him/her to convert, or the Bapist who gripes that the tax office makes it difficult for him/her to straighten out an issue because that office only hires/helps Catholics, or the Lutheran who finds it impossible to get a marriage license because everyone in the courthouse is a Jehovah's Witness, or when the divorce papers of a Quaker got lost because the county clerk is a Pentecostal.

Oh, yeah, and all of those are Christian, I will be laughing most when the government employess of one city are all Muslim, in another all Jewish, and in still another, all Hindu. It's not that it might happen, it absolutely will happen. At that time the U.S. will become everything those that left Europe despised.

Wake up religious idiots. Me, I have no mandate from an imaginary god, to give a you-know-what about your particular beliefs, and currently, city, county, state, and federal employees are forbidden to even ask about your religion. If you don't cease and desist in your efforts the time will come when you get the question, "Do you believe that speaking in tongues is possible?" or, "Is your faith so strong that this here rattle snake cannot kill you?" Or you might be living in a county that no longer provides vaccinations to your children because god doesn't permit it. Or you might be living in a city where it is impossible to get a blood transfusion because it is an abomination and god forbids it.

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» Is that all?? Posted by: mirimac
» RE: Is that all?? Posted by: hms2004
Keep Public Schools Public
Posted by: Urstrly on Mar 10, 2007 5:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Whether intentional or not (and this seems to be intentional) the effect of charter schools is to provide special education for a few while sucking funds from our public education system. This administration has admitted it does not even see a high school education as the birthright of our children, so it sees no problem in syphoning off money for religious or socially elite populations. Those at the bottom get what's left, and that's not much. I sure hope we can find a Democratic candidate who understands that public education for every child should be of top quality and not set aside for those with political clout. By singling out children from right wing families for home schooling and special schools, we are allowing the development of a class of people who deny modern science. I say not a penny of public money should be spent fostering willful ignorance.

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» RE: Keep Public Schools Public Posted by: dangerouslysane
» Very nice post. Thank you. Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Very nice post. Thank you. Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: Very nice post. Thank you. Posted by: HeroesAll
Bring Church and State Together
Posted by: Darrell Kern on Mar 10, 2007 6:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Government and Religion are the two consistent factors in historic, present and probably future socities that are the cause of all war and misery and the eternal spread of hatred. Both of these egredious groups commit the most vile offenses human beings are capapble of- supposedly sanctioned by God himself.

We might as well bring them together. Tax the churches- why should they get more of a free ride than anyone else? Besides the Church is far more effective at murder than governments. I would think that government would embrace the church and learn how to kill effectively. Also the church kills the souls of the innocent and they promise even greater suffering after death (so humans can be tortured for all eternity). Muslim promise free and unblemished pussy in the afterlife (at least they get something positive for their cruel sinning).

It is all so stupid and completely insane. All someone has to do is step back, bravely take off the rose colored glasses to see that it is all completely insane.

I say bring church and state together and let them finally kill each other off. This would be better than them using us as a battleground for their arguments and conflict of interests. Isn't it funny how we keep dying and they just keep getting richer and more powerful. Whats worse is they even do it their own via a vow of poverty (which is utter horseshit).

Church and State are both abominations of humanity, and like typical predators they project their bullshit on their victims so they don't have to be accountable and/or responsible for their actions.

I say put all the world leaders and church leaders in a room and gas their asses for a change. Lets see how they like it.

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» Ditto Posted by: LeaderofMen
Afraid of a little competition?
Posted by: dikaiosyne on Mar 10, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Seems to me that the majority of the folk that inhabit this forum are concerned about a little competition to the public indoctrination centers known as Public Schools. Certainly the creation of voucher programs would force public schools to really start educating children or they lose money. The Teacher's Unions must be breaking a sweat that they might just have to show some results. Perhaps graduate a few students that can read the names on the diplomas or maybe fill out a job form. Not wishing to shake your universe but Georgia has passed a bill that would allow schools to teach the Bible as literature. Certainly this is good news because they now have something to counter the canard of Darwinism which is taught as a religion in the public indoctrination centers. Seems there are more chinks made in the armor of the public education with each passing month. Maybe these kids exposed to biblical principles (err literature) will learn a better morality from the exposure. This can't be good news for you hedonists and other haters of children. Imagine a society of young people that accept absolute moral principles and can read write and do math. It is not conceivable to the lefty morally bankrupt crowd. The panic must be welling up in your throats that this society is going back to what works and what makes societies great. Once again principled well educated masses may become the norm. Time will tell.

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» I applaud your ideals! Posted by: freedomhawk
» What beam? Posted by: freedomhawk
» the love Posted by: freedomhawk
» Matthew 7:5 Posted by: freedomhawk
» 13 inches Posted by: freedomhawk
» Missing the forest for the trees Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: 13 inches Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
» RE: 13 inches Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» RE: 13 inches Posted by: edraven
» the mistakes we make Posted by: freedomhawk
» love vs hatred Posted by: freedomhawk
» Do You Live A Life Of Poverty? Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: the mistakes we make Posted by: Astroboy
» RE: the mistakes we make Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: the mistakes we make Posted by: mazel
» proving your claims Posted by: freedomhawk
» Excellent, Astroboy! Posted by: mazel
» School Vouchers = Bad Idea Posted by: CatDad
» RE: School Vouchers = Bad Idea Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: School Vouchers = Bad Idea Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: School Vouchers = Bad Idea Posted by: longlivecheney
» RE: School Vouchers = Bad Idea Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: School Vouchers = Bad Idea Posted by: longlivecheney
» cells Posted by: Mal'ak
» RE: leafsong1 Posted by: Mal'ak
» RE: leafsong1 Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: leafsong1 Posted by: Mal'ak
» RE: leafsong1 Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: leafsong1 Posted by: Mal'ak
» You're dreaming. Posted by: WhatNow?
» So you live in Georgia Posted by: Ellie1
» Read the Bible and Weep Posted by: LeaderofMen
» The rest of the story... Posted by: Mal'ak
hartsmartliving
Posted by: hartsmart on Mar 10, 2007 6:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Creationism? One would expect the creator having some past experience, or training, No? Whoever claims homo sapience as its prime achievement must be disqualified. Check the evidence!

