COMMENTS: 134
Facing Foreclosure? Don't Leave. Squat.
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Marcy Kaptur of Ohio is the longest-serving Democratic congresswoman in U.S. history. Her district, stretching along the shore of Lake Erie from west of Cleveland to Toledo, faces an epidemic of home foreclosures and 11.5 percent unemployment. That heartland region, the Rust Belt, had its heart torn out by the North American Free Trade Agreement, with shuttered factories and struggling family farms. Kaptur led the fight in Congress against NAFTA. Now, she is recommending a radical foreclosure solution from the floor of the U.S. Congress: "So I say to the American people, you be squatters in your own homes. Don't you leave."
She criticizes the bailout's failure to protect homeowners facing foreclosure. Her advice to "squat" cleverly exploits a legal technicality within the subprime-mortgage crisis. These mortgages were made, then bundled into securities and sold and resold repeatedly, by the very Wall Street banks that are now benefiting from TARP (the Troubled Asset Relief Program). The banks foreclosing on families very often can't locate the actual loan note that binds the homeowner to the bad loan. "Produce the note," Kaptur recommends those facing foreclosure demands of the banks.
"[P]ossession is nine-tenths of the law," Rep. Kaptur told me. "Therefore, stay in your property. Get proper legal representation … [if] Wall Street cannot produce the deed nor the mortgage audit trail … you should stay in your home. It is your castle. It's more than a piece of property. … Most people don't even think about getting representation, because they get a piece of paper from the bank, and they go, 'Oh, it's the bank,' and they become fearful, rather than saying: 'This is contract law. The mortgage is a contract. I am one party. There is another party. What are my legal rights under the law as a property owner?' "If you look at the bad paper, if you look at where there's trouble, 95 to 98 percent of the paper really has moved to five institutions: JPMorgan Chase, Bank of America, Wachovia, Citigroup and HSBC. They have this country held by the neck."
Kaptur recommends calling the local Legal Aid Society, Bar Association or 888-995-4673 for legal assistance.
The onerous duty of physically evicting people and dragging their possessions to the curb typically falls on the local sheriff. Kaptur conditions her squatting advice, saying, "If it's a sheriff's eviction, if it's reached that point, that is almost impossible." Unless the sheriff refuses to carry out the eviction, as Sheriff Warren C. Evans of Wayne County, Mich., has decided to do. Wayne County, including Detroit, has had more than 46,000 foreclosures in the past two years.
After reviewing TARP, Evans determined that home foreclosures would conflict with TARP's goal of reducing foreclosures, and that he'd be violating the law by denying foreclosed homeowners the chance at potential federal assistance. "I cannot in clear conscience allow one more family to be put out of their home until I am satisfied they have been afforded every option they are entitled to under the law to avoid foreclosure," he said.
Bruce Marks of the Boston-based Neighborhood Assistance Corp. of America is taking the fight to the homes of the banks' CEOs. Last October, as the TARP bailout was shaping up to benefit Wall Street and not Main Street, NACA blockaded the entrance of mortgage giant Fannie Mae until it got a meeting with executives there. Now NACA is working with Fannie Mae to restructure mortgages. Marks is organizing a nationwide, three-day "Predator's Tour," going to the CEOs' homes to demand meetings with them. He told me: "This is what we're going to do with thousands of homeowners, go to their (the CEOs') home and say: 'I want you to meet my family. I want you to see who you're foreclosing on.' … If they're going to take our homes, we're going to go to their homes, and we're going to tell them, 'No more.' "
Before the inauguration, Larry Summers, the chair of President Obama's National Economic Council, promised congressional Democratic leaders to "implement smart, aggressive policies to reduce the number of preventable foreclosures by helping to reduce mortgage payments for economically stressed but responsible homeowners, while also reforming our bankruptcy laws and strengthening existing housing initiatives."
According to a report by RealtyTrac, "Foreclosure filings were reported on 2.3 million U.S. properties in 2008, an increase of 81 percent from 2007 and up 225 percent from 2006." As the financial crisis deepens, people facing foreclosure should take Kaptur's advice and tell their bankers, "Produce the note."
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Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jayzer on Feb 6, 2009 12:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too bad I haven't heard anyone address how this situation also affects renters: even if someone who has been renting all of his or her life is not intially affected, when the time comes that he or she wants to move on to another house or apartment, the increasing numbers of people whose homes have been foreclosed and have been successfully evicted will make rental housing that much more scarce and as it is, affordable rentals in a LOT of cities (especially NYC, where I live) are very difficult to come by.
