GOP & Dems, Dems & GOP - two sides of the same coin. Barack Obama is a mouthpiece for US ruling oligarchy, like G.W. Bush was before him.

In case you haven't noticed Mr. "Yes, we can" continued Bush's policies, decided to sustain two wars, voted for G.W's initial bailout and made a bail-the-rich continuation of the same.

This charade keeps the peasants happy: blah-blah - GOP is smearing Obama's birth certificate! vs. blah-blah - Obama is killing American liberties! Grand show by GOP & Dems creates a façade of two-party system and an illusion that Americans actually have a choice. Thief versus Robber = Republican versus Democrat, best of all it is the same gang.

In case you haven't noticed whichever faction "wins" it will keep the other intact as they are both part of the same package and parcel. The people will waste time and energy battling these non issues (who the heck cares about the lying shithead's birth certificate?) instead of focusing on important questions. You know, like the reform of the political system, economic and social reform, introduction of multi-party system (god-forbid, it would break the current monopoly of power) etc.

Barack's birth certificate controversy - what a farce.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

So, where's the birth certificate? The original (or State-sealed, certified copy of) the long-form birth certificate that every single U.S. citizen born on U.S. soil gets?

Where is it? Why hasn't it been released? Why aren't copies of it printed in every newspaper around the country? All anybody would have to do to end all this madness is show the damn piece of paper. That hasn't been done yet. Period.

"But blah blah blah," you're sure to reply in a typical smug manner so common to the anti-birthers.

Save your breath - just show me the piece of paper. That's all it'll take.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Conspiracy Theory Goes Factual On Obama.
http://www.earthfrisk.com/blog/?p=142

(please see site for links in excerpt below - not clickable here without HTML formatting)

(excerpted)
FACT : The State of Hawaii issues REAL birth certificates to people born in other nations like Russia, Japan, China and Kenya. Link (with direct links to Hawaii’s online pages stating this , More info - Link , Link

FACT: Only the vault copy of an American citizen’s birth certificate will tell what nation you were born in if you have a real Hawaiian birth certificate Thousands of people born in South Africa, Australia and Indonesia have real authentic birth certificates that Snopes and Factcheck would say were real, all in the state of Hawaii. Isn’t Hawaii interesting?

FACT: The President of the United States has now spent hundreds of thousands of dollars to prevent you from seeing his vault copy. Hmmm. (5 links - see website)

FACT: Why this matters - there are 3 requirements to become President of the United States:
1. You must be 35 years of age
2. You must be a resident of the US for 14 years
3. You must be a natural born citizen of the United States.

The bottom line of this is if there is nothing to hide, why is Obama still hiding it and why does he and his legal team think that you and I have no right to question his qualifications?

Something to think hard about as lawsuit after lawsuit is filed, and yet Obama will not let us see his birth certificate.

FACT : The State of Hawaii NEVER said Obama was born in Hawaii. They only stated that they have seen the original Hawaii birth certificate and that it is real, just like the thousands of other REAL original birth certificates in Hawaii of people born in other nations. Like Obama’s sister who also has a REAL HAWAIIAN birth certificate, yet she was born in Indonesia! Are you thinking yet?

Here’s Hawaii’s press release after Obama went to Hawaii this past October. Notice how they will NEVER say he was actually born in Hawaii. From this release the media which is all too biased comes up with articles such as this and even better click here and see how the media just makes up a fact - Hawaii saying that Barack was born there. They did not. Read the first line. Notice also how they keep repeating they hold or have seen the original birth certificate. Strange how we can’t see it huh! Aren’t you curious? Don’t we have a right to know? This is still our country right?

Want to See A Real Hawaii Long Form Vault copy?
Born in China but has a “Certificate of Hawaiian Birth”. No less than the Father of Modern China, the great hero, Dr. Sun Yat-Sen!!!

The leader of Nationalist China also has a real authentic Hawaiian birth certificate yet he was born in China. See it and what a real birth certificate in Hawaii in early 1960s should look like. This is for those of you who still point to the forgery on Obama’s website and cited by Factcheck and Snopes as real. For God sakes people just look at the 2007 borders! Click here
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
for the record, neither i nor many others are drawing attention to this issue for racist motives. i've marched for civil rights in NYC since 1963, later in Miami and Reno, NV.

i began detecting obama's lies (esp. re: his allegiance to common working class america) since his presidential campaign: no intention of ending the bogus war on terror, bailed out billionaire bankers, voted for amnesty for the illegal telecom spying, STILL RESERVES AMERICA'S RIGHT TO TORTURE, insists on public health insurance instead of universal health care, against the wishes of 75% of american voters.

i voted for Cynthia McKinney, green party, a black woman with a black woman VP on the same ticket.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If you look for racism that hard, you'll find it whether it's there or not. I'll bet the author of this article would find racism if I go to an ice cream shop and order a scoop of vanilla. This is a case of connecting arbitrary dots to support an accusation in an attempt to get the rhetoric of the day on this subject.

Well I suppose it worked because I addressing it here, but just as most of the country thinks that the 'birthers' are a bunch of kooks, I hope that most folks can see through this blatant attempt to get the "R" word applied to anyone who is not for Obama.

Let's see. Now I didn't vote for Obama and back some years ago, I also didn't support Jesse Jackson either. I guess I'm a racist too. Obviously the only reason I voted for Alan Keyes was to throw everyone off. I'm only claiming to like Clarence Thomas just to cover my racism.

Is this where we're at in this country? There is a racist under every rock it seems. People, I know that there is racism, but let's at least have something a little more concrete that this to make an actual accusation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I guess if you can't win, you can pretend to get the other guy on a technicality. This is the classic stratagem of sore losers.


Holes in History

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What should concern us is why some fear a thorough investigation?

A country that continues to Lie to itself, marginalizes itself.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

For a progressive site who seeks to find truth, you have totally failed when it comes to the "birthers."

The issue is NOT whether Obama is a citizen??? It is highly likely that he is citizen but a Native Born citizen, not a natural born citizen. You see, IF you knew the Constitution and the laws passed in the mid 1790s to clarify the natural born issue, you would KNOW that:

1. Only a NATURAL Born citzen can be POTUS. You can be either a Native Citizen or naturalized citizen and run for IL Senator and any other public office.
2. The mid 1790s laws clarified the Constitution by saying that a natural born citizen has to have BOTH parents be citizens for 5 years. Obama's father was a Kenyan citizen, although his mother, 18 at the time of birth, was a USA citizen. Obama publicly has said many times that his father was Kenyan. Conclusion? Obama is a native citizen.

I could go on and on about issues of passports, Occidental College, etc. BUT I KNOW there won't be dispassionate and objective dialogue. I fully expect that I will be attacked as a racist rather than any objective "opening of eyes" to the FACTS behind the "birther's claims. Shoot away.

I doubt if the owners of AlterNet would ever allow me to make an article with the FACTS so those who wish to know the facts can contact me at captainmoroni2009@live.com. FYI, I doubt that I will be overwhelmed with emails.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Truthers are not "birthers" no matter how much the msm tries to confuse the two, and this ongoing attempt to slow the progress of the 9/11 truth movement will fail.

Every day more and more people are seeing the obvious controlled demolition of WTC 7 and finding out the true facts regarding that tragic day. Every day more people are seeing the massive corruption destroying our country and are refusing to accept the lies and deceit that are used to perpetuate it.

Every day more people are realizing that we are the leaders we have been waiting for and are taking a stand.

We don't buy the lies anymore, Alternet, and the sooner you start reporting reality the better your chance of surviving the coming revolution.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

 
Even after our “most trusted newscaster” ripped them a new one,
the propagandists, the sociopathic collaborators, and their deranged,
and dangerously moronic followers keep harping on it like the Borg.

Such is the horrific comedy our times, (sigh...)
 

