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Rights and Liberties

The New Schism

By Kelly Hearn, AlterNet. Posted April 21, 2005.


Home to 65 percent of the world's Catholics, Latin America is increasingly at odds with church doctrine -- especially over abortion. The appointment of ultraconservative Joseph Ratzinger as pope offers little to close the rift.
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Clamoring for attention from a world distracted by war and terrorism, Latin Americans were hoping for a pope from their region where, by some accounts, 65 percent of the world's Catholics live.

It is also where anti-choice laws cause millions of unsafe, illegal abortions each year and where a popular repudiation of the church's stance on abortion and birth control is taking place.

That may spell headaches for the Vatican as Latin American leaders face secular pressures to soften abortion laws. But any hopes that a new pope might have tilted the church's stance on abortion was shot down with the election Tuesday of ultraconservative German Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger as Pope Benedict XVI.

Ratzinger in 2004 ordered bishops to refuse communion to politicians who support abortion rights, including presidential candidate John Kerry. In a letter that was obtained by the Italian magazine L'Espresso, Ratzinger wrote that abortion supporters "would be guilty of formal cooperation in evil, and so unworthy to present himself for holy communion."

If recent past is prologue, the new pope's unyielding stance is likely to set him at odds against Latin American politicians.

In Argentina, for example, Bishop Antonio Baseotto suggested in March that a high Argentine government official should be subjected to the biblical punishment of being "cast into the sea" for suggesting abortion be legalized. In response, Argentina's president, Nestor Kirchner, refused to recognize the bishop, prompting the Vatican to make the odd and unexplained charge that Buenos Aires was restricting religious freedom.

The issue, while mollifed slightly in recent days, challenged relations between Buenos Aires and Rome and reopened the abortion debate here, which recently has been energized by activists and organizations making public appeals for legalization. Recently, dozens of pro-choice supporters ran ads in major Argentine papers calling for legalization of abortion.

And in Brazil, the world's largest Catholic nation, President Luiz Inacio Lula da Silva has come under fire from the church for proposals to lighten restrictions on abortion.

In an interview published in early April, Rio de Janeiro Cardinal Eusebio Scheid took shots at the left-leaning president, saying "a real Catholic cannot be in favor of abortion." Lula has defended his faith in media interviews while refusing to back down from his government's stances. Pope John Paul II himself fell at odds with Lula's government and many Brazilians on issues such as contraception, abortion and Marxist liberation theology.

Watching Public Opinion

What do everyday Catholics in Latin America think?

A recent survey of Catholics in three countries, Mexico, Bolivia and Colombia, shows large swaths of Latin Americans do not agree with traditional doctrine.

The survey, conducted for Catholics for a Free Choice, a Washington-based advocacy group, found that significant numbers of Catholics in Colombia, Mexico and Bolivia believe abortion should be allowed in some or all circumstances. The report found that:

  • Eighty-one percent of Mexican Catholics opposed excommunicating a woman who has had an abortion (the current Catholic doctrine). While more conservative in their views, 74 percent of Bolivian Catholics and 67 percent of Colombian Catholics think a woman should be allowed to remain in the church after an abortion.


  • Of Catholic populations in Mexico, Bolivia and Columbia, 60 percent of Mexicans, 56 percent of Bolivians and 49 percent of Colombians believe that abortions should be allowed in some or all circumstances.


  • Sixty-two percent of Bolivian Catholics, 55 percent of Mexican Catholics, and 48 percent of Colombian Catholics believe the decision to have an abortion lies not with the church but with the couple.


Perhaps most notably, the study showed that Catholics surveyed do not depend on church opinion when voting, further highlighting the disconnect between doctrine and political reality. Only 19 percent of Mexican Catholics, for example, said their priest would sway their votes. In Colombia, only 22 percent said their religious leaders' opinion mattered to them and in Bolivia only 30 percent felt the same.

