Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
Advertisement
  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement

Rights and Liberties

Torture Is Now Part of the American Soul

By George Monbiot, The Guardian. Posted December 18, 2006.


You might have imagined that every possible means of inflicting pain had already been devised. But never underestimate the human capacity for invention. United States interrogators have found a new way of destroying a human being.
121806story
Torture Has Come Home to Roost
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

After thousands of years of practice, you might have imagined that every possible means of inflicting pain had already been devised. But you should never underestimate the human capacity for invention. United States interrogators, we now discover, have found a new way of destroying a human being.

In early December, defense lawyers acting for Jose Padilla, a US citizen detained as an "enemy combatant," released a video showing a mission fraught with deadly risk -- taking him to the prison dentist. A group of masked guards in riot gear shackled his legs and hands, blindfolded him with black-out goggles and shut off his hearing with headphones, then marched him down the prison corridor.

Is Padilla really that dangerous? Far from it: his warders describe him as so docile and inactive that he could be mistaken for "a piece of furniture." The purpose of these measures appeared to be to sustain the regime under which he had lived for over three years: total sensory deprivation. He had been kept in a blacked-out cell, unable to see or hear anything beyond it. Most importantly, he had no human contact, except for being bounced off the walls from time to time by his interrogators. As a result, he appears to have lost his mind. I don't mean this metaphorically. I mean that his mind is no longer there.

The forensic psychiatrist who examined him says that he "does not appreciate the nature and consequences of the proceedings against him, is unable to render assistance to counsel, and has impairments in reasoning as the result of a mental illness, i.e., post-traumatic stress disorder, complicated by the neuropsychiatric effects of prolonged isolation." Jose Padilla appears to have been lobotomised: not medically, but socially.

If this was an attempt to extract information, it was ineffective: the authorities held him without charge for three and half years. Then, threatened by a supreme court ruling, they suddenly dropped their claims that he was trying to detonate a dirty bomb. They have now charged him with some vague and lesser offences to do with support for terrorism.

He is unlikely to be the only person subjected to this regime. Another "enemy combatant," Ali al-Marri, claims to have been subject to the same total isolation and sensory deprivation, in the same naval prison in South Carolina. God knows what is being done to people who have disappeared into the CIA's foreign oubliettes.

That the US tortures, routinely and systematically, while prosecuting its "war on terror" can no longer be seriously disputed. The Detainee Abuse and Accountability Project (DAA), a coalition of academics and human rights groups, has documented the abuse or killing of 460 inmates of US military prisons in Afghanistan, Iraq and at Guantanamo Bay. This, it says, is necessarily a conservative figure: many cases will remain unrecorded. The prisoners were beaten, raped, forced to abuse themselves, forced to maintain "stress positions," and subjected to prolonged sleep deprivation and mock executions.

The New York Times reports that prisoners held by the US military at Bagram airbase in Afghanistan were made to stand for up to 13 days with their hands chained to the ceiling, naked, hooded and unable to sleep. The Washington Post alleges that prisoners at the same airbase were "commonly blindfolded and thrown into walls, bound in painful positions, subjected to loud noises and deprived of sleep" while kept, like Jose Padilla and the arrivals at Guantanamo Bay, "in black hoods or spray-painted goggles."

Alfred McCoy, professor of History at the University of Wisconsin-Madison, argues that the photographs released from the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq reflect standard CIA torture techniques: "stress positions, sensory deprivation, and sexual humiliation." The famous picture of the hooded man standing on a box, with wires attached to his fingers, shows two of these techniques being used at once. Unable to see, he has no idea how much time has passed or what might be coming next. He stands in a classic stress position -- maintained for several hours, it causes excruciating pain. He appears to have been told that if he drops his arms he will be electrocuted. What went wrong at Abu Ghraib is that someone took photos. Everything else was done by the book.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: torture, human rights

George Monbiot is the author of 'Poisoned Arrows' and 'No Man's Land' (Green Books). Read more of his writings at Monbiot.com. This article originally appeared in the Guardian.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Rights and Liberties! Sign up now »

Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
gruesome
Posted by: rsaxto on Dec 18, 2006 12:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dick Cheney/George Bush are the most gruesome twosome in the history of the human race. IMPEACH THESE GRUESOME IMMORAL FREAKS BEFORE THEY COMPLETELY DESTROY ALL DECENCY IN THE USA AND LEAVE US WITH NO RESPECT ANYWHERE IN THE WORLD.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: gruesome Posted by: Abushite
» RE: gruesome Posted by: feduphoosier
» RE: gruesome Posted by: pingoo
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: gruesome Posted by: blitzmesser
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Halaby
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Info Extraction Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Info Extraction Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Info Extraction Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Info Extraction Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Info Extraction Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Info Extraction Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: Info Extraction Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: gruesome Posted by: rsaxto
» RE: gruesome Posted by: Conservasaurus
» And.... Posted by: Aim
Have Max Prisoners Challenged Methods of Punishment?
Posted by: edith on Dec 18, 2006 12:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under what law was Padilla and his fellow detainees(for life apparently) isolated and driven mad? That to me seems to be the impeachable kind of offense manyhere refer to. Because however it's alleged terrorists, Congress won't do anything about habeus or the method of punishment.

I thought McCain and some others had put a limit on torture of these "terrror" defendants. Is that true? Information respectfully requested.

