COMMENTS: 140
RFK Jr: Taking the Stolen Election Seriously
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Schoolchildren read (in the few remaining civics classes in America) about the multiple pollings and tense standoff that led to Thomas Jefferson's election as president in "the Revolution of 1800," because newspapers of the day looked into and reported on such things. But -- unless we speak out -- odds are that few will read about what happened in Ohio in 2004 in future history books, because modern newspaper editors are increasingly corporate appendages, and many of today's "reporters" worry more about currying favor with institutional power than investigating stories that may inconvenience or upset their "sources."
Kennedy's story -- "Was The 2004 Election Stolen?" -- broke on Thursday, June 1, 2006, when Rolling Stone magazine put it on their website and it was reprinted on other websites. It hit the newsstands soon thereafter. In the article, Kennedy lays out the details of exactly how the Republican Party, in several states but particularly in Ohio, engaged in a criminal conspiracy to both steal the 2004 election and to cover up the evidence of that theft.
The subtitle of the article lays out Kennedy's foundational premise: "Republicans prevented more than 350,000 voters in Ohio from casting ballots or having their votes counted -- enough to have put John Kerry in the White House." And that's just the beginning of the story, which includes ballot-box stuffing, electronic voting machine manipulation, "caging" in defiance of a court order banning Republicans from the notorious practice, threats and intimidation of Democratic voters by imported Republican goon squads, and multiple illegal uses of the office of the Secretary of State to disenfranchise Democratic voters.
The Republican rebuttals/attacks have already begun, starting with a particularly tragic hit-piece in one of the higher-profile "online magazines" that claims to authoritatively quote so-called but unnamed "experts" who doubt Kennedy's sources, and takes a clip of Ohio law so out of context as to essentially reverse its meaning in support of the Republican talking points.
The day Kennedy's article came out, Republican callers began dialing into talk radio shows complaining about "massive Democrat (sic) voter fraud by registering illegal immigrants" (to quote a caller to my Air America Radio program on 6/2/06). Clearly the meme Republicans will put out if Kennedy's story gets traction in the mainstream media is that "election fraud is something both parties do," and they'll use that meme to push even harder for more Republican-helpful restrictions on voters who are old, urban, or poor enough not to have or easily acquire two forms of government-issued ID. We can't let them -- this is about real crimes, and the destruction of democracy in our republic.
Kennedy's article is an in-depth, on-the-ground report from Ohio about the 2004 election. In it, he acknowledges that he is building on the work of many who preceded him - this was a story not particularly difficult to uncover, even though the mainstream media has chosen to ignore it. Seminal investigations were done by Bob Fitrakis and Harvey Wasserman of the Columbus, Ohio Free Press, and by Michigan Congressman John Conyers, who held hearings in Ohio that resulted in a summary report now available in book form titled What Went Wrong In Ohio (all referenced by Kennedy).
Just after the 2002 elections, I wrote an article for Common Dreams outing Senator Chuck Hagel's odd journey from voting machine peddler to the US Senate (being elected on his own machines). Six months later, in the summer of 2003, MoveOn.org commissioned me to write a round-up article about voting machine problems which they emailed to over 2 million members, and was published on AlterNet. In both articles (and others since), I was building on the work of Bev Harris of blackboxvoting.org, Lynn Landes, and many others, just as Kennedy has done.
It's not like the theft of the 2004 election is a secret to anybody who is looking. Mark Crispin Miller devoted an entire (brilliant) book to the topic, "Fooled Again: How the Right Stole the 2004 Election & Why They'll Steal the Next One Too (Unless We Stop Them)", and BBC investigative reporter Greg Palast lays it out in a chapter of his new book "Armed Madhouse" and articles at gregpalast.com.
Kennedy, however, has a name and reputation that demands instant recognition in the mainstream American media. And he didn't just recycle the work of those who preceded him - he went to Ohio, talked with elections officials, looked over records, investigated the investigators, and only included in his story those facts he felt were sufficiently solid that they could, as he told me, "convince a jury." In fact, he is calling for criminal investigations into his evidence, for indictments of culpable Republican officials, and jury trials.
Even with such a credible and high-profile figure involved, however, the response so far of America's corporate-owned mainstream media to Kennedy's article evokes echoes of the media's handling of similar Republican Party crimes in Florida in the 2000 election.
Although it was reported -- in The New York Times, no less -- that Al Gore got more votes than George W. Bush in a statewide recount of Florida "no matter what standard was chosen to judge voter intent," most Americans don't know to this day that Gore actually won the 2000 election. The reason is a small percentage of Republican spin and a large percentage of journalistic cowardice in the mainstream media following 9/11. (This cowardice is limited to the USA, by the way -- the story was extensively covered in most of the rest of the world.)
In the 2000 case, The New York Times, on November 12, 2001, published a story summarizing the work of the newspaper consortium that spent nearly a year counting all the ballots in the 2000 Florida election. They found that a statewide recount -- the process the Florida Supreme Court had mandated and which had begun when George W. Bush sued before the US Supreme Court to stop the recount -- "could have produced enough votes to tilt the election his [Gore's] way, no matter what standard was chosen to judge voter intent."
The Times analysis further showed that had "spoiled" ballots -- ballots normally punched but "spoiled" because the voter also wrote onto the ballot the name of the candidate -- been counted, the results were even more spectacular. While 35,176 voters wrote in Bush's name after punching the hole for him, 80,775 wrote in Gore's name while punching the hole for Gore. Katherine Harris decided that these were "spoiled" ballots, and ordered that none of them should be counted. Many were from African American districts, where older and often broken machines were distributed, causing voters to write onto their ballots so their intent would be unambiguous. As the Times added in a sidebar article with a self-explanatory title by Ford Fessenden, in the 2000 election in Florida: "Ballots Cast by Blacks and Older Voters Were Tossed in Far Greater Numbers."
The November, 2001, New York Times article went on to document how, in a statewide recount, there was no possible doubt that Al Gore won Florida in 2000:
If all the ballots had been reviewed under any of seven single standards [all the ones that were used by either party], and combined with the results of an examination of overvotes, Mr. Gore would have won, by a very narrow margin. For example, using the most permissive ''dimpled chad'' standard, nearly 25,000 additional votes would have been reaped, yielding 644 net new votes for Mr. Gore and giving him a 107-vote victory margin. ...
Using the most restrictive standard -- the fully punched ballot card -- 5,252 new votes would have been added to the Florida total, producing a net gain of 652 votes for Mr. Gore, and a 115-vote victory margin.
All the other combinations likewise produced additional votes for Mr. Gore, giving him a slight margin over Mr. Bush, when at least two of the three coders agreed.And yet all of this information was buried well after the 17th paragraph of the story, which carried the baffling headline "Study of Disputed Florida Ballots Finds Justices Did Not Cast the Deciding Vote."
As Robert F. Kennedy Jr. pointed out to me in an interview on my radio program on June 2, the reason the Times chose to bury the lede of their story and instead imply in the headline and first few paragraphs that Bush had legitimately won the 2000 election was because just a month earlier the US had been struck on 9/11 and the Times' publisher didn't want to undermine the president's legitimacy in a time of national crisis.