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Go to Snopes.com and enter "Obama's birth certificate." They will explain in detail why this is a bunch of hogwash perpetrated by people who just are unable to deal with the fact that a black man with the foreign sounding name of Barack Obama is President of the U.S.A. You may agree or disagree with his politics, but this birth certificate issue is pure grade Z bullshit. Yeah, racism exists in our country. DUH!!! It exists all over the world! Laws can prevent the government from giving it a big "thumbs up," but peoples' hearts cannot be changed by laws. I'm just glad I got to live to see a minority President elected in the U.S. After living through the 50's and 60's, I never thought it would happen, but here it is! I only hope he can do a decent job. So far, I'm not real sure. But then again, Bush is a hard act to follow. (Yeah.....RIGHT!!!!!!)

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The 'birthers' claims are not just about Racism, it is about power and control. A major part of the 'birthers' are unrepentent right-winger Republicans, who have lost control of the President, Senate and Congress to the Democrats. They are seeking any way to confuse, distract and make illegitment Pres. Obama's place in office so they can return to power by any means necessary.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I cannot think of one other first-world country that would be having this argument almost nine months after a leader was elected.

Can anyone seriously believe that during the two years or so of pre-election campaigning, during which time Obama raised over $750 million in backing, nobody would have gone over this matter with a fine-tooth comb?

It's racism, pure and simple. As someone mentioned before, when Bush was called out on his National Guard nonsense there was hell to pay; Dan Rather lost his job over it.

We were told that we had to give a wartime (Hah!) president due respect as C-in-C. Yet it's open season on Obama from day one.

I am not an Obama supporter; I am not even that interested in American domestic politics. But how do you expect the rest of the world to take you seriously when you spend so much time and energy maligning a man simply because of the colour of his skin?

You should be ashamed of yourselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Barack Hussein Obama was born on August 4, 1961 in the state of Hawaii. That was the week the Berlin Wall went up.

Coincidence? I wonder.

This evil, subversive plot has been in the making for damned near forty-eight years! By all evidence, since the moment of Obama's birth! Here is a question that all good and decent Americans should demand an immediate answer to: Was the newspaper, the Honolulu Advertiser, in on the scheme when they printed little Barack's bogus birth announcement on August 9, 1961? Just where the hell does that paper lean editorially? To the hard Left, I strongly suspect. Wouldn't that just figure!

The NAACP, in coercion with the American Communist Party, Democracy NOW and Ed Asner, concocted this evil plot deep in the basement of Norm Chomskey's home in Cambridge, Massachusetts in the midst of a week-long peyote mushroom binge. The elevation of this dangerous and subversive man to the highest office in this grand and glorious land of ours is only the first step in their dastardly plan. Their next objective will be to force our daughters - our little personifications of patriotism and purity - to court and co-mingle with NEGROES.

Before very long our children - your children - will be physically forced to memorize whole chapters of James Baldwin's "Native Son" and "The Autobiography Of Malcolm X". Trust me, it's only a matter of time.

They must be stopped. Now is the time for all good men to come to the aid of the country that we all hold so dear to our freedom-loving hearts. America is falling; victimized by forces who would put a foreign-born A-Rab in the seat that was once held by the sainted Ronald Reagan - RONALD REAGAN, I TELL YOU!

My friends, now is not the time for the faint-of-heart. It a time for boldness and stoutness of mind and spirit. Only our collective intestinal fortitude will defeat the Liberal cabal - those nattering nabobs of negativism - who would burn our beloved country down. The time has come to give America back to the real Americans. My fellow citizens, you ignore me at your own peril....

And one more thing we must never ever forget: Barack and Michelle Obama named their two daughters, "Sasha" and "Malia". What's that all about?

Of course, what you just read is meant as satire. Only a complete and utter fool could possibly take any of it seriously. The really disturbing thing, however, is the fact that there are millions of people out there who would read those last five paragraphs and wouldn't even come close to getting the joke. While there is plenty of satirical gold to be siphoned from the bottomless mine that these lunatics have provided us with, they have created a dangerous atmosphere that is enabling nuttiest angels of the American nature. That is something that would do us all well to think about.

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY
tomdegan@frontiernet.net

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Time for everyone to get a copy of 1984 in their hands and see that AlterNet and the mainstream media now function just as Orwell's "Hall of Truth" functioned.

Revisionism is rampant--and those who revise the truth to make enforced truth are increasingly desperate to hold to power.

The truth will set us free.

Those who speak the truth (nano-thermite, WTC7, Pentacon, Oklahoma City bombing inside job) are ridiculed here by the owners of AlterNet.

"Truth lives a wretched life, but it outlives a lie every time!"

"Have I now become your enemy for telling you the truth?" Gal 5:12

"Make the lie big, make it simple, keep saying it, and eventually they will believe it." -- Joseph Goebbels

"Hell is truth seen too late...duty neglected in its season."- Tryon Edwards

Give/loan copies of 1984 to those who've not yet learned about the "Hall of Truth".

He-brews up a batch of lies to cover crimes and misdeeds--like a brat child who won't confess.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I have not seen one iota of proof that this guy was born here in the US of A. If they want to quell this birther thing, than all he has to do is provide the real certificate. The one from Hawaii is not the original and I have seen it written where the hospital claims he was not born there. For $20.00 you can get the original, so what the hell is the problem. I'll give him the 20 bucks to get it. I'm tired of hidden politics in this country. All the questions would go away if he just proved he was born in this country. NO ONE should have a problem with this question, after all "We the People" have a right to question everything.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Thank you! This is one of the most astute and insightful analyses I've ever read on the collective mindset that so much of "white America" buys into. I am a product of that mindset myself - though in no way do I ever feel compelled to propagate it.

It is not "white guilt" that I feel. I just do not understand why so many white people find it so hard to denounce racism except when they feel it affects "their own race" in some perverse idea of "reverse" racism.

What do any of US get out of that? How do whites ever feel like we all have anything in common other than our imaginary sense of superiority. Superiority owing to what? I don't get it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Does anybody seriously think that the Democrats would nominate a presidential candidate whose US citizenship was in doubt?

Even if debunked, the GOP would find some other "red herring!"

Terry

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

that's all they Got??
I'll See Their Birth cert and raise them an Indictment against Cheney!!!
No doubt most of these 'Birthers' are racist, fearful that if Obama is proven Legitimate (and competent), there will never be another White male in the WH.Oh Yea of lil' faith in your own gender & race. A textbook example of over compensation due to Low self esteem .
But what I think the Politico's find so appealing about perpetuating this hysteria is that it deflects away from the Volumes of High Crimes investigations and accusations against the Bush Admin, esp Cheney and the Repug party in general.
When it comes to determining Who's a patriot and who is not....Cheney is the one wearing the Red Coat, and his co conspirators are wearing the matching Red Ties.
so instead of repeatedly displaying the Official Obama Birth Cert- we should be handing these Birthers a copy of Kucinich's Articles of Impeachment against Bush & Cheney- and all the proceeding investigative pieces on his Assassination squad and his desire to release the military on US cities, and ...
While obsessing over IF Obama WILL present a danger to the US (since apparently ALL foreigners are out to destroy the US- even our ancestors??), the politicos are hoping no one will mention who HAS been a danger to (and already destroyed) the US.
What it comes down to is the Fact a Birth certificate does not dicatate a persons Patriotism- but his actions do. Cheney et al may have been 'natural born' but they have done everything in their powers (and above) to create the economic and military clusterfucks we now face.What is more poignant is the fact he exercised powers above his post and undermined the system of check and balances. Cheney IS an Treasonous Illegitmate Bastard!
Benedict Arnold was born here...so was Timothy McVeigh...And Charlie Manson (and His "Family")....But Our Lady Liberty was not, she's French/Italian to be exact. Who would you rather have representing US?
The Politicos are hoping the Racists add enough fuel to this that the evidence against Cheney, and themselves, will go up in smoke.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It doesn't take a genius to see that birthers are nothing more than morons with huge mouths. That includes those in Congress.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Using the tired litany of "racism" and or "conspiracy" to cover up Government Lies & Fraud

Alternet and its allies in the corporate government media monopoly again using "conspiracy" and "racism" to blind you all to the real issues.