This is one aspect of the financial and housing crisis that has yet to be examined by the media for the most part. If no one in the media is talking about it, think of how much longer it will take for anyone at any level of government to do anything about it.
Squatting for many of us may be our only option also, but if recent history (in the Tompkins Square Park neighborhood of lower Manhattan, for example) is any guide, things could get seriously ugly.
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» RE: Your right about the seriously ugly, but there is court case precedence....
Posted by: EncinoM
» That is NOT the cases I am talking about, sorry.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Why Is the Government Hell-Bent on Rewarding Greed, Incompetence and Narcissism?
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Why Is the Government Hell-Bent on Rewarding Greed, Incompetence and Narcissism?
Posted by: Ratskii
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Posted by: Evelyn on Feb 6, 2009 7:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well, I see the military has successfully attracted the mentally ill.....
Posted by: Prophit
» You're no Libertarian
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: You're no Libertarian
Posted by: EncinoM
» Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You're no Libertarian
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Honky... sucking off the government teat!
Posted by: Quannah
» Yeah, Blame the Borrowers
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» RE: Yeah, Blame the Borrowers
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Yeah, Blame the Borrowers
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Are you aware?
Posted by: madmax427
» Darwin award. LOL. Sir! Yes, sir! n/m
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Are you aware?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Are you aware?
Posted by: peacefullaim1
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Posted by: Suzon on Feb 6, 2009 3:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The present US land grab was made possible when (1) variable interest rates on mortgages were introduced, (2) mortgage loans were made easier to get and (3) bankruptcy law became biased toward creditors instead of protecting the individual's home.
All three of these ideas made the rich richer in the UK and English lawyers love to export the tricks of their trade to other countries. Whenever there is regime change you'll see the legal fat cats boarding planes.
Law has been used for criminal purposes so the sheriff (like bailiffs, another English legacy) has good grounds for refusing to evict.
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» Actually its not the lawyers that export their tricks, its the....
Posted by: Prophit
» English judges are almost all former barristers trained to take a line and defend it, not
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: Actually its not the lawyers that export their tricks, its the....
Posted by: Livemike
» Government has nothing to do with that.... the Federal REserve has....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Government has nothing to do with that.... the Federal REserve has....
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: credit card rebellion..a better idea...
Posted by: MausMasher54
» RE: credit card rebellion..a better idea...OOPes....
Posted by: MausMasher54
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Posted by: rickiey on Feb 6, 2009 4:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, the recommendation of this article, is that you become a liar. Forget being a good person, to hell with right and wrong, its the house that you WANT to live in, just because you haven't paid for it, doesn't mean you shouldn't have it.
SO turn yourself into a common thief, and hope that you can exploit a loophole in bookkeeping to keep that which you didn't pay for, because it is what you WANT.
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» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: ellie
» "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: Livemike
» The clash of titans: stupid, nasty greed versus stupid, nasty greed.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: Livemike
» Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: jrmart
» Actually, the borrower on subprime no income documentation loans....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: madmax427
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: rickiey
» The Real Common Thieves Are The Banks
Posted by: cherylholmes
» RE: The Real Common Thieves Are The Banks
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: rickiey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kegbot1 on Feb 6, 2009 5:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are putting yourself squarely on the side of evil. I have NO compunction in hurting a bank or one of these mortgage companies - they richly deserve it. The average person is not a lawyer and if you've ever tried to read one of these so-called agreements, you'll see they're loaded with so much boiler plate language that even competent attorneys have problems interpreting them.
And when the average person who had been shut out of home ownership for so long in this country is finally offered, perhaps for the only time in their lives, that chance it is no wonder that so many took it.
And when the corporate media bombards people all the time on the benefits, prestige and security in owning their own home, why are we surprised? These people did what the money masters told them to do. People were set up and now they are being knocked down by these same evil entities that you are defending.
I would like you, all of you rugged individualists and defenders of the brave banking class to go and watch an eviction. Go ahead - look into the eyes of the families being thrown out of their homes - thousands of them. And then lecture them how stupid and greedy they were to DARE think they could have a piece of the so-called 'American dream.'
It has nothing to do with being a "good person" unless you only consider the capitalist class "good people." I guess for some they so love their masters that they will defend them at all costs.
