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Why Are Women Still Treated Like Second-Class Soldiers?
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Editor's Note: This article is adapted from The Lonely Soldier: The Private War of Women Serving in Iraq (Beacon Press).
Army specialist Mickiela Montoya was standing silently in the back of a Manhattan classroom while a group of male Iraq war veterans spoke to a small audience about their experiences as soldiers. It was November 2006, and she had been back from Iraq for a year, but was still too insecure to speak out in public. Anyway, the room was full of men, and Montoya had learned that a lot of men aren't much interested in listening to military women.
Montoya, who grew up in a Mexican family in East Los Angeles, served in Iraq for eleven months, from 2005-2006, with the 642nd Division Aviation Support Battalion. She was only 19 back then, but by the time she turned 21 she was as bitter as any old veteran, not only because of the lack of recognition she was receiving as a combat vet but because of the way she had been treated as a soldier--by her comrades, the army and by the Department of Veterans Affairs.
Many female veterans share Montoya's anger. They join the military for the same reasons men do--to escape dead-end towns or dysfunctional families, to pay for college or seek adventure, to follow their ideals or find a career--only to find themselves denigrated and sexually hounded by many of the "brothers" on whom they are supposed to rely. And when they go to war, this harassment does not necessarily stop. The double traumas of combat and sexual persecution may be why a 2008 RAND study found that female veterans are suffering double the rates of depression and post-traumatic stress disorder for their male counterparts.
Not many people realize the extent to which the Iraq War represents a historic change for American women soldiers. More women have fought and died in Iraq than in all the wars since World War II put together. Over 206,000 have served in the Middle East since March 2003, most of them in Iraq; and over 600 have been wounded and 104 have died in Iraq alone, according to the Department of Defense. In Iraq, one in ten troops is a woman.
Yet the military--from Pentagon to the troops on the ground--has been slow to recognize the service these women perform, or even to see them as real soldiers. Rather, it is permeated with age-old stereotypes of women as passive sex objects who have no business fighting and cannot be relied upon in battle. As Montoya said about her time as a soldier, "The only thing the guys let you be if you're a girl in the military is a bitch, a ho, or a dyke. You're a bitch if you won't sleep with them, a ho if you even have one boyfriend, and a dyke if they don't like you. So you can't win."
The pinnacle of this derogatory attitude toward women is the Pentagon's ban on women in ground combat, which it reaffirmed in 2006 despite being perfectly aware that in Iraq women are in combat all the time. (Speculation is that President Obama may finally reverse this ban, but it stands as of now.) Because the US military is so short of troops and Iraq's battlefields are towns and roads, women are frequently thrown into jobs indistinguishable from those of the all-male infantry, cavalry and armor divisions, often under the guise of "combat support." They "man" machine guns atop tanks and trucks, guard convoys, raid houses, search and arrest Iraqis, drive military vehicles along bomb-ridden roads, and are killing and being killed. In Afghanistan, too, women find themselves in these positions.
Yet even though more than 2,000 women who fought in Iraq or Afghanistan have been awarded Bronze Stars, several for bravery and valor in combat; more than 1,300 have earned the Combat Action Badge; and two have been awarded Silver Stars, the military's top honor for bravery in combat, the official ban continues. This makes it difficult for women to be taken seriously as soldiers or advance in their careers, let alone win respect.
The Pentagon justifies the ban by blaming civilian attitudes. American society, its policy statement says, believes that femininity is incompatible with combat, and will not tolerate the killing and mutilation of its mothers and daughters. Likewise, it argues, soldiers are more troubled by the sight of women being wounded and killed than of men, so will put themselves at extra risk trying to protect women in battle. And finally, women in combat would endanger men because of their lesser strength.
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Posted by: Bright Penny on May 25, 2009 2:24 AM
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» RE: Sad Comment on the American Military
Posted by: johnrohan
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Posted by: joeocho88 on May 25, 2009 3:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OF COURSE, NOT ALL OF OUR SOLDIERS ARE LIKE THIS. The very qualities that make them able to kill with no or minimal remorse are the very qualities that make them abuse women,and other MEN they don't feel are "manly" enough...
Women get it VERY,VERY BAD in LAW ENFORCEMENT too unless they work in CORRECTIONS (JAIL) because they HAVE to have WOMEN handling WOMEN prisoners otherwise there would be a LOT of sexual harassment and sexual assault suits against the agency involved. Don't forget that rape is a means of showing dominance,contempt, hatred and WHO IS BOSS! It is NOT about love or even sex because I think many of the guys who engage in it prefer MEN as sexual partners anyway.
