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Rights and Liberties

Spy vs. Spy

By Bill Piper, AlterNet. Posted May 18, 2005.


Proposed legislation would compel people to spy on their family members and neighbors, forcing all Americans to become foot soldiers in the war on drugs.
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Neighbors spying on neighbors? Mothers forced to turn in their sons or daughters? These are images straight out of George Orwell's 1984, or a remote totalitarian state. We don't associate them with the land of the free and the home of the brave, but that doesn't mean they couldn't happen here. A senior congressman, James Sensenbrenner (R-Wis.), is working quietly but efficiently to turn the entire United States population into informants--by force.

Sensenbrenner, the U.S. House Judiciary Committee Chairman, has introduced legislation that would essentially draft every American into the war on drugs. H.R. 1528, cynically named "Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act," would compel people to spy on their family members and neighbors, and even go undercover and wear a wire if needed. If a person resisted, he or she would face mandatory incarceration. 

Here's how the "spy" section of the legislation works: If you "witness" certain drug offenses taking place or "learn" about them, you must report the offenses to law enforcement within 24 hours and provide "full assistance in the investigation, apprehension and prosecution" of the people involved. Failure to do so would be a crime punishable by a mandatory minimum two-year prison sentence, and a maximum sentence of 10 years.

Here are some examples of offenses you would have to report to police within 24 hours:

  • You find out that your brother, who has children, recently bought a small amount of marijuana to share with his wife;
  • You discover that your son gave his college roommate a marijuana joint;
  • You learn that your daughter asked her boyfriend to find her some drugs, even though they're both in treatment.


In each of these cases you would have to report the relative to the police within 24 hours. Taking time to talk to your relative about treatment instead of calling the police immediately could land you in jail.

In addition to turning family member against family member, the legislation could also put many Americans in danger by forcing them to go undercover to gain evidence against strangers.

Even if the language that forces every American to become a de facto law enforcement agent is taken out, the bill would still impose draconian sentences on college students, mothers, people in drug treatment and others with substance abuse problems. If enacted, this bill will destroy lives, break up families, and waste millions of taxpayer dollars. 

Despite growing opposition to mandatory minimum sentences from civil rights groups to U.S. Supreme Court Justices, the bill eliminates federal judges' ability to give sentences below the minimum recommended by federal sentencing guidelines. This creates a mandatory minimum sentence for all federal offenses, drug-related or not. 

H.R. 1528 also establishes new draconian penalties for a variety of non-violent drug offenses, including:

  • Five years for anyone who passes a marijuana joint at a party to someone who, at some point in his or her life, has been in drug treatment;
  • Ten years for mothers with substance abuse problems who commit certain drug offenses at home (even if their children are not at home at the time);
  • Five years for any person with substance abuse problems who begs a friend in drug treatment to find them some drugs.


These sentences would put non-violent drug offenders behind bars for as long as rapists, and they include none of the drug treatment touted in the bill's name.

At a time when everyone from the conservative American Enterprise Institute to the liberal Sentencing Project is slamming the war on drugs as an abject failure, Sensenbrenner is trying to escalate it, and to force all Americans to become its foot soldiers. Instead of enacting new mandatory minimums, federal policymakers should look toward the states. A growing number have reformed their drug sentencing laws, including Arizona, California, Kansas, Louisiana, Maryland, New Mexico, New York and Texas, and they have proved it is possible to both save money and improve public safety.

Simply put, there is no way H.R. 1528 can be fixed. The only policy proposal in recent years that comes close to being as totalitarian as this bill is Operations TIPS, the Ashcroft initiative that would have encouraged -- but not required -- citizens to spy on one another. Congress rightfully rejected that initiative and they should do the same with H.R. 1528. Big Brother has no business here in America.

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Bill Piper is director of national affairs for the Drug Policy Alliance.

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Can't be done
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Posted by: Iamnotafruittree on May 19, 2005 10:06 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How can the US put everyone in prison? Everyone is on drugs. All you have to do is look in someones eyes to see it. They are all over the TV, government, police force, firefighters, military, doctors, nurses, lawyers, judges, and children. When you look at these peoples eyes they are fixed, dilated, bright, shiny and stary. These drug addicts repeat what they hear, lie, cheat and steal. The more they make you think they are not addicts, the more you should be suspect they are lying. Every single addict acts EXCATLY the same way. It really isn't all that hard when you pay attention. Or we had better start making more prisons to fit all these people!

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Dream On, Fool!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: gonzoskismet on May 19, 2005 2:01 PM   
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If you think for one freaking minute that any SELF-Respecting American would turn anybody in for smoking a joint Mr. No-Sensenbrenner, then you obviously haven't got a clue of how the American people feel about the 'killer weed.' Any American citizen with ANY sense saw past the bullshit scare tactics the all powerful government have been droning on about the 'killer weed' years ago. Back in the 70's they told us that smoking weed would grow breasts(tits, that is, son, tits) on men. NOT! Then, they said it would lower male sperm counts. Me and the wife had two kids right of the bat. So, NOT,to that one.
And, God only know how many more insane, dumbfuck rumors have spread on the Gentle Weed. What they really fear is that it will make America a more gentle, tolerant nation and we can't have that, can we? Hell, then we might actually get to pondering the murder our government commits in other countries in the name of freedom and democracy. We might start questioning the doublespeak of our religious leaders when they quote the Bible. 'Thou shalt not kill' has no except clauses attached.
And, as for being a criminal in this country, well, hell. that's a given! Go against the Party Line of whoever sits in the White House? Criminal! Terrorist! Commie Pinko Bastard!
Stand up for your rights to be free? Subversive! Trouble maker!
Man, in the eyes of the American government if you stand up for your rights under the American Constitution, we're all
criminals in their eyes! So. screw it! You're bloody doomed any way you go so ya might as well go out high, happy and
flipping the bastards off because you can't depend on that Great American Justice System to stand up to protect you!
Not unless you can pay for it! And there ain't but one way to change it. Off your ass, on your feet and into the street cause that's the only thing that gets through to the power drunk bastards: the power of Civil Disobedience!

