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Rights and Liberties

I Killed My Parents -- They Asked Me to Do It

By John West, Counterpoint Press. Posted February 5, 2009.


The author explains why, after his parents made their wishes clear, he didn't argue.
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The Last Goodnights: Assisting My Parents with Their Suicides by John West (Counterpoint Press, 2009).
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In November 1998, John West's father, who had recently been diagnosed with cancer, asked him an extraordinary favor: help him commit suicide. After the tremendous weight of those words settled squarely on West's shoulders, he looked at his father and said the only thing he knew to say, "You got it." So, on the evening of July 2, 1999, John helped his father take a cocktail of pills. By morning, he was dead. The death was attributed to the cancer, and only West knew better. Months later, his mother asked West the same devastating favor and, again, he agreed. For more than a decade, West kept the secrets to himself, not even telling his sisters the role he had played. Now, he is coming out with his side of the story in The Last Goodnights: Assisting My Parents with Their Suicides Counterpoint Press, 2009). The following is an excerpt from the book.

***

I don't know what my booze bill was for that time, but I'm sure it was big. I had a good reason, though: I had to kill my parents. They asked me to. Actually, they asked me to help them with their suicides, and I did. And if that doesn't justify throwing back an extra glass or three of Jameson's on the rocks, then I don't know what does. 

My father was Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West, MD, a world-renowned psychiatrist and former chairman of the department of psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles, age seventy-four. My mother was Kathryn "K" West, PhD, a respected clinical psychologist at the West Los Angeles (Brentwood) Veterans Administration Hospital, age seventy-five.

Jolly and K were wonderful people -- brilliant, academic medical professionals, highly cultured, and well rounded. Neither was at all religious, but both had deep insight into the human condition. They knew what was what. And they knew what they wanted.

So when they made their wishes clear to me, I wasn't about to argue. I respected my father and mother, and I loved them. And I believe, as they did, in freedom of choice, the right to personal privacy and self-determination -- which includes reproductive choice (as the law now recognizes, although it didn't used to), the right to refuse medical treatment (as the law now recognizes, although it didn't used to), and the right to choose death with dignity (as the law does not recognize -- not yet -- although a few states are getting close).

My father's desire to end his life did not shock me, especially since his newly discovered cancer -- a particularly vicious type -- was literally eating him up and would take him from playing tennis to lying dead in just five months. Should Jolly have been forced to endure a few more days or weeks of agony just to satisfy some people's notions that death should be "natural"?

And what about my mother? K had midstage Alzheimer's disease, plus osteoporosis and emphysema. Should she have been forced to deteriorate into a walking vegetable, soiling herself, wandering into traffic, hunched over like a crab, and coughing up blood, just because some people say that's how it's always been and always should be?

Jolly and K said no. And I agreed.

The Beginning

I had no idea what my father wanted to talk to me about that afternoon in early November 1998 when he asked me to step into his bedroom for a private chat. But I was used to Jolly's secretiveness, so I didn't find it odd that he would suggest it, particularly with a houseful of visiting relatives and no privacy anywhere but behind a locked door. I assumed he had some additional bad news about the status of his cancer, something he wanted to tell me first, since I would be his successor in the role of what Jolly liked to call "the man of the family." An outdated concept, perhaps, but one that, unfortunately, applied more to our family than I liked. After Jolly's death, I would be the one member of the family who could be called solid, competent, and reliable. My mother had once been an ultra-competent professional, but various illnesses had left her needy and dependent. I had two sisters, both older than I, but Jolly never felt they could properly handle complicated or stressful "real world" matters. Years of experience and many disappointments had informed his opinion.

I sat in the big leather chair by the bookshelves, prepared to wait. Whenever Jolly talked to me about something important, he approached it in a roundabout way.

But not this time. Straight away he said, "John, I need your help."

This startled me -- doubly so. He was being direct, which was rare enough. And he was asking for help. Jolly never asked for help. His smoothly contained persona, Mr. Totally In Control, had just popped open right in front of me. Not that any outsider would have noticed, because Jolly's demeanor was exactly the same as it was whenever he discussed anything important: His voice was measured and smooth; he sat squarely on the edge of his bed, leaning forward with his elbows on his knees and his hands clasped; he looked straight at me, seriously and intently, but his face showed little more than mild concern. His face rarely gave anything away. Only his words betrayed him now.


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John West is author of The Last Goodnights: Assisting My Parents with Their Suicides by John West (Counterpoint Press, 2009).

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If he had done this in 2005,
Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield on Feb 5, 2009 12:27 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
the author would have been in a living hell having to deal with the rightwing fascists like Mike Schiavo faced during the Terri Schiavo tragedy.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Not the same case Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Not the same case Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» sheesh :.? Posted by: stellabloo
» RE: Nature taking its course Posted by: stellabloo
» Ah yes, of course. Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
» Mind Your Own Business Posted by: edgar1
» Speak for yourself peeface. Posted by: Jennifer Bedingfield
Endgame
Posted by: fmcevoy on Feb 5, 2009 12:47 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Well, I guess we all live in a bleaker world than we thought. Outside of suspecting Mr. Wild has a drinking problem, there is little an outsider can say.

