Home
Archive
Newsletters
Video
Blogs
Discuss
About
Search
Donate
Advertise

Rights and Liberties

Holy Cow: Top Dems Are Serious About Investigating Bush's Criminal Acts

By Jason Leopold, Consortium News. Posted January 26, 2009.


To the surprise of progressives and anger of the GOP, leading Dems support investigations.
Advertisement
Upcoming AlterNet stories on Digg

 

As President Barack Obama reverses some of ex-President George W. Bush’s most controversial “war on terror” policies, a consensus seems to be building among Democratic congressional leaders that further investigations are needed into Bush’s use of torture and other potential crimes.

On Wednesday – the first working day of the Obama administration – Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said he would support funding and staff for additional fact-finding by the Senate Armed Services Committee, which last month released a report tracing abuse of detainees at Guantanamo Bay and Abu Ghraib to Bush’s Feb. 7, 2002, decision to exclude terror suspects from Geneva Convention protections.

Senate Armed Services Committee Chairman Carl Levin, who issued that report, echoed Reid’s comments, saying “there needs to be an accounting of torture in this country.” Levin, D-Michigan, also said he intends to encourage the Justice Department and incoming Attorney General Eric Holder to investigate torture practices that took place while Bush was in office.

Two other key Democrats joined in this growing chorus of lawmakers saying that serious investigations should be conducted.

Sen. Sheldon Whitehouse, D-Rhode Island, a former federal prosecutor and a member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, said in a floor speech, “As the President looks forward and charts a new course, must someone not also look back, to take an accounting of where we are, what was done, and what must now be repaired.”

Democratic Majority Leader Steny Hoyer of Maryland told reporters: "Looking at what has been done is necessary.”

On Jan. 18, two days before Obama’s inauguration, House Speaker Nancy Pelosi expressed support for House Judiciary Committee Chairman John Conyers’s plan to create a blue-ribbon panel of outside experts to probe the “broad range” of policies pursued by the Bush administration “under claims of unreviewable war powers.”

In an interview with Fox News’ Chris Wallace, Pelosi specifically endorsed a probe into the politicization of the Justice Department, but didn’t spell out a position on Conyers's plan to examine the Bush administration’s torture and rendition policies, which could prove embarrassing to Pelosi and other Democratic leaders who were briefed by the CIA about these tactics.

Still, when Wallace cited Obama’s apparent unwillingness to investigate the Bush administration, Pelosi responded: “I think that we have to learn from the past, and we cannot let the politicizing of the — for example, the Justice Department, to go unreviewed. Past is prologue. We learn from it. And my views on the subject — I don't think that Mr. Obama and Mr. Conyers are that far apart.”

The emerging consensus among top congressional Democrats for some form of investigation into Bush’s controversial policies has surprised some progressives who had written off the leadership long ago for blocking impeachment hearings and other proposals for holding Bush and his subordinates accountable.

In 2006, for instance, Pelosi famously declared that “impeachment is off the table,” and prior to Election 2008, the Democratic leadership largely acquiesced to Bush’s demands for legislation that supported his “war on terror” policies, including a compromise bill granting legal immunity to telecommunications companies that assisted in Bush’s warrantless wiretaps.

A Changed Tone

Since the election – in which the Democrats increased their congressional majorities and won the White House – key Democrats have begun releasing more information about Bush’s abuses of power.


Digg!    Share on facebook   submit to reddit    Bookmark on Delicious   Stumble This  

See more stories tagged with: bush, democrats, torture, obama, white house, war crimes

Jason Leopold is the former Los Angeles bureau chief of Dow Jones Newswires where he spent two years covering the energy crisis and the Enron bankruptcy. He just finished writing a book about the crisis, due out in December through Rowman & Littlefield.

Liked this story? Get top stories in your inbox each week from Rights and Liberties! Sign up now »


Advertisement
Advertisement

 

Comments Turn comments off sitewide Give us feedback »
Comments closed.
The comments for this story have been closed. Thank you to everyone who participated.
View:
Let the investigation begin with Mr. Bush sitting in a classroon on September 11, 2001
Posted by: LeftWright on Jan 26, 2009 12:43 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
while the country is under "attack", clearly failing to defend the country and even more clearly violating his oath of office.

While they're at it they should start their investigation into Mr. Cheney by reviewing Norman Mineta's testimony before the 9/11 Commission.

They need to subpoena all Secret Service logs and communications records that pertain to both men.

This won't happen as many in the House and Senate committed treason when they allowed the names of foreign governments that were involved in 9/11 to be redacted from the Congressional reports and have been part of the on-going cover-up ever since.

They are all guilty of treason and need to be removed.

Perhaps if they start at the end, they will eventually work their way back to the precipitating events of 9/11/01.

Wouldn't hurt to re-examine the stolen elections of 2000 and 2004, either.

Let the investigations begin!