In a case eerily prescient of the Times' 2004 decision to delay reporting on Bush's illegal wiretapping of Americans until after the election, the Times' publisher and editors decided in November of 2001 that that wasn't a good time to reveal that Bush was an illegitimate president and that Al Gore actually had won the election, both by the majority vote and the electoral vote. (Although, to their credit, at least they reported that Gore got the most votes in Florida, as did The Washington Post, which also ran the story but buried it deep within an article that similarly seemed to imply Bush won legitimately. USA Today passed over it altogether, simply saying that Bush won.)
The big question for today is whether media history will repeat itself. Will the mainstream media do any first-source on-the-ground investigative reporting into the theft of the 2004 election, or simply treat it as a political "difference of opinion"? And if they do engage in the hard work of first-source reporting as the Times and their consortium did in 2001, and the results again come back that Bush is an illegitimate president, will they again bury that fact seventeen paragraphs into a story with a misleading headline and opening as they did when, in 2001, they counted the ballots and found that Al Gore got more votes than George W. Bush did in Florida?
So far, it seems that the mainstream media is going to pass on doing any of their own first-source reporting, while Kenneth Blackwell begins the process of destroying evidence, which he'll be legally authorized to do in the next few months.
For example, on Friday, June 3, 2006, CNN briefly interviewed Kennedy, but treated the story as a political one rather than an example of investigative reporting. Instead of interviewing Kennedy about the details and substance of the story, Wolf Blitzer had on with Kennedy the infamous Terry Holt, spokesman for the Bush/Cheney campaign and a likely co-conspirator in the crime, instead of an investigative reporter who had examined Kennedy's evidence. Just as when Holt was confronted by Anderson Cooper in August of 2004 about the administration's manipulation of terror alerts during the campaign, Holt similarly ridiculed the idea of Republican election crimes, and Blitzer didn't challenge him -- or let Kennedy finish most of his sentences.
Three days after Kennedy's story broke in Rolling Stone, a Google news search shows no national "mainstream" media having picked up the story as a serious news report, or having done any follow-up reporting into the issues he raises whatsoever. An email reply from an editor at The Seattle Times, asking why they're not covering the story, is characteristic of the response from many other national newspapers: "We subscribe to many news services for our national and foreign coverage. However, Rolling Stone is not one of them."
The question should not be, "Is this a story we can quote or should investigate because it was first reported in a major newspaper?" Instead, it should be, "Is there credible evidence that the election of 2004 was stolen by Republicans engaged in openly criminal activity?" And, of course, "Are they preparing to do the same in 2006 and 2008?"
Our national mega-corporate-owned media -- now so driven by ad dollars that sensationalized "missing white girls" trump real news -- will only respond if enough of us raise enough questions with their editors and writers. Or if more of our members of congress (you can call your congressperson or senator at 202 225-3121) -- particularly the "media darlings" like Joe Biden and (gulp) Chuck Hagel, who are ubiquitous on the Sunday talking-head shows -- begin to speak out with the rare courage Congressman John Conyers showed when he pursued his investigation despite a virtual news blackout from the mainstream media.
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Posted by: feller on Jun 7, 2006 2:43 AM
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The Kennedys were more interesting and powerful when they stole elections "fair and square", like in Illinois in 1960 with the help of Tony Accardo, Sam Giancana and other colorful political 'consultants' .
JFK had a wry sense of humor. He would find this article to be very amusing, along with what has become of the "liberal" movement. He would not be surprised; he had little use for idealists like Stevenson, Eleanor Roosevelt and the "let the UN do it" crowd of the '50's. He and his brother flattened the libs at the 60 convention, giving them but a glancing nod in his march to power. Jack Kennedy was a pragmatist, a ruthless one with as much fire in his belly for doing what had to be done as his allegedly more ruthless brother, RFK Jr.'s dad.
With JFK's passing and the subequent death of Bob Kennedy Sr., the Kennedys descended into media shadowdom and shallowness. They remain good copy for People and New York magazines. But, in fact, they have been irrelevant since 1968 in terms of real impact on who holds power in this country.
RFK Jr. is is truly pathetic. Kennedys were not whiners. Joe Kennedy embodied the American political system, warts and all. However now, the watered down his progeny whine. . Somewhere, down in Hell, Jimmy Hoffa has the last laugh, Jack is shaking his head in knowing cynicism, and Joe Kennedy is sneering.
As for Richard Nixon, he loves it, every minute of it.
Shakespearian tragedy evolved into farce.
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» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» When will conservatives become concerned about the integrity of their primary and other elections?
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» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
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» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
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» Republicans are Corporate Socialists
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» RE: epublicans are Corporate Socialists
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» RE: epublicans are Corporate Socialists
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» From a Wobbly.
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» The Enemy among us
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» Come on feller - tell us more about Diebold
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» Fact-free fandango.
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» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
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» RE: Spitting In the Image
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» Feller is using quality propaganda methods
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» RE: Feller is using quality propaganda methods
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» RE: Spitting In the Image
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» RE: Spitting In the Image
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» RE: Spitting In the Image
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» Thanks!
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Posted by: wli on Jun 7, 2006 3:56 AM
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This will never be officially investigated, much less prosecuted. It's far, far too late. The courts are packed. The FBI is chock full of right-wing ideologues of the sort that went about COINTELPRO schemes (and still do, c.f. Bari/Cherney, THERMCON, et al, not to mention more recent usage of agents provocateurs against street demonstrators). Guess who's already got a majority in both Houses of Congress, a President, and several Supreme Court Justices in place to block any and all investigations?
I'll concede that it might wake some people up to what's going on, but how many weren't already convinced who will be? The statistics are grim. There's no converting right-wingers. They live in their own version of reality, speak a different language, and so on. There will be no Rosetta stone; they will remain brick walls. Perhaps it's appealing to the majority, since, after all, their majority of votes was thwarted? Not so hopeful; a large proportion of them noticed immediately, and if they're so readily thwarted, what are they expected to do now?
A large aspect of the "dilemma" we face is the criminalization of the state, where the criminals occupy the positions of power wherefrom they can exonerate themselves. This is not so readily resolved by mere impeachment or by publishing articles about how those now in power overthrew the government or by street demonstrations. The ejection of a single figurehead from office as a conciliatory gesture (as in the case of Nixon) has little bearing on the overall control of the government by the criminal organization, regardless of how high the office the figurehead holds. Furthermore, as the number of officials needing to be dealt with increases and their public visibility decreases, the stamina of reform efforts very quickly fizzles out. Hence the FBI was never seriously prosecuted for COINTELPRO (of which most Americans remain ignorant, similar efforts persist to this day, more violent and on grander scales), Congress wasn't examined at all for its role in such affairs (or Vietnam, or the various coups d'etat, or covert actions), etc.
It's wishful thinking at best to continue toeing the line that some sort of mere aberration happened that will later be corrected. In fact, the characterization of the electoral fraud belies the true nature of the events. The fraud was no mere "illegal partisan ploy." It was a coup d'etat in 2000. The fraud in 2004 was little more than maintaining the grip on power. Consider this very carefully. When a country and its government are overthrown, you don't get it back after waiting a few years, particularly not by default and especially not by means of elections. You also are guaranteed of no limits whatsoever on the agendas of the putschists.