One can, however, give his own experience. My father battled cancer for 10 years. He lived two years in a nursing home because of a stroke that left him paralyzed. His mind was there. He was a full family member until he died. My mother is now in a nursing home, her mind failing. Again, the family rallies.

I'm not God, though I know people who think they are. I cannot make a call on another's life. I can't make a call on my own life. In one of his books, Garry Wills writes that 18th century Anthony Benezet thought he was a failure on his deathbed. He was anything but.

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» RE: ndgame Posted by: Malamute
» RE: ndgame Posted by: kroltan
» My dad, the same Posted by: Smackback
You are compassionate and worthy of high respect
Posted by: georgiaorwell on Feb 5, 2009 1:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you, Mr. West, for sharing this very personal story on alternet. I'm quite certain that this might have been the most difficult decision you have ever had to make, and I sincerely respect you for honoring your parents' wishes as well as telling their stories. You did the right thing, and that had to be terribly difficult. Keeping this event a secret, also, had to be difficult for you.

I know that assisted death is legal in many countries in Europe, and I regard it as far more humane than leaving a person to suffer horribly (in many instances) or be in a vegetative state. I definitely respect your decision to come forth and allow readers into your experience. Meta.

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Decidedly problematic
Posted by: brunowe on Feb 5, 2009 1:33 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Absent a living will or witnesses, we have only the son's story as to the details. Without doubting the specifics of the Wests's condition, one has to wonder, in such cases, how solid and consistent was their wish for assisted suicide and how much of the decision was the result of the person doing the assisting that it was the right thing for the patient?

Likewise, too what extent was West subconsciously influenced by his obviously very serious rift with his father?

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» No it isn't Posted by: brunowe
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: kegbot1
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: brunowe
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: Quannah
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: brunowe
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: Quannah
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: rinthy
» RE: No it isn't Posted by: dmb8762
» RE: Decidedly problematic Posted by: wagnerrocks@gmail.com
» RE: Decidedly problematic Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Decidedly problematic Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» Ah, self-righteous nonsense Posted by: brunowe
» RE: Decidedly problematic Posted by: patsy6
I hope John has a good lawyer...
Posted by: dwbodine on Feb 5, 2009 2:45 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...cause the insurance company could now likely go after him for fraud. Most insurance policies do not pay off in the case of suicide, and if he accepted money from their death KNOWING that he had either helped cause it or that it was not natural, you can bet those bloodsucking leeches will be after him to get their cash back. That is, if his local government doesn't chase him down for murder charges first. Those were my initial thoughts.

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» Unnecessary comment Posted by: 2dogarage
» Stupe Posted by: Dankhank
» RE: Stupe Posted by: willymack
Personal Wishes
Posted by: Pegaleg on Feb 5, 2009 3:50 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admire your bravery in telling this story to those of us who may one day find ourselves in those same shoes. What you did for your parents was listen without judgement and give them a shoulder to lean on. That support, at the end of their lives was the greatest gift. God bless you for being a wonderful son. You paid a price for that.

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Yes
Posted by: Bushmaster on Feb 5, 2009 4:19 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is a fine story. Heard in on NPR yesterday and will look for the book today.

Dying under the auspices of a for profit health care system is not a pleasant future to consider. It seems that Doctors know this. I wonder how it is that we in the public have been persuaded that to give ourselves up to these people is more desirable than taking a simple walk with Mr. Hemingway.

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walking in their shoes
Posted by: whoopingcrone on Feb 5, 2009 4:42 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My parents have been dead for many years, so I will never face a similar situation myself... but my children may well have to.
So a huge "Thank You" to Mr. West for showing me what they may experience, if I ask them to do for me what he did for his mom and dad.

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Your love of your parents is obvious
Posted by: disc golf on Feb 5, 2009 4:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I admire your compassion for your parents and your courage in coming forward to tell this story. I think you did the right thing. You also tell it in a very fine way.

As a nutritionist who works in a clinic where 2/3 of the patients are cancer patients, I look at it from another angle. I see folks reverse their cancer all the time and at many stages. However, once a patient is getting "conventional treatments" it is very difficult to do "holistic therapies" effectively. Recently, the daughter of a friend (40, not a patient at my clinic), was stuck in a hospital for 4 weeks while her mom tried in vain to get a doctor to give her vitamin C. They didn't even have it in their pharmacy! And sadly, because of the neglect of basic nutritional interventions, she died. She left two young children and a husband behind. This is outrageous! How can a hospital not have vitamin C in their pharmacy? (It's not the first time.) The neglect of even "basic" nutritional interventions is scandalous. But it's just the tip of the iceberg. One major cancer center in NY City advises their patients NOT to take any vitamin supplements!

