COMMENTS: 124
The Ft. Hood Massacre Is George Bush's Fault
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If Bill Clinton - or, presumably, Al Gore (or even Ralph Nader) - had been President in 2001, the Ft. Hood massacre almost certainly wouldn't have happened. Because George W. Bush was president, it did. Here's why it's Bush's fault:
One of the first lessons aspiring novelists and screenwriters learn is that the goodness of a hero is defined by a single quality - the evil of his opponent. From Superman's Lex Luthor to Batman's Joker to Indiana Jones' Nazis to Luke Skywalker's Darth Vader, for a hero to be perceived as larger than life, he must have a larger than life enemy.
If Frodo in "Lord of the Rings," for example, hadn't been forced to do battle with the supernatural powers of the Ring and its minions, his story would have merely been a boring travelogue. But with an army of supernaturally brilliant, evil, and powerful opponents, Frodo had the opportunity to display his extraordinary inner courage and resourcefulness, qualities he didn't even realize he had until they were called forth by the peril of an awesome evil.
This is a lesson that was not lost on Karl Rove and George W. Bush. If they could recast George as the opponent of a power as great as the Ring, then the rather ordinary Dubya could become the extraordinary SuperGeorge, rising from his facileness to prevail over supernatural powers of evil.
Bill Clinton had a similar chance, but passed on it for the good of America and the world.
When bin Laden attacked us in the 1990s - several times - in an attempt to raise his own stature in the Islamic world, Bill Clinton dealt with Osama like the criminal he was. He enlisted Interpol and the police and investigative agencies of various nations, brought in our best intelligence agents, and missed bin Laden in a missile-launched assassination attempt by a scant twenty minutes (bringing derisive howls from Republicans that he was trying to "wag the dog" and deflect attention from the Monica investigations).
As Clinton left office, he and the CIA were tightening the noose on bin Laden, and his National Security Advisor, Sandy Berger, told me that when he briefed his successor, Condoleezza Rice, he told her to put bin Laden and al-Qaeda at the top of her priority list and thus finish the job the Clinton administration had nearly completed.
As we know, when Rice, Rumsfeld, Cheney, Bush, et al finally came up with the priorities for their new administration in January of 2001, al-Qaeda had been replaced by tax cuts for Bush's rich donors on the "A" list, and didn't even appear on the "B" list.
Thus came 9/11, despite over fifty explicit warnings given to the President, including the infamous August 6, 2001 CIA briefing in Crawford, Texas that in the immediate future al-Qaeda intended to hijack commercial planes and use them to attack east coast targets. (Bush apparently took the warnings seriously - Ashcroft immediately stopped flying on commercial aircraft, and Bush moved to Texas for the longest vacation in the history of the American presidency...and even when that was over, he preferred Florida to target-listed Washington, D.C.)
In the days after the 9/11 attacks - much as in the days after Tim McVeigh blew up the Murrah Building - America had the sympathy of the world, and the police and intelligence agencies of even normally hostile nations offered to help us track down and bring to justice its perpetrators.
Muslims all over the world were horrified at the actions of one of their own, a fundamentalist turned criminal and murderer.
Mullah Omar of Afghanistan's Taliban first offered to arrest bin Laden and turn him over to us (Washington Post, Page 1, October 29, 2001, "Diplomats Met With Taliban On Bin Laden" by Ottaway and Stephens) and then made an explicit offer to arrest Bin Laden and try him for the crime of 9/11 (CNN, October 7, 2001, "US Rejects Taliban Offer To Try Bin Laden"; The Guardian, October 14, 2001, "Bush Rejects Taliban Offer To Hand Bin Laden Over").
It would have been so easy for Bush to accept Omar's offer, which had resulted, according to the Post, in over 20 diplomatic meetings and negotiations. The Justice Department could have arrested Bin Laden like they did McVeigh, helped the Taliban dismantle Bin Laden's training camps and track down their attendees and sponsors, and launch an international effort to disassemble and render impotent al-Qaeda.
It probably could have been done in a year or less, given the intensity of the worldwide empathy for citizens of America and the many other nations whose people died in the World Trade Center. Over 5000 American soldiers would still be alive, and tens of thousands would not have lost arms, legs, and eyes. Hundreds of thousands - possibly over a million - innocent Afghans and Iraqis would still be alive.
But Karl Rove knew that George W. Bush had a problem, and saw in bin Laden the solution. And didn't much give a damn what it would mean to American Muslims.
Bush had not defeated Al Gore fair and square, and was seen by most Americans as a spoiler, an illegitimate leader. As soon as the details of his proposed "supply side" voodoo economics hit the press in the first months of his presidency, the markets went into a nosedive.
