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"I Hate Arabs More Than Anybody": Desperate Army Recruits Neo-Nazis
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On a muggy Florida evening in 2008, I meet Iraq War veteran Forrest Fogarty in the Winghouse, a little bar-restaurant on the outskirts of Tampa, his favorite hangout. He told me on the phone I would recognize him by his skinhead. Sure enough, when I spot a white guy at a table by the door with a shaved head, white tank top and bulging muscles, I know it can only be him.
Over a plate of chicken wings, he tells me about his path into the white-power movement. "I was 14 when I decided I wanted to be a Nazi," he says. At his first high school, near Los Angeles, he was bullied by black and Latino kids. That's when he first heard Skrewdriver, a band he calls "the godfather of the white power movement." "I became obsessed," he says. He had an image from one of Skrewdriver's album covers -- a Viking carrying a staff, an icon among white nationalists -- tattooed on his left forearm. Soon after he had a Celtic cross, an Irish symbol appropriated by neo-Nazis, emblazoned on his stomach.
At 15, Fogarty moved with his dad to Tampa, where he started picking fights with groups of black kids at his new high school. "On the first day, this bunch of niggers, they thought I was a racist, so they asked, 'Are you in the KKK?'" he tells me. "I said, 'Yeah,' and it was on." Soon enough, he was expelled.
For the next six years, Fogarty flitted from landscaping job to construction job, neither of which he'd ever wanted to do. "I was just drinking and fighting," he says. He started his own Nazi rock group, Attack, and made friends in the National Alliance, at the time the biggest neo-Nazi group in the country. It has called for a "a long-term eugenics program involving at least the entire populations of Europe and America."
But the military ran in Fogarty's family. His grandfather had served during World War II, Korea and Vietnam, and his dad had been a Marine in Vietnam. At 22, Fogarty resolved to follow in their footsteps. "I wanted to serve my country," he says.
Army regulations prohibit soldiers from participating in racist groups, and recruiters are instructed to keep an eye out for suspicious tattoos. Before signing on the dotted line, enlistees are required to explain any tattoos. At a Tampa recruitment office, though, Fogarty sailed right through the signup process. "They just told me to write an explanation of each tattoo, and I made up some stuff, and that was that," he says. Soon he was posted to Fort Stewart in Georgia, where he became part of the 3rd Infantry Division.
Fogarty's ex-girlfriend, intent on destroying his new military career, sent a dossier of photographs to Fort Stewart. The photos showed Fogarty attending white supremacist rallies and performing with his band, Attack. "They hauled me before some sort of committee and showed me the pictures," Fogarty says. "I just denied them and said my girlfriend was a spiteful bitch." He adds: "They knew what I was about. But they let it go because I'm a great soldier."
In 2003, Fogarty was sent to Iraq. For two years he served in the military police, escorting officers, including generals, around the hostile country. He says he was granted top-secret clearance and access to battle plans. Fogarty speaks with regret that he "never had any kill counts." But he says his time in Iraq increased his racist resolve.
"I hate Arabs more than anybody, for the simple fact I've served over there and seen how they live," he tells me. "They're just a backward people. Them and the Jews are just disgusting people as far as I'm concerned. Their customs, everything to do with the Middle East, is just repugnant to me."
Because of his tattoos and his racist comments, most of his buddies and his commanding officers were aware of his Nazism. "They all knew in my unit," he says. "They would always kid around and say, 'Hey, you're that skinhead!'" But no one sounded an alarm to higher-ups. "I would volunteer for all the hardest missions, and they were like, 'Let Fogarty go.' They didn't want to get rid of me."
Fogarty left the Army in 2005 with an honorable discharge. He says he was asked to reenlist. He declined. He was sick of the system.
Since the launch of the wars in Afghanistan and Iraq, the U.S. military has struggled to recruit and reenlist troops. As the conflicts have dragged on, the military has loosened regulations, issuing "moral waivers" in many cases, allowing even those with criminal records to join up. Veterans suffering post-traumatic stress disorder have been ordered back to the Middle East for second and third tours of duty.
The lax regulations have also opened the military's doors to neo-Nazis, white supremacists and gang members -- with drastic consequences. Some neo-Nazis have been charged with crimes inside the military, and others have been linked to recruitment efforts for the white right. A recent Department of Homeland Security report, "Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment," stated: "The willingness of a small percentage of military personnel to join extremist groups during the 1990s because they were disgruntled, disillusioned, or suffering from the psychological effects of war is being replicated today." Many white supremacists join the Army to secure training for, as they see it, a future domestic race war. Others claim to be shooting Iraqis not to pursue the military's strategic goals but because killing "hajjis" is their duty as white militants.
Soldiers' associations with extremist groups, and their racist actions, contravene a host of military statutes instituted in the past three decades. But during the "war on terror," U.S. armed forces have turned a blind eye on their own regulations. A 2005 Department of Defense report states, "Effectively, the military has a 'don't ask, don't tell' policy pertaining to extremism. If individuals can perform satisfactorily, without making their extremist opinions overt they are likely to be able to complete their contracts."
Carter F. Smith is a former military investigator who worked with the U.S. Army Criminal Investigation Command from 2004 to 2006, when he helped to root out gang violence in troops. "When you need more soldiers, you lower the standards, whether you say so or not," he says. "The increase in gangs and extremists is an indicator of this." Military investigators may be concerned about white supremacists, he says. "But they have a war to fight, and they don't have incentive to slow down."
Tom Metzger is the former grand wizard of the Ku Klux Klan and current leader of the White Aryan Resistance. He tells me the military has never been more tolerant of racial extremists. "Now they are letting everybody in," he says.
The presence of white supremacists in the military first triggered concern in 1976. At Camp Pendleton in California, a group of black Marines attacked white Marines they mistakenly believed to be in the KKK. The resulting investigation uncovered a KKK chapter at the base and led to the jailing or transfer of 16 Klansmen. Reports of Klan activity among soldiers and Marines surfaced again in the 1980s, spurring President Reagan's Defense Secretary, Caspar Weinberger, to condemn military participation in white supremacist organizations.
Then, in 1995, a black couple was murdered by two neo-Nazi paratroopers around Fort Bragg in North Carolina. The murder investigation turned up evidence that 22 soldiers at Fort Bragg were known to be extremists. That year, language was added to a Department of Defense directive, explicitly prohibiting participation in "organizations that espouse supremacist causes" or "advocate the use of force or violence."
Today a complete ban on membership in racist organizations appears to have been lifted -- though the proliferation of white supremacists in the military is difficult to gauge. The military does not track them as a discrete category, coupling them with gang members. But one indication of the scope comes from the FBI.
Following an investigation of white supremacist groups, a 2008 FBI report declared: "Military experience -- ranging from failure at basic training to success in special operations forces -- is found throughout the white supremacist extremist movement." In white supremacist incidents from 2001 to 2008, the FBI identified 203 veterans. Most of them were associated with the National Alliance and the National Socialist Movement, which promote anti-Semitism and the overthrow of the U.S. government, and assorted skinhead groups.
Because the FBI focused only on reported cases, its numbers don't include the many extremist soldiers who have managed to stay off the radar. But its report does pinpoint why the white supremacist movements seek to recruit veterans -- they "may exploit their accesses to restricted areas and intelligence or apply specialized training in weapons, tactics, and organizational skills to benefit the extremist movement."