Similar trends apply to reproductive rights, according to the study. Ninety one percent of Catholics in Colombia and Mexico and 79 percent of Catholics in Bolivia believe that couples should have access to contraception, including condoms and birth control pills. Of those groups, high numbers believe public hospitals and health clinics should provide reproductive services for free: 96 percent of Mexican Catholics, 91 percent of Colombian and Bolivian Catholics.

"These studies clearly demonstrate the attitude of many Catholics regarding the church's role of reproductive rights and politics are moving to a more progressive stance, even though the Vatican refuses to accept this shift," the study states. "Throughout this report it is clear that the beliefs of Catholics in Bolivia, Colombia and Mexico, more often than not, take a different direction that those of church officials. When and if the Vatican ever decides to acknowledge this point, it will see that Catholics all over the world have already moved in this direction."

How will global Catholicism contend with what appears to be a mass repudiation of essential points of doctrine among Latin America's vast Catholic population?

While observers say more Latin American priests on the ground seem less willing to excommunicate a woman for having an abortion, social researchers like Mariana Romero of the Buenos Aires-based Center for the Study of State and Society say the church is very unlikely to change its essential doctrine, despite secular pressures and a softening of abortion laws throughout Latin America.

Echoing that point, Marcelo Sanchez Sorondo, an Argentine archbishop and the chancellor of the The Pontifical Academy of Sciences, says the church will face new realities and may shift on certain issues. But it will remain unmoved on some fronts.

"The church," he said in a recent interview published in El Clarin, a leading Argentine newspaper, "is never going to accept abortion."

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Kelly Hearn is a former UPI staff writer who lives in Washington D.C. and Latin America. His work has appeared in several U.S. publications and web sites including the Christian Science Monitor, The American Prospect and High Country News.

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author and agitator of church and state
Posted by: eileen_flmng on Apr 21, 2005 6:33 AM   
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Jesus confronted the temple authorities with the fact that those in power heaped on The Law but refused to lighten the burden of the poor, oppressed, marginalized, outcasts and diseased. Jesus was always moved by pity/compassion to help. The teachers of The Law were addicted to power, control and the status quo. Nothing has changed in 2,000 years.
What is moral about forcing a mother to birth a child she cannot feed and must watch die of hunger? What is moral about determining who and how one should love another? What is moral about bishops and cardinals who allowed the abuse of children to continue and covered it up?
As an ex-Roman and compassionate Christian, my heart breaks at the corruption within all church institutions and that the tradition has become an idol.
To read more, click on www.olivetreesfoundation.org
download the FREE novel Keep Hope Alive and take comfort that the God of the living, continues to speak to any open vessel and "the times they are a changin."

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Cardinals take one step closer to extinction
Posted by: danidono on Apr 21, 2005 6:59 AM   
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Thee are times when the light of simple reality ultimately overcomes the deepest conviction. While the Cardinals may be committed to the notion that they alone can comprehend the mysteries and destinies of women's bodies, the elegant truth that women now understand that they are the mistresses and interpreters of their own bodies. The Cardinals are left with a handful of incantations and increasingly meaningless threats of excommunication, seemingly unaware that the power of a curse lies within the heart of the one being cursed. There may be a great period of mayhem, and undoubtably a monstrous amount of money thrown at the world in an attempt to keep it flat and manageable. Unfortunately, for the Cardinals and this unfortunate place-holder of a Pope, they are attempting to use powers that evaporate daily as women come to understand their own real power to control their lives and the lives of their children. The Cardinals are right to fear birth control, the true issue at the heart of the abortion "debate." Healthy women in control of their own bodies make lousy theological slaves. The truth is out, it's alive and well in the world. The Vatican "soldiers of dust" will still have victorious battles for the amount of money they will bring to this effort is mind-boggling. Despite that financial advantage, the war for the health and well-being of women in already over because women all around the world are coming to know the truth. We are not theological conundrums or mystical creatures, but rather something much better. We are simply human and free to participate in the fruits of human labor - medicine, education and science. No amount of incense, pomp, gold thread and politicial influence can erase that knowledge.

