Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Rights and Liberties

Where Mel Gibson Got His Anti-Semitism

By Heidi Beirich, SPLC Intelligence Report. Posted January 27, 2007.


Numbering near 100,000, radical traditionalist Catholics, who reject the teachings of the modern papacy, may form America's largest group of anti-Semites.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

"Fucking Jews!"

So began Mel Gibson's now infamous anti-Semitic rant to Los Angeles sheriff's deputies who pulled him over on suspicion of drunken driving last July. "The Jews are responsible for all the wars in the world," the world-famous movie actor continued, before asking his arresting officer: "Are you a Jew?"

After his tirade made international news, Gibson promptly disappeared into an addiction clinic. He left behind a statement, released through a spokesman, begging the Jewish community for forgiveness and suggesting that booze was to blame. He was, he wrote, "in the process of understanding where those vicious words came from during that drunken display." But their origin is easy enough to pinpoint -- the extremist Catholic beliefs Gibson learned at the knees of his anti-Semitic father.

Gibson's dad, Hutton Gibson, is an important player in the shadowy world of radical traditionalist Catholicism, also known as "integrism" or Catholic separatism. This religious subculture's teachings have little in common with the modern Roman Catholic Church and its universalistic theology. Hutton Gibson, for one, is a well-known Holocaust denier who believes the Second Vatican Council reforms of the 1960s, which made the church vastly more tolerant of other faiths, were the result of "a Masonic plot backed by the Jews." He is particularly incensed by the council's historic declaration, "Nostra Aetate," which condemned "all hatreds, persecutions, displays of anti-Semitism leveled at any time or from any source against the Jews." In Gibson's world, the Second Vatican Council's liberalizing reforms are rejected and anti-Semitic teachings and conspiracy theories are heartily embraced.

Like father, like son.

Mel Gibson has his own traditionalist house of worship near Los Angeles -- a church, funded entirely by him, that is not recognized by the Los Angeles Roman Catholic Archdiocese. It is unclear what is said in the hallowed halls of the Holy Family Chapel, since, unlike virtually all other Catholic churches, it is closed to the public. What is known is that Gibson is reported to have blamed Jews for forcing him to cut a scene, in which Jews and their descendants are held responsible for the murder of Christ, from his 2004 film, "The Passion of the Christ." Sounding a bit like he did that July night in Malibu, Gibson told The New Yorker: "If I included that in there, they'd be coming after me at my house. They'd come to kill me."

Few Americans defended Mel Gibson's drunken rant about the evils of the Jews. But radical traditionalist Catholics did. A three-year investigation of this subculture by the Intelligence Report has found that these Catholic extremists, including the Gibsons, may well represent the largest population of anti-Semites in the United States. Organized into a network of more than a dozen organizations, scores of websites and several extremist churches and monasteries, radical traditionalists in the U.S. are preaching anti-Semitism to as many as 100,000 followers. A few, such as the lawyer for Terri Schiavo's family, Christopher Ferrara, are even movers and shakers in important right-wing Republican circles.

Jew-bashing at the Holiday Inn

The Philadelphia airport Holiday Inn is an odd place to celebrate a Catholic mass, especially in a city filled with lovely churches and an extraordinary, century-old Romanesque cathedral. But the inn is where the radical traditionalist Catholic outfit, (CFN), held its annual conference in 2003, dressing up one end of a drab conference room with an altar, incense, and a statue of the Virgin Mary, and transforming it into a church.

The rest of the hall looked rather different. Vendors set up folding tables along almost every inch of the remaining walls, piling them high with books, videotapes and Catholic accessories. The stacks were notable for the prominence of anti-Semitic and extremist materials, from The Protocols of the Elders of Zion to Hutton Gibson's Is the Pope Catholic? to CFN head John Vennari's popular anti-Semitic conspiracy tract, The Permanent Instruction of the Alta Vendita. Priests in Roman collars staffed many tables; brown-cloaked monks manned others.

CFN conferences hearken back to the era before the Roman Catholic Church enacted the liberalizing Vatican II reforms, which removed from the weekly Mass prayers for the conversion of the Jews and also ended the centuries-old practice of celebrating the Mass in Latin, the Vatican's official language. At the Holiday Inn in 2003, Sunday's religious activities started with a now rarely celebrated hour-long recitation of the rosary. After that, apostate priests conducted a rendition of the Latin Mass, a format dating to the Middle Ages, before an audience remarkable for the veils that covered every woman's hair and the time it spent on its knees.

Vatican II did not ban these time-honored celebrations, and many Catholics who call themselves "traditionalists" continue to worship in this manner in churches that remain an official part of the Holy See (these churches are awarded an "indult" that allows them to continue celebrating the Latin Mass). The vast majority of those who practice Catholicism in this older form are unrelated to the radical traditionalist Catholics who gathered in Philadelphia. Indeed, the groups that gave presentations at the CFN conference preach a theology specifically rejected by the Vatican, and many have been declared schismatic, or officially separated from the church.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: anti-semitism, radical traditional catho, catholicism

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Rights and Liberties! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Blah blah and more blah
Posted by: tsoldrin on Jan 27, 2007 1:39 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That was quite the pedantic rant. Not much substance, but not much expected as the source was obvious by the title. Of course, everyone who mentions Jews without praise or god forbit criticizes Israel is a mindless, anti-semetic, neanderthal thug right?

One question for ya... Burundi, Benin, Chad, Senegal, Malawi, and Mali are some of the many countries more populous than Israel... further, Burkina Faso, Kazakhstan (Hello Borat), Côte d'Ivoire, and Myanmar (Burma) all at the very least double and in some cases excede the population of Israel by 400% ... yet almost noone has heard of any of these places while Israel is in the news every single day. How is it possible that such a tiny and what should be such an insignificant country have such an astounding effect on world (and especially united states) politics and foriegn policy? Should a state exactly equal in people to Virginia be deciding the policy and future of the entire world?

Sure, Mel is an asshat and a drunken fool, and people say stupid stuff when they're drunk, but really... sometimes a closer look is required and sometimes people who have a bug up their ass have it their for a very good reason.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» I Am Afraid You Are Right! Posted by: Douglas
» I disagree....... Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: edsmith
» RE: Very much agreed! Posted by: jim.cos85
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: jmooney
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: edsmith
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: timebomb734
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: insulaparadigm
» RE: Blah blah and more blah Posted by: cottontail
Anti-Semitism Rising in the USA?
Posted by: Aufklaerung_Baboon on Jan 27, 2007 1:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Many believe that anti-Semitism is on the rise in the USA; do you all think that it is? It certainly has been on the rise in Europe over the past few years, specifically France, Russia, England, and quite a few others. Even the normally liberal Scandinavian countries have reported MANY more anti-Semitic incidents over the past 5-6 years, and they continue to rise.

Though most common amongst African-Americans and Hispanic-Americans, anti-Semitism is also fairly prevalent amongst Whites in the American South and in rural areas. But it has it seems become more common amongst White middle-class Americans lately.

Though long a 'flagship belief' of the Far Right, anti-Semitism seems to have become more and more acceptable amongst people on The Left (especially the "radical Left," or Far Left); over the last few years The Left has become MUCH more anti-Semitic, much of it tied to anti-capitalist and anti-racist (Israeli apartheid) rhetoric, along with issues related to the continued non-assimilation of Jews.

I've surely noticed a rise in the last few years, I suppose part of the so called "New anti-Semitism".

Has anyone else noticed a rise in anti-Semitism in the last few years or months in the USA or elsewhere?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Very Well Said! Posted by: Douglas
» Bible Belt - are you joking? Posted by: vicki2001lynn
Right wing Christians' love-hate thing with Jews
Posted by: kepstein7777 on Jan 27, 2007 3:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They hate Jews. They love Israel.

