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Rights and Liberties

Mother of Suicide Vet Flies Old Glory Upside Down

By Matthew Rothschild, The Progressive. Posted July 18, 2006.


Four months after returning home from Iraq, Army reservist Jason Cooper hanged himself. And not even 'patriotic' entreaties or vandalism will stop his mother from flying the flag upside down.
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Terri Jones lost her son Jason Cooper just over a year ago.

He was an Army Reservist in the Iraq War.

On July 14, 2005, four months after returning home to Iowa, he hanged himself.

He was 23.

Since then, Jones has been flying her American flag upside down, though someone came on her property once and turned it right side up, and another person stole it.

“We had a flag out the whole time Jason was in Iraq,” she says. “Once he died, my boyfriend Vince turned it upside down to protest everything that’s happening with our government, especially our soldiers being failed when they come home.”

Jones says Jason wasn’t the same when he got back from Iraq.

“He was a really upbeat, happy, funny kid” before he left, she says. “You could tell his smile was gone when he came home.”

He also had a hard time paying attention.

“We did notice right away that he’d space off while you were trying to talk to him,” she says. “His thoughts were floating off somewhere else.”

And the reaction of some of his friends caught him by surprise.

“He was excited to see them,” she says, “and he thought they would be, ‘Hey, Coop, good to see you.’ But instead, the first thing that would come out was, ‘Jas, you shoot anybody?’ He was so taken aback he didn’t know how to answer. He’d just say, ‘I don’t want to talk about it.’ ”

Jones tells me her son was hit by enemy fire. “His flack jacket took 37 pieces of shrapnel,” she says. “He didn’t even get a bruise.”

Jones also told Jennifer Jacobs of the Des Moines Register of one haunting memory he had about an insurgent who executed an Iraqi child in full view of Cooper and other members of his unit.

Jason was having a lot of nightmares and flashbacks, his mother says. “His girlfriend said he’d wake up in night sweats, and she had to take him out for a walk at three in the morning.”

Jones says she really got worried three days before her son died.

“He called me at work towards the end of the day,” she says. “He was at the mall. He was crying. He was really disoriented. He didn’t know what was happening. He was afraid. He told me a friend of his had just died. I asked what his name was. And he said Jeremy Ridlen, who had died a year before.” (Ridlen, an Army National Guard Specialist, died in East Fallujah on May 23, 2004.)

Jones says her son “knew he needed help, but he didn’t want to go the VA.” She says he’d gone there the month before, after he hurt his wrist in a motorcycle fall. “When he went to the VA, they didn’t have room to treat him that day,” she says.

Plus, she says, he was worried about the stigma he might get if he appeared to be weak.

“He was still active duty,” she says, and “he knew he would have to go back” to Iraq.

Jones says the military isn’t doing enough for soldiers suffering from Post-Traumatic Stress Disorder. “They are not being take care of,” she says.

The VA denies this.

“We’re out there in their faces. . . . We’re all there for them,” Victor Tate, a VA outreach specialist in Iowa, told the Des Moines Register. “At no time in the history of America has more attention been paid to veterans.”

Now a member of Gold Star Families for Peace, Jones says she’s “forming a subchapter support group to help with military families who’ve had a suicide” after their loved one returned home.

“So far we know of about 70” such tragedies, she says.

Recently, Jones wrote a letter to Jason, which she posted on his memorial website.

“Jas, Mother’s Day came and went, and it was so hard not to hear from you. You always had something that you were so proud to give me. I still have petals from the pink roses you sent while still in training or all the drawings you loved to make. I carried your military boots in a Mother’s Day march in Washington, DC, to bring our troops home now. . . . I realized then that I did spend time with you on Mother’s Day and even though it wasn’t in a way that I would prefer, you will never be gone from me. You will always be in my mind and heart. . . . I hope you are in a sea of flowers now honey. No worries, no pain, just happy and enjoying the beauty of heaven. I miss you, buddy! I still wait for a phone call, I still long to hear ‘love you, Mama.’ . . . I am so grateful that you were my son to leave life-long memories. Love you the mostest, Mama.”


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Matthew Rothschild is the editor of The Progressive.

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View:
mine flies upside down as well
Posted by: canipanic on Jul 18, 2006 3:00 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I flew mine upside down on july 4thi took a picture of it here

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» RE: mine flies upside down as well Posted by: Conservasaurus
Support our troops
Posted by: Conservasaurus on Jul 18, 2006 6:27 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
this is exactly what I refer to when I add that comment in my posts.. When these guys come back, fitting into society again can be a challenge for sure..some handle it better than others but the armed forces has to give them top priority. I'm sure they have better programs now than ever before but more can always be done..

As for flying a flag upside down... alot to say on that but wont!

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» RE: Support our troops Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Support our troops Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Support our troops Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Support our troops Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Support our troops Posted by: Conservasaurus
» My goodness Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: My goodness Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Typical troll retort Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Con hates the troops Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Con hates the troops sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Don't need military service Posted by: fifthworld
» RE: Con hates the troops sickofsleaze Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Con hates the troops sickofsleaze Posted by: Conservasaurus
Common occurence
Posted by: nbrown on Jul 19, 2006 1:20 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Several of my friends have done a year in Iraq. One of them, whose best friend was also there, told me a few things. He said his best friend came back from Iraq "worthless" -- his words -- due to Post Traumatic Stress.

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Long time going.
Posted by: gonzoskismet on Jul 19, 2006 2:28 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God bless you, ma'am. And may God also bless your son.
As a Nam vet, I've seen way too much of this. But I guess you probably know that by now. America eats its young.

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» RE: Long time going. Posted by: eastcoker
PTSD
Posted by: eastcoker on Jul 19, 2006 2:51 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Dear Alternet,
As a person suffering from not only PTSD, but complex PTSD, look it up, who struggles with suicidal thoughts every day despite being on medication, I know what this woman is talking about is very real. PTSD is categorized as a major mental illness and a mental health disability. I did not want to accept those labels but after reading this article I am more willing to if it means I can talk about them.
Yes the VA turns people away. I just heard that today. They turn away alcoholics for one.
There is a new book about PTSD about suicide and the violence of war. I encourage everybody who has a loved one in the Armed Forces or a loved one who wants to join the Armed Forces or has served in the Armed Forces to educate themselves about PTSD.
If left untreated it can result in suicide. This is no joke.
eastcoker

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» You can survive Posted by: jwg
» RE: You can survive - thank you Posted by: eastcoker
» Hi druidlaw! Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: PTSD Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: PTSD Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: PTSD Posted by: gonzoskismet
» :) Posted by: eastcoker
» RE: PTSD Posted by: HeroesAll
» PTSD and medication Posted by: eastcoker
Flags
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking on Jul 19, 2006 3:03 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've been flying an American Flag upside down for the last six years. I know what it means. I'm an X Navy SEAL. Why? Several reasons.

