COMMENTS: 41
When Will I See My Kids Again?
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But Gloria has even more at stake than some of the others who would be affected by the bill. She is one of many mothers who have entered this country without papers, worked here for a number of years and left their children in their native countries. For most of them, the only chance they have of seeing their children again is a changed immigration law that would let them either bring their children here or visit them and return without fear of deportation.
In Guatemala, Gloria was married to Frederico for 10 years. Frederico was an emotionally and physically abusive alcoholic.
"My husband worked, but he drank all his earnings," says Gloria. I had to work full-time and take on extra jobs so that I could feed our six children." Though her two older children, 15 and 20, worked alongside her at a fireworks factory, the younger ones ranged from 2 to 9. "We lived humbly," she adds, "in a rickety shack made of shabby wooden boards."
The idea to leave Guatemala had never occurred to Gloria; the opportunity just dropped into her lap one day. For extra money, she had sewn some dresses for a neighbor. While trying on the outfit, the neighbor suddenly asked Gloria if she would be like to go to the United States.
"Just like that she asked me," recalls Gloria, "She told me her aunt was taking people north."
The journey would begin the following day, at four in the morning. A devout Christian, Gloria prayed for God's help and guidance and ultimately decided to join the woman's aunt. The only person she informed of her departure was her husband. According to Gloria, her husband let her go because of an outstanding debt. He reasoned that if she worked in the United States, she would earn enough for them to pay it off. Gloria's mother-in-law was left in charge of their six children.
Tears well in Gloria's eyes when she remembers the day she left. She was still breastfeeding her youngest child. Many times during her journey she had to squeeze the milk from her engorged breasts. She wondered whether the little boy suffered hunger when she left. "My heart still breaks in half when I think about it," she says. "You long to hold them, and they are so far away."
Now, the only contact Gloria has with her children is on the phone. "Sometimes my children get angry with me," she says. "One time, my 16-year-old daughter told me she wished she could change parents. She said she wanted a mother who would be beside her, someone she could confide in. The phone isn't enough.
"It hurts me when she talks that way," says Gloria, "But when I remind her that I am working here so that she can have food on the table she apologizes." Then, with a proud gleam in her eye, Gloria adds, "Her grades are good, and she'd like to be a nurse. I remind her that if I had stayed she wouldn't be going to school. She'd probably be someone's maid."
Unlike Gloria's abrupt departure, Rosa's choice to leave her children was more calculated. She had worked briefly in the United States and knew what it would entail. When her husband, 10 years her senior, died from a cardiac arrest, she became a widow at the age of 25. He left her with three daughters ranging from 3 to 13 years old. She recalls how she and her daughters crowded together in her parents' house with barely enough to eat. That's when she decided to return to the United States on her own. Her mother urged her to go ahead, reassuring her that she would take good care of her children. Rosa's tears surface as she remembers how hard it was to tell her daughters that she was leaving. "We all cried," she says, "But it was worse later, when I found myself in the United States without them."
Rosa called her daughters as often as she could and saved as much of her janitorial and housekeeping salaries as she could manage in order to bring them to the United States.
After nine years, she returned to Mexico to accompany them in their journey to the United States. She had heard horror stories of rape and violence at the border and wanted to spare her daughters from such harm. She feels proud now that her daughters are with her. The four of them live together in a studio apartment in San Francisco. "The girls are doing well," she reports, "The youngest one makes good marks at school and the oldest is now working. They are serious girls. We feel complete now."
Not all women who leave their children with relatives are guaranteed good care for them. When she left El Salvador to join her husband in the United States, Elizabeth turned to her aging mother and older sister to care for her two young daughters and son. But she recalls feeling uneasy. "Every time I called, and I called at all hours, they were at home rather than at school," she says. "What was worse was that every time friends visited them, my sister would call me and accuse me of spying on them. But when a friend who had just seen them, handed me $50 and told me to send it to my kids, I knew something was very wrong."
In fact, as she later found out, her children were malnourished and neglected. Her youngest daughter's head was full of lice. They hadn't been attending school regularly. "Who knows where the money was going," says Elizabeth.