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Posted by: thekidde on Nov 12, 2009 6:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: piewackett on Nov 12, 2009 7:57 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: yellow on Nov 12, 2009 10:07 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are over 3,500 Muslims in the US Armed Services. Hasan was a bad apple. He doesn't represent most Muslims. Most Muslims are loyal Americans who serve their country. They would never do what Hasan did. To stigmatize all Muslims and make them enemies of the state would be a mistake of monumental proportions. Honkey, of course, would get this and should probably be banned along with the other bigot, Prophit0.
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Posted by: wwittman on Nov 12, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
or that his extreme "religious" views ARE what drove him to murder?
I must have missed Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Malkin, et al on this; let alone Cheney, Bush, Palin, McCain and so on
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Posted by: Natasha_W on Nov 12, 2009 2:44 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The REAL COWARDS are the REPUBLICANS who sent the young men and women to Iraq to fight a unnecessary war so Dubya could have his wish to be a war President!
Nuff Said!
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Posted by: Bibsisis on Nov 12, 2009 7:17 PM
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Posted by: orwellturns on Nov 13, 2009 1:23 AM
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 12, 2009 2:58 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: When good is choreographed to appear
Posted by: Beepath
» bin laden is a media gimmick, a distraction
Posted by: weathered
» RE: bin laden is a media gimmick, a distraction
Posted by: yellow
» Lets ask Larry Silverstein in a court of law
Posted by: weathered
» Weather your a one trick pony..
Posted by: EncinoM
» Silverstein had the means and motive
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Silverstein had the means and motive...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Lets ask Larry Silverstein in a court of law
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Lets ask Larry Silverstein in a court of law
Posted by: weathered
» If bldg. 7 wasn't already wired how was it "pulled" ?
Posted by: weathered
» Answer the question ?
Posted by: weathered
» You don't deserve a response, Herr Streicher.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Why do you people need for the WTC to be brought down by explosives.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Answer the question ?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Answer the question ?
Posted by: weathered
» RE: When good is choreographed to appear
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Emmories on Nov 12, 2009 3:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: George's 777 Days
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: jdlark on Nov 12, 2009 4:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: taxidave
» No more "wacked" than the xtian right wing. Religions suck.
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: jdorsey
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: yellow
» RE:Sounds like somebody hates the right wing.. AND thoroughly, carefully, details and explains, WHY!
Posted by: blurider
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: franklyspanking on Nov 12, 2009 4:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obviously, the republicans are to blame. And Pharaoh.
You status quo morons are killing us...perhaps your new favorite domestic terrorist went rogue because he bought into that bullsh*t hope and change line your Chumpion of the Status Quo trick pony was peddling? A bit of bait and (predictably) switch never hurt anyone, did it?
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» RE: I burned my grilled cheese sandwich last night, despite the fact...
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: sunnywater on Nov 12, 2009 5:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both of the last two elections were conceded by the Democratic presidential candidate. The 2004 election was handed to George Bush while votes were still being counted.
The 2000 election was contested to the Supreme Court, it was ultimately conceded to Bush "for the good of the country."
Collusion?
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» What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: MT512
» RE: What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: scheherezade on Nov 12, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does the author know? Has he personally interviewed "the majority of the world's Muslims?"
Has he read the many Muslim religious writings that explicity advocate Hasan's actions? Does he understand them?
By denying Hasan's own responsibility for his vicious, religion-grounded actions this cartoonish article is a gift to conservatives that affirms "liberal" inability to focus on "personal responsibility."
Perhaps one day Alternet will take a critical eye to the words and actions of the "majority of the world's Muslims," including those in America, instead of idealizing their motives as "just like ours."
If groups of color, Hispanics, etc. anywhere in the world were oppressed as women under the Taliban were, people like Hartmann would be all over it. But an ideology that specifically advocates the torture and abuse of half the global population...nary a word. Pretty gutless.
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» RE: Unbelievable -- what a fool
Posted by: jdorsey
» No one actually said that Hasan wasn't responsible for what he did at Fort Hood...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Unbelievable -- what a fool
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Unbelievable -- what a fool
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 12, 2009 5:27 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: 911 was a coup d'etat
Posted by: weathered
» The theft of the 2000 election was the Coup d'etat.
Posted by: Karlh
» RE: The theft of the 2000 election was the Coup d'etat.
Posted by: m/r
» RE: 911 was a coup d'etat
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: I DO blame Bush, and always have...
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Nov 12, 2009 5:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By the way in the case of Ireland, Irish men where fighting for their freedom from institutionalized sectarianism and many more abuses by a foreign power.
One man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter.
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» RE: Caesar777
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: bigbrother on Nov 12, 2009 5:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone on the left checked poll rating lately.. the left is shooting itself in the foot and will lose , AGAIN, the large majority they have in congress - BECAUSE, of their inability to look at problems realistically and develop realistic solutions.
How about this tragedy is a result of the politically correctness in this nation that seems to have put blinders on our government - we are at war with MUSLIM extremists - MUSLIMS in the military is like a wolf guarding the hens - in their eyes, it's Islam first and America a distanct last!