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The New Schism
Posted by: Johanna Moren on Apr 21, 2005 7:01 AM   
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This article is typical of all the interviews on the T.V. about the Pope's election. It didn't matter if the interviewer was interviewing a Bishop, Cardinal, Priest or an expert. The only things they wanted to talk about were; birth control, contraception, abortion and women in the church. Sorry I forgot one...married priests.
Now, if you look at this list,if this is what they want (whoever they are) The Pope might as well put up a FOR SALE sign on the VATICAN and retire.
I never heard one interview, where they talked about the teaching of Christ.....if we were following the teaching of Christ they wouldn't need contraception or abortion.
These, two laws, they say, are needed in the poor countries; why? Could it be, because they ask for bread and we give them contraception and abortion. Oh, and the greatest gift of all "Globalisation."
Something about this whole argument doesn't make sense.
Johanna Moren

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» RE: The New Schism Posted by: Aurora
ABORTION IS WRONG-YOU SHALL NOT KILL !!!!!!
Posted by: WONDERWALEYE on Apr 21, 2005 7:28 AM   
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We don't make babies, GOD does. We only go thru the reproductive actions given by God!!! When the day comes that man can design and make a babie outside the womb then maybe they have a right to distroy, but I don't think that day will ever come!!! Folks forget that God has a handle on things!! The BIBLE says: SOME FOLKS DIE YOUNG BUT HAVE A FULL LIFE!!! It is very hard for folks to understand GOD'S WAYS. The BIBLE also says: WHEN YOU WHERE YOUNG, YOU THOUGHT ONE WAY AND WHEN YOU GET OLDER YOU THINK DIFFERENTLY, AND SO SHALL IT BE WHEN YOU GO TO HIS KINGDOM!!! You either accept GOD'S ways or you go your own way. If you light a candle [JESUS] and place it in the the center of the room and you take four folks and put them against each wall, you shall find that each person will have to walk in a different direction to get to the light[JESUS] From where your standing their is only one way that points to the light.[JESUS] All the other ways are almost infinent except for just ONE!!!! Does the cry for abortion come from man or GOD??? MAY THE LOVE OF JESUS BE WITH YOU!!!! [this has two meanings]

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» RE: ABORTION IS WRONG-YOU SHALL NOT KILL !!!!!! Posted by: Michael Turnauer, Vancouver,WA
Be Free
Posted by: pcushnie on Apr 21, 2005 7:55 AM   
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The mind twists and contorts itself trying to reconcile evil and a loving god. Endless apologies are made to account for the contradictions between a supposedly omni-everything deity and the reality of life on Earth, a deity that is at once all-powerful, yet never held accountable. Its nature is malleable, shaped by expediency. It is unknowable in one moment, then imbued with human characteristics in the next. Omnipotent, it still has wants and makes plans. And if “everything serves God’s plan,” then everything must be good, even the most heinous crime. Omniscient, it is still credited with granting us free will. The “word of god,” the bible, is wide open to interpretation.
Philosophers philosophize. Theologians apologize. Gotta get this square peg into this round hole, dammit! Make it fit!
But wait. A better way exists; a way to do away with the contradictions and conundrums; the sophistry and specious arguments; the pious frauds. Clear your mind. Uncomplicate life.
How?
Throw out the gods, the popes, the priests, the holy books and relics. Assign them to the “trash heap of history.” Wake up to the fact that the supernatural is never an answer, only a complication. Tsunamis and earthquakes are the result of plate tectonics. Period. Nothing else is needed to understand them. Right behavior does not require the dictates of a god. We are each responsible to our fellow humans and accept that responsibility if we want to lead good, productive lives.
God is a lie.
Religion is a fraud.
Atheism is the celebration of reason and humanity; the debunking of myth, superstition, and magical thinking.
Embrace it.

