COMMENTS: 82
A Nurse's Courage
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Here in Albuquerque, a local Veterans Affairs nurse has felt the crack down on civil liberties firsthand. In September, shortly after Hurricane Katrina struck, Laura Berg wrote a letter to the Alibi, a local newspaper, criticizing the Bush administration's handling of Hurricane Katrina and the Iraq war. Berg wrote, "as a VA nurse working with returning... vets, I know the public has no sense of the additional devastating human and financial costs of post-traumatic stress disorder." She urged readers to, "act forcefully to remove a government administration playing games of smoke and mirrors and vicious deceit."
The response to Berg's letter was harsh. Her office computer was seized. And the government announced it was investigating her for sedition -- that's right, sedition. V.A. human resources chief Mel Hooker wrote in a letter to Berg, "The Agency is bound by law to investigate and pursue any act which potentially represents sedition."
To date the VA has yet to issue a public apology to Berg. But pressure is building. In Washington, New Mexico Sen. Jeff Bingaman has asked Veterans Affairs Secretary James Nicholson to thoroughly investigate the VA's actions. Bingaman wrote "In a democracy, expressing disagreement with the government's actions does not amount to sedition or insurrection. It is, and must remain, protected speech."
Amy Goodman: Today, Laura Berg joins us here in Albuquerque in her first broadcast interview. We are also joined by Larry Kronen, an attorney with the New Mexico chapter of the America Civil Liberties Union. We welcome you both to Democracy Now!
Laura Berg: Thank you.
Goodman: Laura, talk about the letter that you wrote to your local paper, The Alibi. When did you write it?
Berg: I wrote the letter within a week after Katrina hit the coast. And I had been just devastated by the scenes that I saw there. I was watching. Actually, it was my first experience to really be thoroughly exploring alternative media, actually reports right from the people on the streets as far as their experiences of abandonment, the scenes that were so much like a third world country. I think we have been really privileged in this country and not had to see close-up experiences like that. And it's just absolutely devastating. I have been a V.A. nurse for 15 years.
Goodman: Where do you work?
Berg: I work in behavioral health at the local V.A. in out-patient area.
Goodman: And what's your specialty?
Berg: My specialty right now is working on-call for emergencies, mental health emergencies. In the past, I have worked as doing mental health assessment for new patients. And, of course, that would be many returning vets from the Persian Gulf or from the current conflict.
Goodman: And so, you wrote this letter.
Berg: Pardon?
Goodman: So you wrote a letter.
Berg: I wrote this letter. I think, you know, I have -- all of us at the V.A., there's very many compassionate people working there, very many dedicated people. And we've worked with, you know, veterans from Vietnam, veterans from Korea, veterans from World War II. We were seeing more and more World War II veterans, you know, triggered for the first time by Iraq and actually, you know, having memories and nightmares coming out.
Goodman: You are saying now that they are triggered?
Berg: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely.
Goodman: So, World War II vets are coming in.
Berg: Oh, absolutely. Absolutely, so we are seeing --
Goodman: What are the complaints?
Berg: Just nightmares, not able to sleep. More tension, anxiety, irritability, aggressiveness. Some detachment, you know, from reality at the present time. Those kind of things. I'm just saying that these things together, to me, you know, really really came together when I saw Katrina. I was aware that, you know, money to protect the levees, to protect the Gulf Coast, had been diverted to the war. Also -- excuse me. I'm dry. The National Guardsmen, you know, had been diverted to the war. And then, there was no response, you know. And we say that we are fighting to, you know, for the land of the free and the home of the brave. We have Homeland Security, and I was really just overwhelmed, and I wrote a letter.
Goodman: Is this the first time you have written a letter?
Berg: That's the first time I have written a letter of that nature.
Goodman: And so, you wrote it a week or two after Katrina hit?
Berg: Mm-hmm. Yes.
Goodman: And it got published?
Berg: It got published, within a week or two, yes.
Goodman: What was the response?
Berg: It was published, and then it was a couple days interim, and I went into work on a Monday. I immediately had co-workers come to me and say, "We really support your letter but you may be in trouble, and you need to go to the union immediately." I went to the union, and I was told by the union that I had been reported up -- my letter and me had been reported up through V.A. channels to the F.B.I
Goodman: To the F.B.I.?
Berg: To the F.B.I. And, you know, as a direct response to my publication of this letter. And --
Goodman: Were you surprised?
Berg: Oh, I was shocked. I was absolutely shocked. I was -- I was unbelieving. I was frightened, very, very frightened. And I felt this was, you know, intimidation. You know. And it was -- I was told that it wasn't really -- it was just through channels, you know, it wasn't anything really against me personally, just that my letter came in in a search engine, and it was sent up. It wasn't really local. However, it was, oh, a week later that approximately a week later I was sitting at may desk and there was a knock on the door. And my -- the information security representatives came to impound my computer. They served me with a memo saying there was a belief I had written this on my work computer, and that would be a misuse of government equipment. So I guess I could say I was -- at that point it was local, you know. It was about me. It was about my letter. And it was local repercussions, so this was a memo written by our human resources director, Mr. Hooker.