In fact, since the movement's inception, its leaders have encouraged members to enlist in the U.S. military as a way to receive state-of-the-art combat training, courtesy of the U.S. taxpayer, in preparation for a domestic race war. The concept of a race war is central to extremist groups, whose adherents imagine an eruption of violence that pits races against each other and the government.
That goal comes up often in the chatter on white supremacist Web sites. On the neo-Nazi Web site Blood and Honour, a user called 88Soldier88, wrote in 2008 that he is an active duty soldier working in a detainee holding area in Iraq. He complained about "how 'nice' we have to treat these fucking people better than our own troops." Then he added, "Hopefully the training will prepare me for what I hope is to come." Another poster, AMERICANARYAN.88Soldier88, wrote, "I have the training I need and will pass it on to others when I get out."
On NewSaxon.org, a social networking group for neo-Nazis, a group called White Military Men hosts numerous contributors. It was begun by "FightingforWhites," who identified himself at one point as Lance Cpl. Burton of the 2nd Battalion Fox Company, but then removed the information. The group calls for "All men with military experience, retired or active/reserve" to "join this group to see how many men have experience to build an army. We want to win a war, we need soldiers." FightingforWhites -- whose tagline is "White Supremacy will prevail! US Military leading the way!" -- goes on to write, "I am with an infantry battalion in the Marine Corps, I have had the pleasure of killing four enemies that tried to kill me. I have the best training to kill people." On his wall, a friend wrote: "THANKS BROTHER!!!! kill a couple towel heads for me ok!"
Such attitudes come straight from the movement's leaders. "We do encourage them to sign up for the military," says Charles Wilson, spokesman for the National Socialist Movement. "We can use the training to secure the resistance to our government." Billy Roper, of White Revolution, says skinheads join the military for the usual reasons, such as access to higher education, but also "to secure the future for white children." "America began in bloody revolution," he reminds me, "and it might end that way."
When it comes to screening out racists at recruitment centers, military regulations appear to have collapsed. "We don't exclude people from the army based on their thoughts," says S. Douglas Smith, an Army public affairs officer. "We exclude based on behavior." He says an "offensive" or "extremist" tattoo "might be a reason for them not to be in the military." Or it might not. "We try to educate recruiters on extremist tattoos," he says, but "the tattoo is a relatively subjective decision" and shouldn't in itself bar enlistment.
What about something as obvious as a swastika? "A swastika would trigger questions," Smith says. "But again, if the gentlemen said, 'I like the way the swastika looked,' and had clean criminal record, it's possible we would allow that person in." "There are First Amendment rights," he adds.
In the spring, I telephoned at random five Army recruitment centers across the country. I said I was interested in joining up and mentioned that I had a pair of "SS bolts" tattooed on my arm. A 2000 military brochure stated that SS bolts were a tattoo image that should raise suspicions. But none of the recruiters reacted negatively, and when pressed directly about the tattoo, not one said it would be an outright problem. A recruiter in Houston was typical; he said he'd never heard of SS bolts and just encouraged me to come on in.
It's in the interest of recruiters to interpret recruiting standards loosely. If they fail to meet targets, based on the number of soldiers they enlist, they may have to attend a punitive counseling session, and it could hurt any chance for promotion. When, in 2005, the Army relaxed regulations on non-extremist tattoos, such as body art covering the hands, neck and face, this cut recruiters even more slack.
Even the education of recruiters about how to identify extremists seems to have fallen by the wayside. The 2005 Department of Defense report concluded that recruiting personnel "were not aware of having received systematic training on recognizing and responding to possible terrorists" -- a designation that includes white supremacists -- "who try to enlist." Participation on white supremacist Web sites would be an easy way to screen out extremist recruits, but the report found that the military had not clarified which Web forums were gathering places for extremists.
Once white supremacists are in the military, it is easy to stay there. An Army Command Policy manual devotes more than 100 pages to rooting them out. But no officer appears to be reading it.
Hunter Glass was a paratrooper in the 1980s and became a gang cop in 1999 in Fayetteville, North Carolina, near Fort Bragg. "In the early 1990s, the military was hard on them. They could pick and choose," he recalls. "They were looking for swastikas. They were looking for anything." But the regulations on racist extremists got jettisoned with the war on terror.
Glass says white supremacists now enjoy an open culture of impunity in the armed forces. "We're seeing guys with tattoos all the time," he says. "As far as hunting them down, I don't see it. I'm seeing the opposite, where if a white supremacist has committed a crime, the military stance will be, 'He didn't commit a race-related crime.'"
In fact, a 2006 report by the Army's Criminal Investigation Command shows that military brass consistently ignored evidence of extremism. One case, at Fort Hood, reveals that a soldier was making Internet postings on the white supremacist site Stormfront.org. But the investigator was unable to locate the soldier in question. In a brief summary of the case, an investigator writes that due to "poor documentation," "attempts to locate with minimal information met with negative results." "I'm not doing my job here," the investigator notes. "Needs to get fixed."
In another case, investigators found that a Fort Hood soldier belonged to the neo-Nazi group Hammerskins and was "closely associated with" the Celtic Knights of Austin, Texas, another extremist organization, a situation bad enough to merit a joint investigation by the FBI and the Army's Criminal Investigation Command. The Army summary states that there was "probable cause" to believe the soldier had participated in at least one white extremist meeting and had "provided a military technical manual to the leader of a white extremist group in order to assist in the planning and execution of future attacks on various targets."
Our of four preliminary probes into white supremacists, the Criminal Investigation Command carried through on only this one. The probe revealed that "a larger single attack was planned for the San Antonio, TX after a considerable amount of media attention was given to illegal immigrants. The attack was not completed due to the inability of the organization to obtain explosives." Despite these threats, the subject was interviewed only once, in 2006, and the investigation was terminated the following year.
White supremacists may be doing more than avoiding expulsion. They may be using their military status to help build the white right. The FBI found that two Army privates in the 82nd Airborne Division at Fort Bragg had attempted in 2007 to sell stolen property from the military -- including ballistic vests, a combat helmet and pain medications such as morphine -- to an undercover FBI agent they believed was involved with the white supremacist movement. (They were convicted and sentenced to six years.) It found multiple examples of white supremacist recruitment among active military, including a period in 2003 when six active duty soldiers at Fort Riley, members of the Aryan Nation, were recruiting their Army colleagues and even serving as the Aryan Nation's point of contact for the state of Kansas.
One white supremacist soldier, James Douglas Ross, a military intelligence officer stationed at Fort Bragg, was given a bad conduct discharge from the Army when he was caught trying to mail a submachine gun from Iraq to his father's home in Spokane, Wash. Military police found a cache of white supremacist paraphernalia and several weapons hidden behind ceiling tiles in Ross' military quarters. After his discharge, a Spokane County deputy sheriff saw Ross passing out fliers for the neo-Nazi National Alliance.
Rooting out extremists is difficult because racism pervades the military, according to soldiers. They say troops throughout the Middle East use derogatory terms like "hajji" or "sand nigger" to define Arab insurgents and often the Arab population itself.
