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Rights and Liberties

CIA Kept Prisoners Alive to Keep Torturing Them, Lawyer Says

By Muriel Kane, Raw Story. Posted October 28, 2009.


Human rights lawyer John Sifton says the CIA tried to prevent detainees from dying, "which might sound humanitarian, but was kind of sickening."
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According to human rights lawyer John Sifton, the CIA tortured detainees so severely that it had to take measures to keep them alive so they could continue being tortured.

Sifton, who is currently the director of One World Research, explained to an interviewer for Russia Today that there was both a CIA detention program and a military detention program, which was modeled on that created by the CIA.

"The CIA program was by far the most secretive," Sifton noted. "That's the one that only had a few dozen detainees at any given time -- but it's the one that saw the biggest abuses, the most serious forms of torture."

"In the military, there was actually a larger number of deaths than with the CIA," he continued. "The CIA engaged in some horrendous abuses, but they appear to have taken precautions to have actually prevented people from dying -- which might sound humanitarian, but in fact was kind of sickening."

"The military wasn't so careful," according to Sifton. "The military subjected a lot of people to the same techniques, but without the precautions, and as a result a large number of detainees in military custody died. … While they didn't use the worst forms of torture, like waterboarding, they often used sleep deprivation, forced standing, stress positions. … When you combine these techniques … they cause excruciating pain … and the military used them on thousands and thousands of detainees."

Sifton commented that what he found most shocking was "the cold, clinical fashion in which they went about designing the program. They didn't want to commit outright physical torture … so they went to psychologists and lawyers and they tried to design a program which was, in their minds, legal. … They tried to make it legal and safe, but they just made it even more grotesque."

Now, Sifton says, "Our information is that the Obama administration essentially put the CIA out of business with respect to detaining people. They no longer have their own secret prison program." Because nobody has been held accountable, however, and much of what went on is still being concealed, it "causes a moral culpability issue worldwide. President Obama may have closed the prisons and ended the programs, but … it creates a stain that has yet to be cleansed."


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Accountable?
Posted by: jleman on Oct 28, 2009 12:50 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's see? If a politician gives the orders to torture, and you don't go after the one giving the orders - sounds exactly as the catch 22 under the UCMJ. If the higher authority is going to give an illegal order, will you face a firing squad for refusing to follow the order, or be tried for following the order? You see, it's always the person holding the lower hand which gets screwed. One law for all? Don't think so.
As there is no cure for "stupid", and we elect too many of them to leadership positions, maybe we should just execute them at the end of their term limits? Or, how about sending the "hawks" as cannon fodder? It's called putting action behind your words.
When we had a commander-in-chief who went AWOL and lost their flying status as a pilot because of booze and drugs - without ever facing any displinary proceedings?? Then we had a hawkish VP who promoted torture and shoot a hunting partner in the face while drunk?? And, we won't prosecute these scum for "any" of the many laws they've broken? What about the innocents they've killed just in torture? Or the ones they killed in an illegal war?
So much for balls. So much for torture. These men had no honor, and yet they execute innocent people in Texas. Cowards who send others to kill and maim. Put the guilty in the jail, and if they believe in capital punishment, let them stand trial for the crimes they committed for their own gain.

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» RE: Accountable? Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Accountable? Posted by: han
gimmie shelter
Posted by: gimmie shelter on Oct 28, 2009 2:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It really is sad when our government goes out of it's way to justify something which they all must have known was in fact unjustifiable. What poor diffusional employees do we have working for Washington? Even the soldiers code says that they do not have to follow an order which is illegal so what part of the system failed.

Was it the lowly soldier who was afraid to question authority, was it authority who was afraid to question even higher authority or is it that we as Americans think that this is OK.

Well this American is ashamed of those both in our military and the CIA who did these crimes in our name. I for one never asked you to. How do you sleep at night and look into the eyes of your children. Do you fool yourself into thinking you did not have a choice? You always had a choice and you decided to become a criminal in my eyes and your children s eyes. Just try asking them when they are old enough to answer you. I doubt the question will ever be asked by you or even brought up. You knew what you were doing and did it anyway.

God save America.

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We discussed the nature of this in church last week
Posted by: Bushmaster on Oct 28, 2009 2:54 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The topic was, 'how to be good without god?'

It came down to empathy and the ability to 'feel'.

One one side there was the 'command' to love God and do all he has commanded. Is it possible to actually 'love' someone who demands it from you and threatens to kill you if you do not tow the line?

Another point of view emerged involving assessing our situation differently. That of not having an authoritarian father over us who demands and commands explicit obedience on pain of death.

The consensus was that no true morality can exist in such a situation. Something like that is akin to torture. There is no 'choice'; 'do it or die' is the 'command'. The religious format is the same as that involved in torture to some extent. 'Confess and you will be set free.'

I think the ability to engage in this kind of activity results from what we think of ourselves as 'people'.

If we think of ourselves as something separate and isolated from everything else we will logically set up fortresses to protect ourselves.

If we think of ourselves in the cosmological evolutionary explanation we know that is not true. We understand that we came fom 'one' the singularity, and that we can be nothing but 'one'. We can, therefore love our neighbor as ourselves. But not in the general consensus of western theological thought.

Two streams of morality and ethics appear from these two points of view.

