COMMENTS: 238
The Right's War on Contraception
Sign up to stay up to date on the latest Civil Liberties headlines via email.
In an equally riveting mystery, women have disappeared from the story of attacks on contraception.
When the New York Times Magazine published a watershed story in early May, "The War on Contraception," the Times Web site noted it was their most e-mailed story of the day. Of course it was snapped up. What rational person can believe that any but crackpots could oppose using birth control to prevent pregnancy?
I tore into the article hoping it would unearth and expose the true reproductive rights battle lines. This is a struggle often masquerading as a moral controversy. At its roots, however, it's about sex and power; whether women will be allowed to keep striving for an equal place in society or confined, as much as possible, to the nursery.
The author, Russell Shorto, did a fine job detailing the dueling philosophies of abstinence-only sex education versus comprehensive sex education. Comprehensive programs teach decision-making skills and provide medically accurate information, including facts about abstinence, sex, relationships and childbearing. Abstinence-only programs exhort unmarried people to "just say no."
Primal Motive Missed
My high hopes for Shorto's article plummeted when he failed to discuss the underlying, almost primal, opposition to women's equality inherent in both the abstinence-only movement and the attacks on birth-control access.
Shorto also failed to discuss the female casualties of this contraception battle. A clue to their whereabouts can be found in a Guttmacher Institute study, "A Tale of Two Americas for Women," published the same week as the Shorto piece.
Guttmacher finds a 29 percent rise in unintended pregnancies and abortions since 1994 among low-income women whose access to low-cost contraception has declined dramatically as a result of the attacks on contraception. For example, funding for Title X of the Public Health Services Act -- the backbone of subsidized family planning health services for low-income uninsured women -- is less than half what it was in 1980 when adjusted for inflation. The program faces a pitched battle in Congress every year just to maintain level funding.
Meanwhile, funding for abstinence-only programs that provide no health services has catapulted from near-zero to almost equal Title X. It's no surprise then that low-income women feel the heel of this particular anti-woman boot.
Among higher-income women, in contrast, unintended pregnancies and abortions have declined by a significant 20 percent. They can afford the rising costs of birth control including very effective newer methods such as injectable contraceptives. They have greater access to uncensored information on the Web and the wherewithal to drive across town to get their prescription filled when their neighborhood pharmacist refuses.
Politically Invisible
Restrictions on access fall most heavily on young and low-income women who are the most vulnerable, have the fewest resources with which to advocate for themselves and are thus politically speaking invisible.
Birth control frees women to forge their own paths by separating sex from procreation. This strikes fear into those who, underneath it all, oppose the increased social power women attain from expanded equality and justice. Proof of this?
James Leon Holmes, nominated by President Bush and confirmed by the Senate to the U.S. District Court in the Eastern District of Arkansas, says it straight out in an article: "It is not coincidental that the feminist movement brought with it artificial contraception ... To the extent we adopt the feminist principle that the distinction between the sexes is of no consequence and should be disregarded in the organization of society and the Church, we are contributing to the culture of death." His stated solution is that " ... the wife is to subordinate herself to her husband."
The Times article suggests that organized opposition to birth control was motivated by Supreme Court decisions legalizing birth control (Griswold v. Connecticut, 41 years ago this month) and abortion (Roe v. Wade in 1973) as though it was only women's recent and brazen push for this form of reproductive control that ignited this conflict. In truth, contraception has been a political football in the United States for a long time.
In 1913, Margaret Sanger, founder of the American birth control movement, wrote a sex education column for The Call newspaper, entitled "What Every Girl Should Know." That is, she wrote it until a warrant was issued for her arrest for violating the Comstock Laws, which made it a crime to circulate "obscenity" through the mail. In place of the column, The Call's editors ran an empty box reading: "What Every Girl Should Know -- nothing, by order of the U.S. Post Office!"
Anti-Vice Crusader
The laws were named for Anthony Comstock, whose Society for the Prevention of Vice rammed through state and federal laws against contraception and even information about contraception beginning in 1873. Some of these laws remained on the books well into the 1970s. Comstock boasted that he had destroyed hundreds of tons of "lewd and lascivious material," including 60,000 "obscene rubber articles." You might call them condoms.
Comstock is still around today in the form of people who can't tell the difference between medical information and pornography, between healthy sexuality and promiscuity. He's also around in the form of people who don't trust women to handle authority.
Just last week, for instance, when the Episcopal Church elected Bishop Katharine Jefferts Schori its first female presiding bishop, a fellow priest who opposes the ordination of women altogether, voiced this fundamental prejudice.
"Just like we can't use grape juice and saltines for communion because it isn't the right matter, we do not believe the right matter is being offered here," he said.
What makes this offended reverend "the right matter" and Schori the "wrong matter?" Is this weird his-and-hers code for genitalia? Roe gave those who are basically opposed to women's equality a new political whipping girl. Many leading pundits and commentators assumed the opposition was based on religious beliefs and was limited to abortion. But lately they have begun clambering out from under their anti-contraception rock and the battle lines are becoming clearer than ever.
A woman's bodily integrity, her moral autonomy, her health, her very life depend on whether she has access not just to the right to reproductive freedom but also to the health care and education services that make rights meaningful. Circumstances do not change that principle. Nor is the human right to reproductive self-determination divisible. You either have it or you don't. There's nothing mysterious about that.
Stay up to date with the latest Civil Liberties headlines via email
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jul 3, 2006 3:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: paulaH
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ekinney
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: derfb1
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame (& racist genocide myths)
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ecoMamaNY
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: lively56
» Thou shalt be stupid
Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Thou shalt be stupid
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» Were there female chauvinist pigs before 1960?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Were there female chauvinist pigs before 1960?
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Were there female chauvinist pigs before 1960?
Posted by: CollD
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: Trytobeaware
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» Men Run Religion?
Posted by: Joe Ox
» Women Run Religion?
Posted by: Burton
» what a joke
Posted by: CollD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 3, 2006 4:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» History of Christianity 101
Posted by: mirimac
» RE: History of Christianity 101??? YOU MEAN 666...
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: sexism -- RIGHT! -- Sexism is the root cause of terrorism and environmental destruction
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: sexism -- RIGHT! -- Sexism is the root cause of terrorism and environmental destruction
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: sexism -- RIGHT! -- Sexism is the root cause of terrorism and environmental destruction
Posted by: pure_genius
» WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!
Posted by: chasaturn
» RE: WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: GOD DIDN'T MAKE
Posted by: SamFox
» Can't Debate It
Posted by: Joe Ox
» Start your own religion
Posted by: Burton
» RE: Start your own religion
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Start your own religion
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: sexism??? rsaxto, WHAT SILLY GOSPELS ARE YOU
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mtodorov_69 on Jul 3, 2006 4:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it accidental that poor women go to abortion? If the father is rich, would they still, or would they prefer an old, traditional shut-gun wedding then? If he was a millionaire?
Of course, you are guessing the answer.
The poor man's offspring ends in lab for medicine improvement, and the rich guys seed gets to see the day.
This is the result of you women being equal. I am not saying there are not irresponsible fathers, but the answer is: "Yes, if you eat too much cookies you get fat as a consequence, and if you have sex you can and eventually will stay pregnant."
Killing unborn baby because you don't feel like raising it, but you want to enjoy sex is just as you ate 10 pounds of cookies each day because you can afford liposuction each month.