Goodman: So you had your computer seized?
Berg: Yes, it was taken -- I was in the middle of writing, you know, my notes for the patients I had seen. The computer was taken. And, of course, I asked, "Is there some other computer for me do my work?" And no one had thought about that. And it was returned, you know, within a day. But I understand the hard drive -- and I do know now that the hard drive was removed and examined. And I have to say, you know, this was an incredibly frightening experience. To be told that you are reported to the F.B.I., that can mean, under the current PATRIOT Act's sneak and peek, I mean, my home can be - you know, people can go in. I could be followed. My phone could be tapped. It was just a chilling experience. And also for my co-workers, too, I have to say.
Goodman: Why? What has happened to them?
Berg: Well, people, you know -- I mean, we believe we have, you know, First Amendment right to free speech. But we have been -- you know, to have harassment or intimidation -
Goodman: Are they afraid?
Berg: Yes, they are. Yes, they are. And I have had - I've actually had calls and emails from federal employees across the nation, you know, in support and thanking for me being brave, you know, to actually, number one, write the letter, and number two, you know, to actually say this is not right.
Goodman: Let me bring Larry Kronen into this.
Berg: Sure, please.
Goodman: Of the American Civil Liberties Union. The significance of what has happened to Laura Berg, V.A. nurse, writes -- where did you write the letter?
Berg: I wrote it at home.
Goodman: Writes a letter -- and does that even matter, but writes the letter at home to her local paper concerned about government policy?
Larry Kronen: I don't think it really matters where she wrote it. Of course, the V.A. has a right to check their own computers. They own it. But the pretense of coming in and saying that they had a belief that she wrote it on their computer, and when Laura wrote them asking what's the basis of your belief, they wrote back saying, "We believe, because we believe you did it." There was no reasonable belief that she did it. So there's a level of intimidation. And I think it's a wave of intimidation that's going on throughout the country, in chilling people's free speech., going from the protests that happened after we invaded Iraq and the violence from the law enforcement against those protests to Cindy Sheehan being arrested at the State of the Union address.
Goodman: Wearing a t-shirt.
Kronen: Wearing a t-shirt. Not protesting. Not making any vocal protest. And there's other incidents throughout the country of these intimidation factors going on. And even though there was no adverse employment action against Laura, there's a chilling effect of free speech.
Goodman: Laura, when did you start hearing the word "sedition" being thrown around?
Berg: Well, so I had been reported to the F.B.I., as is the report I had, again. I -- my computer was taken. And I decided I really did need to write a memo to the director and to Mr. Hooker and ask on what basis had these actions been taken. And I received a memo back from Mr. Hooker.
Goodman: And now, Mr. Hooker is Mel Hooker, chief of human resources?
Berg: Who is still in his position, by the way.
Goodman: In Veterans' Affairs. And Mary Dowling, the director?
Berg: Mm-hmm. But they also said, let's see -- Kronen: That's the first we heard the term "sedition" being used.
Berg: Right. Exactly.
Kronen: In the memo that they wrote in response to Laura's memo on November 9, they wrote the excerpt, which you quoted, that they have, bound by law, to investigate and pursue any act which potentially represents sedition. And at that point it was just over the top.
Berg: Exactly.
Goodman: What does "sedition" mean?
Kronen: It's basically taking -- advocating the forceful, violent overthrow of the government.
Goodman: And what penalty do you face?
Kronen: Years in jail.
Goodman: So, where does this go from here? Your senator has taken this up. Senator Bingaman?
Berg: Yes, and I do want to say when I wrote this letter, I sent it to Senator Bingaman, and I sent it to Senator Domenici, as well as to The Alibi. And so, he has written to the secretary of the Veteran Affairs, again, saying that he would like -- he would like an investigation, you know, and he would like some retraining of V.A. employees. I think have you that in front of you. You can actually -- we are asking for a public apology. We -- you know, we really want the V.A. to be able to say this is wrong, what we did. And we would like the rest of the federal employees to hear that across the country.
Goodman: Let me read again from the memo of November 9 from the Chief of Human Resources Management Service. "In your letter to the editor of the weekly Alibi," the memo says, "you declared yourself a V.A. nurse and publicly declared the government, which employs you, to have tragically misplaced priorities and criminal negligence and advocated 'act forcefully to remove a government administration playing games of smoke and mirrors and vicious deceit.' The agency is bound by law to investigate and pursue any act, which potentially represents sedition. You are reminded that government equipment is just that, and the government may apprehend, investigate use or permit the use of such at its discretion and direction. Signed, Mel Hooker, Chief of Human Resources Management Service. " Your response to this letter, saying -- to investigate you for sedition?
Berg: Amy, I did not sign away my First Amendment rights as a citizen, you know, by choosing to serve in the federal government and choosing to serve veterans and care for people that have been wounded like this, you know. And this letter sounds like something from a totalitarian regime, you know, that we are supposedly going in and share our democracy. This is way out of line. This was way out line. I have a right to speak my opinion. I have a right to say I'm a V.A. nurse. I do not speak for the V.A. I speak as a public citizen. And I -- you know, we have to -- I thank Larry, I thank the attorneys and the support across the country, because we really need to speak out about this. This is really, really frightening.