If the Jews killed Jesus so He could die for our sins and save us...I mean, if it's all prophesized and pre-determined like they say, then ummm...

Now I'm confused...and I think it's part of a Jewish conspiracy to confuse us.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

But what about jesus himself?
Posted by: Ellie1 on Jan 27, 2007 3:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I believe HE was Jewish!!!!!!

What assholes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Holocaust
Posted by: sgfell on Jan 27, 2007 3:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Jews and the Jewish nation should realise that what they are doing in the Middle East is exactly what Hitler & his Nazis did to them during the Pogroms & the Holocaust. Short memories indeed. Mahatama Gandhi had a point when he said, "An eye for
an eye would make the whole world blind."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Well Yeah But Posted by: edith
» RE: Holocaust Posted by: figaro
» RE: Holocaust Posted by: hms2004
» RE: Holocaust Posted by: yellow
» RE: Holocaust Posted by: yellow
Think!
Posted by: paschn on Jan 27, 2007 5:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You know, After 40 plus years of having what Israel did to your fellow US citizens on the USS liberty in '67 hidden from you drones with the help of McCain's "patriotic" daddy, I began scanning the internet. I had to find out more about Jews and Israel. Since the "media" here in this free country is all but silent as far as any truth is concerned, I went to sites of foreign newspapers. I saw a completely different look at things going on between Israel and Palestine. I read about dozens of reprimmands to them from the U.N. All blown off by the Israeli owned U.S. government.
I read about human beings sent to prison, black-balled from making a living, attacked, hell in one case, (we know off), murdered. What for? rape?,... Crimes against humanity?,...Murder? Nope,...none of the above. Their only crime was exposing scientific evidence that the "holocaust" at best was extrememly exaggerated and at worst, never happened. I read about British servicemen, a sergeant and 2 other minions, who confessed to torturing a German Army officer for three days to get his name on a confession about Hitler's "final solution". I saw Pictures of the dead and maimed from the USS liberty, pictures of an un-armed canadian peace activist, (who unlike you drones was THERE and saw first hand the Israeli treatment of Palestinians), shot. Are you aware that the Insignificant" little terrorist nation wields enough power to get Draconian laws passed in WESTERN European nations and CANADA that call for prison time and HEFTY fines for ANYONE DARING to say the holocaust was NOT as is taught? Did YOU see the frames of film shot as an Israeli drove a bulldozer over an unarmed 23 year old American girl, crushing her to DEATH? Her Crime? trying to stop an ILLEGAL Israeli occupier from crushing the home of an 80 year old cripple. Did you see the photos of the young man shot by snipers in the occupied lands for brazenly trying to get small children to shelter from Israeli snipers having a little "fun"?
Did you EVER consider that; the same media that helped Bush et al cause the murder of almost 700,000 and counting human beings based SOLEY on lies would also "fail" to objectively report BOTH sides of the story unfolding in the occupied Palestinian lands? Did you read the speech of a retiring U.S. legislator in which he stated that ALL in Washington, him included know without a doubt the primary reason for the slaughter in Iraq was brought about at the behest, (or DEMMAND ), of Israel? When I asked a fellow worker, an immigrant from Armenia, how Europeans in general felt about Jews, he smiled and quietly said, "You westerners haven't learned how treacherous Jews can be, but you will."
Am I anti-Semetic? no. Am I anti-Zionist/Israel? yup.
A nation of sheep, led by a cartel of whores controlled by big busieness. Welcome,.. to the REAL Evil Empire.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Think! Posted by: bbfmail
» I had no idea I was Jewish! Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Think! Posted by: yellow
another blah for ya
Posted by: motamanx on Jan 27, 2007 5:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Religion should be outlawed---for the good of mankind.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Fucking Jews
Posted by: edsmith on Jan 27, 2007 5:50 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't agree with Mel Gibsons dumb comment or the reason for uttering it but I do believe that he has a right to say it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Fucking Jews Posted by: tiptopshape
» FIRE! Posted by: WitchyNy
» RE: Fucking Jews Posted by: Llama11
» RE: Fucking Jews & Fire Posted by: edsmith
» RE: Fucking Jews & Fire Posted by: yellow
» RE: Fucking Jews & Fire Posted by: blitzmesser
I don't get it
Posted by: clthompson on Jan 27, 2007 6:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amazing how many virulent, anti-Semitic (sorry, I forgot. . .you all are not anti-Semitic at all, just anti-Zionist) folks are out there. Hatred of the Jews makes no sense if you are Christian. Christ was a Jew. A Jew! His mother, Mary, was a Jew, all of the disciples were Jews. Paul was a Jew. All of the first Christians were Jews and initially, you had to be Jewish to be a Christian. (that requirement was thrown out with a universal reluctance to become circumcized.) But to continue, the last supper was a Passover. Christianity is directly rooted in the Jewish religion, and monotheism was the great Jewish gift to the Western world. It was Paul who brought Chrisitianity to the gentiles and he never excoriated Jews. Christ himself never blamed Jews (remember, he was one), and in fact, it was the Romans who carried out and tortured Christ, not the Jews. Anti-Semitism began a few hundred years after Christ's ascension by one of the early Popes, and because we always need someone to blame for the ills of the world, and we are jealous by nature at time, it caught on, shamefully so. I am ashamed of the anti-Semitc history of my Christian religion and I find myself growing away from a religion that could espouse this kind of virulence.

As for the current state of Israel, abuses may occur, but they occur in every part of the globe, including our own country. People are marginalized and oppressed everywhere and yet Israel is held up as worst example of all. Give me a break! Many Islamic countries are far worse in attempting to cleanse their ranks of nonbelievers (Darfur, the Kurds, the Taliban), and our own country has had a shameful past in this regard not only with African Americans, but with the original inhabitants, native Americans. Read the history of Andrew Jackson's removal of vast populations of Indians West and you will see real horror and you will weep if you have a Christian soul at all. Add to this a recent poll that I read about who likes living in Israel. Interesting and understandable that more than 80 percent of Israelis enjoy living in their own country, but the telling point is that over 70 percent of Arabs who live in the country feel the same way (yes, Arabs live there, are productive, and live decent lives).

Peace.

To those who say they are devout Catholics (and others), but attend these conventions and seminars denying the holocaust, promoting hatred of Jews and others, I say you have missed entirely what Christianity means. In fact you are no Christians at all. Go back to the words of Christ. Live by those words alone and anti-Semiticism can not flourish or even root. Peace can.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I don't get it Posted by: dangerouslysane
» RE: I don't get it Posted by: Glennk1949
» RE: I don't get it Posted by: knjaz
» RE: I don't get it Posted by: off-the-radar 2
Ignorance fed by Nepotism
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jan 27, 2007 7:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mr Gibson may be anti-Semitic and that is a regrettable thing, but he is working in an industry that is full of nepotism and cliqueism in the extreme. I do not subscribe to any goofy conspiracy theories, but the Entertainment Industry's hiring practices, especially at the highest levels, do not pass the smell test.

In a well educated and diverse nation of 300 million people, what is the likelihood that the overwhelming common characteristic of those running Television, Film Production, Music and Publishing would be a religion that is a very small percentage of our nation's population? I would say very slim. It's time for a little affirmative action for the goyem.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The author doesn't mention Israel - how refreshing!
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 27, 2007 8:04 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's very encouraging to see that Jewish people around the world are dissociating the very old and rich traditions of Judaism (which include very good scholarship, etc.) from the semi-totalitarian and highly oppressive state of Israel - just as many Muslims around the world do not view the psychotic Wahhabis of Saudi Arabia or the dogmatic Shia clerics as their guiding lights - just as many Christians do not view the blow-dried meth-snorting Evangelists of Colorado Springs or the creepy Opus Dei branch of Catholicism as examples of "Christian values" - just as many secular types don't view Social Darwinism as the basis of rational humanism.