NOT ALL MALES ARE LIKE THIS. NOT ALL MILITARY PEOPLE,FIREFIGHTERS, EMS CREWS, PRIVATE SECURITY CONTRACTORS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL ARE LIKE THIS BUT FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, ENOUGH ARE THAT THEY DO NOT WANT WOMEN WORKING WITH THEM AT ALL AND ARE WILLING TO RAPE, HUMILIATE, HURT AND EVEN KILL THEM SO THEY WON'T WANT TO BE THERE!
My gay friends tell me there are certain dangerous rogues like Jeffery Dahmer and Elmer Wayne Gacy that even prey upon gay MEN they believe are too "effeminate."Sad,scary and dangerous! Effective killers, would have made good protective services personnel...Wonder how many of them are serving now--on the streets and on the battlefield? WOMEN ARE NOT THE ONLY VICTIMS FROM MEN LIKE THIS!
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 25, 2009 3:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The pregnancy rates among female soldiers spike as a unit nears deployment. The soldier could be charged with malingering under UCMJ but I feel they should simply be fired. They should be forced to pay back a prorated portion of any enlistment bonuses, ROTC scholarships etc. Instead they get to stay behind on Rear Detail doing office work while the real soldiers are doing what they signed up to for.
I do not know why female soldiers that do their job do not share my outrage. I have meet many female soldiers that make excuses for their malingering counterparts.
CPT L.
P.S.
Shave your heads and hold yourselves to the same Physical Training standards as men.
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» Did this woman get "knocked up" by herself...
Posted by: brer
» They deliberately get pregnant to avoid doing their job.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI
» RE: WHEN THEY REALIZE THE HATRED THEY FACE, YOU DAMN STRAIGHT THEY WANT OUT!
Posted by: joeocho88
» Learn how to convey a message.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI
» RE: Learn how to convey a message.
Posted by: mcyclemama
» A dumb vagina with nothing to say.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI
» RE: A dumb vagina with nothing to say.
Posted by: redhead1954
» RE: They deliberately get pregnant to avoid doing their job.
Posted by: redhead1954
» RE: Until women face consequences for avoiding deployments by getting knocked up, I don’t care about...
Posted by: minimiw
» Do you have any proof?
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» STFU asshole. As a former infantry officer, RVN, I would welcome anyone
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: hilaryuk on May 25, 2009 4:53 AM
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» RE: THEY HAVE A HISTORY WITH NATIVE AMERICAN WOMEN ANYWAY...
Posted by: joeocho88
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Posted by: ellie on May 25, 2009 5:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
rape is a tool that is used to control women... well known that it has been used throughout history as a way to control men... but in this case, religious beliefs of the 'enemy' forbid rape as a weapon...
if you're going to sign up, then do it with your eyes wide open and with as much information as you can get... know the dangers of military life and decide if you want to place yourself in harms way beforehand...
before 'patriotism', 'a guaranteed job for your enlistment time', 'money', 'benefits and bonuses', think about how this decision may affect the rest of your entire life...
and to all women who have served or are still serving... thanks and hugs this memorial day!!!
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» RE:Many Women Who Have Served just Want to Forget It
Posted by: joeocho88
» Many Women Who Have Served just Want to Forget It
Posted by: lyta
» RE: before you sign on the dotted line...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: before you sign on the dotted line...
Posted by: lyta
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Posted by: Daito on May 25, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Are you saying that equal rights means accepting RAPE?
Posted by: brer
» RE: Are you saying that equal rights means accepting RAPE?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: You wanted equal rights - welcome to reality WHOSE
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» You must be an idiot
Posted by: SalB
» You ARE and idiot - 'nuff said. And get back on your fucking meds.
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: Magginkat on May 25, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women have been harassed throughout the history of their military service.
I joined the Air force 6 months after graduating from high school as a means to earn a college education. My period of service occurred during the Vietnam fiasco.
I never served in Vietnam but for a woman in the military it seems like a combat zone a great deal of the time, even when serving in places like Hawaii, Florida or California. At times I probably would have felt safer in Vietnam.
I quit after one enlistment and the major reason I quit was the sexual harassment.
The men I worked with and some of my superiors made my life miserable because I refused their advances. My training was for secretarial work but I was frequently ordered to work jobs that included heavy lifting & extra hours. I was passed over for promotions that were almost automatic at the time even though my immediate superior was giving me excellent job performance ratings.
At the time I was so naive that didn't realize that my lack of promotions was due to the fact that I didn't "put out". My experience was in no way like what the women named here went through. I did realize that the extra work I was forced to do was because I would not play their games.
I am sickened but not surprised to hear that they are getting away with murder & rape. The military brass will never do anything about it unless forced to do so. Just look at the results when they do decide to 'do something'. The offenders more often than not, get a slap on the hand or even promotion.