A historical example is enlightening: the Corrupt Bargain of 1877, for the rigged election of 1876. It was not until 88 years later that the vote of African-Americans was "formally" restored, and even that rings hollow given the Jim Crow tactics of the 2000 and 2004 elections. The country is not lost for just Bush's term or a mere generation; it's lost for the foreseeable future.
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» Worst Supreme Court decision in US history?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» florida supreme court, not elected representatives
Posted by: gerdhansel
» PAPER BALLOTS TO RESTORE DEMOCRACY
Posted by: Christie
» RE: PAPER BALLOTS TO RESTORE DEMOCRACY
Posted by: Christie
» So???
Posted by: alternetty
» RE: I hate to break the news to you....
Posted by: Hopeful
» RE: I hate to break the news to you....
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
» Supreme Court Should Be Elected
Posted by: Hopeful
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Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 7, 2006 4:11 AM
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» RE: it is true
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» RE: it is true
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» RE: it is true
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» RE: it is true
Posted by: jearls
» Gore and Kerry beat the Democrats
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» RE: Feller is right about Gore and Kerry, guys.
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» RE: it is true
Posted by: LieMeNot
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Posted by: Urstrly on Jun 7, 2006 4:50 AM
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» RE: Then we'd have to DO SOMETHING sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Then we'd have to DO SOMETHING
Posted by: mcginn
» RE: Then we'd have to DO SOMETHING
Posted by: kryptx
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Posted by: Citizendeane on Jun 7, 2006 5:02 AM
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"The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
We need a second American Revolution. That is what American patriots do.
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» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism
Posted by: wli
» Re the Weather Underground...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: e the Weather Underground...
Posted by: feller
» RE: e the Weather Underground...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: e the Weather Underground...
Posted by: feller
» Yes a revolution
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» RE: Yes a revolution
Posted by: feller
» What 's the matter with this country is...
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» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism
Posted by: feller
» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism from a far righty
Posted by: robmikejas
» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism from a far righty
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Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 7, 2006 5:36 AM
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» RE: sickofsleaze
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» RE: sickofsleaze
Posted by: COC
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 7, 2006 5:39 AM
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A very important and overlooked issue in the case of stolen elections is the absence of exit polls - for years, elections were accurately predicted on the basis of exit polls conducted by various media outlets - and yet now the media has absolutely abandoned this practice. There's only one logical explanation - exit polls that disagree with Diebold voting machines serve as powerful evidence of electoral fraud, and the media owners don't want this exposed.
Some citizen groups have decided to run local exit polls on their own dime, but it's a bit of an expensive proposition and again, these efforts are unlikely to get much media coverage. I'd suggest calling up every media outlet in your area, from the editors at the NYT to the cable news networks to your local area paper, and ask for a written, signed statement explaining why they've abandoned the practice of exit polling.
Consider another important media story - the Haditha massacres (and all the other ones). Would this even have broken the surface of the media pool without the courageous help of John Murtha? We need to support Democrats who have guts, and RFK Jr. is definetely in that category.
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» Come again: who's on crack?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: Sment on Jun 7, 2006 6:31 AM
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Unless we have a candidate who will fight for the seat, what can we do but blog?
Hey Dems, How's about a little ambition!? I'll go to the matresses for a fair election, but only if the guy wants it.
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» RE: Let's Nominate Someone who Will Fight for It.
Posted by: patsy6
» Did Gore throw it?RE: Let's Nominate Someone who Will Fight for It.
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Let's Nominate Someone who Will Fight for It.
Posted by: Sment
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Posted by: BPCBob on Jun 7, 2006 6:32 AM
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On the talking points (Democrat's need some help in this area), Don’t say “Republicans stole the election”. Stop being self referential, and say something like, “Republican’s committed massive election fraud”, “Republican’s stole the legitimate votes of 100’s of thousands of honest, hard working, American’s”, “Republican’s don’t just steal tax payer money and give it to their rich friends, they have the nerve to steal the votes of honest American’s”. Say the same thing over and over whenever you have the chance.
Don’t use underclass, wimpy, language (like disenfranchised voters) in your talking points, most voters don’t want to self identify with being helpless and abused.
The honesty of voting, along with the right of free speech and assembly, and the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure, is the root of all our freedoms.
Republican's have eroded all of these rights and Democrat's have not been effective in protecting them. Draw a line in the sand on vote stealing. Do it now.
In addition to encouraging the Democratic party to get on the waiting list for a spine transplant we need to face another issue. The media may just stop paying for exit polling. What kind of pressure can be applied to the media to ensure that they keep funding and reporting exit polling?
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» RE: Great points. We need more!
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Democratic Party, Stand Up and Market This
Posted by: para-dice
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Posted by: concerned Canadian on Jun 7, 2006 6:45 AM
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» Go save an Eskimo
Posted by: feller
» Golly, Feller...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Go save an Eskimo
Posted by: concerned Canadian
» You may want to take another look at Estonia
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: nickprogresss on Jun 7, 2006 7:19 AM
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But I'm afraid it might not last!
Check out this short video explaining how the Internet may soon be much more like the medium of TV - highly structured and controlled by financial interests!!
Spread the word - use the Internet to save the Internet.
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» RE: We could lose this outlet
Posted by: BPCBob
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Posted by: Marjorie G on Jun 7, 2006 8:07 AM
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He personally tried to find a whistleblower, supported lawsuits, but could not prove the pattern we needed to find to support overturning an election. We like a hero falling on a sword, no matter what. This was done by a million cuts, many votes lost because people left the polls or registrations shredded. Other than Triad avoiding a recount, there wasn't a way to prove anything about computer theft.
Still no discovery on those machines. It took years for Palm Beach to get a look at an internal audit log that showed 100,000 errors. In Alaska, 100,000 more votes than people, and many more cities, and in red states, that were suspiciously part of the popular vote total.
Still, if not for the south, Kerry won the popular and electoral vote, despite the fear and vote manipulation.
The smoking gun of electronic disenfranchisement of hispanics and native americans in New Mexico was months after, and Bill Richardson said no to Kerry's offer to pay for his recount. The DNC shut it down. They also did not help as much as they could have with the entire campaign, preferring to wait for 08, their own candidacies, etc., but the pattern too large to begin reclaiming the election.
Thirty lawyers said unprovable, and we'd have the same media who didn't want him to begin with, hounding daily for what we'd find. Remember Gore didn't make it past the Supreme Court. Media participated in Swftie attacks long after refuted, and as was mentioned about the NSA intelligence story withheld, clearly would not have been helpful. How about Viacom's Redstone substituting the National Guard story for the bigger Niger forgeries. Correct on the facts, but made to appear a hoax because of the photocopied set-up.
More importantly, the fear in this country made the idea of a recount more skiddish than now, more than 50% liking Bush and the war. Just think of what the Osama Bin Laden tape did that lest weekend, and we know, as Kerry said often, that we let him go in Tora Bora, as more helpful to their cause alive.
I've been working on election reform for years, and the public only now starting to realize the problem. It's an uphill fight.
How about not repeating the GOP talking points about our own candidates, criticizing them for what the media says about them, which is deliberately propagandist. We could have had the first extreme sport president, very alpha male, with six plus times sailing risky open ocean for hours, yet all we could do is parrot the elite windsurfing meme as a negative.