Like Rodney King said, "Can't we all just - get along?"

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Mel could be right
Posted by: rwmk12 on Jan 27, 2007 8:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is mel right? Is there some powerful Jewish presence leading america to war? There are theories going around about Mossad involvement in 911 attacks. International Jewry boycotted Nazi Germany from international trade before Holocaust. The United States came into the 1st world war, and turned the tide thanks to American Jewish influence, and the British promise for Palestine in return. Are these theories true? Hard to say but there is evidence that suggests all three are true. Then there is the Khazar theory that suggests that the majority of Jews in Israel are really not even racially semetic. Hate mongering is wrong, but I am suspicious of our "liberal" presses emphasis on antisemetic witchhunt's McCarthism anyone?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Mel could be right Posted by: lotus23
» RE: Mel could be right Posted by: edsmith
» RE: Mel could be right Posted by: tiellis
religion isn't the problem
Posted by: rwmk12 on Jan 27, 2007 8:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
religion isn't the problem... rhetoric would just change to "secularlized" lingo, and the many would follow... Bush is doing just fine with his rhetoric about terrorists and freedom and all that perpetual war bs. Bring democracy to a country means bringing "International" Capitalism, which translates to "our companies will now manage your resources for you, and you can vote for our puppets, since both Candidates our our guys"... red or blue... good cop, bad cop... its all the same

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: oh but it is Posted by: knjaz
A Hard Life
Posted by: meg in iowa on Jan 27, 2007 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Good article, and with that....... (this is more effective with the music - you can find it online, I'm sure.) Peace. - meg

Nanci Griffith---It's A Hard Life Wherever You Go

I am a backseat driver from America
They drive to the left on Falls Road
The man at the wheel's name is Seamus
We pass a child on the corner he knows
And Seamus says, Now, what chance has that
kid got?
And I say from the back, I don't know.
He says, There's barbed wire at all of these exits . . .
And there ain't no place in Belfast for that kid
to go.

(chorus)
It's a hard life
It's a hard life
It's a very hard life
It's a hard life wherever you go
If we poison our children with hatred
then, the hard life is all that they'll know
And there ain't no place in Belfast for
these kids to go
(Chicago)
(This world)

A cafeteria line in Chicago
The fat man in front of me
Is calling black people trash to his children
he's the only trash here I see
And I'm thinking this man wears a white hood
in the night when his children should sleep
But, they slip to their window and they see him
And they think that white hood's all they need

(repeat chorus)

I was a child in the sixties
dreams could be held through TV
With Disney, and Cronkite, and Martin Luther
Oh, I believed, I believed . . I BELIEVED
Now, I am the backseat driver from America
I am not at the wheel of control
I am guilty, I am war, . . . I am the root of all evil
Lord, and I can't drive on the left side of the road

(repeat chorus)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: A Hard Life Posted by: jmooney
So Far, So Good
Posted by: JCR on Jan 27, 2007 8:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Well, they've [Jews] always been good at making money (nothing wrong with that) and they know whoever controls the money (banking and financial institutions for example) controls much of the destiny of the "free world".


"When I asked a fellow worker, an immigrant from Armenia, how Europeans in general felt about Jews, he smiled and quietly said, "You westerners haven't learned how treacherous Jews can be, but you will."
Am I anti-Semetic? no. Am I anti-Zionist/Israel? yup."


"Jews have no monoploy on victimhood. They are really good at hating Arabs."


Just a nice smattering of opinions regarding Jews and the thread is still so young . . .

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: So Far, So Good Posted by: albrechtkrausse
» RE: So Far, So Good Posted by: Nora
I Am So Happy For The Jews
Posted by: hole11 on Jan 27, 2007 8:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have their own country, they have their own businesses, they have a subsuperpower military, they have nukes and if we say anything bad about them we are called anti-semetic.

I would be much happier if we started making these religious institutions pay for their protection.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Solution is both papists and jews just get out of the USA.
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Jan 27, 2007 9:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems that, according to Alternet, the two main sources of all wars, financial shenanigans, crimes, racism, sexual abuse, human rights abuse, and sexism are two groups: Catholics and Jews. So maybe its time for them to leave, or, at minimum voters reject all candidates of those religious or tied to those lobbyists.

Inrestingly, it is only until the 'liberal' (to use the American sense of the term) forced the majority society to accept these interlopers that thier, at least visible, influence has been so great on America and, by extension, the world. Remember the 'questions' about Kennedy- since he was an admitted papist and would directly obey his orders from the pope and not the American public? Remember Nixon tapes in which he discusses the pernicious influence of jews in American politics? Remember the recent Vatican bank scandal? Remember the Vatican 'ratline' to funnel Nazis out of Europe once the Allies won? Remember Isreal spies on the USA? Isreal abuses Arabs? And the media/banking interests?

Now, however, the only people who can re-discover the facts are the progressives. No one else can criticise or point out the damaging influence these groups have had on America, except Alternet. However, I'm sure Alternet will be criticised/targeted by ADL, Opeus Day and the other militant militia shocktroops of these two religions--->so watch out on your bank accounts and have some lawyers ready.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Theodor Herzl :
Posted by: rwa on Jan 27, 2007 9:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Theodor Herzl (1860-1904), the founder of modern Zionism, recognized that anti-Semitism would further his cause, the creation of a separate state for Jews. To solve the Jewish Question, he maintained “we must, above all, make it an international political issue.” Herzl wrote that Zionism offered the world a welcome “final solution of the Jewish question.” In his “Diaries”, page 19, Herzl stated “Anti-Semites will become our surest friends, anti-Semitic countries our allies.”

http://www.jewsagainst zionism.com/antisemitism/zionismpromotes.cfm

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Theodor Herzl : Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: Theodor Herzl : Posted by: truthfinder
» Remove the space Posted by: rwa
Good Article, But Too Generous To Catholic Hierarchy
Posted by: thirdmg on Jan 27, 2007 9:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The main fault I find in this otherwise impressive article is that it is overly generous in its presentation of liberalizing views in the post-Vatican II church, and especially of the two most recent popes.

Although the majority of European and American Catholics have become liberal on various issues, including openness towards other religions, the Catholic hierarchy is often mired in, and promotes, an insidious pre-Vatican II conservatism. A prime example of an official Vatican document promoting this archaic mentality is Dominus Iesus issued in August 2000. For a quick summary and background on the document, see the article, Exclusive Claim, from the National Catholic Reporter.

"While allowing that followers of other religions can be saved (though only in a mysterious fashion and only through the grace of Christ), Dominus Iesus insists they are nevertheless in a 'gravely deficient situation' in comparison to Christians who alone 'have the fullness of the means of salvation.' ... The document was swiftly branded a 'pastoral disaster' by theologians involved in interreligious dialogue.”

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Eat the Rich
Posted by: WitchyNy on Jan 27, 2007 9:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why is there so much focus on the "Jewish Holocoast" in THIS country?
Why not focus on the one that actually happened here...to our Native Americans?

Why is there so much focus on Jews? This hatred of Jews is based on power and money...one way or another they got us to attack the Arabs after 911..and Americans know this is true ...they FEEL it...and so a resentment of Jews is rising in our national consciousness.

That was the collective American conscious Mel Gibson was speaking to in his drunken rant...and the fear was as a result the American people would start to think 'oh yeah- Jews DID create this war'.