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welcome to our collective nightmare
Posted by: robmikejas on Mar 10, 2007 8:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The creeping theocracy that is America will leave us all in a state of ignorance and fear. Wakeup you selfrighteous tight ass right wing blowhards and smell the inquistion!! You and your faith based bullshit are ruining the most progressive intelligent and creative society ever to inhabit this earth. In the end, you will be the victims of your own pious self delusion. Take religion out of the realm of public discourse. Worship your God in the privacy of your own home and stay the hell out of mine!!

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» Please, check your facts. Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: Please, check your facts. Posted by: indradawn
Welcome to the fascist state
Posted by: citizenjoe on Mar 10, 2007 8:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The establishment of a state religion is forbidden by our constitution. However, the aid and support of various religions is not forbidden. That is different from establishing religion. Just so you folks will get the idea of what is actually happening under Bush, let me refresh your memories about the relations between religions and fascist states (Germany and Italy) in Europe. The fascists in various ways, not always very happily, supported religions in their societies. Religion is seen by fascists as part of their countries national traditions. The fascists supported churches that would support the fascists in return. That is called politics. Bush does the same. For this combined with many other reasons (esp., pursuit of world domination) the Bush regime is properly called fascist. Wake up and smell the burning flesh!

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» Once it's out, it's free Posted by: eddie torres
As long as the $ goes to JEEEEZUSSS
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Mar 10, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As long as the $ goes to JEEEEZUSSS, these backers of government sponsered faith based programs will be all hallelujahs. But wait until they realize their tax dollars may also someday be going to faith based muslim, jewish, or buddhist groups.....

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What a strange mélange!
Posted by: SayBlade on Mar 10, 2007 10:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sports should be taught in schools instead of poetry because poetry is wrong? Perhaps auto mechanics should be taught instead of sculpture, because sculpture is wrong?

AUGH!

Theology and science are two areas of study. Thou shalt not ditch the one and call it the other!

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Bush's Supremes are not likely to limit private religious schools.
Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 10, 2007 10:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we are in for a long struggle.

Somewhere down the road, because the evidence is incontrovertible, fundamentalist religion's creator God will have to settle for evolution. What we see going on now is a frantic and panic-stricken flailing against teaching evolution. It will settle into a compromise. After all, what would rightwing churches be without some enemy, without a Satan to battle?

However, the election of the Shrub will extend the life of the protests against the Bill of Rights. We now have a Supreme Court that looks for excuses not reasons, as is always the case with the self-righteous.

At the same time, who needs to read about bills introduced in state legislatures that get killed at that level? It's the ones that are passed or that have substantial support that matter. The writer of this article wastes our time with pickyune instances of state legislator nutcases.

Lawmakers will propose any imaginable law that costs taxpayer dollars, because they get to allocate those dollars. Just look at the futile and so-called war on drugs. It's the biggest boondoggle in American history. As long as voters elect candidates who boast they will be tough on drugs or tough on crime or tough on whatever, we can count on a rough and tough ride.

"Freedom, they say, is a constant struggle." Sometimes you gotta just hang on.

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» Dear Jeremiah, the Bullfrog, Posted by: Sojourner
vouvhers are just a cover for corporate raiding of public school tax dollars
Posted by: scott.gregory on Mar 10, 2007 10:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's where the money comes for these crazy ideas...the religious right may support them, but the corporations are putting them in place. And only because they want to "crack-open" the coffers of state public school property tax revenues, to siphon off as profit for the already rich. Always remember...
First rule of American politics: If it doesn't make the rich richer, it doesn't happen.
Corollary to the First Rule: If it makes the rich richer, it happens regardless of the consequences for the rest of society.

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RE: about XML
Posted by: SayBlade on Mar 10, 2007 10:37 AM   
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Methinks you are in the wrong forum. Use the Google!

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» RE: about XML Posted by: YogiBear
People need to stop pushing the idea of private schools being better than public
Posted by: Callibrarian on Mar 10, 2007 10:38 AM   
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Private schools don't offer lots of things public schools are required to. Many do not accept mentally handicapped students or behavior problems, students who can't pass tests (the Catholic High School Entrance Exam), children whose parents they don't like (remember the stripper whose 5 year old was kicked out?) or anyone "beneath" them. They get the cream of the crop, then act like high test scores had something to do with their teaching. That's crap, which a study not too long ago proved when it showed that, holding for factors such as race and income, public schools do better, probably because they have standards for teachers. A friend of mine went straight to teaching at a private school WITH NO EXAMS NECESSARY. My teen shelver complains about one of her private school teachers who knows nothing and didn't pass any teaching exams. Don't believe me? Look on private school job boards. Do you believe that Jesus Christ is your savior AND have a pulse? You're hired. They cannot attract great teachers because the highest salary most pay is about $30,000 and a spot in heaven.

Many are afraid of attacking voucher programs because the sponsors say, "You can't attack my belief because it's my belief, blah, blah, blah." Fine. You can believe that the world was a great place until Pandorra opened a box, but you cannot claim it's true. Instead of getting stuck in the my-religion-1st-amendement battle, let's talk about facts and standards. When these groups get up at meetings and discuss why our kids need vouchers to get them out of those vile public schools with lesbian witchcraft clubs and weekly goat sacrifices (they ran out of virgins), let's ask to see the science books they're teaching out of. Let's see their test scores compared to other schools when holding for factors such as family income. Let's see what percentage of minorities attend the school compared to area schools. Do you know the crap some of these schools are feeding children? We almost fell on the floor when we came across a book that asked, "Why did God create diseases such as AIDS to punish bad people yet it infects the innocent, too?" There was the book of Bible based science projects, others said earth is 6000 years old, that condoms don't work, the earth is the center of the solar system, that women are genetically designed to stay at home. So the next time someone comes in talking about great private schools, ask them for a copy of all the teachers' college degrees and certificates, proof they meet continuing eduction standards (150 hours every 5 years), and all the books they use. If they haven't taken another class since 1951 and their books say women do not get pregnant from rape, our case is won.

