Rumsfeld Knew His Guys Were Torturing People to Death, Which Is a Serious Crime

Prosecuted?... when hell freezes over!

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Bush, Rumsfeld and Chaney are all War Criminals and no one wil do a damn thing about it because this country has a great love for War Criminals.

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Holder has been confirmed for what 10 days now? And you expect Obama to make an immediate move on 8 years of abuse just like that.

The new administration is setting up the process so that it can't be accuses of instigatig a witch hunt.

First steps is to pull the veil off of what happened FOI request is a perfect example. As more evidence comes to light, public opinion will force the AG to investigate - maybe appoint a Special Investigator. As that process rolls out, the usual small fry will start to co-operate in return for immunity - reduced sentencing a la Abramoff.

All things come to those who wait

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Should the crimes of treason, by the Bush/Chaney Administration, be overlooked, then these crimes of high treason will be repeated in future administrations. The Allies conducted the Nürenberg Trials (in 1945 to 1949) for several reasons:

A) To make aware that these crimes were actually committed,
B) To examine HOW these crimes were able to be committed,
C) Who committed these crimes and
D) To punish the criminals.

Should the guilty not be punished, then, their Criminal Acts would be absolved and could easily be repeated. There would not be any justice.

“The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

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Should the Bush/Chaney Administration (alleged) criminals not be prosecuted, not be brought to trial and not found guilty, then, like the Republican Ronald Reagan group, they will be glorified, deified and praised.

With ALL the evidence available: Eyewitnesses, Documents, Dead Bodies, Remnants of Death Camps, Newsreel clips, piles of clothes, piles of shoes, piles of hair, piles of eyeglasses, piles of gold teeth –COLD HARD EVIDENCE-, there are Holocaust Deniers being celebrated, glorified and believed.

So, too, these (alleged) criminals will be praised and glorified for future generations.
We will have not have learned from history –and the American society will repeat this debacle.

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The US is unlikely to bring its war criminals to trial or hand them over to an international court anytime soon. Arrogance and the belief that the US is above such things will hold sway.
However, down the years, as the financial collapse actually gets under way, when nobody will trade with you unless you front bullion first, when Mexico is having problems with US citizen wetbacks attempting to infiltrate the south in search of work that will enable them to send some money to their families, then we will see these people handed over, or taken.

Political reality will override US pride, and given the choice of starving, or handing the motley crew over, there will simply be no contest.

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Stand by for what is sure to be another disappointment doled out by the Obama fiction.

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How fitting that the Republican Revolution both began and ended with treason.

It began when Reagan's people negotiated with terrorists to defeat Jimmy Carter (unless you think the terrorists releasing the hostages on the day of Reagan's nomination was a coincidence).

The Reagan Administration went on to transfer nuclear secrets to the communist Chinese--an act which the Republicans tried to blame on Bill Clinton. They used this false accusation to call President Clinton a traitor, when the real traitor was Ronald Reagan--their best guy.

And so on, up to stealing two Presidential elections--an act of civil war which should never be forgotten--the Plame case, the war crimes, the torture.

I pray every day we will nail the bastards. But even if they slither free, the Republicans have stained their name forever.

8 Years without a Leader

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.
.......This is me reposting someone's excellent post
__________________________________
________________________________________

"Should the crimes of treason, by the Bush/Cheney Administration be overlooked,
then these crimes of high treason will be repeated in future administrations.

The Allies conducted the Nürenberg Trials (in 1945 to 1949) for several reasons:

A) To make aware that these crimes were actually committed,
B) To examine HOW these crimes were able to be committed,
C) Who committed these crimes and
D) To punish the criminals.

Should the guilty not be punished, then, their Criminal Acts would be absolved and could easily be repeated. There would not be any justice.

“The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

_________________________________________
_________________________________________

* and this WAS onother Person's comment that's worth repeating:

And Lets not forget there is a group running affairs from
behind the stage the stage may change... but the group
and the affairs are still exactly the same.
.. President Obama is NOT the magic "Fat Lady Singing" on War Crime!

... War Criminals NEVER STOP On Their Own, but must
ALWAYS BE stopped by a world who can not and will not remain silent!!

Lets raise our voices beyond the rafters, the mountaintops
.. to the valleys from sea to sea, coast to coast, and around the world.