Israel is an insignificant little spot of land, but it is 'holy land' so we are now fighting a religious war-and for the almighty oil of course. Our soldiers are KILLING Arabs..and people like Rachael Carrey..but God Forbid that we should actually TALK about any of this...or hold any Jews responsible.

It is not a hatred of Jews...it is a hatred of the Rich...and the little discussed fact that so often here in America these two are the same people.

I remember a quote from a young Israel guy right after 911-"Don't worry about America... he said...Israel OWNS America".
It was never repeated again in the press...I think a lot of Americans felt the shock I did..and the resentment ..from that guy's statement.

He was just a kid...and Gibson was just drunk...but sometimes that is how the real truth comes out.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: at the Rich Posted by: MrAllen
» RE: at the Rich Posted by: edsmith
» RE: at the Rich Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: at the Rich Posted by: olita
» RE: at the Rich Posted by: yellow
Separating Israel and Judaism
Posted by: sofla100 on Jan 27, 2007 9:48 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Left's biggest problem when it comes to anything perceived as "anti-semetic," is the automatic and final association that so many seem to make between Israel and Judaism. Judaism is a religion and Israel is a country, a nation-state and a political entity. Now, the Left's problem with Israel is not that some countries are worse and more apartheid, of course they are, but no other country besides Israel is the #1 recipient of American foreign aid. The USA pays 20% of Israel's defense budget, what other country receives such favorable treatment? So, the Left is justifiably angry when a recipient of such favorable American treatment and largesse behaves so badly (e.g., killing Arab civilians, kidapping & torturing them, building walls, etc.). And, besides this, is the evidence that Israel engages, via AIPAC, in seemingly successful manipulation of the American political process. What other country can pull this off? So, finally, we should realize that whatever religion anybody chooses to practice or not practice is their own business. But, when a country behaves like a bunch of thugs and with impunity, criticizing that country does not equate with criticism of whatever relgion most people in that country choose to practice. As for Mel, I think it is indeed unfortunate that the link between Israel and Judaism has become so strong. So, as it is with so many, when Israel and its gangster rulers ramp up bombing or cordoning off somebody elses land or country, it is natural to make an association between the loudly proclaimed relgious affiliation of the country and its ruling elite. However, this association is really a fallacy. Once again, a poitical entity, a nation state, is not a religion.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How to resolve longstanding, universal victim consciousness
Posted by: ncg96773 on Jan 27, 2007 9:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mel Gibson, apparently, knows what it is like to grow up in a religiously oppressive environment. Assuming, that humans created religions to explain and bare the unbareables that life presents living things with, religious faith poses as an ointment, an artery clip, if you will, to stop the hemorriging and annihilation of one's own species and sanity. All religions have that in common, in my opinion.
That said, if one removes the religious context of Gibson's slurs, one can detect the pain of a mind riddled with feelings of victimhood underneath. And it is exactly those feelings of utter victim consciousness, that make him zoom in on the Jews, for they share those intense, and often extremely destructive emotions. So, instead of focusing on 'Gibson versus the Jews', I view them as very similar. Both are pointing their fingers at an supposedly opposing party, claiming that the other brings only death and destruction to their people and the earth at large.
Helen Thomas recently said in an interview with Amy Goodman, that the Palestinian story has not been told yet. She said, that if people would stop to hate and fight, they would be stunned by the similarities they share, rather than narrowly focusing on the differences.
Mel Gibson points his finger at the Jews as culprits, when it is his own father, he's been suffering under his whole life. The Jews point their finger at the Palestinians and Arabs at large and call them subhuman, just like the Nazi's did with the Jews, when it is the last round of unresolved horrors and justified victim feelings they are actually suffering from today. Putting someone else in your shoes, making them feel all the bad feelings we don't like to feel, is no way to resolve longstanding inner turmoil. It is just a detour, an elongation of pain, and no way to present the real wrongs, that humans have been committing against each other without skipping a beat.
Having been sexually abused by the people that raised me and were supposed to love and protect me, I know what it feels like to reconnect with mountains of unresolved feelings of utter powerlessness and victimconsciousness within me.
Life is full of triggers, that can easily set off old unresolved emotions and flood the mind with seemingly unexplainable
bouts of rage and despair, especially when one has been raised in families with heavy loads of unresolved rage and grief.
It is this unresolved rage and grief that sets the stage for all wars in the world. In times like these, when conflict translates into bombs without hesitation, finger pointing becomes obsolete. We are all Jews and we are all Moslems, Christians, Mel Gibson's, etc.
Hate is a human response to a wounded inner self. And just like the leak in a roof is hardly ever to be found where the rain actually gets in, the trigger that sets off a strong emotion is very likely far removed from its true origin.
Knowing that, war and hate should never be an option, for it aids in the further denial of the real underlying condition:
universal, longstanding victim consciousness on all sides.
Let us drop our shields, therefore, and define us based on our similarities and not on our differences, that pain just might have put there to begin with.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

There are a LOT of Stupid People Here
Posted by: Kym525 on Jan 27, 2007 10:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
on both sides of the political spectrum.

Let me spell it out for you people. Opposition to certain policies in Israel is NOT anti-semitism. We oppose those same marginalizing policies here in the U.S. Demanding answers from Israel about where our hard-earned taxpayer money is being spent is NOT anti-semitism. Looking deeper into the entire Israel/Palestine situation and finding some uncomfortable truths is NOT anti-semitism.

Anti-semitism is when you absolutely, positively LOATHE not just the state of Israel, but JEWS as a whole. It's when you're willing to exterminate an entire group of people for no other reason than their being JEWS.

What this article is talking about is a group of asshats who cloak themselves in religious idolatry and preach HATE. They have made unholy ties with hate groups who also practice bigotry and yet we're not supposed to look deeper into their aims because people assume that it's being "pro-Jewish"?

What kind of crack are you idiot boxes smoking?

The straw-man arguments don't work here.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

GEMS
Posted by: Gerald on Jan 27, 2007 10:43 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gibson et al just goes to prove that it's easier to hate than to love others.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WHERE DOES MEL GET HIS ANTISEMITISM?
Posted by: BABYFOOD on Jan 27, 2007 10:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I THOUGHT HE GOT IT FROM THE SNIDELY ANTI SEMITIC STANCE OF ALTERNET IN ALL COMMENTS REGARDING ISRAEL. OK...SO ANTI ISRAEL STANCE. I'D ACCEPT SOME CRITICSM OF ISRAEL IF IT WAS BALANCED WITH SOME REALIZATION OF THE FACT THAT THIS NASCENT NATION WAS UNDER ATTACK SINCE IT'S INCEPTION. ONE MILLION AND A HALF ISLAMIC PEOPLE LIVE WITHIN ISRAEL'S ACCEPTED BORDERS IN PEACE. HOW MANY JEWS LIVE WITHIN AN ARABIC NATION IN PEACE.

YEP MEL, YOU MUST READ ALTERNET.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ultimately, The Blame Is Ours Folks
Posted by: MAD on Jan 27, 2007 11:02 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's increasingly apparent that Alternet is dancing around the vervboten topic of anti-semitism - both real and imagined. What with today's rundown of Mel Gibson's upbringing and yesterday's burning question: "Is There A Kosher Way To Criticize The Israel Lobby?", one can only assume that Alternet staff is trying to delineate the boundaries between valid enquiry and hate-fueled propaganda. The answer is sure to be complex, but in our rush to condemn Israel, we have lost sight of one very important variable in the US-Israeli dynamic.

The widely held belief that the Israeli lobby shapes the political landscape of this country is assuredly above scrutiny. I don't have any problem whatsoever assigning a large degree of blame where it is most certainly due, but to be fair, the greatest share of blame rests with us and our government.

