COMMENTS: 116
Prosecute This: Torture Was Used to Try to Link Saddam with 9/11
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When I testified last year before the House Judiciary Committee’s Subcommittee on the Constitution, Civil Rights, and Civil Liberties about Bush interrogation policies, Congressman Trent Franks (R-Ariz) stated that former CIA Director Michael Hayden had confirmed that the Bush administration only waterboarded Khalid Sheikh Mohammed, Abu Zubaydah, and Abd al-Rahim al-Nashirit for one minute each. I told Franks that I didn’t believe that. Sure enough, one of the newly released torture memos reveals that Mohammed was waterboarded 183 times and Zubaydah was waterboarded 83 times. One of Stephen Bradbury’s 2005 memos asserted that “enhanced techniques” on Zubaydah yielded the identification of Mohammed and an alleged radioactive bomb plot by Jose Padilla. But FBI supervisory special agent Ali Soufan, who interrogated Zubaydah from March to June 2002, wrote in the New York Times that Zubaydah produced that information under traditional interrogation methods, before the harsh techniques were ever used.
Why, then, the relentless waterboarding of these two men? It turns out that high Bush officials put heavy pressure on Pentagon interrogators to get Mohammed and Zubaydah to reveal a link between Saddam Hussein and the 9/11 hijackers, in order to justify Bush’s illegal and unnecessary invasion of Iraq in 2003 according to the newly released report of the Senate Armed Services Committee. That link was never established.
President Obama released the four memos in response to a Freedom of Information Act request by the ACLU. They describe unimaginably brutal techniques and provide "legal" justification for clearly illegal acts of torture and cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment. In the face of monumental pressure from the CIA to keep them secret, Obama demonstrated great courage in deciding to make the grotesque memos public. At the same time, however, in an attempt to pacify the intelligence establishment, Obama said, "it is our intention to assure those who carried out their duties relying in good faith upon legal advice from the Department of Justice that they will not be subject to prosecution.
"In startlingly clinical and dispassionate terms, the authors of the newly-released torture memos describe and then rationalize why the devastating techniques the CIA sought to employ on human beings do not violate the Torture Statute (18 U.S.C. sec. 2340).
The memos justify 10 techniques, including banging heads into walls 30 times in a row, prolonged nudity, repeated slapping, dietary manipulation, and dousing with cold water as low as 41 degrees. They allow shackling in a standing position for 180 hours, sleep deprivation for 11 days, confinement of people in small dark boxes with insects for hours, and waterboarding to create the perception they are drowning. Moreover, the memos permit many of these techniques to be used in combination for a 30-day period. They find that none of these techniques constitute torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment.
Waterboarding, admittedly the most serious of the methods, is designed, according to Jay Bybee, to induce the perception of "suffocation and incipient panic, i.e. the perception of drowning." But although Bybee finds that "the use of the waterboard constitutes a threat of imminent death," he accepts the CIA's claim that it does "not anticipate that any prolonged mental harm would result from the use of the waterboard." One of Bradbury’s memos requires that a physician be on duty during waterboarding to perform a tracheotomy in case the victim doesn't recover after being returned to an upright position.
As psychologist Jeffrey Kaye points out, the CIA and the Justice Department "ignored a wealth of other published information" that indicates dissociative symptoms, changes greater than those in patients undergoing heart surgery, and drops in testosterone to castration levels after acute stress associated with techniques that the memos sanction.
The Torture Statute punishes conduct, or conspiracy to engage in conduct, specifically intended to inflict severe physical or mental pain or suffering. "Severe mental pain or suffering" means the prolonged mental harm caused by or resulting from either the intentional infliction or threatened infliction of severe physical pain or suffering, or from the threat of imminent death.
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Posted by: DrBrian on May 2, 2009 12:49 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Writ of Mandamus
Posted by: edgar_michel
» RE: Writ of Mandamus
Posted by: DrBrian
Comments are closed-
Posted by: mmckinl on May 2, 2009 1:34 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"He is wrong. There is more to gain from upholding the rule of law. It will make future leaders think twice before they authorize the cruel, illegal treatment of other human beings."
~~~
This is exactly right, everybody knows it ... and it is not just a question of law, but of morality.
Then there are his positions on Wall Street Banks and Spying on Americans ... Obama is capitulating to the worst elements of our political structure at the expense of America's people and our future ... it will result in a legacy of failure ... politically, socially and economically ...