When patients aren't even encouraged to change their diets, check their vitamin D levels (significantly linked to about half the cancers in America, take supportive nutrients and avoid toxic therapies that might kill before they save, we know something is wrong. (Go to: http://tompetrie.net/id8.html)

So while this story is poignant and important, it should not have us forget that in many cases, cancer patients can be saved. All Americans need to learn that MUCH can be done outside "conventional" treatments to save one's life. But when the patient can't be saved, assisted suicide is certainly a compassionate choice when all effective options have been eliminated.

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Puhlease
Posted by: mpreb658@earthlink.net on Feb 5, 2009 4:52 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A heart rending story, so well told. One has to wonder how frequent is this same story across the land, when drug companies channel more and more poisonous pills into us via doctors, so as to keep us alive longer in worse shape to take more pills to fill their coffers.

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Thank you for sharing this
Posted by: manderson on Feb 5, 2009 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Anyone who has had to make the decision "not to resuscitate" or to NOT "take heroic measures" as per the standard medical questionnaire or a living will knows what you've gone through.

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Thank you Alternet - perhaps the best article you have ever published
Posted by: charles000 on Feb 5, 2009 4:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Alternet - perhaps the best article you have ever published

I know this story all too well, only in this case it may not be parents, but myself.

I've been quietly living on "borrowed time" for a number of years, actually considerably longer than anyone might have guessed given the particulars of circumstance.

But I do know that at a certain point, basic functions such as mobility and vision will start to deteriorate quickly, and it would be at that point where making a graceful and quiet exit would be the appropriate and already planned for procedure.

Look, here's reality, in the year 2009, in the USA.

Spending ridiculous amounts of money in order to purchase another handful of months, or maybe a year or two at most, makes no sense at all.

Even if I had such funds available, which I don't, this would be the last thing I would be throwing money at.

Medical insurance, being what it is, is not worth the absurdly overpriced monthly fees, only to have any treatment of real value denied because of so-called "pre existing" conditions or other arcane technical reasons for "discovering" that medical condition >fill in the blank< does not fit into the contractual fine print buried in page 36 paragraph 12 of the revised coverage updates as of . . . well, you sort of get the idea here.

So, here's what I see coming around the corner.

In my own case, I've made my peace, pretty much organized my affairs, and have already made the preparations to depart on my own terms - nothing dramatic here, just stating the facts. And I don't mind, all things considered.

I've had a sometimes challengng, but also remarkably interesting life, for which I am truly grateful for the blessings that I have had, and the relationships I have been blessed with.

But for many millions of ordinary working people out there, who, like myself, do not get the type of medical coverage that is currently provided to members of Congress, for instance, they will have nightmarish choices and complexities to confront soon enough.

For the average citizen, something like 80% of all health care costs ocur in the last 10% of life. Everyone knows that Social Security, Medicare and related support programs are essentially bankrupt, and were never intended for the types of situations that will be coming up. en masse, at a time when the US treasury is already broke, and in debt to countries like China and Saudi Arabia that have essentially paid for the war in Iraq and related military escapades.

I don't claim any special wisdom here, but the "handwriting is on the wall" as it were, for anyone and everyone to see.

My parting thought for the moment is this - at some point, the absurdly rigid and evermore bizarre religious edicts that have been thrust upon the world's populations, especially those peoples who are inclined to be succeptable to such belief systems, are going to be in direct conflict with the reality at hand.

Issues like family planning, abortion, and medical suicide are going to have to become the acceptable norm for the general populations of the world, or civilization as we know it to be will simply collapse into chaos, as the global population spikes past 10 billion, and the world's economies and available resources are taxed beyond capacity.

In essence, we are already at the beginning edge of this downward spiral, and it is at this exact moment in time when these issues need to be addressed in a realistic and reasonable fashion, or be exposed to the horrendous consequences of retreating even further into irrational fundamentalist religious dogma, to the detriment of the entire planet.

I do not envy the world that today's young people are about to inherit - this will not be an easy or "fun" time.

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A rational choice
Posted by: kegbot1 on Feb 5, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I watched my father die in slow agony from misdiagnosed lymphoma in 1983. By the time they caught it, all they could do was rear guard action. But dad had a final role to play in his misery - to further enrich the US health care industry, which he did.

But his Catholicism guaranteed that he would go down in horrible agony with his entire family around to watch, especially the final delirious days (he died at home, thanks to early hospice).

Fast forward 25 years and it seems the situation is replaying itself with my mom. An orthodox Catholic, she's bound and determined to die in the same living room in which my dad died. The same living room I'm in which I'm typing this response for now I am her primary caregiver.

I'll spare the readers her long litany of her debilitation. Her primary doctor and visiting nurse both say she shouldn't be at home. She doesn't care - she wants what she wants and it doesn't matter that there aren't enough funded social services in the world or this red-state county to do the job right, although I'm trying.