By the way---the case that officially set up the wall between church and state is Everson v. Board of Education

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» Amen, Amen, Amen Posted by: mirimac
» RE: Amen, Amen, Amen : Posted by: Basenjis
» Excellent comment Posted by: HeroesAll
Public schools...
Posted by: Pirate1 on Mar 10, 2007 11:29 AM   
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were set up during a far more generous time in our nation where the education of the citizenry was deemed important.
After the highly educated youth of the sixties and seventies emerged and began questioning the direction of the country in light of Vietnam and the then ongoing Sword of Damocles nightmare of the cold war, those of you who still have memories will recall there was a BIG push for BACK TO BASICS... remember? That tower of intellect Reagan championed it, Nixon listed it as a dire problem... so they quietly got everyone all worked up about Japanese students being better in math than our kids on average... their solution was pretty much the elimination of all humanities and a focus on the 3 Rs... This immediately made school a less stimulating environment and turned out a far more malleable, far less politically astute adult at the end of the process than the system that had gone before... That isn't the only one but is a big reason why you don't have the throngs of people in the streets today that you did then. They don't get opposing ideas pitched at them, critical thinking is almost unheard of... People in power have known for eons that a population educated just enough to desire no more from life than to be a worker are far more easily manipulated into doing the will of the crown, the state, the country, "freedom"... and so it goes with our leaders who would have us all fighting a perpetual war against terror which at it's root is almost always some group somewhere trying to get out from under the oppressive sway of imperialism in the form of crushing national debt, foriegn aid that benefits mainly the top tier of the ruling class, or the presence of troops in the land of people to whom such a presence violates their sense of the sacred... all things that they see as held in place by American global policy.
I don't think we'll ever get back to anything like what we had again. There isn't time. The coming climate of the planet will change our daily realities in ways unimaginable now. We are going to see perhaps billions perish from storm, plague and starvation and thirst... what humanity survives will be at the planet's only remaining temperate zones... the planet's poles.

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Truthful Extreme Sarcasm Teachings or TEST
Posted by: Darrell Kern on Mar 10, 2007 11:41 AM   
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The education system yields less usable knowledge than people are willing to admit. It is a system designed to kill immagination and free speech. It teaches children to think inside the box and become an automotan. It is also designed to weed the wheat from the chaff. This creates isolation and separation and its redudancy is appalingly apprarent. It is a form of slavery building that I am grateful to not be a part of.

An uneducated or poorly educated person has a much clearer picture of what's really going on in the world because we have not fallen for the bullshit. We have not been taught how to think and how to see reality in the same way an educated person does.

I for one see the internet as an opportunity to put this evil system down for good. Kids who surf the internet and discover the truth- begin to see the holes and uselessness of education. William Shakespeare had one of the most brilliant minds in human history and he managed to write with nothing but a second grade education. Many greats share the same gifts.

What is sad is seeing parents dump their kids in school thinking they are sending them out to actually learn something that will help to ensure their success and integration into society without realising they have been brainwashed to believe it. Its is a methodically, maniacal, covert bullshit machine that trains people to see the world they way they want you to see it- so they can continue to destroy it. And now its running on its own accord because its original creators have long since joined their peers in hell (I hope..I really do. I doubt hell exists in the afterlife- but if it does thats where they will be).

Give your child some building blocks or Legos and watch them create the most amazing things- they can even tell you what they made and what it does the awe and wonder in their eyes and the sparkle is a compelling reason to believe that God may actually exist. Now, put your child in school for a few years then give him the building blocks or Legos again, then just watch as the creation (if any) is limited, they cannot tell you what it does and nor are they interested or fascinated. The sparkle in their eyes is now dimmer. The awe and wonder is almost gone.

Now take your child to church and watch all the wonder and awe leave their eyes and expressions as they find out that they are flawed sinners and introduce them to a standard of living with a bar set so high that only one living human has ever achieved it, remember to the child that he/she will never reach that bar because that would be blasphemous to become like Jesus. Oh, and be sure to give them a copy of a the book (Insert Bible and Version here) that constantly contradicts itself and babbling incoherancies. It would be helpful to point out right away that Jews are always and forever to suffer. Be sure to point who is better than who and why. There are many references and proof why gentiles (white people) are the best of the bunch. Then be sure to point out why you should never be aroused by the same sex. Educate your little biggot so he/she can become an adult biggot and this will ensure his/her financial success in the world. And tell your kids in plain simple easy to understand ways that the Bible and God himself has said it is perfectly okay to fuck-over and even kill certain people (join military branch-INSERT here) and become a hero for it.

Now if your kid questions any of your teachings and the institutions you have chosen for he/she to attend, and they begin to rebel and/or get angry. Fear not, for the institution that you have chosen will safely and humanly medicate them until the mind control can set in.

When your kid grows up and hates your guts- you can be a proud parent because he/she is now exactly what you taught them to be.

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idahojim
Posted by: god on Mar 10, 2007 12:42 PM   
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I well fight the commy christian right until the day I die.and I know god loves me so I will live a long time.

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crazy christians and wacky catholics
Posted by: particle61 on Mar 10, 2007 12:49 PM   
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redstateupdate covers braying born agains and political preachers, see stories-
-Militant Ministers Concoct Combat Christ to Tempt Teenagers
-NJ Students Attend Histrionics Lesson
-Born Again Principal Claims 'God Was Never Mentioned'
-'Strategic Jesus' Always Wears Body Armor While Healing the Afflicted
-Christians Offer Condemnation to Hurricane Victims and Threats to Others
at the 'fun d' mental archive-
http://www.redstateupdate.net/fun-d-mental/fundmental.html

www.redstateupdate.net
funny, frightening, free
and 'it's all true'

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TAX THE CHURCHES. . .
Posted by: indradawn on Mar 10, 2007 12:51 PM   
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. . .and then see who screams for separation of church and state.