Let's fix our election system, and convince more officials of the need for honest elections, a bi-partisan need. We need more political will to get rid of these video game machines that are totally useless except for theft. Billions of taxpayer dollars for their own disenfranchisement. The paper trail is a placebo. The computer can print one thing and record another.
Say no to electronic voting. It can never be secure.
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» RE: Kerry did try
Posted by: 50566
» Amen?
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: Arvy on Jun 7, 2006 8:10 AM
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The choice we face in the UK and USA is one of different managers of the same policy. That's why your last election was fought on their personalities and not the policies.
The real power lies with us the consumer. Imagine if everyone stopped buying all but the essentials for a year. We'd have the corporations by the b*lls. OK that last bit is a bit simplistic but…
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» RE: Conservatives & Liberals
Posted by: Jaekos
» time to leave this pathetic country
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
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Posted by: ScottP on Jun 7, 2006 8:40 AM
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That's not a question, that's just plain obvious. Let's try some real questions like:
Why did Kerry and Edwards concede before the recount?
Why was the process that followed the election in Ohio called a recount, when in fact only a small number of specially selected ballots were run, and the computers were fixed to duplicate previous results?
Why did Dean withdraw when he was leading?
Why did the voters stop voting for Dean when he still appeared on the ballot? (the obvious "he withdrew" doesn't count, his withdrawal was non-binding and he could have been forced back in by the voters)
Why did the public vote for Kerry, an obvious robber baron, in the primary?
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» RE: real questions
Posted by: Marjorie G
» thank you
Posted by: 50566
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Posted by: veronis on Jun 7, 2006 9:25 AM
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jun 7, 2006 10:54 AM
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Last link (maybe he can write an article on censorship):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/
book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
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Posted by: SufiLizard on Jun 7, 2006 11:27 AM
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But what can we do to minimize the damage of Republican election fraud in future elections?
Something almost anyone can do is volunteer to be a poll worker. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but here they have trouble finding people to do it.
You can also try to get involved with your local election board. You may have to get involved with a political party at the local level, but then you can also work to steer the party in the right direction while you're at it.
One of the earlier posts suggested a second American Revolution, which would be doomed to failure if we tried resorting to armed revolt, but if people would channel that anger, outrage and energy into something that's actually productive we might have a chance to change things.
Unfortunately its so much easier to spend one Saturday at a massive, but completely ineffectual demonstration than to commit the time needed for effective, grass-roots reform. Whether it's as a poll worker, elections board or just getting out there and talking to people who don't already agree with you, it's going to take a lot of time and effort to even have an outside chance to change things.
Without the committment of time and effort there really is no hope.
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» RE: What can we do in '06 and '08?
Posted by: feller
» How very helpful, Feller
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Marjorie G on Jun 7, 2006 1:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Salon critique was determined to stick to its own initial dismissal of stolen, as did others, because the fraud has not been proven. As if to say that all the disenfranchisement that was shown is somehow okay because we haven't proven the bottom line.
Everyone concentrated wrongly on seeking the invalidation, the title, not the questions of what we do now, and how do we prevent from happening again. Maybe a Rolling Stone move to sell magazines.
Computer fraud is very difficult to prove. With a 3 million popular vote difference, regardless of how we got there. Also a difficult investigation to wage at that point without proof.
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Posted by: babs on Jun 7, 2006 1:14 PM
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Many outlets reported the removing of thousands of eligible voters (Blacks and Hipanics) from the rolls, because they had the same names as felons - gee, Martinez, Jackson, Johnson, etc. pretty common names I see. Whatever happened to that story and its outcome - oh yeah, Britney Spears dropped her kid again - real important news.
And it is testimony to the hard core corruption and dishonesty that the 2000 election came down to Florida, which is owned by the Bush family - as is the supreme court - the highest court in the land isn't blind - it sees all in Republican red.
It is sickening. This administration has damaged the world, not just America. Count the freaking votes will ya? Or at least find a system that can accurately tally them.
Or are are you too busy watching Survivor and chowing down on those healthy Big Macs. David Letterman famously said that Americans don't care whether Donald Duck is in the White House. Donald Duck has more integrity and he's a cartoon character -albeit from the Mouse house.
Are you going to sit there again this time America, and do absolutely nothing?
The world is challenging the largest former democracy (now a bankrupt, rogue torture state) to get it right this time. Count with me... one, two, three, four... see, it isn't that hard.
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» RE: Will Florida do it again in 08?
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cityofangelslady on Jun 7, 2006 3:58 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can local grassroots americans stoop so low as they did in the ohio and florida elections and who knows where else? What is it going to take to turn this thing around?
Leadership. The same team that put together the Rolling Stone article under Robert Kennedy Jr. Start a new party with Robert Kennedy the candidate in time to be elected 30 years after his father was gunned down for being a...
Prosecutor
hope he can pick up where his father and uncle left off.
We need Justice.
Kay in L.A.
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» Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: feller
» RE: Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: 50566
» RE: Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: feller
» RE: Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: robmikejas
» I wouldn't leave someone to drown in Cold Blood
Posted by: feller
» RE: Oh yea! Just like good ol' Rush, eh?
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Oh yea! Just like good ol' Rush, eh?
Posted by: feller
» But Can He Duck In Time?
Posted by: feller
» RE:What's that? Some kind of threat?
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: What's that? Some kind of threat?
Posted by: feller
» Re we need leadership
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: truthteller on Jun 7, 2006 7:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Tom Brokaw was so quick to disavow the '04 exit polls that were right, then how quickly will a state gubanatorial race be forgotten?
I've read just about all of the articles and books cited in Thom's piece. I fully believe what they say about the massive fraud and theft by the GOP, but nothing is going to change - short of insurrection. It has to do with who wants it more, who feels with a deep reglious conviction that they are right. That group is obviously the fundy, theocratic Republicans, led in Ohio by Sec. Blackwell. They KNOW they are right, that God is on their side, and all else is justified by that belief. They will not quit, they will not be shamed until they succeed in taking over the government from the real majority for the forseeable future.
Earlier this evening I heard Lou Dobbs on CNN taking up the GOP talking point about Hugo Chavez being a strong-man dictator and the rigging of voting machines in Venezuela by a company that has bought the corrupt U. S. voting machine company Sequoia. They accused Chavez of having stolen the '02 recall vote electronically and used pre-election polling showing him losing that vote as proof that he stole it. This has to be the epitome of irony. The GOP is using polling results in another country, that by all independent accounts had a clean election to caste doubt on a voting machine company in that country running elections in the U. S.!
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» RE: There is no way Blackwell can lose and we can win
Posted by: 50566
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Posted by: Pissed Off Cabbie on Jun 7, 2006 8:34 PM
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Once upon a time, Nelson Rockefeller had designs on the presidency. He and his brothers knew that Nelson was unelectable, so they had the current president thrown out, and Nelson appointed Vice-President. Then, there were three assassination attempts on his boss, Gerald Ford. Fate sided with us, though, and Nelson was, as his brother Laurance put it, a failure.
http://pissedoffcabbie.blogspot.com/
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 7, 2006 10:27 PM
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COUNTER COULTER WITH YOUR WALLET
TPTB will get the msg very quickly if...
people just start a boycott of advertisers/manufacturers who pay these schills/talking heads their salaries, ...dump their stock, refuse to buy their books & newspapers, cancell your cable TV obligations getting ony the programming you want even if u have to pay more for less, and most importantly...