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» RE: Too funny
Posted by: jdorsey
» Learn to fucking write
Posted by: youngturk321
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 12, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» ...oh I get it -- the Jews are the real demon! (not)
Posted by: old lefty
» In case you're new here lefty, weathered only attacks Israel. Her rant gets very predictable
Posted by: yellow
» Israel (Mossad) and CIA were primary orchestrators...
Posted by: whole2th
» RE: Israel (Mossad) and CIA were primary orchestrators...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Israel's gifts to America
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: melpol on Nov 12, 2009 6:01 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Loners Must Be Watched
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: Richardsievert on Nov 12, 2009 6:40 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"To try to open the passage way so that love'
Can have a simple needed thing called air. This soldier was choking and no one was there to see that it was bushes fault in deed. I am and average American I quit paying for my auto insurance because it is one of the robot's that feeds the matrix' And i don't care anymore what i am called for what i believe and if i cannot pick my children up from school because i go to jail for it. Soon there will a jail for them that you cannot see.
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» RE: 'No"
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: McGovern72! on Nov 12, 2009 7:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: AlterNet tripe
Posted by: Blacktiger
» RE: AlterNet tripe
Posted by: mn
» RE: AlterNet tripe
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: greenferret on Nov 12, 2009 7:14 AM
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Posted by: jdorsey on Nov 12, 2009 7:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
Posted by: djnoll
» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
Posted by: jdorsey
» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
Posted by: sunnywater
» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: teddy on Nov 12, 2009 8:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather, the hero must overcome the larger-than-life enemy. That's how he becomes larger than life. As well, he discovers resources within himself he did not know he had.
By this standard, Obama is a pathetic fizzle, a wet firecracker.
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Posted by: piewackett on Nov 12, 2009 8:07 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Nov 12, 2009 8:16 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Please stop the divide & conquer propaganda!
Posted by: chetdude
» RE: Please stop the divide & conquer propaganda!
Posted by: mn
» RE: Please stop the divide & conquer propaganda!
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: geezjan on Nov 12, 2009 8:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And let's not even get into the tens of thousands of Iraqi children that died because of Clinton's eight years of embargo and bombing of Iraq.
Bush was a criminal. But that doesn't make Clinton and Obama innocent. They're simply criminals who can speak English well.
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» RE: It's Obama's fault, too
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: whole2th on Nov 12, 2009 8:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There were multiple shooters.
What happened at Fort Hood is likely a mutiny with the perpetrators -- assuming they are really the ones who lash out -- suffering from profound psychological pain as oppressed members of the Army that sought to denigrate and control their lives by intense pressure (through brutalization in dehumanization, like in the film Full Metal Jacket) to shut up and serve "honorably" in prosecuting the war (Peace Through Superior Firepower) regardless of the moral question of war in objection -- the concealed motives and lies about the real reason for continued occupation and exploitation of Afghanistan. We know better because the Internet have blown the lid on the real motives -- Euroasian oil and natural gas and imperialistic drive to contain Iran and other hostile nations designated "existential threat" to Zionist regime of Israel and U.S. interests.
Again, the shadow government with a fawning Zionist-controlled mass media puts out the 'lone gunman' propaganda to attempt to put a lid on the mutiny. As icing on the cake, the 'lone gunman' is one of the boogey men: Islamic radicals.
We are catching on to the big lies more quickly Judgement is soon to be upon the real terrorists of the world. Guitar Bill and Encino should reflect upon the fate of their bosses.
.
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» RE: Ft. Hood was a mutiny involving multiple shooters
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Who would of thunk it
Posted by: EncinoM
» AlterNet trolls Encino and GuitarBill
Posted by: whole2th
» I love when a poster proves my point...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Encino seems stuck in middle school pettiness and ridicule
Posted by: whole2th
» "...evidence"? You're a laugh a minute, WholeCracker.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: ncino seems stuck in middle school pettiness and ridicule
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I love when a poster proves my point...
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: AlterNet trolls Encino and GuitarBill
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: Blacktiger on Nov 12, 2009 10:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finding and killing Osama Bin Laden is a *blind*.
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» RE: OMG! Give us a break!!!
Posted by: jdorsey
» RE: OMG! Give us a break!!!
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: OMG! Give us a break!!!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: dada on Nov 12, 2009 11:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American politics has been under banker-corporate-Israeli control for almost a century.
If Al Gore had been president,nothing would be different - except we'd have had our first Israeli president (Lieberman) after they knocked-off Gore. (Which is probably why Gore didn't even try to fight the stolen election).
Wake up, people.
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» RE: rediculous
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: rediculous
Posted by: dada
» RE: rediculous/that you don't get it,
Posted by: orwellturns
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Posted by: marine130103 on Nov 12, 2009 11:38 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under the logic of liberals who claim that Bush was asleep at the wheel on 9/11 then blame for Ft. Hood lies clearly with Obama.