The truth shall set us free. Love is the only way forward.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» So Much to Do Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» Not Sure Posted by: ProgressiveManiac
» What if? . . . Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: What if? . . . Posted by: chance garden
» RE: What if? . . . Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: What if? . . . Posted by: chance garden
» RE: What if? . . . Posted by: dustdevil
» RE: What if? . . . Posted by: chance garden
» RE: What if? . . . Posted by: Crazy H
» Not so fast . . . Posted by: Scientz
» RE: Not so fast . . . Posted by: Crazy H
» Yes, obviously . . . Posted by: Scientz
» This is not true . . . Posted by: Scientz
» Do you know . . . Posted by: Scientz
» You don't understand, do you? Posted by: dustdevil
» Exactly. Posted by: Scientz
where to begin?!
Posted by: cbishopp on Jan 26, 2009 12:47 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It's a big onion to unravel, I hope they stay on course. It will take well over 4 years to get to the bottom of the Bush crimes!
Let's overturn the Patriot Act while we are at it. Let's talk about monetary reform or a reorganization of the Department of Defense to reduce spending! With all this talk about the financial crisis does anyone have plans to get some of the money back from incompetent companies in Iraq like Blackwater or Halliburton? That might help a little.
Does anyone have the ability to study what really happened to all that Iraqi oil?
The Bush Administration is directly responsible for the theft of trillions of dollars from the US in a scheme that reminds me of what Enron did to the state of California a few years ago.
Are we just going to sit here?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: where to begin?! Posted by: roli
» RE: where to begin?! Posted by: Crazy H
» RE: where to begin?! Yeah! Posted by: billslm
» ken lay... Posted by: undrgrndgirl
» RE: where to begin?! Posted by: avidAmerican
Holding Them Accountable
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jan 26, 2009 12:55 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The crimes committed by that administration are too numerous to even catalogue here. The problem with AlterNet is that they limit your response - otherwise I would.

Let's look at a couple of them though. The billions of dollars unaccounted for in Iraq? We're talking at least ten billion. Now ask yourselves, who the hell do you think has the clout to steal ten billion dollars?

They tried to imply to the clueless American people that Saddam was connected to Osama bin Laden. It was a lie and anyone paying attention knew it. As a result of that lie, some estimates put the death toll in Iraq at over one million men, women and little children. Are we going to let that crime go unpunished?

George W. Bush and Richard B. Cheney will die in federal prison. Count on it.

Smedley Butler

Tom Degan
Goshen, NY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Holding Them Accountable Posted by: bccmeteorites
» RE: Holding Them Accountable Posted by: progressiveview
» Full List of Bush Failures Posted by: Defenestrator
» Rod Posted by: Tom Degan
» Lets party! Posted by: 2thepoint
» RE: Holding Them Accountable Posted by: avidAmerican
"Former President George W. Bush"
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jan 26, 2009 12:58 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone pinch me.

Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The GOP Defends Christian Moral Values
Posted by: DrBrian on Jan 26, 2009 2:03 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The fact that Coryn and other Christian conservative grandees of the GOP have ardently supported a war of aggression, forced disappearance, torture and denial of due process says everything I need to know about them and their religion. Their record is shameful and their attempts to obstruct justice shameless.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Hear, hear! Posted by: redceres
Look Back In Rage
Posted by: RevolutionNet on Jan 26, 2009 2:29 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We can destroy the fascist cancer today or wait for it to kill us tomorrow.


FREE AMERICA

REVOLUTIONARY (DIRECT) DEMOCRACY

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Look Back In Rage Posted by: peacefullaim1
eringobragh!
Posted by: anna banana on Jan 26, 2009 2:36 AM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Once again the neo-progressives are flogging the idea that an investigation by the government of the government is not what it in fact is: a way to diffuse the culpability of thieves and murderers. President Putz and his coterie of killers will never bring war criminals to trial in this ountry. He'll be too busy 'reaching out' to them. Rave on, oh shits of state.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: eringobragh! Posted by: offplanet
» RE: eringobragh! Posted by: Sister_Lauren
» RE: eringobragh! Posted by: offplanet
» RE: eringobragh! Posted by: mythmorph
Go Dems!
Posted by: Perry Logan on Jan 26, 2009 3:15 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Thank you Democrats, for learning from history--and also for debunking the conspiracy folks. ;)

Even the softest-hearted Democrat must realize by now we'll have to nail the Republicans for good or they'll just keep coming back, like the killer in a slasher movie.

They've really got to get on this election-theft thing, or we'll have Jeb Bush as President in 2012. I know it sounds funny, but the nation could ill afford that.

I appreciate also the potential debunking of conspiracy types, who always say both parties are puppets of the same secret masters. Apparently, someone forgot to tell our Democratic leaders this.