As for Pelican Bay, etc., those prisoners should have had trials and punishments under US criminal law. These are the max prisons, reserved for the most violent. I'm not defending the effectiveness of isolation there, but I would think that because those prisoners(drug lords, gangbangers, neo-fascist Aryan Nations, Mob) are prisoners after actual trials and sentences, that they would carry "rights" into the max with them. Have they exercised their right, which the terrorists, so called, may not have, to appeal methods used against them? Have US courts sanctioned 24 hr 7 day a week isolation at the max Fed prisoners who have had a full trial and appeals?

Perhaps Monbiot has treated two separate classes of prisoners the same: one has no rights for judicial redress, the other does.

I can see where keeping major gang chiefs in isolation might be justified, but the government would have to present some evidence the prisoner was trying to run his gang or have people killed from prison.

We should not be naive; these things happen.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Yes, we do doubt Posted by: HeroesAll
» Wake up........... Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Go Back to Sleep Posted by: Sparks56
» RE: Go Back to Sleep Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Please define "abuse" Posted by: SteveB
God Bless America
Posted by: marxalot on Dec 18, 2006 3:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before it's too late.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: God Bless America Posted by: colinmeister
» RE: God Bless America Posted by: montims
» God-less America ... Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: God-less America ... Posted by: willymack
Are we a nation of sociopaths?
Posted by: shangrilalad on Dec 18, 2006 4:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that evil men have seized control of our government by illegal means and have condoned torture and genocide is frightening enough, but when you consider the astonishing lack of outrage by the American people, you begin to grasp the power of terrorism. We are ruled by homegrown terrorists, and we are terrified.

Either that, or we have been conditioned to be a nation of sociopaths.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Painful
Posted by: feduphoosier on Dec 18, 2006 4:53 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This makes me very sad... and very embarrassed. Are we the new Nazis? Is there no way to stop this sick behavior, and what does it say about us as a people? Notable quote:

If we were to judge the United States by its penal policies, we would perceive a strange beast: a Christian society that believes in neither forgiveness nor redemption.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Painful Posted by: montims
» RE: Painful Posted by: badkitty
» RE: Painful Posted by: aburritt
» RE: Painful Posted by: Basenjis
When will we put on trial these guards.
Posted by: douglashoyt on Dec 18, 2006 5:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The people doing this are sick sadist. They need to be held for trial at the International Criminal Court.

Our society has no place for such sick degenerate people as these guards and wardens.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Why the guards? Posted by: HeroesAll
Christian-Zionist Nazis
Posted by: mat38 on Dec 18, 2006 5:47 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is about what your country represents. Your government is run by fascist who will kill YOU if they want to and trust me, if you get in their way they will kill you.
Ane don't be fooled by the Democrats, we'll see just how many addtional troops go to Iraq in the buildup to try go to war with Iran. The Zionist can't survive in Israel without ongoing war. That's what has been happening in Palestine and now Iraq and Afghanistan. The Christiian crazies want Armageddon and you sit around and let them have it. Shame on all of you Americans for not rioting in the streets in protest.
You all pretend to be liberal but whan it comes to Zionist Israel and Aipac destroying the democracy you say you love - what? I hear nothing.
Torture? It's only the beginning my friends.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Christian-Zionist Nazis Posted by: Ivan_K
» More... Posted by: Ivan_K
» RE: More... (Nice) Posted by: aburritt
» RE: More... Posted by: mat38
Locoadele
Posted by: locoadele on Dec 18, 2006 5:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The treatment of those unfortunate persons who become part of President Bush’s "Extraordinary Rendition" operation would be considered "cruel and unusual punishment" and outlawed by our Constitution if such treatment were part of a sentence for an individual who had gone through our justice system and been convicted of a crime.
Instead it is meted out to people snatched away from their lives and spirited to other countries because there is a whiff of suspicion that they might possibly be connected in some way with a supposed terrorist. This is done without any sort of charges, access to legal counsel, or notification to their families that they have been taken.
In the effort to keep our democracy safe from attack by others we are destroying it ourselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The root of most evil...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Dec 18, 2006 6:09 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The article states: If we were to judge the United States by its penal policies, we would perceive a strange beast: a Christian society that believes in neither forgiveness nor redemption.

It is not really that strange. This is just more evidence for the most hypocritical evil force known to man...Religion.

Those of you who partake in such mythology and superstitious behavior are complicit in the debauchery taking place in our government today.

Or maybe you can talk to your Invisible Friend and see if he has time to intervene on the behalf of the tortured.

I believe the fork is almost ready to be inserted into this once proud country.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: The root of most evil... Posted by: Jersey Devil
» RE: The root of most evil... Posted by: Bbear41
» RE: The root of most evil... Posted by: montims
» RE: The root of most evil... Posted by: symcokid
» RE: The root of most evil... Posted by: markusmark
Hollywood's dark agenda
Posted by: albrechtkrausse on Dec 18, 2006 7:12 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is promoting the gov't police state by showing how torture and strong-arm police tactics "work" to fight both terrorism and regular street crime. Think of all the psychological operations that Hollywood has made over the years to brainwash youth. From the 'Dirty Harry' type of cop who must 'go beyond the law to extact justice' to the modern tv shows like "24" which show the benefit of torture in fighting 'terrorism'. Hollywood also enjoyed to revel in cruelty and violence in their films also desensitising youth to violence. There is nothing new about depravity and violence the only difference is that you have strong forces and an entire industry build upon promoting them as virtues.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hollywood's dark agenda Posted by: pingoo
Disgusting
Posted by: outlander55 on Dec 18, 2006 7:36 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
SICK! SICK! SICK!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Eew,.....IMPEACHMENT. How frightening!
Posted by: paschn on Dec 18, 2006 7:44 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Okay Drones. History lesson. There have been quite a few "leaders" impeached. By and of itself it's a slap on the wrist. Hell, some times they don't even forfeit there cushy retirement.
Now,... What you SHOULD be trumpeting for is seizure of ALL assets and turning them over to the WORLD COURT for prosecution and execution. This will have several far reaching implications to cowardly swine such as we have cursed ourselves and the world with;

It will show the world we truly ARE sorry for the evils wrought unto them because we as a "sheeple" could not or WOULD not reign in these swine and;

It will give the NEXT batch of greedy nefarious cowards something to THINK about as they watch the snivelling, screaming murderers being DRAGGED to the gallows to say goodby to their invention, (Hussein), before they TOO take that long drop into oblivion and judgement.