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» RE: To all the ruthless and cruel commenting here
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: To all the ruthless and cruel commenting here
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: To all the ruthless and cruel commenting here
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
» Rickiey - you seem to forget this issue
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: ickiey - you seem to forget this issue
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
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Posted by: Jasonix on Feb 6, 2009 5:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It shows how evil our current system is - the average person facing hardship in the U.S. will be much better off if the government fails. To survive when that happens, we need to somehow resurrect local communities and group bonds. That will be the real challenge. We've all grown up in a time when families are scattered across different states and when we only associate with people we like - the only people we deal with involuntarily are our co-workers, whom we hate and get away from the second we punch our time-cards. Now, we have to bond with our neighbors, most of whom we don't even know or have any desire to know. But we have to form allegiances with these people - together we'll grow food in the spaces that used to be our yards, together we'll shoot guns at those who threaten us, etc. In a best case scenario, truly small towns in places like northern New England might be able to come together in their town halls and function on some kind of town-level. I don't have high hopes for any place with a population above 10,000.
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» RE: It's a good idea - you might be able to outlast government's ability to function
Posted by: madmax427
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 6, 2009 5:47 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» Pardon. I didn't realize banks were going after the things folks...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» What you just described is not how it works..... the bankers ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What you just described is not how it works..... the bankers ....
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: What you just described is not how it works..... the bankers ....
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Better! If your neighbor has a better home that you'd like to have...
Posted by: peacefullaim1
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Posted by: canary131 on Feb 6, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, real estate isn't like stocks. All people need a place to sleep, not everyone needs stock. So, regular people got caught up.
I remember reading FOR YEARS about how banks were allowing people to get loans with inadequate documentation. That is a BANK issue. People lie, especially where money is involved. Banks should have known that, but they were too busy raking in the big bucks.
So looking at motivation -- for *most* people (not all) they simply wanted a home to live in and raise their families. For banks -- they wanted MONEY, and allowed the current situation to develop. As between these 2, I choose to side with the PEOPLE rather than the greedy, elite banks.
Why are banks too big to fail, but not people???
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» Hahaha, aren't you even a little embarrassed at your ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» That's well and good, until someone writes you a hot check...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: aptdam on Feb 6, 2009 5:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. buy another house before you file foreclosure on your present home. you will receive a $15,000.00 incentive for doing so. After you foreclose on your present home, you will be be given tax debt relief!
yes, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.
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» Is this legal?
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: Is this legal?
Posted by: aptdam
» Do you have a link to that program????
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Do you have a link to that program????
Posted by: aptdam
» RE: Do you have a link to that program????
Posted by: DavidGT
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Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Feb 6, 2009 6:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ikonoklast on Feb 6, 2009 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sheriff Evans is on the right track here and his justification is sound. I'm sure when the time comes for reelection the people of Wayne County will show their support.
Let's start on the real work: making sure laws are written for the benefit of the public and getting rid of legislators who work against our common interest.
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» What is unjust...
Posted by: EncinoM
» I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Sheriff Evans has the right idea!
Posted by: sal sazonada
» RE: Only one problem with that and the ReThugees are Ecstatic..
Posted by: MausMasher54
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Posted by: Prophit on Feb 6, 2009 9:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 6, 2009 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jwverez on Feb 6, 2009 12:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wolfgangmo on Feb 7, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I once worked with an military reserve officer who was another right wing bastard. He was ex-marine and he liked to tell this story about when he was stationed as a guard at camp david in the 90's. He said that most marines hated democrats and President Clinton specifically. They didn't like the "cuts" that happened under President Clinton and one way they "got back" at him was to take Chelsea's teddy bear and wipe it on their asses when they got the chance.
He repeated this story to anyone who had the misfortune to be assigned to work with him and most people would just grit their teeth and ust get through their shift until I was assigned with him. In front of a ton of other officers and other witnesses I told him that he was a disgrace to the marines, and to his country.
He sputtered and demanded that I apologize. I refused and explained that he had disrespected his uniform, disrespected the office of the president and had done so while on duty to protect a little girl. by abusing that little girls teddy bear and that he didn't even have the guts to stand up for what he believed in, but had to pick on a kid.
I told this story because your posts remind me of him.
The number one reason for foreclosure is unexpected medical expenses and not being able to pay a loan from day one. And the shared top reasons for this is either that they didn't have coverage, or that their coverage decided to just not pay. Frankly I have never met a bookie who didn't cover a bet, but insurance companies do it all day, every day.
For a guy in the military, you sure shoot at the wrong target a lot.
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» RE: the number one reason for foreclosure in america is not what Rush says.
Posted by: peacefullaim1
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Posted by: gar1948 on Feb 6, 2009 8:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's say that when you bought your house, the appraisal came in at $100,000. You put 5% ($5,000) down. That means you have to get a $95,000 mortgage on a $100,000 house.
You live there for two years making payments which don't really affect the principle owed much because most of it goes for interest, but lets say it gives you another $500 in equity. So, now, you owe $94,500 on a $100,000 house.