My latest video, World of Ick

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Go Dems! Posted by: MyLeftFoot
» RE: Go Dems! Posted by: Elmowilcox
We Shall See, but.....
Posted by: shill on Jan 26, 2009 3:35 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
This could easily turn into a problem for the Democrats. The Republicans are quite good at yelling "Witch-hunt"(with the help of the mainstream media, which, regardless of what we are always hearing from the right, is FAR from Liberal and HAS BEEN far from Liberal after the conservatives bought it out following the Watergate debacle). Also I don't think that most of the American people would support it. Americans during war are historically more than willing to give up personal liberties in return for the government "protecting" them (often from "dangers" that the government itself has created.) Plus, many Americans believed, and still do, that the detainees at Gitmo were getting what they deserved. The Democrats are just looking around right now for a show of hands from the American people as to how popular an investigation into the many Bush/Cheney crimes would be in regards to getting themselves future votes. I don't anticipate a real, thorough investigation happening. Besides, many of the Democratic people who would be doing said investigations were there when all of this was going down. If they were so concerned with freedom and human rights, why didn't they speak up THEN? Once again, it is because Americans supported it then, and the Dems did not want to lose any more votes than they had to by appearing to be less "patriotic" than Bush, who was extremely popular back in those days, in case anyone has forgotten. If they pursue this, it is likely to come back to haunt them in the future. While it definitely SHOULD be pursued, don't count on it actually happening in anything more than a cosmetic way.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: We Shall See, but..... Posted by: Quannah
» RE: We Shall See, but..... Posted by: mythmorph
» RE: We Shall See, but..... Posted by: avidAmerican
Chris Hayne, registered charles linberg
Posted by: charles-linberg on Jan 26, 2009 4:08 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
We have just come out of a dark period of respect for the United States. Denieing what has taken place makes every one of us just as guilty of whatever. Let the World Court investigate and take appproiate action. We must keep the future honest and lawful.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Greater Peril
Posted by: Sparks56 on Jan 26, 2009 4:34 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
"Part of my concern, frankly, relates to some of his statements at the hearing in regard to torture and what his intentions are with regard to intelligence personnel who were operating in good faith based upon their understanding of what the law was," Cornyn said Wednesday.
"Yah! Vee vas oonly following oordahs!"
Their "understanding" was given to them by Gonzales and his jack-booted toadies.
One hopes that investigation into torture will shine a spotlight on the CIA Gulag; the dozens of secret "black site" prisons throughout the world.
One also hopes that the findings of an investigation will include the observation that not only are toture and extreme renditioning illegal and immoral, they don't work. They resulted in making terrorists organizations stronger, and put the nation in greater peril.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Greater Peril Posted by: avidAmerican
Here's
Posted by: philosimphy on Jan 26, 2009 4:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hoping that they nail 'em to the wall. I'd like to be proud of my country again.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

But hold on! It must be done patriotically!
Posted by: noir on Jan 26, 2009 5:12 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Not so fast, lefties. It is imperative that any such investigation of Bush, Cheney and co. be conducted in strict accord with the guidelines laid down in the Army Field Manual.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I agree
Posted by: larazzafilms on Jan 26, 2009 5:18 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I interviewed a contractor turned good in Turkey.
He confirms your info...There is so much that the public does not know. Alternet please do not edit this when "true knowledge" comes forth.
I have brought info forth in the past and it was very quickly deleted????why.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Let me tell you the future...
Posted by: Farasien on Jan 26, 2009 5:26 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Let's assume for a moment these congressmen, senators and other blowhard public officials are serious about wanting to 'investigate' bu$h's war crimes (they aren't). If they somehow manage to get an investigation started and IF Obama doesn't torpedo it (which he likely will) the investigators will be stymied by assholes in the former administration constantly invoking 'executive privalage' and pleading the fifth- and that's only if the former emperor didn't blanket pardon everybody involved- which though bu$h is obviously evil, he isn't THAT stupid-and likely did. So in the end of all this, you'll have a little show tribunal with a few angry-faced senators (with crossed fingers) tell the camera that the bu$h assholes did damage to the USA (no shit, sherlock) but our newly minted and banker-blessed savior will be fixing things... so let's not investigate any further.

When will people learn? Nobody in the government isn't owned by the Assholes, there is nobody really on your side unless you have a 6+ figure 'contribution' to give and nothing will REALLY change because pain is profit, and their vested interests lie in your blood being spilled in the streets.

Wake up.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Let ME tell you the future! Posted by: mythmorph
gathaiga
Posted by: gathaiga on Jan 26, 2009 5:30 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Smoke and mirrors! It is unlikely anything substantive would ever from an "investigation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» yes, let's give up. Posted by: Beck
Beware
Posted by: QCao009 on Jan 26, 2009 5:59 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Tom:

Be careful. Jeb's still in the shadows. We are not done with this family of criminals.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» like the Kennedys Posted by: SeattlePackedSnowandCollidedCars
» RE: like the Kennedys Posted by: JSquercia
» RE: like the Kennedys Posted by: 2thepoint
» Family of Criminals Posted by: 2thepoint
I'd like to see the entire onion of Bush prosecuted but...
Posted by: jreinhart1 on Jan 26, 2009 6:00 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I don't expect much either. The democrats have shown themselves to be spineless and even part of the problem when wiping out America's Bill of Rights. Dems would have to prosecute some of their own and that is not going to happen.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

"Former President George W. Bush"
Posted by: Tom Degan on Jan 26, 2009 6:10 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Someone pinch me.

Tom Degan

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush has admitted some of his crimes
Posted by: Adastra on Jan 26, 2009 6:21 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It seems to me that there need be no question whether Bush and his cronies have committed crimes. A number of policies that Bush has admitted in public and even boasted of are actual federal felonies and have been for decades at least. His practice of ignoring the FISA laws is already a felony and an offense against some of the traditional values of American jurisprudence.

The mess at Guantanamo and Abu Ghraib is particularly shocking. I have served in the US Army and I remember that the Uniform Code of Military Justice requires soldiers to refuse to obey any orders they know to be illegal and to report such orders to the Judge Advocate General's office. The UCMJ has always considered torture illegal and requires military personnel to adhere to the Geneva Conventions on treatment of prisoners. Obama has recently restored that requirement.

Any investigation must focus on how deep the rot goes, not on whether there have been crimes. The criminals have several times confessed in public. They can only offer the specious defense that they had good reasons for their crimes. But that defense will not pass in any court in the land. How far would a murderer get by telling the court that he had good reasons for murdering his neighbor? Murder is illegal; whatever the murderer's reasons were for his crime, it remains a crime.