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» RE: Dream On, Fool! Posted by: anihil8
» RE: Dream On, Fool! Posted by: diamondvajra
» RE: Dream On, Fool! Posted by: bonesrmade
» Amen Posted by: okonkwo
» RE: Dream On, Fool! Posted by: 25onJune25
Idiots!!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: fedupamerican on May 20, 2005 3:54 AM   
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Man, I cannot believe what I just read in this article!! What in hell is this country coming to that they think I would want to spy on my kids, neighbors, or friends for "drugs." This has to be the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard. Besides, I'm too damn busy trying to make a living just to keep a roof over my head, food in my tummy, take care of my medical problems WITHOUT INSURANCE ( REALLY IMPORTANT issue), and GAS in my car to get to work to pay for all of this!

"Senseless" needs to wake up and get fucking real. The war on drugs is as ridiculous as his HR is. There are other problems in this country which need immediate attention... how about working on those so people in this country can have a better chance of functioning without drugs. There are basic underlying causes to drug use which have nothing to do with being a criminal. USERS ARE NOT CRIMINALS!

Another thing, I realize this HR is about "illegal" drugs, but if you want to talk about DRUG USE in this country-- check the number of ads by the REAL drug lords--the pharmaceutical corps.--running on TV. Hell, the way they are advertising sleep aids, people in this country evidently cannot sleep anymore. Not to mention the ADD meds and Depression meds they tout day after day. Maybe all of THAT need reflects best at where people are in their mental states these days--any relation to the people in Washington and what's gone on in the past several years????? hmm....

Think I'll go have my glass of merlot before I take my amitriptylin, loritab, aleve, xanax, and flonase. Have a good nite all.

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» RE: Idiots!! Posted by: wynnsol
Bur write to the fool and tell him how you feel
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bulbman on May 20, 2005 4:03 AM   
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We can't allow our silence to fool these jerks that now fill the halls of Congress that the asinine facistic legislation they keep cooking up is just fine with us. Bombard this creep with emails, phone calls, letters!

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diamondvajra
[Report this comment]
Posted by: diamondvajra on May 20, 2005 6:25 AM   
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CANADA ANYONE?

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» RE: diamondvajra Posted by: supreme commander
» RE: diamondvajra Posted by: Hank1949
» RE: diamondvajra Posted by: Silent_Snake86
» RE: diamondvajra Posted by: EnfentTerrible
New treatments which work -- not incarceration
[Report this comment]
Posted by: janvdb on May 20, 2005 7:19 AM   
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Sensenbrenner has absolutely NO IDEA how to reduce drug use.

The voters of Wisconsin need to stand up and insist that the state provide TREATMENT not incarceration for substance abusers.

The incarceration approach has been shown repeatedly to fail fail fail. It renders its victims unemployable, stigmatized and altered psychologically for the worse by the brutalizing experience of prison life; recidivism is in the 60% to 80% range -- even for these virtually innocent people Sensenbrenner would imprison.

He's just creating a huge population of ex-cons here, making criminals out of people who would probably respond very well to the new treatment methods readily available.

There are new treatment approaches, such as the naturopathic medical approach developed in Minneappolis by Janet Mathews-Larson which, with a 45-day in-patient program with minimal cost ($11,000 v $25,000 to $60,000 per year for imprisonment), has success rate of 80% compared to the usual 15% to 20% of standard "talk treatment" and AA. Four to five years later, the difference between traditional treatment and the new medical approach is even bigger, as nearly 90% restart alcohol or substance abuse after "treatment" as we now know it while those who continue to take their vitamins and aminos under Larson's care are still 80% sober.

These treatments based on science which use natural supplements and amino acid therapy have shown consistent good results over the past 20 years. Janet Mathews-Larson is now franchising her methods and her centers are cropping up all over the country -- but they largely serve an affluent clientele. The poor are still out in the cold and most of them CANNOT stop using alcohol and drugs due to genetic weaknesses or metabolic/ brain damage from past drug use; to stop, they require medical intervention.

Our government needs to put our money into providing these basic MEDICAL services ON DEMAND. Combining the Mathews-Larson treatment protocols with California-style drug courts could finally allow us to start to "win the war on drugs."

continued below . . .

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continuing "New treatments which work -- NOT incarceration"
[Report this comment]
Posted by: janvdb on May 20, 2005 7:19 AM   
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If, at the same time, we stopped all interdiction efforts and stopped pouring billions into governments in Latin America which cynically perpetuate their continual, dollar-fed civil wars so they can live off this flow of US cash, the risk of providing these drugs would fall and the supply would increase.

Therefore, the price of illegal drugs would collapse. The narco-empires would shrivel to a fraction of their current size and power.

We could regain stability, reliability and prosperity to our south if we let those countries legalize and tax their "drug trade" (read "unpatented natural pharmaceutical business" at the same time that we put a fraction of the money we now spend on incarceration into science-based natural supplement and amino acid therapy provided FREE ON DEMAND and ON COMMAND from drug courts.

Reduce demand with treatment that works; at the same time increase supply of cocaine, pot, and heroin -- the price would fall sharply. The huge seductive profits of the "narco traffic" would disappear. The big money, violence and turf battles of the drug trade would vanish if it were legalized abroad and punishment in the US for ALL drug-related crime were limited to 3 months in jail (to dry out) followed by 45 days of Mathews-Larson treatment.

The Colombian civil war could finally end.

Young urban American males would finally have to get a real job to pay their bills.