Goodman: Is there a next step you will be taking?
Kronen: Right now, we are waiting. We put in a Freedom of Information request to the F.B.I. We are waiting for a response from that.
Goodman: And that request is to find out what?
Kronen: What information they have about Laura, about her computer, about this incident. We did receive the quickest response from the V.A. to our Freedom of Information Act, and they didn't have any extra information that we didn't already have that we got in their response. So right now, we are waiting to see what response we have from the F.B.I. Of course, we still stand. We are asking for a public apology. And we join Senator Bingaman in asking for a policy directive, letting the V.A. and the V.A. officials in the administration across the country, but especially here in Albuquerque, that the First Amendment still exists here in the country and to cease these intimidation.
Goodman: Are you concerned about speaking out today and this first time in this national broadcast, Laura Berg?
Berg: Yes, I am, Amy. And, you know, as I say, subsequent to these memos, I have had a personal discussion with Mary Dowling, and she has said --
Goodman: And again, her position with the V.A.?
Kronen: She is my director at the Albuquerque V.A. And she said, you know, you may express your opinion, but we prefer that you do not say you are a V.A. nurse. And so, I am saying I am a V.A. nurse. And some of my fire in writing this letter about Katrina in Iraq is from my experience as a V.A. nurse. I'm stepping -- I'm stepping, you know, off the edge here, and I do feel that there is some jeopardy to me and my position. But at this point it's more important for me to say this. You know, and if I have to risk my job, the V.A. is going to lose an excellent commission, you know, that does not bring politics into the workplace, you know, and is a very caring person. And this country, you know, will lose many, many dedicated, caring people, you know, if this continues. And, I mean, we are going to lose a lot more than that. We are going to lose a whole lot.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 4, 2006 12:52 AM
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Be patient. I realize that, under the circumstances, November seems to be light years away but if we can just hold off until then, it'll be alright. Once a more moderate, progressive force takes back control of the legislative branch of our government, we'll be able to run these hideous bastards out of town on a rail. I won't be easy. They'll probably try to steal that election too. They are, in fact, making plans at this very moment to do just that - but they will fail. Count on it. They will fail. They might even try to ram the Patriot Act II down are throats. The Partiot Act II: Which curtails our civil liberties even more that the current version. It's off the drawing boards and on the shelf; One of John Ashcroft's Orwellian fantasies. Not to worry. It's all going to blow up in their faces.
We've got to be ready for a tough fight in the next election cycle. These bastards play hardball, no question about it. Do you think, for one minute that they're actually above mowing down their own citizens? Look at the body count in Iraq and think again. We're dealing with a half-witted sociopath, kiddies! Our biggest challenge will be not to stoop to their level. In spite of everything, I still believe in Ghandi, Dr. King and Jesus Christ.
Keep this in mind: All of us who have contributed to AlterNet are, according to the standards of the Bush administration, guilty of sedition. Kinda cool, huh?
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
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» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: justaperson
» I wish I were as optimistic
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» Encrypt your email!
Posted by: jimlup
» RE: ncrypt your email!
Posted by: cephalis
» Not surrepticiously
Posted by: jimlup
» RE: DELUSIONS OF IMPORTANCE AND GRANDEUR
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: bikey
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
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» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: triana1326
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: MsEithne
» RE: don't pray...act instead.
Posted by: blitzmesser
» PRAY THAT YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO ACT
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: marrieah
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Posted by: rsaxto on Mar 4, 2006 2:36 AM
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» RE: word power
Posted by: justAnEgg
» US IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: US IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: YOU GOT IT- Lincoln Fan!
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: riley on Mar 4, 2006 3:50 AM
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» The junior fascist-in-training
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: The junior fascist-in-training
Posted by: ghoster
» RE: The junior fascist-in-training
Posted by: zipper696
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Posted by: AlienSlave on Mar 4, 2006 5:01 AM
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AlienSlave
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Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 4, 2006 6:02 AM
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Posted by: justasking on Mar 4, 2006 6:18 AM
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Anyway, government intimidation is not confined to the federal level but is doled out at every level by those who support the Empire.
PS... we would be wise to avoid the use of the word "force" or "forceful" when advocating for regime change, since one of its meanings infers the use of violence. This comment in no way excuses the intimidation that the VA/FBI engaged in, but use of language that may be interpreted to mean violent overthrow of the government should be avoided unless that is actually what you mean to say.
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» RE: justasking
Posted by: jr2006
» Private Citizen verses Corporate or Government Employee
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Private Citizen verses Corporate or Government Employee
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: Private Citizen verses Corporate or Government Employee
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: mizipi on Mar 4, 2006 6:20 AM
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» RE: This ain't nuthin' new
Posted by: COC
» RE: This ain't nuthin' new
Posted by: ghoster
» RE: This ain't nuthin' new
Posted by: mizipi
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Posted by: bookwoman on Mar 4, 2006 7:46 AM
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Still it would seem that John Adams' ideas are alive and well. And, they say history doesn't keep coming around and kicking us you know where.
