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Rights and Liberties

What if Instead of the Nuremberg Trials There Was Only a Truth Commission?

By Jeremy Scahill, Rebel Reports. Posted April 29, 2009.


The lawyers who fought for the release of the torture memo explain why prosecutions, not a truth commission, are the only right thing.
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Representatives John Conyers and Jerrold Nadler are officially asking Attorney General Eric Holder to appoint an independent Special Prosecutor to investigate the Bush-era US torture system. But, as Politico reports, “Holder is likely to reject that request – his boss, the president, has indicated he doesn’t see the need for such a prosecutor.” The Democratic Leadership, particularly Obama, Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid and Sen. Diane Feinstein have pushed for secret, closed-door hearings in the Senate Intelligence Committee. Other Democrats, like Patrick Leahy, advocate establishing a Truth Commission, though that is not gaining any momentum. The fact remains that some powerful Democrats knew that the torture was happening and didn’t make a public peep in opposition.

This week, Lawrence Wilkerson, the former chief of staff to Secretary of State Colin Powell came out in favor of prosecutions of “the decision-makers and their closest advisors (particularly the ones among the latter who may, on their own, have twisted the dagger a little deeper in Caesar’s prostrate body -- Rumsfeld and Feith for instance). Appoint a special prosecutor such as Fitzgerald, armed to the teeth, and give him or her carte blanche. Play the treatment of any intermediaries — that is, between the grunts on the ground and the Oval — as the law allows and the results demand.”

Wilkerson, though, understands Washington. “Is there the political will to carry either of these recommendations to meaningful consequences?” he wrote to the Huffington Post. “No, and there won’t be.”

As of now, Conyers and Nadler aren’t exactly looking for over-flow space for their meetings on how to get criminal prosecutions going.

Officially joining the anti-accountability camp this week was The Washington Post’s David Broder who wrote this gem in defense of the Bush administration: “The memos on torture represented a deliberate, and internally well-debated, policy decision, made in the proper places -- the White House, the intelligence agencies and the Justice Department -- by the proper officials.” (For a great response to this, check out Scott Horton). Broder is urging Obama to “stick to his guns” in standing up to pressure “to change his mind about closing the books on the ‘torture’ policies of the past.” Don’t you love how Broder puts torture in quotes? I really wonder how Broder would describe it if he was waterboarded (and survived). Can’t you just imagine him making the little quote motion with his hands? Broder’s Washington Post column was titled “Stop Scapegoating: Obama Should Stand Against Prosecutions:”

[Obama was] right to declare that there should be no prosecution of those who carried out what had been the policy of the United States government. And he was right when he sent out his chief of staff, Rahm Emanuel, to declare that the same amnesty should apply to the lawyers and bureaucrats who devised and justified the Bush administration practices.

But now Obama is being lobbied by politicians and voters who want something more -- the humiliation and/or punishment of those responsible for the policies of the past. They are looking for individual scalps -- or, at least, careers and reputations.

Their argument is that without identifying and punishing the perpetrators, there can be no accountability -- and therefore no deterrent lesson for future administrations. It is a plausible-sounding rationale, but it cloaks an unworthy desire for vengeance.

Obama has opposed even the blandest form of investigation, a so-called truth commission, and has shown himself willing to confront this kind of populist anger.

Thank goodness we have a president who opposes “even the blandest form of investigation” -- how uncouth such savagery would prove to be. While the elite Washington press corp works hard to make sure things don’t get too uncomfortable at the wine and cheese cocktail parties, some liberal journalists are also making the case against a special prosecutor (or at least the immediate appointment of one). Last week it was Elizabeth de la Vega, who made an interesting case for waiting to prosecute while evidence is gathered:


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See more stories tagged with: colin powell, david broder, waterboarding, scott horton, michael ratner, david swanson, patrick fitzgerald, eric holder, patrick leahy, john conyers, jameel jaffer, truth commission, david corn, jerrold nadler, elizabeth de la vega

Jeremy Scahill, an independent journalist who reports frequently for the national radio and TV program Democracy Now!, has spent extensive time reporting from Iraq and Yugoslavia. He is currently a Puffin Writing Fellow at The Nation Institute. Scahill is the author of Blackwater: The Rise of the World's Most Powerful Mercenary Army. His writing and reporting is available at RebelReports.com.

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Option three?
Posted by: Crazy H on Apr 29, 2009 9:35 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't think it's yet time for prosecutions. The outrage needs to build a little more.

OTOH, a bi-partisan "truth commission" probably wouldn't do any good either. Look at the official 9-11 report, it went through contortions to avoid pinning any blame on anyone.

So, what's left? Keep informing the public, keep releasing memos, pictures and recordings. Seymour Hersh has seen some doozies; like the rape of a fourteen year old boy in front of his father. Let's get those out in public where we can all see what the Bush Cartel wrought in our name.