THEN NATIONALIZE energy and the MEDIA to ensure, (as the song so rightly put it decades ago ), "We don't get fooled again"!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Not just Hollywood
Posted by: shangrilalad on Dec 18, 2006 7:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our parents (victims themselves of brainwashing,) politicians, churches, schools, corporations, newspapers and mass media begin our indoctrination from the day we begin to learn English. We are deluged with propaganda and lies every day of our lives.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Not just Hollywood Posted by: rwa
?
Posted by: NoPCZone on Dec 18, 2006 8:30 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not recognize the country I live in and am not very encouraged by the recent election results. With all that has gone on, the people who perpetrated and enabled this madness are still within inches of power. The path our country is on will lead to our undoing as a nation.

http://www.amnesty.org/

http://www.amnestyusa.org/index.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: ?- Sad but true Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
Torture has always been a part of conquest of this and any land.
Posted by: symcokid on Dec 18, 2006 8:41 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Indigenous People of this "Great Turtle Island" didn't just willingly cede their Ancestoral Homeland over to the European Invaders anymore than the Palestinians are voluntarily giving up their Real Estate to Israel. That would be ludicrous and incomprehensible, torture always comes into play and it's not an afterthought.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Chain Gangs Posted by: rwa
Apparently we need our pound of flesh
Posted by: Bic Pentameter on Dec 18, 2006 8:54 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why did a jury convict Zacharia Moussaoui and sentence him to life in solitary confinement at the supermax in Florence Co? Because he wanted to carry out an act of terrorism. He flunked out of his flight training and thought it was preparation to highjack a plane and fly it to some middle east location. He didn't even know about 9/11.

After 5 years of torment he blurted out hateful statements while on the stand, and a jury wanted to punish someone. Family members of people who died were paraded through to tell how much he had hurt them. But it wasn't him.

Now we're gonna try José Padilla, the guy who originally was going to set off a radioactive 'dirty bomb' - except neither he nor anyone else he knew had any such material, only the idea to do such a thing. Anyone could dream about dropping a bomb on the capitol, but that doesn't mean they can pull it off.

I imagine that he'll get to live out his golden years in a box. Some of us will feel better about this, and say he deserves it after 9/11.

We also know that quite a few of the persons captured in Afghanistan were fingered by people who simply didn't like them, or wanted their property, or the small reward offered by the US. Maybe they deserve years of harsh confinement - 9/11, you know. We gotta kick some ass somewhere. Iraq, Iran, too, maybe.

If the liar in chief starts badmouthing Iran, people here will be ready to go as soon as he says 'lets get 'em!'. Any excuse will do - we like them all.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» WE????!!! Posted by: SteveB
» RE: We ARE the "enlightened minority" Posted by: AngryWhiteFemale
» OK, I'll be that Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: OK, I'll be that Posted by: mjabele
» RE: OK, I'll be that Posted by: LMNOP
» What do you want? Posted by: SteveB
» RE: WE????!!! Posted by: montims
» RE: WE????!!! Posted by: markusmark
American Torture: A Science or a Craft?
Posted by: Salty_Dog on Dec 18, 2006 9:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some commentators find Monbiot's prose inflammatory. I'd suggest that they walk a few steps in his shoes before they make that judgment. They might follow his lead to Alfred McCoy's book, "A Question of Torture".

McCoy documents an extensive history of research into the practice of torture, research promoted by the CIA. He argues that the scandals we've seen are consistent with the pattern of American research into sensory deprivation, self-inflicted pain, and other techniques. These techniques seem to bespeak a modernist interest in psychological science, perhaps making them palatable to the American policy establishment: witness all the discussion recently about whether we practice "torture" or just "aggressive interrogations". He describes a decades old wrangle in which American executives starting with Reagan have sought to modify interpretations of international torture law so as to allow for American practices. The same wrangle has recently emerged again between McCain and the administration, ending again with a agreement that torture, so long as it conforms to American researched practices, is either not a crime, or if it is a crime is not subject to prosecution in American courts.

Contrary to many anti-torture critics, McCoy notes that torture can work. The French made effective use of it when they sought to quell the insurrection in Algeirs. The problem, however, is that the information provided by torture is too unreliable when collected from a few individuals. An effective torture regime requires that information gleaned from an extensive program of torture, involving hundreds if not thousands of persons, is required to produce quantitities of information that can be cross-checked for consistencies. So, you must be willing to round up large numbers of people, without worrying much about guilt and innocence, torturing everyone in your haul with equal degrees of vigor, if you'd like to get some real usable results. Thus, the French crippled the insurrection by torturing a large portion of the male population of the Casbah. But they arguably lost the conflict because this program deligitimized their occupation, according to McCoy.