And in liposuction, nobody is yet killed.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Enjoy Sex? What a Blasphemous Idea...
Posted by: terradea
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: pure_genius
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: madmac10
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: mtodorov_69
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: auntikrist
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: mtodorov_69
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: raging granny
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: raging granny
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: And in liposuction, nobody is yet killed.
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: Fathers' Rights
Posted by: benzene
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: luckycef
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Maya on Jul 3, 2006 5:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And that is something you, men, will never understand because you do not have the capacity to make life. So, it is non of your business and should just stay out of the whole contraceptive/abortion discussion.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: tintobrash
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: auntikrist
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Women havnds of years; Maya,. yoohoo-
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Citizendeane on Jul 3, 2006 6:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Fine article, very strange comments
Posted by: ladyoracle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 3, 2006 6:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, women have not been treated fairly. In some cases, women have been recipients of special benefits. But the history is clear that poor women, whether oppressed or not, may well have had a difficult life because of their responsibilities as mothers.
But I am tired of being yelled at because I am a man. I am tired of being blamed for public attitudes and policies I have worked all my days to oppose. And I am tired of women using their gift of birthing children as an excuse to beat on us and control us.
The number of “you men” statements in this thread is sickening. How did liberation become so hateful and grossly prejudicial? Blaming men for the divisions in women’s attitudes distorts our common experience so dreadfully as to be almost laughable. Neither gender has a monopoly on morality.
How much more freedom do we have to have to grow up and take responsibility for ourselves? When will this incessant childishness of blaming others cease?
I interpret the point of this article to indicate that we are living through another Dark Ages. But as Unamuno reminds us, "It's the cold that kills; not the dark. Not more light but more warmth" is what we need.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» "You men"?
Posted by: Allison
» RE: "You men"?
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» you're exaggerating
Posted by: Allison
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: somecrazydream
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» WOW
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Handmaid's Tale
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» What?
Posted by: owleyes
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FauxPorteno on Jul 3, 2006 7:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interestingly enough men AND MEN alone are responsible for restricting access to birth control. Does anyone really believe that there are more fundamentalist men than women out there? Do you really? To be brutally honest I have known more backwards, right-wing Christian women than men who oppose abortion and birth control and let me tell you this: they were much more outspoken and active in protesting Planned Parenthood locations one of which was located 50 meters from an apartment complex I inhabited for 2 years! In addition wealthy, white women have enormous influence on their powerful, white husbands (the obvious culprits) and to deny their roles in this is hypocritical to the point of being ridiculous. I know this is not always the case but in many conservative enclaves where issues like these are concerned, politicians act in accordance with what their constituency wishes and as far as I know that still includes women.
"Birth control frees women to forge their own paths by separating sex from procreation." It sure does and last I saw condoms were still a bargain when weighed against the emotional and financial cost of abortion or raising a child. If a man refuses to use them then a women can kindly tell him to get lost! If she really doesn't want to get pregnant she can abstain but we can't ask that of humans. The final option is for all women (52% of the population) to get together and demand better treatment! Want to know why this will never happen?? Because 50% of women think just like these neocon pigs but women just hate the idea that they may actually be partly responsible for their own dilemma and therefore unable to blame men like they have been doing.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Hypocrisy
Posted by: benzene
» Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: benzene
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» Real victims come one by one, not in a gender action suite. Why is that idea such a threat?
Posted by: Sojourner
» Women Run Church
Posted by: Joe Ox
» Love the name there benzene
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: This just in from the MEN vs. WOMEN news desk!!
Posted by: CollD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mtodorov_69 on Jul 3, 2006 7:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The decision about pregancy, in their opinion, is woman's monopoly, since it is her body.
Likewise it is possible to feed the country by having only ground and no seeds - everybody dies. Child inevitably holds the genes of both parents. Slightly more mithochondric female DNA, to be precise, if the science is correct.
If we aborted unborn monkey's, we would be nailed down by animal protection activists. And nobody sane is doing it. But when humans are in question, then we have "higher interests". And such interest is often money.
1) Money must not have a role in deciding who will live and who will not.
2) Father also suffers emotional damage from losing unborn baby
3) Life is precious. Nobody should have authority over deciding who will live and who will not.
The fact that it is troubling to have many children only increases need for restraint, not for abortion. I don't eat expecting that my eating habit will be corrected through surgery; I don't drive reckless because there are blood donators and surgeons who will patch me; I should also not have sex because there is a surgical or chemical "remedy" to uncontrolled sexual desire.
It is wrong. Self-control is what makes me human.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: benzene
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: mtodorov_69
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly and FUTHER MORE
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: When will men take more responsibility?
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: mtodorov_69
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writeval on Jul 3, 2006 7:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love organized religion. It isn't about spirituality in the slightest (I so love the "Who would Jesus bomb?" bumper stickers -- right on); it's about instilling fear and prejudice to manipulate the masses who won't think for themselves, for the sole purpose of geopolitical gain for the handful of Old Guys at the top of the hierarchy.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The Man Behind the Curtain
Posted by: mirimac
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 3, 2006 7:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A multi-generational Stockholm Syndrome.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on Jul 3, 2006 7:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Hogwash
Posted by: Joe Ox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: benzene on Jul 3, 2006 8:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How long before it comes to that?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE:YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: benzene
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: YO--CELTICSWEETGRASS--WHO SAYS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: deha on Jul 3, 2006 8:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Human history has shown, time and again, that telling people not to have sex unless they are deliberately trying to reproduce DOES NOT WORK. It didn't work in the ancient world, in the Middle Ages, during the Industrial Revolution, or at any other time in history, and it doesn't work now.
I don't usually resort to ad hominem attacks, but anyone who attempts to reframe the debate about access to contraception into a debate about abortion is a fucking moron.
Anyone who is opposed to abortion and who doesn't work to assure that every woman has access to reproductive education and contraception so that abortion becomes rare is a hypocrite of the highest magnitude. Especially if you have EVER had sexual intercourse without the express intent of creating a child. Male or female, it doesn't matter - you are a hypocrite.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Hypocrites changing the subject
Posted by: BlueTigress
» "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: deha
» RE: "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: deha
» Too Sensitive
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Too Sensitive
Posted by: LPB
» RE: Too Sensitive
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Too Sensitive
Posted by: LPB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LRayn on Jul 3, 2006 9:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I should also not have sex because there is a surgical or chemical "remedy" to uncontrolled sexual desire."
Bullshit. Sex is a good thing. Using contraception to avoid pregnancy is a good thing. Making it easier for women to control our own destinies is a good thing.
The idea that sexual desire is bad and must be "controlled" is straight out of Medieval Christianity. Backward ideas about sexual "purity" are not progressive or democratic. They are old fashioned patriarchal religious beliefs. In America, we have no state religion. Fundamentalist Christians have no right to force their religious views on everyone else.
It is my right as an American citizen to have easy access to safe and effective birth control.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Sex is good. Don't listen to the religious right! WHO SHOULD WE
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Sex is good. Don't listen to the religious right! WHO SHOULD WE
Posted by: sallyjrw
» RE: Sex is good...GOD MADE IT!!!WHO SHOULD WE LISTEN TO???
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Sex is good...GOD MADE IT!!!WHO SHOULD WE LISTEN TO???