First off, a flag flown upside down is a plea for help. I had a friend who was wracked with chlorodane poisoning, PTSD, and cancer. He lost his left leg in a place called Vietnam that far too many people forgot about. He got a Siver Star and a Navy Cross, and a ticket Stateside. There was no jobs waiting for him, and the ones that were to be weren't being given to Vietnam Vets.

He put in for disability, but first he had to take his prosthetic leg off to prove he was disabled. He was then told that if he could aford such a fine prosthesis, he really didn't need government help! What the asshole in charge didn't know was that a number of his friends took up a collection at a party in his honor to buy that leg because the military model was tearing his stump to Hell! I played the drums in the band that performed there.

I never played a tighter gig in my life! The band was a half-day old at the time, with a one hour rehersal. We raised $4000.00. It covered the cost.

A friend of mine who has a couple of houses, gave him lifetime rights to one. All of us sort of addopted him and tried to help as much as we could. What do you say to a man with a thousand yard stare who is screaming "Charie's in the LZ"! at the top of his lungs? How do you comfort a man who is troubled by things beyond your comprehension? How do you reach out to someone who cannot percieve your hand? Yet somehow we did, and we pulled him back from the brink several times. He had his "Mad Moments" He fought with devils we couldn't even see. He started getting better for a while and that's when the "Chloracne" hit. Huge boils rose all over his back. The VA didn't know what it was, (Or didn't admit they knew what it was). We finally learned the name of a Cherokee Medicine Chief (Chief Two Trees of Old Fort North Carolina) who knew what the problem was and knew what to do about it. It was chloridane poisoning from "Agent Orange" Which military personel had been told was "harmless"

Opening the boils was painfull but Chief Two Trees made it as bearable as he could. The boils dried up and as long as he took the herbal detox tea that Chief Two Trees made him, it stayed pretty much under control.

It was ten years later that the cancer popped up. He fought it like a Marine, but in the end it was just too much. The government that he fought for, bled for, screamed for, and cried for, and nearly died for, decided that to give a cancer patient the necesary pain medication in dosages large enough to work, "Sent the wrong message to the youth of America".

On December, 3, 2000, Sergeant Ezikiel Robert Douglas, USMC Disabled, put on his old dress blues, put a .45 .ACP to his head, and put his own suffering to an end.

I fly my flag upside down for "Z Bob" and thousands like him that died forgotten in ungodly circumstances, forgotten by the country they gave their youth, inocence and health for. I fly it upside down for my two nephews and cousin who are on their third tours in Iraq right now. God only knows what will come back to us! I know it won't be what left.

I fly it because this country is run by a fucking idiot and his rubber stamp yes-men in Congress that for the most part doesn't have a clue what it's like to face death for your country, and the ones that do, are ignored and their patriotism questioned by a bunch of Right Wing Nut-jobs

And last, but not least, I fly it for us! Because God help us if we don't do something about it!

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» Thank you. Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Flags - Thank You Posted by: Techubus
» RE: Flags Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Flags Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Flags Posted by: sirossisofliver
» RE: Flags sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Damn fine post... Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Flags Posted by: montal
» RE: SUPPORT OUR TROOPS Posted by: AlienSlave
» RE: Flags Posted by: HeroesAll
» RE: Flags Posted by: greenewright
» RE: Flags Posted by: dominick
» RE: Flags Posted by: makeadifference
» RE: Yes you certainly may! Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Flags Posted by: grolan
» RE: Flags Posted by: rovinggrover
» RE: Flags Posted by: mallamv
» RE: Flags - Bless you! Posted by: mountainmama
» Amen. nm Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: Flags Posted by: MegOnTheMountain
» RE: Flags Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
» RE: Flags Posted by: littleoldcardmaker
» RE: Flags Posted by: AFWXMAN
Dire Distress -- BEST THREAD I've seen yet
Posted by: fifthworld on Jul 19, 2006 5:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
God bless all the upside down flag wavers/posters/wearers. I've never been so proud to stand up and say f--- this whole scene. And add Anglo-Israeli Likkudnik terrorists to the mix, and we've got some whole-hearted outrage. We don't have to have answers, just do a little in your local communities. Enough upside down flags and we'll set off a quake of truth-telling that might get your average Homer and Marge on board.

The Empire's teetering - give it a push.

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mine, too
Posted by: vesparia on Jul 19, 2006 6:56 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Flying the flag upside down is supposed to be an international distress symbol. If the US is not in distress, I don't know what is? I have been flying my flag upside down since Coronation Day 2005 and I can't find a reason to change it.
Who is going to save our country from the madman at the helm?

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» RE: mine, too; removing the madman sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
What can I say?
Posted by: tuff_bird on Jul 19, 2006 8:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I never served (I had a low number, but my 19th year was 1973; the draft was over), but many friends did. A few came home somewhat safely; many came home as Jason came home; and many came home in boxes.

Before we ask our youth (or anyone else) to give up their lives or to take the lives of others, any feeling human should do some serious soul-searching. In the case of the present administration, this would presuppose that they have souls.

Yes this world is in distress, and largely because of the Fascist right-wing scum that hijacked this country. When will enough be enough for these greedy bastards?

Fly your flag upside down. And God Bless.

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She can do what she wants but don't exploit this dead soldier for political points.
Posted by: thinkprogress on Jul 20, 2006 12:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This women can fly the flag upside down, burn it, tear it to pieces, I don't care. She just lost her son. She can do what she wants. I pray for her.

As a long time reader I am a little disturbed by Alternet exploiting a soldier who hung himself in order to rip Bush.

That in my opinion is very wrong. There are more than enough other reasons to rip Bush. But this is very very wrong. It is such a sad and tragic situation, it should not be exploited to score political points.

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» Exploitation?????? Posted by: Lizmv
» RE: xploitation?????? sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» Talk about exploitation! Posted by: doctorclam
FLAG FLYING
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jul 20, 2006 2:32 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Flying the flag upside down is the ultimate act of patriotism. I've been trying to obtain a decal for the rear window of my van so I can do just that.

God bless this woman and good luck to her. As the code says, flying the flag upside down is a sign of distress. Well....um....is there anyone out there who is willing to argue the fact that this country is in a severely distressed state at this moment in its history? To believe otherwise is to be in a serious state of denial.

And to think that if the distinguished senator from New York has her way, this woman will be tagged a criminal. Hillary Clinton's pandering to the extreme right-wing is the most shameful behavior that I've ever witnessed from a so-called "progressive" politician. She is as morally bankrupt as any crooked pol that ever slithered up capital hill.