TALK THE TALK THAT THE CORPORATE CHIEFS MUST LISTEN TOO...TALK WITH YOUR WALLET... YOU MUST IGNORE THE IGNORANT... REFUSE TO BE SUCKED INTO THEIR ORBIT... BOYCOTT THE PRODUCT SUPPORTERS, DUMP THE PRODUCT SUPPORTERS STOCK & REFUSE TO PAY & LISTEN TO THEIR INTIMIDATION/TACTICS
rant over
9/11 widows 'enjoying husbands' death': conservative pundit
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» RE: Start A Boycott
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: mistery509 on Jun 8, 2006 6:42 PM
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Have a scrutineer cross out names of the people who voted to double check. Usually each party should have a scrutineer checking off the people who voted.
Get the Canadians to supervise the voting. They have done this to other countries and I am sure they could do it to the USA. Canada so far has honest elections but then we do not use the computer system.
Even if the ballot count will take 2 or 3 days, in the end the paper count will be accountable in an election as important as the presidential election.
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» Which Canadians?
Posted by: feller
» RE: Which Canadians?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Which Canadians?
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sidewinder on Jun 9, 2006 9:31 AM
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» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: robmikejas
» The Kennedys are Liars
Posted by: feller
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: feller
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: fogpatch
» For a million bucks I'll write for the Kennedys Too
Posted by: feller
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: feller
» Sad but true
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bc234 on Jun 10, 2006 6:05 PM
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It is an elaborate charade (not hard to do-- just pretend you actually care about your voters instead of the corps. & industries you actually work for) to make the average American think there is some kind of real "liberal vs. conservative" debate going on.
If anything, it's now become an extreme right wing vs. moderate conservative" debate. There is no such thing as a viable opposition party in the U.S.
The other gentleman who said the U.S. media will not run with RFK Jr.'s story is also correct-- because the media here is beholden to the ruling class.
It is also because of this corp. media that there is no opposition party. Any independent candidate seen as "liberal" is immediately portayed as a "kook".
The same media went out of its way to demonize Bill Clinton- an outsider who tried to go after the healthcare, tobacco and the drug industries and refused to invade Iraq.
This same media also portrays anyone with an intelligent argument refuting the 9-11 "official story" as a "nut".
Thanks to the media, people are now conditioned to equate the term "conspiracy theorist" with "insane mental patient".
There is no room for debate on anything that could make the ruling class look bad.
Even the term "ruling class" is never used in the media. Because it would point out to the masses the existence of it.
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» RE: bc
Posted by: concerned Canadian
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Posted by: YeahOKyourRight on Jun 10, 2006 7:45 PM
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Posted by: LieMeNot on Jun 11, 2006 6:17 AM
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After all the money spent for this goal, I just cant understand how the Repubs were still able to pull the alleged stunt.
Are those 10,000 lawyers blinds or something?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 11, 2006 8:59 AM
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The stolen elections in Florida and Ohio are receiving more and more documentation:Palast on Ohio 2004.
Of particular interest is the Florida recount sponsored by major media newspapers in the summer of 2000 - a recount that was suppressed after the 9/11 attacks in the name of 'national unity'. After all, a country under attack by foreign terrorists couldn't cope with the simultaneous scandal of a stolen election, now could we? Like George W Bush said in November 2000 when his polls were 80%+, "At least we're all together now".
The federal promotion of electronic voting machines and the media's abandoning the use of statistical exit polling should be a warning that media owners are collaborating with Republican politicians to manipulate the democratic process. You've got the media saying, "We've had so many problems with inaccurate exit polls that we're just going to abandon the process entirely" - what? You expect people to believe that drivel?
This is a big 'do-not-touch' issue with the media and Republicans -as the diversionary tactics displayed in the above comments should make clear. If the Republicans are desperate to avoid this issue, the response should be to talk about it at every possible opportunity.
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Posted by: concerned Canadian on Jun 12, 2006 9:10 AM
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Posted by: patti_s on Jun 13, 2006 4:10 AM
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» RE:Judges can be disbarred and unseated!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
Comments are closed-
Posted by: feller on Jun 7, 2006 2:43 AM
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The Kennedys were more interesting and powerful when they stole elections "fair and square", like in Illinois in 1960 with the help of Tony Accardo, Sam Giancana and other colorful political 'consultants' .
JFK had a wry sense of humor. He would find this article to be very amusing, along with what has become of the "liberal" movement. He would not be surprised; he had little use for idealists like Stevenson, Eleanor Roosevelt and the "let the UN do it" crowd of the '50's. He and his brother flattened the libs at the 60 convention, giving them but a glancing nod in his march to power. Jack Kennedy was a pragmatist, a ruthless one with as much fire in his belly for doing what had to be done as his allegedly more ruthless brother, RFK Jr.'s dad.
With JFK's passing and the subequent death of Bob Kennedy Sr., the Kennedys descended into media shadowdom and shallowness. They remain good copy for People and New York magazines. But, in fact, they have been irrelevant since 1968 in terms of real impact on who holds power in this country.
RFK Jr. is is truly pathetic. Kennedys were not whiners. Joe Kennedy embodied the American political system, warts and all. However now, the watered down his progeny whine. . Somewhere, down in Hell, Jimmy Hoffa has the last laugh, Jack is shaking his head in knowing cynicism, and Joe Kennedy is sneering.
As for Richard Nixon, he loves it, every minute of it.
Shakespearian tragedy evolved into farce.
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» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» When will conservatives become concerned about the integrity of their primary and other elections?
Posted by: doinaheckuvajob
» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
Posted by: taxidave
» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
Posted by: SufiLizard
» Republicans are Corporate Socialists
Posted by: feller
» RE: epublicans are Corporate Socialists
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: epublicans are Corporate Socialists
Posted by: feller
» RE: epublicans are Corporate Socialists
Posted by: aussidawg
» From a Wobbly.
Posted by: jugdish88
» The Enemy among us
Posted by: robmikejas
» Come on feller - tell us more about Diebold
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» Fact-free fandango.
Posted by: Longdream
» RE: Spitting at liberals because you have no way to refute the charges.
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» Feller is using quality propaganda methods
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» RE: Feller is using quality propaganda methods
Posted by: The Heretic
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: johnniewalker
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: beylehey
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: feller
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: polyquat50
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: aussidawg
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: American Reflections
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: feller
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: Spitting In the Image
Posted by: 1984NOW!!!
» Thanks!
Posted by: bonzi
Comments are closed-
Posted by: wli on Jun 7, 2006 3:56 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This will never be officially investigated, much less prosecuted. It's far, far too late. The courts are packed. The FBI is chock full of right-wing ideologues of the sort that went about COINTELPRO schemes (and still do, c.f. Bari/Cherney, THERMCON, et al, not to mention more recent usage of agents provocateurs against street demonstrators). Guess who's already got a majority in both Houses of Congress, a President, and several Supreme Court Justices in place to block any and all investigations?