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» RE: Drug Screens
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: talldarkangelic on Nov 12, 2009 11:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mainly, we allowed Bush and his cabal get away with stealing both his elections, then we allowed his enablers in both parties to enact his agenda of tax cuts for the rich, complete deregulation and the rest of that ridiculous, Rand-Greenspan-Friedman theory of "government is bad".
And now, we're standing back again as the same corporate interests are hijacking the debate on health care, climate change and economic policy, this time with the Democrats in charge.
Bush may have pulled the trigger, but we gave him the weapon.
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» RE: Unfortunately...
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: billybookworm on Nov 12, 2009 12:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Augustus_818 on Nov 12, 2009 5:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't get that big promotion, it's George Bush's fault.
My girlfriend doesn't fuck me in the evening, why she must be fucking George Bush.
All my cocaine's gone. Goddamnit! It's gotta be George Bush.
I hate the guy as much as anyone else. But I gotta tell ya the Right and Left in this country are starting to sound like one of those couples you see on Jerry Springer.
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» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
Posted by: suzisrealtor
» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
Posted by: flirt
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Nov 12, 2009 6:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cockroaches deserve air much more than george bush,
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Cockroaches, WOW!
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
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Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Nov 13, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess it was inevitable that this would happen. For many of today’s young the only political hierarchy that they have known in their adulthood is the Busch administration. And it's much easier to criticize decisions of others than to find viable solutions.
I have had the fortune and misfortune to live though the Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Busch SR., Clinton, Busch Jr., and Now Obama administrations. I can recall admirable achievements as well as dismal failures from all of these administrations.
The trick is to move on, to look ahead, and to PROGRESS. If you have identified recent failures through hindsight then use that information to facilitate solutions with foresight. But to live in the past and constantly rehash failure is a monument to futility.
I think we can all agree that there is nothing sadder than an old 60s hippie who still sits around and cries about Nixon. Don't be the modern day equivalent of that.
I don't pretend to know that much about the writer of this piece, but it seems his tool box for writing about current issues contains only a hammer, and so every issue becomes a nail. It’s a very shallow response.
Personally, I think this guy was an unstable coward and a jihadist wannabe. He has become what most would regard as a terrorist by committing what most would regard as an act of terrorism. It was his demented "blaze of glory" exit, and he screwed it up by missing his exit. He is a murderer, nothing more or less.
However, to try to pin this on any single person, administration, ideology, or religion is ridiculous, it’s much too complex an issue.
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Posted by: marat on Nov 13, 2009 6:19 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly, "Thom" cannot think very well. This story has no merit. The thought behind his dismal attempt to be impressive is stupid and childish. It insults the intelligence of any reader, liberal or conservative.
Additionally, "Thom" has probably written some of the postings which praise him, or had his wife do it. The guy is a very tiny joke.
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Posted by: marat on Nov 13, 2009 6:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Be that as it may, it was the Thom Hartmann Show that Hasan heard on the air. Listening to it for at least two weeks in a row had the effect of driving him completely insane. This guy who spelled his name most pretentiously said the most illogical things. One day, while arguing furiously with some phony libertarian, "Thom" screamed out, "FREEDOM IS ANARCHY!"
Now we all know that freedom is not anarchy. And so did Hasan. But after listening for two whole weeks to the ravings of the silly lunatic "Thom," Hasan lost it.
That's when he pulled out his weapons and even though he never shot a pistol before he managed to kill many men who although they had fought in battles before, somehow were powerless to take down Hasan.
They say that Hasan cried out before he started shooting. Something in Arabic, whatever that phrase is that gentle peace loving Muslims shout out before they do something very bad although it escapes me at the moment what the phrase is because Hasan never said it.
What he shouted was, "Thom Is A Moron!" People just thought he said the other thing.
Then he started his killing spree. But a woman just like Jessica Lynch saved the entire Ft. Hood world of zillions of big strong men who lived together in homoerotic soldierliness. Only we found out recently that wasn't entirely accurate. Just like Jessica Lynch, the story about the female cop being a hero was a lie.
In fact, the only truthful about the Ft. Hood Massacre is that it was Thom Hartmann's fault.
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Posted by: Romans1 on Nov 13, 2009 9:46 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hate Crime
Posted by: joe2171
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Posted by: joe2171 on Nov 14, 2009 9:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he, Hasan, apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is burned down your throat.
And I said to the psychiatrist, but this could be a very interesting informational session, right? Where he's educating everybody about the Koran. He said but what disturbed everybody was that Hasan seemed to believe these things. And actually, a Muslim in the audience, a psychiatrist, raised his hand and said, excuse me. But I'm a Muslim and I do not believe these things in the Koran, and then I don't believe what you say the Koran says. And then Hasan didn't say, well, I'm just giving you one point of view. He basically just stared the guy down.
According to this, Hasan made four assertions about the Koran:
1. "If you don't believe, you are condemned to hell";
2. If you don't believe, "your head is cut off";
3. If you don't believe, "you're set on fire";
4. If you don't believe, "burning oil is burned down your throat."
Then a Muslim in the audience confronted Hasan: " I don't believe what you say the Koran says."
