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Rights and Liberties

Is the U.S. on the Brink of Fascism?

By Sara Robinson, Campaign for America's Future. Posted August 7, 2009.


There are dangerous currents running through America's politics and the way we confront them is crucial.
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When that unholy alliance is made, the third stage -- the transition to full-fledged government fascism -- begins.

The third stage: being there
All through the Bush years, progressive right-wing watchers refused to call it "fascism" because, though we kept looking, we never saw clear signs of a deliberate, committed institutional partnership forming between America's conservative elites and its emerging homegrown brownshirt horde. We caught tantalizing signs of brief flirtations -- passing political alliances, money passing hands, far-right moonbat talking points flying out of the mouths of "mainstream" conservative leaders. But it was all circumstantial, and fairly transitory. The two sides kept a discreet distance from each other, at least in public. What went on behind closed doors, we could only guess. They certainly didn't act like a married couple.

Now, the guessing game is over. We know beyond doubt that the Teabag movement was created out of whole cloth by astroturf groups like Dick Armey's FreedomWorks and Tim Phillips' Americans for Prosperity, with massive media help from FOX News. We see the Birther fracas -- the kind of urban myth-making that should have never made it out of the pages of the National Enquirer -- being openly ratified by Congressional Republicans. We've seen Armey's own professionally-produced field manual that carefully instructs conservative goon squads in the fine art of disrupting the democratic governing process -- and the film of public officials being terrorized and threatened to the point where some of them required armed escorts to leave the building. We've seen Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."

This is the sign we were waiting for -- the one that tells us that yes, kids: we are there now. America's conservative elites have openly thrown in with the country's legions of discontented far right thugs. They have explicitly deputized them and empowered them to act as their enforcement arm on America's streets, sanctioning the physical harassment and intimidation of workers, liberals, and public officials who won't do their political or economic bidding.

This is the catalyzing moment at which honest-to-Hitler fascism begins. It's also our very last chance to stop it.

The fail-safe point
According to Paxton, the forging of this third-stage alliance is the make-or-break moment -- and the worst part of it is that by the time you've arrived at that point, it's probably too late to stop it. From here, it escalates, as minor thuggery turns into beatings, killings, and systematic tagging of certain groups for elimination, all directed by people at the very top of the power structure. After Labor Day, when Democratic senators and representatives go back to Washington, the mobs now being created to harass them will remain to run the same tactics -- escalated and perfected with each new use -- against anyone in town whose color, religion, or politics they don't like. In some places, they're already making notes and taking names.

Where's the danger line? Paxton offers three quick questions that point us straight at it:

1. Are [neo- or protofascisms] becoming rooted as parties that represent major interests and feelings and wield major influence on the political scene?

2. Is the economic or constitutional system in a state of blockage apparently insoluble by existing authorities?

3. Is a rapid political mobilization threatening to escape the control of traditional elites, to the point where they would be tempted to look for tough helpers in order to stay in charge?

By my reckoning, we're three for three. That's too close. Way too close.


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See more stories tagged with: fascism, republican, bush administration, glenn beck, right-wing, fringe

Sara Robinson is a Fellow at the Campaign for America's Future, and a consulting partner with the Cognitive Policy Works in Seattle. One of the few trained social futurists in North America, she has blogged on authoritarian and extremist movements at Orcinus since 2006, and is a founding member of Group News Blog.

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Brown Shirt Fascism vs White Collar Fascism
Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 7, 2009 1:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Fascism should rightly be called Corporatism as it is a merge of state and corporate power." ~ Benito Mussolini

Obama has already delivered government into the arms of the corporatocracy, it wasn't hard, there wasn't much left to be done ... the banksters are now firmly in control and can bring America to its knees any time they want ...

So what we have is Obama's White Collar Fascism run by the banksters, healthcare inc and the Congressional Military Industrial Complex as the Main Stream Media cheerleads or the Brownshirt Fascism as run by the right wing crazies ...

What they have in common are the lies they tell people and their real goal of corporate control of all facets of our lives ... Don't kid yourself both sides are being controlled by the same actors.

Take your pick, it's what they want you to do ... are you a Brown Shirt Fascist or a White Collar Fascist?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» FALSE FLAG ALERT Posted by: telluride
» WHAT IS NEO-FASCISM? Posted by: citizenjoe
» RE: FALSE FLAG ALERT Posted by: Jeremiahiii
» RE: FALSE FLAG ALERT Posted by: racetoinfinity
» DAMN IT!!!!! WTF!!!!! Posted by: foreverhope
» Wrong about false flag alert Posted by: racetoinfinity
» GOOD RIDDANCE TO YA! Posted by: foreverhope
» Thanks for all your help. Posted by: freelyb
» Mr. Continuity Posted by: weathered
» i doubt it was obamas' fault... Posted by: Annapurna1
» USING KUCINICH! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: USING KUCINICH! Posted by: maxpayne
» listening to Kucinich Posted by: Kati
» RE: listening to Kucinich Posted by: Captain Moroni
» RE: listening to Kucinich Posted by: Lex Thomas
» Corporation personhood Posted by: Tom Tele
» A MESSAGE FOR REPUG THUGS Posted by: foreverhope
» Excuse me? Who's in denial? Posted by: foreverhope
» BLAME THE MEDIA! Posted by: foreverhope
» I am spartacus! Posted by: Spot
» He uses single payer health care Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: John Spartan Posted by: Spot
» It's a possibility... Posted by: freelyb
» RON PAUL! RON PAUL! RON PAUL! Posted by: foreverhope
» USING THE AMERICAN WORKER! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: USING THE AMERICAN WORKER! Posted by: maxpayne
» don't bite us Posted by: Spot
» RE: Captain Morini is a joke Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Captain Morini is a joke Posted by: Captain Moroni
» RE: Today's current right and left... Posted by: Captain Moroni
» YES WE CAN! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: YES WE CAN! Posted by: Spot
Hear, hear.
Posted by: esuriospiritus on Aug 7, 2009 1:18 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm not sure what scares me more, the fact that much of our world is heading in this direction and there may not be a way to escape what lies ahead outside of moving to a small unnamed island, or that so many people today live in complete denial that anything is amiss. All it takes is a long unbiased look at our political history. (The sad thing is, I've learned more about our country and other countries in similar messes in the last year of self-disciplined study than I have in 12 years of grade school and a year of college.)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Hear, hear. Posted by: EJLima
» RE: Hear, hear. Posted by: RevinFreddy
» Abolish the Dept. of Ed.? Posted by: freelyb
» RE: Hear, hear. Posted by: helenwheels
» We Do Deserve What Is Coming... Posted by: The Old Hippie
"civil disobedience"
Posted by: tjg1984 on Aug 8, 2009 12:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The use of the phrase "civil disobedience" in the second-to-last paragraph is confusing to me. Civil disobedience must be non-violent, and is used to combat violence. See Thoreau, Gandhi, MLK, etc. I cannot see how a fascist movement could employ anything that could properly be called "civil disobedience" without weakening itself. The real problem with fascism is its use of aggressive violence, correct?

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» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: talkville
» YOU ARE ADVOCATING VIOLENCE! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: mv_mc
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: I either run or I fight Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: I either run or I fight Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: Bob Horn
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: rltmlt
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: Spot
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: Jeremiahiii
» RE: "civil disobedience" Posted by: tjg1984
This article puts the question wrongly
Posted by: talkville on Aug 8, 2009 12:48 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We are already in fascist forms of rule.

The Framework was set up in detail in 1789. This is the Law of the Land.

The birth of fascist forms of rule was enshrined into the Law with the passage of legislation granting the Corporation the status of the Legal Fictional Individual.

Since that time, we already have been under fascist forms of rule, steadily, continuously and in still growing forms. Actual individuals are no longer of any significance whatsoever in the Rule of Law. This has all been elevated to the relations of Corporate Individuals with our Federal Individual and the various State Individuals that comprise it.

We are already fascists -- sometimes hidden under different names and never confronting it as a condition of our existence.

We can bring politics and economics back within our social relations,

or we can be barbarians.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hmmmmmmm Posted by: talkville
» Max Lex Thomas Payne Posted by: Beck
» RE: Max Lex Thomas Payne Posted by: Beck
A fascist society - i thought that was patiently clear
Posted by: Smiggsy on Aug 8, 2009 1:08 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If by fascism it is implied that we are all just existing on this planet as a hoard of debt-repayment slaves for our entire life...manipulated by the propaganda styled mass media...dictated by a militarised central government authority...as whenever deemed by the masters of our modern western styled civilization...then emphatically "yes" it always will be a fascist system

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The Great Diversion by the Elites ... Brown Shirt and White Collar Fascism ...
Posted by: mmckinl on Aug 8, 2009 1:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The "Elites are running scared. The economy is coming unraveled and rather than own up to their economic mismanagement and plunder their plan is to have the middle class pay for the damages and reorganization through falling wages and benefits, double the under and unemployment and fewer and more expensive government services such as education and health care.

Reaganomics has proved to be a total disaster for America, unless of course you are in the top 1% of wealth in America ... The top 1% have seen their wealth double or better from 20% to 40% of America's total wealth ... their incomes tripled or better while average real incomes for the middle class have stagnated and fallen; middle class wealth ravaged with the implosion of the Housing Market engineered by those same elites.

The Brown shirt movements could easily be stopped by having the FCC start banning hate speech with its thinly veiled threats on public officials ... The Michael Savages and Glen Becks continue to spew hate, that if coming from the left would be viewed as "inciting to riot" or out and out treason when they call for poisoning Pelosi or violence at town hall meetings.

But these hate mongers are not being stopped. They are allowed to incite hatred and criminal behavior because it serves the purposes of the Powers That Be ... They need to rile the masses to turn American on American while Health Care Inc, the Congressional Military Industrial Complex, the Prison Industrial Complex, Big Ag, the Domestic Surveillance Special Interests and last but certainly not least the Banksters take this country over, lock, stock and barrel.

The same Elites that fund Democrats fund Republicans as well ... They are pulling off the biggest thefts in the history of the United States by leaving their bad debts and broken promises for we the tax payers to clean up. Don't be fooled, in the end there is only one party, one government ... the corporatocracy ... and they are running to fascism to save their sorry asses from the their day of reckoning by making the middle class pay.

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WORST PRESIDENT EVER!
Posted by: AuditTheFed on Aug 8, 2009 1:12 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have the most communist government in American history, and you're worried about Fascism? There will be a strong right-wing backlash against Obamanomics, and you should be worried about that! Obama is on course to be the worst president in American history* and you're worried about working-class protesters attending town hall meetings?! Ugh, the elitist, pro-government snobbery on this site makes me sick.

*Worst Presidents EVER:

1) Woodrow Wilson
2) George W Bush
3) Franklin Roosevelt
4) Harry Truman
5) Lyndon Johnson

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» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: mapsguy1955
» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: jackie78
» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: Bob Horn
» TOP TEN WORST PRESIDENTS EVER! Posted by: AuditTheFed
» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: redstarwraith
» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: desidid
» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: desidid
» ALREADY? Posted by: Tom Tele
» RE: WORST PRESIDENT EVER! Posted by: Tom Degan
Are we allowed to have any opinions anymoe?
Posted by: AuditTheFed on Aug 8, 2009 1:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The photograph that accompanies this article shows a sweet little girl waving a sign that says DON'T TAX ME, and another nice looking person holds a sign that says WHERE'S THE CONSTITUTION?