"Racism was rampant," recalls vet Michael Prysner, who served in Iraq in 2003 and 2004 as part of the 173rd Airborne Brigade. "All of command, everywhere, it was completely ingrained in the consciousness of every soldier. I've heard top generals refer to the Iraq people as 'hajjis.' The anti-Arab racism came from the brass. It came from the top. And everything was justified because they weren't considered people."
Another vet, Michael Totten, who served in Iraq with the 101st Airborne in 2003 and 2004, says, "It wouldn't stand out if you said 'sand niggers,' even if you aren't a neo-Nazi." Totten says his perspective has changed in the intervening years, but "at the time, I used the words 'sand nigger.' I didn't consider 'hajji' to be derogatory."
Geoffrey Millard, an organizer for Iraq Veterans Against the War, served in Iraq for 13 months, beginning in 2004, as part of the 42nd Infantry Division. He recalls Gen. George Casey, who served as the commander in Iraq from 2004 to 2007, addressing a briefing he attended in the summer of 2005 at Forward Operating Base, outside Tikrit. "As he walked past, he was talking about some incident that had just happened, and he was talking about how 'these stupid fucking hajjis couldn't figure shit out.' And I'm just like, Are you kidding me? This is Gen. Casey, the highest-ranking guy in Iraq, referring to the Iraqi people as 'fucking hajjis.'" (A spokesperson for Casey, now the Army Chief of Staff, said the general "did not make this statement.")
"The military is attractive to white supremacists," Millard says, "because the war itself is racist."
The U.S. Senate Committee on the Armed Forces has long been considered one of Congress' most powerful groups. It governs legislation affecting the Pentagon, defense budget, military strategies and operations. Today it is led by the influential Sens. Carl Levin and John McCain. An investigation by the committee into how white supremacists permeate the military in plain violation of U.S. law could result in substantive changes. I contacted the committee but staffers would not agree to be interviewed. Instead, a spokesperson responded that white supremacy in the military has never arisen as a concern. In an e-mail, the spokesperson said, "The Committee doesn't have any information that would indicate this is a particular problem."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: rainingwolf on Jun 17, 2009 2:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Vegetarianisim is more important!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: Spiritgirl
» RE: There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: peterdel
» RE: Right on!
Posted by: lightwing1
» Remember that Fogherty hates both Jews and Arabs. Jews more; Hitler considered Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: yellow
» RE: emember that Fogherty hates both Jews and Arabs. Jews more; Hitler considered Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: emember that Fogherty hates both Jews and Arabs. Jews more; Hitler considered Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: yellow
» Hitler did NOT consider Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: Nodarse on Jun 17, 2009 2:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you believe the repeal of "posse comitatus" (the pesky law that prohibited soldiers from being used as cops) is still a good idea?
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» Massachusetts leg. passed martial law bill
Posted by: plantland
» RE: Massachusetts leg. passed martial law bill
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Never thought it was a good idea...
Posted by: lightwing1
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 17, 2009 2:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But one looks at what is going on in Europe for example, especially Sweden, where muslims are turning that country into an extremist hell and one can see how world opinion of Arabs isn't that good. Germany and Japan had similar problems after WW2!
Arabs need to stand up and denounce the extremist groups instead of being silent and the world opinion would change.
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» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
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» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Quannah
» As ye sow, so shall ye reap
Posted by: u2r1
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» *** progressive-life = 2thepoint ***
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 17, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Emmories
» RE: Obama step-up and do anything? Hahaha, what a joke
Posted by: DCostello2
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Quannah
» [off-topic] life expectancy, Augusto Pinochet and DDT
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: [off-topic] life expectancy, Augusto Pinochet and DDT
Posted by: Quannah
» minor correction and useful links re DDT
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» *** ALERT! progressive-life = 2thepoint! ***
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 17, 2009 2:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The May issue of Harper’s Magazine has an article called “Jesus Killed Mohammed: The Crusade for a Christian Military,” and there are a couple of books coming out on the subject. This all comes from a piece on Democracy Now called “The Crusade for a Christian Military”: Are US Forces Trying to Convert Afghans to Christianity?"
The neo-nazis fit right in to the new military mix. The original Nazis fancied themselves to be true Christians. Suddenly, the idea of a draft doesn't sound so bad.*
*Just kidding. I do not want anyone getting drafted.
My new YouTube video: Rupert Murdoch in Pain
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» RE: Christians sadists and Nazis--O no!
Posted by: scared
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Posted by: colinmeister on Jun 17, 2009 3:44 AM
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» In the immortal words of Hannibal Lecter...
Posted by: njguy73
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Posted by: birdman1943 on Jun 17, 2009 4:15 AM
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» RE: "Taking out the garbage..."
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: birdbrain1943
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» "This is the army, Mr. Jones!"
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: "This is the army, Mr. Jones!"
Posted by: Quannah
» Murder is not part of a soldier's job, idiot
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Murder is not part of a soldier's job, idiot
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Murder is not part of a soldier's job, idiot
Posted by: richholland
» RE: What is a Soldier?
Posted by: Quannah
» What a toughie
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: What a toughie
Posted by: Quannah
» when one has nothing to say but wants to play at "tough", one swears.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: when one has nothing to say but wants to play at "tough", one swears.
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: What is a Soldier?
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: What is a Soldier?
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: PJAW on Jun 17, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that the lies behind the wars are becoming more widely understood, decent young people are refusing to enlist. If the wars were just, Americans would step forward and join the effort without having to be bribed and coerced and there would be no need to fill the ranks with people of questionable motives.
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» RE: This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: Quannah
» Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old?
Posted by: Quannah
» Who do you think you are
Posted by: outsideagitator
» Well You Know Who I Am, Mr/Ms Stereotype
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Can the gal shoot? I don't need to date her to depend on her.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Can the gal shoot? I don't need to date her to depend on her.
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I "hate ordinary Americans"?
Posted by: PJAW
Comments are closed-
Posted by: masthead on Jun 17, 2009 5:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 17, 2009 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. military is a cauldron of racial identity gangs and criminal organizations like any prison
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» RE: Don't know why anybody is surprised
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» What are you talking about?
Posted by: sausage
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Posted by: plantland on Jun 17, 2009 6:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate SPEECH seems to be used in training.
Let's hope a line is drawn at ACTIONS against fellow soldiers.
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» RE: Gays in the military, tattoos in the military-civil liberties
Posted by: Brb007
» RE: Gays in the military, tattoos in the military-civil liberties
Posted by: Quannah
» Tattoos on soldiers aren't protected
Posted by: brunowe
Comments are closed-
Posted by: R.W. on Jun 17, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=1
Photos show boys & girls, youngest just 14(!) who look like terrorists themselves! I thought they were kids "drafted" by a terrorist group!
Look too at the scary comments ADULTS make:“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County."
Fol is 'cut-off' version since site limits comments to 4,000chars.
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER-May 13, 2009
IMPERIAL, CA — 10 minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.
In a training exercise run by Border Patrol agents, Explorer scouts from Visalia, Calif., prepare to storm a “hijacked” bus.
Imperial County relies on the local criminal justice system.
The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.
“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.
It is all quite a step up from the square knot.
The Explorers program, a co-ed affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence — an intense ratcheting up of one of the group’s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters.
“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, a sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County, whose life clock, he says, is set around the Explorers events he helps run. “It fits right in with the honor and bravery of the Boy Scouts.”