It's got to have public support, or else the GOP will just spin it as vengeance and being soft on terrorism and why do you hate America?

Once the public is gathering with the pitchforks and the torches, THEN the politicos will see it as their only hope for survival. Instead of rallying behind their own, they'll throw 'em to the wolves.

Go, Wolves!

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Israel's most effective Lie?
Posted by: weathered on Apr 29, 2009 9:40 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the one they tell themselves.

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Justice = vengeance
Posted by: photon's feather on Apr 29, 2009 2:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
New dictionaries all around!

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Option three
Posted by: wint on Apr 29, 2009 3:31 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Crazy H is correct keep up the pressure and keep those terrible facts and pictures coming because it will enrage those of us who actually think and have a heart for empathy and enrage those Republicans who think Bush and co. could do no wrong. Isn't it ironic that the lower downpeople in the military are held to such high ideals and the uppers are not. Just a thought. Keep up the pressure because those who tortured and those who said it was okay should and must be punished. The U.S. public demands it and I don't care what the President says, Try them!

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Nuremberg Trials have similar legal foundation to attempt try Bush Officials. It's not about revenge
Posted by: yellow on Apr 29, 2009 4:35 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The London Charter, which established the laws and procedures of the Nuremberg Trials, defined three different categories of offense: Crimes against Peace, War Crimes and Crimes against Humanity. "Following orders" was determined to be an invalid defense in the case of war crimes. The London Charter which established the International Military Tribunal allowed the defendants to have legal council, cross examine witnesses and appeal any verdicts against them to the Allied Control Council. The cases were heard by a panel of Judges not a Jury. The legal basis for the IMT's jurisdiction was the Instrument of the Surrender of Germany. Germany was legally controlled by the Allied Control Council which had the sovereign authority to choose to punish German citizens for crimes of war and other violations of international law. The IMT was limited to prosecuting crimes beginning on September 1,1939 when war broke out to the date of formal surrender to the Allies.

The validity of the IMT was challenged on several counts; the defense had no part in the selection of judges, many were charged with crimes ex post facto, ad homenem arguments were made to disqualify the defense in many instances and, finally, the trials were based on their own rules of evidence. Nevertheless there were valid legal bases for the IMT.

The Kellog/Briand Pact of 1928, which made "the waging of aggressive war a crime" and to which Germany was a signatory, was a legal basis for prosecuting the Nazis making the crime of "aggressive war" not based on an ex post facto indictment. The IMT established crimes punishable in international courts which had been affirmed as crimes in prior treaties and agreements to which all the axis and allied powers were at one time or another signatories. Following orders were no defense.

Bush officials clearly waged an aggressive war as an instrument of foreign policy and were guilty of crimes against peace, war crimes and crimes against humanity (torture, unlawful internment, killing of civilians and violating the terms of military occupation regarding the siezure of private and state property not related to security and other matters). The Hague Convention (1907), The Covenant of the League of Nations (1919) and The Kellogg-Briand Pact (1928) Plus all Four Geneva Conventions, most especially III and IV prohibit acts by the Nazis and The Bush Administration.

The Nuremberg Trials were legitimate and legal valid. For the same reasons, so would a trial of the Bush Officials responsible for international crimes.

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Torture is worthy of a Nuremberg trial even for those who were just following orders
Posted by: cori on Apr 29, 2009 7:16 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
They tortured innocent people in the wrong country. Iraq was not responsible for 911 to begin with. So to broach the subject of torture lets start with this fact. Having torture on the menu in and of itself is a practice that is worthy of a Nuremberg trial. If we do not punish those at the top for these acts with the added understanding that we invaded Iraq based on lies to begin with, then we are a nation who has lost its way and does not respect or live by the rule of law or have moral standards.

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What if?
Posted by: Pop on Apr 29, 2009 8:15 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What if we had a political 9-11 Commission with Zelicow as Executive Heax in stead of a Special Prosecuter to investigate what really happened and who did the high treason and mass murder of September 11, 2001, and then we could blame the demolition of the WTC on foreign terrorists.

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Obeying the Law
Posted by: DrBrian on Apr 30, 2009 1:57 AM   
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Torture apologists, including Panetta, Holder and Obama, are determined to categorize the offenses as mere indiscretions or breaches of etiquette, as if US and international law were no more than suggestions.

But torturing people, and torturing them to death in dozens of cases, are felonies. The Convention on Torture, which is American law, requires investigation and prosecution.

In developing countries lacking stable governance, perhaps truth commissions are acceptable compromises to end fighting. But that does not obtain in this case, and does not fulfill the requirements of the law.