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» RE: Be Free Posted by: Xynyx
» RE: Be Free Posted by: nickptar
» RE: Be Free Posted by: elmysterio
» RE: Be Free Posted by: pcushnie
Troubleshooter
Posted by: Troubleshooter on Apr 21, 2005 9:23 AM   
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Ok, look, I'm a non-theist, so I'm not defending the policies themselves, but if you join the club, you play by the rules.

The rules are very simple. Pick a hole, marry it, stick to it. And make sure it's of the appropriate type as defined in the rule book.

If you don't like the rules, don't join the club, you knew the rules before you joined.

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» RE: Troubleshooter Posted by: nakis
» RE: Troubleshooter Posted by: Swimoink
» RE: Troubleshooter Posted by: Feed_backer
No biblical basis for anti-abortion stand of Church
Posted by: aldo on Apr 21, 2005 10:38 AM   
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The Bible is silent on abortion specifically.
The current stance is an application of the 'precautionary principle': since it is unknow when 'the soul is infused into the body', it is assumed to have happened upon conception. Which, incidentally, makes God the greatest abortionist of all, as over 50% of all conceptions don't implant; and limbo (another medieval invention) the most crowded place in after-life.
It might just be, however, that God wanted us to be responsible and defend our choice when we come to see Him. He reserves the judgement.
Maybe the greatest sinners are those who want to take God's place and judge on earth.
aldo

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excommunication???
Posted by: elmysterio on Apr 21, 2005 12:42 PM   
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Hmmm... That's probably one of the most wrong-headed things I've ever heard... Whatever happened to "HATE the sin, LOVE the sinner"??? That's what Jesus taught. What gives anybody the right to excommunicate someone??? God loves ALL his people... whether they meet the church's moral code or not... All God asks is this: "Love the Lord your God with all your heart and love your neighbour as yourself"... simple. Easy. In fact, God made it idiot proof, considering a great many of my christian brothers and sisters are idiots... but you know what? I love them anyways.

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Another "conservative" who conserves nothing but his own power
Posted by: Neilio on Apr 21, 2005 1:11 PM   
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A new pope was selected. Woo-Hoo. Am I supposed to expect anything from this guy? What does a Pope do apart from being the most famous PR guy in the world?

Does the Pope affect your daily life? I know what he is supposed to represent. But I expect nothing from him. The Pope's job, apparently, is to make sure that nothing changes. Al all costs.
The pride of the Catholic church is such that even to acknowledge that there are problems would undermine their supposed power. To say they were wrong about anything, or to look a the current state of the world and say "this is what the Catholic church can do to help", would not even be entertained as a thought. To admit you're wrong, or admit that things need to change, to them, is like admitting you're wrong about everything.

Case in point: The Catholic law against birth control. I'm not talking abortion, but preventative birth control.
As far as I know, birth control as we know it is a modern invention. There weren't condoms when the bible was written. And there certainly wasn't AIDS. The reason they have the rule is simply that they want as many Catholics as possible. Thats why two generations ago in my family they were having 15-20 kids per family.
But now in the face of the AIDS crisis in Africa, they stand to lose millions of Catholics because all that stands in between them and AIDS is a thin piece of rubber. If the Pope were truly concerened about saving lives, he could do something about it. But he won't. The message is sent loud and clear. Despite all the talk about "culture of life" and all that, the Vatican would watch the world burn before they change.

The reason this Pope was chosen was precisely that he will fight tooth and nail to maintian the status quo.

How long can the church last staying the same in an ever-changing world?

Shut up.
Say your prayers.
Don't ask questions.
Or go to Hell.

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Social Justice
Posted by: dosdos on Apr 21, 2005 5:24 PM   
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The issues of Social Justice and environment degradation and animal extintion due to economical inbalances are not relevant to a church that only wants to scare others and offer easy ways out for a price. The display of wealth and power was so scandalous when 2/3 of the world's pupulation is starving due to policies of this church.