And in his attempts to destroy our Constitution and the rule of law, Bush is clearly guilty of treason against the USA. We dare not leave his crimes and treasons unredressed as we move forward or they are likely to come back to bite us in the ass in future administrations. Only by making it clear that crimes and treason by the government will not be tolerated can we prevent such atrocities down the road.

With love under will,

Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Democrats Pushed Through Torture Legislation = Equally Guilty
Posted by: colleenwhalen on Jan 26, 2009 6:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
O.K. let's stop fantasizing about Democrat Party leaders doing diddly-squat to prosecute Bush/Cheney/Rove Crime Regime. 90% of legislation passed nearly unanimously by Congress to promote sex torture, psychological/physical torture, abolishing Constitution, illegal wire-tapping - was voted into law by Democrat politicans. The Patriot Act, Military Commissions Act of 2006 was pushed into law by Democrat politicians.

If the Dem's go after Republican law breakers, why not prosecute California Senator Dianne Feinstein - who while sitting as Senate Subcommitte Chair on Military Arms Appropriations - simultaneously owned Carpini Corporation with husband Richard Blum. Sen. Dianne Feinstein voted "yes" on giving her own arms merchant corporation no-bid government contracts - selling the Pentagon military hardware/WMD used in Afghanistan/Iraq war.

Felony conflict of interest.

Whenever asked about her ownership of Carpini Corporation - she said "that's my husband company, and I don't know a thing about it". She's been using that B.S. line for over 30 yrs. with numerous nefarious, felonious shady business deals she's done.

While we're at it - Bush and his family were main stockholders in Carlisle Group.
Co-owners were Saudi Royal Family. Carlisle Group sold WMD military hardware to Pentagon, & stuff was used to invade Afghanistan/Iraq. For a sitting President and sitting Senator to OWN WMD international arms merchants corporations while in office is a FELONY.

Alternet has a great big heaping dose of fairy tale child-like thinking if for one second you believe the Dem's will prosecute Republican lawbreakers.

The blood and money trail is on everyone's hands in Congress/Senate. Only a few politicans, perhaps less than 3 voted against the war in Iraq in the early days of illegal invasion. Patriot Act and other
crypto-fascist legislation legalizing sex torture was heartily approved by Democrat lawmakers.

When will Alter-Net GROW UP?

Obama is a Centrist Democrat - a "Corporate Democrat" and he isn't going to rattle anyone's cage, nor rock the boat.

Yup, he's shutting down Guantanamo in 1 yr, but most of the prisoners will get shipped to heinous prision in Afghanistan.

Obama's idea of ending Iraq War is to move it over to Afghanistan & send 100,000 of our soliders to fight the same war in a different nation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» leftbank Posted by: markw4786
NĂĽrenberg Trials
Posted by: jstuv on Jan 26, 2009 6:54 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Should the crimes of high treason, by the Bush/Cheney Administration, be overlooked, then these crimes of high treason will be repeated in future administrations. The Allies conducted the NĂĽrenberg Trials (in 1945 to 1949) for several reasons:
A) To make aware that these crimes were actually committed,
B) To examine HOW these crimes were able to be committed,
C) Who committed these crimes, and
D) To punish the criminals. Should the guilty not be punished, then their Criminal Acts would be absolved and could easily be repeated. There would not be any justice.
“The true administration of justice is the firmest pillar of good government.”

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: NĂĽrenberg Trials Posted by: mythmorph
» NĂĽremberg Trials Posted by: greenknight
Nice, its about time
Posted by: beandang on Jan 26, 2009 7:17 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But lets just see how far it goes. I susppose some are just making noise to get on the new leaders side. We all know how that goes in politics!

RT
Privacy Center

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Yeah Right.
Posted by: Nodarse on Jan 26, 2009 7:19 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I'll believe it when I see it.

Crooks can't be trusted to investigate themselves.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Yeah Right. Posted by: VZEQICVA
Allow the Press to Investigate.
Posted by: Afreind on Jan 26, 2009 7:32 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
President Obama can Declassify much of this Information, and allow the Press to investigate this. If this would happen, Law makers Could Deal with the Economy,and when their is A case to Prosecute, Our Attorney General can move the Case Forward.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

A HUGE CAN OF PEAS
Posted by: VZEQICVA on Jan 26, 2009 7:42 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
But worth it. We are not the country we were before Bush and it's important that we learn why that is. Bush bordered on being a dictator and he carried on with very little pulic outcry. Those of us who objected were called unpatriotic. I lived/worked in a world of people who thought he was god. They never saw anything wrong no matter what he did. He became everyone's spoiled little boy. The crimes committed will be numerous and not hard to list and some will be easily proved. But most importantly the American people will find out where they failed themselves and each other. There are countless reasons for opening this can of peas and they're all good. We can't allow this to become the way we are. ANNA

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

This is the best news I've had . . .
Posted by: Scientz on Jan 26, 2009 8:01 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
. . . since November 4th.

I hope they do charge them. If so, the Obama administration can finally put to rest all the inane accusations of a neo-corporatist cabal controlling both parties who aim to enslave mankind.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

But will Dems and Congress investigate themselves? They're as responsible as Bush, if not more so
Posted by: DCostello2 on Jan 26, 2009 8:05 AM   
Current rating: 4    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Everyone wants to investigate and prosecute Bush and CO and I'm all for it. However, much of Congress, especially the leadership and the committees KNEW about ALL of what Bush and Co were doing BECAUSE THEY WERE BRIEFED about it when it was occurring. These people are just as responsible, IF NOT MORE SO, because it was THEIR DUTY to stop it - their Oath of Office commits them to 'that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic'. Since much of what Bush was doing, especially the illegal wiretapping, was unconstitutional, Congress was sworn to put and end to it. Not only did the FAIL MISERABLY, they were complicit!! The House and Senate Intelligence Committees knew EVERYTHING about TORTURE and ILLEGAL WIRETAPPING when it was happening. If Bush and Co need investigation and prosecution, then so do Pelosi, Feinstien, Reid and a whole bunch of others. Think they'll get it??