And then, you lose your job or something and can no longer make the payments. Foreclosure proceeding are started. By the time all the fees and accrued interest on the missed payments are charged against your mortgage, it could be well over the initial cost of the house by the time you are finally thrown out. Let's say the final mortgage comes to $102,000.
Now, you are homeless, out of a job, and tax time rolls around. Since you were "forgiven" $102,000 on a house that only appraised at $100,000, you have a "net gain" or income of $2,000 which is taxable! And that is what will be reported to the IRS on a 1099 form by your friendly mortgage company.
The scenario could be much worse depending on the reported value of the house by the mortgage company. Let's say they have the house reappraised, because the market is so depressed, and it only appraises for $75,000. Now, you are being "forgiven" a debt of $102,000 dollars on a house that is only worth $75,000, so you have a "net gain" of $27,000 and every cent of it is taxable as income!
How do I know this? Because I was caught in it two years ago.
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» Thats close but not exactly right......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Thats close but not exactly right......
Posted by: aptdam
» RE: Thats close but not exactly right......
Posted by: gar1948
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Posted by: agape on Feb 6, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You are right about most of that.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
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Posted by: DaBear on Feb 6, 2009 11:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amy and The good Rep from Ohio need to fucking live down here at the bottom before they start giving people advice. It's the fault of the rich owning class shitheads at the top. ALL OF IT. Until the police are de-militarized, squatting is a really dangerous thing to do, especially if you ain't lilly white...
1789.
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» RE: Telling people to squat is easy for someone NOT facing foreclosure to say
Posted by: monkeywrench
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Posted by: jwverez on Feb 6, 2009 11:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At a time when all homeowners facing foreclosure for various reasons are coming under fire and some are mistaken as greedy wannabes, I'm glad that my next door family didn't have to make it to the hate list. After all the trouble they went through to climb up that ladder, the last thing they needed was an unanticipated accident followed by discrimination to shatter their lives.
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» RE: I'm glad I saved a young man and his family from making it to the hate list of "freeloaders".
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: I'm glad I saved a young man and his family from making it to the hate list of "freeloaders".
Posted by: jwverez
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Posted by: EncinoM on Feb 6, 2009 1:56 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, a federal court in Iowa (so this ruling, for now only applies to Iowa), held that a bank that failed to produce an assignment of a Mortgage had no standing to bring a foreclosure action. The assignment is the document by which the original lender asigns its rights to a third party. This is not the same as a mortgage or a deed, both of which, in many states are filed with the county clerks office, and the courts want the a certified copy of the clerk's record. Additionally, the home owner is not free and clear, the note holder can or what ever party can prove it has standing can still commence a foreclosure action.
Like the various tax avoidance websites, Rep. Kapture has taken a small iota of truth and buried it in legal misunderstanding.
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 6, 2009 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Feb 6, 2009 2:51 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is "Notting Hill" Staring that Rather Good Looking American Actress - I Forget Her Name
The Real World
Is a company started off by Peter Gabriel
He started off bringing Musicians from all over the World to Play Live in England 27 Years ago
And my wife and I missed the first one at Sheppton Mallet
However we went to the Genesis Re-union at Milton Keynes to pay off all his massive debts
And we have met some Completely Phenomenal Musicians at WOMAD since and have already got our tickets for this year's Festival
Wake Up AMERICA
The World Of Music Arts and Dance
You are Getting Left Behind
Bye
Tony
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» RE: The Musicians Of Hawkwind Wrote Masters Of The Universe Living in Squats in Notting Hill
Posted by: EncinoM
» Sure it was babble, but he might have a point under all that rubble.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Feb 6, 2009 6:29 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weslen1 on Feb 6, 2009 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Feb 7, 2009 1:57 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: SIST and KEEP YOUR HOME
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: SIST and KEEP YOUR HOME
Posted by: peacefullaim1
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Posted by: aeonpi on Feb 11, 2009 9:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we step out and off the Corporate Grid and began to do what our ancestors did. You know what we found... we found laws still in effect ( but secretly hidden beyond way to much to read) that allowed us the right to become one with our land, with our selves and with our Higher powers. We found truths hidden in articles that most would have given up on finding. We continued to know end and over again. Until we discovered our pot of gold.
Now that we have ridden the rainbow and risen up from the ashes. We are confident that the solutions we offer are for the highest good. What makes us confident and the difference between us and those in the past. Is, One when you pay your bill, there are no more bills like that. Two, the land becomes a certifiable habitat. Three, We have all peoples health in mind and so we have created packages that include your food (permaculture, horticulture, agriculture-{(*really a thing of the past, in its current state)} and homesteading) We have also consider other things like: emotional, spiritual, physical and mental health. We have professionals ready to donate some time to get our people back on track. Fourth, We are always open to barter, trade and exchange (see green society link on my site). We actually prefer it over the falling dollar. Or any other make shift currency.
