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Rights and Liberties

Obama Administration Quietly Expands Bush's Legal Defense of Warrantless Wiretapping

By John Byrne, Raw Story. Posted April 8, 2009.


In a legal filing on Friday, Obama lawyers claimed the government is shielded from lawsuits by a 'sovereign immunity' clause in the Patriot Act.
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In a stunning defense of President George W. Bush's warrantless wiretapping program, President Barack Obama has broadened the government's legal argument for immunizing his Administration and government agencies from lawsuits surrounding the National Security Agency's eavesdropping efforts.

In fact, a close read of a government filing last Friday reveals that the Obama Administration has gone beyond any previous legal claims put forth by former President Bush.

Responding to a lawsuit filed by a civil liberties group, the Justice Department argued that the government was protected by "sovereign immunity" from lawsuits because of a little-noticed clause in the Patriot Act. The government's legal filing can be read here (PDF).

For the first time, the Obama Administration's brief contends that government agencies cannot be sued for wiretapping American citizens even if there was intentional violation of U.S. law. They maintain that the government can only be sued if the wiretaps involve "willful disclosure" -- a higher legal bar.

"A 'willful violation' in Section 223(c(1) refers to the 'willful disclosure' of intelligence information by government agents, as described in Section 223(a)(3) and (b)(3), and such disclosures by the Government are the only actions that create liability against the United States," Obama Assistant Attorney General Michael Hertz wrote (page 5).

Senior Staff Attorney Kevin Bankston at the Electronic Frontier Foundation, which is suing the government over the warrantless wiretapping program, notes that the government has previously argued that changes to the Patriot Act protected the government from lawsuits surrounding eavesdropping. But he says that this is the first time that they've made the case that the Patriot Act protects the government from all surveillance statutes.

"They are arguing this based on changes to the law made by the USA PATRIOT Act, Section 223," Bankston said in an email to Raw Story. "We've never been fans of 223 -- it made it much harder to sue the U.S. for illegal spying, see an old write-up of mine at: http://w2.eff.org/patriot/sunset/223.php --but no one's ever suggested before that it wholly immunized the U.S. government against suits under all the surveillance statutes."

Salon columnist and constitutional scholar Glenn Greenwald -- who is generally supportive of progressive interpretations of the law -- says the Obama Administration has "invented a brand new claim" of immunity from spying litigation.

"In other words, beyond even the outrageously broad 'state secrets' privilege invented by the Bush administration and now embraced fully by the Obama administration, the Obama DOJ has now invented a brand new claim of government immunity, one which literally asserts that the U.S. Government is free to intercept all of your communications (calls, emails and the like) and -- even if what they're doing is blatantly illegal and they know it's illegal -- you are barred from suing them unless they 'willfully disclose' to the public what they have learned," Greenwald wrote Monday.

He also argues that the Justice Department's response is exclusively a product of the new Administration, noting that three months have elapsed since President Bush left office.

"This brief and this case are exclusively the Obama DOJ's, and the ample time that elapsed -- almost three full months -- makes clear that it was fully considered by Obama officials," Greenwald wrote. "Yet they responded exactly as the Bush DOJ would have. This demonstrates that the Obama DOJ plans to invoke the exact radical doctrines of executive secrecy which Bush used -- not only when the Obama DOJ is taking over a case from the Bush DOJ, but even when they are deciding what response should be made in the first instance."

"Everything for which Bush critics excoriated the Bush DOJ -- using an absurdly broad rendition of 'state secrets' to block entire lawsuits from proceeding even where they allege radical lawbreaking by the President and inventing new claims of absolute legal immunity -- are now things the Obama DOJ has left no doubt it intends to embrace itself," he adds.

Both the Electronic Frontier Foundation and the American Civil Liberties Union say the "sovereign immunity" claim in the context of the case goes farther than any previous Bush Administration claims of wiretap immunity.

Writing about the changes to the Patriot Act last year, the EFF asserted that revisions to the Act involved troubling new developments for U.S. law.

"Unlike with any other defendant, if you want to sue the federal government for illegal wiretapping you have to first go through an administrative procedure with the agency that did the wiretapping," the Foundation wrote. "That means, essentially, that you have to politely complain to the illegal wiretappers and tip them off to your legal strategy, and then wait for a while as they decide whether to do anything about it before you can sue them in court."