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Posted by: bookwoman on Mar 4, 2006 7:57 AM
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The high school teacher might have been allowed to give this kind of lecture in a college or university where the students are a bit older and their philosophies more formed, but it didn't belong in a high school class room, and his lack of judgment, resulting in his dismissal, was warranted.
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» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: karenina
» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: anothername
» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: bubbha
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Posted by: johnmccarthy on Mar 4, 2006 8:12 AM
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I saw your comments on Alternet News re the Nurse charged with sedition. Here is some "seditious" documentation that mainstream media and the thugs dont want read. Too bad,
http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id120.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
Bests,
John
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 4, 2006 8:48 AM
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The bureaucratic hacks that treated this woman in this manner would be well suited to working for the ChiComms (Communist Chinese), maybe censoring the internet or persecuting people for free speech or free religious expression. The can't shoot straight gang that is most law enforcement in this country has been pushing us on a trajectory toward a police state ever since the 'War on Drugs' was launched many years ago. By the way, the drugs won.
The law enforcement cartel always has a standard answer to all problems:
(1) More police forces.
(2) More restrictive laws on citizens.
(3) An expansion of police power.
Just like the Military-Industrial Complex, a similar incestuous Law Enforcement Cabal has raised it's ugly head. It grows like a cancer, at a prodigious rate, and invades every corner of human intercourse and commerce.
If we as a people learn nothing else of the tragedy that happened on 9-11, we should know that if existing law enforcement HAD DONE THEIR JOB the plot would have been foiled. Every agency that had even a tangential relationship to the causes and events surrounding 9-11 failed us at every level. With existing laws-- not new laws.
A car was pulled over in Maryland with a number of 9-11 hijackers days before the attacks by a Maryland State Officer. The driver was going fast enough to be charged with reckless driving, had an expired student visa, etc-- but was not arrested. Had he been taken to jail the entire plot might have been foiled. This instance was not the only one of this kind on record.
May God save us from those who want to save our nation by destroying it's very reason for being.
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» RE: Ham-Fisted Government
Posted by: jrmart66
» "God helps he who helps himself"
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: jrmart66 on Mar 4, 2006 9:24 AM
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WHY DID ONLYTHREEE, THREE, SENATORS VOTE AGAINST IT?
I WANT ANSWERS.
COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER IS WRONG. HITLER HAD BRAINS.
LETS SEE NOW, I HAD BETTER BUY A NEW HARD DRIVE TO SWITCH WHEN THE GESTAPO COMES A KNOCKING!!!
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» RE: Hey, SENATOR BERGMAN !
Posted by: AlienSlave
» I agree, those senators got the message loud and clear........
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: karenina on Mar 4, 2006 9:43 AM
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Why do people listen to "Fox News" and believe that it is "fair and balanced?" The fact that Rupert Murdoch currently lives in a house outside of the capital of Communist China, and is married to his second wife, who is Chinese, will never be reported. Global business knows no nationality, and no patiotism. I have previously quoted Mussolini, who said that corporatism is fascism. Using his definition, our problem is global corporatism, which can also be defined as fascism. The majority of Americans are going to face some terrible times, and we must resist now, each in our own way, and together. The next time you talk to a person in a call center in India, engage them in conversation about themselves, and tell them what you think of globalization and the exploitaion of workers everywhere. You night find, as I have, that they are aware of the problem as much as we are.
The Bush administration has no interest in democracy, freedom, or patriotism. Each of us will be part of the problem, or a pebble in a pond that spreads our hopes of liberty to the entire world.
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» Important comments
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Mar 4, 2006 12:28 PM
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There still is.
Everyone who has ever had a contrary word about their rulership has bee put on a watch list. We know it's a natural outgrowth when you stand up for things that need to be done and the system isn't listening. You get on a list for 'Living The Bill of Rights'. For seeing wrongs you try to right,you get spied
upon,shadowed,bugged,raided and sometimes killed,but you never give up. Soon as you do....they win.
For far too long the representative govt has failed the People. It's time for the People to lead.They have no power unless we give it to them. Every time we blindly go along with whatever crap they are spewing...we loose. Every time we stand up...they loose.
We have to find new people to aide us in our quest for a better America and a more Peaceful World. They are here on Alternet. They are in you community. We must seek them out and ask for them to help. They will. For ours is the quest to restore our Freedom and Liberty. The very thing they have taken from us with their phoney 'terrorist' attacks,corrupt appointments to the High Court,their outright lies to us and the World for invading other Nations and stealing their resources. The majority of us are FED UP. That's good. We
have to be. It generates action.We must take steps to insure it's the right action and not just repeating the same dance under a different banner. That's already the history of this Nation. We must design for ourselves a more inspired destiny.
One where voilence is not the a method of control. Where
imtimadation is not the means of shaping public opinion.
Where the media is not the tool of the Tyrants or the handmaiden of oppression. Where healthcare isn't waved about like a carrot on a stick,never intending to become reality,just a handy dangle to keep the people off balance and confused. Where the laws for emmissions are constantly geared downward so businesses make profits while the rest of us get sick.Where no one person holds the reigns of war powers and can unleash them at whim. Where spending for military action takes the money away from the needs of the People.