What I want for her is what her nuns used to make us pray for in our youth - a happy death. However, I see her going down the same torturous road of my father - because her god commands her to.

I swear by all that's holy I will not allow the superstition of religion nor the interests of an uncaring government to determine for me how I will die in such a circumstance. My life is my own.

I have nothing but sympathy for the author. My only caveat is not only would I never ask my son to care for me in the way I'm caring for my mother, but I would also not ask him or anyone else to assist me in my death. But whatever people decide amongst themselves and their family, should be respected.

But I know in this culture, it won't.

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» Take care of yourself Posted by: plantland
» kegbot1... Posted by: Moira61
» Moira Posted by: kegbot1
In relation to this, may I suggest...
Posted by: ZPaul on Feb 5, 2009 5:00 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
...seeing the movie "The Sea Inside". I don't want to judge this person's decision to assist his parents in what they decided to do, just like I don't want to judge the woman who gave Ramon Sampedro the pill that put an end to his life, with his consent. I know it is a film, but it is an excellent film, and it is a true story which happened just a few years ago. I think it's something to reflect on.

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villager
Posted by: villager1 on Feb 5, 2009 5:04 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Life is short and should be enjoyed in a dignified and pain free way!

When all we have left is pain and a total lack of dignity then I cannot see the point.

My parents and my in-laws all suffered pain at the end and my late father in law said to me :" My Quality of life has left me and it is time to go" - What is the point if life can no longer be enjoyed?

No-one can convince me that someone on any life support machine is enjoying life!

I am 69 now and never been sick - if I get sick I do not want medication or surgery - death is inevitable and it does not scare me! - machines, scalpels and morphine are what I am scared of!

Death before suffering please!

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Amazing
Posted by: JWoodrow on Feb 5, 2009 5:17 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Wow, I cannot even begin to imagine how he has been able to deal with this over the years. Sounds like his book will be very good reading!

Rush
Privacy Center

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New economic realities and healthcare costs make assisted suicide problematic
Posted by: plantland on Feb 5, 2009 5:52 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I approve of assisted suicide in socialist countries.

I don't think we have enough in place to allow it here.

So many people losing their savings for old age in the recent collapse could also make fear and depression , rather than illness, compel them to suicide.

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i hope someone will do this for me when i am ready
Posted by: veggiegrrrl on Feb 5, 2009 6:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
i hope someone will do this for me when i am ready...i don't have kids but i do have younger sibs and they have a couple of kids. if the world is going the way it is written in the article "it's not going to be OK," i imagine in the future we will be able to walk into some one-stop-beam-up-shop and, for $39.99, be "put to sleep." i certainly hope so.

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» Groening Posted by: Elmowilcox
This comment has been removed from the site due to non-compliance with AlterNet's community policies.
» RE: I killed my parents Posted by: clvngodess
» RE: I killed my parents Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: I killed my parents Posted by: rare
» RE: I killed my parents Posted by: rinthy
» RE: I killed my parents Posted by: Quannah
» RE: I killed my parents Posted by: Quannah
» RE: to each their own Posted by: thealltheone
It's our own choice
Posted by: Sherirux on Feb 5, 2009 7:36 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
My father was a Navy corpsman and a strong, good man. My mother was a sweet, strong, early feminist. I adored them both so much.
Dad was 75 at his death. He had never hung out with old people and never considered himself as one. Old age annoyed him. He survived his quadruple bypass but could not get off the vent. All those cigarettes took their toll and the doctors wanted to make that vent permanent and dad would have been put in a facility with the other old people no longer breathing on their own. No way. The doctors tried to get me to sign the papers against my dear dad's wishes. No way. Mom had died a year before. She refused any more blood transfusions or any other painful treatments for her cancer and already once replaced heart valve. She told me she was done with the pain and wanted to pass. I held her as she died. So, one year later my strong, wonderful Navy medic father removed his vent himself and I refused to let them put him back on it. He died 2 days later. Their lives. Their choices. Their own decisions of how and when to die. I would have helped them in any way they asked me to do. That includes death. There's no love more real than that.