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You are going to hell
Posted by: Feed_backer on Apr 21, 2005 8:34 PM   
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If I can still remember my 12 years of catholic school, I remember that all non catholics are going to hell. What dialogue is the new pope going to have with other religions, or even other sects of christianity?

I've got the answer! You are all going to HELL!

I am no longer a catholic or a christian

Why? The whole thing makes no sense. At one time, all catholics were excommunicated. Way cool. There was a french pope and a roman pope. both excommunicatated the followers or the other, thus all catholics are now going to hell; so say the popes. HaHaHaHa

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Uganda: what's working against AIDS
Posted by: Rose on Apr 22, 2005 6:38 AM   
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Believe it or not, ABC strategy has worked

The AIDS prevalence rate in Uganda plummeted from 30% to 6% within the last decade. Global health researchers determined that this decline, the world’s largest, was accomplished with the ‘ABC’ strategy: Abstinence until marriage, Be faithful in marriage and Condom for high-risk groups.

While the infection rate in many African countries is increasing, in Uganda it is decreasing dramatically. We achieved this without following the formula the experts have been advocating over 20 years, namely, condoms, drugs, and testing.

Instead, Uganda achieved this with a home-grown, low-cost programme built around something offensive to conventional experts: promotion of abstinence and fidelity, with condoms promoted only quietly, to high-risk groups and those already infected.

In his article in The Weekly Standard, Edward C. Green, a medical anthropologist and senior research scientist at the Harvard Centre for Population and Development Studies said “Information about what was actually working in Uganda was unpopular. Condoms have been regarded as the first line of defence for everyone, everywhere, and anyone who disagrees with this orthodoxy has been dismissed as a religious fanatic with 'an agenda.'"

Few AIDS experts will accept the evidence from Uganda because people do not want to admit they might have been wrong, especially in a matter involving countless millions of dollars and the lives of millions of people. Condom promoters will not admit the fact that there are no definite examples yet of generalised epidemics that have been turned back by prevention programmes based primarily on condom promotion.

Research puts condom failure at about 15%.

Experts think Africans are like animals that have no control over their sexual behaviours. They are naturally polygamous, hormones-driven and engage in sex trade because they are poor. If we accept this condescending view, condoms seem to be the only realistic solution to AIDS.

Western donor organisations like USAID have given funds to marketing companies to promote condom use and refused to fund programmes that promote abstinence and fidelity.

written by: Jimmy Okello, freelance journalist in Uganda

www.newvision.co.ug/D/8/459/429861

Published 4/19/2005

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Jesus: Bleeding heart, right to life pacifist.
Posted by: jreinhart1 on Apr 22, 2005 6:56 AM   
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Jesus did not care much for the dogma and organization of the self righteous as identified by his statement that he could rebuild the temple of Jerusalem in three days and his dislike of the religious practices of the pharasees.

He endorsed faith on a personal level in that the righteous pray in private, not in public like the self righteous hipocrites. He wanted people to spread the faith but was against the combination of practicing faith with politics and commerce as evidenced by his statements of give unto Ceasar what is Ceasar's and the expultion of the money changers at the temple.

Jesus was a champion for the poor, sick, elderly and even those in jails. His teachings of the good samaritan, the poor woman who gave what she could compared to those who gave out of their excess, the sermon on the mount, and many more, seem to be lost today. Those who hated Jesus were the wealthy and dogmatic of the time who considered him a glutton and a drunkard that spent most of his time with low lifes for which after he was asked why he was spending time with these sick people, said that is it not the sick that need me most?

It is my observation that the current day Christian religion and the Roman Catholic Church is more closely fashioned after the Roman Empire and not Jesus' teachings 2000 years ago.

