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Rights and Liberties

Tough Guys Hayden and Mukasey Defend Torture, Decry Release of the OLC Memos: Why They're Wrong

By Rep. Jan Schakowsky, AlterNet. Posted April 22, 2009.


Former Bush officials are trying to avoid accountability for their inhumane crimes. There is much you can do to make sure they don't get away with it.
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Editor's Note: Since the release last week of Bush-era government memos authorizing torture against suspected terrorists, momentum has been building to hold the architects of these inhumane, illegal policies accountable. In a piece published on AlterNet, David Swanson notes that there are many things you can do to help spur legal action against officials and lawyers who greenlit torture and to make sure the Obama administration doesn't sweep the issue under the rug. Writes Swanson:

There are a great many ways you can advance the cause of accountability, and they can all be found at http://prosecutebushcheney.org.

Remember that a serious attempt at accountability is a tremendous deterrent to future crimes and abuses even if it fails. And remember that they will not tell us we are succeeding until we already have. This is the moment for action. This is the time to pressure your representatives, to work the media, to be the media, to organize your groups and friends and neighbors. This is the moment to punch a hole through the wall that has separated those of us who are subject to laws from those who have not been.

 

***

No timid wimp is former CIA Director Michael Hayden. And he's not reluctant to tell you so. You can find out what a tough guy he really is by reading his opinion piece, written with former Attorney General Michael "Not sure waterboarding is torture" Mukasey in the April 17 Wall Street Journal, defending the use of torture and objecting to the release of the nightmarish memos. We're talking here about "walling", (repeatedly smashing a detainee against a wall), stress positions (hanging a person from the ceiling with feet barely touching the floor -- including a one legged man), sleep deprivation for as long as 11 days, cramped confinement (put in a casket-sized box or smaller -- insects optional), and that medieval favorite, waterboarding.

In fact, it was the torture described in these memos, the existence of secret prisons, Guantanamo Bay, and Abu Ghraib that endangered the security of the United States. What better tools could there be to inflame and recruit new terrorists and instill hatred for our country throughout the Muslim world and beyond? Still Mukasey and Hayden clearly believe that these techniques should have been used and should be used in the future. They are in favor of torture.

Hayden and Mukasey accuse the no-torture policy of inviting "the kind of institutional timidity and fear of recrimination that weakened intelligence gathering in the past, and that we came sorely to regret on September 11, 2001." That's a version of history I actually hadn't heard espoused by anyone ever before -- that had the intelligence community not been weakened by timidity and fear, 9/11 might not have happened. All this time I thought it had more to do with the fact that the White House did nothing to follow up on the August 6, 2001 daily briefing entitled "Bin Laden determined to strike in U.S." that included the warning that "FBI information... indicates patterns of suspicious activity in this country consistent with preparations for hijackings..."

The Michaels Hayden and Mukasey assert that "public disclosure of the OLC opinions, and thus the techniques themselves, assures that terrorists are now aware of the absolute limit of what the U.S. government could do to extract information from them." Certainly the men who served as CIA Director and Attorney General must be aware that the secret of these techniques has been known by anyone who could read a newspaper beginning as long ago as December 26, 2002. That's when Dana Priest and Barton Gellman of the Washington Post reported on "stress and duress" interrogation tactics. Yes, everyone already knew about this dirty secret, and many have long been genuinely repulsed and offended by the attitude of one official who was quoted years ago as saying, "If you don't violate someone's human rights some of the time, you probably aren't doing your job."


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See more stories tagged with: cia, torture, fbi, barack obama, washington post, wall street journal, michael mukasey, waterboarding, michael hayden, abu zubaydah, barton gellman, dana priest

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And How About the Ones Who Died?
Posted by: DrBrian on Apr 22, 2009 12:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Aside from the fact that all of the described techniques have been ruled torture in court cases and treaties, these two devious thugs neglect to explain why, if the procedures are so benign, there are at least 43 cases of death in US custody ruled homicide by military pathologists. Torturing someone to death is felony murder, even if death is unintended.

George W. Bush has repeatedly boasted publicly about deaths in custody. Far from being distressed, he was actually proud!

http://physiciansforhumanrights .org/torture/areas-of-focus /detainee-deaths/

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Who Would Jesus Torture? Posted by: DrBrian
» RE: Who Would Jesus Torture? Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: And How About the Ones Who Died? Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Once again, the 9/11 false flag is used to justify policies which are destroying our country
Posted by: LeftWright on Apr 22, 2009 1:45 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Torture is terrorism intended to create more terrorists.

We need to force the msm to expose the 9/11 cover-up, or bypass it completely and demand a new, thorough and transparent investigation into the events of 9/11/01.

We need to restore the rule of law and root out the corruption which is destroying our country from within.

The war on terror is a fraud, 9/11 was a false flag attack.