The high-risk, high-return, "glamourous" seductive, high-rolling world of "the drug trade" would implode and ordinary business conditions would prevail as profit margins shrank.

Our approach to drug use is insane. It doesn't work. It makes the problem WORSE by making it extremely profitable, exciting and interesting to deal drugs. We are creating and financing an endless civil war in Colombia and fueling the money-soaked narco-elite which is infiltrating the police and government in Mexico.

Sensenbrenner is a duped dope and he's crazier than most drug users I know. His approach is just more of the failed, money-sucking, problem-exacerbating nonsense we have in place now.

Jan VanDenBerg

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its gets worse before it gets better
[Report this comment]
Posted by: cobrajet on May 20, 2005 7:28 AM   
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Calm down folks.. This is the admin attempt to get citizens to act as police for them, and most people will never do that. THey just want to make it a crime for people to say " I did not want to get involved... I want to stay out of it " SO now, there would be a crime to NOT get involved. BUt this is how prohibition ends, it gets much worse before it finally ends. IT happened with alcohol prohibition, and it is happening here. The govt knows it is losing the drug war, so it is putting in any last ditch effort to enforce their BS, before they lose control over the whole thing.. drug prohibition will be made irrelevant by the State and local law witin the next 20 years, if people get involved, and support these groups like NORML, and Drug alliance. Only those groups can get this issue some visibility, and get the people questioning these drug laws and sentences... BUt it will get worse, before it finally ends... keep the faith ! Dont stop fighting.

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But wait, there's still more...
[Report this comment]
Posted by: bgentry on May 20, 2005 9:45 AM   
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Another feature of this absurd law would make it a prison offense to conduct needle exchanges, a current best practice for street harm reduction -- reducing exposure to HIV and Hep C viruses.

You can take action at this link (eliminate any blank spaces when you paste it into your browser):

http:// en.groundspring.org/EmailNow/pub.php? module=URLTracker& cmd=track&j=30849641&u=281562

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What's "Senseless" Smokin' in Congress?!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: monkeywrench on May 20, 2005 9:53 AM   
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Somebody needs to go undercover and find out if Sensenbrenner is on drugs – judging by the idiocy of his bill, he must be.

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REAL Spies Goosestep. . .
[Report this comment]
Posted by: monkeywrench on May 20, 2005 9:56 AM   
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Will my new law-enforcement position come with a paycheck, a black-and-white arm band with a squiggly logo, and a brownshirt?

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missing the point
[Report this comment]
Posted by: karyse on May 20, 2005 10:27 AM   
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Ah, but you're all missing the point. None of the drug legislation is about anything other than filling up prisons in order to gain a slave labor force for the privatized prisons being built for just that purpose. They don't want these prisons filled with the real bad guys because the real bad guys cost too much money to incarcerate. They prefer the innocent, or the "good" who have commited a "crime" in name only. They make much better prisoner/workers since they are unlikely to kill anyone while they serve their time as slave labor.

Furthermore, the reason they spent so much money on marijuana elimination to begin with, is they WANT a violent underclass. They need scary drug users to justify the increase in the members of the police state. How could they do that when the only thing America has to worry about with a pothead is that they might eat too much junk food or spread "love" propaganda?

No one wakes up in a ghetto thinking, "Gee I want to be a crackhead." They wake up thinking that they want to get stoned. When pot was widely available that was the drug of choice. Naturally they had to get rid of it; no one would fear a ghetto full of potheads. Hell, we might even start going there to party.

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» RE: missing the point Posted by: paulaH
» You are TOTALLY correct! Posted by: getagripcanada
Drugs; A make work program for......
[Report this comment]
Posted by: pjrsullivan on May 20, 2005 11:38 AM   
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A human is by nature a predator and as such we can examine the citizen and his or her role in this Criminal Autocracy that is at the moment in the hands of the International members of the Merchant Murder Class. We are the prey for the likes of Sennsenbrenner and his cannibal cohorts in the political and corporate world.

Our duty is to not be eaten by them. Easier sometimes said than done, and the overbearing weight of prison camps make America the leader in predation against its domestic population. Think for a moment of JFK, and if they took him out, how many mice have they eaten?

Our so called political leadership runs from the silly and stupid, to the preposterous and absurd, and as Voltaire said, "if they can get you to believe absurdities, they can get you to commit atrocities."

The atrocities are conceived in the Banks of London and carried out by the mind degraded untermench of this old Crown Colony.

The Sheenies are in the drivers seat throughout it all. The Sheenies are the, "Degraders and Defilers," and throughout history they have worked their magic in human predation.

The strategy is, "Diminish what they are, so that you make take what they have." This gives an idea of the strategy of the neo-con Sheenies and what their known strategy is throughout history, that is, "Huckerstering on other peoples blood."

The war on drugs is one of the Sheenies many tricks to keep the population, "Cold, Hungry, homeless and dirty, and without income."

The plant that kept many from starvation in Europe is the hemp plant, its seeds were used to make gruel. Maybe not the tastiest, meal, yet it is nourishing. Today the hemp plant has the ability to spread income to the ordinary classes, and hence it is the devil weed to our soon to be overthrown criminal classes, along with their Sheeny henchmen.

Actually, believe it or not, they have been already overthrown, see my website for details.

As we approach the end of the gulag economy and the term of office of our nuclear war criminal class, we ask the question what is the war on drugs really? Basically, it is a make work program for stupid asswholes.

http://politicsofet.com

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Keep the Faith, baby!
[Report this comment]
Posted by: greenMary on May 20, 2005 12:19 PM   
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Just when I feel the pendulum has swung as far as it can -something else appears on the horizon. I am constantly amazed at how I am still shocked when it has been apparent for some time now what the "agenda" is- and that is total domination. It appears to me that the Bush Administration via the congress gets just about whatever they want. I wouldn't bet on this (the spying thing) not going through, either.