Well, what the Koran says is a matter for objective verification. Just open the book and read it. Does it say what Hasan said it says, or does it not?
1. "If you don't believe, you are condemned to hell"
"Lo! Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers, all together, into hell" -- Koran 4:140
"Lo! hell verily is all around the disbelievers." -- Koran 9:49
"Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode." -- Koran 9:68
"O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end." -- Koran 9:73
And there are many others.
2. If you don't believe, "your head is cut off"
"Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): 'I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.'" -- Koran 8:12
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks..." -- Koran 47:4
3. If you don't believe, "you're set on fire"
"Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire" -- Koran 33:64
"And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" -- Koran 48:13
"Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers manacles and carcans and a raging fire." -- Koran 76:4
There are many others.
4. If you don't believe, "burning oil is burned down your throat."
"And say: 'The truth is from your Lord.' Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. -- Koran 18:29
"Surely the tree of the Zaqqum is the food of the sinful. Like dregs of oil, it shall boil in (their) bellies,like the boiling of hot water." -- Koran 44:43-46
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Posted by: jacklang0001 on Nov 17, 2009 5:47 AM
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have some cheap things ...
nike shoes, fashion clothes ;brand handbags ,wallet ...
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any size available
accept the paypal
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Posted by: thekidde on Nov 12, 2009 6:41 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: piewackett on Nov 12, 2009 7:57 AM
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Posted by: yellow on Nov 12, 2009 10:07 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There are over 3,500 Muslims in the US Armed Services. Hasan was a bad apple. He doesn't represent most Muslims. Most Muslims are loyal Americans who serve their country. They would never do what Hasan did. To stigmatize all Muslims and make them enemies of the state would be a mistake of monumental proportions. Honkey, of course, would get this and should probably be banned along with the other bigot, Prophit0.
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Posted by: wwittman on Nov 12, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
or that his extreme "religious" views ARE what drove him to murder?
I must have missed Hannity, Limbaugh, Beck, Malkin, et al on this; let alone Cheney, Bush, Palin, McCain and so on
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Posted by: Natasha_W on Nov 12, 2009 2:44 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The REAL COWARDS are the REPUBLICANS who sent the young men and women to Iraq to fight a unnecessary war so Dubya could have his wish to be a war President!
Nuff Said!
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Posted by: Bibsisis on Nov 12, 2009 7:17 PM
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Posted by: orwellturns on Nov 13, 2009 1:23 AM
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 12, 2009 2:58 AM
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» RE: When good is choreographed to appear
Posted by: Beepath
» bin laden is a media gimmick, a distraction
Posted by: weathered
» RE: bin laden is a media gimmick, a distraction
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» Lets ask Larry Silverstein in a court of law
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» Weather your a one trick pony..
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» Silverstein had the means and motive
Posted by: weathered
» RE: Silverstein had the means and motive...
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» RE: Lets ask Larry Silverstein in a court of law
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Lets ask Larry Silverstein in a court of law
Posted by: weathered
» If bldg. 7 wasn't already wired how was it "pulled" ?
Posted by: weathered
» Answer the question ?
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» You don't deserve a response, Herr Streicher.
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» RE: Why do you people need for the WTC to be brought down by explosives.
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» RE: Answer the question ?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Answer the question ?
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» RE: When good is choreographed to appear
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Posted by: Emmories on Nov 12, 2009 3:35 AM
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» RE: George's 777 Days
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: jdlark on Nov 12, 2009 4:39 AM
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» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: taxidave
» No more "wacked" than the xtian right wing. Religions suck.
Posted by: thekidde
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: jdorsey
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: yellow
» RE:Sounds like somebody hates the right wing.. AND thoroughly, carefully, details and explains, WHY!
Posted by: blurider
» RE: Are you serious?
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: franklyspanking on Nov 12, 2009 4:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obviously, the republicans are to blame. And Pharaoh.
You status quo morons are killing us...perhaps your new favorite domestic terrorist went rogue because he bought into that bullsh*t hope and change line your Chumpion of the Status Quo trick pony was peddling? A bit of bait and (predictably) switch never hurt anyone, did it?
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» RE: I burned my grilled cheese sandwich last night, despite the fact...
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: sunnywater on Nov 12, 2009 5:15 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Both of the last two elections were conceded by the Democratic presidential candidate. The 2004 election was handed to George Bush while votes were still being counted.
The 2000 election was contested to the Supreme Court, it was ultimately conceded to Bush "for the good of the country."
Collusion?
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» What an insult to Paraguay
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» RE: What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: kellysgarden
» RE: What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: MT512
» RE: What an insult to Paraguay
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: scheherezade on Nov 12, 2009 5:17 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How does the author know? Has he personally interviewed "the majority of the world's Muslims?"
Has he read the many Muslim religious writings that explicity advocate Hasan's actions? Does he understand them?