I'll concede that it might wake some people up to what's going on, but how many weren't already convinced who will be? The statistics are grim. There's no converting right-wingers. They live in their own version of reality, speak a different language, and so on. There will be no Rosetta stone; they will remain brick walls. Perhaps it's appealing to the majority, since, after all, their majority of votes was thwarted? Not so hopeful; a large proportion of them noticed immediately, and if they're so readily thwarted, what are they expected to do now?
A large aspect of the "dilemma" we face is the criminalization of the state, where the criminals occupy the positions of power wherefrom they can exonerate themselves. This is not so readily resolved by mere impeachment or by publishing articles about how those now in power overthrew the government or by street demonstrations. The ejection of a single figurehead from office as a conciliatory gesture (as in the case of Nixon) has little bearing on the overall control of the government by the criminal organization, regardless of how high the office the figurehead holds. Furthermore, as the number of officials needing to be dealt with increases and their public visibility decreases, the stamina of reform efforts very quickly fizzles out. Hence the FBI was never seriously prosecuted for COINTELPRO (of which most Americans remain ignorant, similar efforts persist to this day, more violent and on grander scales), Congress wasn't examined at all for its role in such affairs (or Vietnam, or the various coups d'etat, or covert actions), etc.
It's wishful thinking at best to continue toeing the line that some sort of mere aberration happened that will later be corrected. In fact, the characterization of the electoral fraud belies the true nature of the events. The fraud was no mere "illegal partisan ploy." It was a coup d'etat in 2000. The fraud in 2004 was little more than maintaining the grip on power. Consider this very carefully. When a country and its government are overthrown, you don't get it back after waiting a few years, particularly not by default and especially not by means of elections. You also are guaranteed of no limits whatsoever on the agendas of the putschists.
A historical example is enlightening: the Corrupt Bargain of 1877, for the rigged election of 1876. It was not until 88 years later that the vote of African-Americans was "formally" restored, and even that rings hollow given the Jim Crow tactics of the 2000 and 2004 elections. The country is not lost for just Bush's term or a mere generation; it's lost for the foreseeable future.
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» Worst Supreme Court decision in US history?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
» florida supreme court, not elected representatives
Posted by: gerdhansel
» PAPER BALLOTS TO RESTORE DEMOCRACY
Posted by: Christie
» RE: PAPER BALLOTS TO RESTORE DEMOCRACY
Posted by: Christie
» So???
Posted by: alternetty
» RE: I hate to break the news to you....
Posted by: Hopeful
» RE: I hate to break the news to you....
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
» Supreme Court Should Be Elected
Posted by: Hopeful
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rsaxto on Jun 7, 2006 4:11 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: it is true
Posted by: wli
» RE: it is true
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: it is true
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: it is true
Posted by: jearls
» Gore and Kerry beat the Democrats
Posted by: feller
» RE: Feller is right about Gore and Kerry, guys.
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: it is true
Posted by: LieMeNot
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Posted by: Urstrly on Jun 7, 2006 4:50 AM
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» RE: Then we'd have to DO SOMETHING sickofsleaze
Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com
» RE: Then we'd have to DO SOMETHING
Posted by: mcginn
» RE: Then we'd have to DO SOMETHING
Posted by: kryptx
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Posted by: Citizendeane on Jun 7, 2006 5:02 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"The history of the present King of Great Britain [George III] is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world."
We need a second American Revolution. That is what American patriots do.
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» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism
Posted by: wli
» Re the Weather Underground...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: e the Weather Underground...
Posted by: feller
» RE: e the Weather Underground...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: e the Weather Underground...
Posted by: feller
» Yes a revolution
Posted by: cityofangelslady
» RE: Yes a revolution
Posted by: feller
» What 's the matter with this country is...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism
Posted by: feller
» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism from a far righty
Posted by: robmikejas
» RE: Usurpation and American Patriotism from a far righty
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: ladybug1@carrollsweb.com on Jun 7, 2006 5:36 AM
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» RE: sickofsleaze
Posted by: Doubtom
» RE: sickofsleaze
Posted by: COC
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 7, 2006 5:39 AM
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A very important and overlooked issue in the case of stolen elections is the absence of exit polls - for years, elections were accurately predicted on the basis of exit polls conducted by various media outlets - and yet now the media has absolutely abandoned this practice. There's only one logical explanation - exit polls that disagree with Diebold voting machines serve as powerful evidence of electoral fraud, and the media owners don't want this exposed.
Some citizen groups have decided to run local exit polls on their own dime, but it's a bit of an expensive proposition and again, these efforts are unlikely to get much media coverage. I'd suggest calling up every media outlet in your area, from the editors at the NYT to the cable news networks to your local area paper, and ask for a written, signed statement explaining why they've abandoned the practice of exit polling.
Consider another important media story - the Haditha massacres (and all the other ones). Would this even have broken the surface of the media pool without the courageous help of John Murtha? We need to support Democrats who have guts, and RFK Jr. is definetely in that category.
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» Come again: who's on crack?
Posted by: thoughtcriminal
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Posted by: Sment on Jun 7, 2006 6:31 AM
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Unless we have a candidate who will fight for the seat, what can we do but blog?
Hey Dems, How's about a little ambition!? I'll go to the matresses for a fair election, but only if the guy wants it.
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» RE: Let's Nominate Someone who Will Fight for It.
Posted by: patsy6
» Did Gore throw it?RE: Let's Nominate Someone who Will Fight for It.
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Let's Nominate Someone who Will Fight for It.
Posted by: Sment
Comments are closed-
Posted by: BPCBob on Jun 7, 2006 6:32 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
On the talking points (Democrat's need some help in this area), Don’t say “Republicans stole the election”. Stop being self referential, and say something like, “Republican’s committed massive election fraud”, “Republican’s stole the legitimate votes of 100’s of thousands of honest, hard working, American’s”, “Republican’s don’t just steal tax payer money and give it to their rich friends, they have the nerve to steal the votes of honest American’s”. Say the same thing over and over whenever you have the chance.
Don’t use underclass, wimpy, language (like disenfranchised voters) in your talking points, most voters don’t want to self identify with being helpless and abused.
The honesty of voting, along with the right of free speech and assembly, and the right to be free of unreasonable search and seizure, is the root of all our freedoms.
Republican's have eroded all of these rights and Democrat's have not been effective in protecting them. Draw a line in the sand on vote stealing. Do it now.
In addition to encouraging the Democratic party to get on the waiting list for a spine transplant we need to face another issue. The media may just stop paying for exit polling. What kind of pressure can be applied to the media to ensure that they keep funding and reporting exit polling?
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» RE: Great points. We need more!
Posted by: harpy
» RE: Democratic Party, Stand Up and Market This
Posted by: para-dice
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Posted by: concerned Canadian on Jun 7, 2006 6:45 AM
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» Go save an Eskimo
Posted by: feller
» Golly, Feller...
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
» RE: Go save an Eskimo
Posted by: concerned Canadian
» You may want to take another look at Estonia
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: nickprogresss on Jun 7, 2006 7:19 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But I'm afraid it might not last!
Check out this short video explaining how the Internet may soon be much more like the medium of TV - highly structured and controlled by financial interests!!