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Once again, you are right! Posted by: pfgetty
» You may be right, Lauren. Posted by: pfgetty
» You're a good egg pfgetty. Posted by: Centavo
» GB makes jokes about torture, Posted by: LeftWright
» , the 9/11 false flag is BS Posted by: surfreality
» RE: , the 9/11 false flag is BS Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Quit spamming us Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» Sister_Lauren - Posted by: LeftWright
» Typical conspiranoid lunatic. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Now what would motivate... Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» 2 out of 4 isn't bad, I suppose. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Is that a threat or a promise? Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: And your credentials are... Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» And your credentials are... Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: And your credentials are... Posted by: GuitarBill
» "Debunk" this, EncinoM: Posted by: LeftWright
» Well put, Centavo, Posted by: LeftWright
» Shut up, LeftWrong. Posted by: GuitarBill
» Mock 'em. Posted by: GuitarBill
» RE: Mock 'em. Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Mock 'em. Posted by: GuitarBill
Democrats...
Posted by: adp3d on Apr 22, 2009 2:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...should never have allowed these men to be confirmed for these jobs. Wasn't it Schumer and Feinstein that tipped the scale for Mukasey? "Uhh, I'm not sure what you mean Senator, if waterboarding is torture than it is a crime, I'm just not sure that it is torture...I'll have to get back to you on that..."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Democrats... Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Democrats... Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: Democrats...no choices Posted by: VZEQICVA
» RE: Democrats...no choices Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Democrats... Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Apr 22, 2009 2:39 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib are two different jurisdictions. Going back to Git Mo, what laws were violated again that are with in the Constitutional rights of the President?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib Posted by: Sister_Lauren
They Both Should be held to Account for their Criminal Complicity in Torture
Posted by: eyendall on Apr 22, 2009 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hayden and Mukasay should both be tried and punished along with all other senior officials of the Bush administration who advocated and allowed the use of torture. The Nazi's paid for their crimes even though Germany was at war and under attack, and torture was used against their declared enemies i.e. soldiers, partisans, and "terrorists". These officials use the Nazi defense, which is no defense for a civilised nation, and the Bush "Nazi's" are using it also. America's "Nazis" should be held to account and jailed, shamed, and, at the very least, humiliated and ostracised. America must cleanse itself and that means holding the culprits to account, not brushing it under the carpet for political expediency. Never again.

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» Non-Uniform Combatants Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: Non-Uniform Combatants Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Non-Uniform Combatants Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Utter nonsense!
Posted by: Cybershaman on Apr 22, 2009 5:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"the kind of institutional timidity and fear of recrimination that weakened intelligence gathering in the past, and that we came sorely to regret on September 11, 2001."

And here I thought it was the arrogance and sabre rattling that created an atmosphere where people actually believed they could treat the rest of the world with utter and obvious contempt, and the world could do nothing about it. That, because of their 'God ordained ideology' that we were untouchable and beyond reproach, we provoked the 9-11 attack on ourselves.

Silly me! It was because we were too timid!!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Once more through the looking-glass . . .
Posted by: hagwind on Apr 22, 2009 6:28 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Check out the lead story in today's New York Times. The willful ignorance of these people is just flabbergasting. Their reasoning went something like "if we use these techniques in training our own troops, what's so bad about using them against 'terrorist suspects'?" But these "training techniques" were based on "interrogation techniques" used by the Communists during the Korean War. When those evil Commies used them, they were torture. When the U.S. military used them against its own personnel, they were "training techniques."

So what were they when used by U.S. personnel against "terrorist suspects"? The way I figure it, if the terrorist suspects were being trained as U.S. military personnel, then waterboarding, etc., are "training techniques." If not, then it's torture.

Nancy Pelosi, according to the article, "has said in public statements that she recalls being briefed on the methods, including waterboarding. She insists, however, that the lawmakers were told only that the C.I.A. believed the methods were legal — not that they were going to be used." Facrissake -- if your kid comes to you and says, "What would happen if I hit a baseball through the living room window?" the odds are pretty good that there's glass all over the living room rug.

What it comes down to, I do believe, is that these people tortured because they wanted to, and those didn't know what was going on didn't want to know what was going on.

Concentration camps? I never saw any concentration camps.

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» RE: Training techniques Posted by: Sister_Lauren
JT Barrie
Posted by: rimchamp77 on Apr 22, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Of course the only reason for using torture is to extract confessions of guilt to justify abusive policies like the Inquisition and the Witch trials. It also provides a release for frustrations at an enemy that won't stand still and get slaughtered by superior firepower.
I seriously doubt that much - if any - useful information that actually anticipated and prevented other attacks was found. Of course these "successes" touted by Dick Cheney are so conveniently secret so as not to attract actual scrutiny until well out of office. Does he really want to expose these to public scrutiny or is he just posturing.

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» RE: Useful information Posted by: Sister_Lauren
THEY KNEW
Posted by: GREYDOG on Apr 22, 2009 8:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There is now hard evidence that torture was ordered at the highest levels of the Bush/Cheney Administration immediately after 9/11, which, I believe, they themselves planned and executed.

I know there is no hard evidence to support the latter part of that statement, but my guess is that in time, that too will come out.