By denying Hasan's own responsibility for his vicious, religion-grounded actions this cartoonish article is a gift to conservatives that affirms "liberal" inability to focus on "personal responsibility."
Perhaps one day Alternet will take a critical eye to the words and actions of the "majority of the world's Muslims," including those in America, instead of idealizing their motives as "just like ours."
If groups of color, Hispanics, etc. anywhere in the world were oppressed as women under the Taliban were, people like Hartmann would be all over it. But an ideology that specifically advocates the torture and abuse of half the global population...nary a word. Pretty gutless.
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» RE: Unbelievable -- what a fool
Posted by: jdorsey
» No one actually said that Hasan wasn't responsible for what he did at Fort Hood...
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Unbelievable -- what a fool
Posted by: MT512
» RE: Unbelievable -- what a fool
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Posted by: moloko velocet on Nov 12, 2009 5:27 AM
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» RE: 911 was a coup d'etat
Posted by: weathered
» The theft of the 2000 election was the Coup d'etat.
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» RE: The theft of the 2000 election was the Coup d'etat.
Posted by: m/r
» RE: 911 was a coup d'etat
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: I DO blame Bush, and always have...
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Caesar77 on Nov 12, 2009 5:39 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
By the way in the case of Ireland, Irish men where fighting for their freedom from institutionalized sectarianism and many more abuses by a foreign power.
One man's terrorist, is another man's freedom fighter.
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» RE: Caesar777
Posted by: richholland
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Posted by: bigbrother on Nov 12, 2009 5:50 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Has anyone on the left checked poll rating lately.. the left is shooting itself in the foot and will lose , AGAIN, the large majority they have in congress - BECAUSE, of their inability to look at problems realistically and develop realistic solutions.
How about this tragedy is a result of the politically correctness in this nation that seems to have put blinders on our government - we are at war with MUSLIM extremists - MUSLIMS in the military is like a wolf guarding the hens - in their eyes, it's Islam first and America a distanct last!
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» RE: Too funny
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» Learn to fucking write
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Posted by: weathered on Nov 12, 2009 5:56 AM
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» ...oh I get it -- the Jews are the real demon! (not)
Posted by: old lefty
» In case you're new here lefty, weathered only attacks Israel. Her rant gets very predictable
Posted by: yellow
» Israel (Mossad) and CIA were primary orchestrators...
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» RE: Israel (Mossad) and CIA were primary orchestrators...
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» RE: Israel's gifts to America
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Posted by: melpol on Nov 12, 2009 6:01 AM
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» RE: Loners Must Be Watched
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Posted by: Richardsievert on Nov 12, 2009 6:40 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"To try to open the passage way so that love'
Can have a simple needed thing called air. This soldier was choking and no one was there to see that it was bushes fault in deed. I am and average American I quit paying for my auto insurance because it is one of the robot's that feeds the matrix' And i don't care anymore what i am called for what i believe and if i cannot pick my children up from school because i go to jail for it. Soon there will a jail for them that you cannot see.
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» RE: 'No"
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Posted by: McGovern72! on Nov 12, 2009 7:11 AM
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» RE: AlterNet tripe
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» RE: AlterNet tripe
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» RE: AlterNet tripe
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Posted by: greenferret on Nov 12, 2009 7:14 AM
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Posted by: jdorsey on Nov 12, 2009 7:34 AM
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» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
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» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
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» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
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» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
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» RE: Thom Hartmann - Thank You for your wisdom
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Posted by: teddy on Nov 12, 2009 8:05 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Rather, the hero must overcome the larger-than-life enemy. That's how he becomes larger than life. As well, he discovers resources within himself he did not know he had.
By this standard, Obama is a pathetic fizzle, a wet firecracker.
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Posted by: piewackett on Nov 12, 2009 8:07 AM
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Nov 12, 2009 8:16 AM
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» RE: Please stop the divide & conquer propaganda!
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» RE: Please stop the divide & conquer propaganda!
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» RE: Please stop the divide & conquer propaganda!
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: geezjan on Nov 12, 2009 8:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And let's not even get into the tens of thousands of Iraqi children that died because of Clinton's eight years of embargo and bombing of Iraq.
Bush was a criminal. But that doesn't make Clinton and Obama innocent. They're simply criminals who can speak English well.
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» RE: It's Obama's fault, too
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: whole2th on Nov 12, 2009 8:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There were multiple shooters.
What happened at Fort Hood is likely a mutiny with the perpetrators -- assuming they are really the ones who lash out -- suffering from profound psychological pain as oppressed members of the Army that sought to denigrate and control their lives by intense pressure (through brutalization in dehumanization, like in the film Full Metal Jacket) to shut up and serve "honorably" in prosecuting the war (Peace Through Superior Firepower) regardless of the moral question of war in objection -- the concealed motives and lies about the real reason for continued occupation and exploitation of Afghanistan. We know better because the Internet have blown the lid on the real motives -- Euroasian oil and natural gas and imperialistic drive to contain Iran and other hostile nations designated "existential threat" to Zionist regime of Israel and U.S. interests.