Message to the donkey: The fact that one is married to Bill Clinton is not quite sufficient experience for the job of president. Just a thought.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
Tom Degan's Daily Rant

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» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Paul D
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: Conservasaurus Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Conservasaurus Posted by: Conservasaurus
» I'll consult Posted by: russianblue1
» RE: Where exactly did you serve? Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: brunowe
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: brunowe
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: drmagal
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Shehova
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: pomes
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: ConnecttheDots
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: babs
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Techubus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» Iraq had NOTHING to do with 911. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: FERTILIZER!!!! Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» Arrogance and denial Posted by: fifthworld
» Cowardasaurus Posted by: BKLN
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: makeadifference
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: FLAG FLYING Posted by: Conservasaurus
» RE: FLAG FLYING Sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
distressed
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 20, 2006 3:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone who has been in a war is distressed because they do or see killing and maiming of body and mind. Criminals like the Bushies start wars for no good reason, only for greedoil. Greedoil is insufficient cause to start any war. Far from suffering, the greedoil folks live high on the hog, while soldiers and civilians get whacked with death and dismemberment. This is injustice of the worst kind caused by the worst kind of class warfare. End this sordid class warfare and death warfare by impeaching the Bushie criminals who made it all happen with such sordid ugliness.

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sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 20, 2006 4:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Go lady go. You have my support and sympathy

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Thanks
Posted by: hagwind on Jul 20, 2006 4:23 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks for this story and thanks to those who've responded. I'm bawling too, probably because I can feel the hope and the courage coming through and am daring to believe that maybe we can turn this distressed and soul-sick country around. I'm 55 and have never flown a U.S. flag either right side up or upside down. Maybe I will someday.

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» RE: Thanks Posted by: makeadifference
sickofslaeze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 20, 2006 4:31 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I had my own post traumatic stress syndrome when I lost my Mother in 2003. With no children or siblings and taken advantage of by unscrupulous workmen I hit the very bottom one night but was too chicken for suicide but asked God to take me anyway. Then the very next day I stopped by a friend's house and they had a spare dog they took in because her owner was forced to send her to the pound unless a home was found. She changed my life, I hated living alone and was no longer alone. It was so nice to wake up in the night, pat a warm lump, tell her how pretty she was and go back to sleep. I have since acquired 4 cats and thank God several times each day and night for my blessings

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» RE: sickofslaeze Posted by: Lizmv
» RE: sickofslaeze Posted by: Tom Degan
» Nothing personal folks but Posted by: fifthworld
re think progress
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 20, 2006 4:55 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THAT IS NOT POLITICAL EXPLOITATION. Alternet and the bereaved mother are calling attention to a situation that needs to be addressed and our mealy-mouthed talking heads that masquerade as press damn sure won't do it. This war is making things worse on both side, it will take generations for both sides to recover if ever.

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I am so sorry for this woman
Posted by: Vani on Jul 20, 2006 5:01 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can you deal with the loss of a child, worse, a grown child, worse, a child who dies from suicide, after suffering so much, worse, a chld whose pain could have been avoided. I only hope that my prayers mean something and that they can help her. I appreciate the protest that she is making. I hope that it is helping some very hearless people come to their senses about this war.

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a nation in distress
Posted by: seefleur on Jul 20, 2006 5:07 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The day that Shrub put the troops in to Iraq, my husband went out and lowered our flag to half staff. He told the kids that until our troops were out of this illegal war, the flag would remain at half staff. My sons are almost of an age to register with selective service, and I hope that the flag can be raised again before the oldest has to register in October. But I doubt it. In the meantime, as much distress as this country is in - we should all be flying the flag upside down.

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» Raise flag again?? Posted by: fifthworld
Don't or Can't Fly the Flag? Try this...
Posted by: kww355 on Jul 20, 2006 5:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a 55 year old female, and like a previous poster, I saw too many of my friends come home from Nam with the "thousand yard stare" or come home in a box.

I've been billyclubbed, tear gassed or arrested in protest actions dating back 40 years now. I never showed any disrespect to soldiers,though. ( Thanks, gonzoskismet, againstthewindwalking and any others here for your sacrifices!)

I live in the buckle of the Bible Belt where flying the flag upside down would probably get the windows shot out of my house ( or worse ).

Ever since they became available, I've made it a point to buy those postage stamps with the flag on 'em. I've always stuck them on upside down. It's a small gesture but they get disseminated all over the country.

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» tuff_bird Posted by: kww355
» gonzoskismet Posted by: kww355
Flying the flag upside down
Posted by: mysticalrae on Jul 20, 2006 5:14 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is a mild reaction compared to what I would be doing in this mother's place. I have a 23 year old son, a beautiful, sensitive caring soul who also would be destroyed by participating in a brutal war. I have two other sons as well, and I thank them every time I talk to them for not being a part of what is going on right now, for staying sane and (luckily) being smart enough to avoid being drawn into the insanity of the military mind.
I lost many friends and loved ones to the craziness of the Viet Nam war, and discovered through my own grief that truly, human beings on this planet have evolved past the state in which they can kill one another in wars and survive it psychologically.
We the people, not those few strange heartless creatures who are in charge, will be the ones to finally break through the bonds of brainwashing and hypnotizing that is the product of the programming of our young and vulnerable. When we can change the message we adults give them that they are doing what is right and good in our eyes by going to war they will stop. Isn't it interesting that Bushes daughters, and Hilary's daughter aren't in the reserves? Hmmmm. If this truly were the home of the brave, they would be the first to step up to serve.
I

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THIS COMBAT VET AGREES WITH THE GOLD STAR MOM
Posted by: kc10ken on Jul 20, 2006 5:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How many Gold Star Mothers will be created before this incompetent human shitwave in Washington called an administration admits it's horrific mistake in invading Iraq?

How many before we can come home?

I served honorably for over 13 years, including 3 tours in the middle east, before I refused to reenlist because of dumbya's quagmire in Iraq. At that time, most of my fellow service members thought I was a crazy tree hugging liberal (that's what Rush Limpdick and Sean Hannity told them to say). I told them this fiasco would end up creating a terrible civil war in Iraq and would destabilize the middle east.

Now who's laughing? I have to laugh because the alternative is too depressing. 2600 dead Americans, over 100,000 dead Iraqis, over 250,000 displaced Iraqis, over 18,500 PERMANENTLY maimed/disabled American soldiers......mostly just 19 year old kids now with no arms, no legs, horribly burned and disfigured and condemned to wheelchairs and beds for the rest of their lives...and for what?

For WHAT I ask?

November is coming my fellow Americans. Please shout it from the rooftops and take every opportunity to get your friends and family to vote these BASTARDS who put us in Iraq out of office.

Peace

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Upside down and in our front window...
Posted by: Monde on Jul 20, 2006 6:05 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is something more of us should do, and it reminds me I need to put mine back; we took it down to use in a demonstration and I just hadn't gotten around to replacing it.

It's definitely placed there as a DISTRESS SIGNAL. DISTRESS not only for the troops, but for our democracy, which is that only in name. Distress for the BushCo. fanclub mentality, which is "Amurrika is Right No Matter What", who would probably support Bush if he started herding gays, non-Christians, drug users, maybe even Mexicans, Muslims and well, you know, people without money...into Halliburton-constructed Detention and Removal Centers.