Israel has realized many great successes in convincing mainly WASP politicians that it is in their best interest to promote, and indeed perpetuate the oppressive and bellicose policies of the state of Israel. I'm tired of being subjected to the shrill cacophony of so many finger-pointers, the majority of whom support politicians like Clinton, Obama or any number of Democratic leaders who willingly accept AIPAC succor. Even Nancy “I want to express my appreciation to AIPAC for what you do to strengthen the US-Israel relationship” Pelosi seems to stump for them on occasion.

To a greater degree, WE THE PEOPLE are responsible as we continue to elect politicians who rely heavily on Jewish/Zionist/Israeli money to catapult them into office. Just when are we going to pull out of our reality tv stupor and realize that our entire political, no capitalist, system has softened to the point of decadence, and ultimately, ruin?

It's a condition of human nature to shift blame unto others, and in this instance, there is some validity in doing so, but the two decision makers at the top of the food chain are not Jewish, but rather greedy, warmongering Christians who happen to find common cause with Israel. I seem to recall numerous Democrats voting to go to war as well. I wonder what kind of promises were made to them in the way of campaign contributions? Our political system, and all the avarice it represents, is implicated in this fiasco. White, Christian men and women are mostly to blame for giving in to the incessant pressure of the Israeli lobby. I mean, what choice do you really have when someone is simultaneously twisting your arm and tucking C-notes into your G-string, right?

Sure, keep the pressure on Israel but remember who ultimately makes the decisions in this country. I don't want to hear any Zionist/Masonic/NWO conspiracy theories (rwa) as to how we've been hypnotized by "Jew trickery and dark magic". They [Israeli lobby] are playing us like a baby grand and we're dancing to the music . . .

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

You haven't seen anything yet!
Posted by: ignition on Jan 27, 2007 11:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Israel wages a nuclear war against Iran and we are destroyed because of it Jewish blood will run in the streets of Amerikkka. Payback is a bitch!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Not all Jews are to Blame for One Jew's Crime
Posted by: edgar_michel on Jan 27, 2007 11:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In all of this discussion, Rothschild come to mind. One Family htat managed to control a significant portion of the worlds finances. Rothschilds were not Jews in the snese that they were of the tribes of Israel described in the Torrah. They were a people of Eastern European origin that had converted to Judaism centuries earlier.

With regard to the United States, the first Bank of the United States was chartered by the Bank of England which was controlled by Nathan Mayor Rothschild at the time. Just becase the Rothschilds were at one time synomimous with big banking, doesn't make all Jews the financial marianettes of the world.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Wake up or Zionism will sink us all!
Posted by: helgerry on Jan 27, 2007 12:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The zionists are currently doing some machiavellic machinations behind the scene in order to get the US into a war with Iran (in other words to do the job for them AGAIN!). It's time we put our own interests FIRST and stop fighting other people's wars... The goal is not just to cripple Iran's nuclear ambitions but eventually to destroy its powerful military just like they did with Saddam by tricking him into invading Kuwait and subsequently crushing his army (never mind we sold him most of the weapons in the first place). I agree we have to take the Shia threat seriously but ironically we gave them an enormous boost by getting rid of the only leader who could keep them in check: Saddam! Yes, he was a tyrant but by removing him from power we opened the floodgates of hell in the region as we're about to find out. The zionists can also be stupid sometimes...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It's Not The Jews...
Posted by: tommytime on Jan 27, 2007 12:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Jews are unwitting pawns in the whole charade - just as the US population is. The problem is with the governments, not the people. Can we at least agree on that?

The US and Isreali governments are so obviously controlled by the same forces (notice how they both protect each other and stick together all the time?).

It is probably impossible to figure out exactly who is in control, but if you think it is George Bush then we need to talk. The true power is more likely to come out of some of that European old money in my opinion (for what it's worth).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: It's Not The Jews... Posted by: meg in iowa
» Compassion crap Posted by: ssmit355
» RE: It's Not The Jews... Posted by: edsmith
The Israeli Government is what is worrying, not "The Jews"
Posted by: ZPaul on Jan 27, 2007 2:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is possible for a country to be governed by leaders that do not represent the majority´s interests. (Look at the U.S.A.)

I think something similar has happened in Israel. My concern is about the government of Israel and its oppression of the Palestinians, not "The Jews" as a people, a significant number of whom oppose the government´s policies. One of my hopes is that this country´s government will change in the future.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

And there was Mel
Posted by: willymack on Jan 27, 2007 3:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I make it a rule to think of Hollywood personalities as no more real than the 2-dimensional image on a movie or TV screen. I enjoy their talents more that way. So, what makes Mel Gibson a foaming anti Semite? I've got this subtle, learned, theory, understood only by the intellectual elite, and it's this: He's a bubbleheaded jerk.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Jesus would be very pissed at Mel.....
Posted by: gvjensen on Jan 27, 2007 4:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean think about it, Jesus was about love and not killing and hate. Jesus was about open dialog, not secretive ritualistic dogma.

Jesus was about making a difference, regardless of social or economic stature.

Jesus would bitch slap Mel .... and will (afterall, eternity is a long time).

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Amazing amount of polemics on this thread
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jan 27, 2007 4:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually, I've never looked up that word, but just did:

polemic
a. disputatious; pertaining to argument n. dispute; aggressive attack or refutation. polemicist, n. polemics, n. art of controversy.

One of the things I find disturbing about the "blame the Jews & Israel for the war in Iraq" notion is that it's a mimic of the historical response to Germany's loss in World War I, the downfall of the Weimar Republic, and the rise of "National Socialism" and Nazi Germany. The war reparations imposed by France and Britain certainly played a large role in this as well, but Hitler's theme was always that "the German people were stabbed in the back by an international Jewish conspiracy that sabotaged our war effort".

The people who were responsible for the war in Iraq were not "the Jews" or "the Democrats" but a cabal of right-wing powermongers who stole the 2000 election; namely Bush, Cheney, Rice, Rumsfeld - people with long-standing ties to the centers of corporate power in the United States - oil, coal, telecom and pharmaceutical concerns - i.e. Enron, Exxon, Bechtel, Halliburton/KBR, etc. Quite frankly, it is remarkably similar to the pre-World War II rise of fascism in a number of respects - for example, the emphasis on secretive financial ownership (SEC rules on hedge funds reporting were recently overturned by right-wing Bush judicial appointees in Washington, for example) - as well as the rise of gigantic private military contractors with extensive ties to the right wing alliance.

We just have to put a stop to it, or it will get much worse - that's all there is to it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The real shame was a last chance opportunity missed
Posted by: xbj on Jan 27, 2007 8:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The real shame is this entire episode could have been used to educate the public on the differences between Judaism, a religion and culture, and Zionism, a political imperialistic movement consisting of misled rank and file from all religions and top elite from false religions, no religion, and Luciferians.

IF Mel had simply come out and apologized and said "I'm sorry; I meant Zionist when I said Jews, and here's why I believe what I believe..." the entire affair would have not just become a golden opportunity, it would have opened a bright media ray of light into the darkest most blackest secret in the 20th, and now the 21st centuries.

A secret that will end up being the end of the US, and might well bring about the end of the entire world, if not for Divine intervention.

Maybe Mel doesn't even know the difference himself, and that would be truly the saddest thing of all. Or maybe the false equating of Zionism with true Judaism caused him to blame an entire people. Either would be woefully wrong and a great pity. Judaism and Jews are no more responsible for Zionism than the majority of the American People are responsible for all the babies Bush has butchered.

At any rate, the end result from Gibson's lapse and apparent ignorance is Zionism wins, and remains hidden like a cancer in Judaism and in Fundamentalist Christianity.