Moreover, they said, "Before PATRIOT, in addition to being able to sue for money damages, you could sue for declaratory relief from a judge. For example, an Internet service provider could ask the court to declare that a particular type of wiretapping that the government wants to do on its network is illegal. One could also sue for an injunction from the court, ordering that any illegal wiretapping stop. PATRIOT section 223 significantly reduced a judge's ability to remedy unlawful surveillance, making it so you can only sue the government for money damages. This means, for example, that no one could sue the government to stop an ongoing illegal wiretap. At best, one could sue for the government to pay damages while the illegal tap continued!"

The Obama Administration has not publicly commented on stories that revealed their filing on Monday.


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See more stories tagged with: patriot act, bush administration, barack obama, surveillance, department of justice, glenn greenwald, national security agency, warrantless wiretappong, kevin bankston

John Byrne is editor of Raw Story.

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Keep reporting the news...
Posted by: jmndodge on Apr 8, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I have to maintain the hope that Americans still value the freedom and constitutional liberties that characterized our nation. I have to believe that when given accurate, factual information, they will respond.

Many felt that their work was done when Obama was elected to the office of president, but we discover that now the tough work is just begining, and that a massive public support system is needed to pressure him to restore the freedoms the Bush administration put into such danger.

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TGFaull
Posted by: TGFaull on Apr 8, 2009 6:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Never one to give up ALL hope, I hope this is a brilliant legal maneuver by the Obama team. If the administration were to abandon these cases, there would be no legal precedent to limit future administrations. But by presenting testimony highlighting the most egregious possible uses of the laws (ostensibly as a defense), the administration could get the courts to strike these laws down -- hopefully unto the Supremes.

If the laws withstand court scrutiny, judicial reasoning will provide a roadmap to laws of a more rational nature.

(Either that, or the president just doesn't want to end up like JFK.)

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» Dream on, Sunshine Posted by: leafsong1
» RE: Obama's 'billiant' maneuver Posted by: DCostello2
» RE: TGFaull Posted by: eruditeogre
RE: Not surprised
Posted by: wrinklemomma on Apr 8, 2009 8:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
IDENTITY THIEF STRIKES AGAIN!!! Givi it up , dude, we recognize you!

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SPAM, identity theft.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Apr 8, 2009 8:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Please use Alternet's "report this comment" link and report this Spam.

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IMPEACH THE WHITE HOUSE AND CONGRESS !
Posted by: WYGunston on Apr 8, 2009 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At this point, it's perfectly safe to say that Obama is making Bush look "liberal" these days. For a constitutional "scholar" hell bent on continuing Bush's goals of trashing the Constitution, I wouldn't be surprised if he and Congress passed more fascist gun control laws. IMPEACH CONGRESS AND THE WHITE HOUSE ! And let's take down the traitors in both parties next year !

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Loop holes....the two words the wealthy use to keep their money from the government
Posted by: corey on Apr 8, 2009 6:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I can believe it because he is trying to get on the good side of the Repubs.

What he doesn't realize is, MOST of them will do whatever they can to destroy him, like they did with Bill Clinton, where they spent almost 100 million of the tax dollars of American Citizens....where nothing was ever resolved.

Loop holes....the two words the wealthy use to keep their money from the government....we can all learn from them.... Read More

That is the ONLY way to survive in the USA.

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electronic surveillance
Posted by: vasumurti on Apr 8, 2009 7:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In his 1992 book, Visions of Liberty, former Executive Director of the ACLU, Ira Glasser writes:

"The use of wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping emerged during the Prohibition era. Roy Olmstead was a suspected bootlegger whom the government wished to search. It placed taps in the basement of his office building and on wires in the streets near his home. No physical entry into his office or home took place. Olmstead was convicted entirely on the basis of evidence from the wiretaps.

"In his appeal to the Supreme Court, Olmstead argued that the taps were a search conducted without a warrant and without probable cause, and that the evidence seized against him should have been excluded because it was illegally gathered. He also argued that his Fifth Amendment right not to be a witness against himself was violated.

"By a 5-4 vote, the Court rejected his arguments and upheld the government's power to wiretap without limit and without any Fourth Amendment restrictions, on the grounds that no actual physical intrusion had taken place.