Finally, The home you get will be yours, with you in mind (fung shui ahead of time). It will become your sacred space where you leave your worries behind and become centered and balanced. Ready to head out into the challenges of a new day.
We are Renewing America. Solar, Wind, Water powered homes and vehicles. Conversion kits that work and are stood behind. We have addressed issues like water shortage (our Air2Water machine lessens this burden). No one should ever have to suffer in or from nature. So we have Geodesic domes that give added protection against hurricanes, tornado's and some even say provide safety in a fire.
We Live by the Motto: "IN EACH OTHER WE TRUST"
Come See Aeonpi.com
Blessings to you and your Future Well Being
:AEON-PI-PHLO
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Feb 28, 2009 12:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what makes people so submissive that they would willingly leave there home for a piece of paper that in itself is worthless?
It boggles my mind that it must come down to squatters rights!
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Posted by: Jayzer on Feb 6, 2009 12:43 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Too bad I haven't heard anyone address how this situation also affects renters: even if someone who has been renting all of his or her life is not intially affected, when the time comes that he or she wants to move on to another house or apartment, the increasing numbers of people whose homes have been foreclosed and have been successfully evicted will make rental housing that much more scarce and as it is, affordable rentals in a LOT of cities (especially NYC, where I live) are very difficult to come by.
This is one aspect of the financial and housing crisis that has yet to be examined by the media for the most part. If no one in the media is talking about it, think of how much longer it will take for anyone at any level of government to do anything about it.
Squatting for many of us may be our only option also, but if recent history (in the Tompkins Square Park neighborhood of lower Manhattan, for example) is any guide, things could get seriously ugly.
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» RE: Your right about the seriously ugly, but there is court case precedence....
Posted by: EncinoM
» That is NOT the cases I am talking about, sorry.....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Why Is the Government Hell-Bent on Rewarding Greed, Incompetence and Narcissism?
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Why Is the Government Hell-Bent on Rewarding Greed, Incompetence and Narcissism?
Posted by: Ratskii
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Posted by: Evelyn on Feb 6, 2009 7:13 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» Well, I see the military has successfully attracted the mentally ill.....
Posted by: Prophit
» You're no Libertarian
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: You're no Libertarian
Posted by: EncinoM
» Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Aaaah, it finally comes out.... encino is a republican....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: You're no Libertarian
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Honky... sucking off the government teat!
Posted by: Quannah
» Yeah, Blame the Borrowers
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» RE: Yeah, Blame the Borrowers
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: Yeah, Blame the Borrowers
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Are you aware?
Posted by: madmax427
» Darwin award. LOL. Sir! Yes, sir! n/m
Posted by: LMNOP
» RE: Are you aware?
Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: Are you aware?
Posted by: peacefullaim1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Suzon on Feb 6, 2009 3:57 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The present US land grab was made possible when (1) variable interest rates on mortgages were introduced, (2) mortgage loans were made easier to get and (3) bankruptcy law became biased toward creditors instead of protecting the individual's home.
All three of these ideas made the rich richer in the UK and English lawyers love to export the tricks of their trade to other countries. Whenever there is regime change you'll see the legal fat cats boarding planes.
Law has been used for criminal purposes so the sheriff (like bailiffs, another English legacy) has good grounds for refusing to evict.
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» Actually its not the lawyers that export their tricks, its the....
Posted by: Prophit
» English judges are almost all former barristers trained to take a line and defend it, not
Posted by: Suzon
» RE: Actually its not the lawyers that export their tricks, its the....
Posted by: Livemike
» Government has nothing to do with that.... the Federal REserve has....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Government has nothing to do with that.... the Federal REserve has....
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: credit card rebellion..a better idea...
Posted by: MausMasher54
» RE: credit card rebellion..a better idea...OOPes....
Posted by: MausMasher54
Comments are closed-
Posted by: rickiey on Feb 6, 2009 4:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So, the recommendation of this article, is that you become a liar. Forget being a good person, to hell with right and wrong, its the house that you WANT to live in, just because you haven't paid for it, doesn't mean you shouldn't have it.
SO turn yourself into a common thief, and hope that you can exploit a loophole in bookkeeping to keep that which you didn't pay for, because it is what you WANT.