I believe the best antidote to the fear and anger that attaches itself (like a bloodsucker) to oppression is to remain proactive and develop support networks with like-minded people and/or develop networks with people who are not like-minded around issues which all can agree. (For instance, civil liberties vs. the Patriot Act. If the ACLU and Gun-Owners of America can form a coalition-anything is possible.) This would serve the dual purpose of warding off the victimization mentality that can, if we are not vigilant, engulf us- and also to form grassroots organizations in every community in every state. We need to stand together regardless of party or religion or race. If, here in the heart of one of the most conservative areas of one of the most conservative states (Idaho) there are citizens groups forming- then truly hope and courage and the ability to see the truth through the propaganda are alive everywhere across this country.

Karl Rove is a masterful "chess player." He and those that would "rule the world" have consistentlly been several steps ahead of the opposition or as some would say- "the resistence." I believe there are already American concentration camps - er..."detention centers" on American soil (just google-see what you think). Still, those of us who believe in the United States constitution and the Bill of Rights have the overwhelming edge. First, MLK's long arc that "bends toward justice;" and second, there are more of us than there are of them- a lot more. There truly is strength and energy in numbers.

In the meantime, I plan to celebrate my life and my freedoms as long as I live.

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What's next?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: ConnecttheDots on May 20, 2005 1:28 PM   
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Senselessbrenner needs to wake up and take a “smart” pill.

If the Safe Access to Drugs and Child Prevention Act . . . no, wait! That bill hasn’t been written, yet. If H.B. 1528 passes, it will mark the dawning of a new economic era in the U.S. Here are some possible scenarios:

Following a prison-building boom comparable in intensity to Liberty Ship construction during WWII, half the U.S. population goes to work guarding the other half. (At the end of their mandatory minimum sentences, prisoners will change places with their guards.) Of course, this will keep the economy moving right along.

Citizens of good conscience will mimic the actions of Sgt. Schultz (of the old Hogan’s Heroes sitcom), down to the nervous head shaking and flapping jowls, as they utter Schultz’s famous line; “I know noth-eeeng!”

A citizen who inadvertently witnesses a “crime” decides that, rather than rat out his son, he’ll take his chances on getting caught and going to jail. But, because he’s now a criminal in the eyes of the law, he sees little reason not to break other laws. Soon, this one-person crime wave escalates from a crime of omission to crimes of commission. Now, multiply this by a factor of a few million and you end up with a formula for anarchic chaos.

C’mon people! Let’s get real. Our country – our world – faces innumerable problems in the immediate future, problems to which we need to find realistic and workable solutions. In no way is the crap that’s offered up in H.B. 1528 part of the solution. It’s only part of the problem.

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hari
[Report this comment]
Posted by: hari on May 20, 2005 1:35 PM   
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Having had a son who struggled with drug addiction for years, I would have been liable to arrest instead of being supportive of his efforts to quit drugs, even though he failed time after time.

One reason he failed was the total lack of effective treatment facilities available to him. If he (or I) had large amounts of money to pay for private treatment, he probably could have kicked early on. The only government-sponsored treatment was to addict him to another, more addictive, but not psychologically satisfying drug. He took this option, but was never able to completely get off his drug of choice and struggled with his problem until he died.

The government is so hypocritical about drugs that it is impossible not to be redundant in saying so. They outlaw drugs, tax them, can't keep drugs out of the country, don't provide treatment for those who really want it, and then expect family and friends to help put their loved ones in jail!

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but what about the concert???
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Posted by: rebel on May 20, 2005 4:32 PM   
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I am floored-just read article H.R. 1528, "Safe Access to Drug Treatment and Child Protection Act" (sure don't get the "treatment" part, as apparently anyone I turn in to the police for actual or suspected drug activity goes to jail, or I do if I elect to ignore said activity).

No one could possibly take this proposed legislation seriously. Obviously, it will do nothing to help "wage the war on drugs". The whole war on drugs has been a ridiculous failure and waste of time and money. Anyone with a brain knows addicts need treatment, not punishment. Just legalize drugs already and regulate them like the same way that alcohol and cigarettes (also drugs) are.
The second and far more serious issue is the totalitarian mind set behind it. We are now being asked (oops, REQUIRED) to spy, turn in neighbors, family, strangers and friends that we even SUSPECT might be involved in some sort of drug activity. Worse, the burden this Orwellian policy puts on bystanders is unbelievable. If I go to a concert, for instance, and smell marijuana, I guess I now must hunt down the crazed criminal and demand names, disturb the surrounding crowd (as they are all required to be involved as well) and haul my ass to the nearest phone to report the crime. What about my concert? Do I get reimbursed or anything?

Really, it brings up all KINDS of problems-should I carry a gun in order to force the pot-crazed lunatic/s to give me their names? Is it now my job to grab their pot, pipe or joint to ensure that further criminal activity is eliminated? Do I have to wait beside the potheads so they don't flee the scene (as they might likely do as these maryjane-fogged dope fiends will now face criminal sentences of the sort child molesters do)? I mean, I am truly confused as to what is expected of me once this law takes effect, which lord knows, it should, so we can get those marauding bands of potheads causing crime waves across the country off our streets and into our overcrowded jails-we could just let out the rapists and child molesters-hell, what kind of threat are THEY compared with a college student who tries a joint?

How dare Sensenbrenner - could his name BE more ironic-NOsensenbrenner is more like it- try to pull this 1984 move on us? The thought police are next. In fact, reread "1984" (quick, before it's banned). Welcome to reality!