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» AMEN! Brother (or Sister) and Posted by: electricmonk
» RE: TAX THE CHURCHES. . . Posted by: patvic1405
Ooooh! Them SCARY FUNDIES is gonna getcha!
Posted by: emmanuel_goldstein_fights_fake_lefties on Mar 10, 2007 1:06 PM   
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Note that this is just another FakeLeft propaganda piece that works in conjunction, symbiotically, with mirror propaganda from the Right, in order to divide the populace along race and gender and religion lines, all the better to keep the upper class on top.

Red State vs Blue State, college vs bue collar, agnostic vs religious, old vs young, the FakeLeft and the rightwing just keep using scare tactics to keep these sides worked up and set against each other.

But notice how rarely economics and class come into play in the scare propaganda of the fakeLeft and RIghtwing.

THat is because they try to use diversionary issues like religion to distract from economics and class issues. And you guys just keep falling for it...

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» RE: Ooooh! Them SCARY FUNDIES is gonna getcha! Posted by: emmanuel_goldstein_fights_fake_lefties
Tax the churches???
Posted by: SayBlade on Mar 10, 2007 1:36 PM   
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indradawn posts that the churches should be taxed. That means that anyone who is part of a faith group gets taxed twice since the churches, mosques, etc., operate largely on the givings of its members. The problem arises when there are many churches, mosques, etc., who are doing valuable charitable work in keeping poor and disadvantaged folk from falling through the cracks. These people are disadvantaged because society has lost its ability to create infrastructure to help prevent these things through its government.

Of course another problem arises that some faith groups or individual churches only offer help the basis of whether you "belong" or not or force people to listen to some one-sided message before help is given. That is completely wrong.

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» How are they taxed twice? Posted by: Callibrarian
» Exactly my point. . . Posted by: indradawn
» RE: How are they taxed twice? Posted by: SayBlade
» RE: How are they taxed twice? Posted by: Callibrarian
» RE: How are they taxed twice? Posted by: SayBlade
» I was being facetious. . . Posted by: indradawn
» RE: I was being facetious. . . Posted by: indradawn
The Separation Clause
Posted by: edgar_michel on Mar 10, 2007 2:00 PM   
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I have excerpted a few articles from at "The Constitutional Principle: Separation of Church and State" below. Click on the title to go to the site for more information.

Article VI, Section III

" but no religious test shall ever be required as a qualification to any office or public trust under the United States."

OCTOBER 9, 1780

I am fully of your opinion respecting religious tests; but, though the people of Massachusetts have not in their new constitution kept quite clear of them, yet, if we consider what that people were one hundred years ago, we must allow they have gone great lengths in liberality of sentiment on religious subjects; and we may hope for greater degrees of perfection, when their constitution, some years hence, shall be revised. If Christian preachers had continued to teach as Christ and his Apostles did, without salaries, and as the Quakers now do, I imagine tests would never have existed; for I think they were invented, not so much to secure religion itself, as the emoluments of it. When a religion is good, I conceive that it will support itself; and, when it cannot support itself, and God does not take care to support it, so that its professors are obliged to call for the help of the civil power, it is a sign, I apprehend, of its being a bad one. . . .

Source of Information:

Excerpt of letter written by Benjamin Franklin to Dr. Richard Price, October 9, 1780. Works of Benjamin Franklin (Sparks ed.), VIII 505-506, in Bigelow ed, VII, 139, 140. Church and State in the United States, Volume I , Anson Phelps Stokes, D.D., LL.D., Harper & Brothers (1950) pp 298.

Not that there weren't voices in the states opposing religious tests. The Catholic John Carroll of Maryland noted acerbically in 1787 that even as many state constitutions had been drafted in 1776 reserving public office to Protestants, "the American army swarmed with Roman Catholic soldiers." People of all faiths fought in the Revolution, he noted, assuming that they would not be "shackled by religious tests" and would be "entitled to a participation in the common blessings which crowned their efforts" once they returned to their states. Jews in Pennsylvania petitioned the state government in 1783 and 1787 to remove the requirement that officeholders be Protestants and believers in the New Testament, since it "deprives the Jews of the most eminent right of freemen." In Gorham, Massachusetts (now Maine), the inhabitants instructed their delegates to the Massachusetts constitutional convention of 1779 "that no restriction be required of any officer or ruler but merit, viz. a sufficient knowledge and understanding in matters relative to the office, and fidelity and firmness in the cause of liberty. " The Gorham delegates were unsuccessful in Boston.

As correctly pointed out by Justice Joseph Story in his Commentaries (see below) that clause broke any union between church and state (it separated church and state).

Section 1841. The remaining part of the clause declares, that "no religious test shall ever be required, as a" qualification to any office or public trust, under the "United States." ...The Catholic and the Protestant had alternately waged the most ferocious and unrelenting warfare on each other; and Protestantism itself, at the very moment, that it was proclaiming the right of private judgment, prescribed boundaries to that right, beyond which if any one dared to pass, he must seal his rashness with the blood of martyrdom...

Remember the pain of Europe in the 15 and 16 hundreds, the battles between Protestants and Catholics are infamous.

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my kids refuse to pledge
Posted by: duendeazul on Mar 10, 2007 2:02 PM   
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My son came home very upset when he was in the 3rd grade. He had just learned that the word "pledge" was synonymous with "promise." He was enraged that he had been coerced into giving his word, his promise, without understanding what he was doing. He was so angry that to this day (5 years later) when expected to stand and say the pledge he says; "I do NOT pledge. . . " He has my full support, couldn't be prouder of him. He understands that his word is his bond, that it is meaningful and not to be given lightly. He also understands that he would not give his allegiance to an entity which changes with it's elections. A new commander-in-chief has new requirements, making old oaths of allegiance meaningless. If you are going to swear your loyalty to anyone who wins an elction and do his bidding. . .hope we don't elect a Hitler, eh? Or are you okay with killing people because some misguided egomaniac says you should?