The training, which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting, can involve chasing down illegal border crossers as well as more dangerous situations that include facing down terrorists and taking out “active shooters,” like those who bring gunfire and death to college campuses. In a simulation here of a raid on a marijuana field, several Explorers were instructed on how to quiet an obstreperous lookout.
“Put him on his face and put a knee in his back,” a Border Patrol agent explained. “I guarantee that he’ll shut up.”
One participant, Felix Arce, 16, said he liked “the discipline of the program,” which was something he said his life was lacking. “I want to be a lawyer, and this teaches you about how crimes are committed,” he said.
Cathy Noriega, also 16, said she was attracted by the guns. The group uses compressed-air guns — known as airsoft guns, which fire tiny plastic pellets — in the training exercises, and sometimes they shoot real guns on a closed range.
“I like shooting them,” Cathy said. “I like the sound they make. It gets me excited.”
If there are critics of the content or purpose of the law enforcement training, they have not made themselves known to the Explorers’ national organization in Irving, Tex., or to the volunteers here on the ground, national officials and local leaders said. That said, the Explorers have faced problems over the years. There have been numerous cases over the last three decades in which police officers supervising Explorers have been charged, in civil and criminal cases, with sexually abusing them.
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» RE: We have met the enemy & it is US!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» I'm a former Cub, Boy & Explorer Scout & Was Saddened!
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: sirios on Jun 17, 2009 7:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: For all those who aren't, pray for whitness
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at what happened at Abu Ghraib. Look at what happens still at Guantanamo and at US "black sites". The US military -- and the US government and the CIA too -- aren't exactly populated with people who love Arabs!
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Posted by: 6woolseyjoyce2 on Jun 17, 2009 7:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Jesus's name Blackwater sets legal precedents to act outside the law while being paid handsome taxpayer money to fight corporate wars of, and for, profit.
We cheer rather than hang the corrupt perpetrators. While every country on earth beyond our borders the people say emphatically, "NO!" over and over to stop this obscene beast from destroying them. If only these 'brave Americans' were so united...
I don't want to wake up. I don't have that many years left in me...yet I cannot sleep.
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» RE: DogLeg
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Ross Wolf on Jun 17, 2009 7:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider last week’s news that mentioned when Mexican drug cartel members in Acapulco got into a gunfight with police, cartel members threw fifty hand grenades. Imagine extremist in America fighting U.S police in that manner or using grenades in a racial war.
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» RE: What Happened To All Those Lost Military Weapons?
Posted by: ava1984
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Posted by: frankly1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Always has been!
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Always has been!
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: clvngodess on Jun 17, 2009 8:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It makes complete sense to me to fill a killing and destruction system, like the Military, with the most despicable human beings one can find --gangs, thugs, neo-nazis, skinheads, sociopaths, etc.
The rest of the wrapper regarding honor, country, and all that shit is just that, shit.
War is about killing, and domination by any means imaginable. So why would they want people with ethics or morals or critical thinking skills in theatre? If you want to destroy something, someone, societies, you don't do it with Clark Kent or Brad Pitt. You hire the right creature for the job.
The other alternative, dare I say it, would be a draft.
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» RE: A draft...
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jun 17, 2009 8:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
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Posted by: richholland on Jun 17, 2009 9:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dooglefish on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now what do we make of a military which trains skinheads who get their kicks from killing non-whites? It is time to revisit the blanket incrimination applied to all Islamic and pro-Arab groups. It is clearly time to cease judiciary and law enforcement fishing expeditions whose political motives serve AIPAC and not US.
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Posted by: Jaffe on Jun 17, 2009 9:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Vietnam-era vet (though I remained stateside), and I remember clearly the blatant racism and bigotry both in Fort Dix, New Jersey, and Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, where I trained. Most of it was directed against African-American soldiers, some against Jews or Latinos--there were very few identifiable Muslim-American soldiers then--except for a relatively small number of Black soldiers who were already under duress.
Of course, this was the time of the draft, and though there were fewer tattoos, there were probably proportionately as many "white supremacists" in the service.
It is true that now, with the burgeoning corporate-sponsored soldiers of fortune industry, there is more reason for white racists to learn how to kill the "right" way. And, yes, the military wants all the bodies it can get.
Ah, I don't expect our new President, worked up as he is about Afghanistan and Pakistan, to move on white supremacists in the military, do you?
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Posted by: bingahaba on Jun 17, 2009 9:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: D. Shenary on Jun 17, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: None of This Should Come as a Surprise
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: None of This Should Come as a Surprise
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: ava1984 on Jun 17, 2009 9:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they will pester a mildly retarded young man; why not go for the racists among us. They are in the millions! Surely, after all of these years, and all of the rotten things many of our troops have done, we do not labor in the delusion that our military is something in which to be proud.
What we have not been told is the spike in suicides in the ranks, many due to shame for what they were ordered to do in our name, and,those who are doing time for refusal of the illegal orders they could not obey in good conscience.
These are the faceless troops in which I am proud; the men in my family have served in every war at least as far back as the American Civil War. Because, they survived we are here; and, must not stand by and flag wave; while these horrors continue in our name!
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» RE: Really?! ......
Posted by: Zeugitai
» Most definitely we "must not stand by
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Really?! ......
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: willymack on Jun 17, 2009 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider if you will that if the bushies HADN'T stolen the 2000 & 2004 "elections", there probably wouldn't even be two illegal and brutal occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, and (I think) there's a dandy chance 911 wouldn't have happened either. The connection between 911 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan is just too obvious to be a "coincidence". One seems to follow the other.
The fact of skinheads and neo-nazis in the military is nothing more or less than a reflection of the mind-set of the sickos in the bush regime, who lack the guts to come out and declare themselves or face an armed enemy in a field of combat.
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» RE: All bushed up
Posted by: R.W.
» RE: All bushed up
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: aahpat on Jun 17, 2009 10:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 1990's a news story made the rounds about a group of police and federal agents of all agencies in Washington, D.C. that threw a weekend party in Virginia. They called themselves the "Old Boy Network". The held a cross lighting on Saturday night of the weekend.
Just last year a Philadelphia, PA Narcotics Task Force Police officer was discharged after it was found that he had a KKK poster in his locker that said "Blue by day white by night".
Trained soldiers get a preference in police department hiring.
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» RE: Authoritarians and fascists
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
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Posted by: aahpat on Jun 17, 2009 10:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pomes on Jun 17, 2009 10:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Army is taking in gang bangers and thugs of all stripes as well. Just about anybody who can shoot a gun and kill people without losing too much sleep has a career waiting for them.
Some of these people are joining up to learn military skills and tactics.
LiveLeak: Gangs Make Military Unsafe
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» RE: Gang bangers too
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jun 17, 2009 11:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is reassuring. Maybe our AlterNet comments sometimes help too.
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Posted by: Quannah on Jun 17, 2009 11:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does the U.S. Military and the Pentagon not understand that they are training those who would bring about the overthrow of our own government? Do they not realize that these white supremacist groups publicly announce that they are preparing for a RACE WAR in this country, as well as a violent revolution against the government, using the training given to them FREE OF CHARGE from the military?
The FBI identified 203 veterans involved in racist hate crimes. They are just the ones who were CAUGHT.
Strange, that I was dismissed as "ridiculous" when I started discussing this topic well over a year ago. The American people had better wake up.