Spread the word - use the Internet to save the Internet.
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» RE: We could lose this outlet
Posted by: BPCBob
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Posted by: Marjorie G on Jun 7, 2006 8:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
He personally tried to find a whistleblower, supported lawsuits, but could not prove the pattern we needed to find to support overturning an election. We like a hero falling on a sword, no matter what. This was done by a million cuts, many votes lost because people left the polls or registrations shredded. Other than Triad avoiding a recount, there wasn't a way to prove anything about computer theft.
Still no discovery on those machines. It took years for Palm Beach to get a look at an internal audit log that showed 100,000 errors. In Alaska, 100,000 more votes than people, and many more cities, and in red states, that were suspiciously part of the popular vote total.
Still, if not for the south, Kerry won the popular and electoral vote, despite the fear and vote manipulation.
The smoking gun of electronic disenfranchisement of hispanics and native americans in New Mexico was months after, and Bill Richardson said no to Kerry's offer to pay for his recount. The DNC shut it down. They also did not help as much as they could have with the entire campaign, preferring to wait for 08, their own candidacies, etc., but the pattern too large to begin reclaiming the election.
Thirty lawyers said unprovable, and we'd have the same media who didn't want him to begin with, hounding daily for what we'd find. Remember Gore didn't make it past the Supreme Court. Media participated in Swftie attacks long after refuted, and as was mentioned about the NSA intelligence story withheld, clearly would not have been helpful. How about Viacom's Redstone substituting the National Guard story for the bigger Niger forgeries. Correct on the facts, but made to appear a hoax because of the photocopied set-up.
More importantly, the fear in this country made the idea of a recount more skiddish than now, more than 50% liking Bush and the war. Just think of what the Osama Bin Laden tape did that lest weekend, and we know, as Kerry said often, that we let him go in Tora Bora, as more helpful to their cause alive.
I've been working on election reform for years, and the public only now starting to realize the problem. It's an uphill fight.
How about not repeating the GOP talking points about our own candidates, criticizing them for what the media says about them, which is deliberately propagandist. We could have had the first extreme sport president, very alpha male, with six plus times sailing risky open ocean for hours, yet all we could do is parrot the elite windsurfing meme as a negative.
Let's fix our election system, and convince more officials of the need for honest elections, a bi-partisan need. We need more political will to get rid of these video game machines that are totally useless except for theft. Billions of taxpayer dollars for their own disenfranchisement. The paper trail is a placebo. The computer can print one thing and record another.
Say no to electronic voting. It can never be secure.
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» RE: Kerry did try
Posted by: 50566
» Amen?
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Arvy on Jun 7, 2006 8:10 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The choice we face in the UK and USA is one of different managers of the same policy. That's why your last election was fought on their personalities and not the policies.
The real power lies with us the consumer. Imagine if everyone stopped buying all but the essentials for a year. We'd have the corporations by the b*lls. OK that last bit is a bit simplistic but…
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» RE: Conservatives & Liberals
Posted by: Jaekos
» time to leave this pathetic country
Posted by: pleaseplanttrees
Comments are closed-
Posted by: ScottP on Jun 7, 2006 8:40 AM
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That's not a question, that's just plain obvious. Let's try some real questions like:
Why did Kerry and Edwards concede before the recount?
Why was the process that followed the election in Ohio called a recount, when in fact only a small number of specially selected ballots were run, and the computers were fixed to duplicate previous results?
Why did Dean withdraw when he was leading?
Why did the voters stop voting for Dean when he still appeared on the ballot? (the obvious "he withdrew" doesn't count, his withdrawal was non-binding and he could have been forced back in by the voters)
Why did the public vote for Kerry, an obvious robber baron, in the primary?
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» RE: real questions
Posted by: Marjorie G
» thank you
Posted by: 50566
Comments are closed-
Posted by: veronis on Jun 7, 2006 9:25 AM
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Posted by: Reader11722 on Jun 7, 2006 10:54 AM
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Last link (maybe he can write an article on censorship):
http://www.iuniverse.com/bookstore/
book_detail.asp?&isbn=0-595-38523-0
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Posted by: SufiLizard on Jun 7, 2006 11:27 AM
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But what can we do to minimize the damage of Republican election fraud in future elections?
Something almost anyone can do is volunteer to be a poll worker. I don't know what it's like in the rest of the country, but here they have trouble finding people to do it.
You can also try to get involved with your local election board. You may have to get involved with a political party at the local level, but then you can also work to steer the party in the right direction while you're at it.
One of the earlier posts suggested a second American Revolution, which would be doomed to failure if we tried resorting to armed revolt, but if people would channel that anger, outrage and energy into something that's actually productive we might have a chance to change things.
Unfortunately its so much easier to spend one Saturday at a massive, but completely ineffectual demonstration than to commit the time needed for effective, grass-roots reform. Whether it's as a poll worker, elections board or just getting out there and talking to people who don't already agree with you, it's going to take a lot of time and effort to even have an outside chance to change things.
Without the committment of time and effort there really is no hope.
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» RE: What can we do in '06 and '08?
Posted by: feller
» How very helpful, Feller
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
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Posted by: Marjorie G on Jun 7, 2006 1:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Salon critique was determined to stick to its own initial dismissal of stolen, as did others, because the fraud has not been proven. As if to say that all the disenfranchisement that was shown is somehow okay because we haven't proven the bottom line.
Everyone concentrated wrongly on seeking the invalidation, the title, not the questions of what we do now, and how do we prevent from happening again. Maybe a Rolling Stone move to sell magazines.
Computer fraud is very difficult to prove. With a 3 million popular vote difference, regardless of how we got there. Also a difficult investigation to wage at that point without proof.
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Posted by: babs on Jun 7, 2006 1:14 PM
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Many outlets reported the removing of thousands of eligible voters (Blacks and Hipanics) from the rolls, because they had the same names as felons - gee, Martinez, Jackson, Johnson, etc. pretty common names I see. Whatever happened to that story and its outcome - oh yeah, Britney Spears dropped her kid again - real important news.
And it is testimony to the hard core corruption and dishonesty that the 2000 election came down to Florida, which is owned by the Bush family - as is the supreme court - the highest court in the land isn't blind - it sees all in Republican red.
It is sickening. This administration has damaged the world, not just America. Count the freaking votes will ya? Or at least find a system that can accurately tally them.
Or are are you too busy watching Survivor and chowing down on those healthy Big Macs. David Letterman famously said that Americans don't care whether Donald Duck is in the White House. Donald Duck has more integrity and he's a cartoon character -albeit from the Mouse house.
Are you going to sit there again this time America, and do absolutely nothing?
The world is challenging the largest former democracy (now a bankrupt, rogue torture state) to get it right this time. Count with me... one, two, three, four... see, it isn't that hard.
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» RE: Will Florida do it again in 08?
Posted by: feller
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Posted by: cityofangelslady on Jun 7, 2006 3:58 PM
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How can local grassroots americans stoop so low as they did in the ohio and florida elections and who knows where else? What is it going to take to turn this thing around?
Leadership. The same team that put together the Rolling Stone article under Robert Kennedy Jr. Start a new party with Robert Kennedy the candidate in time to be elected 30 years after his father was gunned down for being a...