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'll believe it when I see it.
Posted by: MaskedMarauder on Jan 26, 2009 8:09 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats were "for" impeachment investigations going into the 2006 elections. After the election it was "off the table." Again.

They'll always find some excuse not to investigate themselves. They know, as we know, and they don't want to draw attention to, the Dems were as complicit in all of the evils perpetrated by the Bush administration. Right down to the retroactive immunity to the Republican media companies involved in the FISA caper, which President Obama is favor of.

Don't look for justice or closure from this administration here. For all their rhetoric, they're still just mainstream American politicians, and all the dismal connotations that entails.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» Right, but . . . Posted by: Scientz
TALK TALK TALK TALK
Posted by: AMERICAN VETERAN on Jan 26, 2009 8:11 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
It IS time to WALK THE WALK!!

Stop the transparent rhetoric and BEGIN REAL legal actions!!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Allowing Obstructionists at this point is absurd!
Posted by: Brb007 on Jan 26, 2009 8:26 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
First of all, why is ANYONE permitting this Texas Republican from holding up the confirmation of a new appointee, based on "concerns that he will prosecute Bush Admin criminals?" That is a direct acknowledgement that this GOP member knows that crimes were committed and they fear the prosecution and assumed guilt enough to obstruct the process.

We, as a nation and as people who deserve and demand justice need to put a stop to this. Every American should be screaming at the top of their lungs for justice and for ALL criminals who have broken the laws of our land and Constitution, along with the laws of the International community, to be prosecuted and punished.

We, by now, should have had enough of the GOP apologists and obstructionists holding up progress that is needed and beneficial for our country and her people. This is ONE man, an elected person who was put into office by the PEOPLE of this country. Stand up and speak out and flood emails and phone lines and demand that this nonsense end! Anyone obstructing the repair and progress of America, to get back on her feet and heal from the crimes of this past 8 years or more, should be themselves brought up on charges and locked away!

This is OUR country! We can never heal nor move forward if we do not put an end to the very things that have caused the wounds and denigration. It is like a bad infection ... if you place a band aid on it, the infection festers and grows beneath the bandage. It must be excised for healing to occur! EXCISE these criminal NOW, so that we may once again be a nation of laws, integrity, guidance and leadership to the world!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I'll bet it's a bargaining chip
Posted by: punabear on Jan 26, 2009 8:50 AM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I won't be surprised if the repugs vote for Obama's stimulus package and then all this messy talk of investigation disappears.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush, Changed Laws, and Economic Downturn
Posted by: marizara on Jan 26, 2009 9:09 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
A very careful study should be made of all the changes in law that Bush instigated, who in government, business, or international business acted upon those changes, and what the results of those activities were. -- Could be that much of the "War on Terror" hoopla was a smoke-screen for some very fancy foot-work on the world economic stage, causing changes that have damaged and destabilized the economic systems of the entire planet. -- He did, at times, seem to be using Iraq as a hand puppet, something to focus our attention on, while he was very busy with other things.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Too bad that Pelosi is complicit
Posted by: FRoller on Jan 26, 2009 9:22 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Otherwise the investigation would have started a long, long time ago. Ms. 'Justice is off the table' is so deep in it, with Feinstein a close second, or is that Reid in second place? Each of these people were briefed on the warrantless wiretapping as well as the Iraq war. Instead of following Kucinich's lead they chose to go to the dark side and decided that they wouldn't fulfill their oath of office and protect the constitution. They can now be for investigating Bush and Co. all they want, it won't change my opinion of them.

Vote for more change in 2010! It's time to replace incumbents with true representatives of this nation.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

TREASON -
Posted by: Solar Wind on Jan 26, 2009 10:27 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think it has been proven or can be that BushCo committed treason - the highest crime. Lying to the American people to start a war in a sovereign nation that had nothing to do with 9/11 for starts. And then there is the torture and the trillions stolen by Wall Street (which the taxpayers are still funding)and Halliburton et al while the average American continues to lose homes, jobs, and worst of all hope.

If we don't cleanse ourselves our nation will continue to have a psychic layer of shame, anger, slime, corruption and grief to deal with. Plus, as other posters have noted, it WILL happen again if no one is held accountable. I'm talking about the Addington's and the Wolfowitz's (sic) and the Kristol's and all the idiot ideologues who got us into this mess and continue to profit.

I mean, really - BASTA - ENOUGH! Time for those who caused so much damage around the world to pay the price. Including Dems if they are also guilty.

If these crimes are not investigated I fear our country will not truly really be able to move forward. We must have justice - we must see justice DONE

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Aurora
Posted by: rtq on Jan 26, 2009 10:29 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
While everyone argues and disputes the left right paradigm this is what REALLY MATTERS:
http://video.google.com/videoplay ...