And a malignant and horrific and FATAL cancer it indeed is.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Semite and Jewish are NOT THE SAME THING!
Posted by: Setnakt on Jan 27, 2007 10:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I hate to burst so many's bubble but the real biggots are the Jews, as they claim exclusive rights to the entire Semite race! Nothing could be more OBVIOUSLY false, yet for *some reason* no one questions this white hot bullshit. Were this true anyone "born a Jew" would be compeled by some unseen magical force to be of the Jewish religion, and no non-Semites (like Sammy Davis Jr.) could ever become Jewish! Were this true other races would also have "official religions". So what is the official religion of the African people? How about the Asian peoples? The whites? The answer SHOULD be obvious, there is none. Religion is a matter of CHOICE while an entire race can't be somehow "owned" by any single group, religious or otherwise. The Jews are no special case, not any "choosen race", which is where the whole "master race" crap comes from, a Karmatic rebound upon the origional racists the Jews. A Semite is a person of Middle Eastern racial decent, be they Jewish, Islamic, Athiest, Xian, or Kemetian as in my case (&/or anything else as per the choice of the indivual). Semite is a RACE not a religion! And Jewish is a religion not a race! The 2 are NOT interconnected except in Zionist fantasyland! What race are the Muslems and others of us of the Middle Eastern nations? The "Mud race" I suppose? We just don't exist I guess and can't possiable be of the same SEMETIC race as the "all powerful" Jews, despite the fact it's a genetic reality we are all the same race! But medical science, like actual history obviously means nothing to the Zionist media and brainwashed public.

I'm so beyond sick and tired of this Zionist victom-mentality bullshit! These terrorist war criminals take our lands and mass murder innocent women and children at a rate that would make Adolf Hitler and the WWII Nazi war machine vomit yet THOSE racist bastards are the "victoms", and never questioned or challenged, lest one be labled a "anti-semite". Give me a fucking break! Mel Gibson is no better, no biggoted racists are worth spit. But that in no way excuses the genosidal purges of Isreal. And even the non-Isreali Jews every year push their "Passover" slander on my people and THEIR OWN ANCESTORS the origional first Semites, the ancient Egyptian people and us their modern Egyptian Semetic Kemetian decendants! There never were any "Jewish slaves" in ancient Egypt, no records whatsoever from any neighboring nation exist that support this slander. Additionaly generational slavery (400+ years) is against the codes of Ma‘at, the foundation of Kemetian (ancient Egyptian) law! Never mind also that there is absloutely NO evidence of any "Hebrew tribes" or people before Moses, or should I say Pharaoh Akhenaton IV who upon his excile for trying to outlaw the gods of Khem (for his false god Ahken/Aten [Enlil in Sumerian]~latter known as jehovia) only then became known as Moses (which itself is from the ancient Egyptian "rightful heir"), and his followers who left with him became known as the Jews. They created historical lies fabricating the fictional Abraham and others non-existant "patrarchs" to hide their past, not as "slaves" but as the very Pharaoh and ruleing upper class of Egyptian royalty itself! Their slander and lies exceded anything the Holocaust denyers could fabricate. But I guess turnabout is fair play. Every single inch on what's now Isreal was origionaly a part of MY ancient Egyptian ancestors homeland those bloody thugs stole. And they continue to massacre my (and their) relatives to steal more and more land. Yet THEY are the "victoms"? Again, give me a break!

Below (see replys to self) is my sourced essays both on the real orgins of the Jews as well as their false "god". So any idiot here that wishes to scream "anti-semite" at me, stick it up your ass, us Kemetian Egyptians ARE the origional Semites from which the dirty murderious Jews came from! Save your ignorant hyprocracy for the idiots.
Reverend Setnakt

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Essay #1; The Real 'Devil' Posted by: Setnakt
» Hmmm. Posted by: ssmit355
» RE: Hmmm. Posted by: Setnakt
» RE: Hmmm. Posted by: Soco
You all missed the real issue
Posted by: ReallyBearish on Jan 28, 2007 9:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anti-Semitism is actually the cannary in the mine. It's a sure fire indicator or social and economic breakdown. Look at the economy for the real cause.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Carter and Swarm by Israel Shamir
Posted by: rwa on Jan 28, 2007 9:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...In my native Siberia, in its short and furious summer you may see swarm of gnats attack a horse, each tiny bloodsucker eager for his piece of action. In a while, the blinded and infuriated animal rushes headlong in mad sprint and soon finds its death in the bottomless moors. The Jews developed the same style of attack. It is never a single voice arguing the case, but always a mass attack from left and right...

Each attacker is as tiny and irrelevant as a single gnat, but as swarm they are formidable. Observe them separately: Dershowitz, an advocate of torture and of hostage killing, a plagiarist who never was elected to any position of authority and commands no respect, demands to debate the president. It is indeed beyond chutzpah; but Dershowitz is supported by other Jews in prime positions and his ridiculous demand is seconded by university and media until this thieving nonentity gets equal time on TV to present “his case”. Another gnat is a Deborah Lipstadt, a nonentity brought forth by the Washington Post. Others are even smaller than these two, for instance 14 Jews who gave up their positions at Carter Center. If they would not keep media in their hands, they wouldn't be heard but by their spouses.

Their technique is quite simple. They switch the focus onto the personality of their adversary. Thus, instead of discussing apartheid in Israel, we discuss Jimmy Carter, whether he is an antisemite. The correct answer is “irrelevant”: Carter’s love of Jews or lack of it has no bearing on the question of apartheid in Palestine. Likewise, if we discuss the situation in Bosnia or Kosovo, we do not go into our sentiments towards Serbs, Albanians or Croats. But Jews are different...

I also tried the taste of swarm attack. During the Tsunami disaster in Thailand I discovered that the Jewish undertakers, Zaka, forced the Thais to delay mass burial of victims for a day or two, despite the real and immediate danger of epidemic diseases, in order to avoid a real calamity: holy Jewish bodies may be inadvertently buried together with the goyim. I was told so by the members of the Zaka team who were quite proud of their feat. I wrote about it. It was republished by a few sites. Then, a British Jew named Manfred Ropschitz began an ad hominem campaign – against me. Other Jews joined the fray, discussing whether I am a Jew, or a “Swedish-Russian Nazi antisemite”, as if it has any bearing on the tsunami story. Instead of shrugging it off, other supporters of Palestine switched to this piquant subject. They carried their discussion from The Times to their email lists, until eventually, another Jewish “antizionist” commented with deep satisfaction: “Shamir is marginalised and brought into disrepute”.

Ropschitz did not try to disprove the story, for the story was true. He wrote: “With an army of journalists crawling over the Tsunami story I'd expect to have heard such shocking news by now – if it's true. I am a journalist and I don't believe it.” No, gentlemen, you won’t hear a true story if it is not acceptable to Ropschitzes of this world. They will hunt you to the far-away corner of the world, and there are not many people who care to risk their well-planned attack. The Ropschitzes, these quite ordinary Jews who fully identify with their community, are the key to the swarm attack. There are many Jewish media-lords, even more editors, but it is the Ropschitzes that clinch the party line. These willing executioners of our freedom, the foot-soldiers of the media lords, automatically defend “the Jews” i.e. the organised Jewish community at any price. Ordinary human beings of Jewish origin can be of any opinion. Likewise, ordinary Americans do not decide whether their country will attack Iran or not. But Bush and Cheney alone can’t fight Iraqi war, and the Jewish media lords would be powerless without their willing executioners of freedom.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

anti semetisim in the Lutheran Church--Missouri synod
Posted by: zooeyhall on Jan 28, 2007 11:34 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only Catholic offshoots are guilty of this, certain "mainline" protestant churches are as well.
I live in the rural midwest, where I am a farmer and was brought up in the traditional small-town churches so idealized by many. In the local area where I live (Nebraska), there are large numbers of Lutherans of German ancestry (of which I am one), and belong to the Missouri Synod branch of the Lutheran Church (of which I am not). This branch of Lutheranism is one of the largest in the upper midwest. And the anti-semitism here is open and blatant. Much of it is from members of this church. I have personally listened to several supposedly upstanding Missouri Synod clergy mouthing anti-semetic slurs openly. Remember, Martin Luther was one of the most vicious-anti semites, and he never made any apologies for it.