So let me get this straight: Marxist anti-American Alternuts think that anyone who adheres to the Constitution or feels over-taxed is a "fascist"?

Is that like how anyone who criticizes Dear Leader is a racist?

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» RE: I am rapidly losing respect for this site Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» You're a Nazi! No, YOU'RE a Nazi!! Posted by: AuditTheFed
» Perhaps the photo was chosen... Posted by: photon's feather
» Wrong! Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: How did I spread lies? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: How did I spread lies? Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: How did I spread lies? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: How did I spread lies? Posted by: maxpayne
» RE: How did I spread lies? Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: What rational reason is there for that photo? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: What rational reason is there for that photo? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» One more thing... Posted by: Quannah
» Thanks for the additional refs, Quannah... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Perhaps the photo was chosen... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: I am rapidly losing respect for this site Posted by: Cpt. Lesder Sodmier Diatribe
» RE: I am rapidly losing respect for this site Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» We know you Maxie N/T Posted by: foreverhope
» There you go again. Posted by: maxpayne
Karlis Streips
Posted by: eeuropean2000 on Aug 8, 2009 1:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can't wait for the next post. This one is plenty scary, because the author is right -- the unholy alliance between the Religious Reich, the Republican Party and the insane Fox News cabal has become stronger and stronger. If members of Congress (!!!) can be addled enough to seriously suggest that Barack Obama was not born in the United States, then either they are so fraudulently and wickedly disingenuous that they should be institutionalized immediately, or they really are mentally impaired. I don't know which is worse. Even more -- these are all men and women who have actually been elected by a plurality of voters in their districts. Those who decided to send Michelle Bachmann, who as far as I'm concerned is a certifiable lunatic, to Congress -- who are these people? Those who believed that Sarah Palin would make a good vice-president despite having a manifold lack of even the most elementary qualifications for that job? Well, thank God they were in a minority, but the woman was elected governor of Alaska, wasn't she? This mendacious, hypocritical "Christian" who is so ready to wink and nudge when her unmarried teenage daughter becomes preggo. "Just say no", my ass! And meanwhile, the "megachurches" which preach the exact opposite of what Jesus taught (he did NOT teach to exclude anyone you do not like, and he did NOT teach that the goal is to become rich, rich, rich!) and the truly evil people who populate Fox News ("fair and balanced" -- what a steaming pile of horse-puckey!!) go on their merry way. With informational support, of course, from Lou Dobbs over at CNN, who is most certainly past his sell-by date. I grew up in the States and have lived in Europe for 20 years now, but what is going on in the country which allowed the Republicans to steal the 2000 presidential election and then sat back as the thief raped and pillaged the country's constitutional order -- mercy, mercy me! It is scary. The only good news, to me, is that the United States are, at the end of the day, a confederation. There are plenty of states, including my native state of Illinois, which would never say "yes" to the type of fascism which the Religious Reich and Republican Party are proposing. Perhaps there can just be a split at some time in the future. America can remain in the "blue states." The rest can form a new nation: Knuckledragonia.

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» RE: Karlis Streips Posted by: talkville
» RE: Karlis Streips Posted by: Jeremiahiii
» RE: Karlis Streips Posted by: talkville
» RE: Karlis Streips Posted by: Jeremiahiii
» RE: Karlis Streips Posted by: talkville
A big legal mistake
Posted by: marj on Aug 8, 2009 1:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The biggest legal mistake ever made has direct bearing on the central topic of this blog: allowing a corporation to be viewed as a legal "person."

Because corporations are so big, rich and powerful, the phrase "of the people, by the people and for the people" is now meaningless because those entities formerly known as people are so little, poor, and weak in comparison. What have we done to ourselves?

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» RE: A big legal mistake Posted by: phasor
» RE: A big legal mistake Posted by: TarryFaster
What does being Anti-Tax have to do with Fascism?
Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com on Aug 8, 2009 2:27 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems clear to me that the front page photo with the sign "Don't Tax Me Bro" was chosen by Alternet staff in an attempt to link opposition to taxation with fascism.

I am rapidly losing respect for this site. Journalistic integrity seems to have been flushed down the toilet.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Did you completely miss the point Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Did you completely miss the point Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Did you completely miss the point Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» P.S. the image name is topstories_antitax9.jpg Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You don't even know me at all Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: How many times are you going to repeat this? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Irrational. Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: You are Irrational. Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Hello McFly.... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Hello McFly.... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Hello McFly.... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: I see you didn't respond to my comment above Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Speaking of conspiracy bullshit Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You told me Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You are too stupid Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: You can't be this dumb Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Well, leave... Posted by: ETSpoon
» RE: Well, leave... Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Watch the movie Network Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Also watch Outfoxed Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Seen it, *sshole Posted by: sausage
» RE: I guess you didn't pay attention Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: The Lesson was don't trust the media Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Well, leave... Take your lies with you Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: The only liar here is you Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: And you are a chump Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» Yeah, if you say it enough times... Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Watch Outfoxed Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: Watch Outfoxed Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Hey, we have something in common Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: huh? Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» RE: huh? Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: You are out of your damn mind Posted by: rfrancis@godisdead.com
» awwww....that hurts. N/T Posted by: foreverhope
No draft
Posted by: Perry Logan on Aug 8, 2009 2:44 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fascism? Hell, they're not even drafting your little asses.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Yes, indeed, another delusional soul... Posted by: photon's feather
» Library, anyone? Posted by: Kati
» RE: Library, anyone? Posted by: photon's feather
» RE: Library, anyone? Posted by: mv_mc
» RE: No draft Posted by: talkville
» RE: No draft---huh!!? what? Posted by: Bob Horn
» Why draft? Posted by: billwald
» NEO-CON! We know you! ;-D N/T Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: No draft Posted by: Mojada
Fascism Made Really Easy
Posted by: Tom Degan on Aug 8, 2009 3:22 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that their cover has been eternally blown, they have no other choice but to encourage "the base" (or what's left of it) into a violent insurrection. That is what has been happening lately at these Town Hall Meetings. Today these people are disrupting Democracy through means of fear and intimidation. Tomorrow it will be by use of firearms. Count on it.

This could very easily be called the Glenn Beck Revolution. The former shock jock turned FOX Noise commentator has spent the last several weeks stirring up his clueless masses into hissy fits of rage and paranoia. Beck likes to think of himself as the modern day equivalent of Howard Beale, the character from the classic 1976 film, Network. As I wrote on this site back in June, it's an apt comparison. He's mad as hell.

It really is interesting when you think about it. Only a person with no journalistic experience whatsoever would ever be able to find success in the Conservative world. If Howard Stern tomorrow decided he wanted to change careers and start over as a Progressive television commentator, do you really think for a minute that most Liberals would be stupid enough to watch it? If Keith Olbermann tonight called on the masses to disrupt the public events held by Eric Cantor, few if any Liberals, I'm sure, would follow his lead in blind obedience. Then just what is it with those nutty wing-nuts?

By the way, this is slightly off-topic but I have a prediction to make: Eric Cantor will be their nominee in 2012. While he may be utterly lacking in substance, he looks really good on television - the perfect GOP candidate. Here is what their selling point will be:

We made history four years ago by sending a black guy to the Oval Office. Let's do it again by sending a Jew!

Mark my words.

It has always amused and amazed me how easily these people fall victim to obvious propaganda. That is why we are the laughingstock of the entire planet, I suppose. Remember it was only a few short years ago that a large segment of the electorate were hypnotized into believing that sending a corrupt, hideous, half-witted little frat boy like George W. Bush to the White House was a really neat idea.

Beck and his co-conspirators now have a huge segment of Americans believing that if President Obama's plan for health care reform is successful, the elderly will be euthanized. What the hell is the matter with them? The only explanation is that they just don't know what is best for them. They never have. They never will.

The GOP's Little Image Problem

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

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» RE: Fascism Made Really Easy Posted by: bobgalli
» Thank you, Bob Gall! Posted by: Tom Degan
» RE: Fascism Made Really Easy Posted by: talkville
REMOVE ME FROM ALTER NET
Posted by: garyoke on Aug 8, 2009 3:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This article is only one step removed from the vile paranoia of the right wing birthers and those who portray Obama as The Joker.

remove me from AlterNet's mailing list.

I no longer want to be any part of it

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» We Look and See.... Posted by: Tom Degan
» You can remove yourself... Posted by: ETSpoon
» RE: MOVE ME FROM ALTER NET Posted by: pdxlinuxchix
» UNSUBSCRIBE YOURSELF FOOL Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: MOVE ME FROM ALTER NET Posted by: ava1984
» Familiar refrain Posted by: westomoon
» RE: MOVE ME FROM ALTER NET Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net
» RE: MOVE ME FROM ALTER NET Posted by: ericksonml@sbcglobal.net
what to do? Download and read Bob Altemeyer's The Authoritarians
Posted by: Suzon on Aug 8, 2009 3:41 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For example, take the following statement: “Once our government leaders and the authorities condemn the dangerous elements in our society, it will be the duty of every patriotic citizen to help stomp out the rot that is poisoning our country from within.” Sounds like something Hitler would say, right? Want to guess how many politicians, how many lawmakers in the United States agreed with it? Want to guess what they had in common?

Or how about a government program that persecutes political parties, or minorities, or journalists the authorities do not like, by putting them in jail, even torturing and killing them. Nobody would approve of that, right? Guess again.

Don’t think for a minute this doesn’t concern you personally. Let me ask you, as we’re passing the time here, how many ordinary people do you think an evil authority would have to order to kill you before he found someone who would, unjustly, out of sheer obedience, just because the authority said to? What sort of person is most likely to follow such an order? What kind of official is most likely to give that order, if it suited his purposes? Look at what experiments tell us, as I did.

If, on the other hand, you’re way ahead of me, and believe the extreme right-wing elements in America are still working to take over the country despite the recent election--nay because of it--I think you can still get a lot from this book. The authoritarians aren’t going away.

The studies explain so much about these people. Yes, the research shows they are very aggressive, but why are they so hostile? Yes, experiments show they are almost totally uninfluenced by reasoning and evidence, but why are they so dogmatic? Yes, studies show the Religious Right has more than its fair share of hypocrites, from top to bottom; but why are they two-faced, and how come one face never notices the other? Yes, their leaders can give the flimsiest of excuses and even outright lies about things they’ve done wrong, but why do the rank-and-file believe them? What happens when authoritarian followers find the authoritarian leaders they crave and start marching together?

I think you’ll find this book “explains a lot.” Many scattered impressions about the enemies of freedom and equality become solidified by science and coherently connected here.


The last chapter is the most important because it suggests practical ways to reach authoritarians--and it's not by showing them how wrong they are!

Although you can buy a bound copy from Lulu, you can download it for free.