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Abortion or Choice?
Posted by: mkwagner on Apr 22, 2005 7:56 AM   
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One problem I see with the way all media outlets reports the abortion issue is that they have adopted the language of the Anti-abortionists. Anyone who believes women should have the right to choose are labeled pro-abortion. Reproductive freedom is immediately translated into pro-abortion. THE WOMEN IN CHINA ARE ALSO FIGHTING FOR THE RIGHT TO CHOOSE. The difference is they want the right to choose life.

For centuries it has been acceptable for men to terminate pregnancies most often by killing the mother along with the fetus. That has not been a huge problem with the Catholic Church. Even insurnace companies forcing women to terminate pregnancies has not caused major Vatican anger. However, when women took control of their reproductive capabilities the Vatican reacts with unparalleled vigor.

There never is any mention by the Vatican of the social evils that place women in a position of having to choose between the life they are carrying and other lives--whether it is their own, other children...

The Vatican has never openly recognized the basic humanity and equality of women; never addressed the evils centuries of patriarchal systems have thrusted on women in order to control the production of the next generation. In fact, historically the Vatican has preached the value of the unborn child over that of its mother.

When the Vatican recognizes the basic rights of women to their own bodies, and preaches against the societal evils that put pregnant women in desperate situations that force them to consider aborting their unborn child (such as no health insurance, no access to adequate medical care, or economic means to survive). Until the Vatican preaches against the institutional discrimination and dehumanization of women and threats excommunication to those who perpetrate violence--physical, emotional, and economicviolence-- against women than the Vatican will be not recognized as a legitimate moral authority on matters of reproduction. Until that time the Vatican will continue to be another patriarchal system attempting to dominate women.
BTW: When I was pregnant with my first born, my insurance would only cover the cost of an abortion. Pres. Carter pushed through and side legislation making that illegal. The health care proposal of the current administration would give insurance companies the right to again make those kinds of demands on women. mkw

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» RE: Abortion or Choice? Posted by: Rose
Vatican is Power -Accept it or Harness it
Posted by: sainthood on Apr 22, 2005 5:32 PM   
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IF BUSH IS THE NEW HITLER IS JOSEPH THE NEXT POPE Pius XII ? ZTo interpret Pope Benedict and remnants of hope in religion, we must understand how why John Paul could turn both cheeks away from a vicious US imperialism and a savage greed-driven Capitalism.
John Paul dies inside long before his death in Rome. The murders of priests by US death squads in Latin America and the fall of his beloved Poland from Communism into a debased modernism killed the spirit of the Pope who then killed the Church with his purges of Church activists.

The Pope’s weakness and withdrawal into safe institutions of the Church and tradition is typical (self-defeating) human nature. But his methodical destruction of the popular church of Liberation Theology in Latin America cannot be dismissed as simple minded or created by fear and defeatism. This pogrom was evil.

Many support the Church’s views on morality, homosexuality, birth control and abortion and we can be patient on women’s issues and ignore condom use in diseased regions. But we cannot tolerate, nor remain faithful, to a great institution that continues to ally itself in every way with the rich and their hypocritical polices of keeping the downtrodden pliant and useful – be it in the mega-city slums of the Third World or the millions incarcerated at US institutions of penal corrections.
But to blame the Pope(s) or the Church is to commit the same sin that we believe is at the root of evil in modernism: The void from the Left and from religious leaders of all denominations on how to create the force needed to fix the world. Most leaders and Church people perpetuate a code of silence – a code that breeds fascism and denial.