Fortunately, my dad left the church as a young man to become an ELCA Lutheran, which is much more tolerant. I am glad he did, because I am also gay---and the Missouri Lutheran church's stance on homosexuality is even more vituperative than it is on Jews.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

keep on hating, haters
Posted by: hatefreezone on Jan 28, 2007 3:58 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just a refresher on the posting guidelines...which prohibit "racist, sexist or other discriminatory or hateful language"

Does alternet ever bother to look at the unrelentingly hate-filled bile spewed towards the Jews by the haters on this thread?

Look yourselves in the mirror, haters. Don't dress up your arguments. You are irrational, unbalanced, spewing haters, nothing more, and you need to live with your festering loathing.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

keep on hating, haters
Posted by: hatefreezone on Jan 28, 2007 3:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just a refresher on the posting guidelines...which prohibit "racist, sexist or other discriminatory or hateful language"

Does alternet ever bother to look at the unrelentingly hate-filled bile spewed towards the Jews by the haters on this thread?

Look yourselves in the mirror, haters. Don't dress up your arguments. You are irrational, unbalanced, spewing haters, nothing more, and you need to live with your festering loathing.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» No Better Way? Posted by: Hal
» RE: No Better Way? Posted by: yellow
» RE: No Better Way? Posted by: Hal
» RE: No Better Way? Posted by: yellow
Thank you
Posted by: bluebird on Jan 28, 2007 5:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well Thank you for saying this. I posted a response to one of the above postings, pretty much saying the same thing. Thank you!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The Term Anti-Semitism is Racist and Points to a Larger and Disregarded Problem
Posted by: american on Jan 29, 2007 5:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When it comes to bigotry against Jews, "we" have a special term: anti-Semitism. When the racism is against any other group, the terms "we" use the terms bigotry, racism, etc. Now, Semites do not just include Jews, they include several groups in the Middle East, including the Arabs. The term anti-Semitism, however, only surfaces when the ostensible racism is against Jews. Does not this ring of certain exclusivity? Would the Jews themselves, then, not appropriately be labeled anti-Semitic? They continually war against other Semites, despite what is written in their law. When Arabs are maligned in this country or others, what Jews are to be found despairing this "Anti-Semitism?" This is hypocrisy and hypocrisy makes people angry.

We are at war with Iraq, a country the American Power Elite set up and then knocked down. The reason there is an Arab World war alliance in this country between Jews, many of whom despise Jesus Christ and believe His followers fools, and Evangelical Christians, whom hate the Jews for their guile and discount of Christian faith on even so much as democratic or secular-ethical-fairness grounds is because Jews have all the power! When did we hear of “NASCAR dads” prior to the run up of the 2000 elections and the installation of that clown-puppet that started a war with Israel’s enemy neighbor, Iraq? Answer: Never.

The answer to the first part of the above question is because the Jews have a stranglehold on the media. The answer to the second part is that Jews believe in “an eye for an eye” and hold such concepts and forgiveness and grace in low regard. This is why politicians, corporations (corruptions) and media outlets tiptoe around or pander to Jewish issues [Jews ostensibly being from 1 to 5% of the US population] while at the same time disregarding and disrespecting such countries as England, France, and Germany the descendants of whom have much greater numbers of people in America (and have had much greater numbers of their descendants die for America). I recently saw an obituary for the mayor of Jerusalem in the World section of my local paper; I cannot say that I have ever seen one for the mayors of Madrid, London, Berlin, Rome, Athens, Warsaw, Madrid, Paris or any other major European capital for that matter.

It’s a fallacy that the “press” is weak and timid. They have tremendous wealth and resources. They are diabolical and deceptive. If you push the finger that pulls the trigger, you pull the trigger. With the Iraq war, trade liberalization, lack of careful human, other-biological, chemical, and environmental protection, mass immigration, predatory lending, and a whole mess of other problems the American people indicated they did not want to have, the American people have been lied to as to intent and results. The medium by which we are informed of the factuality, relevance, picture, and status of the items above is the Press. This is deception and deception makes people angry.

When we hear of the atrocities of the Second World War, how is it that we only hear of the holocaust and the “six million Jews” that were killed and never of the millions of people of different countries that were killed as well? It is not a good thing to kill, albeit it was a declaration of war. All the nations were warring against one another. What made the Jews different is that they didn’t fight back. It is massively hypocritical for war to only be okay if your ally is battling your enemy but not if you are. The Jews believe they are threading the needle and getting by within God’s law, but in truth, they have lost it.

Either many of those who have concerns about Jewish schemes are crazy conspiracy buffs or some of what is discussed in the “anti-Semitic” milieu is to SOME extent true. If something is to some extent true, IT IS WORTHY OF DISCUSSION.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» HATE to LOVE & JUSTICE Posted by: Hal
» RE: HATE to LOVE & JUSTICE Posted by: yellow
Who cares
Posted by: rht79 on Jan 29, 2007 8:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if all jews aren't semites? I think we all all know what is meant by anti-semite. Every thread regarding jews gets at least 5 people who feel compelled to make this clarification. I think we all get it now but what does it have to do with the heart of the issue? Enough with the semantics. Thank you.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Surprised at responses
Posted by: davmills on Jan 29, 2007 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Most of the responses to this article seem unpleasant and misinformed.
Where is any Jewish conspiracy? Jews discriminate against each other as well as being discriminated against. The Falashas are still having trouble integrating into Israeli society a couple of decades after being airlifted. Israel has a race problem.
German Jews in North America were embarassed at Russian Jews who emigrated 100 years ago to the United States. They felt their poverty and ghettoization would reflect poorly on the integrated, educated minority.
The state of Israel was partly created using violent tactics that were then and could be now called terroristic. The military seems to be allowed free rein there (though the Israeli press can criticise this).
However: anti-semitic literature is sold openly in some Arab capitals, including "The Protocols . . . " Some Arab landowners found it convenient to sell land they didn't want to Jewish settlers in the 1920s, 30s. Many of those Jews had left Europe due to rising anti-semitism.
Jews living in Arab countries were harassed to the point of repression after the creation of Israel. For example: the 3000-member Jewish community in Syria were kept in a ghetto and only allowed to leave (to return to) the country under very strict conditions. I believe most of that community were smuggled out, partly by bribing Syrian officials.
In sum: faults rest on both sides. Israel is nominally a democracy that acts as a police state. Some of its immediate neighbours (e.g. Syria) are probably worse.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ok, now I am distressed.
Posted by: mke_jim on Jan 29, 2007 9:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author states, "for the vast majority of Catholics, the existence of an anti-Semitic, sedevacantist subculture is highly distressing."

As a life-long Catholic, I think it is more accurate to say that its existance is news to most of us. We don't run into this subculture at our churches or at parent-teacher confrences at our kids' Catholic schools.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

it's all about the jesus movie
Posted by: gerdhansel on Jan 29, 2007 11:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Correct me if I’m wrong here, but Mel Gibson is guilty of one, count ‘em, one drunken anti-Semitic outburst.

The father was a Holocaust denier, not the son.