Posted by: sallyjrw
» RE: Sex is good...GOD MADE IT! HI sallyjrw...
Posted by: SamFox
» are you happy?
Posted by: Joachim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pixiequix on Jul 3, 2006 1:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Keep your dogma outta my uterus.
Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Keep your dogma outta my uterus.
Posted by: pixiequix
» RE: WISH I KNEW ABOUT WILD CARROT SEED WAY BACK
Posted by: SamFox
» Wild Carrot
Posted by: Joe Ox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pianojo on Jul 3, 2006 1:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am SICK TO DEATH of religious NUTS AND IDIOTS - be they men OR women - thinking they have the RIGHT to tell me what I may or may not do with MY OWN GOD-DAMNED BODY!!!!!!!!
If you don't want to avail yourself of birth control or abortion - fine. That is your right and that is your choice.
But kindly FUCK OFF and allow me the courtesy of the same right to choose whether or not I wish to to use birth control or abotion.
It's none of you GOD-DAMNED BUSINESS!!!!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» please explain . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» Thank You....I've always said it!
Posted by: sirossisofliver
» I agree
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: I agree
Posted by: LPB
» Check Again
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Check Again
Posted by: LPB
» RE: I agree
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fork on Jul 3, 2006 3:21 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're always so quick off the mark in responding to any women's type issue and going off on this tangent. It's almost impossible to have any kind of progressive discussion that doesn't degenerate into this simplistic lowest-common-denominator drivel.
There are so many other sites (the vast majority of mainstream media sources) that would be more suitable to your ideology, and there are so few truly progressive sites. Is this really your objective, to rush in and stifle any non-conservative debate? If it's not, then you should try listening and practicing a bit of self-restraint.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: Ratskii
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LPB on Jul 3, 2006 3:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, who is MOSTLY in charge of religious instruction? Men. Who gives most of the sermons and writes most of the material which is taught in most churches? Men.
My conclusion is this: Yes, many women do oppose abortion, for different reasons. But many of those women oppose abortions because they were taught by their religious leaders, most of whom were men, to do so. The prevailing religion in America, Christianity, teaches that women should subordinate themselves to men, or at least many Christian churches teach this.
So using the fact that many women are also against abortion, and for the anti-birth-control policies, as proof that these policies don't hurt or penalize women is not entirely a valid point, because if they weren't taught by (mostly) men from the time that they were children to view abortion and sex for pleasure as sins for women, many of these women would feel differently about both issues.
So again, birth control, as well as abortion, is being restricted by mostly men!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: In response to comments about women who are against abortion
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE:
Posted by: CollD
» "Now, who is MOSTLY in charge of religious instruction? Men.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: In response to comments: NICE TRY BUT YOU GET NO
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: NICE TRY
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: NICE TRY:STILL NO CIGAR--YOU, LIKE MOST POSTERS
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: NICE TRY: STILL NO CIGAR
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: NICE TRY: STILL NO CIGAR
Posted by: sirossisofliver
» RE: HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Posted by: CollD
» So women are automons?
Posted by: Burton
» RE: So women are automons?
Posted by: LPB
» Answer: So women are automons?
Posted by: Burton
» Who is the brainwashee
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Jul 3, 2006 3:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been born gay in a mostly gay-hating world was no blessing, but women have it much tougher, since they can be (and usually allow themselves to be) controlled by impregnation. However, they themselves must take control of their reproduction.
Having been so thoroughly conditioned to feel they NEED to be sexual objects, (traditional) "wives" (slaves!) and mothers in order to qualify as "real" women, makes it even tougher for them. They have to fight against their own internal tapes.
As a (predominantly) gay person, I had to switch off my own tapes about how I'm less than human, and deserve to be punished by society, and by the law. Women all over the world must do the same, if they really want to be free.
I was shocked and dismayed when American women failed to protect their own rights back in the 70s, when they rejected the Equal Rights Amendment, and since then "Feminism" in general. It reminds me of the pathetic US Gay Rights movement, which still seems more bent on its rights to drag parades and economic exploitation of the word "gay", than to its Equal Rights under the law (marriage, and its hundreds of automatic entitlements and family protections).
America is still ULTRA-conservative, sadly including those who suffer the most from it. Freedom (or lack of it) is, for most, a choice.
Steven Wanzell
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It's Not About Babies
Posted by: LPB
» Women opposed ERA
Posted by: Burton
» What about other sexual minorities?
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: excaliburtb1982 on Jul 3, 2006 4:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing... this article failed to link its facts with its title accusation of the right..
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Welcome to the New American Taliban and American Theocracy
Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» Feminist Taliban
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: enzolima on Jul 3, 2006 7:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: benzene on Jul 3, 2006 10:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: enzolima on Jul 4, 2006 2:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The possibilities.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Brilliant!
Posted by: sirossisofliver
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pbr90 on Jul 5, 2006 5:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly out of wedlock babies has always been a prime concern for men and women since it produces unwanted children. The increasing impact of the hierarchy of deterrents: social and economic stigma, birth control, and finally abortion has worked to reduce the social menace of unwanted babies. Prohibitions on abortion is a drastic measure couched in an inconsistent morality that favors men's rights over women's rights, not equal rights and social obligations.
For moral consistency, the social menace of pedophiles and rapists must also be addressed, and although it is the flip side of the abortion issue, it relates to the equal rights and social obligation to prevent men from the unequal social preference that allows them unlicensed or illicit sex that harms and endangers women. It is the other half of the sexual and gender social control as yet unaddressed since unwanted babies come from engagement with men who also ignore equal rights and social obligations. As a social menace, it lies near the top of everyone's priority, and though the fear of castration for men typically outweighs their movtivation to use it as an alternative to unwanted harms, there is as yet no hierarchy of controls over male gender to prevent them.
What difference is there, actually, in using social castration of women by social stigma of sex out of wedlock while allowing it for men, and chemical castration of men to prevent their uncontrollable sexual/predatory drives that result in years of incarceration? The perception that male sexual privilege is a right, while that for women is immoral is the heart of a double standard that justifies female control but not male control.
In a land where the death penalty exists, chemical castration may be more compassionate and lesser expense than incarceration as the answer to this social menace. If the Catholic Church had mandated chemical castration of priests, there would have been few pedophilia problems and they would have achieved their goal of virtuous priests in the model of a celibate Jesus. The fact that they haven't mandated this option shows the hypocrisy by which the Church attempts to accomplish its unequal status power dominion, but only at the expense of women and children.
If priests make the commitment to be celibate, and women are expected to be celibate unless married - in the moral context of human lifestyles - then, equal rights would suggest that celibacy for men is equally an option, and that castration is not beyond the human rights boundary of acceptability. Both women and Priests have been forced into the rules of celibacy for hundreds of years. Life without sex is not perceived as a diminution of their lives or their importance as persons.
While surgical castration admittedly evokes the horrors associated with that procedure, chemical castratiion is conceivable as a kindness for a social menace that is needed to control the sexual and violence oriented sexual appetites of men unable to control themselves.
If society aims to claim a right to determine the reproductive outcomes of women - by granting or prohibiting abortion, certainly the policy is applicable to males - by offering, or mandating castration as the alternative to enduring the social menace of irresponsble men as also the application to determine the reproductive outcome of men.