This is too disgusting for words. I would not bet a dime on the DOD "improvements". I've seen the harassment up close and in person over the years and it seems to only get worse.
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» RE: THE ARMY IN THE VIETNAM WAR WAS BAD FOR EVERYBODY--WOMEN ESPECIALLY!
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: THE ARMY IN THE VIETNAM WAR WAS BAD FOR EVERYBODY--WOMEN ESPECIALLY!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: MEN AND WOMEN CAN BOTH LOVE THEIR COUNTRY AND SERVE!
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: Why Are Women Still Treated Like Second-Class Soldiers
Posted by: lyta
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Posted by: leafsong1 on May 25, 2009 7:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on May 25, 2009 8:13 AM
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» RE: My concern is the rape and sexual abuse in the military
Posted by: johnrohan
» RE: My concern is the rape and sexual abuse in the military
Posted by: lyta
» Give them all side arms and plenty of ammo and permission to shoot any fucker who tries something.
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: sirios on May 25, 2009 8:18 AM
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» Feminism
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: minimiw on May 25, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before reading this article I had some idea that gender equality was not what it should be in the military - but I really had no idea of the extent of it. How the military can let these men get away with what they have done to our female soldiers is beyond me. The rapes and murders of these women must be prosecuted and we as citizens must be vocal about what is happening for something to be done about it.
This article is a very strong first step in that direction and I applaud the author for her courage in seeking out this information. I will be purchasing her book in the near future.
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 25, 2009 9:25 AM
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» RE: Give it up !
Posted by: Femmy68
» Give it up !
Posted by: lyta
» RE: Give it up !
Posted by: lyta
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 25, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is a further fact is that any military force, like the proverbial chain, is as strong as its weakest link. A unit with a soldier or soldiers who are women is an effeminized, female unit, capable of just what its women can do. Any observation of athletics, whether competition or training, leaves no question concerning what that means.
What is also obvious it the sacrifice being made to the great idol feminism. Some of those "sacrifices" are young women like Jessica Lynch (have we forgotten all that?). First, we are failing to accomplish missions in which we can't afford to fail. Military forces are not only being weakened and slowed by their inferior members, but soldiers - of both sexes - are being wounded and dying because one or more of their team is physically less powerful and less competent than it would be otherwise.
It's time to stop this nonsense ("not of the senses"), but we won't. Language, rhetoric, and the virtual reality they create - the "lie told often enough" - will obscure - drown out - what history and the record is saying. How sick can you get?!
How sick, how blind - when you can't recognize the difference between man and woman, what else can't you recognize? What else can't you see?
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» RE: More virtual, in word only, reality . . .
Posted by: Femmy68
» RE: More virtual, in word only, reality . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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Posted by: usaretired on May 25, 2009 10:30 AM
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» RE: It's not a Man's Army Anymore
Posted by: johnrohan
» RE: It's not a Man's Army Anymore
Posted by: Vik
» Thank You
Posted by: mcubed
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Posted by: avabird on May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WOMEN are the worlds niggers...
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Posted by: theracerace on May 25, 2009 10:48 AM
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Thanks, Alternet, for bringing us this important breaking news!
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Posted by: Alenna on May 25, 2009 11:35 AM
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First, as far as sexual harassment is concerned, I saw very little working in smaller units (squads, platoons) where women and men worked as part of a team. We had female commanders and first sergeants, and any harassment was dealt with quickly. However, when our small teams (I was a linguist) joined up with Big Army battalions and divisions - in training exercises or in the field, then the incidents of harassment (getting stared at, whistled at, sexual gestures) went up a lot. The guys on our teams would sometimes go with us females to "protect" us from the other guys. Usually those harassing guys were from all-male combat arms units. We had certain unit rules - no one go out alone, stay away from certain areas; it's not unlike rules you would follow in US cities at night. Soldiers are a mixed bag - there are ex-gang members, patriotic types, religious types, criminals, people trying to get money for education, and people trying to get away from a boring existence in a small town. The military as an organization doesn't condone sexual harassment, but there are many Neanderthal males who can't see women as contributing anything, except as nurses and whores. I have to add though that there were some very promiscuous women in the military, who really hurt the rest of us.
As far as the ban on women in ground combat is concerned, it depends on the job, but in certain jobs, the overwhelming majority of women don't have the upper-body strength to carry and lift all that combat gear - more than 100 pounds, required for some of the duties. I worked with an SF ODA for a few months, and I think women could mentally hang with them, but physically they would fall way back (and to be fair, most men wouldn't make it either). Some jobs REQUIRE upper-body strength. There may be a rare woman or two who is into some serious weight training that might have the ability, so I do think women should have the right to try out for those jobs, but with no special considerations - they have to pass the exact same physical tests as the men.