Finding comments worth repeating, saving them in cliff notebook,
and reposting them where ever and when ever it might be proper.

and if you find a comment short enough for a bumper sticker,
make it into a Giant BANNER and hold it near a rush hour traffic.

Protesting treason is not treason.
War Crimes and allowing war Criminals to grow and continue is!
TREASON AGAINST HUMANITY.
_____________________________________________
_________________________________________
____________________________________________
.
.........See How Easy it is?
It is very easy to counter-propaganda the War Criminals.
You do NOT need a $100,000 Mainstream Media outlet(whose reputation for being trustworthy is now over).
.
-It's Easy To Counter-Propaganda
__________________________________

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I don't have any confidence the current telecom-imunity administration could even blow its own nose with Rahm the bomb as a "chief" of staff.

Prosecute Rumsfailed.... Who's the funnyguy who pondered that one?

WE ARE TALKING CHUMP "change" !!!

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The FISA crimes will be untouchable for criminal prosecution on March 11th.

If that date passes without indictments, you can kiss the prosecutions good bye.

As hopeless as it is, I signed the petition; did you?

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse. That principle is applied every day in courts around this country just as it was applied at Nirenberg. Perhaps some attorney reading this can explain why this principle might not apply at to officials in the U.S., but it seems to me that it really should not matter what Rumsfield or Bush knew in deciding their guilt about actions that they took. Probably knowledge should be a factor in deciding punishment.

Even if a death occurred as a result of his actions but Rumsfield was not aware of that death and somehow this means that he is not legally responsible for the death, if only torture occurred because of his action he still must be prosecuted for only causing torture.

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Ignorance of the law is no excuse. That principle is applied every day in courts around this country just as it was applied at Nirenberg. Perhaps some attorney reading this can explain why this principle might not apply at to officials in the U.S., but it seems to me that it really should not matter what Rumsfield or Bush knew in deciding their guilt about actions that they took. Probably knowledge should be a factor in deciding punishment.

Even if a death occurred as a result of his actions but Rumsfield was not aware of that death and somehow this means that he is not legally responsible for the death, if only torture occurred because of his action he still must be prosecuted for only causing torture.

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War crimes? Definitely! But let's not forget the crimes they committed against the American people! Like their constant attempts to undo the Constitution!

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This asshole is not trying to protect your privacy; he's trying to steal your identity.

If you click on his "Privacy Center" hyperlink, the server the link points to will install a keylogger on your computer, which is used to steal your credit card number, SSN, etc.

Please, report the comment to Alternet's staff.

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What's it going to take and when are the American people going to realize that we can't trust anyone in any position of authority. The elections are rigged the judges are crooked, the military and police are mindless tools used to oppress the masses. We need to start over. Completely over. It would be nice if we could do it peacefully. But I doubt that will be effective. We fear change, even when it's good for us. The staggered elections and term lengths guarantees there will always be some cancer cells left in government. Stop worrying about these people, they don't give a damn about you.

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Part of me wants to see a bona-fide commission formed to ascertain the cause for the actions our nation chose during the recent Bush presidency. I fear it will be nothing more than a witch hunt. If it is our intent to place blame then we can honestly make that assessment quite easily as all we need to do is to look in any mirror and see the face being reflected back at us. WE are ultimately accountable and responsible we have no one else to blame though it would sure feel good if we could.