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» RE: It's our own choice Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
» RE: It's our own choice Posted by: Sherirux
» RE: It's our own choice Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN
Pastor Dave
Posted by: zorrotech on Feb 5, 2009 7:53 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I was the Pastor of the Los Angeles branch of the Peoples Temple, I escaped from Jim Jones in 1976 and they all committed mass suicide in 1978, almost a thousand people. I have had a lot of time since to think about the subject of assisted suicide and self suicide. I remember watching "They Shoot Horses Don't They" as a teenager in the theatre. Is it OK to drink the koolaide? I believe that all premature suicide is a type of self murder and that it is a slippery slope. When you are already dying then that is a different matter, you have the right to ease your condition and to ease or even expedite the process. As far as assisting others we don't want a "Soylent Green" society that plans death. Instead we want a society that fights for cures for diseases and breakthrough energy answers and things more in keeping with "Heaven on Earth" or life more abundant. Assisted suicide should thus be out of the question but how one leaves the earth should still be a protected legal decision. When a cruel monopolist controlled society denies you health care it is not their right to deny you alternative health breakthroughs or the option of seeking alternative answers. Could Kansius escort gold particles into only cancerous tissue and then heat and destroy cancer only with radio frequencies? His tests show 100% yes. Still, once diagnosed and when presented with great suffering is a hopeless man or woman right to increase pain medecine to lethal dosages...yes. A personal decision. In fact we are turning into the United States of Pain. They are jailing doctors for prescribing pain medicine in dosages that were heretofore acceptable. Bush bragged that he wanted to go after terrorists the way we have been going after doctors who prescribe pain medicine. The poor can scarcely get medicine because no one will take new medicaid patients. My ex just contracted cancer. I put her into the hospital. She had a cancer that was not metastisized. It was in her lymph gland only. I struggled to get her pain medicine until she was finally hospitalized. They said they could remove the cancer. The hospital killed her, there was never a chance for her to even get to removing the cancer. Before they killed her they humiliated her and abused her in a gross and heartless way. I will tell anyone more about it that asks. In retrospect I wish that she had been allowed to die at home rather than to go into the hospital. Every case is different but I only believe in your right to expedite your own exit not the right to get someone else to do it for you.

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thank you
Posted by: kittybrat on Feb 5, 2009 7:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For your candor, your courage, and your commitment.
I honor you, as you honored our parents.
Thank your for speaking out on this important matter.

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Legal in the Northwest
Posted by: Kitty Lady Oregon on Feb 5, 2009 8:00 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There would be no problem in Oregon or Washington if he had recruited the help of a doctor. I firmly believe that nobody should be forced to live beyond their good health.

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Thanks for the strength, and a measure of peace....
Posted by: Gisele on Feb 5, 2009 9:16 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This story, and the greater majority of comments related to it - give me a measure of peace, and strength.

As I write this, my Mother is sleeping about 25 feet from me...she is dying of metasticized breast cancer. It has gone to her bones and is now in her leg, both sets of ribs, her skull and her shoulder. She has fought this damned disease for 9 years now, and is still fighting...but she's getting tired. I can see the change as each week passes. It's not new to me, breast cancer has killed the eldest and second eldest female in our family for 4 generations now...I know what to expect.

But it's a different thing when it's your parent.

Mom was a child herself when she had me, and for the most part she raised 5 girls on her own. She is more than my Mom, she's my best friend, confidante, older sister, beloved Mother. The thought of losing her is hell, and being a caregiver for her has brought everything to the surface. The thought of losing her really is hellish, but worse than that is the thought of the pain she'll go through...she doesn't know she has the most painful form of cancer there is (according to her doctor).

The timing of this story is perfect - Mom and I had this discussion last week. Her life was her call, her death will be her call. It has been decided that her pain medication will be set aside on all days that she doesn't really need it, and when the day comes that she just can't face the mountain anymore...she will place her "special pillow" on the bed. When I see that pillow, I'll go to her, sit with her while she takes her medication...then lie down beside her and hold her until the next door opens for her. She will not die alone, or in a hospital where they'll stamp her number "expired".

My heart will shatter to a million pieces I know, but I'll still be smiling. She won't hurt anymore, and she'll have lived and died HER life. HER way. I adore her, I've gone through hell with her thus far...and I won't turn away now, or then.

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Wow
Posted by: BlueTigress on Feb 5, 2009 10:01 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Powerful and poignant.

Situations like this are why assisted suicide should be legal. The situations were terminal, the ill person had obviously given it a lot of thought, and they were in control of their faculties.

We do have to be careful, though. It's also possible to pressure someone into committing suicide and that's wrong.

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It's all Bush's fault
Posted by: LillianB on Feb 5, 2009 10:08 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's all Bush's fault and any other person in the world who may have right wing tendencies.

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» I must have missed it Posted by: maddy
» Very Touchy! Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: It's all Bush's fault Posted by: iolanthe
But suppose you really hated them......
Posted by: richard0a37 on Feb 5, 2009 10:19 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
…. Jolly and K were wonderful people -- brilliant, academic medical professionals, highly cultured, and well rounded. Neither was at all religious, but both had deep insight into the human condition. They knew what was what. And they knew what they wanted…..

This is how the author John West describes his parents - his father Louis Jolyon "Jolly" West, MD, world-renowned psychiatrist and former chairman of the department of psychiatry at the University of California, Los Angeles, age seventy-four; and his mother Kathryn "K" West, PhD, respected clinical psychologist at the West Los Angeles (Brentwood) Veterans Administration Hospital, age seventy-five.

When they asked their son to assist them in meeting death prematurely, he complied with their wishes.

It must be wonderful to have had parents that you can communicate with at so deep a level, and I guess the request itself could only have been made when there was an implicit degree of trust between all parties, as well as a high level of intellectual and emotional closeness.