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» RE: General Strike Posted by: peacefullaim1
Almost good-bye to Democracy long time ago
Posted by: GPFrank on Aug 8, 2009 4:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I recall writing a paper for history class near the end of WWII. The subject was on fascism in the United states. There were three main centers of fascism at the time. The first was the one party rule in the Southern states that had lost the Civil War. The second was the governance of cities such as Chicago Philadelphia and Jersey City
that also had one party rule. The one party rule of course included fraud and various types of poll taxes and restrictions.
The third was the terror that some large industries had over the work force including first of all banning any sort of free speech
and any kind of union organizing. All of this type of governance was re-enforced by the perpetuation of racial prejudice and making ethnic groups such as the Irish and Italian as second class. Mitigation was by the mere fact of so many in the military fighting the Nazis and Japan and so many others new in the war time industries.
I believe the argument could be made if the Japanese had not made the strategic mistake of bombing Pearl Harbor we would have been there a long time ago. The ascendancy of such people as Huey long made for a most critical period. The President admitted he almost felt overcome.
The limitless amount of money concentrated by corporations allowed the purchase of politicians, use of scabs in industry and ownership of radio and newspapers.

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The one thing he's absolutely right about.
Posted by: PJAW on Aug 8, 2009 4:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm speaking of Obama, and that one thing is his assertion that there is only one America. He has managed to create doubt about his position and intent on many other issues (with the relentless assistance of suspiciously motivated media), but his core message of "one America" is vital.

However, only we can make that true, and the sooner we do, the better our chances of avoiding a complete and violent social meltdown.

A huge mistake was made when the tactics that placed George Bush in the Presidency were allowed to succeed and America took on the "we can survive this and fix it later" attitude. Well those in position to do so have never fixed anything and later seems to have come and gone. Now we are seeing more of the same. Self-declared victimhood coupled with hate speech, disruption and the growing threat of violence as non-violent efforts (such as the elective process) do not bring satisfaction.

Persecuting non-violent drug offenders and people of color have been an easy route to establishing one's "law and order" creds in the past, but that's not going to save the country now. Real, meaningful enforcement of our most important legal principles is what it's going to take and we can start by prosecuting war crimes, torture and illegal surveillance of private citizens.

To look away from those crimes is inviting disaster.

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» I'm no longer mincing words. Posted by: foreverhope
» There are two Americas. Posted by: Centavo
Don't Move! Don't do anything!
Posted by: RevinFreddy on Aug 8, 2009 4:40 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think Joe Bageant hit it dead on in his recent piece called Consciousness Capitalism - http://www.alternet.org/story/141668/

I believe the exit strategy to fascism is a reentry to artisanship. For without people understanding the very technologies upon which they base their existence, what chance do any of us have? To put it simply, we don’t have enough understanding of the simplest workings of mechanics today to get a large rock over a hill.

We don’t understand enough on our own, without help from an expert to do anything much. I could be speaking for myself, and I wish it were that simple. But when Joe Bageant asks ). Look around you.

Is there anything, from the food in the fridge to the fridge itself, from the furniture to the very varnish on the floors or the clothes we wear that was not delivered unto us by corporations? I can’t but answer, not really. And I’ve been putting this to my friends and family for the past three years. And no one wants to deal with it.

I have family that’s not so dependent. They’re destitute. The people most in touch with how to fend for themselves are in dire straights. They don’t have the luxury of giant corporations requiring their skills, they’ve developed them out of necessity. We should all do well to do the same.

For it is not the corporations that signed on to rule our lives, it was us that signed on to allowing them to, to requiring them to.

So it is today: We live in a fascist state, where none but a few of us know how the clock works or the microwave works or how the basics of electricity work outside a narrow spectrum. We don’t experiment much on our own or with friends in any domain of science of physics? Why not? For one thing, it’s illegal to do so in most domains, and if it’s not illegal, it’s definitely been branded as suspicious behavior! Turn in your neighbor if they’ve got beaker, electronics, or other suspicious stuff out of the ordinary, They might be running a meth lab or a terrorist bomb making facility!

Don’t get into science for god’s sakes! What will the neighbors think! We could all go to jail! For what? The charge is always the same: Suspicion of Some Shit You Aught Not ta Be Doin!

Leave All that fancy chemistry shit to the corporations! Drug shit? Leave that to the corporations too! And energy shit!? Don’t fuck with it! Leave it to the corporations! In fact, don’t do anything that might make people wonder what the fuck you’re doing. If it looks weird, it probably is dangerous! If it’s dangerous? It’s probably something that should be illegal! So fascism reigns!!!

And that’s my take.

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» RE: Don't Move! Don't do anything! Posted by: Jeremiahiii
» RE: Don't Move! Don't do anything! Posted by: RevinFreddy
» RE: Don't Move! Don't do anything! Posted by: RevinFreddy
Seems like many are perfectly okay with fascism if it's the kind they like
Posted by: Beck on Aug 8, 2009 4:55 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they get to be right and everyone else has to shut up because they're automatically wrong even before they speak, that seems okay. If they try to get Bush criticizers to shut up because you can't criticize a wartime president, but then get irate when criticisms of Obama are challenged, that seems okay. If certain provisions of the Constitution have to be shelved because of terrorist danger and war, that's okay, as long as the Democrat who booted the Republicans out of office doesn't try it. Deficits are fine; deficits are horrible. Clinton is taking our freedoms! Obama is okay with people smarting off at cops! Actually, the Supreme Court is okay with that.

To me, what is going on politically and in corporations doesn't seem new or special. We will never get over having to fight it. This sense of specialness holds us back and dupes us into thinking this is something new that we shouldn't have to deal with. Joseph Campbell said something like, "The world is a mess. It's always been a mess. It's our job to straighten out our lives."

Last night on a busy corner a group of independents had pictures of Obama with a Hitler mustache. And pamphlets on Obama's supposed Nazi health care plan. Hitler has never been more popular. I bet if he knew, he could not be happier about all the admiration. And don't act like that's not partly what it is. However, conflating a madman murderer's least egregious acts with a new president's push of congress's health reforms does not show a protest AGAINST fascism. It shows a willingness to to both use previous fascists for political benefit, and a willingness to head in that previous fascist's own direction, as long as it appears to work.

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And the American Labor Movements?
Posted by: lasarte-oria on Aug 8, 2009 4:58 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Re-read the history of labor conflict and you will see how this country has always embraced facist ideology when confronted with problems it would rather not handle via diplomacy.

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too late
Posted by: sicntired on Aug 8, 2009 5:03 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The minute the felons of the Bush administration were given clemency,everything they stood for was given tacit approval.Then the bailouts stopped at the general public's front door,no help for people sucked into bad loans.The trillions in bad debt are still there.The government doesn't talk about it anymore and don't expect the people holding all that useless paper to tell you the truth.The government is already kicking in your doors.It's called a drug war but the biggest traffickers on the planet are in the federal government.

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Simple minds use simple words.
Posted by: AJR Journal on Aug 8, 2009 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FASCISM!! The word is meaningless these days. It has been tagged onto both left-wing and right-wing acivities until its meaning has been diluted down to weak tea.
There are many, many corporate/state enterprises in the world. Are they all fascist? Probably not.
Left or right, everybody views the government has a source for potential personal gain. Everybody. You are no exception.
But fascist? The author displays a poor vocabulary.

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» Denial and distraction Posted by: aahpat
» Ann Coulter Defense Posted by: terradea42
» Congratulations! Posted by: maddy
» How about reading? Posted by: Kati
Yes, it is here
Posted by: rainingwolf on Aug 8, 2009 5:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Some guy on Twitter is encouraging the anti health care astro-turfers to start packing their guns to the Town Hall meetings and use them on the "union goons" and whoever else gets in their way, apparently.
This is very scary. I predict there will be someone killed before all of this is over, and it just makes me sick.

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» RE: Yes, it is here Posted by: AnIndependentThinker
It Is Happening Here
Posted by: whole2th on Aug 8, 2009 5:56 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sinclair Lewis' book, 'It Can't Happen Here"

Naomi Wolf's "End of America"

David Dee'sIllustrations illustrate vividly Amerika's fascist conditions.

Another state sponsored terrorist event (9/11, OK City Bombing, '93 WTC bombing, for example) and the sheople will be clamoring for their radio frequency ID chip (RFID) to be implanted in their hand or forehead.

Stampede the sheople and give them a big lie that you will be protecting them with the "final solution".

So far 9/11 has served the fascists well. How about an article about the discovery of nano-thermite? Or, is AlterNet waiting until the right moment to break this old news--just so the heat of outrage is sufficiently developed to achieve the chaos and rioting that Glenn Beck seems hell-bent on creating?

Learn the real history of who supported Hitler's Third Reich.

Read Jim Marrs' book: The Rise Of The Fourth Reich.

Israel plays a key role in these very dark transitions.

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» David Dees is a Rense monkey. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Hey, great argument... Posted by: kogwonton
» RE: It Is Happening Here Posted by: talkville
» WE KNOW YOU! Posted by: foreverhope
» No, you give it up, pal. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: No, you give it up, pal. Posted by: Lex Thomas
Wow
Posted by: zzdinko on Aug 8, 2009 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, no waqy dude that is WAY too cool.

RT
Online Privacy when it Counts

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Exposing the Traitors, Terrorist and Satanist that Rule the Repug party
Posted by: Purple Girl on Aug 8, 2009 6:20 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
How did the Bushies betray this country and our principles- 'Let me count the ways'- certainly exceeding the 35 articles already submitted.
Who bombed the OK city Fed Building? Pipe bombed the Atlanta Olympics? Are gunning down citizens in community centers, museums, gyms, at Church and in their own homes. It sure ain't the Liberal Left.
As for their 'religous' justifications for these acts of betrayal and violence...heres a Stumper for the 'Religious Right'-What 'weapon' does Christ use to defeat Satan in the last 'Great Battle' - an Lugar, AK47, Tanks, A nuclear bomb? No my Friend, Just the 'Word'. Thus the slogan 'Guns and God' or 'Soldiers for Christ' is not only Oxymoronic, but heretical in the True Christian Tradition. A perfectly good religion when not highjacked by posers and decievers.
Beyond that glaring contradiction- Do tell Holey Rollers how would Jesus view 'Empathy'?
Was it Apathy he exhibited while visiting the leper colony? Was He outraged when he'd shared the Fish and Bread He'd Mulitiplied?Did he believe the Upper echelon of the Jewish Faith and Roman Empire were Pre ordained by God for powers and priviledges?
Whatever these Zealots Think they are practicing - it ain't Christianity. In fact it's more akin to it's Antithesis. so it is possible to state America was founded on Christian values- Just not the ones these assholes are preaching or practicing.
Seems to me the Repug Base could use a course not only on the Founding of the UNITED States, but also Christianity.

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the family
Posted by: davidg on Aug 8, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The exposure of the "family" as a group of totalitarian Christians in Washington living in the "church" in Washington and the virulent ideology of the the private army of Erik Prince says much about the state of the political elements in the USA, the greatest democcracy in the world. Where is the media on these guys....almost mute, while they offer a few crumbs. Keep to public broadcasting and the Internet. Corporate media....?

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» RE: the family Posted by: talkville
» RE: the family Posted by: marletat
» Rachel Maddow Posted by: Beck
Is America ..
Posted by: bobtr900 on Aug 8, 2009 6:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is America on the brink of...? No. Now, thanks to the Repub party, America IS a fascist nation.

When Reagan was prez. America was on the brink. Now America IS a fascist nation. The Repub party is made up of the Cons, the Neocons and the Theocons. The American voter can and did deal with the Cons and the Neocons. But now thanks to the Theocons, America has been given over to the secular money grubbing business Fascists, the Cons, of the Repub party. Also we are given over to the mindset of the war mongering Neocons of the Rethug party. A clean sweep of success by the Theocons.