Do you really BELIEVE that the corporate government now in place does not routinely CREATE FALSE documents?

They did it multiple times, and still do it. Are you all that monumentally naive?

Do you all really trust your cherished corporate government now in place?

http://www.infowars.com/

The New York Times claims the Obama birth certificate issue is “a rumor that has been widely discredited,” and yet the state of Hawaii, where Obama was allegedly born, refuses to release the primary birth certificate document, instead offering this image, declared to be a Photoshop fake.

It is an obvious fake for the following reasons: 1) the document does not have a raised, embossed seal 2) it is not signed (take a look at your birth certificate and see if it has the signature of a physician or hospital officials) 3) there are no creases from folding in the scanned version above 4) the certificate number is redacted 5) the document claims to be a “certification of birth,” not a “certificate of birth,” and 6) the date supposedly bleeding through the back of the document says 2007, not 2008, when it was allegedly released.

The Annenberg Political Factsheet claims to have examined the original document and says it is legitimate (see Born in the U.S.A., The truth about Obama’s birth certificate). “Recently FactCheck representatives got a chance to spend some time with the birth certificate, and we can attest to the fact that it is real and three-dimensional and resides at the Obama headquarters in Chicago. We can assure readers that the certificate does bear a raised seal, and that it’s stamped on the back by Hawaii state registrar Alvin T. Onaka.”

Annenberg is a less than credible source considering Obama was chairman of the Annenberg Challenge in Chicago. One of his cohorts in that position was none other than the terrorist Bill Ayers.

Instead of releasing the original document, the Obama administration trots out White House press secretary Robert Gibbs to make sarcastic comments about those crazy birthers. Gibbs’ comments reveal the Obama administration and his supporters are sincerely worried about the issue.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This whole issue should have gone away last year, but when you are dealing with people who think the world is 6000 years old, 9/11 was an inside job, the holocaust never happened, we never landed on the moon, and global warming doesn't exist, you are wasting your time trying to reason with the unreasonable. Here is the best information I have found on the birth certificate:

http://www.factcheck.org/elections-2008/born_in_the_usa.html

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

why he doesn't produce the original long form that his parents received, he doesn't have it. This is very common, especially here on the gulf coast where so many people lost family documents. I remember seeing my long form birth certificate and a newer but still very old copy issued by the health department. Alas, they are both gone and no matter what I do I will never be able to produce those types of documents to prove my birth.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

""If Barack Obama was an Irish American or a Polish American or a German American, there would be no discussion anywhere in this country about his citizenship,"""

How racist can one get! Obama being black has nothing to do with it.. The fact that his father was not a citizen and he was born overseas leads to this speculation. Do remember that McCain's place of birth was also questioned!

Obama has been less than open about many things in his life..school, how he got into Harvard, how he paid for Harvard etc.. His actions have left the door open for this!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

So what is AlterNet's purpose in continuing to keep this story alive?
It seems the author wants to characterize anyone disagreeing with Obama, on anything, as a racist, not just "birthers."
But what do I know.
I'm just an ignorant cracker who voted for him.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

WIth AlterNet and Zionist trolls here linking the birthers with 9/11 truthers, I want to say that I wish the birthers would investigate 9/11 with the sense of discernment and detail that they use to insist on ironclad proof of Obama's claim that he is a natural born citizen.

RIdicule and conflating the birther issue with 9/11 are intellectually dishonest techniques.

Both the birther issue and the 9/11 evidence have sufficient proofs to be tested in court and in the case of 9/11, with a real investigation.

70,000 petition signers were turned down by the city clerk in New York at getting an item on the November ballot to create a new investigation into 9/11. Democracy denied.

What a good idea. We can fulfill on the fears of AlterNet trolls and controllers. Let's recruit birthers into the 9/11 truth movement.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Dems, GOP - they're both right and they're both wrong; but they're not going anywhere.

Of course, racism is behind it. What else would it be?

Arnold Schwarzeneggar, Gov of CA -- no one mentioned a word about his birth certificate and he's an American immigrant not born here who could potentially run for US President, and might win.

John McCain -- not born on US soil at all. No one has said a word about his birth certificate. Obama was more qualified to run for president than him--at least he was born on AMERICAN soil. But it's the same as with those Mickey Mouse votes and monopoly money that planted in ACORN and tried to pin on Obama; and that whole Wm Ayers BS.

It's the usual, same-o, same-o 'black tax' being charged against the president.

The hurdles are fixed so we can't get over them, and IF we happen to do it anyway, the game gets changed to make sure it doesn't happen again; regardless of the fact that we won fair and square and overcame the racist hurdles that were already in place. It's the same reason for no politics in church. Fear of another Dr Martin Luther King Jr arising from the pulpits. Laws got changed after he was killed to make sure that never happened again. Now all Negroes in church preach about is BS that they're not even spiritually nor economically privvy to. Crap like "prosperity thinking" that doesn't even apply to them.

Bla-sey skippy-doo-da-day is right and retards will be retards no matter what you do. There are people who hate he's president just because he's black. For them, he wasn't supposed to win just for that factor alone.

They can't believe their KKKrakka world has come crashing down around them. But other black people, the ones these violent and insane murderous spirits can get to, will be punished in his place. That's how they roll.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the DEMS and Obama; like the Ayers/Terrorist non-issue that these morons were clinging to pre-election, this issue will only alienate and piss off normal Americans.

So, keep it up morons!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why does someone always have to come along and make a "black thang" out of it? NEver fails.

RT
Ultimate Anonymity

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

......from the appropriate days in court. Cambridge/Harvard scholarships--awarded to a "foreign student applicant"? Passport that got Obama into Pakistan at a time when State Department refused such passage to Americans.....what country's passport got Obama to Pakistan? And, of course the original birth certificate.

As a 9/11 truther, I'm now welcoming any and all "Hall of Truth" (1984) lies be revealed--even about Obama's ineligibility to be President--and I voted for Obama.

Sidetrack opponents with name calling and ridicule. This is also known as the primary 'attack the messenger' ploy, though other methods qualify as variants of that approach. Associate opponents with unpopular titles such as 'kooks', 'right-wing', 'liberal', 'left-wing', 'terrorists', 'conspiracy buffs', 'radicals', 'militia', 'racists', 'religious fanatics', 'sexual deviates', and so forth. This makes others shrink from support out of fear of gaining the same label, and you avoid dealing with issues.

Question motives. Twist or amplify any fact which could be taken to imply that the opponent operates out of a hidden personal agenda or other bias. This avoids discussing issues and forces the accuser on the defensive.

Become incredulous and indignant. Avoid discussing key issues and instead focus on side issues which can be used show the topic as being critical of some otherwise sacrosanct group or theme. This is also known as the 'How dare you!' gambit.

Change the subject. Usually in connection with one of the other ploys listed here, find a way to side-track the discussion with abrasive or controversial comments in hopes of turning attention to a new, more manageable topic. This works especially well with companions who can 'argue' with you over the new topic and polarize the discussion arena in order to avoid discussing more key issues.

I invite you, Liliana, to look at http://ae911truth.org and read about the attack on the USS Liberty to get it that our government does lie to us--as a matter of routine.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

DISTRACTION BY FREAKNUTS TO
DISTRACT FROM HORROR OF 20 YEARS OF INEPT DISASTROUS MANAGEMENT

1980
600B budget to 4000B in 2009
1000B Debt to 11,000B in 2009

20 years=23M net new jobs
12 years=33M (carter + clinton)

Redistribution of Wealth + Income

Today 1% own 21% and 10% own 71% of Total Individual Personal Wealth

From 1946 to 1981 each Percentile increased in wealth + income almost evenly on percentage basis

It was known as Picket Fence Distribution

Reagan started Step Ladder distribution and Bush accelerated it.