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» RE: I was in the Army
Posted by: morph999
» RE: I was in the Army
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Are you fucking dense?
Posted by: jimidee
» morph999
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: Femmy68 on May 25, 2009 1:59 PM
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» RE: These are 'Mericun men committing these crimes...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: Femmy68 on May 25, 2009 2:05 PM
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» If so
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: infuriated
Posted by: lwbaby
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Posted by: brianct on May 25, 2009 3:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are women so keen to go to war in Iraq? ARe rthey also killing iraqi women and children.
Have they also participated in raids on iraqi homes? have they fired on iraqi families in their vehicles?
This whole article is skewed.
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Posted by: brianct on May 25, 2009 3:15 PM
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And what do they think of their male counterparts doing so?
This question needs to be considered because it seems to be escaping peoples attention.
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Posted by: jimidee on May 25, 2009 3:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who are at least a little red around the neck;
and who harbor all kinds of psychological inferiority complexes BEFORE they enlist;
and who have disrespected woman long before they enlisted, as exhibited by the way they have treated their girl friends, sisters, etc.;
what do you expect them to act like when they get in the lawless environment of a war zone?
Any woman who voluntarily subjects themselves to the company of this kind of man in this kind of situation is crazy. Hell, this kind of behavior exists in the military academies, where there is supposedly the cream of the crop...but they are really just cowboys like all the rest, except they have some book sense.
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Posted by: JDutty6 on May 25, 2009 7:05 PM
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RT
Privacy Center
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» Wanker Alert!
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
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Posted by: lwbaby on May 25, 2009 8:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess sexual harrassment is in the mind of the beholder and is pretty subjective when you come right down to it and if that is included in these studies it's like calling a ball a strike.
Rape is rape and is abhorrent, period but exists in all aspects of our society and is underreported there as well. My daughter has only been treated with the utmost respect by her peers (boot camp DIs notwithstanding). I'd like to hear more from female soldiers before taking this at face value.
Happy Memorial Day to all and especially those who have or are currently serving our wonderful Country.
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Posted by: LoveAlex59 on May 26, 2009 2:37 AM
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» RE: Congress does not allow it!
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Congress does not allow it!
Posted by: LoveAlex59
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Posted by: Scott24 on May 26, 2009 4:05 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider even the coed sports teams at the U.S. Air Force Academy (when that experiment was tried), with male-and-female teams playing against all-male teams. The all-male teams ALWAYS won, forcing a change in the US Air Force Academy's sports teams configurations to avoid this embarrassment . . . . Now, imagine that in war and not sports. A disaster in the making.
There is an unfortunate tendency in American society to glamorize women as being capable of doing anything and everything that a man can do. Well, that is pure propaganda. Women are second-rate soldiers - and this has been proven over millenia - because they do not have men's strength, stamina, ability to withstand pain, speed of complex reflexes, spatial abilities, and sheer aggressiveness in combat. The average 20-year-old woman has no more strength than the average 50-year-old man. Women are great with verbal skills because they think and act verbally, but they cannot comprehend that men deal with spatial objects, spatial movement, and abstract concepts in ways that are beyond the average woman. Apply that to combat and you will begin to understand that unless one is talking an enemy to death, it means men will be better in combat than women.
And, no, just because you have one woman in 10,000 who can do everything a man can do and maybe more (because perhaps she's really a genetic male phenotypically expressed as a female?), that you allow her or especially all women to fight in combat! Remember, it's not the individual soldier that matters as much as it is the combat UNIT. Introduce sex into a unit and you get lower unit morale and combat readiness - it's a fact of nature and one we cannot avoid. Oh, yeah, I can hear it now, from the women and male apologists: let MEN adapt and "shape up." Why should they? You want to reduce their aggressiveness and effectiveness just so a few second-rate women soldiers can play at being soldiers! What a joke. Let's see the U.S. military come up against a First-Rate military (not insurrectionists) in war and with women soldiers in the ranks we will get our asses kicked all the way back to Kansas. Guaranteed. And in your heart of hearts you all know this, so why pretend?
Read these books that set out the reality of women in combat and in the military at all: Kingsley Browne's CO-ED COMBAT and FLIRTING WITH DISASTER. These are just two books that document the problem and the mythology created by the establishment about women in the military.