As Americans, we have to decide whether we can keep our soul while following the French practice in Algiers. McCoy challenges us, if we wish to take up the ugly torture tool, to make up our minds to do it effectively. We'll want to support research and training into torture, so that we may always be sharpening our skills; we'll need to consider applying torture to the frankly innocent mothers and children of our suspects--after all, that is at least as effective as torturing the suspects, and once we've jettisoned the notion of innocence, what's the bar? Well, you might well come away from McCoy's book with at least as much rage as Monbiot, even if you don't like being criticized by a Brit.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» algiers doesnt prove anything... Posted by: Annapurna1
» addendum... Posted by: Annapurna1
» What if he's correct Posted by: LMNOP
» where is the outrage? Posted by: Landbaron
God forgive us
Posted by: haleema on Dec 18, 2006 9:21 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Stay in prayer. Speak up. Tell them this is not what we are about !

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Global action against Guantánamo
Posted by: rwa on Dec 18, 2006 9:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
16 December 2006 marks the start of a series of protests across the world with renewed calls on the US government to close Guantánamo.

In January 2002, the US authorities transferred the first "war on terror" detainees – hooded and shackled – to the US Naval Base in Guantánamo Bay, Cuba.

Despite major international outcry and expert condemnation, hundreds of people of more than 30 nationalities continue to be held there: without charge, and with little hope of obtaining a fair trial. Though US authorities have repeatedly called the detainees "terrorists" and "killers", many have been released without charge.

US official investigators and detainees have reported torture and other ill-treatment, and the conditions of detention remain inhumane.

Enough is enough!

Guantánamo detainees must be released immediately unless they are to be charged and given a fair trial.

By either organizing your own event or supporting other activists worldwide in the run up to Guantánamo fifth anniversary, you can make a difference.

Join our month of activism! Find an event near you or contact your local AI office.

Remove space:

http://blogs.amnesty.org/blogs/close guantanamo/2006/12/14/1166123940000.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Global action against Guantánamo Posted by: Robert Veasey
Prison experience as a normal part of life by Ray Smith
Posted by: rwa on Dec 18, 2006 10:25 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
An interview with an inhabitant of the Balata Refugee Camp on the outskirts of Nablus

According to the International Red Cross (ICRC), approximately 8,500 inhabitants of the occupied Palestinian territories -- among them more than a hundred women and almost 500 children -- sit for "security reasons" in Israeli jails. ICRC found in a 1999 survey that almost half of all men below 40 years have been in Israeli prisons, many of them several times. Prison experience is no exception out here, it’s the norm. Many detainees are charged with throwing stones, intentions undermining the security of the Israeli state, armed resistance and other excuses made up by the Israeli regime. In the following interview, a recently released prisoner from Balata Refugee Camp in Nablus -- the largest camp in the occupied West Bank -- talks about his experiences and the difficulties that one faces during and after imprisonment.


Ray Smith: You've been in several Israeli prisons, Mohammad. What did you do before you were taken there?

Mohammad: I was supposed to have a good job in Ramallah at the Tourism Ministry. I have a certificate in tourism and hotel management from Jordan. The day I got arrested at Huwara checkpoint, I was supposed to go to Ramallah for the first day of work, but ended up in jail for 19 months.


Ray Smith: At this time, your family lived as well in Palestine, in Balata Refugee Camp. What did they do after you were arrested?

Mohammad: I was the only one who had a job and could earn money for the family. My brothers are small, so after I was arrested there was no one who could pay the rent for the home. Because of that they went back to Jordan, where we came from after Oslo...

Full interview(remove space):
http://electronic intifada.net/v2/article3607.shtml

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

These Articles (and the comments) are just sophistry
Posted by: MarcGarvey on Dec 18, 2006 10:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone tries to come up with a neater way to say the same things, pushing the infantile idea that these atrocities are new or have reached a new level.

No.

It's just that you guys are just now waking up. And there's nothing wrong with that, but do a little more waking up and get over yourselves. This stuff isn't new. Just new to you.

This goes for most commentors and certainly for the author.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If only
Posted by: Rod from Canada on Dec 18, 2006 1:12 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
those responsible for designing and/or carrying out these depraved activities would employ their brainpower (what there exists of it anyway) for positive, productive, and economically and socially useful purposes, such as finding more efficient solar or wind or tidal power generation methods, in our search for more sustainable lifestyles, just think how much better off this world would be.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Michael Rivero:
Posted by: rwa on Dec 18, 2006 1:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"In the rush to exploit the attacks on the World Trade Towers to destroy what is left of the Constitution, the media propagandists are trying to sell the people of the United States on the necessity of torture as a legitimate tool of law enforcement.

There are several reason why this latest atrocity must be stopped now.

No real American can tolerate or condone torture. It is forbidden by the Constitution, and only those who secretly wish for our nation to abandon its principles and Constitutional protections could ever support it.

Torture does not assist in the solving of crimes. Tortured people will say anything. Indeed it hardly need be pointed out that the millions of executions carried out by religious fanatics for the crime of witchcraft were primarily based on confessions extracted under torture.

Torture exists for one reason only, to terrorize a population that opposes a dictatorship.

What kind of a person would want such things to happen here in the United States, and why would you want to listen to them? Hitler supported state-sponsored torture. So did Stalin. Anyone who supports state-sponsored torture in the United States has to be the same class of human being. Why would a free people even give such monsters the time of day, let alone support the monsters and their wars-for-oil with their tax money or their children's lives?

Who are the terrorists? The media tells us it is Osama Bin Laden, but Osama bin Laden was trained and funded by the CIA. Osama's brother was George W. Bush's business partner in Texas.