Everyone needs to follow the example of this brave nurse
and call out the these enemies of the Constitution. Giving them just what they deserve....A sound Tarring and Feathering backed up with a prison cell safely out of our and the World's hair.
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» It's time for the People to lead
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Saintperle on Mar 4, 2006 12:32 PM
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Within the hour I was on the "Repeat what you said" roller coaster to a court martial for sedition. They kept saying "20 years" and I kept saying "No -- I only have a month to go." And they kept saying "10 years if you're lucky."
A lot of people are surprised how incredibly stupid, stiff-necked, and vindictive government people can be when they don't understand. They're learning.
There's an old saying "F--- them if they don't get the joke." After that experience with military law, I have always realized the real saying should be: "Wrong. They'll F--- YOU If they don't get the joke."
The corollary to that is: "In every group, there's one person who doesn't get the joke. That person runs for office."
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Posted by: kooz on Mar 4, 2006 7:36 PM
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» RE: damn liberals
Posted by: waves999
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Posted by: MEL810 on Mar 4, 2006 8:03 PM
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1. The Patriot Act was pushed through with almost no debate and in record time. It is a huge bill. Any government law is huge because of all the riders and legalese and bureaucratese attendant to the bill. These bills are thought up and researched and complied months and even years before they are introduced, much less passed. Have any people looked the timing of the massive patriot act? Congress can't compile and pass a law for dog catchers in that time. Is there anyone here that believes that the patriot act was conceived and written AFTER 9-11? Then I have a bridge in NY that I want to sell you and some swamp land, too! Contact me, I need the moola!
2. I lived in DC for years and know the Pentagon area well. I saw the Pentagon a few short months after 9-11. I also saw the Potomac River just after the crash of the Air Florida flight years before. Bodies and debris airplane parts were everywhere including nearby roadways and shrubbery after Air Florida skimmed the Potomac River Bridge.
In the 9-11 crash, we saw none of that. From what I saw of the re-building of the Pentagon after 9-11, that rebuilding was TOO QUICK and of TOO SMALL of an area to have resulted from a 747 crash. If it was a commercial jet liner, then I am the Queen of France and I, the Queen of France, have the property mentioned above that needs selling to help this impoverished monarch.
3. What happened to all the debris and wreckage of all sites. What about Pennsylvania?
Because I spoke out in this manner, I have been called a traitor by relatives and internet contacts.Some idiots still circulate Bushita emails.
But now more are beginning to question some things and I hope America wakes up before it is too damn late to save us sheeple.
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Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 4, 2006 8:41 PM
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» RE: I'D LIKE TO SEE A COPY OF THE LETTER
Posted by: popsicle67
» RE: Popsicle67- GET REAL!
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: I'D LIKE TO SEE A COPY OF THE LETTER
Posted by: MEL810
» RE: MEL810 IS RATIONAL
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: supporting Laura
Posted by: RetlaTen
» RE: supporting Laura WHO WROTE "ACT FORCEFULLY"
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: popsicle67 on Mar 5, 2006 12:07 AM
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to assert every one of our rights to the fullest every minute of every day and slap down those who will seek to impede us.
Only this way will we endure this administration. If we fail in our vigilance we will be slaves.
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» Your Rhetoric Is Inflammatory
Posted by: drricklippin
» Not necessarily
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Congratulations Lincoln fan
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Congratulations Lincoln fan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 5, 2006 5:37 AM
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» RE: YOU ARE INCORRECT AND NAIVE POPSICLE67
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE:US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: TRY BLOGGING IN A POLICE- STATE?
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» RE: US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 5, 2006 2:42 PM
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Let's consider our young men and women who come back form this war wil lbe facing- they may have a significant body load of depleted uranium, for starters. They have been forced to act as an occupation police force when they were trained as a military strike force; they will be coming back with immense psychological scars due to this. The number of wounded and permanently disabled has been entirely underreported in the general media. They have been used as cannon fodder for the Imperial schemes of Bush & Co., and they have been lied to repeatedly by our media and our government. The sick and insane torture schemes they have been forced to implememt were dreamed up by Rumsfeld and friends, and this kind of torture scars them as well as the Iraqi victims. I'm quite familiar with the history of Vietnam, and this seems as bad or worse then what happened there. We should all do our best to help them out as they come home.
It is true that certain government elements are watching us - phones, email, even listening devices placed in homes. I hope they watch carefully: they might learn how to behave in a democratic society. They will also threaten us, and attempt to discredit and smear us by any means available (they particularly seem to enjoy sexual approaches). They only expose themselves for the rotten sick creeps that they are.
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» RE: Once again, our veterans are being screwed over
Posted by: NoPCZone
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Posted by: zipper696 on Mar 6, 2006 8:22 AM
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Considering most of these men must be at least in their early 80's it says much about what it must be doing to the minds and psyches of the young soldiers actually out there. I fear we are breeding a generation of Iraqui vets that make the "Rambo crazed Vietnam vet" look like choirboys.