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» RE: Obama is building a legacy of failure ...
Posted by: peskyfly1
» RE: Obama is building a legacy of failure ...
Posted by: mmckinl
» RE: Obama is building a legacy of failure ...
Posted by: Vik
Comments are closed-
Posted by: pfgetty on May 2, 2009 2:02 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Then why is it, Marjorie Cohn, that you don't seem willing to see all the evidence, really glaring and obvious evidence, that Bush and the Neocons conspired to bring us 9/11, so that we would have a "New Pearl Harbor" as the excuse to "remake the Middle East", as they explained in their PNAC papers?
If you already know how conniving and brutal Bush/Cheyney was, and you know their goals, and I'm sure you've heard the many contradictions to the official story of 9/11, what on earth keeps you from making THOSE links?
Or do you know the reality of 9/11, but are not allowed to tell? Or is it that you just understand that presenting this material would sideline you from the media, even the alternative media like Alternet, because THEY have been pressured or threatened never to show this evidence?
Marjorie, it has been seven and a half years since 9/11, and no really adequate explanations in Alternet or any other alternative media showing the copious evidence that the official 9/11 story is a lie. Some of the evidence even PROVES that there has been a major coverup and complicity of our government. Yet you refuse, or are threatened not to, present any of this material.
You explain the links that show Bush tortured to get phoney admissions of guilt to present to America that an Iraq invasion was necessary.........you know how conniving these people are, but you have decided not to present much clearer evidence that they are lying about 9/11... big time.
How about at least looking at the latest paper by distinguished scientists Steven Jones and Kevin Ryan that proves that controlled demolition was used in the collapse of all three WTC buildings? The facts and conclusions of the paper, which has recently appeared in a peer reviewed journal, are irrefutable. But it has been COMPLETELY ignored in the press.
Would you, Marjorie, love to be the first one to break what may be the most important story of all time? It would change the world!
It would end the illegal wars and occupations and the trashing of our Constitution.
You would be the new Daniel Ellsberg!
This is the equivalent to the stain on Monica Lewinsky's dress.
But you all.........all of you journalists....don't seem to have the courage or will to do the right thing, the just thing, the thing that would finally bring justice and respect for the rule of order and truth in America.
So play your games about Bush and torture. I don't think Cheyney or Bush or Condi are very worried. They know all of it will bog down in legal issues, and also that many Americans will still feel that Bush was only acting to keep us safe from more attacks like 9/11. It is a waste of time and effort until you get to the mother of all crimes, 9/11.
Do the right thing and change the world! Please, Marjorie. Our kids and grandkids are counting on it.
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» Here is some information on that paper, Marjorie.......
Posted by: pfgetty
» Still lying about that "peer reviewed" paper, PFGetty?
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Typical lying by our resident troll with an agenda.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Here, GuitarBill....some information on your editor, Pileni, theory.
Posted by: pfgetty
» More about Pileni........and update. Wow, she has some real baggage!
Posted by: pfgetty
» Here is the rest of the update on Pileni...opening a real can of worms
Posted by: pfgetty
» Hurry! Hurry! Change the SUBJECT, NOW!
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Childish name calling isn't getting you anywhere. It is because she lied.
Posted by: pfgetty
» She didn't lie about Jones et al. doing an end run around her
Posted by: brunowe
» OK here it is part one
Posted by: pfgetty
» Part 2
Posted by: pfgetty
» Quoting another conspiranoid isn't proof
Posted by: brunowe
» So you didn't find it, and so it must not be. Here it is.
Posted by: pfgetty
» And, although I've smoked you, this stuff doesn't matter anyway!
Posted by: pfgetty
» You did nothing of the kind
Posted by: brunowe
» Unfortunately brunowe, science requires peer review, and you are trying to deny this process.
Posted by: channing
» No, the paper is NOT a peer review of NIST.
Posted by: pfgetty
» I didn't say the paper was a peer review of NIST.
Posted by: channing
» RE: Formatting revision due to log-in again; I didn't say the paper was a peer review of NIST
Posted by: channing
» brunowe - now you're sounding like a "conspiracy theorist"
Posted by: LeftWright
» Not at all
Posted by: brunowe
» Are we seeing any attempt to counter the paper on its merits?