The Pope and Pat Robertson, the head Theocons, may someday regret this.

Someday, those two guys will exhort America to not be so consumerist, secular and greedy. Then I'm going to remind them, via emails. that they caused this situation and including these endless wars that Repubs love so well.

NOW, America IS on the brink of becoming a theocracy, not unlike Iran, where the religious leaders do the thinking and the controlling of their citizens. .

And now, the Theocons are going to deny an American health care program. More human degradation suffering and dying.

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On the Brink?
Posted by: aahpat on Aug 8, 2009 7:03 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. has held the world record in prison population for a dozen years. I think that we are well past the brink.

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corporatist economic ideology
Posted by: Jeremiahiii on Aug 8, 2009 7:08 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there was not enough accent on the Corporatist agenda we have going on here. It is obvious to me that this administration is favoring Big Ag, Big Pharma, and Big Finance with blatant disregard to the people of this country and the WORLD, for that matter. The Bush regime did the same, and the game continues as coffers of a few grow fat with a trail of blood and grief in their wake.

We must wake to the fact that the Bipartisan Left/Right model was a sham and we were duped and divided: The Divide and Conquer Technique succeeded in waylaying our Humanity and allowed these Fascists/Corporatists to step up their game.

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Glenn Beck joked about assassinating Pelosi on air
Posted by: aahpat on Aug 8, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If Reich-wing commentators can get away with joking about assassinating America's elected leaders, who are in the constitutional direct line of succession, America today is no different today from the closing days of Weimar-Germany.

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» You have no idea Posted by: aahpat
» After Sicko was released Posted by: jackyD
The Monster rises
Posted by: marid on Aug 8, 2009 7:14 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
from the dark regions of our hearts. We have been trained and conditioned to rise to the call, the call of Greed and power.

The Heartless, Soulless, Bloodless entities we call the Corporations and their lackeys are eating at the soul of America. We are as wheat before the scythe, ready to be harvested. The Media they control echos their message daily drowning out any dissent or reason. Our Politicians, nearly all and of both parties, are the Acolytes of the Corpse, doing their bidding with no thought, empty of souls because they sold them to assuage their personal greed and quest for power.

Term limits, real campaign finance reform, Single Payer Health Care, Real Tax Reform, Dissolution of Corporations, Energy Renaissance, if these do not happen our grand experiment will be deemed a failure in the journals of history. Notice who is fighting against and financing efforts to stop these initiatives?

Still using the methods of Leo Strauss to deadly effect.

1. Tell every lie you need to, admit to none.
2. Bang the drums of Nationalism.
3. Focus the rubes of enemies real or imagined.
4. Use Religion as a tool to ensnare the masses and provide a trump card in every argument.

When will we look up? Too late? I fear for my children and nation.

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The best protection from fascism in the U.S.
Posted by: aahpat on Aug 8, 2009 7:20 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is for the left and liberals to make it clear that we too believe in the Second Amendment and that we will exercise our Second Amendment rights to arm ourselves to protect and defend our constitutional way of life in America.

I have found that Reich-wingers ALWAYS back down when I tell them I am a left-wing Second Amendment supporter. It scares the blustering fascism out of them really fast.

You see the Reich-wing have long misused advocacy for Second Amendment as a subversive tactic to scare politicians into capitulating to the Reich-wing. either cow-tow to the Reich-wing or they will declare you a tyrant and expose you to the violence of NRA nut jobs. they depend on the idea that they and only they defend the Second Amendment. They assert that our founding fathers would write the Second Amendment to license this overt assassination threat to our elected leaders. BULLSHIT!

But the real purpose of the Second Amendment is to allow the entire nation stand up for our constitutional form of government. Against all enemies both foreign and domestic. We stood up against fascism in the Civil War. And we need to be willing to stand up against fascism today.

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FALSE FLAG ALERT!!
Posted by: telluride on Aug 8, 2009 7:24 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I blame BOTH parties for this environment. The DEMS allowed Clinton his Waco, OKC, and infiltration of the militias to thwart the right wing...

Then Bush had his 9/11 - and the resulting Islamophobia for Israel....

We can only pray that Obama is the reformer he presents himself to be.

Otherwise there will be an "event"

.... you know what kind....

to discredit the fringe right..... and to put an end to the tea baggers...

everybody knows what it will take....

and I suspect there are party operatives whispering in the proper ears.....

Don't do it Obama..... please stop the era of false flag manipulation

Be the hero we need you to be....

Let em have their disruptive, phony meetings..... they'll burn themselves out ... without any help from the goon squads.

Let's have REAL reform..... not manufactured events..... to control the opposition.

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» RE: FALSE FLAG ALERT!! Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» PROPOGANDIST! WE KNOW YOU! N/T Posted by: foreverhope
Not on the edge
Posted by: Philip Newton on Aug 8, 2009 7:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Over it.

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What about the corporate media?
Posted by: troubleinmind254 on Aug 8, 2009 7:29 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There was no mention about the influence of the mass media in this list of warning signs. What was the complicity of the press and in the rise of fascist power in the 20' and 30's, as well there complicity or indifference in the rise of Jim Crow?

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yes
Posted by: mwildfire on Aug 8, 2009 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Earlier this decade, I read a piece by a survivor of the Nazi death camps who wrote that what she saw under Bush was frighteningly similar to what happened in Germany as the Nazis seized power. This got me interested enough to check some books out of the library on the history of Hitler's rise. I saw many parallels, but one or two things struck me as differences--the one I remember was that when Hitler's Nazi Perty was struggling for greater power, at a time when they were still a fairly small group and their main competitors were the Communists, they had thugs beat people at the competing rallies and thus shut them down. Well, I thought, we don't have THAT happening here--was it because those were more primitive times? So when I read about what's going on at these health care rallies, it was with horrified recognition.
I witnessed something similar recently at a rally in the coalfields of West Virginia, the one leading to the trespassing arrests of climate scientist James Hansen and actress Darryl Hanna. Pro-mining supporters showed up en masse and drowned out the music and speeches with shouts and revved up motorcycles and airhorns right outside the rally. I thought, I wonder how the police would react if WE acted this was at a Friends of Coal rally? They did march one man outside after he called out to the preacher who was speaking, "Did you come for a little boy?" and they did arrest one of two women who slapped anti-coal women at the event. These people feel beseiged by the negative publicity on nountaintop removal coal mining, on coal sludge disasters like the recent TVA one, and above all by potential changes coming because of climate change. They will fight hard for jobs that pay $70,000 a year with no college required. They will convince themselves that their desecration is "making the mountains better" and that opponents are all "out-of-state extremists." Nothing new there. But the aggression is new, and I suspect it's being quietly promoted, with the same motive as what's going on at the health care rallies--desperation to protect profits which are being exposed as coming at the public expense. With Congress being a wholly owned subsidiary of United Corporations, there is no genuine threat of real climate change legislation or health care reform, but apparently these people don't realize that.

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» Doomsayer, we know you. N/T Posted by: foreverhope
click the link for JSTOR...
Posted by: ellie on Aug 8, 2009 7:39 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and ready the journal article... hint, author's pretty spot on... are we going to allow a banana republic based on fascism grow from the screaming unknowing hordes, take over a national debate or are we going to let them yell into a vacuum until they run out of air...

does anyone even remember the topic is actually health care reform, not should we or not blow up the moon???

the current style of 'protest' was developed from the playbooks of the last election and we know how well that turned out for the republicans... potential voters turned their backs on a candidate for allowing this type of crap to go on during their campaign stumps... sarah, you reading this???

question... what else is going on for this entire sideshow to take over media time that we're not supposed to know about???

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» Read this Sarah! Posted by: foreverhope
ba
Posted by: mnstra on Aug 8, 2009 7:59 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has already happened. The Wall Street crowd has taken all the money it needs.

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''Proggressives ''OPEN the door to fascism
Posted by: ghost in the machine on Aug 8, 2009 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What a load of obscurantist bullshit Sara.The bottom line is that when capitalism goes into crisis and the law of value asserts itself , It throws worker against worker .

''Proggressives ''like yourselves are more likely to become part of the problem , rather than the solution. Capitalism will go into fascism if the force that makes all the difference ( ie the working class) is not decisively lead with a clear agenda and understanding . Sorry but all this impressionistic descriptive collage you have given us , completely obscures the real economic dynamic that brings capitalism to this crisis. This then defines the nature of the response and the need to develop a movement to physically replace the existing institutions .

Instead we are left to continue pleading with liberals and moralists for just a few crumbs off the table , because when push comes to shove you dont want to change anything at the fundamental level...scratch a progressive and you find a liberal tory.. republican.

Be careful that YOU dont unwittingly become become part of the problem and NOT the solution.

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» RE: ''Proggressives ''OPEN the door to fascism Posted by: ghost in the machine
» RE: ''Proggressives ''OPEN the door to fascism Posted by: ghost in the machine
FASCISM IS CORPORATE GOVERANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE
Posted by: ThomasG on Aug 8, 2009 8:20 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FASCISM IS CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE.

This thread's definition of FASCISM is a SUBJECTIVE definition of Fascism, not an OBJECTIVE definition of FASCISM.

An OBJECTIVE definition of FASCISM is CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE. Two OBJECTIVE examples of Fascism are the Nazi governance of Adolph Hitler in Germany and the Fascist governance of Benito Mussolini in Italy, both are OBJECTIVE examples.

Again, the OBJECTIVE definition of Fascism is "CORPORATE GOVERNANCE with a RELIGIOUS facade." Fascism always USES RELIGION for a RELIGIOUS DECEPTION. Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini ran the governments, but the CORPORATIONS ran Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

Describing FASCISM can be likened to describing PROPAGANDA, books can be written on fascism, or fascism can be described more appropriately with a small elegant definition: as with PROPAGANDA; all propaganda can be OBJECTIVELY described with three words, "BINARY EMOTIONAL RHETORIC," like all FASCISM can be described with six words, "CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE".

In politics, it is necessary to have both OBJECTIVE and SUBJECTIVE understanding, otherwise understanding is fragmented and the mind can be easily deceived, which is what is happening in politics today in the United States.

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FASCISM IS CORPORATE GOVERANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE
Posted by: ThomasG on Aug 8, 2009 8:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
FASCISM IS CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE.

This thread's definition of FASCISM is a SUBJECTIVE definition of Fascism, not an OBJECTIVE definition of FASCISM.

An OBJECTIVE definition of FASCISM is CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE. Two OBJECTIVE examples of Fascism are the Nazi governance of Adolph Hitler in Germany and the Fascist governance of Benito Mussolini in Italy, both are OBJECTIVE examples.

Again, the OBJECTIVE definition of Fascism is "CORPORATE GOVERNANCE with a RELIGIOUS facade." Fascism always USES RELIGION for a RELIGIOUS DECEPTION. Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini ran the governments, but the CORPORATIONS ran Adolph Hitler and Benito Mussolini.

Describing FASCISM can be likened to describing PROPAGANDA, books can be written on fascism, or fascism can be described more appropriately with a small elegant definition: as with PROPAGANDA; all propaganda can be OBJECTIVELY described with three words, "BINARY EMOTIONAL RHETORIC," like all FASCISM can be described with six words, "CORPORATE GOVERNANCE WITH A RELIGIOUS FACADE".