The CIA is a terrorist organization. In 1985, authorized by William Casey, the CIA planted a car bomb near a mosque in Beirut to kill Sheik Mohammed Hossein Fadlallah, a muslim cleric. The bomb missed the Sheik but killed 80 people, including children. Now, if a car bomb that kills innocent people is a terrorist act, then the CIA is a terrorist organization. We can stop terrorism right here at home by disbanding the CIA."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

finally.
Posted by: JoshuaLudd on Dec 18, 2006 1:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have outdone Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. We have not succeeded them in scale, but we have in the depths to which one nation can sink and the scale of suffering that can be inflicted on a person without directly harming the body.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Unfortunately, Nothing New
Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 18, 2006 2:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Declassified Documents show the theoretical basis of what we've seen in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo... the gist is to make the person feel like their pain is their own fault.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» One more source Posted by: fanny666
torture doesn't work it has been proven
Posted by: Gregor on Dec 18, 2006 2:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that during WWII, the Americans treated their German prisoners with respect, kindness, caring and got more information just by being nice and cozy with their prisoners is documented time and time again. Only sick regimes resort to massive amounts of torture.

To ask from prior posters regarding laws: We exited the laws of this country when we introduced the PATRIOTic ACT, which has nothing to do with Patriotism. There are no laws governing these prisons or snatching up innocent people without representation. America has been asleep at the switch. We will crumble from our own idea of destruction.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Who cares?
Posted by: thehousedog on Dec 18, 2006 3:32 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
That's right - who is really caring about this? What is being done? Glad to see so many suggestions here on this page. Now what action will be done to rectify this situation. America is known for imprisonment of it's own citizens (the Japanese Americans during WWII) and now for this. What a proud legacy we have. 40 years from now, what we will tell our grand children about this time in our history? Will we speak from a position of shame or false victory?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

American torture....
Posted by: dikaiosyne on Dec 18, 2006 3:54 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The only real torture these days is the constant whine of liberals that think that putting a cover over a person's head amounts to cruel and unusual torture. I wish you folks would develop a sense of self defense for yourselves and this nation before you start defending the rights of Islamo fascists that will stop at nothing to kill us all. I read that the biggest problem for those poor murdering terrorists at Gitmo is that they are all gaining too much weight and the injuries suffered by rough games of soccer and the occasional trip to the base dentist. Its just unconscionable that these poor terrorists are subjected to such cruelty......tsk...tsk... poor bastards!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: American torture.... Posted by: Salty_Dog
We could use stem cells for torture research!
Posted by: fanny666 on Dec 18, 2006 4:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, I just blew Dubya's mind!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

www.theworldcantwait.net
Posted by: jwg on Dec 18, 2006 5:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
looking for something to do?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I just hope that at some point...
Posted by: hillstar on Dec 18, 2006 5:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the president and his cohorts will face a court for crimes against humanity...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Are You Kidding?
Posted by: Pirate1 on Dec 18, 2006 6:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Americans are masters at torture. Ask any plantation slave who "looked" at a white woman or dared to speak out or attempt to flea his or her chains... Ask the native americans who were burned, skinned alive, raped... I don't know where you're coming from acting like "now" because of a few recent incidents in the middle east America has torture in it's soul. Get real. We got to be this behemoth empire with torture.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Torture: Without It, USA Would Have Won in Iraq by Now
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 18, 2006 7:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The incredible irony of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and the Bush endorsement of torture is that it's the best booster to Osama and Al Queda imaginable. Boy, that tortured confession from some goat herder at Guantanamo must be awfully good. Good enough to counter the news on the Arab channels and Al Jazeera that 100 million Arabs see? Good enough to deter the thousands, who upon seeing this news and related stories, may very well have decided to join the fight and take up arms. Now, America got several hundred low level operatives, (the majority whom were apparently so dangerous they could be let loose later, LOL), and stuck them in Guantanamo, contrary to international law and norms. And, the negative criticism across the world, across Europe and especially across the Middle East, was a bone crusher to anyone who dared to say anything positive about America or its way of life. We must therefore conclude that if the USA had stayed true to its values, its beliefs, and even if she then invaded Iraq, the war by now would have been winding down in Americas favor. The negative publicity from America and Bushes behavior is the major factor feeding the insurgency in Iraq, and continues to do so. In reality, many Muslims and Arabs actually had very good feelings about the USA and its way of life and its people. America made them its enemy, and for what?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Torture: Without It, USA Would Have Won in Iraq by Now
Posted by: sofla100 on Dec 18, 2006 7:31 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The incredible irony of Guantanamo, Abu Ghraib, and the Bush endorsement of torture is that it's the best booster to Osama and Al Queda imaginable. Boy, that tortured confession from some goat herder at Guantanamo must be awfully good. Good enough to counter the news on the Arab channels and Al Jazeera that 100 million Arabs see? Good enough to deter the thousands, who upon seeing this news and related stories, may very well have decided to join the fight and take up arms. Now, America got several hundred low level operatives, (the majority whom were apparently so dangerous they could be let loose later, LOL), and stuck them in Guantanamo, contrary to international law and norms. And, the negative criticism across the world, across Europe and especially across the Middle East, was a bone crusher to anyone who dared to say anything positive about America or its way of life. We must therefore conclude that if the USA had stayed true to its values, its beliefs, and even if she then invaded Iraq, the war by now would have been winding down in Americas favor. The negative publicity from America and Bushes behavior is the major factor feeding the insurgency in Iraq, and continues to do so. In reality, many Muslims and Arabs actually had very good feelings about the USA and its way of life and its people. America made them its enemy, and for what?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

To believe or not to believe
Posted by: famouspipeliner on Dec 18, 2006 10:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can't believe that the American public is allowing a government to exist which tortures prisoners. I have always thought that if the American government turned overtly to totalitarian methods that the American people would rise and crush their government. I guess that's the mythology.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What? just now?
Posted by: kelt65 on Dec 19, 2006 5:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Torture has ALWAYS been an American pastime. Don't insult us ... please

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

…fines, imprisonments, floggings
Posted by: Arvy on Dec 19, 2006 6:38 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Nothing that the Bush administration is doing is new. There is a purpose and history to it. They have a deliberate stratergy, one that all powerful nations/ groups have employed since, well, Jason and his Argonauts (quest for the golden fleece) and earlier.

