Hey jerk, you LOST. No wonder you don't like Dr. Dean, whose fifty state strategy was largely responsible for the death knell for your miserable party. I am glad I do not live in an area where this jerk is on the air (we have plenty of our own). Too bad they stopped water boarding him before he expired. Now it is Hannity's turn, followed by old fart Cheney.

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has to admit he was wrong ... will wonders ever cease? I cannot stomach the binary thinking of these people.

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!

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In Rhode Island, Rod Driver wants to donate $100/second for Bush, Cheney and Condi Rice to try it.

Someone want to take up a collection to get those donations up?

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So now what? We wait for every last moron out there to volunteer to be water boarded until we settle this debate? Is this even debatable issue? The problem is not with the people who say it’s not a torture, everyone with half a brain knows that it is, it is with the mindset that says: “so what if it is?”.

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Typical loud mouthed right wing coward. I would like to see Limbaugh and OReilly give it a try. They would whine like little babies . Or better yet say nothing and die, to save face.

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It should be mandatory for world leaders to be waterboarded....so they wil know a little about that they endorse for others!

Wil Obama choose to be waterboarded? Will Bibi?

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All writers score their points here.
I know cops who personally have allowed themselves to be "tazed_ in "order to know what it's like."
Problem is that we all have a unique nervous system, different pain thresholds, different types of muscles, and different hearts. When tazed, some die, some live.
By the way, this reported "waterboarding" scenario is fake for the reason I previously stated. As Humphrey Bogart once said in a noir film, "Torture is only effective if it carries the threat of death."
So far this guy and Hitchens operated with a "safety net"/kill-switch.
And if slow-motion _drowning_--which the euphemistically named "waterboarding" is--isn't torture, nothing is. After 3 to 5 minutes with _water in the lungs_, the typical person either drowns or goes into cardiac seizure. Give me a break! People have died under "waterboarding."
That this "debate" persists and continues to monopolize our national discourse says something about the perverse geniuses who framed this particular "issue!"

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I suggest anyone who wants to claim waterboarding is not torture should have the opportunity to prove themselves right. Sean Hannity????

Now, let's acknowledge that ordering this technique be used on prisoners is a violation of US and international law. And, what should happen to those who violate the law? That's right, children, they should be waterbo--... I mean, prosecuted.

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This wus couldn't hang out, when prisoners fighting for their lives were waterboarded up to 183 time or more -- 2 hours at a time. There wasn't even a 1/2 gallon of water poured down the nose of this dude and he caved and it was suppose to be a gallon.

All of the waterboarding torturers should be in jail waiting trial, not running around free, and speaking on television trying to make torture legal.

Torture is illegal and must stay illegal. Yoo, Bybee and Gonzales changing the law to be able to torture puts our country back in medieval times, which is more conservatively EXTREME than our national and international laws allow, and unless our government plans on taking our country back to Medieval times, torture should be admitted, stopped and the torturers punished. Obama has stated that waterboarding is torture, but apparently the right-wing media is holding out for it to be a cake walk.

Torture is sick and the people who torture are sick, probably pulled the legs off little insects when they were young for fun. These type of people need psychiatric help, not be leading the country.

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Those of us who live in Chicago know this buffoon very well. Before he became the Poor Man's O'Really, he used to make prank phone calls to nursing homes and torment dementia patients on the air. He does nothing that isn't self serving. This was another cheap Mancow publicity stunt. It has always taken him 5 years to figure out what everyone else already knew.
He's the Paris Hilton of local radio-a brainless attention whore.

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I'm from Chicago, but haven't listened to Mancow since I was in Junior High. I don't remember, was he conservative or not?

Chitown for Life

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Now we need to devise an experiment to test how much it sucks to live under the Israeli terror campaign in Gaza. Guess that's the only way these idiot republicans figure anything out. Different learning styles I guess.

dboy

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There's simply nothing left to say except that they were dead wrong on this issue.