I'm afraid this has gone past the tipping point, actually. Maybe it's time to start country-shopping again...
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Posted by: debmcd on Jun 17, 2009 11:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Zeugitai on Jun 17, 2009 12:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of those articles that exposes the actual reality of the Forcibly-United States of Amerigo from which secession is verboten. The country runs on hate, coercion, duplicity, lies, subjugation, exploitation, propaganda, and lust--the lust for money, sex, power, and blood. Remember that when you are standing in a church singing songs of expiation, or spouting hypocritical cant. Remember it when you sing your songs of peace on earth. Remember the murderous boys you grew up with, now tattooed with skulls, shooting people down all over the world with American weapons, insane music blaring in ipod headphones to squelch any rational thought. Remember it when you buy for your kids computer games that train them to kill with cold impunity, or take them to learn warfare at a paintball course. Remember it when you fly your flag of bloody colonization and empire. Remember it when you watch television programs and movies that glorify violence and killing.
These hate-driven killers are just another batch of American boys, born and raised the American way. They were bred to it by this "system." Their fathers killed foreigners in their wars, or shot people on the streets as cops, and now it is the turn of these animals. What else did you expect? That these kids would grow up to be pacifists? How is that possible in America? A young pacifist would likely be beaten to death in our American schools and on our streets.
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Posted by: Aredee on Jun 17, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It turns out some faculty members were apparently part of the whole thing, to the point where non-fundamentalist students were dropping out due to harassment or just plain disgust.
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Posted by: hilaryuk on Jun 17, 2009 2:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And presumably, when an inevitable retaliatory/terrorist attack is launched on American soil, that government and the American people would throw their hands in the air and wail "why do they hate us?". Believe it or not, it will not be because they hate your freedoms, political philosophy or religion. It will be because they hate being occupied, or hate being killed, or hate being dispossessed and bullied. Lord knows, they may even blame the whole of the US for the actions of American racists in uniform - after all, we ourselves are only too happy to blame all Muslims for the actions of a minority (see many of the comments above).
Of course, by then the US will be running a parallel risk of being assailed by internal right-wing terrorists who happen to have been well trained courtesy of the taxpayer. Presumably that training will ensure that they are somewhat more efficient and ambitious than hitherto.
Sometimes the Bible can be right: we reap what we sow. Of course, tackling the problem could be construed as an insult to the entire military, so perhaps we should all turn over and go back to sleep.
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» RE: amification upon bloody ramification
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 17, 2009 2:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I thought it was "liberating and empowering"...
Posted by: njguy73
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Posted by: hilly on Jun 17, 2009 6:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We were never allow to say "I hate...." If it was a person, a type of food, or anything else, we were to say,"I dislike".
Both my sister and I thought that this was a STUPID rule, but Mom ruled.
In my old age, I see where she was going with that. I did the same thing with my children, and they do the same with theirs.
You see, no matter how angry you are, if you cannot say "hate", it somehow makes you stop and evaluate things. Try it.
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Jun 17, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
7/11/06, when i was kidnapped/beaten and injected multiple times by goons in a black van with cop cherries flashing... at first we thought it was probably paid for by our adversaries over the stolen business. but in 2008, we learned that just 3 days before it happened to me, one of the fellows we'd just worked with doing antiwar websites and posters, was identically attacked, same exact MO: heading towards his car, jumped by guys, dragged into a black van, beat him, injected him and dropped him unconscious at the same hospital i was.
he was leaving the UN, having been an organizer for the huge antiwar demonstration there for which i'd designed and produced high-visibility posters, seen worldwide by millions. this let us know that it wasn't the business-thieves who had me hit. it was persons, official or otherwise, with political motives who hired these pros. as we realized at the time, the intention wasn't to kill but just damn near do so. those guys could've killed me just slamming me to the ground harder, if they'd meant to. however, whether the beating or the chemicals; health hasn't been the same since and likely never will be.
amy called bill kunkel, the fellow who introduced us in 1983. kunkel, himself anything but a cop, is from a long line of NYPD. his tank-like sister is a lieutenant here, used to be in charge of the ghouliani group of ultra-thug cops under whom hundreds (some say as many as 800 citywide), of virtually all non-white new yorkers died 'suspiciously, including the world-famous shootings of diallo. needless to say, no jail time for those nazis, in fact one of them, ironically related to amy and from a liberal hippie jewish family in brooklyn (go figure...), joined the service to go to iraq for more kiling, having gotten a taste for murder on the force. all of the diallo killers were back on the NYPD but him...
his sister told kunkel that we were probably hit by off-duty cops. she told him that such 'moonlighting' was rampant. she added that there were as many as 400 aryan nation types on the NYPD, usually preferring to work in non-white neighborhoods, of course. dober-men off the leash among the civilians. the vast majority of police and military are rightwing, always manning the front lines for fascism.
mentioning this to coogan, he told me he'd recently been at a bar where a guy introduced him to a table of what turned out to be skinhead NYPD, making no bones about being nazis. coogan just backed away...
the more aware you become of it; the more ubiquitous these guys are with their skinheads, muscles and gruesome or arcane symbol tattoos. see em everywhere. at a glance you can tell that most of them can barely play checkers, much less chess and while they rant about 'white supremacy'; can't speak decent english, mostly gutteral grunts.
they're there throughout history in one guise or another; shrug at one's own, and one's family's grave risk. my guess is that america has more of these than ever. it's a certainty that any attempt at a revolution, even one to just reinstall a constitutional government here, would have to deal with these thugs, who, far from preferring non-violence, like nothing better than shooting, bombing, beating and torturing people – albeit, the historical tradition of america forever – it's what they do for fun.
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» RE: ugh-ly
Posted by: left_witch
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Posted by: IwillIwill on Jun 17, 2009 7:58 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not one negative remark regarding these black racists.
I don't agree with any form of racism--it makes no sense--but I'm getting a bit p'd off at how racism against whites seems to be acceptable by the regular media dumbskies
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Posted by: Lilly on Jun 17, 2009 9:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: osd on Jun 17, 2009 9:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: salamah on Jun 18, 2009 12:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jom57 on Jun 18, 2009 9:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tagshow on Jun 18, 2009 7:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: centure7 on Jun 19, 2009 9:18 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any company that would not hire someone just because they believed something politically incorrect is a company I would chose to not do business with. And since Alternet is activiely supporting that very idea I'll pledge right now to *never* click on any of their advertisements.
Its kind of disgusting how people will raise hell when an employer discriminates based on sexual orientation, but then gladly celebrate discrimination when their hiring practices exclude those with a mindset they don't agree with.
All these comments in support of hypocrisy are disgusting and pro-oppression. If someone has committed a crime the record will show that and the person will have a difficult time joining the military.
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» RE: Oppression is for the Nazis, not for America.
Posted by: armorypk
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Posted by: erjoell on Jul 2, 2009 7:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: rainingwolf on Jun 17, 2009 2:06 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Vegetarianisim is more important!
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: Spiritgirl
» RE: There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: peterdel
» RE: Right on!