Prosecutor
hope he can pick up where his father and uncle left off.
We need Justice.
Kay in L.A.
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» Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: feller
» RE: Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: 50566
» RE: Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: feller
» RE: Plunging Into the Waters
Posted by: robmikejas
» I wouldn't leave someone to drown in Cold Blood
Posted by: feller
» RE: Oh yea! Just like good ol' Rush, eh?
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: Oh yea! Just like good ol' Rush, eh?
Posted by: feller
» But Can He Duck In Time?
Posted by: feller
» RE:What's that? Some kind of threat?
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
» RE: What's that? Some kind of threat?
Posted by: feller
» Re we need leadership
Posted by: HeidiLockwood
Comments are closed-
Posted by: truthteller on Jun 7, 2006 7:01 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Tom Brokaw was so quick to disavow the '04 exit polls that were right, then how quickly will a state gubanatorial race be forgotten?
I've read just about all of the articles and books cited in Thom's piece. I fully believe what they say about the massive fraud and theft by the GOP, but nothing is going to change - short of insurrection. It has to do with who wants it more, who feels with a deep reglious conviction that they are right. That group is obviously the fundy, theocratic Republicans, led in Ohio by Sec. Blackwell. They KNOW they are right, that God is on their side, and all else is justified by that belief. They will not quit, they will not be shamed until they succeed in taking over the government from the real majority for the forseeable future.
Earlier this evening I heard Lou Dobbs on CNN taking up the GOP talking point about Hugo Chavez being a strong-man dictator and the rigging of voting machines in Venezuela by a company that has bought the corrupt U. S. voting machine company Sequoia. They accused Chavez of having stolen the '02 recall vote electronically and used pre-election polling showing him losing that vote as proof that he stole it. This has to be the epitome of irony. The GOP is using polling results in another country, that by all independent accounts had a clean election to caste doubt on a voting machine company in that country running elections in the U. S.!
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» RE: There is no way Blackwell can lose and we can win
Posted by: 50566
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Pissed Off Cabbie on Jun 7, 2006 8:34 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once upon a time, Nelson Rockefeller had designs on the presidency. He and his brothers knew that Nelson was unelectable, so they had the current president thrown out, and Nelson appointed Vice-President. Then, there were three assassination attempts on his boss, Gerald Ford. Fate sided with us, though, and Nelson was, as his brother Laurance put it, a failure.
http://pissedoffcabbie.blogspot.com/
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Jun 7, 2006 10:27 PM
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COUNTER COULTER WITH YOUR WALLET
TPTB will get the msg very quickly if...
people just start a boycott of advertisers/manufacturers who pay these schills/talking heads their salaries, ...dump their stock, refuse to buy their books & newspapers, cancell your cable TV obligations getting ony the programming you want even if u have to pay more for less, and most importantly...
TALK THE TALK THAT THE CORPORATE CHIEFS MUST LISTEN TOO...TALK WITH YOUR WALLET... YOU MUST IGNORE THE IGNORANT... REFUSE TO BE SUCKED INTO THEIR ORBIT... BOYCOTT THE PRODUCT SUPPORTERS, DUMP THE PRODUCT SUPPORTERS STOCK & REFUSE TO PAY & LISTEN TO THEIR INTIMIDATION/TACTICS
rant over
9/11 widows 'enjoying husbands' death': conservative pundit
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» RE: Start A Boycott
Posted by: aussidawg
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Posted by: mistery509 on Jun 8, 2006 6:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Have a scrutineer cross out names of the people who voted to double check. Usually each party should have a scrutineer checking off the people who voted.
Get the Canadians to supervise the voting. They have done this to other countries and I am sure they could do it to the USA. Canada so far has honest elections but then we do not use the computer system.
Even if the ballot count will take 2 or 3 days, in the end the paper count will be accountable in an election as important as the presidential election.
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» Which Canadians?
Posted by: feller
» RE: Which Canadians?
Posted by: famouspipeliner
» RE: Which Canadians?
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sidewinder on Jun 9, 2006 9:31 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: robmikejas
» The Kennedys are Liars
Posted by: feller
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: Ellie1
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: feller
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: fogpatch
» For a million bucks I'll write for the Kennedys Too
Posted by: feller
» RE: FK, Jr. .............
Posted by: feller
» Sad but true
Posted by: feller
Comments are closed-
Posted by: bc234 on Jun 10, 2006 6:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is an elaborate charade (not hard to do-- just pretend you actually care about your voters instead of the corps. & industries you actually work for) to make the average American think there is some kind of real "liberal vs. conservative" debate going on.
If anything, it's now become an extreme right wing vs. moderate conservative" debate. There is no such thing as a viable opposition party in the U.S.
The other gentleman who said the U.S. media will not run with RFK Jr.'s story is also correct-- because the media here is beholden to the ruling class.
It is also because of this corp. media that there is no opposition party. Any independent candidate seen as "liberal" is immediately portayed as a "kook".
The same media went out of its way to demonize Bill Clinton- an outsider who tried to go after the healthcare, tobacco and the drug industries and refused to invade Iraq.
This same media also portrays anyone with an intelligent argument refuting the 9-11 "official story" as a "nut".
Thanks to the media, people are now conditioned to equate the term "conspiracy theorist" with "insane mental patient".
There is no room for debate on anything that could make the ruling class look bad.
Even the term "ruling class" is never used in the media. Because it would point out to the masses the existence of it.
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» RE: bc
Posted by: concerned Canadian
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Posted by: YeahOKyourRight on Jun 10, 2006 7:45 PM
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Posted by: LieMeNot on Jun 11, 2006 6:17 AM
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After all the money spent for this goal, I just cant understand how the Repubs were still able to pull the alleged stunt.
Are those 10,000 lawyers blinds or something?
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Jun 11, 2006 8:59 AM
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The stolen elections in Florida and Ohio are receiving more and more documentation:Palast on Ohio 2004.
Of particular interest is the Florida recount sponsored by major media newspapers in the summer of 2000 - a recount that was suppressed after the 9/11 attacks in the name of 'national unity'. After all, a country under attack by foreign terrorists couldn't cope with the simultaneous scandal of a stolen election, now could we? Like George W Bush said in November 2000 when his polls were 80%+, "At least we're all together now".
The federal promotion of electronic voting machines and the media's abandoning the use of statistical exit polling should be a warning that media owners are collaborating with Republican politicians to manipulate the democratic process. You've got the media saying, "We've had so many problems with inaccurate exit polls that we're just going to abandon the process entirely" - what? You expect people to believe that drivel?
This is a big 'do-not-touch' issue with the media and Republicans -as the diversionary tactics displayed in the above comments should make clear. If the Republicans are desperate to avoid this issue, the response should be to talk about it at every possible opportunity.
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Posted by: concerned Canadian on Jun 12, 2006 9:10 AM
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Posted by: patti_s on Jun 13, 2006 4:10 AM
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» RE:Judges can be disbarred and unseated!
Posted by: Againstthewindwalking
Starbucks' Cop-Out to Gun Nuts: Customers Served Coffee While Strapped
ACORN Smear Collaborator Claims Persecution to Raise Money for Her Legal Troubles
Bad Policies Are Really What's Driving California's Huge Prison Costs