In politics, it is necessary to have both OBJECTIVE and SUBJECTIVE understanding, otherwise understanding is fragmented and the mind can be easily deceived, which is what is happening in politics today in the United States.

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Call Him Big Daddy.
Posted by: melpol on Aug 8, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All the poor love Uncle Sam. He never forgets to provide for them. But the rich are jealous and they also want some of the freebies. He will now give everybody free health care. The whole nation will now love him equally and not call him uncle, but Big Daddy.

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So when do I hightail it out of the U-S-of-A?
Posted by: Hazumu on Aug 8, 2009 8:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm a post-operative male-to-female transsexual. With the budding brownshirt crowd, that's an instant license to dehumanize and marginalize me if they ever find out. And transsexualism is seen as so radical, revolting and disgusting by these 'folks', I doubt there will be much time between detection and death at the hands of an emboldened 'bubba.'

When do I quit my government job and seek asylum in a more rational country?

And which countries should I seek asylum in?

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Fixing it for you:
Posted by: ABetterFuture on Aug 8, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
With each new outrage, the small handful of us who'd made ourselves experts on right-wing culture and politics would gleefully imagine ourselves in a similar position of power as absolute as could reasonably be expected in a democratic form of government, where we must disdainfully tolerate dissenting voices...for now.

And now, you've got your wish. Thank you for revealing your fantasies to us.

My 'change' got me a cup of coffee, and I'm quite happy with that. These perpetual wars, the shackles that social security and medicare place on our children, and the newly-minted governmental expertise in running* automobile companies remain, however, quite disconcerting.

Again, how's that 'change' treating you?

*Hey, he was a community organizer, right?

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» Fixing it for you: Posted by: ABetterFuture
Sara is right we've been herded into a FASCIST STATE
Posted by: timenotonmyside on Aug 8, 2009 9:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
'' We know beyond doubt that the Teabag movement was created out of whole cloth by astroturf groups like Dick Armey's FreedomWorks and Tim Phillips' Americans for Prosperity, with massive media help from FOX News. We see the Birther fracas -- the kind of urban myth-making that should have never made it out of the pages of the National Enquirer -- being openly ratified by Congressional Republicans. We've seen Armey's own professionally-produced field manual that carefully instructs conservative goon squads in the fine art of disrupting the democratic governing process -- and the film of public officials being terrorized and threatened to the point where some of them required armed escorts to leave the building. We've seen Republican House Minority Leader John Boehner applauding and promoting a video of the disruptions and looking forward to "a long, hot August for Democrats in Congress."

We MUST get out and fight the Dick Armey's, the Birther's and Fox News...............

or we are doomed to be their victims

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» In days like these...... Posted by: talkville
Power to the Consumer
Posted by: CTC123 on Aug 8, 2009 9:07 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider the Connection to:
Environmental Campaign:
Conservation is the wise-use, management and development of the Earths natural resources.
Wise-use is needed at all levels of the Economic Pyramid.
People are a natural resource.
Search 4 the facts:
www.Organizingforamerica,com
www.HealthCareCantWait.com
Great article
www.ourfuture.org/action
www.consumersunion.org
www.aft.org/fight4america
www.WeWantThePublicOption.com
CTC123GREEN
Great article, Sara Robinson

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Assault on the Bill of Rights
Posted by: SteveA on Aug 8, 2009 9:23 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
All through the dark months of the Obama Administration, Conservatives have watched in horror as Constitutional protections have come under direct assault, socialist rhetoric ratcheted up, hate speech turned into intimidation and violence as requested from the President himself who has seized for himself powers only demanded by history's worst dictators. With each new outrage, the small handful of us who'd made ourselves experts on Socialist culture and politics would hear once again from worried citizens: Is this it? Have we finally become a fascist state? Are we there yet?

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» RE: Assault on the Bill of Rights Posted by: illumineer
» I didn't vote for Obama & Posted by: aahpat
A "Sieg Heil" future for us all?
Posted by: monkeywrench on Aug 8, 2009 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I posted this elsewhere on AlterNet, but I think it applies here as well:
. . . . .

Ms. Robinson is right. There are disturbing parallels between what is actually happening right now, right under our noses here, and what happened in 1930's Germany at the beginning of the consolidation of power by fascists. To wit:

The stolen election of 2000 (and 2004) that put Bush into the White House; the stolen election of the early 1930's that put Hitler into the role of Chancellor of Germany. The current tactic of right-wing crazy-but-organized infiltrators shouting down any and all rational speech at congresspersons' town meetings, and issuing death threats as well; the Brownshirts shouting down dissenters and opponents at meetings (and eventually beating the hell out of them). The emasculation of our current congress by more strident, more organized political "thugs" on the right; the emasculation of the Reichstag and the Weimar Republic by the very real thugs of the fascist movement. An overly concilliatory and compromising Obama today; an overly concilliatory and compromising Chancellor Hindenburg just before the fascist takeover. And let's not forget the 9/11 tragedy, which set the tone for Bush & Co. to skirt our laws and our Constitution to unleash their cruelty on the pretext of defense against terrorism –– the same tactics that Hitler's fascists used after the Reichstag fire, which in fact Hitler's operatives set themselves for just that purpose. One can attempt to diminish the effects of the 2000-2004 elections by pointing to Obama's victory; however, Obama is continuing many of Bush's immoral policies, to the shock and consternation of his previous supporters.

(Ask yourselves this: why did the Republicans put up as their "opposition" to Obama, McCain/Palin, possibly the worst two candidates the Repugs could have found? No one's looking at the details of the 2008 election because we all thought that we got what we wanted; but, maybe, we should ....)

I may be wrong, but the kind of near-violence and death threats occuring in congressional townhall meetings of late come dangerously close to enciting to riot or enciting anarchy – both felonies. Yet, unlike when Kennedy sent the FBI to investigate, and then sent the National Guard into the South to quell volence against blacks, Obama's Attorney General, Eric Holter, has been A.W.O.L. on even COMMENTING about the dangerous turn of events affecting our congresspeople lately. If the right-wing modern Brownshirts do turn violent, will Mister Holter act? Judging by current events, I doubt it.

We also have the situation of hate-mongers on the right today not being taken seriously by most of the media and the public, just like the German media, and population, made light of those whacko fascists as fringe lunatics back in 1930's Germany (as did much of Europe and England under Neville Chamberlain) –– until the German population awoke one day and found themselves in a brutal dictatorship, and the world ensnared in World War II.

Will we have to learn this same lesson all over again in the same way? Who will become the "Jews" and "communists" today, blacks, illegal aliens and gays? (Gays were slaughtered under Hitler along with Jews and gypsies.) Will George Santyana be proven right once again, that those who fail to remember history are doomed to repeat it? I shudder as I contemplate an answer to those questions that becomes more likely with every passing day ...

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judesedit
Posted by: judette on Aug 8, 2009 9:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These people are living proof of the decline in our educational system.

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» RE: judesedit Posted by: talkville
Fascism
Posted by: Amerikagulag on Aug 8, 2009 9:30 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are we there yet???? What a silly question.

Jonathan Turley said it best. "Anyone who believes there are two parties operating in Washington DC is a fool."

There is ONE party. One BIG party folks. And We The People are not invited.

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» RE: Fascism Posted by: rastaman
» RE: Fascism Posted by: talkville
The Red States are Ready
Posted by: COinms on Aug 8, 2009 9:45 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a barber deep in red state Mississippi. I'm not conservative or liberal, but independent... although I sympathize much more with the left than the right. Anyway, one of my partners is a 'good ol boy'. Here are some of his comments to me, from just this morning, which are pretty much the same as what this article says:

'Obama was not born in the U.S. (I showed him factcheck.org but it made no difference)

He hates Olbermann and Maddow (I like them)

There's going to be a revolution in the U.S. soon, and he has guns.

The liberals are ruining this country.

The illegals are ruining this country.

The healthcare plan will ruin this country.


I'm really getting nervous living in Mississippi, and I am seriously planning on moving out of here, out of the south as soon as possible. I hope there is enough time left. I can't let my kids grow up here.

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» RE: The Red States are Ready Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: The Red States are Ready Posted by: talkville
» Gone With The Wind Posted by: foreverhope
LaVoz
Posted by: LaVoz on Aug 8, 2009 9:47 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My goodness! The American Left has become so superficial and anachronistic. The people who want to bring more and more government controls for the benefit of neo-corporatists and Wall Street is Obama! You have to go beyond the Mussolini type rhetoric of "Change" and "Hope". The real fascists in Latin America are being led by Chavez, who has established, not socialism, but a neo-military/capitalist state where only he and his cronies can dispose of oil revenues. This very opposition media (AlterNet) would be ban in Venezuela where Chavez just shot down 34 radio stations, not to mention Cuba. The same with Raul, where only ten generals control all the capital from the hotel/tourism industry to prostitution, to narcotraffic to communications to the energy sector. Obama has validated and continued all Bush's major policies but with even more personal controls through the appointment, so far, of more than 20 Czars responsive only to him!

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» RE: LaVoz------ de quien? Posted by: talkville
A stolen election in 2000,
Posted by: weathered on Aug 8, 2009 9:56 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
9/11, a little anthrax here, a blanket bribe there, Iraq/Afgn theft/torture and now a consolidation/redistribution of wealth all choreographed w/precision by a MSM monster.

Who wrote this screenplay? Bushcon drove the getaway car while the zionists called the shots from the backseat.

The truth is simple, it requires little. Lies are very needy and require lots heavy lifting.

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Absurd to Point at Those Out of Power!
Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Aug 8, 2009 9:57 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama delivered the entire system to Goldman Saks, CitiBank, the Rockefeller/OPEC camarilla! How can the LEFT be so blind. Bush gets conned by Goldman's Paulson and Obama DOUBLES DOWN ON IT. . .

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ObamaCare = Fascist Euthanasia for Big CORPS!
Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Aug 8, 2009 10:00 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Read the Bill! Just say no!

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Left Should Look at Their Leaders
Posted by: Lloydmillerus on Aug 8, 2009 10:04 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The major Corporations put over Obama to implement their Fascist Cap & Trade and ObamaCare Euthanasia vs. the "too numerous" Baby Boomers!

Instead of looking at the villians hiding behind "leftist" rhetoric (GE and MSNBC), the LEFT looks at the Corporate Opposition to Fascism at Fox and Talk Radio!

MORONS!

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I Got News For You....Fascism IS HERE
Posted by: rastaman on Aug 8, 2009 10:14 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I Got News For You....Fascism IS HERE....and has been for decades.

the fact that you're just now waking up to it is a testament to (and characteristic of) the ignorance that fascism relies on.


Want another revelation?.......it's not fascism that's on the horizon, but TOTALITARIANISM.


Another revelation? fascism has never been defeated internally.


so much for the polyarchy that AMERICAN PEABRAINS call "democracy" and are convinced to spread around the world through hegemony.



READ: Chomsky, Lawrence Britt, Umberto Eco, Rich Gibson and Orwell. (if you CAN read and comprehend)


http://i301.photo bucket.com/albums/nn46/Rastamannn/ideologychart.jpg

(edited to fit. remove the space between photo and bucket)

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Progressives can buy guns, too
Posted by: fanshawe on Aug 8, 2009 10:16 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate to say it, but if we're in the parking lot of fascism, bloodshed is all that's left. While we wring our hands and examine intellectual models of the development of fascism, the other side is buying guns and ammo.