Each step gained a little but Top Step went to own 71%.

Middle Class shall Revolt.

Les Miserables ahead

cswinney2@triad.rr.com

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Perfect example of dishonest dialogue. Thank you for making the pint that many on AlterNet are dishonest intellectually

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

How right you are! Now people like Lou Dobbs make a lot of money on melt downs over nothing. Ignoring them is the way to go. Anna

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Indeed. I blame the GOP for coaxing them out from under their rocks and giving their paranoid delusions legitimacy. In any other society they would be institutionalized, here they are given prime-time air time.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ya before 19 Arab hillbillies brought down 3 towers into their own footprints with 2 planes. In the good old days everyone would have accepted THAT!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Well! The nuts are out! I didn't think that wacko paranoid conspiracy theorists would even bother to read the Alternet.

Personally, I don't believe any of you nut-jobs are citizens because I haven't seen a birth certificate! If you're not a citizen, then you don't have the right to free speech. I wasn't there, I didn't see you born in this country! You nuts could have been born in Saudi Arabia for all I know! It will take more than a birth certificate. I want testimonials from medical staff, I want investigations, I want documentation! Being a paranoid conspiracy theorist birther takes work and requires U.S. citizenship! Not just anyone can be a nut-job! Show proof or shut up!

DOWn, baby, DOWn!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama was raised by white people in white communities, went to elite white schools including private high school, and pretends he is black.

Aside from a kenyan father he barely saw once, and a kenyan family he's had nothing to do with, he is white. He suckered the press and the crying, weeping liberals into thinking the "first" black President had been elected.

That, and not the stupid birth certificate issue, is the swindle Barry Obama has pulled.

His policies will benefit academic upper middle class grad school degree holders the most, leaving blacks and working class whites in the dust. As for blacks, their disdain in general for rigorous education instead of sports and bad pop music will leave them in the dust of their own making.

At least Obama doesn't pretend to be a street black.. Just being 'black' is enough for his guilt ridden stupid white college grad admirers and the black population which will get nada from this fraud.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It is not about the birth certificate.

Mr. Obama has openly provided information that if one knew the Constitution would have had questions about his eligibiltiy during the campaign. His claim to be a citizen under the 14th amendment, his admission that we was born with dual citizenship, his Kenyan father, and his adoption in Indonesia, is what we should be debating not his birth certificate.

Natural born citizen must mean one who is a citizen by no act of law. If a person owes their citizenship to some act of law, they can not be considered to be natural-born citizen.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The birthers are actually claiming that Obama's birth was a miracle. His birth is a sign. Soon they will be worshiping him as a new God.

You see, he was born in Kenya, even though his mother was in Hawaii at the time.

As Philip Ochieng, a friend of Obama's father and a respected Kenyan journalist wrote: Obama's mother never stepped foot in Kenya while Obama Sr was living. Therefore, it must have been a miraculous birth.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Little Murders

I call them Little Murders. Maybe, I should call them accessories to Little Murders. Either way, they are the things that people say that diminish or degrade other people. We hear them all of the time. Bigotry and racism can be a very subtle thing. In fact, it is the subtle that can be the most damaging.

You see, it has always been that “little murders” preceded the real murders. The holocaust could never have happened if the awful remarks had not proceeded it. A young black man in Mississippi would not have been beaten to death for whistling at a white woman if the awful words had not been used first. I cannot even bring myself to even write the “n” word but how many times have you heard it said. A gay man would not have been tied to a fence and beaten to death if there had not been first the awful words---fagot, queer, homo, etc. And then there is the “wink, wink, nod, nod,” comments that say it all about those that we want to set apart. I read now that the hate groups are using the immigration issue to recruit for their hateful purposes. Will we always find a way to hate somebody? Will it ever end?

Are we being an accessory to a “little murder if we listen to these remarks and say nothing? I think so. Is it too embarrassing to call someone out that says these things? I think not. Is it worth a moment of embarrassment to do so. You tell me. Bigotry, prejudice, racism, anti Semitism, and homophobia, are set ablaze by the hate mongers but they are fueled by the indifferent. Where do you stand?

That is the bad news. But, there is also the good news. I sat in the stands at a high school wrestling match last weekend. I watched as Afro-Americans and white kids wrestled each other, horsed around on the mats together between matches, and laughed and joked together. I watched as white female wrestlers (still somewhat of a shock to an old timer) did the same, wrestling young black men, horsing around together, and laughing and joking together. Could this be? Forty years ago when I was a civil rights activist in the South, those young men would have been beaten, lynched, and thrown in the river for even whistling at the young ladies. Now, here they were doing what wrestlers do to each other when they wrestle and to them it was the most natural thing in the world. My gosh, I thought, things really have changed. There is an Afro American that is running for President and has a very good chance of making it. Borack Obama is a US Senator from Illinois. He was elected in a state that South of Chicago is not exactly a liberal bastion. The young people in particular don’t give a darn if he is Black or White. They like him, his message and because he is close to their age they feel a kinship. Not all to be sure, but enough to make a difference.

I think back forty years and the days in Alabama and Georgia. Maybe, someday, “little murders” will be as much a thing of the past as the crimes that they preceded.

I realize that yes, things have changed -- not yet what it should be and hopefully not what it will be, but by gosh, not what it use to be! Free at last? Not quite, but a heck of a lot closer!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

the gov't backed down on this lawsuit and Cook was not deployed.

from the article;
After the revocation of the order to deploy, Judge Clay Land sided with the defense, finding Cook’s suit “moot” in that he already has been told he doesn’t have to go to Afghanistan, eliminating his need for relief from the court. ”Federal court only has authority of actual cases and controversies,” Judge Land said according to the Miami Herald. “The entire action is dismissed for lack of subject matter jurisdiction.”

Therefore, the U.S. government has signaled it would rather not take up the issue since their boss would have to finally come clean and present clear and convincing evidence of his status of “natural born citizen”. However, the actions of the U.S. government make it seem that he likely wasn’t, and they are willing to give an “out” to any soldier who follows the footsteps of Major Cook in order to not have to deal with such a troublesome fact.

linked text

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I think there is a bigger segment of the population involved. I call this segment the Palin patriot pals or better yet Hannity’s world. A racial subgroup is only a part of this larger segment. This segment of the population views their world in decline. Like a wolf with its leg caught in a trap, individuals within this segment can become very dangerous whichever subgroup they come from. They would rather fight than switch.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

We all hear how well spoken and brilliant Obama is, but for a smart man he is making alot of dumb decisions. But wait. What I think are his dumb decisions are precisely what he smartly intended to do while he was promising us "change", which we also misinterpreted. I admit he is a smart man when it comes to illusions then smoothly moon walks backwards. He is doing what he was elected to do...and We know he was elected not by me nor you but by the corporate wealthy who pared our choice to few. We are walking contradictions each with a different view. And never the twain shall meet here in the Ununited States.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Racism has nothing to do with it. He is a lying fake to the bone, from his high minded talk on health care and Afghanistan down to his sealed birth certificate.

He spent about a million dollars on legal fights to keep his birth records sealed, and then posted on the web a newly printed summarization with stark discrepancies to reality.

"African" was not on a race on US birth certificates in 61, for one thing. For another, why are his actual records still sealed, and we have to rely on a summary that they "vouch for"? Isn't he the only president in history now who sealed his actual birth records? It's not racism to see something is a lie, even if it has to do with race.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The origins of the allegation that President Obama isn't a citizen is so ignorant that it's funny. Obama was born in Hawaii, which is one of the two newest states. Someone came up with the notion that Hawaii wasn't yet a state when Obama was born, so the spin was that Obama isn't really a US citizen -- and a movement was born! AFTER this effort was launched, someone did the math. Hawaii became a state in 1959. Obama was born in 1961. Oops. Then we had the inconvenient fact that Obama's opponent, John McCain, actually wasn't born in the US; he was born in the Panama Canal zone.
No matter, the Birther movement was launched.