"My first instinct was to return home," she says, "I told my husband I was going to call the immigration authorities and ask them to deport me. " At her husband's urging, she decided to call his mother and ask for her help instead. Her mother-in-law, a woman much younger than her own mother, immediately picked up her children and brought them to her home.
Juana Flores, co-director of Mujeres Unidas & Activas, an immigrant women's rights organization in San Francisco says, that Elizabeth's experience is not unusual. "Sometimes the grandparents use the children as leverage for support of their own. They know that if they care for their grandchildren, the parents will continue to send them money. If the parents reunite with their children, the money and, with it, their own means of survival might end. Grandparents have been known to hide children from their parents. They don't want to lose that financial support."
Adds Flores, "These situations tear families apart. We've seen so many women suffering here because they left their children behind."
Indeed, according to a study published by Jeanne Miranda and a team of psychologists for the American Psychiatric Association, immigrant women who are separated from their children are likely to experience symptoms of depression. Their children are not immune from mental health risks either. Harvard researcher Carola Suarez-Orozco reports that in an ongoing study of more than 400 immigrant children, 85 percent experienced separation from one or both parents during the immigration process. According to Suarez-Orozco, such children are likely to exhibit symptoms of depression.
Elizabeth and Gloria still hope every day that their families can join them in the United States. They have pinned their hopes on passage of congressional legislation allowing long-term undocumented immigrants to gain legal status here.
"I can't wait for the day when I can bring my children here," says Gloria. "As a mother you pay a heavy price when you immigrate here without your children. But they also pay a price, because they grow up without their mother."
*All the women's names have been changed as their undocumented status makes them vulnerable to deportation from the United States.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: cry0fan on May 25, 2006 5:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THe overclass wants cheap labor and wants to disempower the working class, so they have for centuries brought in immigrant scabs to drive down wages by causing the labor supply to grow faster than labor demand.
But the American citizens has in the past instinctively known what was going on. But now, with the overclass so much in control of centralized mass media and funding nonprofits to generate large amounts of propaganda, there now exist many americans who are fooled into thinking that mass immigration of labor scabs is a good thing. It is not.
And this article is just more overclass propaganda used to decrease wages and disempower workers. Right now, there are THOUSANDS of your felllow American citizens who cannot even get a job for $6 an hour because employers would rather hire illegal aliens or new immigrants because they are more desperate.
And there are even more thousands of American citizens whose wages have failed to keep up with inflation because of the massive influx of labor scabs from Mexico and other low wage countries.
This means that many thousands, even millions of Americans can no longer afford healthcare. And so they are DYING because of this.
And the Pseudoleft is right in there with the overclass generating reams of pro-immigration propaganda, propaganda that attempts to glorify these labor scabs that are killing off many thousands of American citizens. Yes, the same thing is happening in Mexico and has for decades, but now the overclass and the Rightwing and the PseudoLeft have been successful in importing the misery of the third world into America.
And this article and others like it on Alternet and other so called Liberal media sites are all helping to manufacture consent for even more mass immigration of those cheap labor scabs.
And more and more Americans are dying, are getting poorer.
Their deaths are on the hands of the American overclass and their rightwing and pseudoliberal collaborators and minions. I wonder if you can sleep at night. I do hope your dreams may be haunted by the thoughts of the Americans that are being killed off and having their lives shortened by this murderous pro-immigration propaganda campaign.
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» RE: I'm sorry for you
Posted by: tabaumann
» RE: I'm sorry for you
Posted by: cry0fan
» Wrapped in the flag
Posted by: jwg
» RE: The PseudoLeft Propaganda continues to Deify, Glorify and Empathize these illegal labor scabs
Posted by: threedfm
» Broken Record
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gar on May 25, 2006 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on AlterNet. Get real. I've seen better propaganda on Corn Flake boxes.
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» RE: Better Propaganda on Corn Flake Boxes
Posted by: azura
» RE: Better Propaganda on Corn Flake Boxes
Posted by: FedUp
» YES, Let's help Guatemalans start organic fruit co-ops.
Posted by: plantland
» RE: YES , YES , YES
Posted by: threedfm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 25, 2006 7:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Choice: Die with your family in Mexico or die trying in the U.S.