I am writing this because I have just gone through yet another two days of absolute hell with my own father, and perhaps I just wish to find a suitable forum to express my deep unhappiness with having him as my father.

In fact, today, I wanted to phone him and ask him if he is indeed the same person that raised me as a child from birth, and who would come into my room most evenings to help me with my homework. He was keen, amongst other things, to expound his knowledge of the workings of the electric bell which I was having trouble with in my physics homework.

He once wrote an essay for me that I handed in to my English teacher. When I was once asked to write a musical review for a local newspaper, he insisted on correcting my grammar and suggesting different ideas for what I might put in the article.

For as long as I can remember (I am 62), he has often phoned me and talked about the various ways he could end his own life. His tone of voice, though, might not be much different from say, discussing the various ways you might make a mushroom omelette.

I have had a problem with taking his suggestions seriously, because he has a tendency to forget what he has been saying. Indeed, he has a tendency to be forever forgetting what he has already told you, which ends up with him repeating himself over and over again as the years go by, and if you so much as suggest that you’ve heard it all a thousand times already, he will go into a rage and say: ‘so what,’ and get upset.

My father (who is now 88) was raised in a family that paid little if any attention to religion, yet he is one of the most fanatically anti-religious people that I know of, and any mention of the word ‘God’ or ‘belief’ will release in him an explosive torrent of anti-religious sentiment, and that the human race is nothing but a bunch of defective sociopaths, thus making any further sane or rational intellectual conversation impossible.

And I ask myself – what is the driving force behind this primal anti-religious sentiment that he so stubbornly clings to, as if his refusal to acknowledge any kind of a belief system means more to him than life itself? Even when I say something that would agree with his feelings, it soon becomes subsumed by such emotional rage as if he has unwittingly stuck his finger in the wall socket.

My father wallows in emotional pain, and how often has he said he wished he could be rid of this useless life that he appears to have to endure every day.

John West apparently loved his parents enough to help them end their lives.

NOT GOOD ENOUGH mate. You should have let the bastards suffer.

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I am going to go get this book today.
Posted by: Quannah on Feb 5, 2009 10:38 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I am a cancer survivor. I am now without insurance, and have been for quite some time. I am fully aware that if cancer returns, it is a death sentence for me, as I cannot afford the tests to get a diagnosis, let alone any sort of treatment.

I had a conversation with my daughter about this very subject when she was home at Christmas. I told her that if my cancer returns, I will decide, for myself, when it's time to die. It was very difficult for her, I know, but I want to be able to do it on my terms, not anyone else's. I want to be able to say goodbye to my loved ones and I want to have my choice respected and accepted. I am lucky. My daughter understands.

What I understand is that death is simply the last stage of life. It will claim everyone. "No one here gets out alive."

I am grateful that we can have this discussion here, and that AlterNet posted this article. People in this country need to not be afraid to discuss the subject of death. These kinds of stories makes it easier.

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My wife would go out of her way to save her parents and mine if any of them
Posted by: maxpayne on Feb 5, 2009 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
were even thinking of dying. It takes a lot of training and practice but when you can pull them out of their misery and convince them to just relax and make the best of their lives and just give themselves a chance as long as they're not in a vegetated state or anything like that, then you'll feel proud. I still question whether the author actually tried to convince them to stay at least a little longer.

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» stay for WHAT? Posted by: sunspot
» RE: stay for WHAT? Posted by: maxpayne
» hey BigMouth: go volunteer at a hospice Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
Money/health insurance, a huge deciding factor
Posted by: thealltheone on Feb 5, 2009 12:06 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
ON whether we live or die. I have seen so many people die of cancer around me with no health insurance and many survive it, with health insurance. My mother is a three time survivor. My sister twice. Both my in-laws died of cancer, one with and one with out health insurance. I have seen many friends with cancer so bad, you knew they would never make it and they did and are fine today, but after a really hard and painful battle. Anyone that has had to have radiation on the throat can say. Cancer is a funny thing,so is the will of a person and the power of love. One kid was only 15, and had cancer in every major organ of his body. At least a hundred teenagers came and did vigils in front of his small house for a week and prayed. He felt the love and the cancer disappeared. He went back to school and life as normal. One year later, his parents divorced because of money problems, the town went on as usual and he died with in two weeks of the cancers return and it did with a vengeance. The one's with insurance are more likely to survive. The ones without, never do. I had one friend that seemed in such good health maybe just a little tired. She never went to doctors because of money. by the time they caught it, it was too late and she died within two months, at home. Even with health insurance not all the costs are covered and the family is left with high debt. What greatly upsets me is the medical costs and how they sway a persons decision. Money should not be a factor but it is. Those of us without insurance just live the best we can. we are all ticking time bombs and could hit by a car tomorrow. This is also a personal decision. Aren't we all killing ourselves one way or the other? aren't we all living the way we choose to live or not live? Funny how I see healthy people not living at all, and dying people living better than they ever did. It would be nice to think that our deaths are our decisions to make. What is our decision to make is how we live it. People justify everything their own way, and what ever to make it through the day, but death is inevitable and ultimately very personal.
Either way, sometimes we forget, life is just too short and health insurance should not be a factor in the equation.