Interestingly, I've yet to hear the call for the release of birth certificates for EVERY
person in government office, so we can see for ourselves if they meet the citizenship requirements of their office. One can argue that the Republican leadership has so intensely worked against the best interests of the US since the '80s that they just might be foreign-born "plants" whose job it is to destroy the US. After all, it's a given in the international community that the surest way to destroy the US is to destroy its economy.

Shouldn't the public demand the release of the birth certificates every Republican in federal office?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

My sister was born overseas, because my father was in the Army, would anyone like to challenge her citzenship? The people of Hawaii don't like mainlanders for just this reason, they are made to feel foreign. And why wouldn't they be, they certainly don't look American (blonde hair, blue eyed). I imagine if I were in another country looking at America now I would have found our weakness. Our weakness is we don't believe our Constitution. There is a reason that Al Queda has been able to recruit American citizens, because those people know we don't believe in our Constitution. The world knows we pay lip service to the notion of equality. We are not an equal nation, we are a nation of stigmas. We ask people who look like Obama to go to war and kill people because, this is the only nation where "real equality" exist. I got swept up in the possibility of an Obama presidency, today I am right back in 1964. This nation has not changed in my lifetime, the lie is bigger and uglier, because the possibility of a Black president being judged by his good or bad works are gone.

The birthers have won one thing, today there are thousands of Black Americans who once had hope for this nation, and our place in it. Today I see the people who have been elected to make the laws as the hooded creatures they really are. And the people who elected them are like-minded.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Come on Who was the illegitmate POTUS who continues to rear his Ugly head in his own defense of his acts of Abuse of power, Treason, War crimes.... DICK.
This is not so much about casting doubt on Obama's legitmacy as much as a distraction away from Cheney's illegitimacy.
As VP it is their duty to assure the 'Decider' is ALWAYS FULLY INFORMED! "Basically" is NOT an Option- to the POTUS and certainly not ANY of the Underlings, esp The VP.
Further it appears VP Cheney had other military operations, which have yet to be proven approved by Bush. Further allegations of abuse of power and undermining our system of Checks and Balance are coming from one of the Other Equal Branches of Gov't. So Cheney not only usurped the Commander in Chief - but both Houses. And considering Cheney is a man who knows to CYA - do you think he relied solely on the breifs of two low rankers like Yoo and Beybee? Try again....Who revealed his Twisted logic differentiating Torture from Punishment on national TV? Sounded like Scalia provided the basic principles Yoo and Beybee spring boarded off.A Hunting Trip or Two Anthony and Dick?
Nor should we forget that Dick was the First VP to have unfettered powers, yet no accountablity in both the WH and Senate. Enjoying the privieldges of both, but none of the restrictions. Dick created a new Branch of Gov't- Dicks.
And lets be honest- when a public official unabshedly responds "So" to the will (demands) of the people in a democracy- he no longer accepts the concept of a democracy.
My response to the Birthers would be the exact same as Rep BONERS about the Stimulus Bill- I'd slam the volumes of evidence against Cheney on the floor and demand the right of the People to Know exactly What's in it!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

First, how do you know Obama was lying about anything, much less his citizenship? If he is lying, what is the goal?

When it became evident during the presidential campaign that Obama was in the lead, don't you think the McCain campaign went through Barack Obama's records "with a fine-toothed comb," looking for anything that could disqualify Obama? Had McCain actually discovered that Obama did not meet the requirements, he (Sen. McCain) would have been required by law to reveal this information. He did not.

Candidates and office holders aren't required to release copies of their birth certificates to the general public. However, every candidate IS required by law to provide proof of citizenship, age, etc. -- a legal birth certificate -- to the government (not the public, but the government) before they can run for office, and this information is carefully verified, as US law requires. This is how we know that, for example, John McCain, Obama's opponent in the last election, actually wasn't born in the US. He was born in the Panama Canal zone, outside of the US. Barack Obama was born in Hawaii, two years AFTER Hawaii became a state.

Now think for a minute. Once it became evident (during the campaign) that Obama was taking the lead over McCain, do you think that the Republican Party would have failed to fully investigate Obama's qualifications and life history? If Obama didn't fully meet the citizenship requirements of office, wouldn't the McCain camp take immediate action to disqualify Obama? Senators (like McCain) do have full access to records such as birth certificates. Sen. McCain knew, and publicly confirmed, that Barack Obama is, in fact, a US born American citizen.

So, what is your evidence for your claims against Obama?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The truth is President Obama is a natural born citizen...unless you believe that it has been a consipiracy his whole life!....Dont think so!

The real issue here is that many people cannot deal with the fact that a Black President was voted into office. It just seems to rock their worlds.

Obviously, based on some of your comments here, having a Black President is a sore spot. It has everything to do with racism!!! If people REALLY thought that our President wasn't a US born citizen and that were the issue, discussions would have been minimized when the news presented President Obama's birth certificate.

Where were you conspiracy theorists when we needed Bush out of office????????? He was NEVER harassed nearly as much as President Obama.

Honestly, even if by some miraculous event, your crazy theory was proven to be true, and President Obama wasn't a "natural-born" citizen.....WHO CARES!!!!!! News flash buddy, the majority of American citizens WANTED Obama for President. Nothing that is said or done will ever change that fact. And if one African American can be voted into office, guess what, many more can be voted in!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

wow, really?

gee, I'm glad someone pointed out that there was racism involved.

who could have never noticed, otherwise?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Remember it was Iowa--allmost 100% white, that gave Obama his first big victory on the way to the presidency.

I live in Nebraska, and the 2nd Congressional district--where most of the people live--gave Obama it's Electoral vote.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

that makes me a British citizen and not an American? Hogwash. Maternity is the most provable part of being born. Paternity may sometimes be questioned, but not who's your mama.

I don't get it. Plenty of Americans have been born somewhere other than the USA. John McCain was born in Panama--I didn't hear anyone saying that he was Panamanian during the election. And Panama is not the USA.

I did receive the most racist, lying bunch of emails I've ever had during a presidential election, and they were all about Barack Obama. He was a Muslim, he wasn't an American citizen, he was going to force us all to be Muslims, etc.

Get over it you racist Republicans/Hillary worshipers. Give the guy a chance. He couldn't do us more dirty than Bush-Cheney have done over the past 8 years. He's inherited the biggest mess on Earth. Help clean it up, not contribute to it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Today it's the birth certificate. When that dies down they Repubs will have another thing to torment us with. Going back to the campaign and the election, the world was dancing in the streets, literally. Bush, a dismal failure, was gone. The new guy was smart, and gave most of us a new look at the country that Bush destroyed. The Republicans were humiliated. They didn't just lose. They lost many of their own people to Obama. McCain couldn't make the cut and Sarah Palin was a disgrace. We've since had several reality checks and the euphoria has worn off. But the Republicans can't forgive the rest of us for having walked all over them. Looking for their own mistakes is not their style. So they behave like spoiled brats and continue to disrupt anything they can. I can't wait until someone gets a picture of Obmama having a cigarette. They will always find something to feed the 24/7 news. Other than real news. Like we have two wars going on and 31 soldiers died in July. Incidentally, many of themwere not native born Americans. I don't like their tactics because they detract from important things. But that's what they do. I give them a week to find the next thing which I suspect will derive from the Obama, Gates, Crowley ceremonial, 'bury the hatchet beer'. That's their style. ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

im curious why some seemingly great journalists trot out non evidence to make the argument....like the certificate of live birth...strange!

use wierd arguments and belittle the messanger instead of doing some real factfinding.....strange

citizen or not Obama is still a better choice than McInsane/Palin

can you imagine what would happen if this birth stuff were true???