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

The rethugs unmasked
Posted by: willymack on Jan 26, 2009 10:44 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The criminal cabal calling themselves republicans have shown their true colors. Their transparent efforts to block anything resembling justice for the bush regime by stalling the Attorney General confirmation and their revolting demand that Mr. Holder promise NOT to go after the former regime for torture, show them for the criminals they are. I think it's time to decertify this nest of vipers and toss them out with the rest of the trash.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Class action suit?
Posted by: Sushi on Jan 26, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Hey, some legal beagle tell me if it would be possible for We the People to prosecute BushCo for crimes against OUR Constitution and against our laws that have damaged us?

Sushi
"Defend the Constitution from all enemies, foreign and elected! "

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

NOW they want to investigate?
Posted by: lynmarenjensen on Jan 26, 2009 10:57 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The Democrats have had years to investigate, and what we've heard during that time alternates between "Impeachment is not on the table" and "We're conducting investigations." The "investigations" line is almost as old as the "impeachment is not on the table" one. (By the way, Howard Dean is every bit as responsible for the Democratic leadership's refusal to impeach as is Ms. Pelosi, so don't let him off easy, either.)
It's nice, very nice, that the Democrats are saying, "We'll conduct investigations" but remember that's what Rep. Waxman did--and did nothing with the investigations he conducted. This is probably the line the leadership is using to keep us all voting Democratic in the next cycle, when what will really be news is if anything happens beyond "investigations."
They've had a majority for two years and NOW they're all hot to conduct investigations? Thousands of American war dead, countless innocents killed and tortured over the past seven years, countless violations of international law and human rights, and NOW they want to investigate? With no hint of what they'll do once thay actually conduct all these investigations? I don't know if this goes under the headline, "Never Too Late to Do The Right Thing" or "It's a Little Too Late to Do The Right Thing Now."

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: NOW they want to investigate? Posted by: avidAmerican
» RE: NOW they want to investigate? Posted by: lynmarenjensen
And in other news...
Posted by: Crazy H on Jan 26, 2009 11:02 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
In an effort to derail the nomination of Attorney General-designate Eric Holder, it seems Senate Republicans are now resorting to extortion. They'll confirm Holder if he promises not to prosecute any Bush Administration officials for any involvement in acts of torture, according to Senator Sheldon Whitehouse(D-RI).

but... but... but... they kept telling us it wasn't illegal in the first place. I'm so confused.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

If We Won't Prosecute, The Euros Are Going To Prosecute
Posted by: rgoalierob on Jan 26, 2009 11:27 AM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I think there is a TRUE Patriotic interest on Democrats and Middle-Of-The-Road Republicans to Prosecute at least the underlings of the Bush Mafia.
Don't think the underlings won't want to snitch on their bosses, either.
Then there's the legal work in Europe. I think Bush et. al. are screwed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

ba
Posted by: mnstra on Jan 26, 2009 12:17 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Forger it. Nothing will be done as long as Nancy is in power.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Personally
Posted by: wormfarmer on Jan 26, 2009 1:01 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I would like to see Bush, Cheney, and ALL of the cronies tried by either the world court, or an Iraqi court, NOT a U.S. court. Stripping them naked and dropping them in the middle of Baghdad with the American peoples blessing is inappropriate? I think that trying to prosecute the criminals here would be pissing in the wind. Shouldn’t we be concentrating on restoring the democratic values and processes lost to political zealots voted, (ha, ha), into positions of power over the last fifty or sixty
years? That would be change, I hope that a democratic, (government by, for, and of), the
PEOPLE will be awakened in this administration. Change we can believe in? We'll see....

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Don't Do That To Me With Your Headline
Posted by: lapdogs on Jan 26, 2009 1:06 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Don't you know that a person with my heart condition can have a Fred Sanford "Elizabeth, I'm Coming" moment when I least expect it?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Truth and Reconciliation!
Posted by: nc green on Jan 26, 2009 1:21 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
If we want to investigate without it becoming a "partisan witch hunt," give 'em immunity for truthful testimony. We should want the truth more than we want punishment.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: Truth and Reconciliation! Posted by: willymack
» RE: Truth and Reconciliation! Posted by: Free Spirit
What a humongous waste of time!
Posted by: joe2171 on Jan 26, 2009 2:35 PM   
Current rating: 2    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I cannot belive that these idiots think that anything is going to come of this ridiculous partisan hate mongering. With the economy in the shape it's in, with the imminent collapse of wall street and virtually every major banking corporation in America, these fools are going to waste huge amounts of time and money in a blatant political vendetta. When what they should really be doing is anything they can to create an atmosphere of trust with those on the other side of the aisle to be able to actually get things done to help out the people that put them there, us!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: What a humongous waste of time! Posted by: wrinklemomma
Reinvestigate 911
Posted by: D. Shenary on Jan 26, 2009 3:02 PM   
Current rating: 3    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Just how far will the top Dems really care to go in investigating the Bush Crime Family? Do they really have the courage to promote an honest investigation of 911? This I doubt.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» RE: einvestigate 911 Posted by: willymack
Good Faith?
Posted by: Archie1954 on Jan 26, 2009 11:56 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Coryn should consider what he has done to the English language by using the term "good faith" in the same sentence as commiting war crimes. Maybe to someone like him you can practice torture in good faith but to the rest of us it doesn't compute.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Write a letter!
Posted by: the baron on Jan 26, 2009 3:28 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Instead of being sarcastic smart asses on this page how about you all write a damn letter. I did and I just drafted a second one. Which is what I plan to do every week after Obama's weekly address.