Posted by: lightwing1
» Remember that Fogherty hates both Jews and Arabs. Jews more; Hitler considered Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: yellow
» RE: emember that Fogherty hates both Jews and Arabs. Jews more; Hitler considered Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» RE: emember that Fogherty hates both Jews and Arabs. Jews more; Hitler considered Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: yellow
» Hitler did NOT consider Arabs to be Aryans
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: There Should Be A Flood of Comments
Posted by: madregal
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Posted by: Nodarse on Jun 17, 2009 2:38 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do you believe the repeal of "posse comitatus" (the pesky law that prohibited soldiers from being used as cops) is still a good idea?
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» Massachusetts leg. passed martial law bill
Posted by: plantland
» RE: Massachusetts leg. passed martial law bill
Posted by: TheNamelessCity
» RE: Never thought it was a good idea...
Posted by: lightwing1
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Posted by: progressive-life on Jun 17, 2009 2:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But one looks at what is going on in Europe for example, especially Sweden, where muslims are turning that country into an extremist hell and one can see how world opinion of Arabs isn't that good. Germany and Japan had similar problems after WW2!
Arabs need to stand up and denounce the extremist groups instead of being silent and the world opinion would change.
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» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: masthead
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: masthead
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: teel
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: mjglow
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Richard House
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: Quannah
» As ye sow, so shall ye reap
Posted by: u2r1
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: mkdelta69
» RE: Bad Rap
Posted by: progressive-life
» *** progressive-life = 2thepoint ***
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: JohnTruth2001 on Jun 17, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Emmories
» RE: Obama step-up and do anything? Hahaha, what a joke
Posted by: DCostello2
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Quannah
» [off-topic] life expectancy, Augusto Pinochet and DDT
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: [off-topic] life expectancy, Augusto Pinochet and DDT
Posted by: Quannah
» minor correction and useful links re DDT
Posted by: bingahaba
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: progressive-life
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: So now we have Neo-Nazis running amok in Iraq & Afhanistan! Let's end these illegal wars now!
Posted by: login@bugmenot.com
» *** ALERT! progressive-life = 2thepoint! ***
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: Perry Logan on Jun 17, 2009 2:58 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The May issue of Harper’s Magazine has an article called “Jesus Killed Mohammed: The Crusade for a Christian Military,” and there are a couple of books coming out on the subject. This all comes from a piece on Democracy Now called “The Crusade for a Christian Military”: Are US Forces Trying to Convert Afghans to Christianity?"
The neo-nazis fit right in to the new military mix. The original Nazis fancied themselves to be true Christians. Suddenly, the idea of a draft doesn't sound so bad.*
*Just kidding. I do not want anyone getting drafted.
My new YouTube video: Rupert Murdoch in Pain
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» RE: Christians sadists and Nazis--O no!
Posted by: scared
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Posted by: colinmeister on Jun 17, 2009 3:44 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» In the immortal words of Hannibal Lecter...
Posted by: njguy73
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Posted by: birdman1943 on Jun 17, 2009 4:15 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: "Taking out the garbage..."
Posted by: Cybershaman
» RE: birdbrain1943
Posted by: sasquuatch55
» "This is the army, Mr. Jones!"
Posted by: zooeyhall
» RE: "This is the army, Mr. Jones!"
Posted by: Quannah
» Murder is not part of a soldier's job, idiot
Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Murder is not part of a soldier's job, idiot
Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: Murder is not part of a soldier's job, idiot
Posted by: richholland
» RE: What is a Soldier?
Posted by: Quannah
» What a toughie
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: What a toughie
Posted by: Quannah
» when one has nothing to say but wants to play at "tough", one swears.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: when one has nothing to say but wants to play at "tough", one swears.
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: What is a Soldier?
Posted by: hilaryuk
» RE: What is a Soldier?
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: PJAW on Jun 17, 2009 4:23 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now that the lies behind the wars are becoming more widely understood, decent young people are refusing to enlist. If the wars were just, Americans would step forward and join the effort without having to be bribed and coerced and there would be no need to fill the ranks with people of questionable motives.
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» RE: This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: Quannah
» Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old?
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old?
Posted by: yellow
» RE: Stop Swearing; Are You 16 yrs old?
Posted by: Quannah
» Who do you think you are
Posted by: outsideagitator
» Well You Know Who I Am, Mr/Ms Stereotype
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: This is supposed to be surprising?
Posted by: hilaryuk
» Can the gal shoot? I don't need to date her to depend on her.
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» RE: Can the gal shoot? I don't need to date her to depend on her.
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I "hate ordinary Americans"?
Posted by: PJAW
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Posted by: masthead on Jun 17, 2009 5:05 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: sausage on Jun 17, 2009 5:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The U.S. military is a cauldron of racial identity gangs and criminal organizations like any prison
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» RE: Don't know why anybody is surprised
Posted by: johnwinthrop
» What are you talking about?
Posted by: sausage
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Posted by: plantland on Jun 17, 2009 6:21 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hate SPEECH seems to be used in training.
Let's hope a line is drawn at ACTIONS against fellow soldiers.
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» RE: Gays in the military, tattoos in the military-civil liberties
Posted by: Brb007
» RE: Gays in the military, tattoos in the military-civil liberties
Posted by: Quannah
» Tattoos on soldiers aren't protected
Posted by: brunowe
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Posted by: R.W. on Jun 17, 2009 7:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Scouts Train to Fight Terrorists, and More"
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/14/us/14explorers.html?_r=1
Photos show boys & girls, youngest just 14(!) who look like terrorists themselves! I thought they were kids "drafted" by a terrorist group!
Look too at the scary comments ADULTS make:“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County."
Fol is 'cut-off' version since site limits comments to 4,000chars.
By JENNIFER STEINHAUER-May 13, 2009
IMPERIAL, CA — 10 minutes into arrant mayhem in this town near the Mexican border, and the gunman, a disgruntled Iraq war veteran, has already taken out two people, one slumped in his desk, the other covered in blood on the floor.
In a training exercise run by Border Patrol agents, Explorer scouts from Visalia, Calif., prepare to storm a “hijacked” bus.
Imperial County relies on the local criminal justice system.
The responding officers — eight teenage boys and girls, the youngest 14 — face tripwire, a thin cloud of poisonous gas and loud shots — BAM! BAM! — fired from behind a flimsy wall. They move quickly, pellet guns drawn and masks affixed.
“United States Border Patrol! Put your hands up!” screams one in a voice cracking with adolescent determination as the suspect is subdued.
It is all quite a step up from the square knot.
The Explorers program, a co-ed affiliate of the Boy Scouts of America that began 60 years ago, is training thousands of young people in skills used to confront terrorism, illegal immigration and escalating border violence — an intense ratcheting up of one of the group’s longtime missions to prepare youths for more traditional jobs as police officers and firefighters.
“This is about being a true-blooded American guy and girl,” said A. J. Lowenthal, a sheriff’s deputy here in Imperial County, whose life clock, he says, is set around the Explorers events he helps run. “It fits right in with the honor and bravery of the Boy Scouts.”
The training, which leaders say is not intended to be applied outside the simulated Explorer setting, can involve chasing down illegal border crossers as well as more dangerous situations that include facing down terrorists and taking out “active shooters,” like those who bring gunfire and death to college campuses. In a simulation here of a raid on a marijuana field, several Explorers were instructed on how to quiet an obstreperous lookout.
“Put him on his face and put a knee in his back,” a Border Patrol agent explained. “I guarantee that he’ll shut up.”