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» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: ellie
» "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: WyrdSister
» RE: "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: "Solid Contract Law"
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: Livemike
» The clash of titans: stupid, nasty greed versus stupid, nasty greed.
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Another ankle grab brought to you by Rickiey
Posted by: Livemike
» Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Forget that, if they are not going to be good people and scam us...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: jrmart
» Actually, the borrower on subprime no income documentation loans....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: madmax427
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: rickiey
» The Real Common Thieves Are The Banks
Posted by: cherylholmes
» RE: The Real Common Thieves Are The Banks
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: Squat. To hell with being a good person, squat.
Posted by: rickiey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: kegbot1 on Feb 6, 2009 5:00 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
You are putting yourself squarely on the side of evil. I have NO compunction in hurting a bank or one of these mortgage companies - they richly deserve it. The average person is not a lawyer and if you've ever tried to read one of these so-called agreements, you'll see they're loaded with so much boiler plate language that even competent attorneys have problems interpreting them.
And when the average person who had been shut out of home ownership for so long in this country is finally offered, perhaps for the only time in their lives, that chance it is no wonder that so many took it.
And when the corporate media bombards people all the time on the benefits, prestige and security in owning their own home, why are we surprised? These people did what the money masters told them to do. People were set up and now they are being knocked down by these same evil entities that you are defending.
I would like you, all of you rugged individualists and defenders of the brave banking class to go and watch an eviction. Go ahead - look into the eyes of the families being thrown out of their homes - thousands of them. And then lecture them how stupid and greedy they were to DARE think they could have a piece of the so-called 'American dream.'
It has nothing to do with being a "good person" unless you only consider the capitalist class "good people." I guess for some they so love their masters that they will defend them at all costs.
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» RE: To all the ruthless and cruel commenting here
Posted by: Basenjis
» RE: To all the ruthless and cruel commenting here
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: To all the ruthless and cruel commenting here
Posted by: Jim Shaw
» As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
» Rickiey - you seem to forget this issue
Posted by: chaoslegs
» RE: ickiey - you seem to forget this issue
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: As a "ruthless and cruel commenter"...
Posted by: rickiey
Comments are closed-
Posted by: Jasonix on Feb 6, 2009 5:37 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It shows how evil our current system is - the average person facing hardship in the U.S. will be much better off if the government fails. To survive when that happens, we need to somehow resurrect local communities and group bonds. That will be the real challenge. We've all grown up in a time when families are scattered across different states and when we only associate with people we like - the only people we deal with involuntarily are our co-workers, whom we hate and get away from the second we punch our time-cards. Now, we have to bond with our neighbors, most of whom we don't even know or have any desire to know. But we have to form allegiances with these people - together we'll grow food in the spaces that used to be our yards, together we'll shoot guns at those who threaten us, etc. In a best case scenario, truly small towns in places like northern New England might be able to come together in their town halls and function on some kind of town-level. I don't have high hopes for any place with a population above 10,000.
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» RE: It's a good idea - you might be able to outlast government's ability to function
Posted by: madmax427
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Posted by: ABetterFuture on Feb 6, 2009 5:47 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» Pardon. I didn't realize banks were going after the things folks...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
» What you just described is not how it works..... the bankers ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: What you just described is not how it works..... the bankers ....
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: What you just described is not how it works..... the bankers ....
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» RE: False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: False analogy AKA red herring alert.
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: Better! If your neighbor has a better home that you'd like to have...
Posted by: peacefullaim1
Comments are closed-
Posted by: canary131 on Feb 6, 2009 5:51 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But, real estate isn't like stocks. All people need a place to sleep, not everyone needs stock. So, regular people got caught up.
I remember reading FOR YEARS about how banks were allowing people to get loans with inadequate documentation. That is a BANK issue. People lie, especially where money is involved. Banks should have known that, but they were too busy raking in the big bucks.
So looking at motivation -- for *most* people (not all) they simply wanted a home to live in and raise their families. For banks -- they wanted MONEY, and allowed the current situation to develop. As between these 2, I choose to side with the PEOPLE rather than the greedy, elite banks.
Why are banks too big to fail, but not people???
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» Hahaha, aren't you even a little embarrassed at your ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: rickiey
» RE: I’m tired of the “I just want a good life for my children” excuse
Posted by: peacefullaim1
» That's well and good, until someone writes you a hot check...
Posted by: ABetterFuture
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Posted by: aptdam on Feb 6, 2009 5:55 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
1. buy another house before you file foreclosure on your present home. you will receive a $15,000.00 incentive for doing so. After you foreclose on your present home, you will be be given tax debt relief!
yes, the rich will get richer and the poor will get poorer.
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» Is this legal?