Yes, there are rapes in the military but, remember, it works both ways with female soldiers using sex to make sure they are coddled in basic training and can and have terrorized drill instructors and others with false charges of sexual harassment! In civilian life, rape is the most OVER-reported and lied-about crime. Government figures themselves show that FORTY PERCENT of all rape charges are FALSE. Yes, FALSE. Compare that with the normal false reporting rate for all other crimes (on the order of 2%) and you get an idea of why women's rape charges are to be greatly distrusted. That's not to say that it doesn't happen and that it should not be severely punished when true, BUT these rape claims are highly suspect.
And, men, you are your own worst enemy. Those of you who think having women in the military and especially in combat is a great idea need to stop spouting such nonsense just so you can be liked and laid by women. Men in America have become such wusses! It's time to wake up & act before the next real war starts and thousands of MEN die on the battlefield altar of PC politics.
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Posted by: reelman on May 26, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not know a single female that I can't kill with my bare hands...do you?
How about a nice gutsy thread on how woman are treated like dogs by moslems?
Ohhhh, no guts for that...liberals are sooo gutless.
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» RE: ALITY
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: ALITY
Posted by: Starfall Deception
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 26, 2009 2:47 PM
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Posted by: Alenna on May 26, 2009 4:09 PM
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Women are better at language skills - It's a scientific fact. I remember an immersion language training course that had to be modified (made easier) because 2 men were too "weak" and slow to understand what was being said. Ruined the class for the rest of us. Maybe men should be "banned" from becoming linguists in the military, because they are weaker than women are. Just a thought.
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 26, 2009 4:59 PM
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Posted by: lyta on May 27, 2009 11:05 AM
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Posted by: WyrdSister on May 27, 2009 11:23 AM
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 27, 2009 6:15 PM
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Posted by: Bright Penny on May 25, 2009 2:24 AM
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» RE: Sad Comment on the American Military
Posted by: johnrohan
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Posted by: joeocho88 on May 25, 2009 3:22 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
OF COURSE, NOT ALL OF OUR SOLDIERS ARE LIKE THIS. The very qualities that make them able to kill with no or minimal remorse are the very qualities that make them abuse women,and other MEN they don't feel are "manly" enough...
Women get it VERY,VERY BAD in LAW ENFORCEMENT too unless they work in CORRECTIONS (JAIL) because they HAVE to have WOMEN handling WOMEN prisoners otherwise there would be a LOT of sexual harassment and sexual assault suits against the agency involved. Don't forget that rape is a means of showing dominance,contempt, hatred and WHO IS BOSS! It is NOT about love or even sex because I think many of the guys who engage in it prefer MEN as sexual partners anyway.
NOT ALL MALES ARE LIKE THIS. NOT ALL MILITARY PEOPLE,FIREFIGHTERS, EMS CREWS, PRIVATE SECURITY CONTRACTORS AND LAW ENFORCEMENT PERSONNEL ARE LIKE THIS BUT FROM WHAT I HAVE SEEN, ENOUGH ARE THAT THEY DO NOT WANT WOMEN WORKING WITH THEM AT ALL AND ARE WILLING TO RAPE, HUMILIATE, HURT AND EVEN KILL THEM SO THEY WON'T WANT TO BE THERE!
My gay friends tell me there are certain dangerous rogues like Jeffery Dahmer and Elmer Wayne Gacy that even prey upon gay MEN they believe are too "effeminate."Sad,scary and dangerous! Effective killers, would have made good protective services personnel...Wonder how many of them are serving now--on the streets and on the battlefield? WOMEN ARE NOT THE ONLY VICTIMS FROM MEN LIKE THIS!
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Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI on May 25, 2009 3:43 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The pregnancy rates among female soldiers spike as a unit nears deployment. The soldier could be charged with malingering under UCMJ but I feel they should simply be fired. They should be forced to pay back a prorated portion of any enlistment bonuses, ROTC scholarships etc. Instead they get to stay behind on Rear Detail doing office work while the real soldiers are doing what they signed up to for.
I do not know why female soldiers that do their job do not share my outrage. I have meet many female soldiers that make excuses for their malingering counterparts.
CPT L.
P.S.
Shave your heads and hold yourselves to the same Physical Training standards as men.
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» Did this woman get "knocked up" by herself...
Posted by: brer
» They deliberately get pregnant to avoid doing their job.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI
» RE: WHEN THEY REALIZE THE HATRED THEY FACE, YOU DAMN STRAIGHT THEY WANT OUT!
Posted by: joeocho88
» Learn how to convey a message.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI
» RE: Learn how to convey a message.
Posted by: mcyclemama
» A dumb vagina with nothing to say.
Posted by: Honky the Nihilist VI
» RE: A dumb vagina with nothing to say.
Posted by: redhead1954
» RE: They deliberately get pregnant to avoid doing their job.