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Benedictus Catholicus: A Pope for the 21st Century?
Posted by: Andros on Apr 23, 2005 2:11 PM   
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Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger is not as famous as the last pope but he is a known quality. If the past is a guide for the future, he will be a very conservative pope.
But, what does this mean? Should the church change because of the times, or just because its members don't follow all of its doctrines? Is religious dogma true for ever and ever? For example, why is the use of condoms or birth control against Catholic dogma? Is in written in the holy book somewhere? My answer is that the church is still uptight about human sexuality. While condoms have been proven to prevent deadly diseases, why is the church against them?
Something that was way too obvious to me since John Paul II fell into his death bed was the absence of women in the whole process--in the funeral, the religious ceremonies and the eventual selection of the new pontiff. Not even ..altar girls were allowed. Well, I did see lots of nuns in St. Peter's Square, but like women elsewhere they were just observers. Women have been kept subservient, second class if you like, and out of leadership positions in the Catholic church. Don't expect this to change soon. The new pope is a very convinced man for he believes in the absolute truth; a truth that apparently has been discovered by his church.
Ratzinger has called homosexuality a tendency toward "intrinsic moral evil." I wonder if active homosexuality is considered grounds for excommunication? Probably not! Getting divorced or having an abortion are. The latter are considered greater evils than the sins of Catholic priests (all male remember?) who sexually molested thousands of young boys! I haven't heard that anyone of those perverts being excommunicated. Have you?
Life shouldn't be viewed only as a catharsis stage before a person enters heaven. The church has to be a bit more practical and try a bit harder to enhance the quality of life for the most underprivileged persons here and now. There has been a symbiotic relationship between the lay people and the hierarchy because both needed each other in order to survive. But, the equation is changing, so the question for the Catholic Church and Pope Benedict is: which is the needier party today? One of the two apparently has more choices than the other.
andros @ www.liberalcitizen.blogspot.com

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RE: ABORTION IS WRONG-YOU SHALL NOT KILL !!!!!!
Posted by: scsmith on Apr 23, 2005 10:26 PM   
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Hate to be the one to burst your balloon, WW, but 53% of all pregnancies terminate naturally (i.e. without human intervention) before childbirth. If your premise is that "God creates babies", then you must also admit that God destroys them. In fact God would rank as the most the world's most prolific abortionist, by your own standards.

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rose, get your facts straigtht
Posted by: heliana on Apr 23, 2005 10:53 PM   
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Your comment seems true on its face value, but in reality it is not. The reason for that is that the Church has never put the same amount of pressure and/or resources toward enforcing their own doctrine of putting the needy first, but has grossly thrown its weight toward defending anti-choice and anti-family planning laws.

Did the Catholic church denounce any of the Bush admininstration policies toward the poor? No

Did the Catholic church speak out for women rights? Never. As a matter of fact the Catholic church is incredibly prescriptive when it comes to women. We are here to reproduce, follow rules and never design our own. Personally I don't care for that.

Does the Catholic church put pressure on any government to afford all children healthcare? No.

Get off your high horse and see the church for what it truly is: doctrinaire, defensive and morally corrupt.

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Latin Americans do not think like Americans
Posted by: ejeder on Apr 24, 2005 4:20 PM   
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As a Colombian who was raised Catholic, I think it is important to point out that Latin Americans have a different mentality than Americans, and perhaps, as Weber argued, it is precisely because our culture is rooted in the Catholic religion as opposed to the Protestant.

We have a saying "el que peca y reza empata", which means "he who sins, and then prays, ties (as in ties a soccer match)". In a sense, what this means is that any sin may be forgiven, a concept that probably stems from the practice of confession, which protestants do not have. If there is anyplace in the world where the laws of the church are broken it is in Latin America. However, our Catholic outlook permits us to maintain the belief that we may do this and still remain in God´s flock.

Thousands upon thousands of women have been having abortions in Latin America for many years, and not once has one been excomunicated, and I hardly believe that the Church will start to do so now, because that would be shooting itself in the foot. Instead, the Church will continue to set what it believes is a high moral bar, and Latins will continue to bend the rules with the full knowledge that they will be forgiven.

While this culture-wide attitude of looking the other way when a rule is transgressed may be beneficial to, for example, women who have had abortions, it also has its downsides. For example, it is probably true that in Latin America there are just as many molestations of children by clergy, but our more flexible, perhaps more Catholic, concepts of crime and punishment mean that these will probably not be brought to light like they have in countries with a predominantly Protestant culture like the US.

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