Sex, used responsibly, causes no unwanted pregnancies or births, nor does it produce victims of pedophilia and rape.
For equal rights to be just, castration like abortion would become legitimate methods of social control to prohibit the social menace of sex to destroy lives.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Why limit castration to male sex offenders? Sexual equality would require castration also for women.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Why limit castration to male sex offenders? Sexual equality would require castration also for wo
Posted by: LPB
» Now we know where the Nazis went
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: David M. Gindratt on Jul 5, 2006 7:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: the condom is better than abstinence
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WyrdSister on Jul 6, 2006 10:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to agree with this statement.
Just as alcohol prohabition did not work, just as the "war on drugs" prohibition is not working, so too sexual prohibition will not work.
The Morality Police can just sit down, take a breather. It does not matter one lick what you say or try to control, sex is going to happen.
Best everyone have ALL the information and protections so that informed choices can be made, anything else is just plain irresponsable.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Prohibition has never worked:THEN WHY NOT ABOLISH
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Prohibition has never worked
Posted by: WyrdSister
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kellygorski on Jul 7, 2006 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I completely agree with your arguments. We will always find misogyny in American culture, but what I find morally repulsive is that said ideology is barreling its way into the educational system under the guise of abstinence-only education.
As an educator and options counselor, I found myself teaching Language Arts full-time in a high school only to see a high percentage of my students at the clinic on Saturdays. Most of my students didn’t even know Planned Parenthood offered free contraceptives to them, but even though I referred to PP often, sometimes I saw the same faces again months later. They knew little about their bodies aside from what they learned in their seventh grade “family planning” class—and at 16, very few remember what little they learned.
The sexism we see in modern society is symbolized through the contraception war. Anti-choicers claim—rather adamantly—that the synthetic birth control utilized by women (no pill for men?) causes “microabortions” and that an early-trimester abortion is a catalyst for breast cancer. All this (what I call) disinformation is blatantly keeping all women, but especially the younger ones, from being successful, autonomous individuals who maintain sovereignty over their bodies. Women should never be slaves to their own sexuality (let alone another’s).
You stated, “A woman's bodily integrity, her moral autonomy, her health, her very life depend on whether she has access not just to the right to reproductive freedom but also to the health care and education services that make rights meaningful.” I think this is where we lose so many bright men and women in the feminist movement because very few see the link between reproductive choice and equality of the sexes. What is inherent in reproductive choice is education, information, and above all: the ability to achieve success and plan one’s life accordingly. There is no greater freedom than education and the ability to use it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» It's misandry!
Posted by: Burton
» RE: ducation & Equality: YOU WANT SOME EDUCATION??? GO ON DOWN
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: education
Posted by: WyrdSister
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 7, 2006 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So why then is there a problem at all? Maybe it is because increasing nunmbers of women buy into the anti-birth control movement? Or simply want to have children?
I know too many women who, even with access to birth control/abortion, decide they want to have a child (usually out of wedlock) for any of the following reasons:
"I want somebody to love."
"It will make my boyfriend love me."
"It will change my boyfriend."
"I want to be a mommy."
"Everyone else at work is getting pregnant."
"I want to change diapers" (seriously, I have heard this from women who were high-powered executives)
"I had nothing better to do."
There's a deeper problem here, and that is all the borth control in the world will not change primal human behavior.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women are 51%
Posted by: mazel
» RE: Women are 51%
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 7, 2006 7:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, "The Da Cinci Code" is fiction. This makes as much sense as saying that the "X-Files" mesmerizes viewers by spinning the tale of aliens who want to impregnate Earth women.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» And of course...
Posted by: Burton
» RE: Dan Brown is a big fat liar
Posted by: CollD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 8, 2006 4:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: thanks
Posted by: Burton
» RE: thanks
Posted by: morticia
» RE: thanks
Posted by: Burton
» RE: thanks
Posted by: morticia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joe Ox on Jul 8, 2006 10:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if the same kind of vitriol would show up about race if the issue presented itself. I doubt it.
What it tells me is buried not so deeply inside is a massive amount of resentment between men and women. Women because of past oppression and men because they feel even if they are innocent that they must walk on eggshells all the time for fear of inciting.
It really is a topic that could use a good study. In surveys and quiet data gathering this angst doesnt show up, but every single time the topic is remotely touched here the screaming begins, balming everyone, men blaming women, women blaming men, everyone blaming Christians, blaming Gearge Bush, whatever, but, men and women are still having a hard time getting along when discussing this.
Agreed?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Women are not oppressed
Posted by: Burton
» RE: Dang It He's Right
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 8, 2006 3:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, the human race is not being "killed". There are more people on this planet than ever.
Most of the hope for this planet comes from male inventions: science, technology, medicine, space travel.
Why don't you tell me what women have invented that has advanced the human race?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: morticia
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: Burton
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: morticia
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: mazel
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: LPB
» The truth comes out!
Posted by: Burton
» RE: The truth comes out!
Posted by: WyrdSister
» More truth
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 8, 2006 4:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've read both the book and seen the movie. Both are pretty good sci-fi and I recommend them. But that is all they are, science fiction, i.e., not real.
Some points:
First, "religion" does not run America. We are being run by (take thy pick) a one-party system masquerading with two faces; the corporations; a technocratic bureacracy; the Federal Reserve; the military-industrial-infotainment complex.
Insofar as rights are being taken away from us, this has happened under both liberals and conservatives: look at how the war on drugs, the war on terror, the war on Iraq, have been supported by all sides of the political spectrum. Indeed, it has been the religious conservative Congressman, Ron Paul, who has steadfastly opposed these attacks on the Bill of Rights.
Feminists did not get overly concerned about the destruction of the Bill of Rights owing to the war on drugs. No-knock raids, asset forfeiture, drug testing, profile searches, attacks on medical marijuana patients, etc., all have been supported by women. Female hysteria over so-called "date raype drugs" has led to the outlawing of legitimate pharmaceuticals.
The current head of the DEA, America's premier secret police agency, is a female. Just as Janet Reno was the attorney general who ordered the massacre at Waco.
And let us not forget that feminists have attacked fundamental rights of the accused, such as the right to confront one's accuser in court, via "raype shield" laws. As for "presumption of innocence", shall we bring up the feminist mantra "No woman lies about raype"?
So there's plenty of blame to go around on all sides for the destructions of our liberties.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Handmaid's Tale
Posted by: LPB
» So LPB surrenders
Posted by: Burton
» LPB lies about rape
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: christii on Jul 8, 2006 8:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are also the target audience of the advertisement campaigns ran by the pharmaceutical industry. When the Ortho Evra users are not told about blood clots or Wyeth hides/misrepresents data about its birth control and hormone replacement drugs -- do you think the "higher-income women" are anything but used? You think birth control pills, as they exist, are the best birth control option? Charting a menstrual cycle can be done using a tiny little magnifying glass and a lighted glass slide microscope. A nicely made one costs $30. For a reproductive lifetime of a poor or a rich woman. But of course, when millions of women are sufferring from a PMS -- "a debilitating condition" and when periods are a disruptive force in the economy birth control pills become indispensable.
To make taking birth control a sign of a modern, "feminist" attitude was a genius marketing idea.
If this simple pill once a day could really make me free, responsible and in control i would take it. As it is however, all i can expect is a bit of a weight gain and a hefty monthly bill.