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» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: duendeazul
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: VZEQICVA
» Quakers Posted by: mirimac
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: EagleMB
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: my kids refuse to pledge Posted by: EagleMB
I gotta say, the picture with this story is really hilarious
Posted by: timebomb734 on Mar 10, 2007 2:08 PM   
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nm

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ANOTHER GOVERNMENT DISTRACTION
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Mar 10, 2007 2:16 PM   
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Something to fight about amongst ourselves while they sell us down the tubes. Religion is not a requirement and it's not for everyone. Most of us believe in something/someone. It's a private, personal thing and should not be a part of government. When the two are combined people can no longer rely on a legal system to protect us. The civil laws might not be recognized by the religion and vice versa. Not a good idea. Thanks, ANNA

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Separation of church and state
Posted by: opit on Mar 10, 2007 6:03 PM   
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Biblical record was the impetus for keeping politics out of religion for the new Protesters of the authority of churches. Jesus was killed because religious authorities pressured the state into murder. Pilate judged him innocent and a sacrifice which spat in the face of any moral "authority" of the temple.
As a cautionary tale against mixing religion and politics I can think of no equal. It mocks efforts to sway the state from impartiality as a "Christian" concept.

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The Agenda of the Relgious Right
Posted by: sofla100 on Mar 10, 2007 6:23 PM   
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As the Christian Evangelical Right prepares for the "Armageddon" and "End Days" when "the Arabs attack Israel" to bring about the "Rapture," we all better be alert for the agenda of these Right wing nut jobs. For them, the only good Muslim is a dead one or a "converted one", and it is the "duty of Christian nations" to evangelize and convert "the heathen." So, like parasites, they will spread to the lands America controls, eventually hoping they can "get in on the action in Iraq." And, here we thought the crusades were over and Americans think Muslims are the main group to be feared. Just look however close and amongst yourselves.

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effing rediculous
Posted by: diamondvajra on Mar 10, 2007 8:34 PM   
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you know this is sooo stupid. let's all go skipping merrily back to the dark ages. why not? after all weren't those the good old days, plague, pestulance, but everyone was a believer. having seen what happened to those who even dreamed of questioning let alone believing in something else. anyone remember the inquisition? and we can watch as we suffer a brain drain of massive proportions. and we can let these beknighted fools alone drooling in the corners.

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The Heart of it All
Posted by: LeaderofMen on Mar 11, 2007 7:54 AM   
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"The heart of it all is an informed electorate," wrote Minnery. "If church people understand the issues, and become motivated to act on what they know, they will turn this country around."

Nope, the Talibanicals know for a fact that the heart of it all is an UNINFORMED electorate who substitute mythology for knowledge and science.

Because to them, using one's brain takes up way too much time, effort, and displeases God.

That is religion in the US. It has nothing at all to do with spirituality. It has everything to do with power, control and money. It is a sham. Your god is fake. Walk away from it and breathe in the fresh secular air.

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Evolution is Theory
Posted by: hunterd on Mar 11, 2007 8:27 AM   
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laws designed to undercut evolution by making it appear that the theory is not sound scientifically.

Anyone with even 2/3 of a brain knows that evolution is simply a theory. A good scientist (or a teacher as it relates to this article) should be able to explore the topic fully. For example, most mammals appeared during the Cenozoic period that lasted about 65 million years -- a mere blip on the evolution timeline. It is far shorter than it should be.

A teacher should be allowed to point these things out to his students without fear of retribution. It doesn't have to be about promoting religion -- it should be about promoting the theory fully.

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» theory vs scientific method Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: theory vs scientific method Posted by: indradawn
» RE: theory vs scientific method Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: theory vs scientific method Posted by: indradawn
» assuming evolution to be true Posted by: freedomhawk
» RE: assuming evolution to be true Posted by: LeftCoastProgressive
Seek sanity
Posted by: reval on Mar 11, 2007 8:39 AM   
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WVCSR

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BAN RELIGION (all of em)
Posted by: patvic1405 on Mar 11, 2007 9:42 AM   
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Well, I can dream, can't I? But since banning religion does not seem to be an option - the mouthbreathers outnumber us considerably - then tax the damn churches up the yingyang. I am sick of those hypocrites getting a free ride on my tax dollars. Churches are nothing but Repuke recruiting stations. SHUT EM DOWN!

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C-Span-Washington Journal March 12, 2007
Posted by: mite on Mar 11, 2007 2:07 PM   
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Congressman Ron Paul (R-TX) to Run for President of the U.S. in 2008.

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Thanks, Douglas. . .
Posted by: indradawn on Mar 11, 2007 2:31 PM   
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. . .for your many posts illustrating the violence and otherwise horrible teachings in our revered Bible. It seems our God-fearing friends may know more about cherrypicking "intelligence" (and I use that word ever so lightly) than even GWB.

Thankfully, society has "evolved," victims of rape (in our country anyway) are not put to death and stoning is not an execution method (not even in Texas!).

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Wasn't somebody asking about Bible contradictions?
Posted by: doctorsquared on Mar 11, 2007 6:34 PM   
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Well, to start with you've got a couple different birthplaces for The Man himself, Jesus H. Christ, as well as two different genealogies relating him to David (through Joseph...oh wait, wasn't he supposed to be conceived by the ol' Holy Spirit, so what does it matter if he was of the house of David?). For more examples, I refer you here. Enjoy, and don't let your faith hit you in the buttocks on the way out.

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Whence comes this paranoia?
Posted by: ISlamIslam on Mar 11, 2007 6:59 PM   
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An answer is suggested by Lawrence Auster’s First Law of Majority-Minority Relations in Liberal Society.

"The First Law states that because of the modern liberal belief in the moral and substantive equality of all peoples and cultures, the worse any minority or non-Western group really is, the worse the West must be made to appear, as the guilty cause of the non-Western group’s bad or dysfunctional behavior, or as simply bad in itself. If the worse is made to look better, and the better made to look worse, an apparent rough equality is maintained between them, and the liberal view survives. In the case of Islam, if it is true that Islam seeks to impose an Islamic theocracy over the world, liberals cannot acknowledge this fact, because Islam would then cease being the morally equal and culturally rich Other whom we must tolerate and embrace, and become a morally inferior and hostile destructive adversary whom we must resist and exclude. Therefore, in a massive act of denial, liberals displace the danger Islam poses to the West onto the West itself, especially onto American conservative Christians. Instead of the threat being the historically and actually existing Islamic agenda to establish an Islamic world theocracy, the threat becomes a non-existent American Christian agenda to establish an American or even a world Christian theocracy, a threat that must be met by radically weakening Christianity or even eliminating it altogether.