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Why are so many conservatives so character defective as to not see the obvious on so many issues? Waterboarding is the perfect illustration. Anyone with normal reasoning abilities after hearing a description of the process, knows it for what it is. Torture. These Cons who otherwise have the intelligence to string together words to make sentences, who can, in some cases, even do high level mathematics, constantly mouth off about things regardless of reasoning just because they want to believe it. It is no coincidence that so many of these types are "religious". The best explanation I have found is in the description for Narcissistic Personality Disorder: Narcissistic personality disorder (NPD) is a personality disorder defined by the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders, the diagnostic classification system used in the United States, as "a pervasive pattern of grandiosity, need for admiration, and a lack of empathy."
Also, notice what was not said in regards to Muller's backfiring demonstration: he new it would end as soon as he wanted it to-in this case a pathetic few seconds. The detainee (90+% as we now know have had nothing to do with terrorism) does not know if he will be killed, if his family is safe, and what other forms of torture await him. It is also a safe bet that he will be subjected to demoralizing psycological torture as well. The lack of this obvious consideration in the media generally suggests that the NPD is endemic in the main stream media and among our politicians.

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Bush always maintained that "We do not torture."
Bush should therefore volunteer to be waterboarded because he said it's not torture.

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...and have heard this guy spew his crap for many years. Although not quite as bad as hannity or limbaugh, he is an absolute dickhead...your typical shock jock. I am surprised that he would admit that it was torture. It is unfortunate that it took a stunt like that for him to realize it!!!

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If you call this torture you are fucking idiots. If you want to know the communist torture it was just like Nazi torture putting the water hose in your ass and coming everything in your mouth and your lungs until dead, put you in the dark room and start hitting you so hard that you don't know where is coming from. Romania had this kind of torture. On interrogations, beating you until you passed out. You went too far than I can't imagine You are very sick because you are not the real democrats you are the wolfs in the sheep skin Why you don't even protest about Taser guns when used against Innocent people and even killing them? None of mine or your business, right? When you will wake up, remember, it will be too late and I think you deserve to have something like this to stay in prison for 15 yrs under false accusation of being Counter Revolutionar. Go to Russia and get more educated about torture

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Torturing for the declared purpose of extracting 'information' is the worst form of revenge because it is taken from helpless and mostly innocent victims who have little or no 'information'of value for the avenger in the first place. Torturing does not serve any purpose and the 'torturers' know this, in advance.Then, why torture? Count Sade is not around to answer this question but Dick Cheney, Rumsfeld and Wolfowitz are.

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After waterboarding right-wing radio host Mancow, they should have tried some of the other torture techniques on him, including those that murdered prisoners at Gitmo and at other extreme rendition camps.

Hell, if Mancow didn't make it, we'd be less one right-wing radio host. No biggie.

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Personally I respect anyone who admits they were wrong. And unlike Rush, Hannity and others, the man at least put his money where his mouth was and tried it thinking it wouldn't be that bad and then when it was, he was honest.

~Beth~

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I am not familiar with Mancow and it's unfortunate that it took this to change his opinion about waterboarding but I have to give him some credit for putting his money where his mouth is, unlike most of his colleagues, and being man enough to own up to the truth when all was said and done. The people posting on this board lamenting his survival of this event are no better than their counterparts on the right. It is simply appalling what we are becoming as a society with so little tolerance for those with alternative viewpoints.

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And some of those hardline politicians too --that is when they aren't too busy robbing the taxpayers on behalf of their cronies...

And maybe they need to be UNEMPLOYED with the rest of us so they will know what it is like TO LIVE IN FEAR!

LIVING IN AN UNEMPLOYMENT HELL NOT KNOWING WHEN YOU WILL SEE YOUR NEXT PAYCHECK OR OF YOU WILL EVER WORK AGAIN IS TORTURE TOO!

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Let's face it, if a Democratic President had been caught waterboarding, there would have been no phony debate about whether torture is torture.

The prosecutions would have begun immediately.

Da Banksta

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Appparently notwithstanding Christopher Hitchens and now Erich Muller's experiences, Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld and Limbaugh( not to mention the editorial page writer of the Wall Street Journal, which has frequently defended the practise and other "enhanced interrogation techniques") STILL deny that waterboarding is torture. I have a proposal for these gentlemen-why not undergo waterboarding in public just to show how harmless it is! Of course, I'm NOT holding my breath expecting them to agree!

Terry

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It's amazing that this is still a question. Just goes to show how hard to kill some peoples' beliefs in the credibility of our political leaders (with enough help from the mainstream media, of course)can be. This SHOULD be a lesson to liberals and conservatives alike.(Of course, it won't be because in the main, people believe what they WANT to believe.) Bush/Cheney were exalted in our media SO constantly and with such vigor, and FOR SO LONG DESPITE the evidence, that EVEN NOW, there are people who are willing to believe what they said. But, to my knowledge, neither one of THEM has stepped up to the plate and volunteered to put their money where their mouths continue to be, and take the "waterboard test" themselves! They KNOW it
is torture, knew it when they authorized its use, and Mr. Obama knows it too, as did many of the Democrats who were in power at the time it was authorized. Now "Mancow" knows it. NEXT??!!?