Posted by: redhead1954
» RE: Until women face consequences for avoiding deployments by getting knocked up, I don’t care about...
Posted by: minimiw
» Do you have any proof?
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» STFU asshole. As a former infantry officer, RVN, I would welcome anyone
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: hilaryuk on May 25, 2009 4:53 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: THEY HAVE A HISTORY WITH NATIVE AMERICAN WOMEN ANYWAY...
Posted by: joeocho88
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Posted by: ellie on May 25, 2009 5:01 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
rape is a tool that is used to control women... well known that it has been used throughout history as a way to control men... but in this case, religious beliefs of the 'enemy' forbid rape as a weapon...
if you're going to sign up, then do it with your eyes wide open and with as much information as you can get... know the dangers of military life and decide if you want to place yourself in harms way beforehand...
before 'patriotism', 'a guaranteed job for your enlistment time', 'money', 'benefits and bonuses', think about how this decision may affect the rest of your entire life...
and to all women who have served or are still serving... thanks and hugs this memorial day!!!
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» RE:Many Women Who Have Served just Want to Forget It
Posted by: joeocho88
» Many Women Who Have Served just Want to Forget It
Posted by: lyta
» RE: before you sign on the dotted line...
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: before you sign on the dotted line...
Posted by: lyta
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Posted by: Daito on May 25, 2009 5:11 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Are you saying that equal rights means accepting RAPE?
Posted by: brer
» RE: Are you saying that equal rights means accepting RAPE?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: You wanted equal rights - welcome to reality WHOSE
Posted by: VZEQICVA
» You must be an idiot
Posted by: SalB
» You ARE and idiot - 'nuff said. And get back on your fucking meds.
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: Magginkat on May 25, 2009 6:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Women have been harassed throughout the history of their military service.
I joined the Air force 6 months after graduating from high school as a means to earn a college education. My period of service occurred during the Vietnam fiasco.
I never served in Vietnam but for a woman in the military it seems like a combat zone a great deal of the time, even when serving in places like Hawaii, Florida or California. At times I probably would have felt safer in Vietnam.
I quit after one enlistment and the major reason I quit was the sexual harassment.
The men I worked with and some of my superiors made my life miserable because I refused their advances. My training was for secretarial work but I was frequently ordered to work jobs that included heavy lifting & extra hours. I was passed over for promotions that were almost automatic at the time even though my immediate superior was giving me excellent job performance ratings.
At the time I was so naive that didn't realize that my lack of promotions was due to the fact that I didn't "put out". My experience was in no way like what the women named here went through. I did realize that the extra work I was forced to do was because I would not play their games.
I am sickened but not surprised to hear that they are getting away with murder & rape. The military brass will never do anything about it unless forced to do so. Just look at the results when they do decide to 'do something'. The offenders more often than not, get a slap on the hand or even promotion.
This is too disgusting for words. I would not bet a dime on the DOD "improvements". I've seen the harassment up close and in person over the years and it seems to only get worse.
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» RE: THE ARMY IN THE VIETNAM WAR WAS BAD FOR EVERYBODY--WOMEN ESPECIALLY!
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: THE ARMY IN THE VIETNAM WAR WAS BAD FOR EVERYBODY--WOMEN ESPECIALLY!
Posted by: richholland
» RE: MEN AND WOMEN CAN BOTH LOVE THEIR COUNTRY AND SERVE!
Posted by: joeocho88
» RE: Why Are Women Still Treated Like Second-Class Soldiers
Posted by: lyta
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Posted by: leafsong1 on May 25, 2009 7:13 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Outspokengrandmother on May 25, 2009 8:13 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: My concern is the rape and sexual abuse in the military
Posted by: johnrohan
» RE: My concern is the rape and sexual abuse in the military
Posted by: lyta
» Give them all side arms and plenty of ammo and permission to shoot any fucker who tries something.
Posted by: thekidde
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Posted by: sirios on May 25, 2009 8:18 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Feminism
Posted by: messedup
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Posted by: minimiw on May 25, 2009 9:17 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Before reading this article I had some idea that gender equality was not what it should be in the military - but I really had no idea of the extent of it. How the military can let these men get away with what they have done to our female soldiers is beyond me. The rapes and murders of these women must be prosecuted and we as citizens must be vocal about what is happening for something to be done about it.
This article is a very strong first step in that direction and I applaud the author for her courage in seeking out this information. I will be purchasing her book in the near future.
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 25, 2009 9:25 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Give it up !
Posted by: Femmy68
» Give it up !
Posted by: lyta
» RE: Give it up !