"Olmstead's Fifth Amendment claim was also dismissed on the grounds that he had not been compelled to talk on the telephone, but had done so voluntarily. Thus the Court upheld the government's power to do by trickery and surreptitious means what it was not permitted to do honestly and openly. It wasn't until 1967, in a similar case involving gambling, that the Court overruled the Olmstead decision by an 8-1 margin and recognized that the Fourth Amendment applied to wiretapping and electronic surveillance.

"Interestingly, these cases arose in the context of crimes like bootlegging and gambling. During the past twenty years, the majority of wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping by both state and federal officials has been in cases involving drug dealing and gambling.

"Serious crimes of violence, such as homicide, assault, rape, robbery, and burglary, are rarely the target of electronic eavesdropping, which is not normally a useful tool in such cases.

"From the beginning, when wiretapping was virtually invented to enforce laws prohibiting the sale of alcohol, to the late 1960s, when gambling was a major target, to the present, when the use and sale of drugs other than alcohol are the main target, these intrusive devices have been used mostly to enforce laws aimed at punishing and proscribing personal conduct that society deems immoral.

"Because such conduct essentially involves private activities among consenting adults who are all likely to want to keep those activities secret, they are harder to investigate and prosecute than crimes like robbery or burglary, in which an unwilling victim will probably aid any investigation...the invasion of privacy inherent in wiretapping and electronic eavesdropping remains with us as part of the legacy of our attempts to criminalize personal conduct.

"The other major use of electronic eavesdropping has been to punish political dissent. For decades, former FBI director J. Edgar Hoover used wiretaps and other electronic devices to spy on political figures and citizens not yet suspected of having committed a crime. He built vast dossiers on their political activities and personal lives. Special units of local police called 'Red Squads' did the same."

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This ONE issue could end the Bases Support
Posted by: Purple Girl on Apr 8, 2009 7:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First I must clarify I was a Kucinch Primary Voter. But once the inevitable struck- I became an active volunteer for Obama. Main reason was 'No one is Above the law'.
I have not loved his choice for various offices- Hate Hillary (realized she's a Repug), Not thrilled with Geitner and Distrust Summers.Leary of La Hood and Gates.But have also realized Obama Was never a liberal Dem, so I was not surprised or even concerned. The 'Change' this country needs is going to take decades- just like it took for the Red Coats and their Blue lap dogs to fuck it up.
I voted for him purely on the adage of Justice and letter of the law. I am not happy he has not moved directly to prosecutions for War crimes. It will be a vindication of those who consider US the 'evil empire' to fail in that Respsonsiblity. If another nation, or international court proceeds before Our Gov't does, this will be not only a travesty, but a crime agaisnt humanity. To let them walk for this High crime only makes them complicit, thus culpable.
But wiretapping is Solely a violation of American Rights under our Founding Doctrines. This is a betrayal of US and our rules of Law.Failure to prosecute a travesty, Failure to recind is a pertpetuation of Abuse of Power, and to enhance is nothing short of Treason.
This one act throws all his other policies and intentions into serious question.If he intends to protect and defend Corps who conspired with Public servants, above and beyond the rights of our citizens when it comes to the inalienable right to privacy, He is going to be in serious trouble come '12.
I cna understand the necessity of dancing with the Devils on Wall Street- It has become such an insideous entrenched economic system over the last 3 decades- some finesse and prudence must be taken to not cause further collapse. But no such moderation or consideration is required to end Spying on Americans by Corps or Gov't agencies.
"No ones Above the Law" Mr President- that includes You too.Accomplices after the fact are just as prosecutable.Reconsider your stance on Wiretapping and the Prosecution of the Bushies for High Crimes...That Was a Campaign promise we will hold you too- or will hold against you, should you refuse.

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I want my vote back.
Posted by: DJC11 on Apr 8, 2009 7:30 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
To put it mildly, I'm very dissatisfied with the Obama Administration, and I'd like to have my vote back. That is possible, right?

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» You can vote him out in 2012. Posted by: WYGunston
» RE: I want my vote back. Posted by: Sister_Lauren
Obviously, we can't change anything by voting
Posted by: leafsong1 on Apr 8, 2009 7:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Can everybody see that now?