Thus, having discovered that a non-Western religion is waging war on the West, the left responds by waging war against the West’s own religion."

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» luckypuck Posted by: luckypuck
» Well, they are both irrational Posted by: doctorsquared
luckypuck
Posted by: luckypuck on Mar 12, 2007 12:06 AM   
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"Men of sense are really but of one religion" ..."Pray, my lord, what religion is that which men of sense agree in" "Madam," says the Earl immediately, "men of sense never tell it."
--Lord Shaftesbury.

Conservative Christians do us all a great favor by making it crystal clear that they wish to establish Christianity as the US state religion. But, for some reason, they can't see what most of the rest of do, that the US Constitution establishes a SECULAR form of government. There just happens to be a lot of Christians living here. Alas, they're unable to decide which among the many different Christian sects should be the one established, but they don't mind doing some mischief along the way.

As for our current school situation, from the Conservative "Back to the Basics" crap of the 1970s and 1980s to the current "No Child Left Behind" (also crap), can be found the source of a majority, if not all problems. Back to the Basics was a typical conservative knee-jerk reaction to all things liberal. Presidents Nixon, Reagan and Bush I cut off the educational experimentation of the 1950s and 1960s at the knees. All three were card-carrying Christian Conservative boot-lickers who were called on to kill public education in the US because it was "permissive," a euphemism for "liberal, commie, pinko, brainwashers of America's youth."

Their Back to the Basics idea of education was the "I went through it, my parents went through it and look how good we'uns turned out" process of learning. It's a variant of one of the dumbest expression ever minted: "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." With that attitude, no one would have invented the wheel because the travois wasn't broke and was workin' jes' fine.

Of course, there were good things and bad things in those 60s and 70s experiments. One was the surprising (to some) discovery that all people don't learn in only one style. The current one-size-fits-all, rote-learning method is steeped in the agricultural/industrial view of everything. And it worked for a while, but as soon as middle and low income kids wanted more than a sixth grade education, it quickly became obvious to educators that it really never was a good process. In fact, it was being described as outmoded as early as just before the Great Depression, but then folks suddenly had other things to worry about.

Those liberal, white tower educators discovered that learning was far more complex than anyone ever realized (except maybe Socrates, but then they made him drink poison—too liberal). They found that there were many, many different styles of learning and thinking, and each person had his/her own personal mix of styles that worked best for that person.

Here's just a few:
Visual learners like to observe people and situations.
Interactive Learners learn best when verbalizing their thoughts and feelings.
Haptic Learners learn best through their sense of touch
Aural Learners learn best by listening.
Kinesthetic Learners need to move in order to learn.
Accommodator Dynamic Learners
Diverger Innovative Learners
Converger Common Sense Learners
Assimilator Analytical Learners
Assembler Synthetical Learners
Objective thinkers and Subjective thinkers, Rote learners and Experiential learners. The list is long.

No Child Left Behind is an atrocity. It is to children's minds what Walter Reed Hospital is to soldier's bodies. They are left to suffer from neglect and the slings and arrows of outrageous partisanship after giving what is asked of them no matter how unrealistic the demands. NCLB is steeped in all the worst of the agricultural/industrial model of education, and no wonder, since president Bush is owned and operated by business and industry. Who's fooling whom?

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Not the way you're thinking of it
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Mar 12, 2007 1:22 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Theory" in this case means it's about as nailed down as it gets. You can actually see it in action on Madagascar and Galapagos. There's simply no other way it could be, and it's regarded - except by non-scientists and religious brainwas cases as the way it is. "Non-believers" in evolution are just ignorant or another version of "flat-earthers". You're confusing "theory" with "hypothesis".

I agree that they teach the wrong things in schools these days, and teach them incorrectly. We know so much about how the human animal learns now that we could turn out physicists after high school. At the very least we should turn out adults who can cope with things as they are. Instead, we keep them children until it's, "Well, you're an adult now, so act like one!" out of the blue, and they're incompetent. The entire system needs to be revamped. Keep in mind that science is only good for HOW, not why. Philosophy and religion can guide you in the why, but you have to reach your own conclusions. If your teachers are decent and honest, you have the best chance for becoming so yourself.

Politicizing schools is the last thing that should be done, though teaching politics, HONEST history and info is an absolute necessity. Indoctrination into the Corporate version of the Patriotism religion (and it IS a religion), "learning by rote" instead of learning HOW to think, obedience because they're told to obey by someone in authority who is often less intelligent and is threatened by intelligent kids - we make about every error in the book. You can't teach freedom AND obedience and dependence at the same time; they're mutually exclusive. Reason and superstition don't work well together either. It looks, though, like things might end up so defunded by the Bush administration that communities might have to take over schooling on a completely different paradigm, more like the old one-room schoolhouses our great grandparents attended. Those turned out some incredible scholars, though.

Americans don't appreciate knowledge anymore. To kids in school, it's a pain and a waste of time as they KNOW it's mostly BS; to parents it's a babysitter. As for pride in our country, we try for a kneejerk thing instead of teaching WHY, and we end up with idiots who think disagreement is treachery, never considering freedom of thought, much less of speech. It's SO frustrating to be this old and damaged at such a time.

Ian

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» I hope that you are done now... Posted by: freedomhawk
» Douglas Posted by: Aimleft
Equal time?
Posted by: crashgrab on Mar 12, 2007 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are you kidding? Kids barely get enough time to learn reading, writing and arithmetic. You want them to learn the bible, qur'an, pali canon, the vedas, the satanic bible, the new age's course in miracles, the kojiki, spiritism's book of mediums, guru granth sahib, and every other religion's (and sects of those religions) texts? Or wait, were you just wanting them to learn the bible in school?