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...now if only the chicken-hawk Repuke party members/cheerleaders, and/or cowards in congress like Pelosi, would only sign up for several tours of duty in Iraq, do without heathcare, etc. then, maybe, things could REALLY start changing.

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Waterboarding = Torture? Whoda Thunk it? The former VP certainly didn’t – At least Mancow had the guts to try it himself instead of sitting in the little chair behind the desk in the oval office (fumbling with his beads in the hope of getting into the big chair someday). But most anyone who ever served in the military knows that torture is illegal – and most, if not all, codes of conduct prohibit lying in the military academies. To paraphrase another former VP. It is “An inconvenient Truth” that the US was born of just such actions – terrorism that it is. For example in the time of the Revolution war consisted of marching opposing forces out into a field and taking target practice against your adversaries. But the colonials were terrorists and cowards in that they used the magnificent Oak trees and rock walls of New England and the rest of the East coast as shields to hide behind and functionally murder the Brits who were still stupid to believe that they wer fighting a regular enemy.

As the years progressed and the US gained stature among nations it to started to cry “Foul” when others used “innovative techniques” to carry on their diplomatic efforts.But there are other considerations too. For openers, there is a distinction made between civilians and military personnel in all conflicts. The military has certain “rights” if captured and the civilians are to be avoided if possible and cared for if an incident occurs. There are exceptions. Persons performing military duties but dressed as civilians are considered “Spies’ and aer subject to execution if caught.

The key here being “Military duties.” In Viet Nam the US faced an enemy with distinctly different ideas on warfare. They routinely used children, even babies, as weapons. But then again, if you can’t conceive of “using an airplane as a weapon…. A missle” it is highly unlikely you could think of using a baby. When preparing for combat duty in VietNam you were taught not to touch anything you didn’t put there yourself. That was because everything was a booby trap. The US Military publishes manuals in IEDs. The other sie uses them. Why/ because they work. As usual the US supplies both sides in the conflict.
In gulf I ther was a CNN news team in civilian clothes sending live Bomb Damage Assessments back to the US military live and in color. An Iraqi colonel told them to shut down. He should have shot them on the spot. They were spies – clean and simple. But he didn’t and Iraq lost that war. The US championed the “Freedom” fighters in Afghanistan until Russia pulled out. Then they discovered what they had created;the Taliban. You reap what you sow.
I think an appropriate use for waterboarding – especially by the US military is the application during congressional hearings on things like White Water and the 911 commission. Might have found out some really interesting things there too. But that can never happen. Collegiality prevails and the US congress – to the last man or woman or whatever has one thought – getting to the Big chair mentioned earlier. It is never going to change. As a sitting member of congress published some time ago – “Democracy is NOT freedom.” That it true. Another name for Democracy is “Mob Rule.” In the US the Mob is organized crime. The two largest gangs are not in New York and New Jersey. They are in the Senate and House and are called Demopulbicans and Republicrats.Dump them both, dump the Fed and get back to a gold standard for your money. While you can, if you still can.

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alternet should break the silence ... investigate 9/11

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I was always convinced that waterboarding was torture, but now I'm kind of wondering. Now that this lying sack of crap says it's torture, I'm having some doubts.

Why is it that when one of these phoney chickenhawk motherfu**ers finally faces the truth, it somehow means more in people's minds. Honest, intelligent people have been saying for years that this is torture, and somehow that's just not believable. But pour water up the nose of one of these freakoid butt nuggets and have him scream torture and suddenly "I guess it is after all".

And remember, this is just one of many "techniques" being used that are torture. In my opinion, way too much attention is being paid to this one act, which in truth is probably one of the less disgusting things being done. My concern is, too much emphasis is being placed on "waterboarding", as though it's the only, or most horrific, technique being used. If we come out on the other end of this discussion with waterboarding being the only form of torture being specifically prohibited, we will have lost a great deal and severely compromised our moral imperative (if we in fact ever truly had one).

We need to emphasize that all torture is wrong and we need to stop all of it, not just waterboarding.

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that it works that fast!

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And he proved it lasting six or seven seconds before throwing in the towel (toy cow.)

But the one thing he showed is that he has more guts than Sean "Waterboard Me for Charity! For the Troops!" Hannity.