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» RE: I never give up Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» It starts with educating Posted by: topbrick
» the drug of television Posted by: Bliss Doubt
We Are Suckers
Posted by: QQOblivion on Apr 8, 2009 8:13 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Meet the new Big Brother, same as the old Big Brother.

Obama is as good as it will EVER get in America. It is only downhill from here. Hope you like your police-state!

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» RE: We Are Suckers Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: We Are Suckers Posted by: aonghus36
Another kick in the gut from the "change" candidate.
Posted by: Bliss Doubt on Apr 8, 2009 8:25 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is terribly disappointing. I can only urge people to be very careful with language on the phone and on the web. Choose your words carefully. The spying on citizens is never about stopping terrorism. It's all about a convenient database for slotting people in based on various things that can be used against them if there should be a need to make them disappear for political reasons.

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Uncle Tom has to satisfy the master (military-financial complex)
Posted by: MeyravLevine on Apr 8, 2009 8:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
to live in the house.

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Even Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow are baffled by this man's arrogance and power grabbing.
Posted by: JenniferBedingfield on Apr 8, 2009 8:31 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I already knew that Obama would turn out to be a full blown weasel the minute he caved in to voting for FISA last year. Sadly, the voters still "forgave" him and supported him anyway and yet Obama's worsened himself by further going against privacy rights and soiling the Democratic Party. Worse, I come across Obamabots and even my friends and family who voted for him actually defending his moves saying "Well, Obama has to prove that he can help America win the 'war on terrorism'" blah-blah-blah ! When even Keith Olberman and Rachel Maddow, not that I watch them much, are disappointed with Obama's latest moves, then you know Obama and his gang have really gone off the cliff. By the way, notice that the Republicans are not opposing Obama on this issue. Gee, I wonder why !

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» Screw MSNBC Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
Bushier than Bush
Posted by: DCostello2 on Apr 8, 2009 8:46 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Looks like O-blah-blah is out Bushing Bush. He's expanded the War in Afghanistan. He's expanded the War in Pakistan - did Congress even approve this??? He's not going to investigate anyone, let alone prosecute them. And now he's EXPANDING illegal wiretapping. He knows who his masters are and how to please them, that's for sure.

So, how many of you are ready to beating up folks like myself, Jennifer, and others for condemning O-blah-blah and the Democrats and pushing for 3rd parties??? I would hope by now ALL of you but I doubt it.

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» RE: Bushier than Bush Posted by: JenniferBedingfield
olivelawyers
Posted by: RSOlive on Apr 8, 2009 8:49 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While my emotional reaction was "you've got to be kidding," my background made me take a look at the brief and the authorities cited. Obama's justice department has no choice: it has sworn to uphold the law, and when the original Patriot Act was enacted, it retained sovereign immunity from suits against the United States other than those for damages under the Federal Tort Claims Act. I'm like everyone else who is mad at Obama for promising to filibuster the FISA changes and then voting for it, but the Patriot Act superseded FISA in this respect. It's up to the legislature to revoke the Patriot Act, and you won't see this Congress or any other do that.

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» RE: olivelawyers Posted by: hilaryuk
Repeal the PATRIOT Act.
Posted by: bovine spongiform encephalopathy on Apr 8, 2009 9:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Obviously, it's too much to think that any President will agree to give up power of any kind. The legislature can limit the powers of the executive. We all need to work to repeal the PATRIOT act. This pernicious law is SO responsible for the emerging police state we're seeing sprout up around us.

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» RE: epeal the PATRIOT Act. Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: Repeal the PATRIOT Act. Posted by: monkeywrench
Nouthing to See here, I'm a Democrat
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Apr 8, 2009 12:00 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You want your Heathcare
You want your Food Stamps for Organic food you get at Whole Foods (because that shit is expansive)
You want your government to buy back your gma's hand me down beater Buick so you can get 1st dibs on that CM's hybird (Congressional Motors)

wait you think they are going to let the plebes even own automobiles?

Well at least you can have some affordable housing right with that thermostat that stays on 62 in the winter

either way

Nothing to see here, shut up before you mess up the swag. At lest you'll have wind power!