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» RE: but what about the concert??? Posted by: Samantha Vimes
Would doctors who treat the addicted be jailed?
[Report this comment]
Posted by: janvdb on May 20, 2005 4:51 PM   
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What would this do to health care professionals who work in substance abuse? They find out about drug use in the process of trying to treat it. Would they all be criminals if they fail to instantly turn over any patient who backslides even once under treatment to the police?

What about emergency room doctors, nurses and receptionists? Anyone who comes in with an overdose would have to be reported to the police? That oughtta kill some addicts right away . . . since getting any help would mean years in the can.

What about parents who pay for pay for drug treatment? Obviously they were aware of the drug use before they did that . . . and the crime wasn't reported to the police, so they are documented criminals subject to prosecution.

This bill would end all drug treatment. And we all know there is almost no treatment available in jail; you just wait wait wait.

Can you believe someone this lost in space was elected to the House?

Jan VanDenBerg

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Make everyone guilty
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Posted by: solitude on May 20, 2005 5:01 PM   
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The purpose of this is to make everyone gulity, put everyone in a position to be blackmailed and controlled. They can just pick you up, and take you away. So, its join the Party, or else. Donate, or else. Do this little favor, or else. Don't report this abuse, or else...

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Get real, folks.
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Posted by: Sojourner on May 20, 2005 5:32 PM   
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It's about votes and money, which have been the issues behind all the rhetoric for draconian laws and pleas for rehab from the beginning. The US voter doesn't have to think about the issue - simply, no drugs!

In addition to the handful who are out front telling us how much worse the punishment is than the crime, it means we all have to organize for candidates who, while keeping their mouths shut on the issue, let it be known their hearts are in the right place.

Everybody agrees drug laws don't work, but offer the voter something other than a pro-drug vote. That gets nowhere.

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clinker
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Posted by: cottontail on May 20, 2005 9:13 PM   
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These guys take turns making jackasses of themselves, DeLay, Norm Coleman, Frist, Hatch, Imhofe, Senselessbrenner, and many others. What does that say about the morons who vote them into office? If you don't believe this is a nation of brain-dead sheeple, you haven't watched some of those loony religious channels.

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» RE: clinker Posted by: paulaH
Surf Reality
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Posted by: surfreality on May 21, 2005 12:20 PM   
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As a practical matter,enforcing this crap is not very doable on a large scale basis. There are not nearly enough federal agents to do the job. This is more or less a legal toolkit for federal prosecutors. There are more long sentences to bandy about and threaten people with. It seems likely that Congressman Sensenbrenner has the medical marijuana crowd in mind. The feds want to stop the progress in California, this is but one approach.

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Sensenbrenner and drugs
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Posted by: newshound on May 21, 2005 2:28 PM   
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Laws such as this one is exactly how Hitler incrementally took over Germany. Need I say more.

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just tina
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Posted by: just tina on May 21, 2005 5:46 PM   
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Well, since members of our government are citizens too, then they ought to have the same rights and regulations as any other citizen. So, let me see---all government officials should be subject to random drug testing. All aids and staff should be required to report suspicious activity among elected officials.

And after being given mandatory police powers to rat on friends, family, and neighbors, why not make it legal for all citizens to torture other citizens for information that may lead to a drug bust as well.

Why not give citizens the right to kill anyone (preferably by remote control) they suspect might be a threat.

Why limit ourselves to reality or facts when we can have so much bigotry and fear to act upon.

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When we were young and Russia was far away.
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Posted by: rinthy on May 21, 2005 8:05 PM   
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When I was a little girl, our school teachers underlined the evils of COMMUNISM with stories about children forced to spy on their parents, inform against them, and watch as they were carted off to some gulag; a clear example of the collective evil of Russia as seen against an American government which revered the individual and the sanctity of the family. True, Russian children were said to inform on their parents' anti-Communist thoughts and deeds while American children...pre-schoolers and up... would be expected to inform on their parents' drugs of choice (would cigarettes count, I wonder?) Either way, this latest scheme smacks of the sort totalitarianism that failed to frighten me as a child, but scares the hell out of me as a grandparent.

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War on Drugs Obviously Doesn't Include Prescription
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Posted by: paulaH on May 21, 2005 9:47 PM   
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I have a real problem with the supposed "war on drugs" anyway when I see ads on television and in magazines several times daily, hell, several times hourly, telling us to ask our doctors to give us one drug or another. Do I need to turn in my hypocondriac sister-in-law that runs to the doctor after these commercials. "doctor doctor, I think I have (fill in blank here)."

Since the government apparently supports prescription drug use, I don't guess I would have been expected to turn in that same sister-in-law for her addiction to prescription drugs. After all, it's people like her that help keep the Repugnantans support base healthy.

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» But here's the bright side Posted by: Lloyd Drako
jmp3954
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Posted by: jmp3954 on May 21, 2005 10:00 PM   
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What area of Wisconsin does this fascist represent? This is a state that went for Kerry (albeit narrowly) and reelected Russ Feingold by a big margin. What gives? We must do everything we can to get rid of this little Himmler. Where do I send my (small) contibution to his likely 2006 opponent?

This reminds me of the worst abuses of the Communists, where people were encouraged to turn in their neighbors and family members for unsocialistic attitudes or behavior. Children were prompted to turn in their parents for unapproved activities, and they had "block captains" to ensure that everyone in a neighborhood toed the line.

This is not a left vs. right issue. We should work with conservative libertarians to expose this blatant power grab proposal for what it is and soundly defeat it.

I'd like to thank Alternet for informing me of this - I haven't seen a word about it anywhere else.

By the way, what about Russ Feingold for President in '08?