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Time to get out...
Posted by: inanaturallight on Apr 30, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
while you still can. The laws now apply to only the people, the government is bound by no law and no constitution and simply does as it pleases with utterly facile excuses for its acts. Despite mountains of proof that Troy Davis is not guilty of the capital crime he is charged with, and of police 'coercion' of witnesses, the courts somehow cannot give him a new trial and his state will murder an innocent man, despite mountains of proof that the previous administration is guilty of war crimes on a massive scale the government cannot find the will to prosecute. We have become the new Nazis, the Fourth Reich. Citizenship is no longer a protection, and soon true patriotism will be a crime and the innocents being tortured will not be foreigners.

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» RE: Time to get out... Posted by: Ligeia
Begging for Zionist Permission, Part I
Posted by: Ligeia on May 10, 2009 12:44 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Our political dialog in the US is choked with WW2 references that are often totally irrelevant. And, these false paradigms both reflect the political powerlessness of the average American, and reinforce our powerlessness. We just spin our wheels in these useless comparisons to WW2, when we need to break out of the box, and review our situation afresh.

Remember: analogy is not always the most effective form of reasoning, and in particular, false analogies (such as: the NSDAP was the root of evil, and the Allied forces were saints from heaven) will only mislead and further choke debate.


The Nuremberg Trials were a disgrace. German officers were tortured to confess to crimes which were so ridiculous that they could not possibly be true. Ever wonder where the "Jewish soap" story came from? Read the actual testimony from those trials. What a hoot! They only prove that human beings will say anything when subjected to extreme abuse and physical pain, or when Allied forces threatened to murder their children. Torture does not reveal any truths, but rather only forces the victim to say anything he thinks will stop the torture.

Is torture really part of our American culture? Or were Zionists, eager for a pretext to establish Israel, allowed to conduct Nuremberg? White European societies are generally magnanimous towards defeated enemies. Tolstoi in "War & Peace" describes the absolute pity that the Russians felt for the French troops who were dying of starvation and extreme cold. He even has the ruthless Dolohov arguing that shooting French prisoners is kinder than taking them, since the Russian armies do not have sufficient provisions to feed them adequately. Note: he said to shoot the prisoners, not abuse or torture them; generous, considering that the Russians were a defending army.

Now, of course, White Europeans have in the course of history abused enemies and prisoners in particular instances, but generally speaking, we just don't believe in overkill. Not only is overkill immoral, but the result is lingering hostilities, when a return to peace and stability is in everyone's best interest.

Strong evidence suggests that Israelis were involved in Abu Ghraib, including the mysterious Mr. John Israel. The methods used were identical to methods used by Israelis against Palestinians. The young American soldiers were taking orders from Israeli contractors, which violates standard military procedure. White European military organizations always insist on a strict hierarchy, which imposes accountability. The war in Iraq was conducted according to foreign precepts for the advancement of a foreign power, Israel.

Why do American mainstream commentators so often hark back to WW2? One factor is that Jews tend to be highly self-absorbed. They quickly lose interest in any story or news event that does not relate to their own culture or to Israel. The American activist who wants to be heard knows this fact all too well. In a sense, he is asking, "Please, Jews, I am really on your side. I am supporting your Holocaust tale. Please reward me, a humble Gentile, with some media attention." We could
describe this style of rhetoric as "Begging for Zionist Permission."

A recent example: At a recent meeting of "World Can't Wait" in NYC, an antiwar
activist, whose only son was killed in Iraq, described Hitler Youth as an armed paramilitary organization for children. She was Begging for Zionist Permission: in
truth, Hitler Youth was just a German version of Boy Scouts, but by smearing the German reputation, she is both trying to get and retain Jewish attention, and begging for permission to speak her mind.

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Begging for Zionist Permission, Part II
Posted by: Ligeia on May 10, 2009 12:53 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
What is the result of Begging for Zionist Permission?

1. Jewish contempt for Gentile wheedling is reinforced, thereby making the situation even worse.

2. The White Intelligentsia (also nonwhite political intelligentsia) is offended at the patent untruths woven into such speech, and perceives the activist as a System dupe or "kwan."

3. The collective unconscious is offended. At a sub-conscious level, even a relatively uneducated White cannot imagine German 10-year old children toting machine guns, Jewish soap and all the rest of it. Like the government's explanation of Sept 11, collectively there is a feeling that something just isn't right. When the collective unconscious is offended, the message cannot resonate.

The above article is Begging for Zionist Permission. Logically, Nuremberg was the
first instance of the US (under Zionist influence) using torture in an overkill
effort. Instead of criticizing Nuremberg, Abu Ghraib and the later "water boarding" as instances of the same violations of our culture mores, Nuremberg is somehow held up as an honorable proceeding. We can gain no political traction because our rhetoric is clogged by this wholly unnecessary Begging for Zionist Permission.

What is the real crime? The real crime is that through the acceptance of bribes, our government is controlled by a foreign power, Israel, and for the crime of accepting Zionist bribes, they all should be tried, both GOP and Democrats alike.

To sum it all up: Will begging really persuade the Zionists that we should open up prosecutions of Zionists?

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