The first letter covered this very issue, also his being the first black President will mean nothing if he does not act on this issue.

The second letter was about the army field manual guide lines, recovery.gov/stimulus, off shore oil drilling , and selling of National Park lands to energy companies/alternative energy.

Write to him, he says he wants to be transparent well call him on it. To ensure that he is being so.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

» first letter Posted by: the baron
» first con't Posted by: the baron
» first con't 2 Posted by: the baron
» first 3 Posted by: the baron
All Democrats should show they have honor
Posted by: gandolfshep on Jan 26, 2009 4:36 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush and Company should be investigated for all crimes including, war crimes, spying on American citizens, treason, and a list too long to mention here.

Each individual should have their assets frozen while the investigation is in progress and if convicted all assets confiscated.

But this needs to be done in a court of law by unbiased judges, if you can find one. I guess the first step would be to fire all Judges appointed by Bush. I just don't trust the Democrats to administer the appropriate sentence for the crimes these people planned and committed.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Bush/Cheney belong behind bards
Posted by: mikacct on Jan 26, 2009 5:02 PM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
These guys need to do serious jail time.

http://nsyfforum.com/index.php

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Holy Cow! but the content of this article's evidence does not convince!
Posted by: logansafi on Jan 26, 2009 8:36 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
There just is no evidence in this article that should one to reach the conclusion of 'Holy Cow: Top Dems Are Serious About Investigating Bush's Criminal Acts' in any logical manner.

Have they released those tortured yet? Have they prosecuted any torture architects yet? Last I heard Obama was heading yet more troops to Afghanistan where he can pick up another big shit load of detainee POWs? Did I miss something here?

And has anybody said anything about reclassifying those held to be tortured, as POWs? That's what they are you know? Maybe Americans don't know though? Go figure?

And has Obama said anything yet about ending torture in America's prisons, like say in the Phoenix area, Louisiana, Texas, or Florida.... or California, New Mexico, and Colorado... and like in all 50 of the states? No? Well why not?

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Our Economy is in the Shitter
Posted by: dockboy on Jan 26, 2009 9:45 PM   
Current rating: 1    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
And all you guys can think of is "how can we put Bush in jail?". You're too narrow-minded and bent on revenge for your own good.

Gat a life.
Get a job.
Get real.

If you can't do these three things, then just go to hell.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Revenge? A Waste of Time and Resources???
Posted by: Brb007 on Jan 27, 2009 7:37 AM   
Current rating: 5    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
For those saying this is revenge and pointless ... Revenge has nothing to do with this AND our economy is in the chitter, to quote another poster, because of Bush and his criminal profiteers. None of us have even SEEN the true depth of our economic woes yet ... because they have not been released for us to see. Speaking of our military alone, the figures have been fudged and suppressed so that we could NOT see the true damage. None of the totals that we have seen even include the cost of returning our soldiers and our equipment. None of the figures include the expense, in the trillions, to replace vital equipment for our military, which has been destroyed or lost in Iraq and Afghanistan ... and that is just military expense. We have no idea as to what else has been covered up and suppressed from the public and media.

Anyone believing that this is a revenge issue is in some serious denial. Allowing such overt crimes against America, the world and humanity are serious crimes and cannot be permitted to go unpunished. That would give license to any other rogue administration to follow the actions of Bush and Co. and push them a little further with the next attempt and we simply cannot allow nor afford that. We are lucky we are not a third world country yet, we are close but not quite. Another 4 years of these criminals and we would be.

I, for one, am SO tired of the percentage of Americans, minimal as it may be, crying about a "waste of time" and a "waste of resources" to pursue investigations and action against ALL illegal occurrences and those who perpetrated them this past eight years, whomever was involved and responsible.

Look around you. Your friends, family and coworkers are starving and losing their homes and jobs, their life's savings, their retirements and their ability to live and thrive. Look around you, our country has been drained to a mere shell of what she once was, both in our own eyes and in the eyes of a waiting world who expects us to govern ourselves like we PROFESS to have a right to govern other sovereignties. Look around you, our Constitution that is over 230 years old and has kept us free and safe all of that time, has been shredded and abused and ignored ... the POTUS oath and responsiblity is to PROTECT and defend the Constitution, not call it and treat it like a "goda*ned piece of paper!

What arrogant, self absorbed people we are to believe that we have a right to cherry pick justice, choose whether to prosecute some criminals, while we allow others to go free and allow the "have mores" to get away with whatever they choose to perpetrate on America and her people,including a total draining and raping of our very financial infrastructure ... as well as what Bush has done to other people of the world.

There is NO question. It is NOT a waste of time. It is NOT a waste of resources. It IS a moral and ethical and legal obligation and it IS exactly what we need in order to move forward and heal this nation and right all of the wrongs that have been done! If we allow this to go unpunished, other organizations in Europe and Asia WILL pursue it and I can assure you ... if they are forced to do our duty of policing ourselves and our country, of holding to the letter of the law for our own citizens, when we have boasted the right to police other nations, we will lose forever the tiny bit of moral standing and alliance that we have with the rest of the world. No man is an island and NO country can act unilaterally and illegally, against other nations and believe that they hold no accountability. We owe these investigations to ourselve AND to the rest of the world and we must do it NOW!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Start with the top tier personnel
Posted by: FRoller on Jan 27, 2009 8:11 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Including Bush and Cheney. There is a chain of command. Many of them 'retired' early and wrote books. Start the hearings with the very top and continue working down the chain of command. It really isn't a lot of people plus you can tell who is guilty by the number of lawyers in their defense box. So you can focus, not on them but on the chain of command below those people. Someone out there has some info they want to talk about maybe even write a book about once it's all done.