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Pileni appears to be lying about her expertise in her resignation statements
Posted by: channing
» Guitar Bill, lying again
Posted by: Alan8
» AMEN TO THAT!
Posted by: ScoobyDoobyDoo
» Great comment ScoobyDoobyDoo. How can we not investigate.
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: The Godfathers of the MIC deserve Extradiction
Posted by: Purple Girl
» Absolutely.........this trio is the modern counterpart of the Nazis
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Great Work, Marjorie! NOW LINK 9/11 TO THE BUSH AND THE NEOCONS!
Posted by: surfreality
» No, surfreality, you are wrong.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Yes, 911 "truth"! And PFGetty can "prove it" with deceptively edited videos.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» No GB, good try at confusion, but........
Posted by: pfgetty
» Yes, and for every one of 118 lies, there are hundreds of people who contradict them
Posted by: GuitarBill
» That was a lot of nothing, GB. Your name calling and anger are giving you away.
Posted by: pfgetty
» I stand by my statement, PFConspiranoid
Posted by: GuitarBill
» you can stand by your statement until the sun burns out.......it won't make it true
Posted by: pfgetty
» You're spamming AlterNet with 911 "truth" propaganda.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» "Prosecute This: Torture Was Used to Try to Link Saddam with 9/11"
Posted by: LeftWright
» That shows your ignorance of the 9/11 truth movement.
Posted by: pfgetty
» Steven Jones is "peer reviewed"? Perhaps in your alternate universe, PFGetty.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» I refer you all to the comments made above about editor Pileni
Posted by: pfgetty
» Dr Foo: "Socrates, my old friend, what is torture?"
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Let me be the first to invite you to ignore my posts
Posted by: pfgetty
» You are lying again
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Do you work for Alternet??
Posted by: edgar_michel
» Good question, but my take is...........
Posted by: pfgetty
» Your take is paranoid nonsense
Posted by: brunowe
» It is information that I am presenting You don't even make sense now.
Posted by: pfgetty
» It isn't information
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: If you had read the paper you'd realize nano-thermitic compounds don't appear in apartments
Posted by: channing
» Actually Edgar, I think you have a point: here's why..
Posted by: pfgetty
» That's the loopiest thing I've ever heard
Posted by: brunowe
» RE: That's the loopiest thing I've ever heard
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: You are lying again
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» I think that is all well thought out BS
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: I think that is all well thought out BS
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» Blah blah blah..........you aren't fooling me a bit. METHINKS THOU PROTESTS TOO MUCH!
Posted by: pfgetty
» Reader in Japan - What "major 9/11 site" did you look at?
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: eader in Japan - What "major 9/11 site" did you look at?
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» If you have an open mind, look at this:
Posted by: LeftWright
» But for some the truth is dangerous
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: If you have an open mind, look at this:
Posted by: Reader in Japan
» The worst thing that could happen to a reader in Japan is.......
Posted by: pfgetty
» 911! 911! FEAR! [spit, rant, slobber, slobber] Terror! 911! FEAR1 911! Terrorist! 911!
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Takes a lot of work, GB, to spew inane insults and silly names....it isn't working
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: Takes a lot of work, GB, to spew inane insults and silly names....it isn't working
Posted by: brunowe
» normal people don't get so vicious about wanting more information about an event
Posted by: pfgetty
» RE: I Have Seen This Exact Post From GuitarBill Before
Posted by: edgar_michel
» The trolls are all the same person or from that same group
Posted by: pfgetty
» Troll? Tell us about it, PFConspiranoid, because you're the biggest troll on this board.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» No, that is silly, and here is why I am not a troll
Posted by: pfgetty
» BS. Turning every issue is 911 "truth" is proof positive that you're a troll.
Posted by: GuitarBill
» Reading that was wasted energy
Posted by: pfgetty
» First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you and then you win.
Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: Great Work, Marjorie! NOW LINK 9/11 TO THE BUSH AND THE NEOCONS!
Posted by: buschthebearrefreshing
» The Open Chemical Physics Journal
Posted by: LeftWright
» The articles were completely inadequate
Posted by: pfgetty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: atomic on May 2, 2009 2:14 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our country is run by a shadow elite that call the shots ... beginning with the Federal Reserve Bankers this country is in the grips of a massive criminal enterprise which is set up to keep the working class in debt and funnel power and money to the very few. They ... the ruling class that is are killing us ... our children, you and me.