Posted by: wolfgangmo
» RE: Is this legal?
Posted by: aptdam
» Do you have a link to that program????
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Do you have a link to that program????
Posted by: aptdam
» RE: Do you have a link to that program????
Posted by: DavidGT
Comments are closed-
Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars on Feb 6, 2009 6:39 AM
Current rating: 2 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: ikonoklast on Feb 6, 2009 7:58 AM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Sheriff Evans is on the right track here and his justification is sound. I'm sure when the time comes for reelection the people of Wayne County will show their support.
Let's start on the real work: making sure laws are written for the benefit of the public and getting rid of legislators who work against our common interest.
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» What is unjust...
Posted by: EncinoM
» I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: cmaciain
» RE: I believe the rule of law has only applied to the people as ....
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: Sheriff Evans has the right idea!
Posted by: sal sazonada
» RE: Only one problem with that and the ReThugees are Ecstatic..
Posted by: MausMasher54
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Posted by: Prophit on Feb 6, 2009 9:05 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: GuitarBill on Feb 6, 2009 11:21 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: jwverez on Feb 6, 2009 12:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: wolfgangmo on Feb 7, 2009 2:52 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I once worked with an military reserve officer who was another right wing bastard. He was ex-marine and he liked to tell this story about when he was stationed as a guard at camp david in the 90's. He said that most marines hated democrats and President Clinton specifically. They didn't like the "cuts" that happened under President Clinton and one way they "got back" at him was to take Chelsea's teddy bear and wipe it on their asses when they got the chance.
He repeated this story to anyone who had the misfortune to be assigned to work with him and most people would just grit their teeth and ust get through their shift until I was assigned with him. In front of a ton of other officers and other witnesses I told him that he was a disgrace to the marines, and to his country.
He sputtered and demanded that I apologize. I refused and explained that he had disrespected his uniform, disrespected the office of the president and had done so while on duty to protect a little girl. by abusing that little girls teddy bear and that he didn't even have the guts to stand up for what he believed in, but had to pick on a kid.
I told this story because your posts remind me of him.
The number one reason for foreclosure is unexpected medical expenses and not being able to pay a loan from day one. And the shared top reasons for this is either that they didn't have coverage, or that their coverage decided to just not pay. Frankly I have never met a bookie who didn't cover a bet, but insurance companies do it all day, every day.
For a guy in the military, you sure shoot at the wrong target a lot.
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» RE: the number one reason for foreclosure in america is not what Rush says.
Posted by: peacefullaim1
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Posted by: gar1948 on Feb 6, 2009 8:53 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's say that when you bought your house, the appraisal came in at $100,000. You put 5% ($5,000) down. That means you have to get a $95,000 mortgage on a $100,000 house.
You live there for two years making payments which don't really affect the principle owed much because most of it goes for interest, but lets say it gives you another $500 in equity. So, now, you owe $94,500 on a $100,000 house.
And then, you lose your job or something and can no longer make the payments. Foreclosure proceeding are started. By the time all the fees and accrued interest on the missed payments are charged against your mortgage, it could be well over the initial cost of the house by the time you are finally thrown out. Let's say the final mortgage comes to $102,000.
Now, you are homeless, out of a job, and tax time rolls around. Since you were "forgiven" $102,000 on a house that only appraised at $100,000, you have a "net gain" or income of $2,000 which is taxable! And that is what will be reported to the IRS on a 1099 form by your friendly mortgage company.
The scenario could be much worse depending on the reported value of the house by the mortgage company. Let's say they have the house reappraised, because the market is so depressed, and it only appraises for $75,000. Now, you are being "forgiven" a debt of $102,000 dollars on a house that is only worth $75,000, so you have a "net gain" of $27,000 and every cent of it is taxable as income!
How do I know this? Because I was caught in it two years ago.
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» Thats close but not exactly right......
Posted by: Prophit
» RE: Thats close but not exactly right......
Posted by: aptdam
» RE: Thats close but not exactly right......
Posted by: gar1948
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Posted by: agape on Feb 6, 2009 9:55 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» You are right about most of that.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
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Posted by: DaBear on Feb 6, 2009 11:03 AM
Current rating: 3 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Amy and The good Rep from Ohio need to fucking live down here at the bottom before they start giving people advice. It's the fault of the rich owning class shitheads at the top. ALL OF IT. Until the police are de-militarized, squatting is a really dangerous thing to do, especially if you ain't lilly white...
1789.