Posted by: plainsdrifter
» RE: Choice: Die with your family in Mexico or die trying in the U.S.
Posted by: zooeyhall
» Either way, you're going to hurt the illegals...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: ither way, you're going to hurt the illegals...
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Choice: Die with your family in Mexico or die trying in the U.S.
Posted by: peacefulaim
» You can't save everyone
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on May 25, 2006 11:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: chica on May 25, 2006 11:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, the number of immigrants arriving from Central America do not compare with those from Mexico largely the result of NAFTA. This, however, is not the issue. Illigal immigration has been a problem for some time. Cryofan is right and his/her anger is justified. The blame is laid exactly where is should be, on the employers who hire them and a government ( both US and Mexico) which supports them.
I agree that this article is largely propaganda intended to incite the type of responses I am seeing. I suspect the immigration issue is being purposely used to create divisiveness among the US public. Let us not misdirect our frustration and anger. WE are all being used.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: PROTEST at home in MEXICO
Posted by: threedfm
» RE: Creating divisiveness
Posted by: threedfm
» RE: Creating divisiveness
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sarabeth on May 25, 2006 2:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't kid yourself--it isn't anything but Racism.
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» RE: divide and conquer
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: krose on May 25, 2006 2:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT'S SAD, but they are in our country ILLEGALLY, and I have no patience with that! They should not be here ILLEGALLY! Ideally, there should be no poverty in the world, but the world is not ideal. We have MORE THAN OUR OWN SHARE of poverty, sickness, mental illness, and problems with which to cope. WE CANNOT TAKE ON THOSE OF THE REST OF THE WORLD, NOR SHOULD THAT BE EXPECTED! I used to be a "bleeding heart" liberal. Now I am just a liberal; one that is more practical and educated to the facts. CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!
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» RE: THESE WOMEN CHOSE TO LEAVE THEIR CHILDREN!
Posted by: gargirl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Elmowilcox on May 25, 2006 3:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Tired of this business....
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kelly on May 25, 2006 6:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032005/pov/new03_100_01.htm
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» RE: Why are the poor in the US being asked to shoulder the burden?
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: Why are the poor in the US being asked to shoulder the burden?
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gypsy55 on May 25, 2006 7:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our health benefits and retirement losses have nothing to do with immigration..they are a direct result of loss of unions providing a venue for solidarity and fairness...as in the robber baron days...people must stand together. Stop bashing the lowest person on the rung...this is a ploy to further divide this country and in the mean-time rich corporations are in charge of wages and shrinking benefits. ..their profits soar as our wages and benefit packages shrink...
when wages rise in one poor country corporations pull up stakes and move on to a country that is even more desperately poor. the local economy of the country being plundered is destroyed...local farms and businesses can't began to compete with rich agri-business...
corporations now pay their CEO's as much as 400 times the amount the laborer is paid who makes their profits,fat benefit packages and bonuses possible. Our wages ...the lowly workers continues to slide...and we can be fired for nearly any whim of the moment.
Our good jobs are being outsourced as a result of the race to the bottom...the bottom line is money not human rights...education, healthcare and retirement. The rich have these already and are continuing to exploit low paid workers.
The immigration issue is one needing to be addressed-a minimum wage must be paid to workers who are needed in this country...
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» RE: cheap crap on the backs of the poor
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: plantland on May 25, 2006 9:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One widow of twenty five appeared to have started her family at twelve years of age.
Many children, and starting at a young age, are the the engines of overpopulation.
Low wage workers in famililes of eight are not doing well in the United States, either.
The crush on resources that is happening everywhere- farmers pushing into and cutting down the Amazon, Africans forced to live in less desirable malaria ridden places - also is stamping out animals from coral through frogs and rhinoceroses.
If no one talks about family planning to the immigrant women, their six children are apt to have many children as well. The earth can't handle it- irrespective of borders.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: plantland on May 25, 2006 9:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currrent law says that citizens can bring in parents and brothers and sisters , as well as children. Legislation to limit familly members to the immediate family were voted down-
this was in the past- didn't even come up this time.
www.numbersUSA.org has information about various votes, and , more importantly, has population projections.