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Big wheel keeps on turnin', proud Mary keeps on burnin'
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Posted by: A rope leash on May 22, 2005 11:15 AM   
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Well, let's see foks...it wasn't until The Beatles and other rock bands started promoting drug use that drugs became "a problem". For years now, the subtle condoning of drug use has been broadcast through all sorts of media, from music to movies. An entire culture within the USA turned on to drugs because it was "cool", and all they had to do was turn on the radio to find their justification. To this day, drug use, and especially pot smoking, is portrayed in music videos and Hollywood movies as a sort of passive recess. It's no wonder people do drugs, it's now a part of our "normal" life.

All the while, an entire "government culture" thrives on the ugly suppression of the drug trade. This "law enforcement miltia" exists soley to keep itself sucking on the government tit. We can all notice, even with the added "war on terror", that our borders are porus and there's no stopping drug shipments. If the drug militia actually kept drugs off the street, how would they keep themselves employed? The drug war is a win-win-win for police officers, politicians, lawyers, judges, prison gaurds, and yes, even for drug dealers.

Getting busted is the worst thing that is ever going to happen to a pot smoker. Hemp is a threat to the distilled spirits industry, to the pharmacuetical industry, to the textile industry, to the oil industry...this is who keeps hemp from growing. It's clear to many that if pot smoking were legalized there would be fewer alcoholics and other drug addicts.

There are millions of habitual pot smokers in the USA right now...many, many more than our prison system could handle. The drug war's failure is evident in the fact that the product is present and available for discreet purchase. Perhaps they should all turn themselves in at the same time...

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One lonely voice speaking for millions
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Posted by: One lonely voice speaking for millions on May 22, 2005 11:54 AM   
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This is such a sad time in our history. They say history repeats its self. Why on God's earth are we copying the Nazi's. The term Czar has been used for years now in America. It has alway bothered me that no one else agreed with me that it was a problem. I called it "silenced in America by an American Czar".

In my dictionary Fund & Wagnalls Standard Desk Dictionary, the definition is as follows:

czar (zar) n 1. An emperor or king; esp., one of the former emperors of Russia. 2. An absolute ruler; despot. Also, tsar, tzar.

We don't have an emperor and we are not supposed to have a king. An absolute ruler? despot? The definition of despot:

des-pot (des'pat, -pot) n 1. An absolute monarch; autocrat. 2. A tyrant.

The definition of tyrant:

ty-rant (ti'rent) n 1. One who rules oppressively or cruely; a despot. 2. One who exercises absolute power without legal warrant, whether ruling well or badly.

Why don't people care. I'm sure the ones who are using the title Czar, know the definitions. It feels like "invasion of the body snatchers". Now everyone is just getting in line, blindly watching Micheal Jackson news. It's okay, we don't care.

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Desaparecido
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Posted by: Hydro on May 22, 2005 12:29 PM   
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Gosh, since we know the CIA helped bring Crack Cocaine into Los Angeles, that the Contra supply network was funded with drug money, that US soldiers have been caught ferreting drugs back from Colombia, that US dominated Afghanistan is once again a flourishing paradise for opium production, that the huge federal deficits is, inpart, floated with billions of dollars of laundered drug money, that George W. Bush was a cocaine addict, that the Bush family has had historical connections to major drug-dealers: can I (gleefully) turn these people in to the DEA?

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» RE: Desaparecido Posted by: Chiron
The Bogus War on Drugs, The Bogus War on Terrorism,Bogus War on Guns
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Posted by: Provocative1 on May 22, 2005 12:54 PM   
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The War on Drugs is Bogus!
THEY ARE THE DEALERS! THEY ARE THE CARTEL!
It is all just about Entrapment.
See my page on COVERT OPERATIONS,GANG STALKING
COVERT OPERATIONS,GANGSTALKING

See my alternative News Links,References, Resources Page:
THE TOWER:PART5

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GIVE ME A BREAK
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Posted by: TazzyGirl on May 22, 2005 1:10 PM   
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WHAT IS IT GOING TO TAKE FOR PEOPLE TO WAKE UP AND DO THE RIGHT THING THE GOVERNMENT IN POWER IS THE ONE WHO BROUGHT THESE DRUGS MR NORIAGIA IN 1989 WAS GUNNED DOWN ALL IN THE NAME OF DRUG WARS THAT THE PAST AND CURRENT PPL IN GOVERNMENT BROUGHT IN SO YOUR KIDS...THEIR KIDS KIDS WILL BE ADDICTED NOW THEY WANT YOU TO TURN ON THEM YET WE ALLOW KIDS TO BE RAPED AND KILLED BECAUSE THEY CANT KEEP CHILD MOLESTORS IN PRISON YET THEY WANT TO MAKE DRUG USERS SERVE MORE TIME THAT A MOLESTOR DOES. WHAT IS WRONG WITH THIS PICTURE??? anyone reading this BUT NOW IS THE TIME TO MAKE OURSELVES STOP WORKING FOR THE GOVERNMENT AND TAKE BACK THE POWER AND GET RID OF THESE LAZY PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAILED FOR OVER 40YRS IN PROTECTING THE FUTURE GENERATIONS WITH ALL THE KILLING AND FIGHTING HERE AND IN WARS AROUND THE WORLD NOW IS THE TIME TO TAKE BACK OUR COUNTRY AND STOP VOTING THESE LAZY PEOPLE IN WHO ARE GETTING GREEDY BY RISING TAXES ALL IN THE NAME OF POLICING WHILE THESE MURDERS RUN FREE MEAN WHILE EVERY MINUTE A CHILD SUFFERS SOME FORM OF ABUSE ALL A WHILE CHILDREN GO HUNGRY AND SLEEP ON NOTHING. TOO MUCH TO WRITE BUT HEAR ME TELL EVERYONE TO STORM YOUR GOVERNMENT BUILDINGS AND DEMAND PROTECTION TO OUR FUTURE CHILDREN WHO ARE LEARNING TO BE KILLERS AND RAPISTS HOOKERS WHY BECAUSE BOTH PARENTS HAVE TO WORK TO GIVE THEM A HOME. BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT WASTES YOUR HARD EARNED MONEY ON BILLS LIKE THIS ONE BEING TABLED. OUR CHILDREN NEED THEIR PARENTS TO HELP PROTECT THEM HOW CAN WE IF WE ARE SO BUSY FIGHTING THE WARS THE GOVERNMENT CREATES.