I think that is the basis of the problem. Perhaps only cosmological evolution can bring about a change.

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CIA FBI and THE 11th Commandments
Posted by: flymulla on Oct 28, 2009 5:50 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A declining dollar and stronger equities spell higher prices for oil. Consider investing in oil firms and refiners to ride the wave.
Eventually USA pays for these playing Monopoly game and landing in jail or wait for your turn after two players Japan China have played
Cold weather's rolling in, and it's time to start cranking up the heaters. But don't use them too liberally--oil prices are poised to shoot upward as the temperature continues to drop.
Last week commenced with crude oil prices teetering at $80 per barrel, breaking away from the $75 summertime average. As of midday Friday, (Oct. 23), crude prices traded at $80.61 at the New York Mercantile Exchange (NYMEX), and according to the Energy Information Administration's Petroleum Navigator, the week delivered the highest prices since last fall.
I thank you
Firozali A. Mulla

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» Jim and Bob and the 8-iron Posted by: eddie torres
Good v evil
Posted by: colinsyme on Oct 29, 2009 2:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
l grew up with my Father, Uncle and his friends all ex military and WW2 veterans and a few of them ex POWs, they were captured, starved, beaten and humiliated by their Japanese tormentors on a daily basis. l used to listen their stories around the camp-fire, usually when they had a beer or two and the idea that torture was used as a means of sadistic pleasure by the camp guards was firmly ingrained in me.

Not all Japs took part indeed some of them were quite kind to their prisoners and clearly didn't subscribe to the "Master-race" thing that white people were sub-human and cowards because they allowed themselves to be captured as most of the officer class guards did. My uncle was one of those who gave evidence after the war which resulted in the release of these guards and the execution of others.

The point l am making is that torture and humiliation serves only one purpose, and that is to strengthen the resolve of those who live through it and who knows, those who took part in this round may have to pay for their crimes some day when politicians decide that there might be votes in it if they hand these people over to the courts.

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Read Jane Mayer's THE DARK SIDE
Posted by: Carol Burns on Oct 29, 2009 5:33 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The book's revelations are astounding, detailing how the authorizations for both the CIA and military torture went all the way to the top, and any naysayer was either fired, bypassed, ridiculed, or resigned in disgust. Of course, Mayer never considers the possibility, even in the light of the heinousness of the torture, whether Bush and Cheney actively aided and abetted the events of 9/11, in fulfillment of the PNAC wish list. Now, Bush says that every day in office brought him "joy". Please write President Obama at WhiteHouse.gov and urge him to open new investigations into torture, 9/11, and the wars in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

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Infinite Evil
Posted by: QQOblivion on Oct 29, 2009 5:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As the first comment notes, while those who tortured people to death in large numbers are walking around free giving interviews on TV, innocent people are being executed in Texas.

Infinite evil was carried out here. Is there anything more evil than torturing a large number of people to death, and using some of the false information derived from that torture to start wars that have killed hundreds of thousands of innocents!?

And I can't help thinking that maybe ALL Americans are responsible, since NO ONE has yet brought Cheney or any of the others involved to justice.

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I don't believe thee torture has stopped,...
Posted by: leafsong1 on Oct 29, 2009 6:26 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...and I won't believe it until torturers are successfully prosecuted. Obama is a torturer in my book.

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Ah, yes; I can see it now
Posted by: willymack on Oct 29, 2009 11:12 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's well known that frog torturer and all around sadistic demento bush, and psycho cheney would just LOVE to torture anybody under any pretense.
I cam imagine them, along with karl rove in his pink tutu and phony "journalist" james guckert, aka jeff gannon or "gay military stud". sitting in a circle, watching a live feed of the torture, and playing with themselves.
To think that President Obama may be allowing this travesty to continue fills me with a forboding dread.
I'd expect it of the bushie degenerates, but NOT FROM HIM.

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this is very STUPID
Posted by: nimrod on Oct 29, 2009 11:13 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
now the CIA and our military has now created about another terrorist. in other words given others another reason to hate .it is common knowledge that torture does not yield credible intell. treat them humanly and they will be surprised at the results, but they are stuck on stupid, as the old saying goes you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar.even Sun Tzu recognized the need to treat your prisoners good.

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not unheard of
Posted by: deang on Oct 31, 2009 1:47 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Keeping people alive only to feel the pain of torture is indeed sick and cruel, and there is a history of it in US-dominated areas like Latin America.

There are numerous reports from Guatemala in particular in which people were tortured with electricity and injected chemicals until they passed out or went into shock and were then injected by military doctors with serums to revive them so they could not escape the pain. Similar reports came in from the right-wing dictatorships of Argentina and Chile during the 70s and 80s, and there are frequent records of CIA officials present in the torture centers.

Americans have been misled into thinking that the torture the US uses consists only of stress positions, sleep deprivation, religious insults, loud music, and sexual humiliation. As bad as those are, there are also numerous reports of people coming out of US prisons like Abu Ghraib and Baghram dead or in comas, with electrical burns and dog bites all over them or with flesh pulverized into mush by beatings. In Latin American records of such things, victims were said to beg to be killed, which is why the torturers began to bring in doctors to deny them even the sanctuary of death.

And the US is behind most of this.

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» RE: not unheard of Posted by: rinthy
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