Oh, you didn't know about those? I'm not joking. THAT was what made me decide to leave the flag in our front window upside-down; I'd placed it that way after that farce they'd the nerve to call an election (Bonesman versus Bonesman, immediate concession, lots and lots of lost votes and now I hear about the "caging lists"; mandate my ass, that election was as phony as Bush's Christianity.) I was afraid maybe someone might toss a heavy object through the window, but I don't live in fear, these days, I made a conscious decision that it's what THEY want me to do, and I won't.

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There aren't any brownie points here.
Posted by: paintthestreets on Jul 20, 2006 6:15 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I beg to differ with this view that you possess on how this woman wanted to gain political weight by telling people about her son's plight, and AlterNet's reasoning to put it on the site. No where does she say Bush is an uber asshole and this is about Bush, clearly she is attacking the VA and military who have not made veterans from the war top priority, that they have not been given the attention due to them.

Not only are there vets who have taken their own lives, some are homeless, some have unfortunately taken other lives here as well, and many are injured with no where to turn. Fuck the politics -- isn't this about rights?

How do we expect our troops to live after they saw what they saw and after they've done what they've done in order to serve us? Many troops come back with many emotions -- it isn't fair to just give them a little money here and there and expect them to go their own way and deal with it themselves. Although by being in the military they essentially know that they want to go to war, does that mean that they deserve to be left out in the cold?

No. I think if this mother wanted to win political points she would have caused a raucous and been loud and made sure her story was plastered inside every major magazine and newspaper in America. Instead, she opted for an independent media source -- one that the neocons in Washington probably don't read and wish never existed. So I hardly doubt her intentions were dishonest.

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» People have different modes Posted by: fifthworld
American Mom
Posted by: NoPCZone on Jul 20, 2006 7:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a Veteran of 8 years active duty the fact that she is flying the US flag upside down does not upset me-- the fact that she has been compelled to do so by our government's actions does. She is just exercising her rights and I say more power to you.

Ms Jones is the very kind of person that makes our nation a better place-- a mom who loves her son & her country and is more than willing to fight for both. She honors her son's memory, our nation and all veterans by standing up for what is right.

The US Flag is not sacred-- it is just a symbol. The things that it represents are far more important than sunshine patriotism. Sometimes loving your country means protesting things that are wrong. Thank God this mom and others have the courage to act on their convictions.

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don't have a flag pole?
Posted by: larry278 on Jul 20, 2006 7:20 AM   
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There is another gesture for those of us who don't have a flag pole. U S Postal Service has postage stamps that show old glory [now gory]. I use them but place the flag upside down.
Vets who do get treatment for PTSD from VA should take care. Some of the VA employees who treat PTSD are less than qualified since they don't keep up on new ways to treat PTSD.

.

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» RE: don't have a flag pole? Posted by: jonestown kool-aid
War is a Two edged sword.
Posted by: itchyvet on Jul 20, 2006 7:20 AM   
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I'm NOT American, however I AM a Vietnam Vet and am still suffering from PSTD after all these years.
We had a saying when I was young and IN COUNTRY, it was our duty to DO or DIE, none of us ever gave much thought to coming home with mental problems.
We actualy believed it was cost effective for our Govt for us to come home DEAD, then half dead with bits missing or worse, with mental problems.
It's a well known fact, that our society, (and I believe there is no difference on this issue with American society) believes anyone suffering from a mental illness is a burden on society, even if said illness has been as a direct result of service to that very same society, ( I'd dearly love to hear, how the acts in Iraq benefit American society)we all saw at first hand how our WW 2 veterans were treated by our various Govts and still are to this very day.
People should educate themselves and become aware that they are being conned by their various Govts to submit themselves as sacraficial lambs for slaughter, something EVERY GOVT OFFICIAL would NEVER in a million years, submit themselves or their offspring to, so wake up all you misguided people out there, all that patriotic bullshit you're being brainwashed with, at the end of the day, doesn't mean anything, as these poor sad victims who comit the ultimate sacrafice are finding out on their return to the land that hyped them up and filled their heads with garbadge that is meaningless.

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» If I am not mistaken... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
More power to you
Posted by: russianblue1 on Jul 20, 2006 7:24 AM   
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and my hopes are with you, in and for the future. Take good care of yourself and family in dealing with your son's suicide - it does affect the whole family all your lives.

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I'm sobbing right now.
Posted by: caitlin on Jul 20, 2006 7:36 AM   
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I'm so sorry for the loss of this woman. I read her message to her son and I just lost it. It's not just her son, but it's all of the people who have lost kids, husbands, wives, parents, brothers, sisters, and not just the American ones, but also the Iraqis and the British and everyone who has died as a result of this completely asinine and idiotic war. I don't know how anyone can tell me that there is any goal that is worth this price that is being paid.

I'm sorry - this doesn't make much sense. I'm a mess right now, but this article and this woman's words really affected me deeply.

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» RE: I'm sobbing right now. Posted by: makeadifference
sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 20, 2006 7:40 AM   
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Tom, I admire your style, dedication and single-mindedness in ridding us of Bush but to do that we first need to have a well informed public and we DAMNED sure aren't getting it with the wimpy corporate owned press we have now. We need to have an Ameican Bastille Day and reduce Fox, NBC CBS ABC and all the other blithering idot dittoheads that spout the propaganda put out by Rove and Tony Snowjob to bug dust and THEN wise the public up and impeach to our hearts content. Until then we are tilting at windmills

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Misconception/Brainwash
Posted by: authorship on Jul 20, 2006 8:05 AM   
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It is an administration misconcepted brainwashing that disagreeing with the dictatorial world dominion bully, fear-driven US government is in some way 'dishonoring' the USA military. It is NOT dishonoring the US military to disagree with the ill-conceived Iraq War. People who parrot this concept need (not should) to examine their expression of this issue before they click-clack on the 'net and/or spout off, proving their oblation to the Bush administration and the entire fiasco the Iraq was/is/will be as future generations pay for it!
When Michael Moore said; 'Hey dude, where's my country?' I thought him extreme. Now, however, I voice the same sentiment, with regret. I no longer know my country, so destroyed it has become, from the values it was established upon to the Bush voice concerning the Constitution, '...it is just a piece of paper!' He cancelled
People MUST be informed these days and release themselves from the apathy they have sunk into, as did the Roman Empire, as did Germany, etc.! I have no children, grandchildren to concern myself with, given the erosion of the USA, but it pains me still that our leaders could have sunk - and carried thousands of US citizens - with them! I am, however, a senior on a diminishing Medicare/Rx system, courtesy of the current administration, while trillions of US$ are spent in Iraq, with thousands of maimed soldiers returned to our shores, their faith in country shattered, all too justified!
US citizens release our country to White House/Pentagon propaganda and let not our country go the tragic pathway of destruction on which it is headed, with King George leading the march meanwhile destroying our most valued natural resource - our youth!