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The Bible?
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Mar 12, 2007 9:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has it's share of wisdom - and cruelty, and sheer stupidity, along with bit and pieces of most of the religions and shamanistic practices that have ever existed. You can use it to justify or denigrate anything at all. It's the human mind in microcosm. I'd say teach it's history and the wisdom you can filter out, and leave the rest as an exercise for older students to dig through AFTER they've learned to think.

All I've had is a high school education - and an insatiable curiosity. I am VERY spiritual, and not a Christian. At this time in our history, we have a choice that basically boils down to, "Grow up or die." I'd rather see us grow up. We can set out now to explore the stars and set our feet on a path that can lead to something as much more than we are now as we are more than the apes, or we can cling in fear to the trees that most of us never really came down from. It's going to cost us whatever we do. I'd at least like to have the terrible price we will pay, and have payed throughout our long history be worth it.

The knuckle-dragging, fearful chest-beaters, the greedy "gimme mine (which is everything I SAY is mine) and there is no future", lying, murdering destroyers HAVE TO GO FIRST.

And thank you.

Ian

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private schools
Posted by: lindalee on Mar 12, 2007 11:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am one happy parent. I live in a small, liberal town in Massachusetts. The surrounding towns are mostly conservative (the state is not all liberal) and their schools are just not as good as our high school. I would not trade my son's public education for anything - not even a so-called private school. So, you folks that think that we poor folks would jump at the chance are wrong. Republicans are very focused on the teachers as the problem when it comes to public schools....my son is a senior and the biggest problems come about from budget cuts. Our Republican governor (good riddance Mitt Romney) was lousy on education and only cared about his portfolio. Our schools suffered. When Republicans are in control, nothing good happens.

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Dear Douglas,
Posted by: freedomhawk on Mar 12, 2007 3:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wanted to start a new thread to deal with the many accusations that you have made. I apologize to the remainder of the readers that this has become a necessity, but the multitude of posts that this commentor has made have detracted from the intent of the original article.

You have succeeded in demonstrating that are capable of reading what you want to see and disregarding the remainder. Why don't you consider reading the rest of the Bible, such as the part about God's love for all of mankind (see the whole New Testament).

The portions of the Bible that you glory in reproducing to feed your own hatred have been superseded by the rules for conduct given in the New Testament.

Let me give a modern day illustration. Within the current legal system, current laws and legislation supersede previous laws, making them null and void. The New Testament is the more current portion of the Bible, making that portion the binding part. The Law of Moses, which you incessently refer to, was "fulfilled" (as the New Testament describes), paving the way for a newer set of rules for life. The New Testament reiterates many of the Commandments yet does not attach any of the harsh penalties that you so love to recite. I hope that this has been put in a way that you can understand, ending the diatribe you enjoy so much.

Before anyone gets upset about a Christian speaking about the love of God, let me show you from the Bible what a Christian is supposed to emulate. Look at Galatians 5:22-23. It says that Christians are to exhibit love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, and self-control (New International Version). I can see how people could hate Christians for being like that (sarcasm intended). True Christians are not perfect, nor do they claim to be; however, a true Christians seeks to incorporate these character traits into their own lives. Unfortunately, failure is sometimes the greatest teacher.

Douglas, now that you have no basis for your rants, maybe you will stop. I had hoped to just leave you alone, but you persisted.

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» You must, therefore concede... Posted by: doctorsquared
» Rational thinking is needed. Posted by: freedomhawk
» Oops, this is embarrassing! Posted by: freedomhawk
» Hittites Posted by: Mal'ak
» Numbers 31 Posted by: Mal'ak
» Read what's there Posted by: Mal'ak
» Hebrew Posted by: Mal'ak
» Hebrew Posted by: Mal'ak
» Well... Posted by: Mal'ak
» Still waiting... Posted by: Mal'ak
» Keep on reading Posted by: Mal'ak
» Jericho Posted by: Mal'ak
» Interesting Posted by: Mal'ak
» Use of Scripture Posted by: Mal'ak
» Your logic... Posted by: Mal'ak
» Then enlighten me. Posted by: Mal'ak
» "Peer Reviewed" Posted by: Mal'ak
» Yawn! Posted by: Mal'ak
» Illustration Posted by: Mal'ak
» I see now... Posted by: Mal'ak
» RE: ational thinking is needed. Posted by: Ian MacLeod
» Well said, Highlander... Posted by: doctorsquared
» You mean here? Posted by: Mal'ak
» Re-read Ian's question Posted by: Mal'ak
» Really? Posted by: Mal'ak
» Ummm... Posted by: Mal'ak
» Admit it? Posted by: Mal'ak
» Bold claims Posted by: Mal'ak
» Concerning Paul... Posted by: Mal'ak
» Don't put words in my mouth Posted by: Mal'ak
Theocracy in Georgia
Posted by: stratas on Mar 13, 2007 2:18 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Maybe it's just me, but there was a palpable change, even in Georgia, sometime in the 1980s. Before then, at least in my experience, it was not considered polite to too openly discuss religion in the context of politics, and the two were very commonly kept separate. Then along came the Moral Majority and the days of wearing one's religion on one's sleeve became not only acceptable, but almost a requirement. I'm of course reminded of Christ's admonition to pray in private and not for all the world to see, as the hypocrites do. Of course, this instruction, like so many others, appears to be lost on these latter-day believers.

So, as Georgia lurches ever closer to at least a soft form of theocracy, I've moved bag and baggage out of my home state to a place where diversity is not only tolerated, but celebrated. For those who remain behind to fight the good fight, I wish all the best.

stratas

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Fake Left
Posted by: ISlamIslam on Mar 13, 2007 5:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I truly do not understand why the Left in this country has so much fear and loathing of present-day Christianity and has zero/zip/nada to say about Islam. It's like obsessing about a poodle running around your living room while a pack of rotweilers is snarling at your front door, just waiting for you to open the door enough so it can push its way in. It'd be nice if Alternet and other Left-leaning websites published even one article on the threat Islam poses to Western freedom and democracy for every 20 articles they do about Christianity. Talk about being fake Left!