Its about the constitution stupid!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

No, it's not racism; it's consistency of propaganda. It's precisely for the reason one source the author quoted said it was: to persuade people that Obama was deliberately attempting to weaken the country (by not aggresively attacking Iran and anyone else that looks cross-eyed at Israel). This is a projection of treason on an American citizen from people who are greedy for profiteering dollars and/or loyal to a foreign power. It doesn't matter if it is true; it matters that it is consistent with the rest of the propaganda: nobody can be trusted with US foreign policy except those that spend and invade the most. This is straight out of Mein Kampf.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama is half white and his mom was officially and legally about as american as you can get... this turns the race argument into a moot point...

not all states have the long version of birth certificates... many local and county vital statistics records have been damaged or destroyed along the line and the best you can get is an official record of birth from the state...

my own official long form was destroyed in a fire in 1967, best I have is an official record... stuff happens...

every time the critters on the hill get crap like this going, am always wondering what the smoke screen is all about... what are they trying like crazy for us not to know or see???

could it be that they are up for recess where they will be expected to go back to their home state and be subjected to the wrath of voters on a boatload of issues we are not happy about that they have done???

smell a dead rat in this pile of bull...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I noticed that you aren't responding to threads that bring up the birth announcement that was in the Hawaiian paper. Why not?

And since you birthers claim to be all about protecting the Constitution, could you be so kind as to let me know what you were doing when the shrub stole 2 elections and then proceeded to use the Constitution as toilet paper?

Obama's mom was an American citizen, so he is too. Get over it, racists.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Take Obama and 4-6 other people born the same year in Hawaii. Now let's take a look at the legal birth records of all these people in the sample. The people chosen should be picked by birthers and non-birthers.

Form & substance, are the documents the same?

There is no reason to rely on anything but one's own two eyes.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

editor of the American Spectator appeared on "Hardball" with Chris Matthews and rejected the "birther" phenom with a psychology argument:

Psychologically people are lazy and:

1) need an enemy and
2) are bored.

1) hence, they hang on to unproveable conspiracy theories (FDR bombed Pearl Harbor; LBJ shot JFK; yes, Cheney brought down the Twin Towers, and Obama is a Nazi).

2) Someone calls the White House at 4 in the morning asking what they're doing about UFOs

Here Segura also points to a deep psychological enemy: anyone that looks different--the lazy observers pick out the most latent appearance--his skin is a different color, Obama is a black enemy.

Repeating Segura: "Unlike all conspiracy theories, it thrives on a deep-rooted, racist belief: that a black man with a foreign name could never have won the presidency in the United States through anything other than trickery, deception, or fraud."

But the argument itself is a little lazy.
Yes, we acquired our prejudices upon our mother's knee.
But what to do about it?

Turn your view from going out to the color of another's face, in towards your own center.

There you will find a face that has no color, no-face, no size--just an empty space, boundless.
Everyone's headless empty space joins with all other empty spaces to join with a boundless life unconditionally loving all.

see: www.headless.org

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am truly confused about this Kenyan birth issue. Who cares. Nobody is denying that Obama is the child of his mother, who is/was an American citizen.

Even if he were born in Kenya, so long as his mother is American, he is American. End of story. Locale of birth is then irrelevant. It only becomes relevant if BOTH his parents are foreign nationals.

By the way, McCain was born in Panama to an American citizen, and nobody is claiming he's not American.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Whilst Obama is almost certainly a legitimate citizen of The US based on his Mother's status as an American, Hawaii probably isn't a legitimate US state.

Hawaii is in a similar position as Territory forcibly conquered by the British that became part of the British Empire, not States of Britain.

Hawaii is not legally a state! Most folks have heard that Hawaii is a state, one of the United States of America. Most people, including those who live in Hawaii, accept that statement as a fact. But the reality is that in a world in which nations are as bound by the rule of laws as are the citizens of nations (if not more so), the truth is quite different! The truth is that each and every step along Hawaii's path from sovereign and independent nation, to annexed territory, to state, was done in violation of laws and treaties then in effect, without regard to the wishes of the Hawaiian people. Many people, including President Grover Cleveland, opposed the annexation of Hawaii.But in the end, simple greed and military interest overrode any concerns or moral right and legality. Hawaii's legitimate government was toppled using threat of American military force. Hawaii was stolen from her people for the benefit of wealthy American plantation owners and military interests, and the justifications for the crime were invented after-the-fact. Hawaii's government was overthrown on Jan. 17, 1893, by a relatively small group of men, most of them American by birth or heritage, who seized control of the Islands with the backing of American troops sent ashore from a warship in Honolulu Harbor. To this "superior force of the United States of America," Queen Lili`uokalani yielded her throne, under protest, in order to avoid bloodshed, trusting that the United States government would right the wrong that had been done to her and the Hawaiian people. Who were this group of American men and why did they overthrow the government? Sugar! Sugar was by far the principal support of the islands, and profits and prosperity hinged on favorable treaties with the United States, Hawaiian sugar's chief market, creating powerful economic ties. The plantation owners were, for the most part, the descendents of the original missionary families who had brought religion to the islands in the wake of the whaling ships. As ownership of private property came to the islands, the missionary families wound up owning a great deal of it! Hawaii has little in the way of mineral wealth, so the land was useful only for agriculture. But the United States had, in 1826, recognized Hawaii as a sovereign nation in its own right, and imposed the usual import tariffs on sugar coming from the islands. This cut into the profits of the sugar plantations. Indeed, being American citizens themselves, the plantation owners were rankled by the fact that the US government actually made more profit from their sugar then the plantation owners themselves did! To evade the tariff, it became necessary to the plantation owners that Hawaii cease being a separate and sovereign nation. In 1887, during the reign of Lili`uokalani' s brother, King Kalakaua, a group of planters and businessmen, seeking to control the kingdom politically as well as economically, formed a secret organization, the Hawaiian League. Membership (probably never over 400, compared to the 40,000 Native Hawaiians in the kingdom) was predominantly American, led by Lorrin A. Thurston, a lawyer and missionary grandson. Their goal, for now, was to "reform" the monarchy. But what was "reform" to the Americans was treason to the people of Hawaii, who loved and respected their monarchs. It is important to recall that, unlike the hereditary rulers of Europe, Hawaii's last two Kings were actually elected to that office by democratic vote.....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

You sir, have neither the pot to piss in or the accuracy to get it there.

How are we to take you and your tired and outright bogus theories at all seriously if you cannot even grasp the nuances of syntax, grammar, spelling and due-diligence?

Really, the yelling, the typos, the lack of fact checking? You sound like a crazy old coot, shouting at imaginary enemies from a not so tall rooftop. I believe you are not a well person, and I strongly recommend therapy. This would would be a good next step for you.

How's that for being a caring individual?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I guess these "birthers" aren't aware that you don't have to be born on U.S. soil to be a natural-born American citizen as long as one of your parents is. If that weren't the case, no pregnant woman would dare take an overseas trip, in case she unexpectedly went into labor and risk having her child not be a citizen. Doesn't this sort of neutralize the entire debate, as we know that Mr. Obama's mother was a natural-born U.S. citizen? Geeeeez.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I am always shocked when people waste so much time and energy on such stupidity as this. I'm even shocked at myself for being so angry.

This is not America! Who are these people and what do they want?

Are you all just planning to complain and bicker about petty BS and destroy the principles this country has mandated in the Constitution and in the recent election?

If it is your purpose to destoy the Obama presidency, then it must also be your purpose to destroy the United States. You are guilty of treasonous behavior that displays bigotry,lies,immorality and an infantile tantrum stage.

The democrats that rode into office on Obama's coat-tails and the just say no republicans are idiots with ego problems and dollar signs in their eyes. This country is going "belly-up" and you proceed with blinders covering your eyes and ears to argue a moot point in sophomoric style.