Once, textiles were almost as important as oil is today.

As Chomsky says about one example (India):

“European warrior-merchants saw Bengal as one of the richest prizes in the world. An early English visitor described it as "a wonderful land, whose richness and abundance neither war, pestilence, nor oppression could destroy."…the Moroccan traveller Ibn Battuta had described Bengal as "a country of great extent, and one in which rice is extremely abundant. Indeed, I have seen no region of the earth in which provisions are so plentiful." In 1757…Clive described the textile center of Dacca as "extensive, populous, and rich as the city of London"; by 1840 its population had fallen from 150,000 to 30,000, Sir Charles Trevelyan testified…"the jungle and malaria are fast encroaching... Dacca, the Manchester of India, has fallen from a very flourishing town to a very poor and small town." It is now the capital of Bangladesh.

Bengal was known for its fine cotton, now extinct, and for the excellence of its textiles, now imported. After the British takeover, British traders, using "every conceivable form of roguery," "acquired the weavers' cloth for a fraction of its value."

English merchant William Bolts wrote in 1772: "Various and innumerable are the methods of oppressing the poor weavers...such as by fines, imprisonments, floggings, forcing bonds from them, etc." "The oppression and monopolies" imposed by the English "have been the causes of the decline of trade, the decrease of the revenues, and the present ruinous condition of affairs in Bengal."

Adam Smith wrote four years later that in the underpopulated and "fertile country" of Bengal, "three or four hundred thousand people die of hunger in one year." These are consequences of the "improper regulations" and "injudicious restraints" imposed by the ruling Company upon the rice trade, which turn "dearth into a famine."

…land was privatized, yielding wealth to local clients and taxes for the British rulers, while "The settlement fashioned with great care and deliberation has to our painful knowledge subjected almost the whole of the lower classes to most grievous oppression," a British enquiry commission concluded in 1832, commenting on yet another facet of the experiment.

Three years later, the director of the Company reported that "The misery hardly finds a parallel in the history of commerce. The bones of the cotton-weavers are bleaching the plains of India."

While Bengal was despoiled, Britain's textile industry was protected from Indian competition; …A British Royal Industrial Commission of 1916-1918 recalled that Indian industrial development was "not inferior to that of the more advanced European nations" when "merchant adventurers from the West" arrived; it may even be "that the industries of India were far more advanced than those of the West up to the advent of the industrial revolution." Later, British taxes also discriminated against local cloth within India, which was forced to take inferior British textiles.”

Notice how Indian technology at that time was "far in advance" of anything in the west. Like in China, where because of their superior manufacturing processes they didn't want to buy anything from the west, so we turned them into a nation of opium addicts.

Link to original: http://www.zmag.org/Chomsky/year/year-c01-s04.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

God grant me the serenity not to act on what I feel
Posted by: indy675 on Dec 19, 2006 1:40 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author left ot something fairly important: They used either LSD or PCP on him.

For those of you, like me, who have had some actual clinical experience with LSD-25, this makes matters much worse than simple isolation, which is horrible enough.

Essentially, what they did was to shove a human being into an extremely hostile environment (a set and setting of the 5th realm of hell), use every method of sensory deprivation they could think of, other than a sensory deprivation tank, and give him doses of LSD (or PCP, whiich I doubt they would have given him, given the violent reactions it can cause)

This is a sure fire way of destroying a person's mind, forever.

This is worse than death!

They took the protocols for using LSD-25 to begin the healing of broken minds, and did everything just the opposite.

Whoever is resposnible for this is the worst kind of criminal and death is too good for them. Anyone who would use a potentially sacred tool to destroy the mind of another human being is beneath contempt.

Of course, this is far from the first time. They did this before, back in the late 60s, to Americans. They fried them on LSD and dumped them in the Haight-Asbury district of San Francisco, among other places. But this is the first time I have heard of them using sensory deprivation with it.

This is worse than tragic. It is criminal in the highest degree and those responsible must be held accountable to the fullest extent of the law.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Disgusting Pro-torture Propaganda
Posted by: TerryS on Dec 19, 2006 9:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey albrechtkrausse I agree 100% !!

We should be boycotting these violent movies
and shows, especially 24!

I don't know how liberals who watch (and thus
support) pro-torture propaganda such as 24
can call themselves liberals.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

America has been defeated.
Posted by: grokgov on Dec 19, 2006 10:41 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The America I grew up in is gone.

I don't recognize this country any longer.

It's over. I don't think we're coming back from this one.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» You've got that right... Posted by: Artemis3
Torture is Wrong--Drive Out the Bush Regime
Posted by: World Can't Wait on Dec 19, 2006 10:43 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
YOUR GOVERNMENT is openly torturing people, and justifying it.

World Can't Wait--Drive Out the Bush Regime is actively mobilizing people to refuse the terms set by those in power.

Check this out:
By Debra Sweet on behalf of the World Can't Wait national steering committee, 12/11/06
www.worldcantwait.org

The day Congress opens, World Can’t Wait will lead a major challenge to the political direction in this country since the election. A regime as criminal as the Bush regime still allowed to even remain in office? No! An unjust war started on lies, allowed to continue for four years despite an election where people meant to express how strongly they want it stopped? No! The Democrats, now the majority, allowing debate only on how to run the war more effectively, and saying that impeachment can’t even be considered? No!