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The Civil Rights Division shares enforcement responsibility under some of these statutes with the Criminal Division, generally depending upon whether the matter involves discrimination or intimidation on account of race, or, in the case of those statutes dealing with obstruction of justice, relates to civil rights litigation. See 28 C.F.R. §§ 0.50 and 0.55. The Civil Rights Division has responsibility under 18 U.S.C. § 1001 with respect to false official statements made in connection with alleged violations of federal civil rights statutes.
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Under Title 42, U.S.C., Section 1997, the Department of Justice has the ability to initiate civil actions against mental HOSPITALs, Retardation Facilities, Jails, Prisons, NURSING FACILITIES T42CFR409.33, and juvenile detention facilities when there are Allegations of Systemic Derivations [ 1999 HHS T42CFR417.1 denial of Covered T42CFR409.33 Claims and OPM T5CFR890.105 denial of Covered T42CFR409.33 Claims, to force ~ fraud by fright white collar crime ~ illegal HCFA State Medicaid T42CFR409.33 Kickback Conversions ~ eligibility Poor T18CFR286CRIME ] of the constitutional rights of institutionalized persons.
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U.S. Constitution: Fourteenth Amendment
Fourteenth Amendment - Rights Guaranteed Privileges and Immunities of Citizenship,
Due Process and Equal Protection
Amendment Text | Annotations
Section. 1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
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TITLE 42--PUBLIC HEALTH CHAPTER IV-[ HCFA ]-HEALTH CARE FINANCING ADMINISTRATION, [ DHHS ] DEPARTMENT OF HEALTH AND HUMAN SERVICES PART 409-- HOSPITAL INSURANCE BENEFITS --Table of Contents Subpart D-[ Federal ]-Requirements for Coverage of Post-hospital SNF [ NURSING FACILITY ] Care Sec. 409.33 Examples of skilled nursing [ Medically Necessary ] and rehabilitation services. ~~ To DENY this SERVICE [ systematic deprivation HHS T42CFR417.1 adverse determination ], is called an ANTI-Dumping Violation
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CRIMINAL PENALTIES FOR ACTS INVOLVING FEDERAL HEALTH CARE PROGRAMS SEC. 1128B. [42 U.S.C. 1320a-7b] DETERMINING RIGHTS
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TITLE 18 > PART I > CHAPTER 13 > § 242 Prev | Next § 242. Deprivation of rights under color of law
Whoever, under color of any law, statute, ordinance, regulation, or custom, willfully subjects any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth, Possession, or District to the deprivation of any rights, privileges, or immunities secured or protected by the Constitution or laws of the United States, or to different punishments, pains, or penalties, on account of such person being an alien, or by reason of his color, or race, than are prescribed for the punishment of citizens, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than one year, or both; and if bodily injury results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include the use, attempted use, or threatened use of a dangerous weapon, explosives, or fire, shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to commit aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, shall be fined under this title, or imprisoned for any term of years or for life, or both, or may be sentenced to death.
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Region 5 HCFA : Illinois, Indiana, Michigan, Minnesota, Ohio and Wisconsin

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Health Care Fraud Victims: Department of Justice prosecutors ( U.S. Attorneys ) and investigators ( Office of Inspector Generals ~ FBI ) shall ensure that 'Victims Rights' and Services under FEDERAL STATUTES and administrative guidelines WILL BE ENFORCED for the benefit of Victims of Health Care Fraud ( Anti-Dumping and Anti-Kickback Violations HHS OIG T42CFR417.1 mis-prison of T18CFR24CRIMES, T18CFR242CRIME color of law ], including provisions concerning notice to victims about case and offender status, appropriate consultation with victims, advocacy of restitution for victims, and enforcement of restitution awards for Victims BY the Government: T18CFR242CRIME color of law.
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JANUARY 2008
A Vehicle to Avoid A Government Investigation HHS T42CFR417.1 Alternative Dispute Resolution T18CFR371CRIME.
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National Governors Association ~ Alternate Dispute Resolution
T42CFR417.1 grievance procedure, Adverse Determination ~ used to force illegal HCFA State Medicaid Kickback Conversions color of law T18CFR371CRIME
January 28, 2008 letter (from NGA executive director Ray Scheppach) to U.S. Department of Health and Human Services Secretary Michael Leavitt requesting that HHS rescind the proposed rule amending Departmental REGULATIONS GOVERNING ADMINISTRATIVE REVIEW ~ by the Departmental Appeals Board (DAB). RE: Proposed Rulemaking: Revisions to Procedures for the Departmental Appeals Board and Other Departmental Hearings ~ 'Dispute Resolution' ( T42CFR417.1 grievance procedure, denial of covered claims misprison of a felony anti-dumping violation ) ~ For example, litigation briefs, memos, Emails, and other types of " informational documents interpreting STATUTES and published REGULATIONS " [ SSA 1128b Consumer Protection due process of law T18CFR24CRIMES Civil and Criminal Rights ] WOULD be deemed to HAVE equivalent AUTHORITY to the statute and regulations themselves. Governors OPPOSE the proposed rule [ T18CFR242CRIME ] and request that the department retain existing ( T42CFR417.1 adverse determinations misprison of T18CFR24CRIMES white collar crime ) DAB policies that provide states with the assurance of an impartial and independent dispute resolution process ~ RICO willfully failed to keep individuals from harm.
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Sincerely,
All ENTITLED Federal Employee Health Beneficiaries & the General Public in Region 5 HCFA, who are being criminally denied HHS T42CFR417.1 Existing ( Federal State Private ) HMO Health Insurance Coverage, illegally billed for HMO denied covered claims and forced into HCFA State Medicaid Programs for the POOR. Title18CFR1001Crime. 1998 still pending 2009 denial of civil and criminal rights - reporting waste fraud and abuse - Color of Law T18CFR242CRIME