Again, the shadow government with a fawning Zionist-controlled mass media puts out the 'lone gunman' propaganda to attempt to put a lid on the mutiny. As icing on the cake, the 'lone gunman' is one of the boogey men: Islamic radicals.
We are catching on to the big lies more quickly Judgement is soon to be upon the real terrorists of the world. Guitar Bill and Encino should reflect upon the fate of their bosses.
.
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» RE: Ft. Hood was a mutiny involving multiple shooters
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Who would of thunk it
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» AlterNet trolls Encino and GuitarBill
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» I love when a poster proves my point...
Posted by: EncinoM
» Encino seems stuck in middle school pettiness and ridicule
Posted by: whole2th
» "...evidence"? You're a laugh a minute, WholeCracker.
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» RE: ncino seems stuck in middle school pettiness and ridicule
Posted by: yellow
» RE: I love when a poster proves my point...
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: AlterNet trolls Encino and GuitarBill
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Posted by: Blacktiger on Nov 12, 2009 10:31 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Finding and killing Osama Bin Laden is a *blind*.
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» RE: OMG! Give us a break!!!
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» RE: OMG! Give us a break!!!
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: OMG! Give us a break!!!
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: dada on Nov 12, 2009 11:17 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
American politics has been under banker-corporate-Israeli control for almost a century.
If Al Gore had been president,nothing would be different - except we'd have had our first Israeli president (Lieberman) after they knocked-off Gore. (Which is probably why Gore didn't even try to fight the stolen election).
Wake up, people.
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» RE: rediculous
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» RE: rediculous
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» RE: rediculous/that you don't get it,
Posted by: orwellturns
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Posted by: marine130103 on Nov 12, 2009 11:38 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Under the logic of liberals who claim that Bush was asleep at the wheel on 9/11 then blame for Ft. Hood lies clearly with Obama.
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» RE: Drug Screens
Posted by: VZEQICVA
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Posted by: talldarkangelic on Nov 12, 2009 11:46 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Mainly, we allowed Bush and his cabal get away with stealing both his elections, then we allowed his enablers in both parties to enact his agenda of tax cuts for the rich, complete deregulation and the rest of that ridiculous, Rand-Greenspan-Friedman theory of "government is bad".
And now, we're standing back again as the same corporate interests are hijacking the debate on health care, climate change and economic policy, this time with the Democrats in charge.
Bush may have pulled the trigger, but we gave him the weapon.
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» RE: Unfortunately...
Posted by: Bibsisis
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Posted by: billybookworm on Nov 12, 2009 12:04 PM
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Posted by: Augustus_818 on Nov 12, 2009 5:52 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't get that big promotion, it's George Bush's fault.
My girlfriend doesn't fuck me in the evening, why she must be fucking George Bush.
All my cocaine's gone. Goddamnit! It's gotta be George Bush.
I hate the guy as much as anyone else. But I gotta tell ya the Right and Left in this country are starting to sound like one of those couples you see on Jerry Springer.
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» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
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» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
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» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
Posted by: suzisrealtor
» RE: I think I'll take a page out of the left...
Posted by: flirt
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Nov 12, 2009 6:52 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Cockroaches deserve air much more than george bush,
Posted by: Bibsisis
» RE: Cockroaches, WOW!
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
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Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Nov 13, 2009 6:03 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess it was inevitable that this would happen. For many of today’s young the only political hierarchy that they have known in their adulthood is the Busch administration. And it's much easier to criticize decisions of others than to find viable solutions.
I have had the fortune and misfortune to live though the Kennedy, Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Busch SR., Clinton, Busch Jr., and Now Obama administrations. I can recall admirable achievements as well as dismal failures from all of these administrations.
The trick is to move on, to look ahead, and to PROGRESS. If you have identified recent failures through hindsight then use that information to facilitate solutions with foresight. But to live in the past and constantly rehash failure is a monument to futility.
I think we can all agree that there is nothing sadder than an old 60s hippie who still sits around and cries about Nixon. Don't be the modern day equivalent of that.
I don't pretend to know that much about the writer of this piece, but it seems his tool box for writing about current issues contains only a hammer, and so every issue becomes a nail. It’s a very shallow response.
Personally, I think this guy was an unstable coward and a jihadist wannabe. He has become what most would regard as a terrorist by committing what most would regard as an act of terrorism. It was his demented "blaze of glory" exit, and he screwed it up by missing his exit. He is a murderer, nothing more or less.
However, to try to pin this on any single person, administration, ideology, or religion is ridiculous, it’s much too complex an issue.
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Posted by: marat on Nov 13, 2009 6:19 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Clearly, "Thom" cannot think very well. This story has no merit. The thought behind his dismal attempt to be impressive is stupid and childish. It insults the intelligence of any reader, liberal or conservative.