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» RE: Telling people to squat is easy for someone NOT facing foreclosure to say
Posted by: monkeywrench
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Posted by: jwverez on Feb 6, 2009 11:27 AM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
At a time when all homeowners facing foreclosure for various reasons are coming under fire and some are mistaken as greedy wannabes, I'm glad that my next door family didn't have to make it to the hate list. After all the trouble they went through to climb up that ladder, the last thing they needed was an unanticipated accident followed by discrimination to shatter their lives.
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» RE: I'm glad I saved a young man and his family from making it to the hate list of "freeloaders".
Posted by: EncinoM
» RE: I'm glad I saved a young man and his family from making it to the hate list of "freeloaders".
Posted by: jwverez
Comments are closed-
Posted by: EncinoM on Feb 6, 2009 1:56 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
No, a federal court in Iowa (so this ruling, for now only applies to Iowa), held that a bank that failed to produce an assignment of a Mortgage had no standing to bring a foreclosure action. The assignment is the document by which the original lender asigns its rights to a third party. This is not the same as a mortgage or a deed, both of which, in many states are filed with the county clerks office, and the courts want the a certified copy of the clerk's record. Additionally, the home owner is not free and clear, the note holder can or what ever party can prove it has standing can still commence a foreclosure action.
Like the various tax avoidance websites, Rep. Kapture has taken a small iota of truth and buried it in legal misunderstanding.
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Posted by: monkeywrench on Feb 6, 2009 2:18 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: tony_opmoc on Feb 6, 2009 2:51 PM
Current rating: 1 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Is "Notting Hill" Staring that Rather Good Looking American Actress - I Forget Her Name
The Real World
Is a company started off by Peter Gabriel
He started off bringing Musicians from all over the World to Play Live in England 27 Years ago
And my wife and I missed the first one at Sheppton Mallet
However we went to the Genesis Re-union at Milton Keynes to pay off all his massive debts
And we have met some Completely Phenomenal Musicians at WOMAD since and have already got our tickets for this year's Festival
Wake Up AMERICA
The World Of Music Arts and Dance
You are Getting Left Behind
Bye
Tony
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» RE: The Musicians Of Hawkwind Wrote Masters Of The Universe Living in Squats in Notting Hill
Posted by: EncinoM
» Sure it was babble, but he might have a point under all that rubble.
Posted by: wolfgangmo
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Posted by: abusedbypenguins on Feb 6, 2009 6:29 PM
Current rating: 4 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: weslen1 on Feb 6, 2009 6:53 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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Posted by: stopthemaddness2 on Feb 7, 2009 1:57 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
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» RE: SIST and KEEP YOUR HOME
Posted by: Livemike
» RE: SIST and KEEP YOUR HOME
Posted by: peacefullaim1
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Posted by: aeonpi on Feb 11, 2009 9:38 PM
Current rating: 5 [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
So we step out and off the Corporate Grid and began to do what our ancestors did. You know what we found... we found laws still in effect ( but secretly hidden beyond way to much to read) that allowed us the right to become one with our land, with our selves and with our Higher powers. We found truths hidden in articles that most would have given up on finding. We continued to know end and over again. Until we discovered our pot of gold.
Now that we have ridden the rainbow and risen up from the ashes. We are confident that the solutions we offer are for the highest good. What makes us confident and the difference between us and those in the past. Is, One when you pay your bill, there are no more bills like that. Two, the land becomes a certifiable habitat. Three, We have all peoples health in mind and so we have created packages that include your food (permaculture, horticulture, agriculture-{(*really a thing of the past, in its current state)} and homesteading) We have also consider other things like: emotional, spiritual, physical and mental health. We have professionals ready to donate some time to get our people back on track. Fourth, We are always open to barter, trade and exchange (see green society link on my site). We actually prefer it over the falling dollar. Or any other make shift currency.
Finally, The home you get will be yours, with you in mind (fung shui ahead of time). It will become your sacred space where you leave your worries behind and become centered and balanced. Ready to head out into the challenges of a new day.
We are Renewing America. Solar, Wind, Water powered homes and vehicles. Conversion kits that work and are stood behind. We have addressed issues like water shortage (our Air2Water machine lessens this burden). No one should ever have to suffer in or from nature. So we have Geodesic domes that give added protection against hurricanes, tornado's and some even say provide safety in a fire.
We Live by the Motto: "IN EACH OTHER WE TRUST"
Come See Aeonpi.com
Blessings to you and your Future Well Being
:AEON-PI-PHLO
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Posted by: Bearzerker on Feb 28, 2009 12:00 PM
Current rating: Not yet rated [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
what makes people so submissive that they would willingly leave there home for a piece of paper that in itself is worthless?
It boggles my mind that it must come down to squatters rights!
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