Well, here's the REAL story...A CHILD USED BY THE BUSH PR MILL AND LEFT BEHIND!!

Beyond The Photo-Op: Bush Budget Leaves Autistic Children Behind
Jason McElwain aka “J-Mac” — the autistic high-school basketball player — gained national attention when he scored 20 points for his varsity team with a flurry of 3-pointers. While President Bush has publicly acknowledged his admiration for the young star, his FY07 budget shows an indifference towards autistic children:

- In his proposed budget for next year, Bush has cut all funding for the National Children’s Study, a project that planned to investigate the causes of autism, asthma, and other serious illnesses.

- The President’s budget will eliminate Medicaid reimbursements for schoolchildren with disabilities, denying them “access to medical services they need to fully participate in school and learn to their greatest abilities.”

- The number of children diagnosed with autism and served by schools under the Individuals with Disabilities Education Act (IDEA) increased by more than 500 percent in the last decade, according to the Government Accountability Office (GAO). The President’s FY07 budget, however, will fund IDEA at $6.3 billion below the amount Congress recommended.

Bush’s visit with J-Mac was a great photo-op. But the best way for Bush to show his support is by providing adequate funding for programs to help autistic children.

Information source: http://thinkprogress.org/

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Number of suisides
Posted by: Ghoulman on Jul 20, 2006 8:17 AM   
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First of all, I'd like to say the majority of the posts, trolls aside, are heart felt. Those from ex-soldiers, letting people know their experience over the spin, are truely dramatic. Thank you all.

Now a member of Gold Star Families for Peace, Jones says she’s “forming a subchapter support group to help with military families who’ve had a suicide” after their loved one returned home.

“So far we know of about 70” such tragedies, she says


Wha... 70??? Isn't that a terrifically HIGH number? Just how many US troops are comming home like this? Let's be clear, the tours US soldiers are doing in Iraq are, I believe, the most demanding ever put on a US soldier. Tours a whole year long, even longer. Incredible! And you get recalled for another tour or else! Every corner of military service is rounded up, the poor lad in this story was a reservist for Jesus sake! And all those benefits and bonuses were canceled eh? And the back-door draft has been going on for three years.

It's hard to tell with US news constantly spitting "support the troops" jingoism without actually going out and finding the true experience of soldiers. No, interviews don't count, soldiers are ordered and trained to respond to media once "debriefed" before even being allowed to step on US soil.

It's clear the VA is full of it. What's really happening here?

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» RE: Number of suisides sickofsleaze Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» SUICIDE Posted by: fifthworld
truth is truth, upside down or not, no matter.
Posted by: concerned Canadian on Jul 20, 2006 8:43 AM   
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You miss the point entirely it seems. Noone is attacking Bush. The attack is against those who want to f with truth, with the Constitution, with the law. And if that's what Bush is doing then ok, let it all fly. The target is not a person; the target is anyone, anything, , especially one who purports to lead America in its democratic direction, who is a scheming contradictory to constitutional law son of another B who wants to misguide the strength and will of the American people for his own aims - and what the hell is that? What is the opposite of truth and consitutional law? Go figure and then act.

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SEp/ 11 day of truth
Posted by: concerned Canadian on Jul 20, 2006 8:48 AM   
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May every returned soldier, every person gather at the Wall that day and utter a prayer for those who gave their lives for what they believed in. May all those utter a prayer and take action to return to constitutional law and leaders who believe in this. If cannon fodder is what the ordinary soldier is considered then what?

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» concerned Canadian Posted by: tuff_bird
sickofsleaze Re Sept 11/Day of Truth
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 20, 2006 8:56 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Where are we? A long way up Shit Creek with no clear way to get back

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Friend of Jason
Posted by: Gillelandj@aib.edu on Jul 20, 2006 9:07 AM   
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I'm so glad that Jason's story is being shared with everyone. He was an amazing person. I've known him for a long time. I neverthoughtI'd have the chance to be so close as I was to him shortly after he came back from Iraq. We dated for a short time, two months before he took his life. We slowly grew apart when he decided he still loved his past girlfriend. Little did I know he was suffering. The last time I spoke to him was on July 4th just ten days before he took his life. He looked for help from anyone who would help but none of us, his friends, knew of his pain. More professional help is needed for soldiers suffering.
My thoughts and prayers are with Jason's family and friends.
I love you and miss you Jas.

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Hitting me in the heart
Posted by: clzatzman on Jul 20, 2006 9:38 AM   
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My heart goes out to this mother, and she will be in my prayers for as long as I can remember (that's a long time). My own son told me he was going to join the military and I begged him not to go. He's not likely to be able to create some cushy state-side job for himself -- he would be sent straight to Iraq because he quit highschool when he turned 18. I reminded him of the bodies of 2 recent young men who were returned home (dead) to their families after being brutally tortured. I showed him some alternet stories about exiles currently in Canada (thank G-d for Canada) who just couldn't bear going back to Iraq because of PTSD, and who could barely function in their lives now. He agreed not to enlist ....

Hanging your flag upside down, and telling of your losses, hopefully will help these slow-witted American conservatives see that we are fighting in Iraq to preserve the oil interests of the President's cronies -- no more, no less. In the process we are killing (physically, psychologically, and spiritually) far too many young men. We need to take up the chant I saw posted as graffiti in Scotland several years ago "NO BLOOD FOR OIL."

As Americans, we CAN and MUST do something to "stop the madman" running the country: Immediately contact your elected senators and representatives and tell them to impeach this criminal (President Bush has blatantly violated the US Constitution on numerous occasions, as well as violating many treaties that are controlling law. He's a criminal. And this congress was going to impeach Bill Clinton for "lying" about sleeping around?!?!?!?!?!? What about this maniac who is sending all these young men to die or be damaged in the name of cronyism?????)

Do you have the brass tacks to contact your representatives and tell them to take action or start looking for new work? I already told all of mine. Nothing is happening yet .... Get on the horn, write a letter, send an email -- heck, do all 3: that is what I did. And I'll do it again and again until someone actually stands up for the law. You know, if we made is so they could only receive their "full salary for live" retirement benefit based upon a vote of their constituents, and we told them we would ensure they lose that also .... bet you'd see some steam flying as they tried to protect their own economic interest!!!!

Love and blessings,
Cindy Zatzman

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Sneaking Our War Dead Home
Posted by: YANIRA06_66 on Jul 20, 2006 9:40 AM   
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President George Bush calls it an act of privacy in prohibiting the pictures of American coffins returning from the war fronts. I call it typical Bush political cowardice - out of sight, out of mind.

All Americans should fly the American Flag upside down. It is the universal signal of distress!