P.S. i do know that birth control pills are sometimes used to treat serious medical conditions.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: birth control pills are overrated
Posted by: LPB
» RE: birth control pills are overrated
Posted by: christii
» RE: birth control pills are overrated
Posted by: LPB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WyrdSister on Jul 10, 2006 9:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you dont get it, you dont win. no one does. it just perpetuates the same ol' misogynistic attitudes.
thanks, man...your a peach.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SamFox on Jul 10, 2006 10:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christians would be just as upset as any one. We practice birth control using condoms and the pill.
If you are worried go on down to whatever store Circle-K, WalMart, the drug store...any shortage??? NNOOO!!
Somebody is erecting a straw condom, I mean horse...OOOHHH, straw would ssoooo hurt!
SamFox
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: WHAT WAR ON CONTRICEPTION AND
Posted by: Aim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eastcoker on Jul 14, 2006 12:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joachim on Jan 24, 2007 8:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
an object to be used then discarded, much like a Dixie Cup.
Sexual intercourse, the most intimate relationship, that speaks of genuine love becomes an arrid wasteland when birth control is used. It becomes a horrid thirst that is never quenched. It becomes a glutton which eats and eats and can never be satisfied yet tries to digest everything in sight while demanding to be fed with more and more vileness.
This relationship, has a spiritual dimension
and a psychological effect on persons. The beautiful' "I accept you because you are you and every part of you" is now turned into a lie. Personhood is destroyed rather than cherished. Empty dreams and broken promises are left in it's wake.
We began with birthcontrol -got more and more selfish -and ended with abortion and euthanasia. That is the logical conclusion.
Are we a better nation for it?
Are you cherished?
Are you happy?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ChristopherLL on Jul 3, 2006 3:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: paulaH
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ekinney
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: derfb1
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame (& racist genocide myths)
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ecoMamaNY
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: lively56
» Thou shalt be stupid
Posted by: Rolomax
» RE: Thou shalt be stupid
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» Were there female chauvinist pigs before 1960?
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Were there female chauvinist pigs before 1960?
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» RE: Were there female chauvinist pigs before 1960?
Posted by: CollD
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: Trytobeaware
» RE: Women Have "Equal" Blame
Posted by: ChristopherLL
» Men Run Religion?
Posted by: Joe Ox
» Women Run Religion?
Posted by: Burton
» what a joke
Posted by: CollD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 3, 2006 4:06 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» History of Christianity 101
Posted by: mirimac
» RE: History of Christianity 101??? YOU MEAN 666...
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: sexism -- RIGHT! -- Sexism is the root cause of terrorism and environmental destruction
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: sexism -- RIGHT! -- Sexism is the root cause of terrorism and environmental destruction
Posted by: Pat Kittle
» RE: sexism -- RIGHT! -- Sexism is the root cause of terrorism and environmental destruction
Posted by: pure_genius
» WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!
Posted by: chasaturn
» RE: WHAT A LOAD OF CRAP!!!
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: GOD DIDN'T MAKE
Posted by: SamFox
» Can't Debate It
Posted by: Joe Ox
» Start your own religion
Posted by: Burton
» RE: Start your own religion
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Start your own religion
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: sexism??? rsaxto, WHAT SILLY GOSPELS ARE YOU
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mtodorov_69 on Jul 3, 2006 4:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is it accidental that poor women go to abortion? If the father is rich, would they still, or would they prefer an old, traditional shut-gun wedding then? If he was a millionaire?
Of course, you are guessing the answer.
The poor man's offspring ends in lab for medicine improvement, and the rich guys seed gets to see the day.
This is the result of you women being equal. I am not saying there are not irresponsible fathers, but the answer is: "Yes, if you eat too much cookies you get fat as a consequence, and if you have sex you can and eventually will stay pregnant."
Killing unborn baby because you don't feel like raising it, but you want to enjoy sex is just as you ate 10 pounds of cookies each day because you can afford liposuction each month.
And in liposuction, nobody is yet killed.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Enjoy Sex? What a Blasphemous Idea...
Posted by: terradea
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: pure_genius
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: madmac10
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: mtodorov_69
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: auntikrist
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: mtodorov_69
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: raging granny
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: raging granny
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: And in liposuction, nobody is yet killed.
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: Fathers' Rights
Posted by: benzene
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: luckycef
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: janvdb
» RE: Artificial Contraception and Abortion Prefers Richer Offspring
Posted by: yellow
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Maya on Jul 3, 2006 5:33 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And that is something you, men, will never understand because you do not have the capacity to make life. So, it is non of your business and should just stay out of the whole contraceptive/abortion discussion.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: tintobrash
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: auntikrist
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: I think you're mistaken in your initial paragraph.
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Women have beein using contraceptives and abortion for thousands of years
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Women havnds of years; Maya,. yoohoo-
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Citizendeane on Jul 3, 2006 6:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Fine article, very strange comments
Posted by: ladyoracle
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Sojourner on Jul 3, 2006 6:39 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, women have not been treated fairly. In some cases, women have been recipients of special benefits. But the history is clear that poor women, whether oppressed or not, may well have had a difficult life because of their responsibilities as mothers.
But I am tired of being yelled at because I am a man. I am tired of being blamed for public attitudes and policies I have worked all my days to oppose. And I am tired of women using their gift of birthing children as an excuse to beat on us and control us.
The number of “you men” statements in this thread is sickening. How did liberation become so hateful and grossly prejudicial? Blaming men for the divisions in women’s attitudes distorts our common experience so dreadfully as to be almost laughable. Neither gender has a monopoly on morality.
How much more freedom do we have to have to grow up and take responsibility for ourselves? When will this incessant childishness of blaming others cease?
I interpret the point of this article to indicate that we are living through another Dark Ages. But as Unamuno reminds us, "It's the cold that kills; not the dark. Not more light but more warmth" is what we need.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» "You men"?
Posted by: Allison
» RE: "You men"?
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» you're exaggerating
Posted by: Allison
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: judithkrain
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: MatthewSavage
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: somecrazydream
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Children, children, it's time to grow up. Instead of blame, light a candle.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» WOW
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Handmaid's Tale
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» What?
Posted by: owleyes
Comments are closed-
Posted by: FauxPorteno on Jul 3, 2006 7:00 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Interestingly enough men AND MEN alone are responsible for restricting access to birth control. Does anyone really believe that there are more fundamentalist men than women out there? Do you really? To be brutally honest I have known more backwards, right-wing Christian women than men who oppose abortion and birth control and let me tell you this: they were much more outspoken and active in protesting Planned Parenthood locations one of which was located 50 meters from an apartment complex I inhabited for 2 years! In addition wealthy, white women have enormous influence on their powerful, white husbands (the obvious culprits) and to deny their roles in this is hypocritical to the point of being ridiculous. I know this is not always the case but in many conservative enclaves where issues like these are concerned, politicians act in accordance with what their constituency wishes and as far as I know that still includes women.
"Birth control frees women to forge their own paths by separating sex from procreation." It sure does and last I saw condoms were still a bargain when weighed against the emotional and financial cost of abortion or raising a child. If a man refuses to use them then a women can kindly tell him to get lost! If she really doesn't want to get pregnant she can abstain but we can't ask that of humans. The final option is for all women (52% of the population) to get together and demand better treatment! Want to know why this will never happen?? Because 50% of women think just like these neocon pigs but women just hate the idea that they may actually be partly responsible for their own dilemma and therefore unable to blame men like they have been doing.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Hypocrisy
Posted by: benzene
» Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: benzene
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Holier than thou is classic hypocrisy.