Not only do they send us to wars to get killed based on lies they deny health care and push drugs on us for profit. It's a nightmare I don't think many can comprehend ... we all want to believe the dream and raise our children in the sun with the smell of fresh cut grass and water sprinklers.
We won't wake up ... people never do until many years after when it's not only too late it's history ... they know this ...
Torture is only possible because we no longer have a Republic that is grounded in the Constitution. That is our governing document and it is no longer given any regard at all. If we were the United States of America ... the Bush people would be in trial ... the Federal Reserve would not print our money and then charge us interest and we would not have invaded a country that did not attack us.
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» All true. But how do you get the bastards? Expose the lies of 9/11.
Posted by: pfgetty
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Posted by: Purple Girl on May 2, 2009 5:30 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Are 4000+ American Lives Worth the Oil Contracts gained?Worth the profits made on No bid military Contracts?
Repugs are confessing constantly to what their real goals were, by using the word 'Value'. Of course torture provided 'Valueable' information- it lined the pockets of the War Profitteers and the Oil Corps.
Their agenda did not save American Lives- it sacrificed them.The Blood of every serviceperson and Iraqi civilian who was killed or maimed in Iraq is on their hands. The Repugs have proven they Value Oil, more than Life.
Virtues and Ethics have no tangible cash Value, so they disgarded them.To prove it is not what we merely 'value' that guides our country, but what virtues and ethics we revere, We must Extradict those who have brought such Steadfast standards in to question.
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» RE: That's Right, That's the Key
Posted by: edgar_michel
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Posted by: greenferret on May 2, 2009 5:56 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Join GreenChange.org in calling on Attorney General Holder to appoint a special prosecutor to investigate whether Bush administration officials violated laws prohibiting torture.
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Posted by: otto on May 2, 2009 6:04 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Yes, wouldn't she do a great job with exposing the truth of 9/11?
Posted by: pfgetty
Comments are closed-
Posted by: darkmark on May 2, 2009 7:31 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: susanhathaway on May 2, 2009 8:11 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I knew when I voted for Obama that he was not a liberal or a progressive, but it continues to surprise and disgust me every time he promises to continue one more of Dubya's illegal policies.
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» RE: Bush 44
Posted by: maxaron
» RE: Bush 44
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
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Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on May 2, 2009 8:20 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: Thanks alot Obama for being a stupid coward and allowing Dubya's gang to go "scot free" !
Posted by: context
» RE: Thanks alot Obama for being a stupid coward and allowing Dubya's gang to go "scot free" !
Posted by: John More
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Posted by: linecrosser on May 2, 2009 8:45 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: CarlaWaters on May 2, 2009 9:40 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: willymack on May 2, 2009 12:16 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: It didn't Begin With Prescott
Posted by: edgar_michel
» Guilt?
Posted by: robert.noll
Comments are closed-
Posted by: HipBone on May 2, 2009 1:01 PM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Until the sacred cow called national security is allowed to operation with indiscretion there will continue to be violations of international law
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» I say YES to impeaching Obama at this point.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
» RE: I say YES to impeaching Obama at this point.
Posted by: CarlaWaters
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Posted by: Ranjit Kumar on May 2, 2009 1:39 PM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent on May 2, 2009 3:11 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Officials said the first public moves could come as soon as next week, perhaps in filings to military judges at the United States naval base at Guantánamo Bay, Cuba, outlining an administration plan to amend the Bush administration’s system to provide more legal protections for terrorism suspects.
Continuing the military commissions in any form would probably prompt sharp criticism from human rights groups as well as some of Mr. Obama’s political allies because the troubled system became an emblem of the effort to use Guantánamo to avoid the American legal system.
Officials who work on the Guantánamo issue say administration lawyers have become concerned that they would face significant obstacles to trying some terrorism suspects in federal courts. Judges might make it difficult to prosecute detainees who were subjected to brutal treatment or for prosecutors to use hearsay evidence gathered by intelligence agencies.
Obama administration officials — and Mr. Obama himself — have said in the past that they were not ruling out prosecutions in the military commission system. But senior officials have emphasized that they prefer to prosecute terrorism suspects in existing American courts. When President Obama suspended Guantánamo cases after his inauguration on Jan. 20, many participants said the military commission system appeared dead.
But in recent days a variety of officials involved in the deliberations say that after administration lawyers examined many of the cases, the mood shifted toward using military commissions to prosecute some detainees, perhaps including those charged with coordinating the Sept. 11 attacks.