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WEll, at least he was honest about it.

Why, though, are we now having this debate in the first place when this has been considered torture by people who have done it to others or have had it done to them for literally centuries????

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Unfortunately, I don't doubt that there will be people on the right who will say, like the interviewer insinuated, that it wasn't the procedure in itself, but that it "brought back terrible childhood memories" of when this guy almost drowned. They are always scrambling for an excuse, no matter how flimsy it may be, to cling to, rather than admit the truth: Waterboarding is torture.

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Bush Bush Bush, Rice Rice Rice, Rumsfeld Rumsfeld Rumsfeld, lets not for get Gonzalas Gonzalas Gonzalas - invite them all to the party - I have a whole pool full of water I will donate to the cause!

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When a right-wing dupe finds out they've been lied to about one thing, why don't they start questioning all the other lies they've been told?

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Whatever idiocy he may be capable of or has done in the past as a Right Wing pundit, this time at least he stood up, got dunked, flipped out after 6 seconds and called Water Boarding what it is. TORTURE.
Good Show, Old Bean!
Good Show, indeed!

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Here are three of our best known scoundrels who should get a good dose of waterboarding:

Sean Hannutsy, cowardly buffoon at Fox; Chickenhawk Cheney; and Karl Rove, a miserable wretch, who. like Hannutsy, enjoys the adoration of ignorant rednecks and pathetic Dupes across the Country but centered in the dusty outbacks of relentless boredom, Bibleland.

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To those say at least he's being honest and admitted his mistake.
He had no choice he would have no credibility at all if he just said that it wasn't torture. He put himself into this position. It was like getting caught with his pants down. I don't think that should be considered honesty but an admission of his own stupidity. Stupid for not realizing that waterboarding is torture and even more stupid by volunteering for it.
Now if only more of these real men would do the same, but that isn't going to happen because the smarter ones don't want to actually admit they are that stupid.
xvet

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should each be waterboarded for one minute--after Dick Cheney experiences two minutes without given a cow to throw up--they are the ones responsible for the hundreds of people waterboarded by the CIA and USA military--and why the USA is now the most hated nation on this planet.

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Torture, the new porno of the twenty first century.
Ok, so a loudmouthed rightwingerdinger admits that waterboarding IS torture. Great.
What about hot/cold, loud shit music 24/7, holding "stress" positions for hours/weeks, sleep deprivation on end, solitary confinement for years???
Still willing to call this shit "enhanced" interrogation?
What has been done to the people in Guantanamo and Abu and other infamous centers of torture has created a class of batshit crazy mentally effed up humans; no wonder they can not be released. Thanks Mr Cheney et all for creating 'terrorists'!

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About 15-20 years ago Erich came to Chicago where I live and was on the air for quite some time the first time.

He was new and fresh, yet slowly but surely, he progressively became an absolute dick. He regularly verbally abused his co-workers on the air and finally began talking about his Bible and his gun. That's when I finally never listened to him ever again. I was done with Mancow.

There is a sick fascination conservatives have with hurting others emotionally, vandalizing intellectual honesty, and being in absolute love with physical abuse. This is easily seen in Hannity, Mancow, Limbaugh, evangelical preachers, Bush, Cheney. All of them have publicly upheld those three attributes (and more).

They're mentally deficient people. Mancow might be semi-famous, but he's still a dick. And looky here. Now that he's gotten a taste of his own medicine he figured out what's real and what's a fantasy in his head.

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MANCOW???? MORE LIKE BULLS--T.

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As Olberman put it Mancow put his money where his mouth is .

He showed a lot more backbone than most right wing radio hosts and thats worth something. He may be wrong on issues (I don't listen to his show) but at least he is a real man

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Concerning the new photos and video that Obama is not releasing...

From CBS News (2004 report):

In 2004, Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld . . . warned that videos and photos yet to come could further inflame worldwide outrage...

Also in 2004, Sen. Lindsey Graham, R-S.C., told reporters, "The American public needs to understand we're talking about rape and murder here. We're not just talking about giving people a humiliating experience."

The government is not ONLY withholding images of torture. It is ALSO withholding images of rape and murder, including - apparently - the sodomy of boys.

Erich "Mancow" Muller....time to spread your cheeks, the REAL US Torture Prison Experience has only just begun.