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organized crime, wiretapping, and intelprop theft
Posted by: littlepitcher on Apr 8, 2009 12:25 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't say you weren't warned. Obama's white family, the Wrights, are linked to wiretap rackets in the Southeast, reputedly for ideas for cartoon syndicates.
If you don't like that idea, check the stock market bonus rackets. Yellow Pages for New York lists multitudes of Wright securities and investment attorneys. These subsidies and bonuses were planned.
The Wrights were one of the biggest slaveholder families in East Tennessee, way back when. Looks like they haven't changed, just gotten a better coverup.

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caronome
Posted by: Bayardtom on Apr 8, 2009 2:27 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
As a devoted supporter of Kucinich, I am not surprised by this turn of events. Obama wasn't even my second choice. But when the Dems, the Repugs and the media torpedoed Dennis, I had no choice but to vote for Obama. One certainly couldn't support Grampa Diapers, that nasty old fool.

So I held my nose and hoped for the best. One must admit that Obama is chock full of charisma and his family certainly put him over the top. But then he took office and started making bad choices for his appointees. Hillary, that charming hawk, Gates? good heavens!! You know the rest. Daschle? It goes on.

But now he's really pissing me off. This is the last straw. If he doesn't repeal the wiring of our citizens, we should have a new election. Please call, email, write or storm the White House and make your feelings known about these rotten decisions. Make sure you really tell it like it is - that you are mad as Hell and you're not going to take it anymore!Don't be shy. This is your life, too.

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» RE: caronome Posted by: aonghus36
» Grampa Diapers Posted by: BlueTigress
» RE: caronome Posted by: koolwoman
OUR ENTIRE GOVERNMENT HAS BECOME ONE BIG PONZI SCHEME
Posted by: cori on Apr 8, 2009 2:30 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We vote for our reps, they join committees and then vote for special interests. When you call the head of the defense spending committee they tell you to call your senator. You call your senator and they barely listen and tell you they have another call. In the mean time its business as usual- billions for the military, no health care. wireless wire tapping, the bankers big rip off now run by former hedge fund " regulator" Obama's best boy - Obama is a charmer and does a good cosmetic job but scratch the surface and its the same old shit. There is no spreading of the wealth and it's not about main street. He is breaking the law bailing out broken banks with our money that hold worthless assists and trying to cover it up. More then half the nation has 10 % unemployment - look it up. Rather then uplifting the poor to en able them to contribute, he gives them tents and they can starve and die in the gutter. People here don't want to help the poor but all of a sudden they are standing on the food lines too. They just don't get it. We are either in this together or go down together. Imagine how many people he could put to work if Obama paid to build homes for the homeless. I don't have a good feeling this nation. It is headed for MORE BIG TROUBLE. Now blue dog Democrats are blocking national health care - do you think their constituents don't want health care? But I don’t care I call every day – I think an organization should be formed where people pay for lobbyists. If enough people paid millions could be raised and we could payoff the SOBs cause it doesn’t seem like voting means much anymore, they always find away to sabotage us.

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Remember?
Posted by: Aquinas on Apr 8, 2009 2:51 PM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's almost painful to remind everyone that Nader went to great pains to inform the American people that there isn't a dime's worth of difference between the two major parties---golden boy Obama is proving it more and more with each passing day.
A government of, by and for the people has to start with someone who actually represents the people. Nader has a lifetime of representing the people and has always stood in opposition to the corporate structure that both major parties have knelt down before. There's a tendency for people to get exactly the type of government they deserve.

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» Oh yeah ! Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent
We The People
Posted by: wormfarmer on Apr 8, 2009 4:29 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Do still have the constitutional power of recall, right?

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The worst overreach imaginable.
Posted by: Quannah on Apr 8, 2009 4:33 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For the first time, the Obama Administration's brief contends that government agencies cannot be sued for wiretapping American citizens even if there was intentional violation of US law. They maintain that the government can only be sued if the wiretaps involve "willful disclosure" -- a higher legal bar.

So, in other words, if they make public the information obtained through the wiretap!

That's extraordinary! Even Bush didn't go that far! The law that made these wiretaps legal only said that the telecom companies couldn't be sued. It didn't extend to the federal government.

So, our right to privacy, our right not to be illegally surveiled by our own government, has no protection if we aren't allowed to sue if it happens. What good is a "right" if we have no recourse if that right is infringed upon?

It's as Keith Olbermann said to Jonathan Turley last night on Countdown -- "It's as if it's okay that I steal your money, just as long as I don't spend it."