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A tragic but consistent historical fact is that those who commit the greatest crimes are rarely held accountable.

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Hear! Hear! You told us; now tell HIM.

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If Obama was really serious about investigating the Dubya gang, the corporate polls would be suddenly saying that 71% don't support it. Sorry folks but Obama or Mccain, all you got was an 8th Raygun term !

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How many were killed?
How did they die?
Where did this happen?

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Lofty values my ass. America has been invading countries and killing people with impunity for decades.

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I'm not going to argue the legalities or morality of the Viet Nam War but every one of these guys, including Bush, found a safe place to hide out when their country was embroiled in that "splendid little war". Now I have to listen to Dick Cheney talk about how tough he is. He talks about how none of his money came from the government when his company would be in the toilet without no-bid contracts. They send other people and other people's children to trumped up wars and to torture people to death. I can't say it enough, these guys have done more to destroy the U.S.A. than all the jihadists put together. It's like watching Stallone play Rambo or Rocky. They are just punk ass whores.

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"Just yesterday the ACLU got it's hands on a truly smoking gun..."

Should read: "Just yesterday the ACLU got its hands on a truly smoking gun..."

The contraction "it's" refers to the two words "it is" The word "its" is an entirely different word.

This is a common mistake but it shouldn't be committed by a professional writer.

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All who wish to not refer to Dubya by name shall be allowed to say "Great Immunicator". Or "that SOB". "He Who Leads Us In Weaponized Prayer" is just too long. My nickname for Rumsfeld is too long and too broad to refer to only one appointee from the era of "the 43rd". "Dead From the Neck Up Walking".

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This is one of the best music videos you will see..very poignant to torture and war crimes

AmBushed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2ypsEmg9yOs&fmt=22
or
http://vimeo.com/2845340 (Better quality)

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And just look at the way Obama's keeping the same old folks from the Bush administration. This is even worse than what a lot of disillusioned and reluctant voters who chose Obama in the end expected. At this rate, Obama will make Jimmy Carter, Harry Truman, and LBJ look like single term success stories !

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If the Bushco criminals can play hide the wienie for four years, President Barack Obama will be history. Instead, we could jail 45,000 Bush Administration officials and hold each one there until he incriminates three of his fellows.
My bet is that we can bag and tag the lot of them.

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Until then, we follow the rule of law.

For better (for the most part, historically), and often, worse.

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"During the Bush years Americans the boogeyman used to keep Americans cowed was the real or imagined threat of imminent terrorist attack."

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Sure, lets go after Bush and Cheney for war crimes, then we can go after every member of Congress for their illegal actions, they are politicians so I'm sure there will be something.

In four or eight years when Obama is no longer the President, then we can go after the Obama Administration for things they did.

Everyone wanted the Bush Administration to protect us post 9-11, however people do not have the stomach for what it takes. Had the Bush Administration not done what it took, he they would have be judged for that as well.

Wake up America, we can't have it both ways. If only we lived in a perfect world.....

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Wow, I guess that means only 29% of Americans are idiots. Thats much less than I thought! LOL


John
Privacy Center

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If you miss The Jeff Farias Show live tonight, between 6pm-9pmEST, don't worry!

catch the podcast, generally available before midnight.

wanna chat about it? call 800.385.1566
===
Tues.17.Feb.09: Guests & Topics

We spoke with Wolfgang Kaleck, General Secretary of the European Center for Constitutional and Human Rights e.V. (ECCHR, long-time president (2000-2008) of the progressive Republican Lawyer’s Association (RAV) and former vice-president and general secretary of European Democratic Lawyers (see http://www.aed-eda.com), has been working in the field of national and international human rights for the past ten years. He has worked closely with Amnesty International, CCR and Human Rights Watch on cases regarding Germans disappeared in Argentina, the detainees in Abu Ghraib and Guantanamo, and the former Uzbek Minister of the Interior.
Together with CCR he filed two lawsuits in Germany against former US Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld and other high-ranking members of the US administration and military for gross violations of international law in regard to human rights abuses in Abu Ghraib. Although the suits were dismissed by courts of first instance, they stimulated positive discussions in Germany and elsewhere about command responsibility and the modern-day significance of the Nuremberg precedents.