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» Real victims come one by one, not in a gender action suite. Why is that idea such a threat?
Posted by: Sojourner
» Women Run Church
Posted by: Joe Ox
» Love the name there benzene
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: This just in from the MEN vs. WOMEN news desk!!
Posted by: CollD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mtodorov_69 on Jul 3, 2006 7:24 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The decision about pregancy, in their opinion, is woman's monopoly, since it is her body.
Likewise it is possible to feed the country by having only ground and no seeds - everybody dies. Child inevitably holds the genes of both parents. Slightly more mithochondric female DNA, to be precise, if the science is correct.
If we aborted unborn monkey's, we would be nailed down by animal protection activists. And nobody sane is doing it. But when humans are in question, then we have "higher interests". And such interest is often money.
1) Money must not have a role in deciding who will live and who will not.
2) Father also suffers emotional damage from losing unborn baby
3) Life is precious. Nobody should have authority over deciding who will live and who will not.
The fact that it is troubling to have many children only increases need for restraint, not for abortion. I don't eat expecting that my eating habit will be corrected through surgery; I don't drive reckless because there are blood donators and surgeons who will patch me; I should also not have sex because there is a surgical or chemical "remedy" to uncontrolled sexual desire.
It is wrong. Self-control is what makes me human.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: benzene
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: mtodorov_69
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: lively56
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly and FUTHER MORE
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: When will men take more responsibility?
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Woman May Not have Monopoly Over Reproduction
Posted by: mtodorov_69
Comments are closed-
Posted by: writeval on Jul 3, 2006 7:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I love organized religion. It isn't about spirituality in the slightest (I so love the "Who would Jesus bomb?" bumper stickers -- right on); it's about instilling fear and prejudice to manipulate the masses who won't think for themselves, for the sole purpose of geopolitical gain for the handful of Old Guys at the top of the hierarchy.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» The Man Behind the Curtain
Posted by: mirimac
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Roverton on Jul 3, 2006 7:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A multi-generational Stockholm Syndrome.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on Jul 3, 2006 7:50 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Hogwash
Posted by: Joe Ox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: benzene on Jul 3, 2006 8:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How long before it comes to that?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE:YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: nickptar
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: benzene
» RE: YO-- .S.I.S! GIVE ME
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: YO--CELTICSWEETGRASS--WHO SAYS THE GOD OF ABRAHAM
Posted by: SamFox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: deha on Jul 3, 2006 8:52 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Human history has shown, time and again, that telling people not to have sex unless they are deliberately trying to reproduce DOES NOT WORK. It didn't work in the ancient world, in the Middle Ages, during the Industrial Revolution, or at any other time in history, and it doesn't work now.
I don't usually resort to ad hominem attacks, but anyone who attempts to reframe the debate about access to contraception into a debate about abortion is a fucking moron.
Anyone who is opposed to abortion and who doesn't work to assure that every woman has access to reproductive education and contraception so that abortion becomes rare is a hypocrite of the highest magnitude. Especially if you have EVER had sexual intercourse without the express intent of creating a child. Male or female, it doesn't matter - you are a hypocrite.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Hypocrites changing the subject
Posted by: BlueTigress
» "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: deha
» RE: "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: "...we don't all want to spend our lives putting the desires and wishes of men...
Posted by: deha
» Too Sensitive
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Too Sensitive
Posted by: LPB
» RE: Too Sensitive
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Too Sensitive
Posted by: LPB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LRayn on Jul 3, 2006 9:14 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"I should also not have sex because there is a surgical or chemical "remedy" to uncontrolled sexual desire."
Bullshit. Sex is a good thing. Using contraception to avoid pregnancy is a good thing. Making it easier for women to control our own destinies is a good thing.
The idea that sexual desire is bad and must be "controlled" is straight out of Medieval Christianity. Backward ideas about sexual "purity" are not progressive or democratic. They are old fashioned patriarchal religious beliefs. In America, we have no state religion. Fundamentalist Christians have no right to force their religious views on everyone else.
It is my right as an American citizen to have easy access to safe and effective birth control.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Sex is good. Don't listen to the religious right! WHO SHOULD WE
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Sex is good. Don't listen to the religious right! WHO SHOULD WE
Posted by: sallyjrw
» RE: Sex is good...GOD MADE IT!!!WHO SHOULD WE LISTEN TO???
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Sex is good...GOD MADE IT!!!WHO SHOULD WE LISTEN TO???
Posted by: sallyjrw
» RE: Sex is good...GOD MADE IT! HI sallyjrw...
Posted by: SamFox
» are you happy?
Posted by: Joachim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pixiequix on Jul 3, 2006 1:12 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Keep your dogma outta my uterus.
Posted by: mmeetoilenoir
» RE: Keep your dogma outta my uterus.
Posted by: pixiequix
» RE: WISH I KNEW ABOUT WILD CARROT SEED WAY BACK
Posted by: SamFox
» Wild Carrot
Posted by: Joe Ox
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pianojo on Jul 3, 2006 1:49 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am SICK TO DEATH of religious NUTS AND IDIOTS - be they men OR women - thinking they have the RIGHT to tell me what I may or may not do with MY OWN GOD-DAMNED BODY!!!!!!!!
If you don't want to avail yourself of birth control or abortion - fine. That is your right and that is your choice.
But kindly FUCK OFF and allow me the courtesy of the same right to choose whether or not I wish to to use birth control or abotion.
It's none of you GOD-DAMNED BUSINESS!!!!!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» please explain . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» Thank You....I've always said it!
Posted by: sirossisofliver
» I agree
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: I agree
Posted by: LPB
» Check Again
Posted by: Joe Ox
» RE: Check Again
Posted by: LPB
» RE: I agree
Posted by: babs
Comments are closed-
Posted by: fork on Jul 3, 2006 3:21 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You're always so quick off the mark in responding to any women's type issue and going off on this tangent. It's almost impossible to have any kind of progressive discussion that doesn't degenerate into this simplistic lowest-common-denominator drivel.
There are so many other sites (the vast majority of mainstream media sources) that would be more suitable to your ideology, and there are so few truly progressive sites. Is this really your objective, to rush in and stifle any non-conservative debate? If it's not, then you should try listening and practicing a bit of self-restraint.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: Ratskii
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE: Sensitive Ponytail Guy et al . . .
Posted by: Ratskii
Comments are closed-
Posted by: LPB on Jul 3, 2006 3:22 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now, who is MOSTLY in charge of religious instruction? Men. Who gives most of the sermons and writes most of the material which is taught in most churches? Men.
My conclusion is this: Yes, many women do oppose abortion, for different reasons. But many of those women oppose abortions because they were taught by their religious leaders, most of whom were men, to do so. The prevailing religion in America, Christianity, teaches that women should subordinate themselves to men, or at least many Christian churches teach this.
So using the fact that many women are also against abortion, and for the anti-birth-control policies, as proof that these policies don't hurt or penalize women is not entirely a valid point, because if they weren't taught by (mostly) men from the time that they were children to view abortion and sex for pleasure as sins for women, many of these women would feel differently about both issues.