THIS IS HORRIBLE.

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» RE: The worst overreach imaginable. Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent
I feel pretty bad that Obama's actually screwing up this bad.
Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent on Apr 8, 2009 4:49 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I mean expected goofups but what's with this guy these days? Maybe he doesn't want a second term? At this rate, the only way he'll win a second term is if the GOP nominates David Duke or even Sarah Palin. Somehow, despite my having not voted for him because I did not feel comfortable with his changings on the issues back during the campaign, I have a bad feeling that I and countless others somehow need to find some way to wake Obama up. I mean I don't wanna flank him but he seems to be asking for it. Ok, not my day today.

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TO THE STREETS
Posted by: Ahimsa on Apr 8, 2009 4:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
When are the protests, again?

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» It has to start local first. Posted by: LaughingModerateIndependent
Who Governs
Posted by: Ahimsa on Apr 8, 2009 4:56 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No conspiracy theorist here
But this is the kind of thing that makes people think that we are not really governed by any particular party, that the command comes from somewhere else, and that somewhere IS of this world.

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I thought voting for Obama was a protest and it was
Posted by: cori on Apr 8, 2009 6:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But now I feel we have been duped. He's on the gravey train and we can all go to hell.
Kucinich might have been better but the trouble with Nader is that not enough people voted for him and we ended up with Bush and we are hoping that Obama might be better. We'll see. So far I am not impressed. What we need are strikes, protests and people refusing to buy. Just starve the corporations out of existence. Non violent non cooperation. Don't use your credit card, don't buy a new car, eat out much less don't buy a new house, drive less, call your senators and complain as much as possible. That's what they did during Ghandi. Non violent non cooperation. If we don't buy China will go broke and government will be faced with ever growing failure. Marching in the streets these days has to be constant like in the 60's. Not just a one time demonstration. All those kids who didn't want to go to Vietnam went crazy all at once everywhere. But the kids today just bend over. fifty thousand for college - OK. No health care - oh well - make 8 per hour - guess so - always have roomates -OK. Protest has to be everywhere to work. On the campuses and in the streets, but thats not going to happen until things get really bad. Or maybe we will just decsend into 3rd worldum because people have forgotten what real Democracy is about? I feel good when I hear that corporate profits have fallen. They raped us for so many years now let them fall. Any other ideas out there? We should all insist on safety nets at the very least. Americans should not be allowed to lose their jobs and then starve and left homeless to die in the gutter - it could be you next. That's why we all need to be covered and thats what we should fight for. People have already forgotten that people fought and died for unions and now they slog off to Walmart to get shit pay - and how will we ever come back with our education in the toilet. The corporations need to learn that a prosperous society will make the richer too.

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'Change We Can Believe In': Bad to Worse
Posted by: lorenbliss on Apr 8, 2009 6:50 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Between the collaboration with the banksters Bill Moyers exposed on Friday and the expansion of secret-police power revealed here, it is now undeniable the United States has merely traded the illiterate autocracy of the Bush League for the eloquent despotism of Obamacraft. In either case the result is (more) tyranny: the only outcome possible under capitalism.

As to what Obama will do to placate the forthcoming outrage, his already proven mastery of Machiavelli and Sun Tzu suggests he’ll now shatter the Left. The question of course is how.

One possibility that looms especially large is forcible disarmament (aka “gun control”), the very issue that has served the divide-and-oppress function so well in the past -- in fact better than any issue since slavery.

By forcibly disarming the civilian population (which Holder himself has indeed already threatened), Obama will (again) split the Left into implacably hostile anti-Second-Amendment and pro-Second-Amendment factions, just as it was split in the wake of the class hatreds unleashed by the Vietnam War: the infinite contempt and malice of the draft-exempt bourgeois elite for those of us who served, and our entirely justified anger in response.

One look at the Obamaroster and the makeup of Congress itself proves the administration can impose total forcible disarmament -- popular opposition be damned -- whenever it chooses to do so.

This will leave the anti-Second Amendment zealots -- themselves mostly fanatical authoritarian pacificists -- wildly cheering the resultant imposition of compulsory victimhood and mandatory pacifism. It will also grant these self-appointed cultural executioners insufferable pride of power as agents of “change we can believe in” -- not merely bribing-to-silence any further inclination they might have to protest forthcoming Obamabetrayals, but enabling them to arrogantly and no doubt vindictively lord it over the rest of us.