Let's not pull back; let's push back. Have Obama sic the ATF on every one of these half-bred hillbillies. Shut down Fox News and disappear radio demagogues.

About half of America is willfully stupid and incurious, and hence, afraid of anything different or new. They must be eliminated. We can't afford them anymore.

We got Obama into the henhouse -- now forget his middling, Yes Massa courting of some limp-wristed Middle and finish the job. As the author says, while we still can.

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More insight needed
Posted by: James2 on Aug 8, 2009 10:21 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I appreciate the insight of the article but I believe that insight should be turned on both parties in the country since fascism in history have been single party systems. There is a big push to limit federal government power. If this happens then fascism is cut off at root. The powers of the federal government must be brought back under the constitution.

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This question
Posted by: JefffromCA on Aug 8, 2009 10:24 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
should have been asked before President Eisenhower's Military-Industrial Complex speech because that was already festering and growing into the monster that it is today.

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Not fascism, fake "democracy". And I'm not one of those who voted for it !
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Aug 8, 2009 10:28 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fascism? I think not. How about calling this a fake "democracy" where we're told two pick between the same choices that look cosmetically different. This need not be limited to politics but to most of the daily products you buy and use in life. To top it off, we're spreading fake "democracy" to Iraq and Afghanistan with Pakistan and possibly Iran and making the Middle East HATE US ! It seems that according to most Republicans and Democrats, just judge a book by its bookcover and not its contents. There were good pols out there both in the primaries and the general elections but it appears that falling for the corporate media trash and voting for pols based on who fundraises the most, party affliliation, phony corporate media written polls, faux "personality", etc ... are all the matter. Pay no attention to non-monied pols ready to address the issues like real adults instead of Manchurian brats like Dubya and Barry ! If Obama hadn't been doing a dirt poor job already, the author wouldn't be going through all this trouble writing such an article. I paid attention to the issues and gladly voted for Ralph Nader.

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» Too bad you Obamabots are just jealous. Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» That's just sad Posted by: westomoon
Historically, "fascism" arose as an alliance between corporate wealth and political parties.
Posted by: gunboat diplomat on Aug 8, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In 1932, Hitler met with the head of I.G. Farben, the giant chemical-pharmaceutical combine formed from the merger of German companies in the early 20th century.

The deal was a quid pro - in exchange for campaign contributions to the Nazi Party, I.G. Farben would receive preferential access to government contracts, as well as support for the coal-to-gasoline program - critical to the Nazi's nascent plans for militaristic domination of Europe and a German colonial empire that would take over territories from the British, French, Belgiums, etc. I.G Farben was critical to this effort, as they would be making all the explosives and fuel needed for the war effort.

It's also a fact that large American corporate conglomerates that were horrified by FDR's reforms both admired and invested heavily in Hitler's Germany and Mussolini's Italy. Their justification was 'fear of communism', but in fact their deals with Nazi Germany were critical to their war effort, especially when it came to aircraft fuel. Some of those deals lasted well into 1942, when the Trading with the Enemy Act finally made it all illegal.

So, if one was really looking for fascism today, one would look for large corporate conglomerates with close ties to government and secretive relationships with political parties. There's no shortage of names to pick from.

First, the top ten bundled donors to McCain:

Merrill Lynch
Citigroup Inc
Morgan Stanley
Goldman Sachs
JPMorgan Chase & Co
US Government
AT&T Inc
Wachovia Corp
UBS AG
Credit Suisse Group

Then, the top bundled donors for Obama:

University of California
Goldman Sachs
Harvard University
Microsoft Corp
Google Inc
Citigroup Inc
JPMorgan Chase & Co
Time Warner
Sidley Austin LLP
Stanford University

The obvious conclusion here is that IF there really is a drive towards fascism in the United States, then it is the financial sector - banks and shareholders - that are likely behind it.

However, it can't really happen unless the above corporate interests are allowed to merge into one super-giant conglomerate along the lines of IG Farben.

How close are they to achieving that goal? They've managed to defeat or water down most anti-trust laws, while at the same time securing tighter control over all intellectual property - which is the same strategy used by I.G. Farben in the 1920s and 1930s. Gates and Microsoft is also obsess over control of intellectual property, as does Big Pharma.

Similarly, the economic crisis has allowed many Wall Street firms like JP Morgan to gobble up the assets of smaller institutions like Lehman and Bear Sterns, with no pesky merger to deal with.

In other words, if the Republicans had stayed in office and the corporate conglomerates were allowed to keep growing (JP Morgan, Goldman Sachs, General Electric & Microsoft are probably among the worst), then yes, fascism would be right around the corner. Democrats, in contrast, are at most maintaining the status quo, not rolling it back or trying to break up corporate conglomerates with anti-trust legislation. When they do try, they are assaulted by the corporate conglomerates - who are obviously the ones behind the town hall health care disruptions.

Since the press is also owned by corporate conglomerates (largely), you don’t see much discussion of this basic underlying dynamic – and of course, politicians who talk about it get their funds cut off, while their opponents get lavish donations.

P.S. The major universities that are large donors to Obama should be viewed with some suspicion, as they've all mostly adopted the "loyalty to the corporate agenda" viewpoint.

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Noticed Alot Of People Commenting On Picture Attached To Article
Posted by: desidid on Aug 8, 2009 10:39 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
and conflating people against taxation with fascism. Didn't see any comments about conflating anyone not sanctioning illegal immigrantion with fascism. That is the problem with many of these discussions they teter on the Bush dictum of, "I Am The Decider." People line up behind a political prospective then those like Alternet who think they are the voice of that prospective, determine the mindset of say, Progressives. That in short, is fascism. When people who follow a political persuasion are told how they should feel, think, or speak to an issue, regardless of how it has personally affected their lives, is not a democratic principal. Much as slavery benefitted the master, but not the slave, is it not a little crazy to tell the slave they are fortunate to be cared for? Would one tell an elderly relative in a nursing home, they are fortunate if the home decides to turn, feed, or clean them? I don't think so. Slavemaster cared for slaves enough to keep them alive and productive, some nursing homes do enough to keep the elderly alive and no more. All that to say, if you are the victim your perspective may not match the group think. So neither perspective is better than the other if ultimately both use the same mindset. Social justice should ensure that all victims are heard, not just some. That is how I view democracy.

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Hitler Reborn
Posted by: Adastra on Aug 8, 2009 10:41 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the past 40 years, my comment on the state of American politics has been consistent, "Hitler may have lost his war, but he has won the peace." I am feeling a justified smugness lately. Our political/economic system has been fascist and increasingly fascist since at least the second half of the last century. And the seeds were planted probably with the drafting of the Constitution.

Fascism as an economic policy is best defined as "A system in which the means of production are left in private hands, but subject to government control." The image of racist rallies and rampaging politicized thugs is a common one, but does not represent the core of fascism, only some of the tools fascists like to use--as is a perverted form of Christianity or some other fundamentalist creed. Don't forget, folks, that the earliest National Socialist platforms called for a return to traditional "Christian values". The catch is that "traditional Christian values" tends to refer to a gross parody of real Christianity designed and spread by the Princes of Hell--speaking metaphorically, since Hell itself is a fascist invention based on deliberate misinterpretation of Biblical words that actually refer to "the grave" or the state of death. It's all a con, from the megachurches and televangelists who spout a twisted antimorality of their own invention and call it "Christianity." I call it "Christianoid", meaning "a pretense at Christianity without the substance." Beware. Hell has arrived and is already in control.

With love under will,

Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville

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I love it.
Posted by: Rusty Shackleford on Aug 8, 2009 10:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My step-father-in-law is 57-year-old a blue-collar truck driver. He's a registered member of the republican party, and constantly receives surveys and polls in the mail from the RNC. He hates Obama for no other reason than that he's black. He constantly refers to the man with the pejorative N-word (as well as all other blacks too). He insults anyone who does support him. The funniest thing is that he's dying. His health insurance premiums are through the roof, and because of years of smoking, lack of exercise, and a diet of red meat and grease that would make a T-Rex sick to its stomach, he's drowning in health problems, yet he thinks Obama is a card-carrying commie for wanting to create a public option that would help people like him, both financially and health-wise.

I personally don't support Obama anymore, as I don't think the man is anywhere NEAR liberal enough for what we NEED in this country.

A few weeks ago, upon reading about the UK's three main political parties (LibDems, Labour, and Conservative), it occurred to me that they basically have two liberal parties and one conservative party. We in America have one conservative party and one moderate party. A very cowardly moderate party at that.

Heading towards a fascist state? We're already there, people. And if this country has learned nothing from 30+ years of social stratification and money shifting upwards, and the republicans win back congress and/or the white house in 2010/2012, then I'm leaving. I don't care how much it costs me, I don't care how hard I have to work in Britain or Canada or Ireland, etc. I don't care. I will NOT continue to live in a centre-right country. And make no mistake, this IS a centre-right country. Obama might have won, but that was only because he was a moderate. Not because he was a liberal, which he isn't.

I love how at these town hall meetings, you have nuts chanting in the background, "move to Europe, commie. Move to Canada, socialist." I love how most right-wingers are not the puppeteers behind the stage, but the puppets. The blue-collar workers who have no idea just how badly they're being manipulated. The puppeteers don't give a shit about the puppets. When they break, because they don't have adequate healthcare, they can always go out and buy (find) new puppets. They are the very definition of "tool."

I've said this before, and I'll say it again. I think one possibility is to dissolve the union. Let the red states go their own way, and pack up and move accordingly by incentives to liberals to move to New England or California or something like that. This country contains people who are such polar opposites, that there's no way we're ever going to progress one step further until we cut the rope.

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» RE: Just Curious Posted by: desidid
» RE: Just Curious Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» RE: Just Curious Posted by: desidid
» RE:So where would you move? Posted by: marletat
» RE: I love it. Posted by: talkville
BA
Posted by: mnstra on Aug 8, 2009 10:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It is a good article and very thought provoking.
It is very important to all of us who comment here is that we do not loose sight of the fact that other than the few percent at the top, we are all in this together. We need not fight among ourselves, that is exactingly what the Hitlers of the world want. Every time a person strikes out in those health care hearings, he is empowering the ruling elite to turn us all into competitive anamals. We are more intelligent that that and can make adult choices. Any grade school kid can see the transparency in the histrionics by the fascistic behavior and attempt to control the debate. I suggest that we remain rational, thinking beings and don't buy into the violence perpetrated by the Right.

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» RE: BA Posted by: talkville
Sara ...whose side are you on
Posted by: ghost in the machine on Aug 8, 2009 11:01 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should I just say to be clear , the language Sarah uses is that of the very institutions she would say she is against . It is libertarian in its propositions , abstracting signifcance from surface appearances .History has shown us quite clearly that this sort of impressionistic verbage is redundant .As Marx said ..if the world were reduceable to ''commonsense '' and surface appearances then where would the need be for science .

Sara quotes this guy Paxton who really just catalogues symptoms , not causes . No coherent sense and understanding comes from her and him in regards a process at work . A process that is not mystical nor reduceable to morality . but ''what and how people act under certain changing conditions in a society whose essential antagonism is class not sex or colour . Each and all of us reflect in our being this antaganism.