Posted by: lyta
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Posted by: Walks-in-Storms on May 25, 2009 9:53 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is a further fact is that any military force, like the proverbial chain, is as strong as its weakest link. A unit with a soldier or soldiers who are women is an effeminized, female unit, capable of just what its women can do. Any observation of athletics, whether competition or training, leaves no question concerning what that means.
What is also obvious it the sacrifice being made to the great idol feminism. Some of those "sacrifices" are young women like Jessica Lynch (have we forgotten all that?). First, we are failing to accomplish missions in which we can't afford to fail. Military forces are not only being weakened and slowed by their inferior members, but soldiers - of both sexes - are being wounded and dying because one or more of their team is physically less powerful and less competent than it would be otherwise.
It's time to stop this nonsense ("not of the senses"), but we won't. Language, rhetoric, and the virtual reality they create - the "lie told often enough" - will obscure - drown out - what history and the record is saying. How sick can you get?!
How sick, how blind - when you can't recognize the difference between man and woman, what else can't you recognize? What else can't you see?
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» RE: More virtual, in word only, reality . . .
Posted by: Femmy68
» RE: More virtual, in word only, reality . . .
Posted by: Walks-in-Storms
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Posted by: usaretired on May 25, 2009 10:30 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It's not a Man's Army Anymore
Posted by: johnrohan
» RE: It's not a Man's Army Anymore
Posted by: Vik
» Thank You
Posted by: mcubed
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Posted by: avabird on May 25, 2009 10:42 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
WOMEN are the worlds niggers...
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Posted by: theracerace on May 25, 2009 10:48 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thanks, Alternet, for bringing us this important breaking news!
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Posted by: Alenna on May 25, 2009 11:35 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First, as far as sexual harassment is concerned, I saw very little working in smaller units (squads, platoons) where women and men worked as part of a team. We had female commanders and first sergeants, and any harassment was dealt with quickly. However, when our small teams (I was a linguist) joined up with Big Army battalions and divisions - in training exercises or in the field, then the incidents of harassment (getting stared at, whistled at, sexual gestures) went up a lot. The guys on our teams would sometimes go with us females to "protect" us from the other guys. Usually those harassing guys were from all-male combat arms units. We had certain unit rules - no one go out alone, stay away from certain areas; it's not unlike rules you would follow in US cities at night. Soldiers are a mixed bag - there are ex-gang members, patriotic types, religious types, criminals, people trying to get money for education, and people trying to get away from a boring existence in a small town. The military as an organization doesn't condone sexual harassment, but there are many Neanderthal males who can't see women as contributing anything, except as nurses and whores. I have to add though that there were some very promiscuous women in the military, who really hurt the rest of us.
As far as the ban on women in ground combat is concerned, it depends on the job, but in certain jobs, the overwhelming majority of women don't have the upper-body strength to carry and lift all that combat gear - more than 100 pounds, required for some of the duties. I worked with an SF ODA for a few months, and I think women could mentally hang with them, but physically they would fall way back (and to be fair, most men wouldn't make it either). Some jobs REQUIRE upper-body strength. There may be a rare woman or two who is into some serious weight training that might have the ability, so I do think women should have the right to try out for those jobs, but with no special considerations - they have to pass the exact same physical tests as the men.
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» RE: I was in the Army
Posted by: morph999
» RE: I was in the Army
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Are you fucking dense?
Posted by: jimidee
» morph999
Posted by: morticia
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Posted by: Femmy68 on May 25, 2009 1:59 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: These are 'Mericun men committing these crimes...
Posted by: jimidee
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Posted by: Femmy68 on May 25, 2009 2:05 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» If so
Posted by: suprmark
» RE: infuriated
Posted by: lwbaby
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Posted by: brianct on May 25, 2009 3:00 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Why are women so keen to go to war in Iraq? ARe rthey also killing iraqi women and children.
Have they also participated in raids on iraqi homes? have they fired on iraqi families in their vehicles?
This whole article is skewed.
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Posted by: brianct on May 25, 2009 3:15 PM
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And what do they think of their male counterparts doing so?
This question needs to be considered because it seems to be escaping peoples attention.
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Posted by: jimidee on May 25, 2009 3:49 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
who are at least a little red around the neck;
and who harbor all kinds of psychological inferiority complexes BEFORE they enlist;
and who have disrespected woman long before they enlisted, as exhibited by the way they have treated their girl friends, sisters, etc.;
what do you expect them to act like when they get in the lawless environment of a war zone?
Any woman who voluntarily subjects themselves to the company of this kind of man in this kind of situation is crazy. Hell, this kind of behavior exists in the military academies, where there is supposedly the cream of the crop...but they are really just cowboys like all the rest, except they have some book sense.
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Posted by: JDutty6 on May 25, 2009 7:05 PM
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RT
Privacy Center
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» Wanker Alert!