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» GREYDOG - Have a look at this: Posted by: LeftWright
» RE: GREYDOG - Have a look at this: Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: THEY KNEW Posted by: Dr. P. Mooney
» RE: Hard evidence does exist Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: I just heard Posted by: Fempatriot
If more Democrats would learn to be bold as Jan Schakowsky,
Posted by: WYGunston on Apr 22, 2009 8:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
we wouldn't be having fucks like Hayden and Mukasey in power to begin with ! To hell with those god damn motherfucking millionaries in both parties running the fucking senate !

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Torture?
Posted by: Archie1954 on Apr 22, 2009 9:59 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I still find it difficult to come to terms with discussing whether or not torture should be used for questioning in this day and age. It's almost as if ethics and morals have not advanced one little bit since the dark ages. That the US should be involved in torture, that the former resident approved it, that the former Vice-president operated assassination squads out of his office is so unbelievably disgusting that even today I feel like I'm waking up from a nightmare. These "men", I can't bring myself to call them "gentle" all belong in the deepest, darkest dungeon located at a blackops site created by them. They are subhuman and must be ostracized by civilized people. Who knows? What they espouse may be contagious especially to the right wing braindead Republicans out there.

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» I don't agree Posted by: Drclaw
» RE: I don't agree Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: Well said. Posted by: Fempatriot
Spies Are Needed.
Posted by: melpol on Apr 22, 2009 1:08 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The false reports about weapons of mass destruction shows that there needs to be improvements in the way the U.S. gathers information. Kicking the butts of thousands of Moslem radicals is not a good way to do it. Well paid informants that work deep within the enemy lines is the only successful way of getting quality information. Intelligent agents should develop a network of spies. It would replace the ineffective use of torture.

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» RE: Spies Are Needed. Posted by: Fempatriot
torture is good???
Posted by: wint on Apr 22, 2009 2:32 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To torture is to admit you don't have a clue what is going on and you have to make someone scream to prove it. At the beginning of the Afgan mess I read a book about an interrigator who said that he got informatikon out of people by respecting them and trying to do kind acts for and to them. Then the great CIA came in and botched things up and he knew torture was going on (through the grape vine) and knew that they would get no info that was worth much. Cheney says to let out all the files that prove that the U.S. was safer because of this but I have one question Who is going to save us when the torturers come for us? The U.N. Universal Declaration of Human Rights of 1948 which we signed states that everyone in custody must be treated in humane ways. There is no excuse for what they did they knew what they were doing and they made more terrorists than they captured. Tonight on NPR a senior military man stated that the deaths in Iraq could be attributed to Abu Grib and Guantanamo. Terrorists Bush made his own war and made his own enemies and now he should be held accountable for it. Period.

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» RE: torture is good??? Posted by: Fempatriot
"Tough Guys"?
Posted by: jmmartin on Apr 22, 2009 3:05 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Really? You can tell by looking at Hayden he was the little boy who pulled wings off flies. Tough? Give me a break. He is a wimp who has spent all his adult life trying to compensate for his ball-lessness. He's the skinny kid in the Charles Atlas cartoons who always had sand kicked in his face by the body builders. He's a punk.

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The Big Picture
Posted by: Revolutionary (Direct) Democracy on Apr 22, 2009 5:07 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Torture is one narrow band in a broad spectrum of illegality on the part of the George W. Bush Criminal Conspiracy.

Don't allow the whole array of issues to be narrowed down to one "thumbs up or thumbs down" decision.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

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How pathetic and complacent has our nation become
Posted by: democracynowiniraq on Apr 22, 2009 10:27 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
when the very perpetrators of 9/11 have now become the poor, innocent victims?

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Dead For Oil
Posted by: bluebama II on Apr 23, 2009 1:39 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Republicans raped 9-11 into stealing Iraq's oil. One million three hundred thousand Iraqis are dead. Torture is illegal. Nineteen Saudis attacked us. My former air force chemically bombed two Fallujah hospitals and a first aid station with white phosphorous in Dec. 06 to control the civilian body count never released to Iraqi Nationals or the world. War Crimes. Bubba don't get to murder whomever you want for oil contracts for Hunt and Halliburton. Fry every one of them and ram an American flag up their ass!

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Torture ---> Put the Perpetrators on TRIAL
Posted by: A. Z. Arrow on Apr 25, 2009 7:58 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A toothless "Truth Commission" insures a cover-up and future occurrences of these sicko activities.

Torture is a national disgrace, it is also illegal: The “Nuremberg defense” will not do -"I was only following orders." Well, who gave these orders? Who authorized the use of torture? The law requires that those who colluded with these crimes be investigate, charged, brought to trail, and, if found guilty, sentenced --CIA operatives, private contractors, and Bush administration officials included. There is no debate on this. Torture is a violation of the Geneva Convention that the United States Government initiated, help draft, and signed, along with other nations, on the dotted line. The US has imposed compliance with Geneva in its' treaties and military alliances with other nations. Further, United States law makes it obligatory that Eric Holder bring charges against those responsible for the crime of torture. If Holder and/or Obama do not comply with these laws then they are engaged in a cover-up.

We are better than Israeli's and other violators of human rights

A.Z. Arrow >Citizen of Vermont
4/25/09
----------------------------->

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