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NEW POLITICAL WEBSITE
Posted by: electorials on Mar 13, 2007 8:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
hey...come check out www.electorials.com

Check out our brand new blogs and our great and organized political message boards.

Bryan

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southdakotagov.info
Posted by: jasong on Mar 14, 2007 12:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Laws are only for people that think there are laws.

The State picks and chooses who will follow the law and who will avoid prosecution all in the name of money.

31 fake social security numbers with a million in booty while the state law enforcement agencies cover it up.

email sen. John Thune for confirmation.

Judges make the laws.

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Please set aside America's theocratic plutocracy for a moment and read this...
Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Mar 15, 2007 10:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
AMERICANS: READ AND RE-READ THE 2ND AMENDMENT TO THE U.S. CONSTITUTION AND PLEASE START FORMING LOCAL/REGIONAL [civilian/non-military/non-police] MILITIAS RIGHT NOW. SADLY, WE MIGHT NEED THEM COME 2008/09.

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Douglas, You say the killing of innocents is a terrible thing, yet you defend the worst!
Posted by: freedomhawk on Mar 15, 2007 3:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You condemn the Lord for stopping those horrible practices of human sacrifice! The Canaanites regularly sacrificed their infant children to those heathen deities and demons. You have been defending human sacrifice! You call your anti-religious bias a good thing and then attack the only group of people that stood up against self-mutilation as shown in 1 Kings 17 and infant sacrifice, such as to the god Molech.

You have intentionally misled people with your virulent posts, and your defense of such horrible practices is inconcievable.

You are the only one forcing your beliefs here. Look at the number of redundant postings that you have placed under totally irrelevant topics. The topic is concerning vouchers. You have been proven wrong and illogical time and again. Every question you have asked has been answered. God Jehovah is the same God of the New Testament. At what point can you not accept that God wants the best for mankind?

The Bible is true and contains no discrepencies. That has been proven with evidence from secular, liberal sources; yet you continue to rant. You cannot prove the Bible to be false.

I have continually been educated and tolerant throughout your hostility, yet you continually allege that Christians are the ones who are intolerant. Your basic premise is faulty; therefore all of your conclusions must also be faulty.

Stop fighting what is not a threat to you or anyone else.

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Here is the american communist party 1963 agenda 1-15 the rest follows
Posted by: OhioPatriot on Mar 16, 2007 12:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think there is really any strong case in the constitution for separation of church and state, it is mostly derived from an opinion letter between founders.

The reference to the 1st ammendment is a weak argument when you actually look at it for what it was intended. no laws to my knowledge have been passed in respect to religion. what most people whom support separation try to pass as law is merely allowance of free expession.

The fact that a school would allow time for prayer does not bother me anymore than them allowing time for lunch. It is a time out for the individual to use privately to consume nutrients or in the case of religon spirituality. Its been way overplayed by the left.

What follows does alarm me, It is the agenda of mthe communist party in 1963, unedited, it seems they succeded in most of thier agenda, but under what name?

You are about to read a list of 45 goals that found their way down the halls of our great Capitol back in 1963. As you read this, 39 years later, you should be shocked by the events that have played themselves out. With the help of the ACLU (itself a communist organization from inception), most all of thier agendas have come to flourish
For the purposes of this discussion please read item 28.

Communist Goals (1963) Congressional Record--Appendix, pp. A34-A35 January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR. OF FLORIDA IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES Thursday, January 10, 1963 .

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman's request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following "Current Communist Goals," which she identifies as an excerpt from "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen:

[From "The Naked Communist," by Cleon Skousen]

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war.

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war.

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength.

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war.

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites.

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination.

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N.

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev's promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N.

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress.

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N.

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party.

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths.

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office.

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States.

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15-42 of the 1963 communist agenda
Posted by: OhioPatriot on Mar 16, 2007 12:45 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights.

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers' associations. Put the party line in textbooks.

18. Gain control of all student newspapers.

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policy-making positions.

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures.

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to "eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms."

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. "Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art."

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them "censorship" and a violation of free speech and free press.

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV.

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as "normal, natural, healthy."

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with "social" religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity, which does not need a "religious crutch."

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principle of "separation of church and state."

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis.

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the "common man."

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the "big picture." Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over.

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture--education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc.

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus.

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities.

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions.

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business.

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat].

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce.

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents.

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition.

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Thank you Douglas for your perseverance
Posted by: doctorsquared on Mar 19, 2007 7:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has been truly hilarious to watch all our resident apologists squirm when confronted with your detailed knowledge of the absurdities to be found in the bible.

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» Perseverance = right? Posted by: freedomhawk
» Squirm? Posted by: Mal'ak
it looked so easy
Posted by: tom cady on Mar 20, 2007 3:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
it looked so easy, our heritage beckoned
the nation was, after all, christian
and so they began their crusade marching toward theocracy
and as they plodded the children wailed “are we there yet?”
and god whispered “you're going the wrong way”

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Faith Based and Community Initiatives can protect our rights
Posted by: sjstlouis on Mar 28, 2007 6:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have been an active supporter of the Democratic party and many human rights initiatives over the past several years and I too was suspicious of the Faith-Based initiatives created by the current presidential administration. As an employee for an adoption agency that has secured a Faith Based and Community Initiative Grant I have seen firsthand the success of this program and much of the support has come from our State's employees with whom we collaborate. We are working toward the same goal of finding homes for foster children and they are glad to have the help. We have access to people and resources that the State's workers desperately need and they have experience that benefits us too. Certainly we have differences and coming to trust each other was a challenge but this is an example of government being practical instead of ideological and ultimately the collective goal is being reached. More than 75% of people who adopt are active in a faith community and the government is restricted from actively soliciting in that target-rich environment. The FB&C initiatives have broken through that and are making headway. I believe that one of the rights that we have as Americans is the right to an efficient government and right to know that we are getting what we pay for. Like anything else in government there will be abuses and exceptions but this is making better use of tax dollars and helping to create a more efficient government.

I hope that more people will pay more attention to the facts and less attention on their fears.

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