Meanwhile the resurrected antagonism will disempower and ultimately isolate -- this time forever (because there is no other political option to which to turn) -- the Left’s Second Amendment advocates, who include most blue-collar or rural leftists and nearly the entire rank-and-file of organized labor.

Which is, of course, another example of Obamaperfect furtherance of class-struggle: the ruling-class-identified bourgeoisie gets its way, and the rest of us suffer not only the permanent loss of important tools of basic survival but (therefore and eventually) all right to survival itself.

Why? Such powerlessness is precisely the condition prerequisite to the formal resumption of slavery: note that full exploitation of "human capital" is the only possible way capitalism can survive the forthcoming shortages inflicted by terminal climate change and the exhaustion of the fossil fuel supply.

How many more proofs do we need that today’s United States has only one definitive purpose -- that government and governance at every level function ONLY to propagate capitalism, which means the absolute protection of the ruling class and the total subjugation of all the rest of us -- by any means deemed expedient, Constitutional or not. How many more such disclosures will it take us to realize that Obama serves the ruling class as faithfully as any of his post-Kennedy predecessors ever did. How long before we awaken? How long O how long?

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VOTE GREEN!
Posted by: Alan8 on Apr 8, 2009 6:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We told you so. You liberals should have gotten a clue when he voted for retroactive immunity for the telecom companies for wiretapping us.

You can't trust either corporate-funded party. And the Democrats think they can get away with this, and you'll still vote for them.

The Green Party accepts no corporate money, and represents the peoples' interests. Your Green vote sends a powerful message to the Democrats that they're still accountable to the people.

5% of the vote for the Green Party will qualify them for matching Federal funds. Be part of the solution.

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» RE: VOTE GREEN! Posted by: lynmarenjensen
The Oval Office Changes Everything
Posted by: AlteredStates on Apr 8, 2009 7:37 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I voted and campaigned for Obama because Bush and McCain were driving me crazy. And, I knew that in spite of what candidates say on the campaign trail, after they are elected a lot changes, especially after they step into the Oval Office.

But, (here comes the ubiquitous "but") I never thought Obama would not only enforce the Bush/Cheney cabal, but expand on it the way he just did. I know a certain amount of surveillance is necessary because the world is such a nasty place. And, now, it doesn't seem to matter who is in the Oval Office, they turn into the same old, same old, when they step over that threshold into the Oval Office.

In matters concerning the economy, again, it doesn't seem to matter who is in the Oval Office. The massive transfer of wealth continues to flow to the super rich, ruling class. And, I know that this is only the beginning, because the total exposure to all the toxic assets amount to about 70 Trillion dollars, world-wide. There just isn't enough money available to correct all of their fuck-ups.

So, what do we have to look forward to? Probably, an ever rising fascist state, where the rich will get richer and richer. And, as a result of this ever rising abuse by the state, we will probably see more and more armed insurrections, assassinations of political figures and people in authority. Then, the state will respond will murderous SWAT teams to retain "law and order" (for the "good" of the people).

If this trend continues, (and I don't see it stopping) we can expect the U.S. of A. to turn into a "Banana Republic" in about 4 or 5 years, or less, a la, El Salvador in the 1980's, with the Reagan type death squads putting down the "terrorists" (a metaphor for citizens).

I know it isn't a pretty picture, but life on planet earth never was a pretty picture - if you hadn't noticed.

Mister Optimism/Obama can't fix the economy, as much as he might think he can. This is one tiger that can't be tamed, and the "insiders" know it. That's why they are grabbing all the money they can get from Uncle Sap (taxpayers) before this flimsy house of cards collapses. The super rich have ways of protecting their wealth in ways the rest of us can't. That's why they are super rich!!! They seldom lose, and when they do, they are in a position to always find a way to manipulate the market to their advantage. After all, they are the market.

I better stop here before I get too bummed out.