Ah but he did direct a very Catholic passion play, THE PASSION OF THE CHRIST. And he was viciously raked over the coals by a lot of very prominent Jewish Americans among the media elites.

And only AFTER this public scourging does Mad Mel slam down a few too many Margaritas and allow all that simmering anger to spill out at a California Highway Patrol Officer.

So, before he makes the Jesus movie and gets slammed by half the liberal Jews in Hollywood and New York, Mad Mel never said a drunken, unkind word about any Hebrew anywhere.

But AFTER his Jesus movie gets trashed he gets drunk ONCE and suddenly he’s a raving anti-Semite and all his films become right-wing propaganda?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I knew what I would find here
Posted by: Ellen G on Jan 29, 2007 12:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and I am so disappointed, but not surprised.

mention the word "jew' and the jew haters pounce, regardless of the topic, even one with historical relevance, such as this one. Can't say anything critical without being called and anti-semite? oh please. "the Jews" this, "the jews" that - which jews? When you start with talk of "them", whoever 'they' are, you are making generaliztions that you would not want used against your own group.

Wake up, folks, you've drunk the koolaid if you fall for this "The jews are to blame for everything wrong in the world crap" Clear your head - learn to listen as well as to s[pew hate

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A little something on Rachel Corey...
Posted by: yellow on Jan 29, 2007 4:33 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rachel Corey was a courages human rights activist and was herself not anti-Jewish. I personally met Rachel's parents at a dinner that they gave a slideshow/talk at which was hosted by a Jewish peace group in Chicago called Not In My Name. They were adament that Rachel had many Jewish friends with whom she was politically active. One of them was a Jewish women from the UK in whose arms she died after being crushed in Gaza by an Israeli bulldozer. I'm quite sure that the rabid anti-semitism expressed "on her behalf" would be found to be very repulsive by her if she were alive as I know it is found to be by her parents. If we are to all solve this and other pressing global problems together its time to drop the hate.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

loony tunes
Posted by: insulaparadigm on Jan 29, 2007 9:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mel Gibson defenders! C'mon the guy made a movie where he jumped around in women's tights being "cute" - and read their minds or something. His movie career parallels his mental plummet. He and loon ball followers should be sent to the thunder dome for good. Oh and last I checked it was WASPS mainly trying to run the world and starting wars etc (it's ok I'm one lol ) Protocols, Illuminati... isn't there a comet to chase or some aliens to find instead? Or is this another bad Gibson movie?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: loony tunes Posted by: yellow
I think I've heard this all before
Posted by: opeluboy on Jan 30, 2007 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sorry, the perpetual victim thing is wearing thin, as is obvious by the responses on this page. One cannot demand sympathy while supporting genocide, as MOST Jews do.

Do us all a huge favor and get over yourselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: I think I've heard this all before Posted by: insulaparadigm
» RE: I think I've heard this all before Posted by: insulaparadigm
» RE: I think I've heard this all before Posted by: insulaparadigm
Religious Intolerance
Posted by: plaintalker on Jan 31, 2007 4:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Traditional Catholics are not joyless, unhappy automations- many weep with joy upon finding a traditional church in which to worship or a traditional priest who upholds the sacredness of the Mass and by his own upright and moral life (traditionalists don't tolerate pedophiles!) give us the Mass that is as it has been stated 'the Mass of all time!". We simply believe what the Church has taught traditionally until the radical changes that occurred with Vatican II, which have been devastating for the Catholic Church and the source of many of its current problems. Vatican II with its irreligious and Freemasonic elements do try to hide the unpopular truths that a Catholic knows. He knows that Jewish people were the main culprits in the Crucifixion of Christ- any cursory reading of the Gospels concerning the Passion shows that. There is even a forerunner to this desire to murder, in the story of Herod and the 3 Wise Men- while the latter were Gentiles and went to Bethlehem to find and worship a Lord that they did not yet know, Herod, who as the Jewish king along with Jewish scribes and teachers, sought to take his life. Even the Archdeacon Stephen, Jewish by birth but a Christian and an apostle was himself the first martyr and martyred not by Romans but by Jewish people. The machinations of Vatican II can't change that and it was not right of them to ever try to change that. Traditional Catholicism wants to go back to the true teachings, besides the above, it also does teach us that Islamism and pagan religions are wrong. It does stress that heresy (non-Catholic Christian religions) have errors- that there is right and wrong belief; what is to be done about the wrong? Pray for the people. A traditional Catholic wants the Mass, the Sacraments and the teachings of the Church about Non-Christians and non-Catholic Christians to return to exactly as they were before Vatican II, that is the norm-Vatican II, with Popes kissing the Koran, praying in Synogaugues is NOT the norm, it is NOT Catholicism.

This article only adds fuel to those anti-Christians (as well as anti-Religious) who want outlaw all expressions of religious belief, EXCEPT the ones that they prefer- ie; like totalitarian China, Vietnam or North Korea. Is that what you're advocating, that if we don't follow in the path of the Vatican II church that we are therefore "anti-semites" and should be outlawed and prevented from having our beliefs? In the United States, we are allowed to have freedom of religion and we are also allowed to have opinions about others that maybe unpleasant to some. Mel Gibson has never advocated physically hurting anyone although many have sought HIS life for his words and his beliefs -so leave us alone if you don't like us. Mel may have his own church on his own property closed to strangers but traditional chapels are open to all who are will to enter in a respectful manner- no throwing of used toiletries (a la the militant feminists and gays) will be tolerated as this interferes with our freedom to worship- a freedom that we STILL have here in this Country!

It has been said that Orthodox Judaism and the Talmud have anti-Christian bigoted teachings. Are you going to then try to outlaw them too? Or is it okay for them to have their beliefs simply because they are Jewish and Catholics aren't? Or is it perhaps the new trend that anyone who has any religious belief that anyone dislikes for whatever reason in this country should be condemned and gotten rid of? Good going! Perhaps you can make cozy with the North Koreans and the Red Chinese!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Some posters have found the discussion and some of the postings
Posted by: yellow on Feb 3, 2007 12:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
on this thread so disturbing that a special response from the ALTERNET staff is perhaps forthcoming. It don't mean to be so blatant in my request but I think there have been real problems with the issue of anti-semitism on this and other blogs and indeed in US society and the world for some time. I think that this is a deep seated problem that won't simply perish with the end of the Israeli occupation of Palestinian lands. Not meaning to belabor a constant phrase of mine but this is a deeply historic issue.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Paschn made a number of dumb statements...
Posted by: yellow on Feb 3, 2007 12:26 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
for one thing the legislator that accused Israel of being behind the Iraq War offered no proof and in a cowardly manner expected of someone making such a hateful accusation hid behind vague insinuation and didn't have the courage to come out and make the accusation unambiguously. He is, of course, wrong.

The quote from the Armenian means a lot. I can find dozens of old world morons that say bigotted crap. I can even find a few new worlders with those attitudes. Is this relevant? Does this prove something?

There are some sorryass haters on this thread.

How sad?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

sad
Posted by: insulaparadigm on Feb 4, 2007 2:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
disappointing that valid criticism of Israeli policy and right wing lobbying is going to be lost in a lot of posts that border or pass the antisemitism line. It's as though a bunch of right winger's came in and wrote some fake posts making the left look anti-Jewish.

Antisemitism should not be an excuse by right wingers defending any criticism of Israeli policy or influence on American foreign policy. It's too bad that most posts on this seem to support their case that people who do criticize Israeli policy are antisemitic.

Remember Yitzhak Rabin for crying out loud. The left is put down worldwide - look at almost every country on the globe.
We are losing and dumb excuses like "it's the Jews" only encourage the stupid black and white militaristic fascist thinking taking over our globe.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]