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The Most Profound Love...
Posted by: nen on Feb 5, 2009 12:16 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
... is a love that is willing to let go. For the sake of another person's sanity and dignity, out of respect for their wishes, allowing that person to leave this life in their desired fashion should be a basic human right. We afford this mercy to elderly and suffering pets, yet not humans. Not quite yet.

I respect you, sir. Your story touched me deeply, especially since I am estranged from my adoptive family. I wish that the kind of love you have shown could be between myself and my parents. I admit to getting choked-up as your memories of your childhood brought up fond memories of my own. But, apparently my being queer renders all that parental love moot.

In a broader sense, I wanted to state that I don't understand why we, as human beings, cannot have the common respect to allow others to live their lives, and end their lives, in a way that is comfortable to them. Even when we don't agree with, or can't comprehend the apparently strange ways of another, why can't we love and respect them despite all that? In the scope of the universe, does it really matter who one sleeps with? What gender they choose to live their life as? What deity they give their allegiance to? Who they married? It can't have that much weight. Not one tiny little life among billions.

Inevitably, we all must face death. I hope I will be able to face it with dignity, and more than that, I hope I will be ALLOWED to face it with dignity.

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» RE: The Most Profound Love... Posted by: Sherirux
The Holocaust started this way
Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 5, 2009 12:44 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is the same kind of rationale that the Nazis had when they started out. Eventually it led to the Holocaust.

Watch some good documentaries on the Holocaust, especially things the Nazis started doing in the thirties. It wasn't just like suddenly they made the decision "let's gas all the Jews and other undesireables".

There were definite steps and years of slow preparation getting people ready--getting the German people ready--to have gentle husbands and loving fathers gladly exterminate thousands of people a day, every day.

A very slippery slope this "assisted suicide" business is.

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» Godwin's Law Posted by: nen
Imagine if you can...
Posted by: Lantern on Feb 5, 2009 1:12 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We spend a lifetime assuming self-control of those parts of our lives that we can. When we can no longer control our lives because of imminent death we have to maintain the same level of self-control to end our physical presence before it is stolen from us by "well intentioned" others. A regulated suicide by medical means is no different than falling asleep at night. We just take a few more pills or use a stronger morphine drip, close our eyes and imagine how peaceful it is to take our final rest with our dignity intact and our mind at ease.

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MAN!
Posted by: Cybershaman on Feb 5, 2009 1:22 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm going to show this article to my kids the next time they object to washing the dishes or doing some chores. What a thing for a parent to lay on their child!

Well...after some thought I guess it would be better that just 'doing it' and leaving them there to wonder why or blame themselves. Geez! Death with dignity people. Being able to choose how and when we 'bow out' is another thing that separates us from the animal kingdom.

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cats, dogs & other 'infantilized mammals' we seek to control
Posted by: BlueBerry PickN on Feb 5, 2009 2:38 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
are treated with more ethics, compassion & dignity than we treat our suffering & dying human companions.

oddly, we seem to infantilize our human suffering & dying, as well...


We allow those we love & strangers to suffer: because no 'insurable authority figure' can figure a way to avoid being charged or accused with malpractice or criminal intent.

our cowardice, is brought on by a lack of trust & respect for the individuals' right to personal choice or ownership of their own body.

we criminalize vice.
we deny the right to the most essential part of living, aside from birth or conception.

My Father said, "never call a man lucky until you know the manner of his Death..."





perspective, people.


Perspective.


The Jeff Farias Show: podcast

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SkyZZ
Posted by: 23Sky on Feb 5, 2009 3:15 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I probably missed something here, and don't have time to read every single comment to find out (and this may be way off topic), but am I the only person who read this and recognised the name Dr. Louis "Jolly" West? Wasn't this the same doctor who was involved in human testing, mind control, MKULTRA?

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» RE:your right Posted by: thealltheone
» RE: your right Posted by: GPFrank
Oedipus Rex
Posted by: edgar1 on Feb 5, 2009 3:22 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Same ol same ol.

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We Are Kinder to Dogs
Posted by: Lilly on Feb 5, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Last year my son and daughter-in-law had to put down their beloved dog because it was so ill it could no longer stand up even to eliminate, could not eat, and was in constant pain. The vet came to their house. They all sat on the kitchen floor and my weeping children held the dog in their arms as it was put to sleep. And when they told me about this, all I could think was that, when the time comes that their mother can no longer stand up or eat or live without pain, she will not be so lucky.

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» RE: We Are Kinder to Dogs Posted by: iolanthe
» RE: We Are Kinder to Dogs Posted by: rinthy
We all die, what's wrong with choosing one's final hour and place?
Posted by: socrates2 on Feb 5, 2009 3:55 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Soylent Green," E.G. Robinson's final scene, Beethoven's 6th...
Enough said.