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Posted by: Nigelthebrit on Mar 7, 2006 2:46 AM
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Patriotism is not enough...
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Posted by: bogtrotters on Mar 9, 2006 4:55 PM
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Posted by: vajrasattva1 on Mar 9, 2006 8:06 PM
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Of course, it's intimidation. But it's also a lesson. Choose your "free speech" with care. Engage brain before putting mouth in gear.
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Posted by: Tom Degan on Mar 4, 2006 12:52 AM
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Be patient. I realize that, under the circumstances, November seems to be light years away but if we can just hold off until then, it'll be alright. Once a more moderate, progressive force takes back control of the legislative branch of our government, we'll be able to run these hideous bastards out of town on a rail. I won't be easy. They'll probably try to steal that election too. They are, in fact, making plans at this very moment to do just that - but they will fail. Count on it. They will fail. They might even try to ram the Patriot Act II down are throats. The Partiot Act II: Which curtails our civil liberties even more that the current version. It's off the drawing boards and on the shelf; One of John Ashcroft's Orwellian fantasies. Not to worry. It's all going to blow up in their faces.
We've got to be ready for a tough fight in the next election cycle. These bastards play hardball, no question about it. Do you think, for one minute that they're actually above mowing down their own citizens? Look at the body count in Iraq and think again. We're dealing with a half-witted sociopath, kiddies! Our biggest challenge will be not to stoop to their level. In spite of everything, I still believe in Ghandi, Dr. King and Jesus Christ.
Keep this in mind: All of us who have contributed to AlterNet are, according to the standards of the Bush administration, guilty of sedition. Kinda cool, huh?
Pray for peace.
Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net
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» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: justaperson
» I wish I were as optimistic
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» Encrypt your email!
Posted by: jimlup
» RE: ncrypt your email!
Posted by: cephalis
» Not surrepticiously
Posted by: jimlup
» RE: DELUSIONS OF IMPORTANCE AND GRANDEUR
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: bikey
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
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» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: triana1326
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: MsEithne
» RE: don't pray...act instead.
Posted by: blitzmesser
» PRAY THAT YOU HAVE THE COURAGE TO ACT
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Hey everybody on AlterNet: YOU're BUSTED!!!
Posted by: marrieah
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Posted by: rsaxto on Mar 4, 2006 2:36 AM
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» RE: word power
Posted by: justAnEgg
» US IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: US IS NOT A DICTATORSHIP
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: YOU GOT IT- Lincoln Fan!
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: riley on Mar 4, 2006 3:50 AM
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» The junior fascist-in-training
Posted by: orwellwasn'tdreaming
» RE: The junior fascist-in-training
Posted by: ghoster
» RE: The junior fascist-in-training
Posted by: zipper696
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Posted by: AlienSlave on Mar 4, 2006 5:01 AM
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AlienSlave
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Posted by: Sojourner on Mar 4, 2006 6:02 AM
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Posted by: justasking on Mar 4, 2006 6:18 AM
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Anyway, government intimidation is not confined to the federal level but is doled out at every level by those who support the Empire.
PS... we would be wise to avoid the use of the word "force" or "forceful" when advocating for regime change, since one of its meanings infers the use of violence. This comment in no way excuses the intimidation that the VA/FBI engaged in, but use of language that may be interpreted to mean violent overthrow of the government should be avoided unless that is actually what you mean to say.
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» RE: justasking
Posted by: jr2006
» Private Citizen verses Corporate or Government Employee
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Private Citizen verses Corporate or Government Employee
Posted by: zipper696
» RE: Private Citizen verses Corporate or Government Employee
Posted by: drricklippin
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Posted by: mizipi on Mar 4, 2006 6:20 AM
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» RE: This ain't nuthin' new
Posted by: COC
» RE: This ain't nuthin' new
Posted by: ghoster
» RE: This ain't nuthin' new
Posted by: mizipi
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Posted by: bookwoman on Mar 4, 2006 7:46 AM
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Still it would seem that John Adams' ideas are alive and well. And, they say history doesn't keep coming around and kicking us you know where.
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Posted by: bookwoman on Mar 4, 2006 7:57 AM
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The high school teacher might have been allowed to give this kind of lecture in a college or university where the students are a bit older and their philosophies more formed, but it didn't belong in a high school class room, and his lack of judgment, resulting in his dismissal, was warranted.
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» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: karenina
» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: gonzoskismet
» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: anothername
» RE: Sorry, I don't agree with you.
Posted by: bubbha
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Posted by: johnmccarthy on Mar 4, 2006 8:12 AM
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I saw your comments on Alternet News re the Nurse charged with sedition. Here is some "seditious" documentation that mainstream media and the thugs dont want read. Too bad,
http://johnmccarthy90066.tripod.com/id120.html
http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/hall/Mac.html
Bests,
John
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Posted by: NoPCZone on Mar 4, 2006 8:48 AM
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The bureaucratic hacks that treated this woman in this manner would be well suited to working for the ChiComms (Communist Chinese), maybe censoring the internet or persecuting people for free speech or free religious expression. The can't shoot straight gang that is most law enforcement in this country has been pushing us on a trajectory toward a police state ever since the 'War on Drugs' was launched many years ago. By the way, the drugs won.