BUSH MUST GO! IF WAR CRIMES, TORTURE, AND CRIMES AGAINST HUMANITY ARE NOT REASON TO IMPEACH, WHAT IS?
This is no time to “wait and see”. This is a critical time to take action and demand action. Open the investigations and start impeachment, now!

A few weeks ago, we announced that World Can’t Wait was going to raise the specific demand for impeachment at the opening of Congress on January 4, 2007. A call has been posted with initial endorsers. This letter is to address more fully why we propose this course of action now.
www.worldcantwait.org
GET INVOLVED!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

THIS IS AN ABSOLUTE ABOMINATION OF UNPRECEDENTED EVIL!!!!
Posted by: Prophit on Dec 20, 2006 10:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can anyone justify this kind of treatment? Given there was no way to extract information from him given his mental condition, then the whole thing has nothing to do with interrogation, rather with destruction of this human for WHAT FRIGGEN PURPOSE?????

I am afraid to even think about how sick my fellow Americans must be to do this willingly to another fellow citizen. I can't imagine it and I think we should be screaming bloody murder to those in power to stop this horror now.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Criminal Minds
Posted by: mistery509 on Dec 20, 2006 10:57 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone ever analized George W.'s brain? Who is this person? What are his hobbies? Who are his close friends? Why does he have the urge to kill or have someone kill for him? Who influensed him in his childhood? What are his thoughts when he goes to bed at night? Is he an empty vessel? Is he a coward or a hero? Who is this person 30 per cent of Americans love and worship and who would sacrifice their children for him and his causes?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What if Native peoples were being horrifically tortured today?
Posted by: crazyoglala on Dec 20, 2006 2:23 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Ooops. I forgot we still are being tortured today and they keep pounding on our souls. We continue to resist though by any means possible. We are therefore the remnants of those who once lived a full beautiful life prior to the coming of the Land thieves. Today, the form of torture includes sensory deprivation methods like those used against Padilla. These torture methods were used against young Native boys like Norman Brown, Wish Draper, Baby AIM Anderson, and lately Arlo Looking Cloud.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

War without purpose...
Posted by: SusanC on Dec 20, 2006 4:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Two things wrong here.

Generally this is torture is without purpose as far as extracting information. The prisoners don't divulge any useful information...they just go mad. Sadism for the fun of it.

Specifically as regards Padilla, he is no terrorist, never was. At most he is guilty of being a pretender, a clown. The government knew this, but chose to make a convenient example out of him. Since the so-called "war on terror" began the government has shown a patern of going after clowns with less than half-baked plots not to mention the cases where they engaged in entrapment by pulling/pushing frustrated individuals into would-be terror plots.

If the Bush administration can't find real terrorists or terror plots to crush...they just creat their own to look like they are moving ahead in "the war on terror".

Susan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Don't lose hope...
Posted by: CCGirl on Dec 20, 2006 10:48 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Indigenous movements have found their political niche throughout the Americas, for example Bolivia has its first indigenous president! Also see Chavez in Venezuela, these men were popularily elected by the majority of the population, the poor. Organize, organize, organize!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

bobvz@cox.net
Posted by: Robert Veasey on Dec 20, 2006 11:03 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Gruesome? Alleged abuse? Torture? Outrageous calumny! Calumny without proof. Lies one and all.

Show us the pictures. Show us the "proof" for these dastardly calumunous accusations.
Are we to take the word of an enemy accuser who 'claims' that he was kept sensory deprived with hands tied to a cealing for 1113 hour? Are we to take the word of the other international socialist organizations who always report what they 'think' is being done or they 'believe' is being horrificly played out - who always see a diabolical horror underneath every American attempt to lead and defend against those who would turn the world into anarchy.

They make it up as they go along. You make it up as you go along! You're calumnous lies and theirs are ever- transparent. Shame on you and your whole generation of misfitted, pot smoking, weak-minded destroyers of truth - all played out under the guise of virtue.

If history has shown us anything it is that lies only prevail to confuse and destroy and t are "always" revealed for the distortions that they really are.

But usually not before they destroy the very foundations of the civilization they seek to destory

Your lies will be no exception.

Millions of lies were told about the most unpopular of all Presidents: Abraham Lincoln....who took his country to war....where eventually brother fought against brother and a whole slave industry was uncovered, uprooted and destroyed.

They eventually killed Lincoln in their hatred - amplified by their lie.

However, history has vindicated Lincoln and what he did. Time is always the most effective teacher; always brings forth the truth - the most notable of truth being that Lincoln was right to take the country into war...it was the only way - and only opportunity - for change and total victory - lest the fledgling nation be destroyed. Lincoln's approval polls dropped into the high teens.

Truman was the next most unpopular President. His polls plummeted into the low 20's after Hiroshima and Nagasaki.

History here too treats Truman with great kindness and respect - for doing then that which was most unpopular. He too is revered - the simple, plain spoken man from Missouri.

Bush is made from the same cloth - he has the same ethos as a Lincoln and the same plain-spoken, uncomplicated capacity to see what must be done as a Truman.

Shame on all of you for being just as stupid as the then 'current' generations of Lincoln and Truman. Human nature ability to forward-see, forward-think is quite remarkably limited.

God bless George Bush. God forgive us as a nation for allowing our hearts to falter in the face of overwheling demand for our intervention against tyranny and most especially for failing to, once again, finish the mission that we promised we would....and for allowing ourselves to be on the cusp of another abandonment of a noble cause. Shame on us for abandoning our troops.