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Refuse to serve
Posted by: badkitty on Jul 20, 2006 10:19 AM   
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That's about it. If you're in the military and you're ordered to deploy to Iraq, refuse to serve in this illegal pre-emptive war of aggression. During Vietnam some of my friends went to jail rather than serve (some are Canadian citizens now, too).

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» RE: efuse to serve Posted by: gonzoskismet
Eastcoker
Posted by: EQdi on Jul 20, 2006 10:20 AM   
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Many others will need your words and wisdom in the months and years ahead. You hang in there buddy, we'll be sending you our thoughts.

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mad/as/hell
Posted by: mad/as/hell on Jul 20, 2006 11:30 AM   
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I have been flying my American flag sticker upside down in my car's rear window since Sept. 12, 2001. I live in a military town. It is shameful to me that this being a "Navy" town that I have been accosted in parking lots, been flipped off on the road, have had cars tailgate me, try to run me off the road and have had on 3 occasions my rear window broken out. I have been verbally assaulted innumerable times, been called a coward, communist, and have been told that "if you don't like it move to Cuba." Incidentally I served my country in the first Gulf war proudly and honorably, and retired a Lt Col. But this mess we find ourselves in has no honor, except possibly the honor among the thieves @1600 Pennsylvania Ave. God bless this woman and her son, may she someday find peace.

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» One wonders... Posted by: JoshuaLudd
» RE: mad/as/hell Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» RE: mad/as/hell Posted by: mkeeling@jam.rr.com
HOW
Posted by: BluTexan on Jul 20, 2006 11:34 AM   
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How does an old marine stop crying for what this president and his war have done to my Corp and my Country? Bless all our Soldiers and their Families.

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» RE: HOW Posted by: mad/as/hell
Cowards, all of them
Posted by: donnaj on Jul 20, 2006 12:39 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They guy that turned your flag upside, wrote the letter, and stole your flag was a coward. If he was so proud as he claims, then why didn't he sign the letter? Why? Simple. He's a coward just like all the pro war Bushies. All cowards.

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» Attack of the Can't-Serve-atives. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
How do we get stories like this
Posted by: alternetty on Jul 20, 2006 2:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
out into the mainstream media— where scores of millions of Americans get their ONLY source of news and information?

A story like this isn't likely to change the minds of die-hard, pro-war, America-can-do-no-wrong authoritarian types, but I have to believe it would generate compassion, outrage and, perhaps, even activism in average Americans whose busy lives and minimal exposure to these tragic stories have kept them subdued and silent for far too long.

For now, my only suggestion is that we all pass along this heart-breaking story to others and encourage them to subscribe to alternative media sources like AlterNet.

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» People know... Posted by: k9disc
Let me get this straight:
Posted by: cthelyt on Jul 20, 2006 3:34 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A grieving mother searching for inner peace and trying to make sense of things pours her heart out over losing her son, is completely within her rights to fly the US flag upside down on her property, fully knowing that it represents a distress signal and giving excellent reasons for doing so--and some people think her act desecrates the flag, prompting them to trespass upon her property and "correct" its orientation or even steal it and the pole it flies on.

Meanwhile, we have a president, vice president, Cabinet, Congress, and pretty much an entire government that starts wars based on lies, spies on citizens without warrants or probable cause, detains them and others without legal counsel or due process, tortures same while asserting the "quaintness" of treaties ratified by the Senate and held by the Constitution to be as much the law of the land as that document itself, claims unlimited presidential powers in times of war declared not by Congress but by the president alone, cuts funding for veterans and their medical care while claiming to support the troops, grants lucrative supply contracts to corporations with close ties to administration members, funds private corporate armies of mercenaries that are legally accountable to no one, pretty much says that it's okay to kill and maim the children of our brown-skinned "adversaries" while staging photo-ops with cute blond kids to claim reverence for the human life in surplus embryos, cuts income and estate taxes for billionaires while evicting homeless refugees from Hurricane Katrina from their FEMA trailers, says there's no money to honor Social Security obligations for boomers who've contributed to the program all their lives but somehow finds all the money needed to fund all the killing and destroying wanted--and does all of this while either wrapped in or waving the US flag (right side up) and hiding their efforts to avoid putting their own lives on the line when they had a chance to, indeed shredding and burning all the evidence attesting to same. And these acts do not desecrate the flag. In other words, all one need do to avoid desecrating it is to hide behind it or wave it? Hmm. Okay.

I thought Rod Serling died years ago. Is this one of the Twilight Zone's missing episodes? How does it end, and how can I switch it off?

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Re: Upside down flags
Posted by: Snott on Jul 20, 2006 4:21 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some of the sad and beautiful eulogies for innocence and lives lost and irrevocably changed brought tears to my eyes, too. My brother-in-law, a corpsman (navy medic) came back from Vietnam wounded in spirit. My very patient and kind sister and their loving communities helped heal him. I saw several men whose healing I didn't have much hope for. There are some lucky ones with loving families and communities who may help with their recovery, but there are so many who saw military service as a way to connect, or to get an education, or to be heroic, to grow up, "to be a man."

I'm going to bring up something that may not even have been considered yet - Depleted Uranium. I went to a public meeting where Military Families against the war spoke, as well as some other groups, including a young man (22) just back from Iraq. He was in Bagdad. His head was still spinning because of the disarray he saw all about him, and the constant escalation, with no positive progress in sight. He hadn't even heard about Depleted Uranium (DU). He suddenly started turning his questioning upon the people who'd come to hear him. He, of course, was patrolling in areas mightily bombed out, in tanks and vehicles that are "DU reinforced" and weapons that are loaded with DU containing armament. Like agent orange - will DU effects be denied? It's reprehensible that we are visisting this on generations of Iraqi people, but what about our own noble soldiers who don't even know about it?

I have this vision that we all turn our flags upside down, and maybe soon others will start doing it too, and then maybe all the remaining sane nations of the world will come to our aid? If they can get past the borders.

God bless you all who struggle with your own ghosts, with those of your loved ones, with our own sense of ineffectiveness. Don't give up! We must work for the more humane, human way of life. To think that there was even a question of whether the President of the United States could override the Geneva conventions about torture? Is this madness?

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US PERSON
Posted by: US Person on Jul 20, 2006 4:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I want to add my heartfelt condolences for this young mother who lost her son.
Ma'am, If its any comfort to you, I believe in your right to fly that bloody cloth upside down any time you want, and I think your son did too.

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Fresno Liberal
Posted by: Fresno Liberal on Jul 20, 2006 5:07 PM   
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I think that it would be great it we would all just put upside down flags on our homes in solidarity. The other person who commented about putting flag stamps upside down on envelopes also had a great idea. We could also put them on our cars. There are a lot of us here who feel for this mom. It would be our way of silently protesting. I will be getting my flag out and upside down as soon as I am done here.