The law enforcement cartel always has a standard answer to all problems:
(1) More police forces.
(2) More restrictive laws on citizens.
(3) An expansion of police power.
Just like the Military-Industrial Complex, a similar incestuous Law Enforcement Cabal has raised it's ugly head. It grows like a cancer, at a prodigious rate, and invades every corner of human intercourse and commerce.
If we as a people learn nothing else of the tragedy that happened on 9-11, we should know that if existing law enforcement HAD DONE THEIR JOB the plot would have been foiled. Every agency that had even a tangential relationship to the causes and events surrounding 9-11 failed us at every level. With existing laws-- not new laws.
A car was pulled over in Maryland with a number of 9-11 hijackers days before the attacks by a Maryland State Officer. The driver was going fast enough to be charged with reckless driving, had an expired student visa, etc-- but was not arrested. Had he been taken to jail the entire plot might have been foiled. This instance was not the only one of this kind on record.
May God save us from those who want to save our nation by destroying it's very reason for being.
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» RE: Ham-Fisted Government
Posted by: jrmart66
» "God helps he who helps himself"
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: jrmart66 on Mar 4, 2006 9:24 AM
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WHY DID ONLYTHREEE, THREE, SENATORS VOTE AGAINST IT?
I WANT ANSWERS.
COMPARING BUSH TO HITLER IS WRONG. HITLER HAD BRAINS.
LETS SEE NOW, I HAD BETTER BUY A NEW HARD DRIVE TO SWITCH WHEN THE GESTAPO COMES A KNOCKING!!!
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» RE: Hey, SENATOR BERGMAN !
Posted by: AlienSlave
» I agree, those senators got the message loud and clear........
Posted by: Prophit
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Posted by: karenina on Mar 4, 2006 9:43 AM
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Why do people listen to "Fox News" and believe that it is "fair and balanced?" The fact that Rupert Murdoch currently lives in a house outside of the capital of Communist China, and is married to his second wife, who is Chinese, will never be reported. Global business knows no nationality, and no patiotism. I have previously quoted Mussolini, who said that corporatism is fascism. Using his definition, our problem is global corporatism, which can also be defined as fascism. The majority of Americans are going to face some terrible times, and we must resist now, each in our own way, and together. The next time you talk to a person in a call center in India, engage them in conversation about themselves, and tell them what you think of globalization and the exploitaion of workers everywhere. You night find, as I have, that they are aware of the problem as much as we are.
The Bush administration has no interest in democracy, freedom, or patriotism. Each of us will be part of the problem, or a pebble in a pond that spreads our hopes of liberty to the entire world.
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» Important comments
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: jeffrey7 on Mar 4, 2006 12:28 PM
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There still is.
Everyone who has ever had a contrary word about their rulership has bee put on a watch list. We know it's a natural outgrowth when you stand up for things that need to be done and the system isn't listening. You get on a list for 'Living The Bill of Rights'. For seeing wrongs you try to right,you get spied
upon,shadowed,bugged,raided and sometimes killed,but you never give up. Soon as you do....they win.
For far too long the representative govt has failed the People. It's time for the People to lead.They have no power unless we give it to them. Every time we blindly go along with whatever crap they are spewing...we loose. Every time we stand up...they loose.
We have to find new people to aide us in our quest for a better America and a more Peaceful World. They are here on Alternet. They are in you community. We must seek them out and ask for them to help. They will. For ours is the quest to restore our Freedom and Liberty. The very thing they have taken from us with their phoney 'terrorist' attacks,corrupt appointments to the High Court,their outright lies to us and the World for invading other Nations and stealing their resources. The majority of us are FED UP. That's good. We
have to be. It generates action.We must take steps to insure it's the right action and not just repeating the same dance under a different banner. That's already the history of this Nation. We must design for ourselves a more inspired destiny.
One where voilence is not the a method of control. Where
imtimadation is not the means of shaping public opinion.
Where the media is not the tool of the Tyrants or the handmaiden of oppression. Where healthcare isn't waved about like a carrot on a stick,never intending to become reality,just a handy dangle to keep the people off balance and confused. Where the laws for emmissions are constantly geared downward so businesses make profits while the rest of us get sick.Where no one person holds the reigns of war powers and can unleash them at whim. Where spending for military action takes the money away from the needs of the People.
Everyone needs to follow the example of this brave nurse
and call out the these enemies of the Constitution. Giving them just what they deserve....A sound Tarring and Feathering backed up with a prison cell safely out of our and the World's hair.
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» It's time for the People to lead
Posted by: Lincoln fan
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Posted by: Saintperle on Mar 4, 2006 12:32 PM
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Within the hour I was on the "Repeat what you said" roller coaster to a court martial for sedition. They kept saying "20 years" and I kept saying "No -- I only have a month to go." And they kept saying "10 years if you're lucky."