I think this was an excellent post and right on the money. If we don't do it then future presidents will use this as a way to do even more evil. Maybe commission lists of those who aren't going to church, or lists of those who write sensible posts. Render those people to some country, never to be seen again.

My bumper sticker says:
Bush/Cheney
Prison '09
Pelosi & Reid Too!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

I agree that a trial might wreck the U.S......
Posted by: tap17x on Jan 28, 2009 2:14 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
.....so someone please just shoot the Bushie cocksuckers.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

promises..promises
Posted by: pacto on Jan 28, 2009 2:25 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
I wont hold my breath. that single act, bush and his goonies behind bars would stimulate the USA in a flash.lets hope they go forward with the charges of murder and treason.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Nancy Peloski should be there too
Posted by: hilly7 on Jan 28, 2009 3:59 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Bush's bitch #2 Nancy Peloski should be tried along side of the rest. But as usualy, a lot of oral sex but no climax.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Irrelevancies
Posted by: Adastra on Jan 28, 2009 5:42 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The arguments against investigation of the crimes and prosecution of the guilty are bogus. There is no reason to let a criminal traitor to this nation leave office "under a cloud" and suffer nothing more official. And the doubts that it will ever happen, the claims that the Democrats will never investigate themselves are a smokescreen. It is not up to either party to push the investigations; it is up to the citizens to insist on investigation of this mess and to make it known that failure on the part of any politician in high office to do his duty to his oath of office will greatly reduce his chances of re-election.

To leave these crimes that shame our nation uncorrected should be the concern of every American. Politicians will by nature be no more honest or honorable than we, the people require them to be--and then only if we watch them carefully and remind them often that they are under our observation and will be held accountable. This should not be thought of as revenge against the guilty but as a demand for honest government, a feature horribly lacking in the previous administration.

Or do we not care if our country is never trusted again by anyone in the world?

With love under will,

Bob, Adastra,
The Wizzard of Jacksonville

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Ill believe it when I see it
Posted by: lil ole me on Jan 28, 2009 8:19 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
Talk is cheap and we all know that politicians have a price.

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

Waterboarding is NOT "Simulated" Drowning!
Posted by: ATH on Jan 29, 2009 3:24 PM   
Current rating: Not yet rated    [1 = poor; 5 = excellent]
The author wrote this:
"Last week, at his confirmation hearing before the Senate Judiciary Committee, Holder was asked about the practice of waterboarding, a form of simulated drowning that the Bush administration has acknowledged using against three terror suspects."

It was the Bush regime who, I believe, called waterboarding a form of "simulated" drowning, and since then, unfortunately, everybody seems to accept that definition without thinking twice.
According to my Oxford Modern English Dictionary, to "simulate" means to: pretend to be, have, or feel, or to imitate the conditions of a real state."

Waterboarding is, therefore, not simulated drowning. Water is actually entering the person's lungs. They feel like they're drowning because they ARE. Ask anyone who has experienced it and ask them if it felt real or simulated. A simulated drowning would be like tricking the mind, through chemicals or electric shock to certain parts of the brain, to make a person feel like they were drowning. That would be simulated...like a video game is a simulated war, or car race, etc. It feels like it's happening, but it's really not...

Well, waterboarding is really happening and describing it as simulated drowning makes it sound far less dangerous and cruel than what it actually is. So, please, people, stop uing this term! Waterboarding could, at best, be described as controlled drowning. Water does enter the lungs, the person feels like they're drowning because they really are; the difference is that the person performing this torture stops before so much water enters the lungs that the person dies. They stop, and let the person cough the water out of his lungs..sometimes they have to perform resusitation (CPR)..and sometimes the person dies. This could never happen in a simulation.

Here's another interesting factoid: "enhanced interrogation" was the exact same phrase Hitler used to call his torture techniques!
Also, Bush's grandfather, Prescott Bush, supplied the Nazis with steel from his company during the War! And John D. Rockefeller supplied the Nazis with a much needed fuel additive. And, of course, international bankers funded both sides of the war. IBM got its start in Nazi Germany. Its first computers used punch cards to keep track of the Jews, and where they were headed--some to work camps, some to the ovens.

And now, Israel has created its own giant concentration camp called Palestine, and it shoots these people, of whom over 50% are children under 14, like fish in a barrel, dropping white phosphorus on them, a chemical that sticks like tar and burns all the way to the bone...I've seen some of the pictures, and if there is a hell, this is what it must look like...Likewise, if there is a hell, I have no doubt that the Israelis which have done this have committed unforgivable sins, as well as having broken International law and committed war crimes and crimes against humanity--with American made weapons. That's America's #1 export: WMDs!!! That's why they were so sure there were WMDs in Iraq--we knew we had sold them to Hussein. Apparently, he used them up killing people, back when he was committing all these crimes, but we didn't care, because he was still "our boy" back then!

[« Reply to this comment] [Post a new comment »] [Rate this comment: 1 - 2 - 3 - 4 - 5]

  • AlterNetYour turn

Support AlterNet
Do you value the information you're getting from AlterNet? Please show your support with a tax-deductible donation.


Feedback
Tell us how we're doing.

Advertisement
Advertisement