Not discussing actual numbers means that we are not discussing the need to somehow build more schools, find more housing, have enough utilities, pipe clean water in- whoops, where are we going to find that, especially in Southern California and Texas_at a time when we have unserved people in the shadows of the Gulof Coast, East St. Louis, Camden, and could easily be going bust financially, to boot.
We aren't facing the problems we have.
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on May 25, 2006 9:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the left is for open borders, then it should state it so, openly. But the odd thing is, no one really knows what the left really thinks on this issue.
(Oddly enough, I am not all that adverse to open borders--I have been hassled one time too many by customs goons while travelling legally).
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: cry0fan on May 25, 2006 5:16 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
THe overclass wants cheap labor and wants to disempower the working class, so they have for centuries brought in immigrant scabs to drive down wages by causing the labor supply to grow faster than labor demand.
But the American citizens has in the past instinctively known what was going on. But now, with the overclass so much in control of centralized mass media and funding nonprofits to generate large amounts of propaganda, there now exist many americans who are fooled into thinking that mass immigration of labor scabs is a good thing. It is not.
And this article is just more overclass propaganda used to decrease wages and disempower workers. Right now, there are THOUSANDS of your felllow American citizens who cannot even get a job for $6 an hour because employers would rather hire illegal aliens or new immigrants because they are more desperate.
And there are even more thousands of American citizens whose wages have failed to keep up with inflation because of the massive influx of labor scabs from Mexico and other low wage countries.
This means that many thousands, even millions of Americans can no longer afford healthcare. And so they are DYING because of this.
And the Pseudoleft is right in there with the overclass generating reams of pro-immigration propaganda, propaganda that attempts to glorify these labor scabs that are killing off many thousands of American citizens. Yes, the same thing is happening in Mexico and has for decades, but now the overclass and the Rightwing and the PseudoLeft have been successful in importing the misery of the third world into America.
And this article and others like it on Alternet and other so called Liberal media sites are all helping to manufacture consent for even more mass immigration of those cheap labor scabs.
And more and more Americans are dying, are getting poorer.
Their deaths are on the hands of the American overclass and their rightwing and pseudoliberal collaborators and minions. I wonder if you can sleep at night. I do hope your dreams may be haunted by the thoughts of the Americans that are being killed off and having their lives shortened by this murderous pro-immigration propaganda campaign.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: I'm sorry for you
Posted by: tabaumann
» RE: I'm sorry for you
Posted by: cry0fan
» Wrapped in the flag
Posted by: jwg
» RE: The PseudoLeft Propaganda continues to Deify, Glorify and Empathize these illegal labor scabs
Posted by: threedfm
» Broken Record
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gar on May 25, 2006 6:25 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Come on AlterNet. Get real. I've seen better propaganda on Corn Flake boxes.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Better Propaganda on Corn Flake Boxes
Posted by: azura
» RE: Better Propaganda on Corn Flake Boxes
Posted by: FedUp
» YES, Let's help Guatemalans start organic fruit co-ops.
Posted by: plantland
» RE: YES , YES , YES
Posted by: threedfm
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zooeyhall on May 25, 2006 7:21 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Choice: Die with your family in Mexico or die trying in the U.S.
Posted by: plainsdrifter
» RE: Choice: Die with your family in Mexico or die trying in the U.S.
Posted by: zooeyhall
» Either way, you're going to hurt the illegals...
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: ither way, you're going to hurt the illegals...
Posted by: YogiBear
» RE: Choice: Die with your family in Mexico or die trying in the U.S.
Posted by: peacefulaim
» You can't save everyone
Posted by: YogiBear
Comments are closed-
Posted by: owleyes on May 25, 2006 11:05 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: chica on May 25, 2006 11:36 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
However, the number of immigrants arriving from Central America do not compare with those from Mexico largely the result of NAFTA. This, however, is not the issue. Illigal immigration has been a problem for some time. Cryofan is right and his/her anger is justified. The blame is laid exactly where is should be, on the employers who hire them and a government ( both US and Mexico) which supports them.