But know this: this time our inaction and cowardice shall be to our undoing. We shall now become the victims of the worst form of tyranny that the world has ever seen.

This enemy is laughing and reveling in what is soon to come. They see our weakness and our stupidity and they laugh.

They long for the day of our annihilation.

Shame on all of you for saying the things that you say about our President. Shame on our nation - a nation given and with so much potential that once again blinks...that once again takes the cowards way out.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: bobvz@cox.net (TROLL alert) Posted by: Salty_Dog
» RE: bobvz@cox.net (TROLL alert) Posted by: Robert Veasey
bobvz@cox.net
Posted by: Robert Veasey on Dec 21, 2006 8:57 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, there's a way to stop it - but not if you don't recogize the modue operandi of those writing such commentary, the negative articles...calling for 'organizing' (code word for socialism) 'senseless war' (code words for 'I really don't have anything substantive to say so I'll just trough through and pile on and hope that my commentary will sound both intelligent and relative). And of course there's always the standby of the imbecilia generation: calling for impeachment (code word for agreeing with ANYONE OR ANYTHING that implies incompetancy or malfeasance, misguidance or purposeful evasion, hard lies coupled with purposeful evasion, myriads of distortions) especially if it has to do with President George Bush. Why? Why he's the obstacle to power of the Executive. Got to get rid of him, by any means. And if there 'ain't' no means - well then - just make it up as you go along. Some of it will stick. Unfortunately, too much of it has stuck and it's all built on purposeful illusion.

This brand of sociopaths strike out with ANY political negative, ANY political lie, ANY personal accusation - 99% of which is bulldrop! To what end? Political assassination of a President's character in order to bring about a desired result - impeachment!!

And this of course is in retaliation for the impeachment of their wuss hero - old Slickwilly "Bill"Clinton.

They don't give a tinker's damn about America or Americans. And to them 'all means justify the end.'

And since all of this is highly transparent to the majority of Americans it provides us with the best argument for a Republican victory in 2008.

By the way, it's political stupidty to believe that this past election was a rebuke of Republicans as a whole rather than a political slappoing of a great number of Republicans who just plain forgot who elected them and why.

So Americans turned them out of office. Remember, the one Republican who voted 'against' the Iraq war and voted frequently against the Bush agenda? His name was Linc Chafee. He was the darling of the political left. And now he's on the scrapheap of political history. Citizen Chafee. Wow! Miracles do happen! His defeat is the best argument against your hypothesis. Americans didn't rebuke all of Republican values. They just turned out of office the worst - the one's who failed to support the President...and at the same time...they asked for a better way to win the Iraq war...there's was not a call for abandoning the cause.

The election was neither an affirmation of liberal thought nor a condemnation of conservative thought.

Actually, viewed from a look at every district and state shows us that Bush, as President and Commander and Chief, is in a pretty good political position -more so than at any other time in his Presidency.

He's got a lot of Democrats he can count on to support his agenda.

So suck it up all you liberal mental cases. The next two years will be a proving ground for a more forthright message - and will probably be authenticated in events that will probably take place.

You've got little chance of a pure Democratic majority in 2008, or for that matter, 2010, 2012...perhaps not for another century. You old, dried up ideas just don't sell anymore.

Now tell your tatooed daughter with all of that metal implanted on her cheeks, lips, tongue and belly button - that she may have to serve in some kind of Homeland Draft Defense Force....because the enemy is coming...whether we withdraw or stay...whether we win Baghdad or lose it...whether we stay the course or God forbid, leave the Iraqi people to the dogs that will swallow them whole when we leave. And your son? Well, he'd best start getting into shape. He'll have to pull a heavy load.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: bobvz@cox.net (Troll alert) Posted by: Salty_Dog
» RE: bobvz@cox.net Posted by: makeadifference
Liberalism is a mental disorder
Posted by: kbest on Dec 22, 2006 4:46 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is all determined by what your definition of torture is. Standing in one place for a long period of time is not torture. Being made to feel uncomfortable with temperature change is not torture. Abu Ghraib was no worse than under-supervised immature guards imitating a college hazing. We are in a war and dealing with enemy combatants. Deal with it!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Liberalism is a mental disorder Posted by: Robert Veasey
Ref: Arvy's Post
Posted by: rafey on Dec 22, 2006 7:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those of you who overlooked Arvy's post, above, he is quoting from one of the best books written about American foreign policy in the 20th Century. Entitled 'Year 501' by Chomsky, it is a thorough, heavily researched analysis of five centuries of Western Foreign policy: its promises, failures and long range negative consequences. A MUST READ !!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

SCRAPMAN
Posted by: SCRAPMAN on Dec 23, 2006 8:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Things like these not only reflect the evil that has seeped into the "Christian" values so highly praised by our leaders, it also reflects the ignorance and apathy of those who know and just don't care.... "it's not me...what's on Sci-fi?" The truth is out there and people just walk away. Any wonder how in WW2, 6 million could be tortured to death and put into incinerators "without anyone knowing?" or was it just because "it isn't me"? Labels breed ignorance, and the US oligarchy thrives off of blind, stupid, sheep. So get in line and shut up, or you'll be in an isolation cell too, with some meaningly label slapped on you, eh?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The war on terror is what it was designed to be:
Posted by: Ian MacLeod on Jan 5, 2007 8:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The War OF Terror - against the American populace. "See what happens to people if they don'y obey - or even if we just happen to feel like it?" RIP America.

Ian

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]