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What is a "Drug"?
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Posted by: Spectre359 on May 22, 2005 2:16 PM   
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I wonder how this "Act" is defining the word "Drug"?

Alcohol is a drug, and you KNOW how THAT went down.

This measure is unenforceable.

Actually tho' —this is naught but another form of State-sponsored terrorism, designed to further erode our trust in each other and even our own selves.

For a totalitarian system to prevail, personal independence & self-respect, healthcare, family, community, the national currency, privacy & spirituality must all be corrupted & debauched and anyone with Eyes to See bears witness to the fact that such is intentionally & systematically WELL underway —in America and much of the World.

This Act must be vigorously RESISTED.

NEVER surrender.

It must and WILL be undone.

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Oh Brother!!! (big brother!!!)
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Posted by: Ann S. on May 22, 2005 4:16 PM   
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For the life of me I can never figure out what people resort to for the passion in their lifes.
It makes me wonder what drugs this person takes to be so paranoid to call for such ridiculous actions!! It is absurd at best!
I wonder what planet this person (s) live on!! Certainly not the same one we do.
I also am very concerned as to what drugs THEY are taking as their thought processes are clearly impaired!
They need to be tested, because whatever it is they are taking needs some swift intervention. (posibly reporting as well???)
I doubt seriously they could withstand the scrutiny they are asking others to submit to.
I bet it is something completely off the charts. Who knows, we possibly may find a NEW drug they have been taking and we need to know that. Turning the tables can be very effective!
Being in the medical field and dealing with a great deal of the effects of drug abuse, this proposal is at best insanity dancing around trying to find a place to call home. It WILL NOT find a place here or anywhere that I can help stop it. These poor souls need a functional life to participate in. Let it be positive. Though that is clearly an area that is VERY foreign to them. They make about as much sense as someone who has od'd on heroin does when they hit the ER door. At least that patitent has a drug induced problem we can help with an a reason for their behavior. There is no "dominoe effect" in regards to marajuana going to heroin. I have dealt with this for 25yrs. So if you think it does I would LOVE to see ALL the data to support that insane idea.

These people are beyond any intervention from almost anything. One thing I have learned over the years it that until something hits YOU, you don't have great clarity as to what you are dealing with. At least the OD has a valid reason for their state of mental and physical situation. These folks promoting "spying" have no excuse except extreme ignorance. And I guarantee that if something were to happen to one of their family members, like finding a joint in a teenagers room, they would abandon this ridiculous stance that they have set up.

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Oh Brother! (continued)
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Posted by: Ann S. on May 22, 2005 4:17 PM   
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Those are NOTHING compared to prescription medication abuse, crack, heroin, etc. Those do require professional rehab. and counseling and should be made available to ANYONE in need!!

So thank you for alerting me to this group. How very very sad to have to do something so drastic for attention. I NEVER saw ANYONE OD from a joint!! NO ONE HAS! And the police have enough on their plate for such pettiness. I know this as well because I work with them for crisis counseling on scene for victims. These officers face MAJOR and VERY SERIOUS situations daily. This would bog them down. They already have enough to do. So does the gov't.

Also spying on someone is ILLEGAL in this country. So I pose this question~~~~What do we do with someone who has invaded someones possessions for this information or spys on a neighbor??? JAIL TIME. That's what we do. That is a criminal act and is treated as such. So these "upstanding individuals" are actually promoting breaking the laws that presently exist. What should we do to them????

How very very sad a state someones life has to be in to create all of this mess to feel impowered and important. It is not about drugs, it is ALL about THEM!

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Drug Intelligence
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Posted by: Chiron on May 22, 2005 4:36 PM   
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How encouraging that people are getting so freaked out by this insanity. But what I find most interesting is this: these comments, in defense of drugs like marijuana (which is far less harmful than alcohol or nicotine) and in support of sane solutions such as treatment programs for hard drugs, are some of the most intelligent and well reasoned I've encuontered on these boards, on any issue. Too bad the crazed right-wing fanatics currently in power aren't long on commen sense or logical deducutive powers.

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Let's go along with it....
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Posted by: Drewfromct on May 22, 2005 6:48 PM   
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The way the wingnuts and theofacists in Washington are going, this is probably sure to pass. But why wait? Pick up your phone and call your local cops. Call the DEA, the FBI and Homeland security. Call Senselessbrenner himself and
TURN IN RUSH LIMBAUGH!!!

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» RE: Let's go along with it.... Posted by: Samantha Vimes
They will go too far.
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Posted by: AltTexan on May 23, 2005 12:36 PM   
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It's just another example of how the GOP right will finally go too far, as if they hadn't already. At least they're smart enough, so far, to stay away from advocating for a military draft, even though Dubya's destruction and misuse of the U.S. military makes a draft necessary if his PNAC policies are to go forward. They know that a draft will in short order mobilize young people to actively oppose their rule. Well, if this so-called anti-drug legislation goes anywhere, if its passed and signed into law, it will be almost as destabilizing as would be a military draft.

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What country is this?
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Posted by: ald929 on May 26, 2005 11:46 AM   
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No-so-funny is how these same neocon morons in power talk of reagan's work in ending communism, yet are quickly bring the people’s freedoms to a major communistic level. Of course they’ll stay capitalist in the fiscal way, but the people are their army to be controlled as they see fit.
BS!!!!!!!!!!!! Impeach this entire administrations. Isn’t there a law to recall criminals in power without needing the house and senate (also full of criminals for they enabled them).