A lot of people are surprised how incredibly stupid, stiff-necked, and vindictive government people can be when they don't understand. They're learning.
There's an old saying "F--- them if they don't get the joke." After that experience with military law, I have always realized the real saying should be: "Wrong. They'll F--- YOU If they don't get the joke."
The corollary to that is: "In every group, there's one person who doesn't get the joke. That person runs for office."
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Posted by: kooz on Mar 4, 2006 7:36 PM
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» RE: damn liberals
Posted by: waves999
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Posted by: MEL810 on Mar 4, 2006 8:03 PM
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1. The Patriot Act was pushed through with almost no debate and in record time. It is a huge bill. Any government law is huge because of all the riders and legalese and bureaucratese attendant to the bill. These bills are thought up and researched and complied months and even years before they are introduced, much less passed. Have any people looked the timing of the massive patriot act? Congress can't compile and pass a law for dog catchers in that time. Is there anyone here that believes that the patriot act was conceived and written AFTER 9-11? Then I have a bridge in NY that I want to sell you and some swamp land, too! Contact me, I need the moola!
2. I lived in DC for years and know the Pentagon area well. I saw the Pentagon a few short months after 9-11. I also saw the Potomac River just after the crash of the Air Florida flight years before. Bodies and debris airplane parts were everywhere including nearby roadways and shrubbery after Air Florida skimmed the Potomac River Bridge.
In the 9-11 crash, we saw none of that. From what I saw of the re-building of the Pentagon after 9-11, that rebuilding was TOO QUICK and of TOO SMALL of an area to have resulted from a 747 crash. If it was a commercial jet liner, then I am the Queen of France and I, the Queen of France, have the property mentioned above that needs selling to help this impoverished monarch.
3. What happened to all the debris and wreckage of all sites. What about Pennsylvania?
Because I spoke out in this manner, I have been called a traitor by relatives and internet contacts.Some idiots still circulate Bushita emails.
But now more are beginning to question some things and I hope America wakes up before it is too damn late to save us sheeple.
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Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 4, 2006 8:41 PM
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» RE: I'D LIKE TO SEE A COPY OF THE LETTER
Posted by: popsicle67
» RE: Popsicle67- GET REAL!
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: I'D LIKE TO SEE A COPY OF THE LETTER
Posted by: MEL810
» RE: MEL810 IS RATIONAL
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: supporting Laura
Posted by: RetlaTen
» RE: supporting Laura WHO WROTE "ACT FORCEFULLY"
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: popsicle67 on Mar 5, 2006 12:07 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to assert every one of our rights to the fullest every minute of every day and slap down those who will seek to impede us.
Only this way will we endure this administration. If we fail in our vigilance we will be slaves.
[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]
» Your Rhetoric Is Inflammatory
Posted by: drricklippin
» Not necessarily
Posted by: Lincoln fan
» RE: Congratulations Lincoln fan
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: Congratulations Lincoln fan
Posted by: Lincoln fan
Comments are closed-
Posted by: drricklippin on Mar 5, 2006 5:37 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: YOU ARE INCORRECT AND NAIVE POPSICLE67
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE:US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: Pseudo Morals
» RE: TRY BLOGGING IN A POLICE- STATE?
Posted by: drricklippin
» RE: US IS STILL A NATION OF LAWS
Posted by: drricklippin
Comments are closed-
Posted by: thoughtcriminal on Mar 5, 2006 2:42 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's consider our young men and women who come back form this war wil lbe facing- they may have a significant body load of depleted uranium, for starters. They have been forced to act as an occupation police force when they were trained as a military strike force; they will be coming back with immense psychological scars due to this. The number of wounded and permanently disabled has been entirely underreported in the general media. They have been used as cannon fodder for the Imperial schemes of Bush & Co., and they have been lied to repeatedly by our media and our government. The sick and insane torture schemes they have been forced to implememt were dreamed up by Rumsfeld and friends, and this kind of torture scars them as well as the Iraqi victims. I'm quite familiar with the history of Vietnam, and this seems as bad or worse then what happened there. We should all do our best to help them out as they come home.
It is true that certain government elements are watching us - phones, email, even listening devices placed in homes. I hope they watch carefully: they might learn how to behave in a democratic society. They will also threaten us, and attempt to discredit and smear us by any means available (they particularly seem to enjoy sexual approaches). They only expose themselves for the rotten sick creeps that they are.
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» RE: Once again, our veterans are being screwed over
Posted by: NoPCZone
Comments are closed-
Posted by: zipper696 on Mar 6, 2006 8:22 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Considering most of these men must be at least in their early 80's it says much about what it must be doing to the minds and psyches of the young soldiers actually out there. I fear we are breeding a generation of Iraqui vets that make the "Rambo crazed Vietnam vet" look like choirboys.
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Posted by: Nigelthebrit on Mar 7, 2006 2:46 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Patriotism is not enough...
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Posted by: bogtrotters on Mar 9, 2006 4:55 PM
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Posted by: vajrasattva1 on Mar 9, 2006 8:06 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course, it's intimidation. But it's also a lesson. Choose your "free speech" with care. Engage brain before putting mouth in gear.
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