Looks like some of our "returning heroes" had poo on their penises. Such bravery.

dboy

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How many times now has Cheney Confessed to ordering torture? Admitted he has No Remorse (No regrets)? Usurped the Power of the Presidency (W ONLY "Basically" Knew?)
You don't need no stinkin' waterboard- just a Friendly cohort and a cable news channel video Camera- Cheney is Singing like a Mockingbird!
Hell Have more FOX mouthpieces interview him daily- He'll boast (confess) to who he had Whacked too."You're Right Sean, Bhuoto was a bitch and would have screwed up Our agenda - so we had her assasinated.Kept the others in line don't ya think? Hell the War Corps are making money hand over fist now that we're in Pakistan too. Halliburton has thanked me a Billion times over" wink wink.
Come on even a know nothing couch potato knows if you offer 'sympathy'. 'empathy' or 'understanding' to their plight- people love to spill their guts. Even better if they are offered the opportunity to broadcast their Manifestos. I'm not sure who's better at confessing their atrocities Cheney or Bin Laden-A 'Pulpit' is the archilles heel of any Meglomaniac.
Keep Talking DICK...'Anything You Say CAN & WILL be held against you in a Court of Law'- Roll Tape.

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He wasn't waterboarded because he wasn't shackled and he was able to call an end to his so-called waterboarding whenever he chose. That is NOT the same waterboarding scenario the United States of America committed against prisoners it held without charges. Shackle him and waterboard him until for the same duration that torturing son-of-a-bitch Dick "I had other priorities" Cheney did to the prisoners held under the USA's further anti-human rights policy of "indefinite detention".

BTW, the same policy of indefinite detention our new president, Barack Obushma, refuses to end.

Don't kid yourselves, Obama is nothing more than Bush-light. Anyone, especially the president, who has knowledge of criminal activity and fails in their duty to investigate and prosecute it becomes an accomplice in that criminal activity. Period.

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This is not a partisan issue, if we are a nation of laws. While CIA underlings are not at issue for following orders, those who crafted any that are in fact against the laws of the United States, cannot be just given a wink & nod -- found a cool site; Balkingpoints ; incredible satellite view of earth

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He got it once.
Imagine what it is like for those who know they will face it several times a day every day, with no hope that it will ever end. I suppose they end up hoping for the lesser tortures to happen now and then as some comfort. If it works, why is it done to one person over 100 times? What more could they possibly give, but maybe pleasure to the sadists doing it.

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From here on out, results will increasingly trump the sensation of Obama's high-toned lectures every time.

Especially if they are as dreary as last Thursday's, which was so disingenuous and self-reverential as to be one of the low moments of his presidency. Besides not being able to clearly lay out his plan for Guantanamo detainees, Obama never mentioned what will happen to others we capture in Iraq and Afghanistan. Perhaps we will take no more prisoners?

Meanwhile, the occasion showed that Cheney, the darkest of dark horses, is emerging as a fact checker in exile. With Democrats holding all Washington power, the ex-veep's willingness to challenge Obama's narrative of the war on terror is a poor substitute for an institutional check-and-balance, but it's all we have.

In that sense, Cheney's ability to outduel Obama could mark a turning point in the debate on this and other critical issues. His TKO over the President recalls the three most important things in real estate: Location, location, location.

The key to Cheney's powerful performance: Facts, facts, facts.

MICHAEL GOODWIN article

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I remember reading somewhere that the good Victorian housewife should never ask her maid to do anything that she (the GVH) could not do better herself. Great idea. Let's say that those of the Cheneyesque persuasion all undergo what they recommend for others. First. And I want to put in a special request that Donald Rumsfeld serve an undisclosed number of open-ended deployments in a combat zone.

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But they will be, soon...
When they do, they'll discover he's so full of "facts", his eye's will be a dark, excremental BROWN. This unabashed attempt to appear factual and unrepentant is one of his last chances to do so before his criminal ass is dragged before a tribunal or arrested and extradited by a foreign power for crimes against humanity.
The Right Wing Media Machine is coming apart as the weasels begin scrambling and preparing statements driven by the instinct for self preservation.

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Mancow is an idiot. Too bad they couldn't have set him on fire instead of pouring some water on his bean.

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Mancow is a libertarian, which is republican undercover. No one has to do what he did in order to prove to me that water up the nose is torture. This is just a stunt. He already new it was torture. He just wanted publicity. Libertarians just lick up the scum that falls off the neocons.

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WELL....?
Come on, you big mouth, blow hard, POS. 6 seconds is all you have to beat,
you mental case! Let Olbermann give his money to charity, loser.
Ahhh...
I didn't think so.

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