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He should have killed jolly 50 years ago
Posted by: b.welldone on Feb 5, 2009 5:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
then Jolly's mind control victims would not have had to suffer through this monster's reign of terror at the demonic CIA

Good job, John. Just a little too late.

If you wuz Hitler's kid,
would you have whacked him?
Yuck yuck

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Pathology of controlling (someone else's) mind
Posted by: GPFrank on Feb 5, 2009 8:21 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'm staying off the subject of assisted suicide
except to say what I hear about hospitals no wonder people want to die in their own bed.
That Mr. West's father asked him to help in that fashion is suggestive that it is the same "jolly
West" of mind control ilk. I am reminded of my father with his strange ideas:he talked to my mother about "mind control and "universal minds" but she didn't have a clue as to what he was talking about. he tried different things on me at the age of six such as electric shocks and ducking me under water. When
not engaged in such behavior or an exploding temper he was very appealing, even with his speech problem. What this is leading to is that
such "extraordinary people" may be afflicted with what is now called "bipolar disorder" or manic affect or manic phase of mood swings, etc.
Relatively rare that makes it difficult to see the red flags. But a strong element is the methods used to satisfy the desire to manipulate people

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» pain can take over someone's mind Posted by: BlueBerry PickN
assisting in parents' suicides
Posted by: brianbradberry on Feb 6, 2009 4:10 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The parents sound like real self-centered, uncaring people, Being psychologists they should have known that binvolving him in their deaths could affect bhim negatively- So, why did they involve him? How much aswsistance is needed in taaking pills? The parents could have help[ed each other and done it together rather than involving him

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Alternet--some of the nastiest posters on the web
Posted by: zooeyhall on Feb 6, 2009 7:02 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This is what you get from Alternet posters to a decent comment: a smarmy put-down.

These people are supposed to be progressive but instead I have found on here some of the meanest, cruelest, intolerant people on the internet.

Well: posters nen and iloante, you certainly sound intelligent but I think that you need to learn that there is a difference between intelligence and humanity. And you are sorely lacking in the latter.

I'm just a farmer in Nebraska, and true-I may not have your intellectual cool. But I have some good common sense that you will never have, and in the exact area of this article. My dad, who farmed all his life, passed away two years ago at the age of 89. He had never gone beyond eight grade but he had more dignity and class then people with twice the education. I often asked him in his last year, while he was sufferning from a heart condition, what he wanted done if he got "really bad". His answer was unequivocal "I want to have everything done to keep me alive".

So, nen, I suppose you would have lectured the kindly old man on the insights of Godwin's law?

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» an "un-nasty" rebuttal Posted by: kww355
seniorita
Posted by: seniorita on Feb 6, 2009 6:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
in this country the doctors are not the only ones responsible for our not being able to decide when and how we wish to end our lives, the real culprit is the influence of religion by the majority for everybody -

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» RE: seniorita Posted by: MCahill
Google MKULTRA Louis West
Posted by: Joni50 on Feb 6, 2009 8:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just google it...

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» RE: Google MKULTRA Louis West Posted by: peacefullaim1
An article I've been years to read, with a margarita in hand.
Posted by: AmericanSpeaks2009 on Feb 9, 2009 7:46 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It has always been my hope, that diagnosed with a terminal disease I would be given the opportunity to sit on a tropical beach next to my loving husband, with a margarita in my hand, smiling and toasting the life I have just had. Never would I want to be in a hospital among strangers, with tubes, bells, moans and whistles. That is not how I want this amazing journey to end.

This article was cherished yesterday. I am so looking forward to the book. What a loving act.

In addition, I want to leave my two sons with money in the bank. Four of my girlfriends, in their 40s have gone into family debt, supporting a family member with Alzheimers, terminal cancer and senior age issues. This is not how I want my money to be spent. - Throw a party and move on. Life is short.

As a Catholic, it just hit me... The argument against the ridiculous "religious" reason for continue a life past dignity... We have a choice and I believe you have a moral and ethical right to help a loved ones die with dignity.

I thank John West for bringing this issue to light. His act was loving, beautiful and this IS an article I've been waiting years to read.

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This is the Man Who Allegedly Killed an Elephant with LSD
Posted by: Koondog on Feb 10, 2009 11:52 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Jolly West, as one of the posters above has written, was involved with a lot of super secret psychological warfare/mind control experiments during his life. In one of them, he supposedly gave LSD to an elephant and the elephant died. How much freaking LSD do you have to give to an elephant to kill the damn thing? Only Jolly West knows. That said, I was amazed to read his son's account of his father's demise. Extremely powerful writing. Whether Jolly West was a monster or a great man apparently made little difference in his final days. I wonder if he gave any thought about the futility of his mind control experiments or that unlucky elephant. Maybe this is in the book.

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