Additionally, "Thom" has probably written some of the postings which praise him, or had his wife do it. The guy is a very tiny joke.
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Posted by: marat on Nov 13, 2009 6:48 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Be that as it may, it was the Thom Hartmann Show that Hasan heard on the air. Listening to it for at least two weeks in a row had the effect of driving him completely insane. This guy who spelled his name most pretentiously said the most illogical things. One day, while arguing furiously with some phony libertarian, "Thom" screamed out, "FREEDOM IS ANARCHY!"
Now we all know that freedom is not anarchy. And so did Hasan. But after listening for two whole weeks to the ravings of the silly lunatic "Thom," Hasan lost it.
That's when he pulled out his weapons and even though he never shot a pistol before he managed to kill many men who although they had fought in battles before, somehow were powerless to take down Hasan.
They say that Hasan cried out before he started shooting. Something in Arabic, whatever that phrase is that gentle peace loving Muslims shout out before they do something very bad although it escapes me at the moment what the phrase is because Hasan never said it.
What he shouted was, "Thom Is A Moron!" People just thought he said the other thing.
Then he started his killing spree. But a woman just like Jessica Lynch saved the entire Ft. Hood world of zillions of big strong men who lived together in homoerotic soldierliness. Only we found out recently that wasn't entirely accurate. Just like Jessica Lynch, the story about the female cop being a hero was a lie.
In fact, the only truthful about the Ft. Hood Massacre is that it was Thom Hartmann's fault.
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Posted by: Romans1 on Nov 13, 2009 9:46 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Hate Crime
Posted by: joe2171
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Posted by: joe2171 on Nov 14, 2009 9:35 AM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They have grand rounds, right? They, you know, dozens of medical staff come into an auditorium, and somebody stands at the podium at the front and gives a lecture about some academic issue, you know, what drugs to prescribe for what condition. But instead of that, he, Hasan, apparently gave a long lecture on the Koran and talked about how if you don't believe, you are condemned to hell. Your head is cut off. You're set on fire. Burning oil is burned down your throat.
And I said to the psychiatrist, but this could be a very interesting informational session, right? Where he's educating everybody about the Koran. He said but what disturbed everybody was that Hasan seemed to believe these things. And actually, a Muslim in the audience, a psychiatrist, raised his hand and said, excuse me. But I'm a Muslim and I do not believe these things in the Koran, and then I don't believe what you say the Koran says. And then Hasan didn't say, well, I'm just giving you one point of view. He basically just stared the guy down.
According to this, Hasan made four assertions about the Koran:
1. "If you don't believe, you are condemned to hell";
2. If you don't believe, "your head is cut off";
3. If you don't believe, "you're set on fire";
4. If you don't believe, "burning oil is burned down your throat."
Then a Muslim in the audience confronted Hasan: " I don't believe what you say the Koran says."
Well, what the Koran says is a matter for objective verification. Just open the book and read it. Does it say what Hasan said it says, or does it not?
1. "If you don't believe, you are condemned to hell"
"Lo! Allah will gather hypocrites and disbelievers, all together, into hell" -- Koran 4:140
"Lo! hell verily is all around the disbelievers." -- Koran 9:49
"Allah promiseth the hypocrites, both men and women, and the disbelievers fire of hell for their abode." -- Koran 9:68
"O Prophet! Strive against the disbelievers and the hypocrites! Be harsh with them. Their ultimate abode is hell, a hapless journey's end." -- Koran 9:73
And there are many others.
2. If you don't believe, "your head is cut off"
"Remember thy Lord inspired the angels (with the message): 'I am with you: give firmness to the Believers: I will instil terror into the hearts of the Unbelievers: smite ye above their necks and smite all their finger-tips off them.'" -- Koran 8:12
"Therefore, when ye meet the Unbelievers (in fight), smite at their necks..." -- Koran 47:4
3. If you don't believe, "you're set on fire"
"Verily Allah has cursed the Unbelievers and prepared for them a Blazing Fire" -- Koran 33:64
"And if any believe not in Allah and His Messenger, We have prepared, for those who reject Allah, a Blazing Fire!" -- Koran 48:13
"Lo! We have prepared for disbelievers manacles and carcans and a raging fire." -- Koran 76:4
There are many others.
4. If you don't believe, "burning oil is burned down your throat."
"And say: 'The truth is from your Lord.' Then whosoever wills, let him believe, and whosoever wills, let him disbelieve. Verily, We have prepared for the Zalimun (polytheists and wrong-doers, etc.), a Fire whose walls will be surrounding them (disbelievers in the Oneness of Allah). And if they ask for help (relief, water, etc.) they will be granted water like boiling oil, that will scald their faces. -- Koran 18:29
"Surely the tree of the Zaqqum is the food of the sinful. Like dregs of oil, it shall boil in (their) bellies,like the boiling of hot water." -- Koran 44:43-46
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