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» Another car-posting strategy Posted by: fifthworld
Goddam Flaggots
Posted by: cold2touch on Jul 20, 2006 5:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Listen, I know that Kansas Board of Education will disagree.
A flag is a goddam rag, a piece of cloth with bullshit symbols printed on it.
So, this star is for tax cuts, this one is for elimination of inheritance tax, this one is $$ in the bank for Abramoff-Halliburton-Bechtel-etc. ad nauseam. This stripe signifies 10 cents/week wages in Marianas (Abramoff's "capitalist petrie dish"), ..., you get the idea. Is there a star and stripe for Constitution and the Amendments? How about affirmative action for those downtrodden over many generations? Sorry, no room, get out of the restaurant.
And I suspect that this is the reason Goddam Flaggots get uptight about flags, flags on lapel pins, flags in used car dealerships, flags in kiddie porno sites, all flying ramrod straight and upright, NRA and other family values wrapped in flag dripping with pious vomit of true salutin' flaggots like Ralph Reed.
Flags should be banned like pit bulls, burned one and all.
Decent societies don't fly flags at every corner with hookers and dope dealers under them.
Thou shall not worship false idols, hear ye?

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» Here here Posted by: fifthworld
JASON WAS MY SON
Posted by: pinkygirl38 on Jul 20, 2006 5:35 PM   
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I thank all of you for your heartfelt comments and your convictions. It is sad that it takes my flag flying upside down for someone to pay attention, even though it is my distress signal, it is the reason behind it that needs to be said. My story is a sad tragedy of what is quietly happening when our brave soldiers return home. And you are right, this war has been fought with many Guard and Reserve personnel. When Jason came home, his unit consisted of 108 men and women that lived between 3 states. They came home on a bus from Ft. Riley, scattered to their home towns, they were told thanks and have a nice life. No follow up, not even a single phone call. And to top it off the military knows that these suicides are happening, based on my phone calls to the VA to arrange his funeral, I was told by several different depts "so sorry for you loss, but just know that you are not the only one" I asked how many and they told me no one keeps track. So I started my own research and have reached about 70 names, and only because the families have been willing to speak to the press does it become public knowledge. So my guess would be, double the numbers.

PTSD is real, please educate yourself, lend a hand and a caring heart, make these vets feel comfortable to speak, go to counseling with them, locate Veitnam vets who are willing to offer support, anything to get these soldiers to start talking and healing. These soldiers lives now depend on the American people, they already know that they have been abandoned by their own government. Suicide is already a leading cause of death amongst 20 something year olds, add the trauma of war and we are looking at a disaster.

Terri Jones
Mother of SPC Jason Cooper
www.jason-cooper.memory-of.com

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» RE: JASON WAS MY SON Posted by: hagwind
» Thank you Posted by: Lizmv
» thank you terri Posted by: aurora2484
» RE: JASON WAS MY SON Posted by: gonzoskismet
A suggestion...
Posted by: alternetty on Jul 20, 2006 7:15 PM   
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If anyone here is struggling with the horrors of war or knows someone who is, I'd like to highly recommend the documentary VOICES OF WARTIME. It's the most moving and healing video I have seen on the subject of post-traumatic stress syndrome.

Read an excellent review here:
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0443691/

Apparently, the DVD can be ordered thru Amazon.

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This is insane
Posted by: cold2touch on Jul 20, 2006 7:26 PM   
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It is simply incomprehensible to a rational being, human, dolphin or anything more complex than kelp, how stupid Americans can be when it comes to absolutely irrelevant symbols.
Take a look at yourselves!
It's all about flag, flag this flag that, hey buddy how come your house doesn't have a 40 foot flagpole with perpetual hardon like mine. I bought my flag at Macy's, a steal at only $4000, look at the 300-stitch/inch Egyptian cotton on this baby.
The laughing stock of the whole world, including voodoo worshippers in Cameroon.
When an American Co sets up shop in Canada, like Home Depot, the first thing they do is hang out a Maple Leaf flag the size of a parking lot, as if to say, look, we are Canadian patriots, come and spend your loonies here.
Meanwhile, to the natives, it looks foreign and bizarre, the only time they drag out li'l paper things is on Canada Day and that's it, back in garbage where they rightfully belong. The TV anchors, pundits, talking heads, even politicians don't wear them in their lapels because they know damn well that people would laugh in their faces.
And yet the country survives and the patriotism thrives in a quiet stubborn self-deprecating way.
So, what is it, some sort of guilt or insecurity or inferiority complex?
Like a whoring husband who sneaks home with a bouqet of flowers for darling wifie.
If America is the greatest country that ever graced this planet, why can't it ignore some pissed off soul flying the flag upside down, instead of sending Larry King and crew of heroic New York cops + firemen to check out the story?

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» Hey, don't knock kelp Posted by: fifthworld
» No offense Posted by: cold2touch
» RE: This is insane Posted by: penguinziner
» Oh, yeah, Prine ... Posted by: cold2touch
No more perfect symbol
Posted by: xbj on Jul 21, 2006 12:15 AM   
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The US is at a very curious place in history, one for which I think I cannot find any historical analogy.

While the US has all the trappings and appearance of a real democracy, of course that is not the case; the US is run by a military/corporate cabal bent on world domination; there is but one political party, in charge, through Diebold and ES&S of the vote tallies. Amerika does not have a permanent dictator, but instead, revolving puppet dictators while the real power, the Triumvirate of Bush41, Cheney, and Rumsfeld run things from behind the scenes, as they have since 1976 when Bush41 took over the CIA.

This makes the real power virtually immune to all takeover attempts, because, until recently, they did not hold power publicly.

So yes, given the situation, the ONLY way Americans should be flying flags is upside down, the symbol of distress. Because there isn't anything they can do, short of armed revolution (which would surely fail) that can restore America to the democratic Republic it once was.

The only problem is, the only greater power that can come to the aid of real Americans are a newly combined alliance of China, Russia, and Islamic countries.

They won't be interesting in righting the flag; they will be far more interested in burning it. Unfortunately, the US government has killed so many innocents and done so much irreperable harm in the Mideast, no other outcome is likely at this point.

Which brings me back to the only analogy that fits, Nazi Germany. Although Hitler was not a puppet.

Perhaps Rome under Nero is a better analogy.

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Bloomin Black Sheep
Posted by: bloominblacksheep on Jul 21, 2006 11:58 AM   
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Unless things have changed since I was a kid growing up in the USMC during WWII and thereafter (and proud as punch of Brave Marines like ZBob, by the way) Marines, sure as Hell DO get Navy Crosses! The Marine Corps is considered part of the Department of the Navy, last time I checked!

By the way, Thanks, AgainstTheWind, for one beautiful letter and one proud to make me come from where I came from. As my Old Man would have told you, those who have known War, HATE War! CHICKENHawks are so well-named; their only battlefield is usually a videogame.