So again, birth control, as well as abortion, is being restricted by mostly men!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: In response to comments about women who are against abortion
Posted by: FauxPorteno
» RE:
Posted by: CollD
» "Now, who is MOSTLY in charge of religious instruction? Men.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: In response to comments: NICE TRY BUT YOU GET NO
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: NICE TRY
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: NICE TRY:STILL NO CIGAR--YOU, LIKE MOST POSTERS
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: NICE TRY: STILL NO CIGAR
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: NICE TRY: STILL NO CIGAR
Posted by: sirossisofliver
» RE: HAHAHHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAH
Posted by: CollD
» So women are automons?
Posted by: Burton
» RE: So women are automons?
Posted by: LPB
» Answer: So women are automons?
Posted by: Burton
» Who is the brainwashee
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Steven Wanzell on Jul 3, 2006 3:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Having been born gay in a mostly gay-hating world was no blessing, but women have it much tougher, since they can be (and usually allow themselves to be) controlled by impregnation. However, they themselves must take control of their reproduction.
Having been so thoroughly conditioned to feel they NEED to be sexual objects, (traditional) "wives" (slaves!) and mothers in order to qualify as "real" women, makes it even tougher for them. They have to fight against their own internal tapes.
As a (predominantly) gay person, I had to switch off my own tapes about how I'm less than human, and deserve to be punished by society, and by the law. Women all over the world must do the same, if they really want to be free.
I was shocked and dismayed when American women failed to protect their own rights back in the 70s, when they rejected the Equal Rights Amendment, and since then "Feminism" in general. It reminds me of the pathetic US Gay Rights movement, which still seems more bent on its rights to drag parades and economic exploitation of the word "gay", than to its Equal Rights under the law (marriage, and its hundreds of automatic entitlements and family protections).
America is still ULTRA-conservative, sadly including those who suffer the most from it. Freedom (or lack of it) is, for most, a choice.
Steven Wanzell
artist/activist/ex-American
www.wanzellarts.com.ar
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It's Not About Babies
Posted by: LPB
» Women opposed ERA
Posted by: Burton
» What about other sexual minorities?
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: excaliburtb1982 on Jul 3, 2006 4:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One thing... this article failed to link its facts with its title accusation of the right..
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Welcome to the New American Taliban and American Theocracy
Posted by: Steven Wanzell
» Feminist Taliban
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: enzolima on Jul 3, 2006 7:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: benzene on Jul 3, 2006 10:10 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: enzolima on Jul 4, 2006 2:50 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The possibilities.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Brilliant!
Posted by: sirossisofliver
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pbr90 on Jul 5, 2006 5:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly out of wedlock babies has always been a prime concern for men and women since it produces unwanted children. The increasing impact of the hierarchy of deterrents: social and economic stigma, birth control, and finally abortion has worked to reduce the social menace of unwanted babies. Prohibitions on abortion is a drastic measure couched in an inconsistent morality that favors men's rights over women's rights, not equal rights and social obligations.
For moral consistency, the social menace of pedophiles and rapists must also be addressed, and although it is the flip side of the abortion issue, it relates to the equal rights and social obligation to prevent men from the unequal social preference that allows them unlicensed or illicit sex that harms and endangers women. It is the other half of the sexual and gender social control as yet unaddressed since unwanted babies come from engagement with men who also ignore equal rights and social obligations. As a social menace, it lies near the top of everyone's priority, and though the fear of castration for men typically outweighs their movtivation to use it as an alternative to unwanted harms, there is as yet no hierarchy of controls over male gender to prevent them.
What difference is there, actually, in using social castration of women by social stigma of sex out of wedlock while allowing it for men, and chemical castration of men to prevent their uncontrollable sexual/predatory drives that result in years of incarceration? The perception that male sexual privilege is a right, while that for women is immoral is the heart of a double standard that justifies female control but not male control.
In a land where the death penalty exists, chemical castration may be more compassionate and lesser expense than incarceration as the answer to this social menace. If the Catholic Church had mandated chemical castration of priests, there would have been few pedophilia problems and they would have achieved their goal of virtuous priests in the model of a celibate Jesus. The fact that they haven't mandated this option shows the hypocrisy by which the Church attempts to accomplish its unequal status power dominion, but only at the expense of women and children.
If priests make the commitment to be celibate, and women are expected to be celibate unless married - in the moral context of human lifestyles - then, equal rights would suggest that celibacy for men is equally an option, and that castration is not beyond the human rights boundary of acceptability. Both women and Priests have been forced into the rules of celibacy for hundreds of years. Life without sex is not perceived as a diminution of their lives or their importance as persons.
While surgical castration admittedly evokes the horrors associated with that procedure, chemical castratiion is conceivable as a kindness for a social menace that is needed to control the sexual and violence oriented sexual appetites of men unable to control themselves.
If society aims to claim a right to determine the reproductive outcomes of women - by granting or prohibiting abortion, certainly the policy is applicable to males - by offering, or mandating castration as the alternative to enduring the social menace of irresponsble men as also the application to determine the reproductive outcome of men.
Sex, used responsibly, causes no unwanted pregnancies or births, nor does it produce victims of pedophilia and rape.
For equal rights to be just, castration like abortion would become legitimate methods of social control to prohibit the social menace of sex to destroy lives.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Why limit castration to male sex offenders? Sexual equality would require castration also for women.
Posted by: Sojourner
» RE: Why limit castration to male sex offenders? Sexual equality would require castration also for wo
Posted by: LPB
» Now we know where the Nazis went
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: David M. Gindratt on Jul 5, 2006 7:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: the condom is better than abstinence
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WyrdSister on Jul 6, 2006 10:47 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to agree with this statement.
Just as alcohol prohabition did not work, just as the "war on drugs" prohibition is not working, so too sexual prohibition will not work.
The Morality Police can just sit down, take a breather. It does not matter one lick what you say or try to control, sex is going to happen.
Best everyone have ALL the information and protections so that informed choices can be made, anything else is just plain irresponsable.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Prohibition has never worked:THEN WHY NOT ABOLISH
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: Prohibition has never worked
Posted by: WyrdSister
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kellygorski on Jul 7, 2006 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I completely agree with your arguments. We will always find misogyny in American culture, but what I find morally repulsive is that said ideology is barreling its way into the educational system under the guise of abstinence-only education.
As an educator and options counselor, I found myself teaching Language Arts full-time in a high school only to see a high percentage of my students at the clinic on Saturdays. Most of my students didn’t even know Planned Parenthood offered free contraceptives to them, but even though I referred to PP often, sometimes I saw the same faces again months later. They knew little about their bodies aside from what they learned in their seventh grade “family planning” class—and at 16, very few remember what little they learned.
The sexism we see in modern society is symbolized through the contraception war. Anti-choicers claim—rather adamantly—that the synthetic birth control utilized by women (no pill for men?) causes “microabortions” and that an early-trimester abortion is a catalyst for breast cancer. All this (what I call) disinformation is blatantly keeping all women, but especially the younger ones, from being successful, autonomous individuals who maintain sovereignty over their bodies. Women should never be slaves to their own sexuality (let alone another’s).