At 5 PMest Dennis Hof - Moonlite Bunny Ranch, on the topic of privacy, vice & representative social governance.

At 6 PMest Safwan Javed, Wide Mouth Mason drummer responds to the introduction of the controversial Canadian DMCA."
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOBLExSiaDY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UOCyJDDTWxA
Did you think this issue isn't about Americans? Think again!: RIAA Takes Over DOJ

We spoke with Percy Schmeiser, who stood up to Monsanto abuses in Canada.

We also spoke with Dr. Vandana Shiva, a world-renowned environmental leader and thinker. Director of the Research Foundation on Science, Technology, and Ecology, she is the author of many books, including:
-'Water Wars: Pollution, Profits, and Privatization' (South End Press, 2001),
-"Biopiracy: The Plunder of Nature and Knowledge" (South End Press, 1997),
-"'Monocultures of the Mind" (Zed, 1993),
-"The Violence of the Green Revolution" (Zed, 1992), and
-"'Staying Alive" (St. Martin's Press, 1989).
Dr. Shiva is a leader in The International Forum on Globalization, along with Ralph Nader and Jeremy Rifkin. She addressed the World Trade Organization summit in Seattle, 1999, as well as the recent World Economic Forum in Melbourne, 2000. In 1993, Shiva won the Alternative Nobel Peace Prize (the Right Livelihood Award). The founder of Navdanya ("nine seeds"), a movement promoting diversity and use of native seeds, she also set up the Research Foundation for Science, Technology, and Ecology in her mother's cowshed in 1997.
Its studies have validated the ecological value of traditional farming and been instrumental in fighting destructive development projects in India.

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if it ever existed, has ceased to be decades ago. It's a myth fabricated for comfort and to smokescreen the terrors inflicted the world over for material gains..

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I have signed several partitions urging the administration and congress to investigate and punish these wrong doers, but while I post this stuff on my blog, I seldom participate in the comments because so many comments are so insanely stupid.......Some of these doom Sayers really piss me off hoping the US dollar collapses and the US fails economically, what are they thinking? Study the 30's and see as bad as it was here, it was worse in Europe and this time it will be worse in Asia and Europe. I remember when the Japanese business model was the envy of the world and now they have been in hard economic times for 15 years and it is getting worse. We in the US has certainly damaged our world standing the last 8 years and Vietnam before that, but lets look at the broader scope of the past 100 years. Additionally, G Bush spent more money in Africa than the rest of the world put together fighting AIDS. So, lets ease of off the US for awhile and give this country a chance to return to sane economic and foreign policies.________________:-)

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If you're hoping to regain the USA's reputation as a "nation ruled by Laws", in my view, you're probably flogging a dead horse. ONLY Americans ever believed the promises implicit in their constitution (and cast around for "proof" - like labelling economic migrants looking for food as co-believers in the great dream, who had "come to America looking for freedom".)

This argument about Bush is tainted beyond redemption. Kind of like deciding ONLY to put Nazis on trial for any crimes they committed after 1943. If an activity is illegal, then it's illegal PERIOD. Not just when the previous administration carried it out. You can't JUST prosecute GW Bush, and at the same time allow crimes carried out under Reagan, Nixon, or even Clinton be ignored. If an activity is illegal - and carried out in a nation that's REALLY governed by law - then it has to be investigated and prosecuted. Regardless of the political leanings of the leadership at the time it happened.

Reading all the posts on this page, I see absolutely NO inclination to investigate "crime" BECAUSE IT'S A CRIME. I just see endless howls that a very specific category of very recent crimes should be investigated. And friends.. that just ain't good enough! Far from restoring America's credibility... it just damages it even more. Gaining a reputation as a nation that carefully exploits prosecution to attack political enemies does little more than confirm what the rest of the world already knew.

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