This is absolutely the best Alternet thread I have ever read! Feel like it has covered about four or five terrific subject areas in one!

I am all for flying a Big Distress Signal in solidarity with that Mom who lost her son and all the other Parents and Vets out there. Though I know the VA is trying to do their best (first hand) it is the Administration's LACK OF SUPPORT FOR THOSE THEY SEND TO WAR that is the problem. The War itself was bad enough, but then to fail to support the troop they send to fight it?

Please show your disgust, not only with your flags, but at the polls in November...

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» RE: Bloomin Black Sheep Posted by: gonzoskismet
re Joshua Ludd by sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jul 22, 2006 4:52 AM   
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Hey Good Buddy, you coined a good one with your Can't serve a tives! That would make a good campaign slogan

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» Thanks. Posted by: JoshuaLudd
Shame on everybody not supporting our soldiers
Posted by: Defendar on Jul 22, 2006 9:45 AM   
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Reading this article makes two things very clear. Most people have no idea how horrific war can be and I think only a sick soul actually wants war. Like the very sick souls we are fighting over in Iraq. These people gladly slaughter their own countrymen, women and children and call themselves freedom fighters. Yeah right, you got to be a total moron to believe that.

Second, most people seem to think if we just mind our own business and don't do anything anywhere we will be just fine.
Wrong! If we don't do anything it will only allow our enemies to grow stronger and stronger. Look up some history to get a clue about what would've happend if the USA would've hesitated just another year before getting involved in WWII. Hitler was so close to devestating weapons that just that one year would've been enough to give him the edge and all of you would be speaking German now, that is if you were allowed to live.

Also looking at history again you can see that every great empire (and the USA is an empire) that ever excisted did just fine as long as it showed strength and will to defend themselves. As soon as people had it to good, they got lazy and unwilling to pay the price for their way of life and freedom. Well they all paid the ultimate price when their enemies took advantage of their weaknesses.

What bothers me about the Iraq war is not the fact that we are in it, not the fact that great soldiers have died fighting it it, but what really bothers me is the lack of leadership to bring this war to an end with all means neccessary, meaning actually using our superior fire power.

No army has ever won a war against total criminals (to say the least) with one hand tied behind their backs.

And it is uneducated, lazy and selfish people in this country who spit on our soldiers defending their very existence. Believe me, if these so called "freedom fighters" ever make it here, you heads will be the first to be cut off. And I'll bet that you wish at that point you never would've disrespected a soldier.

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» A FUCKING MEN!!!!!!!!! Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» Pigeon snot wad on crystal meth Posted by: fifthworld
Movie: The War Tapes - please go see it.
Posted by: deo508 on Jul 22, 2006 12:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched it last night at the Academy of Music Theater in Northampton MA. It was filmed in the same documentary style as Gunner Palace and Occupation:Dreamland - both excellent docs as well.
There were three principle Natl Guard soldeirs from Mass and New Hamp who held cameras for their entire deployment. All three were very different in kinds of men, all three are going around and giving Q & A's at opening screenings around the country. For a movie that did not intend at the outset to give a pro/con on the war, it is about the soldiers experience, it does leave the viewer with the notion that the three soldiers now are certainly against the war and also very troubled as to the reasons for the war, whether or not their service meant anything - it is in fact very disturbing because you watch them resist the revelations that have with regards to what in the world were they doing in Iraq. They all reasoned that the entire war is anbout making money.
After the film one of the soldiers and his partner gave a Q&A and they were boith very giving and revealingly honest. This particular soldier wrote poignent and heartbreaking letters and journals and read (on screen) - all three men are unique and honest and hurt by what they did and saw in Iraq.
If you care about "THE TROOPS" one way or another, this film will alter what you think. Peace

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Two more great things about this article
Posted by: fifthworld on Jul 22, 2006 12:51 PM   
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First, "committed suicide" wasn't used (although "suicide" was, admittedly) -- just why that sick term denoting illegality is still used puzzles me. Give the dead a break, regardless what you think of moral or spiritual laws.

In fact, how many of us have asked "Where's Jack Kevorkian when you want him?" With no offense whatsoever to the soldier Jason here, I think Americans' taking their lives should be more broadly encouraged.

Second, "hanged" was properly used, rather than "hung", which I'm sick of! Yuk!!

Thanks for your time.

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I'd hang myself too If I had to come home to this self-absorbed liberal bitch
Posted by: aginghippiefreak on Jul 23, 2006 10:18 AM   
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On second thought, I'd probably just blow my brains out.

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Thomas T. Panto - VETERAN
Posted by: BeyondBeliefs on Jul 23, 2006 1:37 PM   
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My flag hangs upside down at the bottom of the pole with a wooden stake holding it half in the ground.

And it will remain there until we hang the lying greedy bastards who put our kids into harms way for NOTHING BUT a RULERS GREED for OIL.

I did not risk my life so that these FEW oil tycoons, OCCUPYING our Capitol, could BUY our ''free Press'' and manufacture LIES and manipulate our citizens into killing and dying for NOTHING but those LIES.

EVERYONE TOLD YOU the TRUTH EXCEPT Washington. Iraq had NOTHING in 1991, and had NOTHING in 2002. JUST OIL. Saddam DEFENDED HIS OWN COUNTRY from OUR OPERATIVES from Saudi Arabia, American held Iran and KuWait. Saddam DEFENDED His Country from OUR DEVIL DEEDS. 27 MILLION PEOPLE have lost their freedom because of OUR LIES for NOTHNG but OIL.

My flag hangs upside down until these politicians and operatives currently occupying our Whithouse are hang upside down.

Burn FLAGS, not PEOPLE.

And just look at what thier inspiration and OUR weapons are doing in Lebanon. Isreal abducts and murders THOUSANDS every Year using OUR MONEY and USING OUR tanks and Gunships.

Power CORRUPTS. Here and EVERUWHERE. WE are responsible for THAT INSANE SLAUGHTER in Palestine and Lebanon just as we are in Iraq.

You want to salute this flag ? It under my feet next to the DEAD.

MURDER

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montana freeman
Posted by: montana freeman on Jul 23, 2006 7:00 PM   
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i say fuck that i would like to fly that son of a bitch bush and all the other motherfuckers that are getting rich off the deaths of out sons and daughters upside down , in a really good way!!

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America is Done, Put a Fork in It
Posted by: mn on Jul 24, 2006 12:25 AM   
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The USA has to go now. The criminals in Washington D.C. have to go to jail now. The criminals in Washington D.C. have to get strapped to the gurney now, and take their medicine like men. This is a war. We lost after the 60s, the bastards coopted us. This time they are gonna burn like phospherous. Sorry criminals, we have to take care of business. Our children are too precious, we cannot have you running loose about the neighborhood. Pack your bags, say your goodbyes. It is all DONE...www.nevadacityfreepress.com.

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