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
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Posted by: lwbaby on May 25, 2009 8:15 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I guess sexual harrassment is in the mind of the beholder and is pretty subjective when you come right down to it and if that is included in these studies it's like calling a ball a strike.
Rape is rape and is abhorrent, period but exists in all aspects of our society and is underreported there as well. My daughter has only been treated with the utmost respect by her peers (boot camp DIs notwithstanding). I'd like to hear more from female soldiers before taking this at face value.
Happy Memorial Day to all and especially those who have or are currently serving our wonderful Country.
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Posted by: LoveAlex59 on May 26, 2009 2:37 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Congress does not allow it!
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: Congress does not allow it!
Posted by: LoveAlex59
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Posted by: Scott24 on May 26, 2009 4:05 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Consider even the coed sports teams at the U.S. Air Force Academy (when that experiment was tried), with male-and-female teams playing against all-male teams. The all-male teams ALWAYS won, forcing a change in the US Air Force Academy's sports teams configurations to avoid this embarrassment . . . . Now, imagine that in war and not sports. A disaster in the making.
There is an unfortunate tendency in American society to glamorize women as being capable of doing anything and everything that a man can do. Well, that is pure propaganda. Women are second-rate soldiers - and this has been proven over millenia - because they do not have men's strength, stamina, ability to withstand pain, speed of complex reflexes, spatial abilities, and sheer aggressiveness in combat. The average 20-year-old woman has no more strength than the average 50-year-old man. Women are great with verbal skills because they think and act verbally, but they cannot comprehend that men deal with spatial objects, spatial movement, and abstract concepts in ways that are beyond the average woman. Apply that to combat and you will begin to understand that unless one is talking an enemy to death, it means men will be better in combat than women.
And, no, just because you have one woman in 10,000 who can do everything a man can do and maybe more (because perhaps she's really a genetic male phenotypically expressed as a female?), that you allow her or especially all women to fight in combat! Remember, it's not the individual soldier that matters as much as it is the combat UNIT. Introduce sex into a unit and you get lower unit morale and combat readiness - it's a fact of nature and one we cannot avoid. Oh, yeah, I can hear it now, from the women and male apologists: let MEN adapt and "shape up." Why should they? You want to reduce their aggressiveness and effectiveness just so a few second-rate women soldiers can play at being soldiers! What a joke. Let's see the U.S. military come up against a First-Rate military (not insurrectionists) in war and with women soldiers in the ranks we will get our asses kicked all the way back to Kansas. Guaranteed. And in your heart of hearts you all know this, so why pretend?
Read these books that set out the reality of women in combat and in the military at all: Kingsley Browne's CO-ED COMBAT and FLIRTING WITH DISASTER. These are just two books that document the problem and the mythology created by the establishment about women in the military.
Yes, there are rapes in the military but, remember, it works both ways with female soldiers using sex to make sure they are coddled in basic training and can and have terrorized drill instructors and others with false charges of sexual harassment! In civilian life, rape is the most OVER-reported and lied-about crime. Government figures themselves show that FORTY PERCENT of all rape charges are FALSE. Yes, FALSE. Compare that with the normal false reporting rate for all other crimes (on the order of 2%) and you get an idea of why women's rape charges are to be greatly distrusted. That's not to say that it doesn't happen and that it should not be severely punished when true, BUT these rape claims are highly suspect.
And, men, you are your own worst enemy. Those of you who think having women in the military and especially in combat is a great idea need to stop spouting such nonsense just so you can be liked and laid by women. Men in America have become such wusses! It's time to wake up & act before the next real war starts and thousands of MEN die on the battlefield altar of PC politics.
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Posted by: reelman on May 26, 2009 8:56 AM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I do not know a single female that I can't kill with my bare hands...do you?
How about a nice gutsy thread on how woman are treated like dogs by moslems?
Ohhhh, no guts for that...liberals are sooo gutless.
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» RE: ALITY
Posted by: theblackgeorgecarlin
» RE: ALITY
Posted by: Starfall Deception
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 26, 2009 2:47 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: Alenna on May 26, 2009 4:09 PM
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Women are better at language skills - It's a scientific fact. I remember an immersion language training course that had to be modified (made easier) because 2 men were too "weak" and slow to understand what was being said. Ruined the class for the rest of us. Maybe men should be "banned" from becoming linguists in the military, because they are weaker than women are. Just a thought.
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 26, 2009 4:59 PM
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Posted by: lyta on May 27, 2009 11:05 AM
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Posted by: WyrdSister on May 27, 2009 11:23 AM
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Posted by: Andrew_S on May 27, 2009 6:15 PM
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