The democratic administration of Obama has only been in office seven months. Those of you who are complaining that he has disappointed you,should start pointing your finger of blame and shame at the real culprits. The fear and hate mongerers,the republican minority,bigots,
racists and the religious radicals. How about blaming Wall Street, banks, insurance companies, and the drug and health industry. And what about the war kings in the Pentagon who pick the country's pocket everyday.

And do not forget the media. Where are the true news people who report on important issues? Not the speculators who talk as if they have the corner on the truth market when they know that they are lying to capture the audience of those who feel disenfranchized.

I am ashamed of and embarrassed by the behavior of these so-called pundits and the people who take them at their word. PUNDITS DEAL IN OPINIONS, NOT FACTS.

We need to get over ourselves and start thinking for ourselves about how to solve our problems and not in creating the illusion of problems.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The GOP for years catered to the right wing racist nut cases. They still do for the most part to the point that no black person other than a self hating fool would want to be a part of this party. So now the nuts who have been "pimped" for so many years now wanna run the nut house.I don't think the gOP can control them. What we've seen at those Palin rallies last year, well they are the real thing. You can't make this stuff up

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Check this web site.

Certificate confirmed and includes photos of the raised seal and stamp from State of Hawaii and quotes from the state verifying they have the original on file in their office.

factcheck.org

But some will now accuse the entire state of Hawaii for being in on the conspiracy. Idiots will insist that Obama's mother planned this entire conspiracy when he was born because she knew because of her crystal ball the her some would someday be elected president !

Go figure the total lack of mentality when you hate someone else.

/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What proof do "birthers" have that Obama was born anywhere? If they want to float this notion, they should have the decency to produce some proof that he was born (somewhere else). I don't imagine these half wits would have the collective skill to research that paper trail. Case closed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

see: Silverblatt, Bruns and Jensen,
Deciphering Karl Rove's Playbook: Campaign Tactics and Response Strategies" Webster University

It's a coordinated Republican campaign to regain seats in 2010 and the Presidency in 2012.

1) Take the Offensive
The first out of the starting blocks takes control of the race (no pun intended)
2) Attack your Opponent's strengths
Obama pesonifies diversity.
Response: promote diversity
3) Accuse your Opponent of which he is going to Accuse you of
Repubs are afraid of being accused of being racist, so call Obama a racist
4) Go Negative, Then Cry Foul
5) The "Big Lie"
It's the very magnitude of a "big lie" that makes it believable
6) Appeal to Moral Values
7) Sell the (Ronald Reagan) Persona
8) Sell an Adolescent Worldview
There are "Birthers" and "Truthers"
9) Exploit the Media
10) Create Straw Issues
Manufacture minor (but emotionally loaded) issues to divert the attention and allegiance of voters
11) Employ Surrogates
12) Use Emotional Appeals
13) Rely on Expert Testimonals
14) Rhetorical Devices
15) Use of Language

All of these strategies are being used by demogogues to regain seats.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

What a bunch of morons! Only in a country chock full of retards would this conversation even be happening. I try.. I swear I do.. not to be embarrassed by the rank stupidity of most americans, but jesus hussein christ! seriously?

STOP! OF COURSE he's a citizen. OF COURSE this is racism. Now,let it go!

Here's a thought.. get out of your pj's, walk out the door and expend all this hateful energy on something that IMPROVES the world instead of adding more pollution to it with all this ugliness.

Seriously, STFU. Obama is president. Try to be happy that at least we have a man with dignity and intelligence, something no conservative in the office has had since Eisenhower.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

what difference would it make if Barack Obama was born in this country or not. How could the irreparable harm done by Bush throughout the world ever be rectified in ten lifetimes?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why have none of the hospital staff come forward. If I where present at the birth of a world leader I would be proud of it and tell someone. Why is there confusion over the hospital in which he was born?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Obama's birth announcement in Honolulu paper

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

It appears that the wingnut and tinfoil hate crowd have come out in full force to justify there racism and stupidity. If ever there was proof the education system in the US needs to be fixed, the comments so far show it. Jesus, the comment section is filled to the brim with retards that don't have an idea about what "facts" or "logic" or "truth" means.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Pandering to the political charade is not a pretty thing to watch.

So the entire US economy gets shipped to the safe havens of the colonized lands for cheap labor and the denizens of the Imperium are left to squawk over the import of whether or not their Emperor is really-really from The Homeland or was he too shipped in with the Made in China label.

Who cares.

People are being blown to smithereens by the latest War Monger in Command and you have the audacity to keep the mighty Wurlitzer blaring with such garbage as this article?

Please desist with the latest fluff du jour and get involved with some serious journalism and start asking some relevant questions such as: "Is Obama a war criminal?";

"Do Obama's supporters have obligations now that we've seen how horrific are his policies?";

"Is the liberal media so thoroughly corrupted that it has become the twin of the reactionary media?;

"Will Obama set all records for war spending and bank bailouts?"

You folks really need to take a look in the mirror and ask yourselves what your agenda truly is.

Oh and BTW the illegal US assault in Af/Pak rages on, record unemployment figures soar higher, Iraq casualties pile up, and no peeps from the pseudo-black man with good diction who resides in the House of White.

Wake up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Of all the causes in the world to devote ones' time and energy to, this has to be the most futile and ridiculous.

Do the birthers actually think that they're going to get anywhere close to unseating Barack Obama? REALLY?

I noticed Moroni conveniently left after I linked the birth announcement link several times.

I even dabble in what's considered conspiracy theory - I study them. I think the truthers really have something. There are a ton of unanswered questions, etc.

The birther thing though? Just fecking stupid and desperate and paranoid as it gets.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

No more innocent until PROVEN guilty! All it takes is an accusation. Make an attractive accusation, one that will bolster many of your other fondly-held notions, and convince everyone who "thinks" like you and holds all your fondly-held notions that it's true. This will be the easiest thing you ever do. Right-wing pundits pick it up and "report" on it, usually vaguely. People speak in gatherings and others cheer! Others are cheering! More validation!

Did you think you lived in the US where the accuser must prove their case, have enough evidence to do so, and the accused is innocent until proven guilty? You apparently no longer live in THAT United States. You live in the NEW US, where people hear an idea they really, really like, one that they believe will straighten out a situation they really, really do not like (the new president is of a political party they do not belong to), and those fiercely patriotic citizens now cry, "Well, PROVE your innocence! PROVE the things I believe are not true! Up to you, dude. IF you're innocent, you could PROVE it at any time. The fact that you do not refute what I chose to believe PROVES you are the liar I was already sure you were to begin with."

THIS is the new United States of America, folks!. Set up a straw man, ignore governors (Republican), various Department officials, other officials, archival birth announcements. Why ignore them? They do not match your previously-held assumption, the one that gratifies you so deeply. The one that proves what you want to believe. The one you deeply hope will set the unfortunate situation you find yourself in (your party lost, and some other party controls the presidency, house, and senate) more to your liking, as you are so certain should be the case. And repeat your bogus new rules as if they actually exist, as if any accusation you make must be straightened out by your accused, or that's further proof that they're as bad as you thought beforehand.

Too bad it has nothing to do with American justice. Too bad no one else even attempts to live up to such standards.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

...as long as they are doing their jobs properly, proficiently, intelligently, truthfully, gracefully, empathetically, and sensibly and have "our" (We the People's) interest in mind.

Is Obama doing his job properly, proficiently, intelligently, truthfully, gracefully, empathetically, and sensibly is a whole other issue.