One participant, Felix Arce, 16, said he liked “the discipline of the program,” which was something he said his life was lacking. “I want to be a lawyer, and this teaches you about how crimes are committed,” he said.
Cathy Noriega, also 16, said she was attracted by the guns. The group uses compressed-air guns — known as airsoft guns, which fire tiny plastic pellets — in the training exercises, and sometimes they shoot real guns on a closed range.
“I like shooting them,” Cathy said. “I like the sound they make. It gets me excited.”
If there are critics of the content or purpose of the law enforcement training, they have not made themselves known to the Explorers’ national organization in Irving, Tex., or to the volunteers here on the ground, national officials and local leaders said. That said, the Explorers have faced problems over the years. There have been numerous cases over the last three decades in which police officers supervising Explorers have been charged, in civil and criminal cases, with sexually abusing them.
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» RE: We have met the enemy & it is US!
Posted by: Cybershaman
» I'm a former Cub, Boy & Explorer Scout & Was Saddened!
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: sirios on Jun 17, 2009 7:23 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: For all those who aren't, pray for whitness
Posted by: johnwinthrop
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Posted by: QQOblivion on Jun 17, 2009 7:26 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Look at what happened at Abu Ghraib. Look at what happens still at Guantanamo and at US "black sites". The US military -- and the US government and the CIA too -- aren't exactly populated with people who love Arabs!
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Posted by: 6woolseyjoyce2 on Jun 17, 2009 7:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In Jesus's name Blackwater sets legal precedents to act outside the law while being paid handsome taxpayer money to fight corporate wars of, and for, profit.
We cheer rather than hang the corrupt perpetrators. While every country on earth beyond our borders the people say emphatically, "NO!" over and over to stop this obscene beast from destroying them. If only these 'brave Americans' were so united...
I don't want to wake up. I don't have that many years left in me...yet I cannot sleep.
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» RE: DogLeg
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: Ross Wolf on Jun 17, 2009 7:59 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider last week’s news that mentioned when Mexican drug cartel members in Acapulco got into a gunfight with police, cartel members threw fifty hand grenades. Imagine extremist in America fighting U.S police in that manner or using grenades in a racial war.
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» RE: What Happened To All Those Lost Military Weapons?
Posted by: ava1984
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Posted by: frankly1 on Jun 17, 2009 8:17 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Always has been!
Posted by: wbblack
» RE: Always has been!
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: clvngodess on Jun 17, 2009 8:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It makes complete sense to me to fill a killing and destruction system, like the Military, with the most despicable human beings one can find --gangs, thugs, neo-nazis, skinheads, sociopaths, etc.
The rest of the wrapper regarding honor, country, and all that shit is just that, shit.
War is about killing, and domination by any means imaginable. So why would they want people with ethics or morals or critical thinking skills in theatre? If you want to destroy something, someone, societies, you don't do it with Clark Kent or Brad Pitt. You hire the right creature for the job.
The other alternative, dare I say it, would be a draft.
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» RE: A draft...
Posted by: Cybershaman
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Posted by: MyLeftFoot on Jun 17, 2009 8:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
linked text
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Posted by: richholland on Jun 17, 2009 9:04 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: dooglefish on Jun 17, 2009 9:21 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Now what do we make of a military which trains skinheads who get their kicks from killing non-whites? It is time to revisit the blanket incrimination applied to all Islamic and pro-Arab groups. It is clearly time to cease judiciary and law enforcement fishing expeditions whose political motives serve AIPAC and not US.
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Posted by: Jaffe on Jun 17, 2009 9:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a Vietnam-era vet (though I remained stateside), and I remember clearly the blatant racism and bigotry both in Fort Dix, New Jersey, and Fort Leonard Wood, Missouri, where I trained. Most of it was directed against African-American soldiers, some against Jews or Latinos--there were very few identifiable Muslim-American soldiers then--except for a relatively small number of Black soldiers who were already under duress.
Of course, this was the time of the draft, and though there were fewer tattoos, there were probably proportionately as many "white supremacists" in the service.
It is true that now, with the burgeoning corporate-sponsored soldiers of fortune industry, there is more reason for white racists to learn how to kill the "right" way. And, yes, the military wants all the bodies it can get.
Ah, I don't expect our new President, worked up as he is about Afghanistan and Pakistan, to move on white supremacists in the military, do you?
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Posted by: bingahaba on Jun 17, 2009 9:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: D. Shenary on Jun 17, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: None of This Should Come as a Surprise
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: None of This Should Come as a Surprise
Posted by: robert.noll
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Posted by: ava1984 on Jun 17, 2009 9:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If they will pester a mildly retarded young man; why not go for the racists among us. They are in the millions! Surely, after all of these years, and all of the rotten things many of our troops have done, we do not labor in the delusion that our military is something in which to be proud.
What we have not been told is the spike in suicides in the ranks, many due to shame for what they were ordered to do in our name, and,those who are doing time for refusal of the illegal orders they could not obey in good conscience.
These are the faceless troops in which I am proud; the men in my family have served in every war at least as far back as the American Civil War. Because, they survived we are here; and, must not stand by and flag wave; while these horrors continue in our name!
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» RE: Really?! ......
Posted by: Zeugitai
» Most definitely we "must not stand by
Posted by: outsideagitator
» RE: Really?! ......
Posted by: R.W.
Comments are closed-
Posted by: willymack on Jun 17, 2009 10:09 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider if you will that if the bushies HADN'T stolen the 2000 & 2004 "elections", there probably wouldn't even be two illegal and brutal occupations of Iraq and Afghanistan, and (I think) there's a dandy chance 911 wouldn't have happened either. The connection between 911 and the invasions of Iraq and Afghanistan is just too obvious to be a "coincidence". One seems to follow the other.
The fact of skinheads and neo-nazis in the military is nothing more or less than a reflection of the mind-set of the sickos in the bush regime, who lack the guts to come out and declare themselves or face an armed enemy in a field of combat.
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» RE: All bushed up
Posted by: R.W.
» RE: All bushed up
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: aahpat on Jun 17, 2009 10:15 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In the 1990's a news story made the rounds about a group of police and federal agents of all agencies in Washington, D.C. that threw a weekend party in Virginia. They called themselves the "Old Boy Network". The held a cross lighting on Saturday night of the weekend.
Just last year a Philadelphia, PA Narcotics Task Force Police officer was discharged after it was found that he had a KKK poster in his locker that said "Blue by day white by night".
Trained soldiers get a preference in police department hiring.
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» RE: Authoritarians and fascists
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
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Posted by: aahpat on Jun 17, 2009 10:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: pomes on Jun 17, 2009 10:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Army is taking in gang bangers and thugs of all stripes as well. Just about anybody who can shoot a gun and kill people without losing too much sleep has a career waiting for them.
Some of these people are joining up to learn military skills and tactics.
LiveLeak: Gangs Make Military Unsafe
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» RE: Gang bangers too
Posted by: Quannah
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Posted by: Gabba_Gabba_Hey on Jun 17, 2009 11:19 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is reassuring. Maybe our AlterNet comments sometimes help too.
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Posted by: Quannah on Jun 17, 2009 11:41 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Does the U.S. Military and the Pentagon not understand that they are training those who would bring about the overthrow of our own government? Do they not realize that these white supremacist groups publicly announce that they are preparing for a RACE WAR in this country, as well as a violent revolution against the government, using the training given to them FREE OF CHARGE from the military?