You stated, “A woman's bodily integrity, her moral autonomy, her health, her very life depend on whether she has access not just to the right to reproductive freedom but also to the health care and education services that make rights meaningful.” I think this is where we lose so many bright men and women in the feminist movement because very few see the link between reproductive choice and equality of the sexes. What is inherent in reproductive choice is education, information, and above all: the ability to achieve success and plan one’s life accordingly. There is no greater freedom than education and the ability to use it.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» It's misandry!
Posted by: Burton
» RE: ducation & Equality: YOU WANT SOME EDUCATION??? GO ON DOWN
Posted by: SamFox
» RE: education
Posted by: WyrdSister
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 7, 2006 7:53 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So why then is there a problem at all? Maybe it is because increasing nunmbers of women buy into the anti-birth control movement? Or simply want to have children?
I know too many women who, even with access to birth control/abortion, decide they want to have a child (usually out of wedlock) for any of the following reasons:
"I want somebody to love."
"It will make my boyfriend love me."
"It will change my boyfriend."
"I want to be a mommy."
"Everyone else at work is getting pregnant."
"I want to change diapers" (seriously, I have heard this from women who were high-powered executives)
"I had nothing better to do."
There's a deeper problem here, and that is all the borth control in the world will not change primal human behavior.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Women are 51%
Posted by: mazel
» RE: Women are 51%
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 7, 2006 7:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, "The Da Cinci Code" is fiction. This makes as much sense as saying that the "X-Files" mesmerizes viewers by spinning the tale of aliens who want to impregnate Earth women.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» And of course...
Posted by: Burton
» RE: Dan Brown is a big fat liar
Posted by: CollD
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jul 8, 2006 4:13 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: thanks
Posted by: Burton
» RE: thanks
Posted by: morticia
» RE: thanks
Posted by: Burton
» RE: thanks
Posted by: morticia
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joe Ox on Jul 8, 2006 10:58 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wonder if the same kind of vitriol would show up about race if the issue presented itself. I doubt it.
What it tells me is buried not so deeply inside is a massive amount of resentment between men and women. Women because of past oppression and men because they feel even if they are innocent that they must walk on eggshells all the time for fear of inciting.
It really is a topic that could use a good study. In surveys and quiet data gathering this angst doesnt show up, but every single time the topic is remotely touched here the screaming begins, balming everyone, men blaming women, women blaming men, everyone blaming Christians, blaming Gearge Bush, whatever, but, men and women are still having a hard time getting along when discussing this.
Agreed?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Women are not oppressed
Posted by: Burton
» RE: Dang It He's Right
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 8, 2006 3:47 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, the human race is not being "killed". There are more people on this planet than ever.
Most of the hope for this planet comes from male inventions: science, technology, medicine, space travel.
Why don't you tell me what women have invented that has advanced the human race?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: celticsweetgrass
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: morticia
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: Burton
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: morticia
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: mazel
» RE: It's all women's fault
Posted by: LPB
» The truth comes out!
Posted by: Burton
» RE: The truth comes out!
Posted by: WyrdSister
» More truth
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on Jul 8, 2006 4:14 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I've read both the book and seen the movie. Both are pretty good sci-fi and I recommend them. But that is all they are, science fiction, i.e., not real.
Some points:
First, "religion" does not run America. We are being run by (take thy pick) a one-party system masquerading with two faces; the corporations; a technocratic bureacracy; the Federal Reserve; the military-industrial-infotainment complex.
Insofar as rights are being taken away from us, this has happened under both liberals and conservatives: look at how the war on drugs, the war on terror, the war on Iraq, have been supported by all sides of the political spectrum. Indeed, it has been the religious conservative Congressman, Ron Paul, who has steadfastly opposed these attacks on the Bill of Rights.
Feminists did not get overly concerned about the destruction of the Bill of Rights owing to the war on drugs. No-knock raids, asset forfeiture, drug testing, profile searches, attacks on medical marijuana patients, etc., all have been supported by women. Female hysteria over so-called "date raype drugs" has led to the outlawing of legitimate pharmaceuticals.
The current head of the DEA, America's premier secret police agency, is a female. Just as Janet Reno was the attorney general who ordered the massacre at Waco.
And let us not forget that feminists have attacked fundamental rights of the accused, such as the right to confront one's accuser in court, via "raype shield" laws. As for "presumption of innocence", shall we bring up the feminist mantra "No woman lies about raype"?
So there's plenty of blame to go around on all sides for the destructions of our liberties.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Handmaid's Tale
Posted by: LPB
» So LPB surrenders
Posted by: Burton
» LPB lies about rape
Posted by: Burton
Comments are closed-
Posted by: christii on Jul 8, 2006 8:37 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are also the target audience of the advertisement campaigns ran by the pharmaceutical industry. When the Ortho Evra users are not told about blood clots or Wyeth hides/misrepresents data about its birth control and hormone replacement drugs -- do you think the "higher-income women" are anything but used? You think birth control pills, as they exist, are the best birth control option? Charting a menstrual cycle can be done using a tiny little magnifying glass and a lighted glass slide microscope. A nicely made one costs $30. For a reproductive lifetime of a poor or a rich woman. But of course, when millions of women are sufferring from a PMS -- "a debilitating condition" and when periods are a disruptive force in the economy birth control pills become indispensable.
To make taking birth control a sign of a modern, "feminist" attitude was a genius marketing idea.
If this simple pill once a day could really make me free, responsible and in control i would take it. As it is however, all i can expect is a bit of a weight gain and a hefty monthly bill.
P.S. i do know that birth control pills are sometimes used to treat serious medical conditions.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: birth control pills are overrated
Posted by: LPB
» RE: birth control pills are overrated
Posted by: christii
» RE: birth control pills are overrated
Posted by: LPB
Comments are closed-
Posted by: WyrdSister on Jul 10, 2006 9:03 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
if you dont get it, you dont win. no one does. it just perpetuates the same ol' misogynistic attitudes.
thanks, man...your a peach.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SamFox on Jul 10, 2006 10:43 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Christians would be just as upset as any one. We practice birth control using condoms and the pill.
If you are worried go on down to whatever store Circle-K, WalMart, the drug store...any shortage??? NNOOO!!
Somebody is erecting a straw condom, I mean horse...OOOHHH, straw would ssoooo hurt!
SamFox
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: WHAT WAR ON CONTRICEPTION AND
Posted by: Aim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: eastcoker on Jul 14, 2006 12:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Joachim on Jan 24, 2007 8:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
an object to be used then discarded, much like a Dixie Cup.
Sexual intercourse, the most intimate relationship, that speaks of genuine love becomes an arrid wasteland when birth control is used. It becomes a horrid thirst that is never quenched. It becomes a glutton which eats and eats and can never be satisfied yet tries to digest everything in sight while demanding to be fed with more and more vileness.
This relationship, has a spiritual dimension
and a psychological effect on persons. The beautiful' "I accept you because you are you and every part of you" is now turned into a lie. Personhood is destroyed rather than cherished. Empty dreams and broken promises are left in it's wake.
We began with birthcontrol -got more and more selfish -and ended with abortion and euthanasia. That is the logical conclusion.
Are we a better nation for it?
Are you cherished?
Are you happy?
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Starbucks' Cop-Out to Gun Nuts: Customers Served Coffee While Strapped
ACORN Smear Collaborator Claims Persecution to Raise Money for Her Legal Troubles
Bad Policies Are Really What's Driving California's Huge Prison Costs