I agree that this article is largely propaganda intended to incite the type of responses I am seeing. I suspect the immigration issue is being purposely used to create divisiveness among the US public. Let us not misdirect our frustration and anger. WE are all being used.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: PROTEST at home in MEXICO
Posted by: threedfm
» RE: Creating divisiveness
Posted by: threedfm
» RE: Creating divisiveness
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: sarabeth on May 25, 2006 2:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't kid yourself--it isn't anything but Racism.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: divide and conquer
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: krose on May 25, 2006 2:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IT'S SAD, but they are in our country ILLEGALLY, and I have no patience with that! They should not be here ILLEGALLY! Ideally, there should be no poverty in the world, but the world is not ideal. We have MORE THAN OUR OWN SHARE of poverty, sickness, mental illness, and problems with which to cope. WE CANNOT TAKE ON THOSE OF THE REST OF THE WORLD, NOR SHOULD THAT BE EXPECTED! I used to be a "bleeding heart" liberal. Now I am just a liberal; one that is more practical and educated to the facts. CHARITY BEGINS AT HOME!
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: THESE WOMEN CHOSE TO LEAVE THEIR CHILDREN!
Posted by: gargirl
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Elmowilcox on May 25, 2006 3:41 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Tired of this business....
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Kelly on May 25, 2006 6:55 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
http://pubdb3.census.gov/macro/032005/pov/new03_100_01.htm
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: Why are the poor in the US being asked to shoulder the burden?
Posted by: VisionQuest
» RE: Why are the poor in the US being asked to shoulder the burden?
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: gypsy55 on May 25, 2006 7:51 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our health benefits and retirement losses have nothing to do with immigration..they are a direct result of loss of unions providing a venue for solidarity and fairness...as in the robber baron days...people must stand together. Stop bashing the lowest person on the rung...this is a ploy to further divide this country and in the mean-time rich corporations are in charge of wages and shrinking benefits. ..their profits soar as our wages and benefit packages shrink...
when wages rise in one poor country corporations pull up stakes and move on to a country that is even more desperately poor. the local economy of the country being plundered is destroyed...local farms and businesses can't began to compete with rich agri-business...
corporations now pay their CEO's as much as 400 times the amount the laborer is paid who makes their profits,fat benefit packages and bonuses possible. Our wages ...the lowly workers continues to slide...and we can be fired for nearly any whim of the moment.
Our good jobs are being outsourced as a result of the race to the bottom...the bottom line is money not human rights...education, healthcare and retirement. The rich have these already and are continuing to exploit low paid workers.
The immigration issue is one needing to be addressed-a minimum wage must be paid to workers who are needed in this country...
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» RE: cheap crap on the backs of the poor
Posted by: peacefulaim
Comments are closed-
Posted by: plantland on May 25, 2006 9:17 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One widow of twenty five appeared to have started her family at twelve years of age.
Many children, and starting at a young age, are the the engines of overpopulation.
Low wage workers in famililes of eight are not doing well in the United States, either.
The crush on resources that is happening everywhere- farmers pushing into and cutting down the Amazon, Africans forced to live in less desirable malaria ridden places - also is stamping out animals from coral through frogs and rhinoceroses.
If no one talks about family planning to the immigrant women, their six children are apt to have many children as well. The earth can't handle it- irrespective of borders.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: plantland on May 25, 2006 9:44 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Currrent law says that citizens can bring in parents and brothers and sisters , as well as children. Legislation to limit familly members to the immediate family were voted down-
this was in the past- didn't even come up this time.
www.numbersUSA.org has information about various votes, and , more importantly, has population projections.
Not discussing actual numbers means that we are not discussing the need to somehow build more schools, find more housing, have enough utilities, pipe clean water in- whoops, where are we going to find that, especially in Southern California and Texas_at a time when we have unserved people in the shadows of the Gulof Coast, East St. Louis, Camden, and could easily be going bust financially, to boot.
We aren't facing the problems we have.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Burton on May 25, 2006 9:59 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If the left is for open borders, then it should state it so, openly. But the odd thing is, no one really knows what the left really thinks on this issue.
(Oddly enough, I am not all that adverse to open borders--I have been hassled one time too many by customs goons while travelling legally).
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
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