This issue though is a total farse. Independents, like myself, are really sick of these non-issues and sophomoric behavior from the two major parties.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

in the State of Hawaii, yes it IS a State. Don't you think it's time to stop showing the world how stupid you bunch of morons are and find something honest and useful to do with your time? I know I shouldn't be, but I am shocked at the number of idiots in this country. We do have good school systems, but maybe they just didn't have enough schooling. They leave us with the picture of them in our minds of Moonshine-sucking, gun-toting, jackbooted nazi-like sore losers. You lost, get over it.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Any of you Birthers think that for some reason the GOP can't straighten this out pretty quickly, as they could have during the campaign? Why do you suppose they're letting this issue hang there so much? When it would be damned easy, and to their advantage, to find out the truth? It's because they need you mad, because they've lost so many of you. They could, if that birth certificate were as bogus as you claim, bring this into the limelight, let him defend himself, and presumably get him thrown out of office. Why aren't they?

Because they don't give a damn if people believe falsehoods, if it's to their advantage. They don't even care, good Christians, if it violates one of the ten commandments, the one about bearing false witness, the one the Old Testament says you get put to death for breaking. Conspiracies seem to be their only hope. But why any of you are here instead of ringing your Republican officials' phones off the hook for a full investigation (while you're on the phone, ask why they didn't do this on their own) is beyond me.

Oh, and I wouldn't hold my breath for that Republican bill getting passed, the one that will make candidates show their birth certificates. Remember, if it passes, the Republicans who already know that the Obama certificate is a non-issue (and if you dispute that, you do then have to ask yourself what they are waiting for, letting him get away with this) also know that when he runs for reelection, he'll produce his birth certificate along with anyone else. And it'll be real, look just like the others, show the raised seal it has now (if you think it doesn't have that, why do suppose it doesn't? Do you think Obama could have pulled off this greatest of all heists, as you're claiming, but could not have come up with a STAMP?) and not only will you all be deeply disappointed, but maybe more questions will have to be answered, namely, did any member of the GOP investigate this? If not, why not? If so, was the claim of bogusness true? If so, why didn't that GOP member do his/her obvious duty and bring forward the information and begin whatever proceedings their investigation would certainly necessitate?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

proof that BHO is a natural born US citizen.

Hey, if they can get away with all the other UN-Constitutional stuff, like the 'Federal' Reserve, the 'Patriot' Act & a long list of other illegal activities, putting a non citizen in the White House would be easy.

After all they (New World Order) own most media.

Here is a link to a site that has documented the BC story.

http://www.unitedamericanparty.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=1646

If any one can actually prove that Obama is a natural born US citizen I want to know. The thing touted as BO's BC has been shredded on YouTube. All the links are found in the above link.

One thing about this article, no real proof of BO's natural born US citizenship. Lot's of rhetoric, but no real evidence.

SO, WHY DOES THE PREZ NOT SHOW HIS LONG FORM BC?? Why did he sign an executive order giving him the ability to hide his paper work?

Executive Order 13489.

http://edocket.access.gpo.gov/2009/pdf/e9-1712.pdf

Why does BO feel he must be able to invoke executive privilege regarding his files? Nothing to hide comes to mind. Or is there???

http://tinyurl.com/lzk2ss

So much for Obama's 'transparency'. If he lied about having a transparent administration & wants his bills rushed through even without being read, how is that open & honest?

Us BIRTHERS only ask one thing--that BO release proof that he is undeniably a natural born US citizen.

Oh yeah. I take great offence at being called a racist. I have NEVER been that kind of person. I have had people of color as friends & best friends all my life. I was born in south Tuscon, had Mexican friends as I grew up & my first long term lover was a dark skinned Mexican gal. She was the bomb!!

I have many bloods in me, Black & Original American among them. I have no problem with the Prez's skin color.

Using the race card I take it, is designed to scare us off. NOT sorry, this inflammatory bait & switch cover up lie just won't float.

SamFox

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I was more than ready to ignore these birther nuts, when I saw Mike Stark of the Huffington Post attempt to "interview" Republican lawmakers about their thoughts on Obama's citizenship.
Check it out here.

I'm sure it will make you really really mad at these so-called government servants, and ashamed that most of them will continue to be voted back into office.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

that the first two threads of comments seek to avoid the central issue in the article. John Ridley made the point most eloquently last night on Countdown. Here is the deal that we people of color were told: if you go to school, if you speak standard English, if you comport yourself in a manner that isn't too challenging to white men and women, if you obey the laws then you, too, can make it in America and you will be treated fairly and just like any other citizen. That was the bargain. My parents believed it and they taught my sister and I to believe it.

In the last year, though, we've seen the rise of what Ridley (and I will echo him) calls the "prove it syndrome". To Sotomayor, Senate Republicans said "prove it" that you can put aside being a Latina and adjudicate from the bench like a white man. To Obama the birthers say "prove it" that you were born in America. To Skip Gates, it is said "prove it that that you live in this house". If Skip Gates had been shot dead, unarmed, in his own home, there would have been people here at Alternet and in the mainstream media who would demand that it be 'proven' that it happened because he was black. If the cop had been recorded calling Gates the 'n-word' just before the shots rang out, there would *still* be people here at Alternet and elsewhere saying "prove it" that it was about race.

It does not matter how egregious it is, to people of color the refrain is now "prove it".

This is a tough topic and not comfortable and so the conversation at Alternet turns toward the relatively *easy* discussion of this conspiracy theory.

By the way. to those who believe in this birther claptrap, let me ask you this question: do you *really* believe that the US government did a more thorough vetting on me, when I got a top secret security clearance when I enlisted in the Army as a cryptographer than they do on someone who is a serious contender to be President of the United States who gets the keys to the intelligence community kingdom? Honestly? Is that what you think? If so, why? The government tracked down my *kindergarten* teacher and talked to her, they talked to the pastor of the church my *parents* went to in Alabama even though we had left that state 16 years before I enlisted! Now, do you honestly believe that the FBI would do that thorough an investigation for a lowly E-3 (Specialist 4) getting a TS security clearance but wouldn't be that thorough for a US Senator who was running for President? If so, why do you think so?

Cheers
A

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

http://silverstockreport.com/2009/obama-reward.html

The author is a religious nut case, but interesting. Here is tries to play bible toting lawyer. Anyone want to have a go at him?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Why would you paint people who just are not brainwashed as racist?

The very simple facts are he lies a lot for PR. He pretends to be an anti-war populist until it comes time to act. He spends a million dollars fighting legal battles to show his birth certificate, and then posts this document, which actually isn't a birth certificate but a summarized statement which obviously isn't what his birth certificate could say. He pretended to be anti military industrial complex and anti Zionist in Trinity church for 20 years. Come on, he has no credibility.

"African" wasn't a race on US birth certificates until about 1968. I would think people would know this, and if this summarized statement of the document he spent a million dollars sealing and fighting under the radar court battles to protect is true, then you should be glad to make him show it.

That would mean he is the first known, official "African American" in the US, in 61, years before the rest of the country caught on with the African pride movement started in the mid 60s. The very first official African American ever, later went on to become president. Wow, what are the odds?

So I don't know don't care if he was born in Iraq or Butternut Georgia. The point is the document is a lie, and people saying so are rational and point out a valid fact you just don't want to think about. Some are racist and some are not. Many of you guys are trying to paint anyone who is not a brainwashed rationalizer as racist, insulting those actually concerned about real racism. Just say you're afraid he's not legitimately born here and want to cover it up for him, if that's what you want. Don't stretch reason to rationalize or ignore why he spent a million dollars covering up a document he wants sealed and produced an internet summary of instead. It's not his only records he sealed. You're an insult to liberals, progressives and any sort of free thinker if you want to label anyone who points out this obvious lie as racist. Show me one other person, anywhere in the US, anytime before 1965 even, who has "African" as a race on an actual birth certificate. The word they used was Negro back then, and I am so not racist, just knowing a little history, and not willing to rationalize for him or any other murdering crook.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

There would STILL be a question about his citizenship. There was a question about Mccain's citizenship, but it never got off the ground because he lost. The citizenship issue kept Kissinger and Schwarzenegger from ever running for the White House in the first place.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]