She makes no mention of an intelligble ''objective reality ''. but what she does do is give us a goood dose of fatalism as if really ''its all too late ''. she ignores completely what is 'new ' in the emerging army of disenfranchised workers , as Obama does the bidding for the corporate elites in clearing out all that is not profitable . Even the crumbs that he is offering are not worth having .
If we were to believe Sara it would look like their is no dynamic here . That mass redundancy ,and disenfranchisement , is not energy in itself , that can and will transform into something new .
For her it all seems a world of passive workers ever to be so . This sort of garbage is precisely what sociologists in well paid jobs have been touting for years , to the point that they think the market has won ...there will be no more strikes ...

Well the market just collapsed , and the tsunami is yet to follow

I have to say but this is one of the worst articles I have read on Alternet.

The crisis we live in was quite easily predictable , those who didn t , couldnt because of the intellectual tools they have , which merely reflects how their own position to the status quo regardless of their 'angst'.

in short ...You cannot use 'the systems own ideology' against itself .

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» RE: Sara ...whose side are you on Posted by: ghost in the machine
Jimmy Carter can die peacefully knowing he was not the worst president ever!
Posted by: Caleb Darkstar on Aug 8, 2009 11:03 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not only has Obama:

Not ended the wars

Not closed gitmo

Not repealed the patriot act

Not initiated campaign reform

He has also spent us into the bigest financial deficit this country has ever experienced.

Gotten our Govt. involved in private corporations.

Spewed money to states through a stimulus bill that was earmarked for unneeded projects and has thus far been ineffective.

Proposed legislation now to seize government control of healthcare.

Just as he did not repeal any of the old Bush changes, the next administration (Whoever it may be) will not repeal his. They are all in the tank for more control and less personal freedom.

Footnote: After lambasting the gm execs for comming to washington on private jets, Your current administration just blew 500 million on four more for themselves.

We are all insignificant pawns used by idealogues on both side of the fence to keep them in power. Our politics has turned into the equivelent of BIG TIMe WRESTLING, nad we have become the suckers who buy the tickets to see the rigged match.

ARE YOU GETTING IT?

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» RE: FDR Was Criti Posted by: desidid
» RE: FDR Was Criti Posted by: Caleb Darkstar
» Are you? Posted by: Beck
» LOL BECK! Posted by: foreverhope
» RE: LOL BECK! Posted by: Beck
I would have to say that it's not only possible but probable
Posted by: chetdude on Aug 8, 2009 11:04 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. was on the brink of either a Fascist or Socialist take-over when FDR was elected in 1932. The conditions were very similar to now except back then there were not the added burdens of resource depletion, global climate change to add to the economic meltdown.

Then FDR's people co-opted parts of the Socialist/Progressive agenda and short-circuited the potential for a mass exodus toward the USAmerican Fascists.

Unlike FDR, President Obama appears to be dedicated to appeasing the corporate interests at the expense of the public good so the outlook does not look good.

We already ARE a corporatist state, have NEVER been an effective democracy and, if events continue to go as they are going and power is retained by the same USAmerican Aristocracy of Birth, then yes, we are ripe for Fascism...if we aren't already there.

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Marcuse
Posted by: redstarwraith on Aug 8, 2009 11:08 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Actually if i remember correctly, it was the OSS (precursor to the CIA) that Marcuse worked for as part of their so-called de-Nazification program. He later worked for the State Dept. in a similar capacity.

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» RE: Marcuse Posted by: redstarwraith
And in regards
Posted by: talkville on Aug 8, 2009 11:17 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to that "redemptive violence" included in that quote which the author uses as the basis for using the term "fascism", Adorno long ago addressed the issue of violence as a means to conserve and "divine violence", this last imposed and carried out by sheer force of power and seeking to found, or to institute a "new way".

It is this second that is relevant in our own recent period. Such a violence has been carried out with increasing intensity in our own land, but not in the physical realm but in the psychological realm, helped immensely by the massive advance in the means of mass-communications. Our natural fear responses have been activated (and I insist exploited) artificially for a long while now, especially after 9/11/01, and they continue to be.

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» RE: And in regards Posted by: reggieperrin
» RE: And in regards Posted by: talkville
big contradiction.
Posted by: reggieperrin on Aug 8, 2009 12:09 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
One question:-

Why do you have a picture of a anti tax protester as the headline for this article ? ... do you not see the contradiction of putting a anti tax demonstrator at the top of a article about FASCISM ????? without taxes NONE of the very WORST fascist regimes could have existed at all, also someone is holding a sign asking "where has the constitution gone", what is fascistic about that ?.

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» RE: big contradiction. Posted by: reggieperrin
Fascism is not divided among party lines.
Posted by: rafaeltoral on Aug 8, 2009 12:17 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The left vs right paradigm is a common tool of division.

In reality both sides are fascist. The illusion of division is more likened to sibling rivalry than anything else. Yeah they fight, and they appear to hate each other, but they are on the same side. It sure as hell is not the side we are on.

You can divide true fascists not by party lines but by bank accounts.

Rich people can be fascist, poor people cannot.
It has always been a class war. ALWAYS!!!!

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That's Right
Posted by: GBMeyers on Aug 8, 2009 12:24 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, let me get this right. The dems control the executive branch. They completely control the house and the senate. They can set aside the filibuster. And yet it is the Republicans fault we are moving toward facism. Makes perfect sense, NOT. We are moving toward facism though. We have put in power the most corrupt administration in US history. They tolerate no dissent (Gee, I though dissent was patriotic), the Democrats are the party that is against free speech! They are the facists (by the way I'm not a Repub., I'm an independent).

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Fascism, Socialism, Communism are all the same.
Posted by: CalKid on Aug 8, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They are not dictatorships, because no one person can hold total power for long.

They are all oligarchies, systems run by the few who have taken power by financial, social or physical force.

The measure of the form of government is simply found by looking at the degree of government control, ranging from dictatorship to anarchy.

Anarchies, too, soon become oligarchies.

Many of the posters on this site don't recognize that we do not have a democratic form of government, nor do they realize that democracies don't work because they eventually become oligarchies.

Democracies, where all vote for evertything, fail because of too many personal interests, leading to mob rule. Mob rule is eventually put down by the sudden taking of the stage by a very strong government, ruled by a few --- an oligarchy.

We have a representative form of government known as a republic. (Nothing to do with the Republican party.)

Benjamin Franklin famously said in reply to the question of what kind of government had been created "A republic, m'am, if you can keep it."

Our government is taking control of our largest corporations. This is fascism in the old Third Reich, and communism in the old Soviet Union.

Names don't define the system. The defining characteristic is the percentage of government control of the economy and the social fabric.

Moderation is the key.

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» don't forget "AmeriKKKism" Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
Thank you! But let's learn the correct lessons from history.
Posted by: manklin on Aug 8, 2009 12:48 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you so much! – Not primarily for saying that the U.S. might be moving toward fascism. I still believe that the cultural, social, and political phenomenon called fascism took place in a particular time period, roughly 1919-1945, and that using it in any other context could be potentially counterproductive. Although certain proto-fascist tendencies are certainly in place in current U.S. right-wing politics and were after World War I as well, as the author points out correctly. Let us heed Marc Bloch's warning about not learning the wrong lessons from history. In a _A Strange Defeat_, Bloch pointed out in 1940 that the French had been successfully invaded and occupied by the Nazis because the French expected a World War I-style of war. The Maginot Line (a series of fortresses along the Franco-German border) could not withstand the German blitzkrieg tactics. The saying, "if we don't learn from history it repeats," is an empty slogan if we operate in a presentist mode. That is, we should not think we can neatly transplant the post-World War I circumstances in Europe (particularly in Germany, Italy, and France, which arguably had the strongest fascist or proto-fascist movements) to the situation in the contemporary United States.

The following is not an empty slogan: "The only constant thing about history is change." We need to remember that we are currently living in a different time and place, and we need to act accordingly. This does not mean that we should not be vigilant and counter proto-fascist tendencies wherever they occur. But it means we should be conscious of the fact that anything akin to fascism, should it reappear, deity of your choice or reason forbid, will most likely appear in a different form than it did in 1919, certain similarities non-withstanding.

Arguably the most blatant difference is that historical fascism was vocally anti-capitalistic and even anti-conservative. The Nazis and the Italian Fascists only cooperated with the traditional social conservatives or big business when it suited their needs. Once in power, both regimes forced big business and conservatives to conform to the fascist world view. In the Italian case this meant subjugating big business to a corporatist economy. In Germany it meant leaving big business alone, as long as big industry cooperated with the Nazi war aims. Which the latter gladly did. Current right-wing proto- fascism is deeply steeped in radical free-market ideology. Historical fascism was not.

In any case, this article is a great step in the right direction; instead of just screaming, "fascism!" as so many completely uniformed people on the right as well as on the left have been doing since 1945, it cites one of preeminent specialists in the field of the study of the history of fascism: Robert Paxton. I have never encountered this in U.S. media before, right-wing, mainstream, or alternative. So thank you! Other specialists include historians Roger Griffin, whom the author also mentions, Stanley G. Payne, Omer Bartov, Geoff Eley, Zeev Sternhell, Ian Kershaw, and Ernst Nolte, among others. Excerpts of their work are all featured in _The Fascism Reader_, edited by A. Kallis.

Let's remain informed and vigilant, but let's counter the current threat in its proper historical context.

With peaceful wishes to all,
M.A.

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hey
Posted by: tazdelaney on Aug 8, 2009 12:49 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
mmcknl, you stole my fave quote by mussolini. as for this being obama's doing, please, while he is an obvious stooge, bush was the most intense corporate-communist in usa history, even beat out reagan and clinton. GAO watchdogs show that behind our backs bush had already 'bailed out' and guaranteed over $12 trillion to the exact corporateist criminals who schemed this disaster and tightening of reins. but obamabush is doing quite a job of giving the ultra-rich and powerful vampires more. the watchdog says the total potential liability of the government is now $23 trillion in a 'worst case scenario' – and when does the government not produce a worst case scenario?

i have a button with garfield the cat thinking to himself, "is it fascism yet?" but the first act of president george washington was to hire mercenary thugs to go kill as many native people in the southeast as possible. payment in gold but only for scalps as proof: full-pay for a man's; half-pay for a woman's and quarter-pay for a child's. sound like nazi mentality to you?

this has long been government by garbage and it stinks worse every day. flat-earther creationists who prefer further enriching corporatist healthcare-pharma-insurance ghouls while 20,000 americans a year die from no coverage or money for extortionate medical costs... how easily led to their own slaughter.

jefferson said, "it is our fervent hope that we shall crush in its infancy the moneyed aristocracy of the corporations which already bid defiance to our revolution and the laws of the country.' franklin said, "tight rein must be kept on the world of business, lest it usurp our liberties and make a sham of our democracy."

but brainwashed ignant idjits will support rapacious laissez faire capitalism run amok on humanity and nature. these think there's nothing wrong with the CEO of walmart making $37 million a year while the average walmart slave makes $9.15 an hour. no problem that the four living walmart heirs who never produced anything in their lives are worth $125billion combined; while it takes 4 walmart slaves to cover a household's rent, food, clothing, shelter. forget health insurance or college for the kids – these things are only for the elite.

this public obviously LIKES being sodomized with sandpaper condoms.