“The more they look at it,” said one official, “the more commissions don’t look as bad as they did on Jan. 20.”
Several officials insisted on anonymity because the administration has directed that no one publicly discuss the deliberations.
Administration officials said Friday that some detainees would be prosecuted in federal courts and noted that Mr. Obama had always left open the possibility of using military commissions.
Still, during the presidential campaign Mr. Obama criticized the commissions, saying that “by any measure our system of trying detainees has been an enormous failure,” and declaring that as president he would “reject the Military Commissions Act.”
The military commissions, which were established specifically for trying Guantánamo detainees, have been subject to repeated delays and court challenges that argued that detainees were being denied basic rights of American law. Only two trials have been completed in the nearly eight years since the Bush administration announced that it would use military tribunals.
Any plan to adjust the military commissions would walk a tightrope of granting the suspects more rights yet stopping short of affording them the rights available to defendants in American courts. Several lawyers say the commissions are only beneficial for the government if they make it easier to win a prosecution than it would be in federal court.
The Bush administration’s commission system was criticized in part because it permitted evidence that would often be barred in federal court, like evidence obtained through coercive interrogations and hearsay.
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Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent on May 2, 2009 3:12 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Human rights groups said Friday that using any form of military commission would be seen as permitting shortcuts that would not be available in existing American courts.
Anthony D. Romero, the executive director of the American Civil Liberties Union, said that Mr. Obama had pledged to return the country to the rule of law and that “continuing with the military commission system would be a retreat from that promise.”
Gabor Rona, the international legal director of Human Rights First, said military commissions would only be necessary if the administration wanted to assure convictions that might not otherwise be certain.
“The administration is making a huge mistake,” Mr. Rona said, “if they believe getting convictions through suspect methods is more valuable than letting justice take its course.”
It is not clear how many of the remaining 241 detainees are likely to be prosecuted. The four-month suspension of military commission proceedings Mr. Obama ordered is to end May 20. As a result, administration officials are considering whether to ask military judges at Guantánamo for an additional delay. In making such a request, administration lawyers might outline their proposed changes.
In recent days, senior administration officials have hinted publicly that commissions were far from dead, yet offered no specifics and their comments drew little attention. In Congressional testimony on Thursday, Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said, “The commissions are still very much on the table.”
In a news conference this week, Attorney General Eric H. Holder Jr. emphasized that if the administration did use military commissions, the rules must give detainees “a maximum amount of due process.”
But, speaking of detainees whom American officials have accused of involvement in major terrorist plots, Mr. Holder added, “It may be difficult for some of those high-value detainees to be tried in a normal federal court.”
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» RE: U.S. May Revive Guantánamo Military Courts By WILLIAM GLABERSON part 2
Posted by: John More
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Posted by: remo on May 2, 2009 6:16 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, if so, if 911 holds such power over the changed realities, then WE had all better make very sure we know what we are talking about.
And the reading IS NOT good.
In the past 3 weeks we have a MAJOR science study, published in The Open Chemical Physics Journal, open to peer review, proving beyond the shadow of a doubt Active Thermitic Material present in the dust cloud. A C T I V E. ready to POP thermitic material IN the dust . We have Yukihisa Fujita, a member of the Upper House of the Japanese Parliament recently publish a book titled: "Questioning 9/11 in Japans Parliament - Can Obama Change the USA?"
We haveThe 911 commission [report, long discredited] now producing evidence of 'minders' overseeing the limits of questions and actively 'intimidating witnesses'. We have the first open statement of 'inside job' PNAC conspiracy aired on public tv [Rescue Me], and further evidence of skullduggery in the death of Barry Jennings, a key witness to the lies of NIST and WTC 7 reported by Dylan Avery in the Loose change Forums.
Thats the past 3 weeks on top of the past 8 years of unanswered evidence/information streams that I know of.
And I know NOTHING.
except.
To claim moral high ground, you better BE moral high ground.
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» Is Osama dead or alive
Posted by: kellysgarden
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Posted by: John More on May 3, 2009 6:25 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: brianct on May 3, 2009 3:35 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
dancing israelis
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» RE: Oh, they're busy...
Posted by: channing
McCain and Lieberman's "Enemy Belligerent" Act Could Set U.S. on Path to Military Dictatorship
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