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like a cult
Posted by: grkjr on Apr 8, 2009 8:47 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would seem that the obama cult is just like the bush cult... no matter what he does, there can be no wrong strong enough to admit that the man represents status--quo and thus stop supporting him. Likeable, but none-the-less naive, one who pursues war while talking peace, who sees an economy with banks "too big to fail" while talking about economic justice for the little man.. who pursues constitutional destruction while supporting "no one is above the law".. this would never have happened if we the people were not cowards.. who though knowing his "talk" was not supported by his "walk" after his nomination and he switched on so many fronts.. But, when one listens to fear and acts on that fear, one seems to end up facint what one was trying to avoid. So instead of voting for anyone else, especially the "spoiler"(nader), we ran in circles and shouted and voted out of fear for obama. We shall see if we learned anything in 2010 and 2012 when we will be able to vote out all those who voted to support this administration on so many issues... any bets that we won't send them right back to do more of the same.... maybe fear can be replaced with "doing the right thing". Do we have the time???or will the economy and war do the voting for us.

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» RE: like a cult Posted by: AlteredStates
Obama: Double-Talk Quick Change CON MAN for the MOB
Posted by: PointMan on Apr 8, 2009 11:18 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I’ve been saying Obama would lead his mindless Obama-bots into a ditch for year now. So have a few others on Alternot. The ones awake enough not to suck down the "war on terror" 9/11 Wall Street Kool-Aid were constantly told to shut up and smell the glitter glam of the Obama train run on nothing but mercenary Wall St. criminal sharks and felons.

Quick change Obama is just a hired actor put up to distract from a Police State corporate mob that is shaking the country down for all the blood money it can steal and all the power it can grab.

How stupid can Obama-bot Americans be? Most of them are still dead asleep ready to suck up the next pack of lies. Most Americans are ready to kiss this tinsel-town actor's hand no matter how much BS "war on terror" he sells, how much more of the Constitution he burns or how big he lets Wall St. jack the nation. If Dr. Martin Luther King were alive he'd never stop throwing up.

America is doomed and deserves to be.

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SATURDAY
Posted by: krock on Apr 9, 2009 1:03 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
APRIL 11TH - Nationwide PROTESTS. BE THERE.

A NEW WAY FORWARD - check them out if you haven't seen this yet.

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The Genie of American Tolitarianism is out of the Bottle
Posted by: lynmarenjensen on Apr 9, 2009 11:13 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
During the Bush II administration, the two parties colluded to let the genie of American tolitarianism out of the bottle. True, the Bushits led, but the Democrats massively failed to act as a separate branch of government. The Republicans couldn't have brought on the Patriot Act, torture, and wiretapping that we're now paying for, without the Democrats going along, without Nancy Pelosi and Howard Dean teaming up to take impeachment off the table.
The only chance to put our own tolitarianism genie even partially back in the bottle was when the Bush Baby was still in office. But because the Democrats allowed the Patriot Act and felony wiretapping to occur, and worse, facilitated it, Obama can't put that genie back in the bottle now. Neither can his Justice Department, which, during the Bush II regime, was famously turned into a machine for Republican party hacks. The Justice Dept. must uphold the law, and that includes the Patriot Act. Indicting Bush adminstration members won't change anything either.
We are living with the consequences of the Democrats' (and Republicans') failure to uphold the Constitution, and so will the next generation, and the next, and the next, and the next. The chance to turn back has passed.

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» You Ain't Shittin' Pal Posted by: AlteredStates
It may sound trite ...
Posted by: monkeywrench on Apr 9, 2009 11:45 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... and it may be a cliché, but the phrase still holds some truth: "Power corrupts, and absolute power corrupts absolutely" –– no matter who holds that power.

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If the big O does anything...
Posted by: ShrubtheWarcriminal on Apr 11, 2009 11:24 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...is will be more of nothing.

In order for the Democraps to have the stones to do anything they would have to indict themselves right along the Shrub and Co. as quiet co-conspirators...

Shrubs boys either shrewdly or by natural compliciace got the Democraps to go along with most of their war crimes with only a modest token wimper.

Therefore it ain't gonna happen.

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Same old New..vice versa
Posted by: Romantic Violence on Apr 13, 2009 7:51 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The are many intelligent folks here that voted for Obama..with all of your intelligence, what made you all 'believe' that things would 'change' for the benefit of people? Both parties are one party system with the same agenda..didn't you all know that? Or didn't you?I don't vote for this same reason. For all of those intelligent folks that did, you get what you deserve so stop complaining...

FTW

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