The FBI identified 203 veterans involved in racist hate crimes. They are just the ones who were CAUGHT.
Strange, that I was dismissed as "ridiculous" when I started discussing this topic well over a year ago. The American people had better wake up.
I'm afraid this has gone past the tipping point, actually. Maybe it's time to start country-shopping again...
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Posted by: debmcd on Jun 17, 2009 11:43 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Zeugitai on Jun 17, 2009 12:09 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is one of those articles that exposes the actual reality of the Forcibly-United States of Amerigo from which secession is verboten. The country runs on hate, coercion, duplicity, lies, subjugation, exploitation, propaganda, and lust--the lust for money, sex, power, and blood. Remember that when you are standing in a church singing songs of expiation, or spouting hypocritical cant. Remember it when you sing your songs of peace on earth. Remember the murderous boys you grew up with, now tattooed with skulls, shooting people down all over the world with American weapons, insane music blaring in ipod headphones to squelch any rational thought. Remember it when you buy for your kids computer games that train them to kill with cold impunity, or take them to learn warfare at a paintball course. Remember it when you fly your flag of bloody colonization and empire. Remember it when you watch television programs and movies that glorify violence and killing.
These hate-driven killers are just another batch of American boys, born and raised the American way. They were bred to it by this "system." Their fathers killed foreigners in their wars, or shot people on the streets as cops, and now it is the turn of these animals. What else did you expect? That these kids would grow up to be pacifists? How is that possible in America? A young pacifist would likely be beaten to death in our American schools and on our streets.
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Posted by: Aredee on Jun 17, 2009 12:44 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It turns out some faculty members were apparently part of the whole thing, to the point where non-fundamentalist students were dropping out due to harassment or just plain disgust.
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Posted by: hilaryuk on Jun 17, 2009 2:03 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And presumably, when an inevitable retaliatory/terrorist attack is launched on American soil, that government and the American people would throw their hands in the air and wail "why do they hate us?". Believe it or not, it will not be because they hate your freedoms, political philosophy or religion. It will be because they hate being occupied, or hate being killed, or hate being dispossessed and bullied. Lord knows, they may even blame the whole of the US for the actions of American racists in uniform - after all, we ourselves are only too happy to blame all Muslims for the actions of a minority (see many of the comments above).
Of course, by then the US will be running a parallel risk of being assailed by internal right-wing terrorists who happen to have been well trained courtesy of the taxpayer. Presumably that training will ensure that they are somewhat more efficient and ambitious than hitherto.
Sometimes the Bible can be right: we reap what we sow. Of course, tackling the problem could be construed as an insult to the entire military, so perhaps we should all turn over and go back to sleep.
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» RE: amification upon bloody ramification
Posted by: R.W.
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Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jun 17, 2009 2:21 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» I thought it was "liberating and empowering"...
Posted by: njguy73
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Posted by: hilly on Jun 17, 2009 6:11 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We were never allow to say "I hate...." If it was a person, a type of food, or anything else, we were to say,"I dislike".
Both my sister and I thought that this was a STUPID rule, but Mom ruled.
In my old age, I see where she was going with that. I did the same thing with my children, and they do the same with theirs.
You see, no matter how angry you are, if you cannot say "hate", it somehow makes you stop and evaluate things. Try it.
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Posted by: tazdelaney on Jun 17, 2009 5:04 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
7/11/06, when i was kidnapped/beaten and injected multiple times by goons in a black van with cop cherries flashing... at first we thought it was probably paid for by our adversaries over the stolen business. but in 2008, we learned that just 3 days before it happened to me, one of the fellows we'd just worked with doing antiwar websites and posters, was identically attacked, same exact MO: heading towards his car, jumped by guys, dragged into a black van, beat him, injected him and dropped him unconscious at the same hospital i was.
he was leaving the UN, having been an organizer for the huge antiwar demonstration there for which i'd designed and produced high-visibility posters, seen worldwide by millions. this let us know that it wasn't the business-thieves who had me hit. it was persons, official or otherwise, with political motives who hired these pros. as we realized at the time, the intention wasn't to kill but just damn near do so. those guys could've killed me just slamming me to the ground harder, if they'd meant to. however, whether the beating or the chemicals; health hasn't been the same since and likely never will be.
amy called bill kunkel, the fellow who introduced us in 1983. kunkel, himself anything but a cop, is from a long line of NYPD. his tank-like sister is a lieutenant here, used to be in charge of the ghouliani group of ultra-thug cops under whom hundreds (some say as many as 800 citywide), of virtually all non-white new yorkers died 'suspiciously, including the world-famous shootings of diallo. needless to say, no jail time for those nazis, in fact one of them, ironically related to amy and from a liberal hippie jewish family in brooklyn (go figure...), joined the service to go to iraq for more kiling, having gotten a taste for murder on the force. all of the diallo killers were back on the NYPD but him...
his sister told kunkel that we were probably hit by off-duty cops. she told him that such 'moonlighting' was rampant. she added that there were as many as 400 aryan nation types on the NYPD, usually preferring to work in non-white neighborhoods, of course. dober-men off the leash among the civilians. the vast majority of police and military are rightwing, always manning the front lines for fascism.
mentioning this to coogan, he told me he'd recently been at a bar where a guy introduced him to a table of what turned out to be skinhead NYPD, making no bones about being nazis. coogan just backed away...
the more aware you become of it; the more ubiquitous these guys are with their skinheads, muscles and gruesome or arcane symbol tattoos. see em everywhere. at a glance you can tell that most of them can barely play checkers, much less chess and while they rant about 'white supremacy'; can't speak decent english, mostly gutteral grunts.
they're there throughout history in one guise or another; shrug at one's own, and one's family's grave risk. my guess is that america has more of these than ever. it's a certainty that any attempt at a revolution, even one to just reinstall a constitutional government here, would have to deal with these thugs, who, far from preferring non-violence, like nothing better than shooting, bombing, beating and torturing people – albeit, the historical tradition of america forever – it's what they do for fun.
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» RE: ugh-ly
Posted by: left_witch
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Posted by: IwillIwill on Jun 17, 2009 7:58 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not one negative remark regarding these black racists.
I don't agree with any form of racism--it makes no sense--but I'm getting a bit p'd off at how racism against whites seems to be acceptable by the regular media dumbskies
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Posted by: Lilly on Jun 17, 2009 9:05 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: osd on Jun 17, 2009 9:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: salamah on Jun 18, 2009 12:46 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jom57 on Jun 18, 2009 9:47 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tagshow on Jun 18, 2009 7:32 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: centure7 on Jun 19, 2009 9:18 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Any company that would not hire someone just because they believed something politically incorrect is a company I would chose to not do business with. And since Alternet is activiely supporting that very idea I'll pledge right now to *never* click on any of their advertisements.
Its kind of disgusting how people will raise hell when an employer discriminates based on sexual orientation, but then gladly celebrate discrimination when their hiring practices exclude those with a mindset they don't agree with.
All these comments in support of hypocrisy are disgusting and pro-oppression. If someone has committed a crime the record will show that and the person will have a difficult time joining the military.
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» RE: Oppression is for the Nazis, not for America.
Posted by: armorypk
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Posted by: erjoell on Jul 2, 2009 7:23 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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