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Why bother? GOD IS ALREADY PUNISHING AMERICA TO ETERNAL DAMNATION !!
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 8, 2009 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Fascism from both parties will guarantee this country's downfall faster than Rome's. This country was already doomed a long time ago !

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» Oh NOZE! We Are DOOMED! We Pissed Off Spongebob! Posted by: woody, tokin' librul
» DOOMED! DOOMED TO TARTARUS! Posted by: foreverhope
Fait accompli: Fascism it is!
Posted by: Jill 2 on Aug 8, 2009 1:04 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
America defaults toward fascism. If a revolutionary situation ever presented itself, fascism would be the result, as it is the true normative standard, as a 'fact on the ground.' Right now, there is merely a de facto fascism, which adequately suits the economic needs of the ruling classes, and most liberals. If a true crisis ever became imminent the already barely masked and deeply militarized American police state would kick into exigent effect. Progressives and liberals, who are insufficiently 'left' to begin with, would soon fall in line and become willing facilitators and collaborators. Why? Simply because they already are! Didn't they vote for Obama? Aren't they members of the Democratic party? Liberalism and progressivism is not left-nihilist enough to counter the Cro-Magnon fascist exuberance now so tumescently visible. Liberalism and Progressivism are cream puff ideologies, totally harmless and impotent. So much so, they continue to have faith in and work with the Democratic party!–(Jill Bains)

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» Good will win over pure Evil Maxie Posted by: foreverhope
"on the BRINK"?!?
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Aug 8, 2009 1:05 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
wake the fuck up.

'brink' my ass.

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simple...
Posted by: tazdelaney on Aug 8, 2009 1:20 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as i keep pointing out...

communism is a POLITICAL system in which power is HORDED into the hands of the very few. less than 3% of the USSR were members of the CCCP.

capitalism is an ECONOMIC system in which wealth and resources are HORDED into the hands of the very few. less than 3% of americans are millionaires and own more than the bottom 90% combined.

Democracy is a POLITICAL system which SHARES power among the many. that, however, is only when it is authentic democracy, not this bribed demockery of the very rich. 98 of the 100 senators are millionaires, averaging $2.3 million each. 86% of representatives in the house are also millionaires. beyond this they are every one bribed by corporations and such as AIPAC. this is pure 'taxation without representation. how can very rich congress and executives and judges possibly represent the will of the non-rich, struggling workers and poor? they don't. observe 6 times congress voted themselves raises before they raised the minimum wage once, and then only to $7.15 an hour, $4.70 after taxes. trillions to bank criminals and war profiteers; lip service to all else.

socialism is an ECONOMIC system which SHARES wealth and resources among the many. again, only if it is a genuine article not robbed by corporatists in drag.

in this light, 97% of humanity would be for socialist democracy with limited mom&pop capitalism's free trade. only 3% have to gain from utter capitalism run amok on man and nature or communism or corporate communism as in china, america, etcetera under the global financial hegemony.

while the rightwing stirs up riots to support the corporate-communists, primarily among their fundamentalist christians... any reading of jesus christ shows he was plainly a socialist revolutionary. check out the sermon on the mount or other of his text. no wonder he was the most eminent revolutionary of the roman empire. today, christ would be denounced as an anarcho-socialist terrorist and be crucified by precisely bible-belters.

here in new york, i've seen the good christians step around dying homeless persons while holding their noses and laughing at 'the least of thy brethren.' spoke with a 93 year old homeless cherokee woman last year, gave her all i could afford. she wept telling me that she is tired. me too, honey. sorry us rabid white christian trash ever came to these once-free, once lovely shores.

as sitting bull said when he was captured and paraded like a dancing bear for show and he saw the homeless in DC... "among our peoples, if one eats; all eat. if one has shelter; all have shelter. now i see the life you have planned for my people." it is apparent who the real savages were... and are.

bush or obamabush, what's the difference; where's the 'change.' wars and torture still reign and hedge-fund managers still make billions a year while us sheep scramble to not be made starving homeless. heaven forbid we get seriously ill in this barbarian land.

you can lead a horse to water...

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» RE: simple... Posted by: Rusty Shackleford
» you can lead a horse to water... .. Posted by: woody, tokin' librul
» RE: simple... Posted by: melloe2
» RE: simple... Posted by: cleojac
» RE: simple... Posted by: talkville
Obama administration asks SCOTUS to block detainee photos !!
Posted by: maxpayne on Aug 8, 2009 1:31 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obama administration asks SCOTUS to block detainee photos

http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0809/25926.html

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» They aren't late, they are stupid Posted by: foreverhope
History never repeats itself in the same way
Posted by: wireup on Aug 8, 2009 1:42 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please keep this in mind!

It's not likely that the Fascist state in which we are now living and will be for the future is going to resemble Nazi Germany, Fascist Italy, or Fascist Spain. It's not likely that we are going to witness goose-stepping Nazis down main street. It's not likely that we are going to witness Nuremburg Rallies.

No. We are living in a different time and have gotten here in a different way. We are not Nazi Germany. BUT we are fascist, an American brand of fascism, if you will. Our Fascism will most likely look different from the European brand.

You might want to take a look at this: In 1944 Henry A. Wallace wrote an article for the NEW YORK TIMES on "The Danger of American Fascism". You can read it here:

http://newdeal.feri.org/wallace/haw23.htm

Incidentally, if you want to see an excellent film on the rise of Fascism in England, see V FOR VENDETTA which came out in 2005. I recommend it highly. Here's some information on it:

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0434409/

and the official website:

http://vforvendetta.warnerbros.com/

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» Bravo! Posted by: luvnrockets
Another film you might want to see
Posted by: wireup on Aug 8, 2009 1:52 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
is THE HANDMAID'S TALE. This tells the story of what happens when Fascism is combined with Theocracy here in America. WELL WORTH WATHCING!!!!

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0099731/

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» RE: And well worth reading Posted by: jackyD
Canada will be on the fascist hit-list
Posted by: frantic1971 on Aug 8, 2009 2:11 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Like some of my other liberal friends, I have been considering moving to Canada. However I am now thinking it may be best to avoid Canada, because once fascism is established in the U.S. there is NO WAY that they will tolerate a liberal country like Canada i.e. government health care in immediate proximity to the U.S. with a long border.

The F.S.A. (Fascist States of America) may initiate some sort of coup in Canada leading to a Vichy-style regime. However given the Canadian's well-know reputation for feistiness, the F.S.A. may use Hitler's tactic that he used on Austria---forment internal troubles and then use that as an excuse to send in the troops. In other words an outright Anschluss with our northern neighbor.

Canada's natural resources, especially oil, make it a particularly attractive target.

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» I disagree Posted by: LeaderofMen
re american fascism
Posted by: tazdelaney on Aug 8, 2009 2:29 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
as i said earlier, fascism came ashore here in 1492 and george washington's first act as president was to hire mercenary thugs like blackwater to go kill indians in the southeast.

but it should also be noted that one senator prescott BUSH, who was also at the same time an executive of brown bros harriman the long-running wall street firm, was convicted in 1942 of 'trading with the enemy' yet never did a day in jail, as he was rich and had strings to pull.

his strings included the very men whose money and technologies he routed to the nazis over many years while herbert hoover and FDR looked on. these investors in the german nazi empire were such american industrialists as rockefeller, ford, chrysler, jp kennedy, dupont and the usual suspects.

this was the finding of the long-suppressed DoJ study into who financed the nazis. there's a great BBC 2-part series called banking on hitler and banking with hitler. the second show documents where all the nazi loot went to... german american pharma companies and such. no wonder you don't see this show in america.

72% of nazi dough came from these americans and 17% from british aristocracy. so who were the real nazis? same question as 'who are the REAL terrorists.'

many of the nazi ovens were manufactured in youngstown, ohio, to mass-body-burning specifications... hey, got a problem with free enterprise capitalism?

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» RE: A 2 Rating Posted by: desidid
"people at the very top of the power structure."
Posted by: oregoncharles on Aug 8, 2009 2:57 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
From the article - supposedly the Republican allies of the new Brownshirts.

Here I thought the "people at the very top of the power structure" were all Democrats, starting with Obama.

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» My, my! You Are A Bit of a Naif, Nest Paw? Posted by: woody, tokin' librul
The Wars of the 20th Century
Posted by: woody, tokin' librul on Aug 8, 2009 3:07 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Wars of the 20th Century were all fought to decide which variety of Fascism would prevail.

"Ours"--the fascism of the market--won. Along the way we cast off theoratic fascism (the Japanese model), Stalinism, Nazism, as well as Mussolini's own version (which owed MUCH to the hierarchical structures of the 19th Century RC Church). Since WW II, other varieties have been attempted and failed: Argentina, Chile, and now Honduras.

Since fascism is always a product of particular local conditions, it is probably fruitless to try to name a certain set of conditions as being the "universal" proximate or distant causes/symptoms.

Remember, almost 75 years ago, both Huey Long and almost simultaneously Sinclair Lewis declared that when Fascism came the the USofA, it would come wrapped in the flag and waving the Bible. That seems to have been proven.

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Ridiculous Analysis and Inferences
Posted by: dayahka on Aug 8, 2009 3:20 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Yes, we are seeing increasing disorder (entropy) in the body politic, but this is to be expected in this time of turmoil and new directions. But this attempt to impose the pattern of Fascism onto events is ridiculous: the author mistakes imaginings for trends, signs for evidence.

For Step 1, there may well be a guts and soil movement coming from the rural hinterlands, but these are mainly in the South, and the rural systems in the different regions of the country are totally different. There is no homogeneous rural movement. There is no longer a majority of white, male, Christian, anti-intellectuals. There is no clear separation between the white and the non-white peoples. There is no way there will be a white against black purging, largely due to a huge Hispanic population that is as well-armed as the whites, and more vicious in their use of force if they have to be. Trying to forge a unified rural or anti-intellectual system would result in one major civil war that the whites would not win. What we see in this situation is really the rearguard actions of a group that has already lost power and hope--and all they have left is pompous pretense.

Thus we're definitely not at any Step 2, with the rurales turning into a party. The rural folks have been used by the Republicans for their own purposes, giving them lip service, but no rewards.

And we're most definitely not in any Step 3 or beyond. Progressives aren't being harassed. They people being harassed are basically the rich (bankers) and those they support (politicians), and probably rightly so.

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Tried to Google "The Family" C Street House in DC and was threatened!!!
Posted by: marletat on Aug 8, 2009 3:53 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Norton Protected me but ???? I never saw anything like it. David Berg started the Family in the 60s and it developed in to child abuse, molestation, pedophilia, I got to the point where it almost said it was one in the same with "The Family" Where Ensign, Coburn, Brownback stayed and Sandford came for guidance on his infidelity. I believe there is a documentary on MSNBC Killer Cult, Rick Rodriquez.

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Fascism or none, we're being sold out to China regardless.
Posted by: Benn_Miller on Aug 8, 2009 4:42 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Reading through these comments and the article, I don't want to go negative anymore about this than the rest but here's my take. While I did not vote for Obama last year, I do not think that he is a fascist by himself. He has company and he chose to be part of that company. I chose Nader because I could not trust Obama the more he flipped on every issue. I don't see Obama changing his position of going to the right any time soon. I don't think that the USA will be a totally fascist nation but I do