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Yeah RIGHT
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Posted by: ATU on May 30, 2005 9:00 AM   
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Fuckin republicans......

Jesus Fuckin Christ....Are they ALL smoking crack now?

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» RE: Yeah RIGHT Posted by: suesueisme@cox.net
suesueisme
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Posted by: suesueisme@cox.net on May 31, 2005 7:08 AM   
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This is so against all our constitutional rights. I can't believe it's being considered. The first politician family member to be jailed would end this stupidity. One should know they won't send congressmen and senators to jail because their kid smokes grass. Come on people lets get real!!!!!!

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Au Contraire!
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Posted by: Vous on Jun 1, 2005 8:34 PM   
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It can be done, it's being done, it's the American Way. It makes money: fistfuls for the anti-drug lords and good PR for the moral elite. If we, like the Dutch, had invested in making money taxing vice instead of trying to stomp it out everyone would be far happier. But we invested in the latter and the latter will have their fistful of money at anyones expense, even their own families. And certainly at yours and mine.

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F*CK The Prison State Pt1
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Posted by: 13chaos20 on Aug 10, 2005 3:41 AM   
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This government has gotten way out of control. It is not for the people, it's for the corporations/Monetary intrest.
Yes it is class war @ it's worst.

I hope you've seen some of those pics congress banned from the public showing they're sick sadomaschistic intrests in Iraq.
That's not the only concentration camp event in American history either.
They've now built concentration camps all over the u.s.
one of many examples:
www.prisonplanet.com

I can't believe you people condemn Hitler, than stand behind people trying to do worse.
Not saying I like the Nazi's but intresting enough all they're top scientist ended up here, shit majority of there bankers already were her. I beleive one of the more memorable one's was a Prescott Bush (I think that's GW's grand pappy??) Well they're veiws haven't changed that much in the last three generations have they?
And it's amazing how many drugs you can bring in this country if you work in the cia.
Amazing how much shit our CIA destroys in our own ans many different countries (britain bombs, south america, waco, OKC, and the sept 11th here) and then calls it a terrorist act.
It's amazing how the news will make up bullshit, and brainwash the public away from all this. Not really are intelligence agency said in the 30's it would control all the media, that it was the easist way to control the people.

Amazing how the skull & bones (another representation of the elite class just like the freemasons, or tri-lateral) started the orginization that would later evolve into our cia.
Wow they never lost control of this country once.
Almost did when Kennedy was about to reveal some secrets to the people, especially something about a technological deal between us and otherwordly presence).
Kinda funny India came out and said that aliens exists and their government is working with them, last year to it's people. Check they're tech section. www.indiadaily.com pretty cool.
continued.

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pt2
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Posted by: 13chaos20 on Aug 10, 2005 3:43 AM   
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Prettty amazing how marijiuana use totally f*cks up brain programming techniques like for instance the EMF technology that is all over the globe.
Yes you've seen them (the supposed cellular towers, some are.) You've even seen some of the effects if you saw the first Gulf war coverage, from about a hundred yards back the Iraqis grab their ears, dropping their weapons. In extreme pain this is from a class of weopons called high energy. Yes remember by our governments actions it can be assumed it is illegeal to kill somebody, unless you use a microwave weapon, radiation, virus, bacterial warfare, or some other form that does not cause an imediate death.

Pretty amazing how opium poppy production has skyrocketed over 10X what it was before we invaded afganistan.
wouldn't that be the cia's goals though? Import it with diplomatic imunity And make the penalties even higher. You tax the people at least twice that way. plus you look upstanding. (what a joke)

Pretty amazing how they proved gulf war syndrome was a result of the tainted innoculations our troops (guinea pigs) recieved, well that and uranium enriched weapons don't help any. Not to amazing considering 10 years before aids came out we said something along th line of we would be able to produce a virus that would focus on the central nervous system, in certain ethnicities. Then 10 years later it emerges in Africa, back in the U.S. one of are to cdc doctors decides to go from wone end of the country to the other innoculating gays. Weeks after his trip, Aids shows it's face in the U.S. one by one in every town he went too. It's not the only taste of bio weopons are country has recieved either.

Osama Bin Laden is an actor(FAKE), just like the rest of the beheadings (psyops project), the large rope that just suddenly and ideally appears from no where and the group of (fake iraqis) helping pull down the statue of sadam (Might I add a large buisness partner of the Bush's). The moon landing (FAKE), We pprobably been, but they couldn't show you those tapes.

How bout the Mergovian blood line? Look it up if you don't know.

The smartest thing we could ever do, Is start again with a constitution for the ever evolving world we live in. Not one that was trampled by the world, so the (extremely elite) rich could conviently prostitute out the rest of us.

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we should also tattle when. . .
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Posted by: balcerebon on May 11, 2006 9:49 PM   
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Should you overhear your sister tell her roommate she was suspicious that you had been spying on her, turn her in for being a presumptuous little b***ch drug addict! ANd should your father suggest to your mother that he suspects the dog might be considering peeing on the rug, then immediately let authorities know of your father's paranoia; this might be a result of drug use. And if you witness a friend partake in the smoking of one joint instead of his usual eight beers a night, then report to authorities and his family doctor so that he might not stray from his proper drug regimen so vital to his health. And if a co-worker relates a story of his younger years and an occasion of drug use, then contact local police immediately, as he could still be involved in the recessive and unwitting encouragement and/or peer pressure for others to use drugs; plus, once an addict always an addict, so one way or another, let police know. This sort of information is CRUCIAL to building a wall of trust and safety within our community. If you fail comply in such situations, police will be at your door within moments, stripping you of your freedom, along with other hardened criminals for up to ten years, no chance of parole, charged with not minding your own busniness. Thank you.

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